Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Thank you Elwyn.  Absolutely fascinating.
Dorothy 

Sent from my iPad

> On 22/06/2020, at 5:56 AM, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Marion,
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that a full answer to your interesting question could fill a
> hundred pages.
> 
> 
> 
> One source you might want to investigate is: “The Population of Ireland
> 1750 – 1845” by KH Connell, published in Oxford 1950. One of the many
> causes of the problems that plagued Ireland in the 1800s was the fact that
> there had been a massive population explosion. It went up from 3 million in
> 1741 to 8 million in 1841. (It’s only 6 million today).  No-one is entirely
> certain why. A reduction in neo-natal death rates was a factor. Connell
> also speculates that they started to marry younger and that consequently
> the reproductive rate ( R ) increased significantly. And as we all know
> these days, if the R number rises significantly you can see an exponential
> increase in whatever you are studying. In this case, children.
> 
> 
> 
> The book therefore spends quite a bit of time discussing the customs
> surrounding marriage, and also different customs between Catholics and
> Protestants.  There’s some interesting but grim stuff about arranged
> marriages in the West of Ireland, with girls being dragged to the altar by
> their fathers, bathed in tears, to marry men they hadn’t a notion for. “The
> Chief time for marriages is from Christmas until Lent, being the season of
> the year when people have the most leisure for settling such business.”
> (page 55).
> 
> 
> 
> But not all marriages were arranged. Couples mostly seemed to select each
> other in the ways we would recognise today. Another factor was that
> marriage was the only thing they could look to, to break the miserableness
> of their existence. “Perhaps the strongest motives urging young people
> towards early marriages were the wretchedness of their living conditions
> and their realization that no ordinary amount of self-denial or industry
> gave promise of better times. Contemporaries frequently regarded early
> marriage as one of the evils of poor living conditions.” (p57).
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, as I say, that study contains quite a bit on marriage customs.
> 
> 
> 
> Some couples eloped (if they had the means). For years the main ferry
> between Scotland and the Belfast area was between Portpatrick in
> Wigtownshire and Donaghadee in Co. Down.  So couples eloped to Portpatrick
> to get married. Scottish law then (and now) allows a couple to marry at 16,
> and without parental consent.  (In England and Ireland parental consent was
> required till you were 21). Some folk may have heard of people running off
> to Gretna Green to get married. Gretna Green is on the border between
> England & Scotland and so was handy if you were English and in a hurry to
> get married, but Portpatrick was the equivalent if coming from Ireland.
> Here’s a link to marriages in Portpatrick involving couples from Ireland,
> going back to 1721. Most of these are presumably elopements. I can’t think
> of any other reason for marrying there:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ulsterancestry.com/free/ShowFreePage-39.html#gsc.tab=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ulster-Scots are an interesting group.  I did a course at Queens
> University, Belfast a year or two back on migration into Ireland. The
> lecturer drew a contrast between various invaders such as the Vikings and
> the Ulster – Scots.  In spite of being present for 300 years or so, the
> Vikings left very little impact on Ireland. There’s a few place names such
> as Strangford (strong fjord) and the odd surname which may point to Norse
> origins, but by and large there’s not much sign of them. Part of the reason
> was that they only settled around the coast, and not in sufficient numbers
> to dominate the population. But another factor was that they didn’t bring
> any women with them.  If they needed women then the answer was usually a
> bit of rape and pillage amongst the locals. However the significance of
> this was that if they settled and remained in Ireland, as some undoubtedly
> did, then they quickly integrated into the local community and their Norse
> identity was soon lost. In contrast, the Scots came with equal numbers of
> men and women.  They tended to marry each other and kept their separate
> identity.  They often looked down on the native Irish and on Catholicism
> which was the denomination that most had fought to get rid of in Scotland
> in the 1500s, so that limited the tendency for inter-marriage, though for
> all that there were plenty of mixed marriages. But overall the Ulster –
> Scots, a high percentage of whom were Presbyterian tended to marry each
> other.  (There were Scots Catholics and Episcopalians who settled in
> Ireland too, but the majority were Presbyterian). This tendency can be
> found in Ireland even today and in part accounts for the separate identity
> that many in Ulster still feel, which is why they often identify as Ulster-
> 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Clonfeacle Parish, Cos. Tyrone & Armagh, Northern Ireland: in 1837 Lewis' Topographical Dictionary of Ireland

