Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:54 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Who would attack and how? What software and hardware would be shut down by a cyber attack anyway? There have been reports of exploits in the power grid. I happen to be very fond of electricity, The phone system has been vulnerable to attacks in the distant past. I hope air traffic control is off the net. The film _Live Free and Die Hard_ had the terrorists messing with internet controlled systems. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
Isn't that just handing victory to the attacker? Isn't the attacker trying to limit Internet access so that commerce and banking shut down? I can't do my banking because my Internet access is denied during an emergency. Retailers lose all their business because their potential customers can't read the advertising? Fred Holmes At 10:36 AM 2/25/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds lIke a case could be made not to implement any expansion of internet access, and even to curtail, limit or eliminate a lot of what already exists. I'd have to think that were any evidence to come to light that a cyber attack was occurring, that internet access would be shut down for all but necessary systems. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: Isn't that just handing victory to the attacker? Isn't the attacker trying to limit Internet access so that commerce and banking shut down? I can't do my banking because my Internet access is denied during an emergency. Retailers lose all their business because their potential customers can't read the advertising? I am most certainly not advocating anything such as limiting internet expansion or the ability to access it. There could be calls from some quarters to limit access to the system if it were to come under attack and if that attack would be aided by the internet remaining wide open. Who knows what kind of cyber attack could be launched, what it would entail or how it would be implemented? Hey, just yesterday I was informed by the credit card fraud squad that my card had been compromised and that a bunch of stuff related to accessories for BMW automobiles had been purchased with my card number. That could only have happened through my use of that card on the internet as that was the one and only manner in which I had ever used that particular card. Likely some hack into the files of an on-line retailer. I had not used that card in over six months and it was all paid off as well. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
At 08:12 AM 2/26/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, just yesterday I was informed by the credit card fraud squad that my card had been compromised and that a bunch of stuff related to accessories for BMW automobiles had been purchased with my card number. That could only have happened through my use of that card on the internet as that was the one and only manner in which I had ever used that particular card. Likely some hack into the files of an on-line retailer. I had not used that card in over six months and it was all paid off as well. Steve Welcome to the club, Steve. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Feb 26, 2010, at 8:12 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, just yesterday I was informed by the credit card fraud squad that my card had been compromised and that a bunch of stuff related to accessories for BMW automobiles had been purchased with my card number. That could only have happened through my use of that card on the internet as that was the one and only manner in which I had ever used that particular card. We are extremely vulnerable because the Feds do not police the Internet. They are too busy eating donuts to go after botnets and spammers. So when something really bad happens they will not have the skills necessary to figure out what is happening and do something about it. If they can't track down and arrest a crook who is taking credit card orders for fraudulent goods, how can we expect them to find somebody who is making an active effort to hide? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Feb 25, 2010, at 11:54 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Why shut it down? Ramping up is better. Can you really shut down everything without something drastic and stupid like an EMP? And that wouldn't shut down those who are secure and off grid. There are too many short cuts and back doors. Expand everything. Are you likely to be attacked? That's right. The proven way to stand up to a botnet is to have enough capacity to ride it through. However I would feel a heck of a lot more secure if the R in CERT meant respond like the fire department and not respond by writing a memo. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:06 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: U.S. would lose a cyber war, former intell chief warns -- Government Computer News http://gcn.com/articles/2010/02/24/web-mcconnell-cyber-threat.aspx?s=gcndaily_250210 “We’re not going to do what we need to do; we’re going to have a catastrophic event [and] the government’s role is going to change dramatically, and then we’re going to go to a new infrastructure,” McConnell, a retired Navy vice admiral, predicted. Sounds lIke a case could be made not to implement any expansion of internet access, and even to curtail, limit or eliminate a lot of what already exists. I'd have to think that were any evidence to come to light that a cyber attack was occurring, that internet access would be shut down for all but necessary systems. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Feb 25, 2010, at 10:36 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds lIke a case could be made not to implement any expansion of internet access, and even to curtail, limit or eliminate a lot of what already exists. I'd have to think that were any evidence to come to light that a cyber attack was occurring, that internet access would be shut down for all but necessary systems. Sound's like today's conservative mantra: don't fix healthcare, dismantle it. So I suppose a true conservative would eschew TCP/IP for good old reliable smoke signals. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:56 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Sound's like today's conservative mantra: don't fix healthcare, dismantle it. So I suppose a true conservative would eschew TCP/IP for good old reliable smoke signals. What I was saying is that were our national internet infrastructure to be attacked, our authorities would likely treat that as they would likely treat a biological attack through quarantining. Some might also say that an all-encompassing internet, all of our eggs in one basket, could be more likely to cause a major problem were it to be attacked as opposed to a system that is smaller and more limited in scope. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Time for a Nation Defense Internet Infrastructure Project?
Sounds lIke a case could be made not to implement any expansion of internet access, and even to curtail, limit or eliminate a lot of what already exists. I'd have to think that were any evidence to come to light that a cyber attack was occurring, that internet access would be shut down for all but necessary systems. Sound's like today's conservative mantra: don't fix healthcare, dismantle it. So I suppose a true conservative would eschew TCP/IP for good old reliable smoke signals. Why shut it down? Ramping up is better. Can you really shut down everything without something drastic and stupid like an EMP? And that wouldn't shut down those who are secure and off grid. There are too many short cuts and back doors. Expand everything. Are you likely to be attacked? Who would attack and how? What software and hardware would be shut down by a cyber attack anyway? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
