Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

[cheryl lyttle via CoTyroneList]

I want to thank all of you for what you do!
Cheryl Lyttle
Ottawa Canada
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From: CoTyroneList  on behalf of 
elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:28:02 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: elwyn soutter 
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

Katie,



Can I say thank you. 3 or 4 other folk on the board have also e-mailed me
privately to express similar sentiments. I am touched.



All I would say is that when I see a query that I think contains issues of
wider interest to other members of this board, I try to answer in a way
that will help them as well as the person who made the original enquiry.
So, for example, with the Morrison enquiry, the underlying issue was where
did my ancestors come from and when and how did they arrive in Ireland? I
doubt we will ever answer that specific enquiry fully, but there are
sources that suggest some probable answers.



I am not a genealogical expert. I am a retired civil servant with a
background in gathering and analyzing information. I do genealogy for fun
to keep my brain active. I live  near Belfast and do some research for
specific families but I haven’t done any academic genealogical research.
However I have been very lucky to have attended dozens of lectures by PRONI
experts and folk like Dr William Roulston (whose book on Researching
Scots-Irish ancestors no serious researcher in Tyrone should be without).  I
have had the privilege of working with him on various little projects and
have been able to pick his brains from time to time. I also rely heavily on
various academic books on Ulster in the 1600s and 1700s (which I usually
refer to in any response I give). Robinson’s Plantation of Ulster is one
example.



Many regular themes come up in posts on this board about how our ancestors
lived, what their lives were like, what they ate, what they wore, why they
came to Ireland (obviously not all are Plantation families but a huge
proportion of Tyrone families are), where they came from, why they left and
so on.  If your ancestor arrived in Ireland in the 1600s it will be rare to
answer that definitively – the records just don’t exist - but there are
many sources that give huge amounts of general information which I think
folk on this board might find interesting. So I feed it in, where I think
appropriate. Hope it works.







Elwyn







On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 18:02, Katie Green via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:

> I’d like to add my thanks for this very informative lesson.
>
> Katie Green in Plain, WI, USA
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

[elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList]

Katie,



Can I say thank you. 3 or 4 other folk on the board have also e-mailed me
privately to express similar sentiments. I am touched.



All I would say is that when I see a query that I think contains issues of
wider interest to other members of this board, I try to answer in a way
that will help them as well as the person who made the original enquiry.
So, for example, with the Morrison enquiry, the underlying issue was where
did my ancestors come from and when and how did they arrive in Ireland? I
doubt we will ever answer that specific enquiry fully, but there are
sources that suggest some probable answers.



I am not a genealogical expert. I am a retired civil servant with a
background in gathering and analyzing information. I do genealogy for fun
to keep my brain active. I live  near Belfast and do some research for
specific families but I haven’t done any academic genealogical research.
However I have been very lucky to have attended dozens of lectures by PRONI
experts and folk like Dr William Roulston (whose book on Researching
Scots-Irish ancestors no serious researcher in Tyrone should be without).  I
have had the privilege of working with him on various little projects and
have been able to pick his brains from time to time. I also rely heavily on
various academic books on Ulster in the 1600s and 1700s (which I usually
refer to in any response I give). Robinson’s Plantation of Ulster is one
example.



Many regular themes come up in posts on this board about how our ancestors
lived, what their lives were like, what they ate, what they wore, why they
came to Ireland (obviously not all are Plantation families but a huge
proportion of Tyrone families are), where they came from, why they left and
so on.  If your ancestor arrived in Ireland in the 1600s it will be rare to
answer that definitively – the records just don’t exist - but there are
many sources that give huge amounts of general information which I think
folk on this board might find interesting. So I feed it in, where I think
appropriate. Hope it works.







Elwyn







On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 18:02, Katie Green via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:

> I’d like to add my thanks for this very informative lesson.
>
> Katie Green in Plain, WI, USA
> ___
> CoTyroneList Mailing List
> Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
> Change Your Preferences:
> http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
> Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
>
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[CoTyroneMailingList] Elwyn's tutorial

[Katie Green via CoTyroneList]

I’d like to add my thanks for this very informative lesson.

Katie Green in Plain, WI, USA
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Clonfeacle Parish, Cos. Tyrone & Armagh, Northern Ireland: in 1837 Lewis' Topographical Dictionary of Ireland

[Len Swindley via CoTyroneList]

Good to hear from you Dorothy and many thanks for your message; feedback is 
always appreciated and encouraging.