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Thank you Len for all your work, but - for me - especially for this one.
Dorothy Gaunt

Sent from my iPad

> On 11/06/2020, at 9:43 PM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Clonfeacle Parish, Cos. Tyrone & Armagh, Northern Ireland: in 1837Lewis'
> Topographical Dictionary of Ireland
> 
> 
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
> 
> Jim McKane
> Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Place Names in County Donegal

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

David, I get the message that the server doesn’t exist. Is this website address 
incomplete

Sent from my iPad

> On 8/05/2020, at 5:33 AM, David Prater via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> There is a great "place name" website for Northern Ireland at 
> Placenamesni.org, but it does not cover County Donegal.  Is there an 
> equivalent web page covering County Donegal?
> Thank you!
> David Prater
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Errors and Omissions

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Merry Christmas Jim and Len. 

Dorothy in New Zealand 

Sent from my iPad

> On 18/12/2019, at 11:14 PM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Listers - 
> 
> It is very rare we receive emails about errors or problems on the website. We 
> know we are "almost perfect"... GRINS... but we can't be THAT 
> perfect!
> 
> Please feel free to email us directly regarding ANY issues/errors on the 
> site. We'll do our best to help out and/or correct the problem.
> 
> Merry Christmas,
> Jim
> 
> Jim McKane
> Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Updates & Additons

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

JoAnn
I remember replying to your initial message as I too have McQuades from Tyrone. 
I told you what I knew of mine, and asked for more information and also asked 
if you had taken a DNA test, but heard no further. I am sure you will find the 
advice Elwyn and Ed have given you will be useful and wish you luck in your 
searches.  I hope you will post your findings here as I am always interested to 
hear about McQuades/ McQuaids. 
Dorothy

Sent from my iPad

> On 2/12/2019, at 11:33 AM, Edward J. Lowitz via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> JoAnn, you don’t cite the source of your information.  Was it an obit?  
> Verbal family history?  Internet source?  All of those can simply be wrong.  
> Have you been able to confirm from another independent source that he was 
> indeed from Tyrone?  You may want to confirm Tyrone before you spend any more 
> time on it. 
>  
> Ed.
>  
> From: CoTyroneList [mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com] On 
> Behalf Of elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 4:56 PM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
> Cc: elwyn soutter
> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Updates & Additons
>  
> JoAnn,
>  
> You haven’t said what denomination your McQuade family was but looking at the 
> 1901 census for Tyrone all 131 were RC so I’ll assume yours were too.
>  
> I searched the rootsireland records for any McQuade children born in Tyrone 
> in 1830 +/- 10 years to parents named Dominick and Susan. I did not find any. 
> I also checked the Ancestry RC records and likewise didn’t find anything. The 
> problem may be that the parish your ancestor came from may not have records 
> for that period. That wasn’t uncommon.  Many RC parishes didn't start keeping 
> records till the 1820s or later. There are few other records to refer to at 
> that period.
>  
> I checked the tithe applotment records for Tyrone for the period 1825 – 1835. 
> They should list anyone with land (the tithes were essentially a land tax). 
> There was no Dominick McQuade listed suggesting your ancestor probably wasn’t 
> a farmer.
>  
> Statutory death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched the stat 
> records for  Co Tyrone for a Dominic(k) who died 1864 – 1901 but did  find 
> any. Likewise for Susan, I found just 2 of the right age. One was a spinster 
> who died  in 1884 aged 72 and the other who died 23.5.1899 aged 75 was the 
> widow of Patrick McQuade. So, if they came from Tyrone, it appears that your 
> ancestors both died before 1864. In which case there may be no record of 
> their deaths.
>  
> I also searched Griffiths Valuation (c 1860) for Dominick and Susan McQuade 
> (and variations) but did not find either. That also suggest both were dead by 
> that era.
>  
> Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have additional 
> information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA reportedly has 
> more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously 
> increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try them or, if 
> you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them for no fee.
>  
> The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project 
> in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price.  
> http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Elwyn
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 21:16, joAnn via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> I requested many months ago for help in finding my ancestors who came from 
> Tyrone Co., Ireland.  I have never received one response.  Please help – am I 
> supposed to go in another direction??  George H. McQuade is my great 
> grandfather.  Here is all I know:
>  
> “George H. McQuade, Sr., aged 77 years, died at his home in Beaver Prairie, 
> Clinton Co., Illinois.  Deceased was born in County Tyrone, Ireland, in 1829 
> and in 1846 (age 17) he emigrated to this country, making St. Louis his new 
> home.  Here he married Mrs. Catherine Ramsey Montague. In 1873, he removed to 
> Beaver Prairie, this county, where he engaged in farming. 
>  
>  
> 
> George H. McQuade Sr. (11/18/1829-05/05/1906) was born in Tyrone County, 
> Monaghan, Ireland.  His parents were:  Dominick (1800-   ) and Susan McQuade 
> (1810 --). He came to America in 1846 and resided in St. Louis.  On 
> 12/6/1855, he married (Mrs.) Catherine Ramsey Tague (1/26/1826-4/11/1900), 
> born in Monagham, Ireland, the daughter of George & Margaret Ramsey.
>  
> I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP I CAN GET.  THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.
>  
> JoAnn (McQuade) Varel
> var...@frontiernet.net
>  
> ***
>  
> From: CoTyroneList  On Behalf Of 
> Jim McKane via CoTyroneList
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 7:59 AM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
> Cc: Jim McKane 
> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Updates & Additons
>  
> Hello to ALL CTI Supporters and Followers - 
>  
> WOW! What a start to 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Drumglass Parish (inc. Dungannon), Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland Death Announcements 1775-1850

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Wow Len! What a fantastic job you’ve done here. Nothing that I can see relevant 
to me on first perusal but it all makes fascinating reading. Thanks. 
Dorothy Gaunt

Sent from my iPhone

> 
> On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, 04:37:42 AM PST, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Drumglass Parish (inc. Dungannon), Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland Death 
> Announcements 1775-1850
> 
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for yet another HUGE addition to CTI!
> 
> 
> Jim McKane
> Kitchener, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Dungannon Quarter Sessions, Co. Tyrone, January 1845

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

At last! Something from Clonfeacle! (Not mine of course ). Thanks Len.
Dorothy, NZ 

Sent from my iPad

> On 13/09/2019, at 9:24 PM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dungannon Quarter Sessions, Co. Tyrone, January 1845
> 
> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
> 
> Jim McKane
> NEW ADDRESS as of 8 Oct 2019
> 29 Woodfield Street, Kitchener N2P 2S8
> Telephone 226-666-0500
> N.B. - not sold yet, just moving!!
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Every Name Index - FULLY COMPLETED

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Thank you all! 295,000 is an amazing effort and truly appreciated.
Dorothy in New Zealand

Sent from my iPad

> On 22/08/2019, at 7:44 AM, cheryl lyttle via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you to all the volunteers!!
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS
> From: CoTyroneList  on behalf of 
> Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 3:41:47 PM
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
> Cc: Jim McKane 
> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Every Name Index - FULLY COMPLETED
>  
> A small but dedicated, hard-working band of volunteers came forward to help 
> us create the Every Name Index of almost 295,000 names in record time!
> 
> On behalf of the thousands of CoTyroneIreland.com users, we wish to 
> permanently acknowledge these generous people -
> 
> Gordon Wilkinson
> Barb Coulter
> Kim Carson
> Pat H
> Ed McGeehan
> Mary Jarvis
> Lindsay Graham
> Mary Purchase
> Bonnie Jordan
> Liona Harris
> Jacque Newman
> 
> 
> This was a HUGE task but seeing the extremely high volume of use the Index 
> receives it was well-worth the effort.
> Without such dedicated people, CTI would not survive!
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Jim McKane
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McQuade, George H.