Len

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 5:45 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Cc: Dorothy Gaunt
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - 
Clonfeacle Parish, Cos. Tyrone & Armagh, Northern Ireland: in 1837 Lewis' 
Topographical Dictionary of Ireland

Thank you Len for all your work, but - for me - especially for this one.
Dorothy Gaunt

Sent from my iPad

> On 11/06/2020, at 9:43 PM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
>
> Clonfeacle Parish, Cos. Tyrone & Armagh, Northern Ireland: in 1837Lewis'
> Topographical Dictionary of Ireland
> 
>
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
>
> Jim McKane
> Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

[Len Swindley via CoTyroneList]

Wow! Many thanks to Elwyn for his insights and great history lesson responding 
to the query relating to Morrisons in Kilskeery parish within the context of 
the Plantation and the possibility of locating families at  that time. 
Wonderful to read the lengthy references and extracts from a number of 
publications; this must have taken quite some time and consideration. Many 
thanks, Elwyn,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 11:22 AM
To: James McKane
Cc: elwyn soutter; CoTyroneIreland.com 
Mailing List
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

Rick,



Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo” meaning “cow land.” According
to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”, a ballyboe was “A small
Irish land division which, before the plantation, represented the territory
within which several families worked the land. Although the real area of
the ballyboe varied greatly with the quality of the land, it was assumed by
the plantation surveyors to contain 60 acres of profitable land in most
areas of north-west Ulster. Many modern townlands have evolved from these
ballyboes.”



Not all land in Ireland was requisitioned by the Crown at the time of the
Plantation. At least a third remained in the hands of local Irish
landlords, normally provided they agreed to be loyal to the Crown.  An
obvious example would be the Maguires who had lands in Fermanagh. Chunks of
land were declared forfeit following the 1641 uprising and
reallocated.  Details
in the Down survey:



http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/down-survey-maps.php



Robinson spends some time discussing the origins of settler names in
Tyrone, and to what extent Scottish undertakers had Scots tenants, and
English undertakers had English tenants. The implication being that they
originated in their landlords respective estates. However there was
evidently a lot of mixing. For example on p122 he says:



The evidence of Scots settling outside their allocated baronies of Strabane
and Mountjoy is supplemented by a statement of Lord Audley’s in 1614 when
he claimed that his estate of Finagh and Rarone in Omagh barony had as many
Scots as English in it.



Although there is considerable degree of continuity between 1630 and 1666
in the distributional pattern of British settlement, and indeed in the
persistence of English and Scottish localities, the actual surnames on most
estates did change dramatically. This turnover of personnel cannot be
attributed simply to the ravages of the 1641 rebellion, for comparable
changes can be observed between 1622 and 1630. A high degree of tenant
mobility is a striking characteristic of plantation settlement, despite the
continuity of settlement patterns.”



He goes on to discuss colonial spread. “In 1622 the percentage of Scots on
any Tyrone estate was closely related to whether or not the estate was
Scottish owned, and only marginally related to the physical distance from
Londonderry as the natural entry point for Scottish settlers. However by
1630 the gap between the statistical significance of these two factors had
narrowed, and by 1666 it was the distance from Londonderry which was most
significant. This supports the model of colonization outlined above,
whereby the process of direct plantation, with subsequent internal
migration operated simultaneously with that of colonial spread. Furthermore
the contention that colonial spread became relatively more important than
direct plantation with time is also supported.”



(This continues for pages but you will hopefully get the general drift.  Many
settlers in Tyrone and particularly the Scots arrived via Londonderry and
moved across Tyrone. Some stayed put and some moved about. After 40 years
colonial spread meant that a significant percentage were no longer in the
place where they first settled).



Loughterush is in the barony of Omagh East. For me, the absence of
Morrisons in that part of Tyrone in the Muster Rolls (ie c 1630) strongly
suggests your ancestors must have there arrived after that.  There’s only 1
Morison in Tyrone in the Muster Rolls, a Robert Morsion in Strabane barony.
Perhaps your family were connected to him and moved south to Loughterush.
So colonial spread?



Your question is whether Audley brought the Morisons over? I doubt he
brought them over himself because he appears to have acquired those lands
from his uncle, Lord Castlehaven who was the original Undertaker. The
family were from Petersfield in Hampshire.  Morison is not a name
particularly common in that part of England so that would make me doubt
they were Castlehaven tenants in England. But I might be wrong.







Elwyn

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 01:21, James McKane  wrote:

> A search 

[CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Born Co. Tyrone; Buried Ontario, Canada - added Rev, John Irwin

[Jim McKane via CoTyroneList]

Born Co. Tyrone; Buried Ontario, Canada - added Rev, John Irwin


Thanks to Annie Crenshaw for another addition to CTI!


Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
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