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Hi JoAnn
I don’t know enough about my McQuades to help you. Have you taken a DNA test? 
We might find a link there. Timothy McQuade on this mailing list might be 
helpful.
Dorothy

Sent from my iPad

> On 21/06/2019, at 8:59 AM, joAnn via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Please help me find out more about my great-grandfather – see below.  If 
> there is another source, would you please let me know.  I greatly appreciate 
> any help you can give me.
>  
> JoAnn (McQuade) Varel
> 9707 Bartelso Rd
> Carlyle, IL  62231
> Ph.  618-765-2188
> E-mail:  var...@frontiernet.net
>  
>  
> George H. McQuade Sr. (11/18/1829-05/05/1906) was born in Tyrone County, 
> Monaghan, Ireland.  His parents were:  Dominick (1800-   ) and Susan McQuade 
> (1810 --). He came to America in 1846 and resided in St. Louis. 
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI's New Look for Mobile Devices

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

The new look is amazing! Useful, easy to use, and very attractive  Many thanks.
Dorothy in New Zealand

Sent from my iPad

> On 21/03/2019, at 12:12 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Listers - 
> 
> First, thanks so much for your continued support!  
> Without YOU there is no CTI!
> 
> Over the last several years as smartphone and tablet use has continued to 
> grow, CTI receives about 50% of its usage from those users. Therefore, this 
> means CTI MUST move to what is called a responsive design to handle all the 
> various screen sizes. So, a few weeks ago, we hired a programmer to design 
> software to enable converting the existing format.
> 
> However, doing so is extremely labour intensive as each page must be opened 
> and converted one by one. Therefore, this task will take a long time as we 
> cannot allow the adding of new content nor the Every Name Index to suffer.
> 
> This is an example of the new look - 
> https://cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/moneydig4.html
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns, please always feel free to contact me,
> 
> Best regards
> Jim McKane, webmaster
> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century

[Dorothy Gaunt via CoTyroneList]

Elwyn, thank you so much for this fascinating account. It makes the ancestors 
come alive, reading of their day-to-day lives. 
Dorothy in New Zealand 

Sent from my iPad

> On 20/10/2018, at 4:29 AM, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 
>  wrote:
> 
> From a recent post about farming in Tyrone, I sense there is an interest in 
> day to day life in Tyrone in the 1800s. The following document might 
> therefore interest members of this forum. I found it in PRONI and thought it 
> gave a good description of life then.
> 
>  
> 
> PRONI Reference :
> 
> T2279/2
> 
>  
> 
> MEMORIES OF DUNGANNON, FLAX, THE BIG WIND, TRAVEL, EMIGRATION, POTATO BLIGHT, 
> FAMINE
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Notes and reminiscences dictated to me during the winter of 1904-5 by my 
> father James Brown Donaghmore, [Co. Tyrone] [signed] Nora Brown.
> 
>  
> 
> 'I was born on 25 July 1823 in the old house in Donaghmore, now a part of the 
> soap works. My father was David Brown, son of John Brown who married Miss 
> McClelland and lived in Mullaghmore. Miss McClelland's brother married my 
> grandfather's sister and also lived in Mullaghmore. My father had one brother 
> John who lived in Irish Street and carried on a bakery. He married Miss Jane 
> McDowell. My mother was Betty, daughter of Henry King of Middletown Co 
> Monaghan.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'When first married, my parents lived in a small house in Mullaghmore, since 
> pulled down, and afterwards in a house in Donaghmore opposite the chapel. 
> Then they moved to the house where I was born. They had ten children. Mary 
> married Richard Tener; Henry married Jane Carr; Ann and Thomas who died in 
> childhood. Margaret married Henry Oliver; Eliza married Robert Smith; Jane 
> married Thomas Lilburn; Amelia married Joseph Acheson; Isabella married John 
> Beatty and myself who married Jane Ellen Nicholson.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'The first thing I can remember is a servant of ours Mary Mullen going to 
> America on St. Patrick's Day 1828. She and the rest of her party drove to 
> Belfast in a cart to sail thence to America. They took with them provisions 
> for the journey, chiefly oat cakes, as then was the custom. The outward 
> voyage averaged 30 days, but occasionally was 6 or 7 weeks and on these 
> occasions provisions ran short and the poor people were in danger of 
> starvation.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'Another early recollection is being taken into a darkened bedroom to see a 
> little play fellow, who was ill of smallpox, there being little knowledge of 
> the risk of infection then.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'My first teacher was Mr Richard Robinson whose school was in the space now 
> planted with trees behind the cross. It was then the only school in the 
> village. Later I had lessons at home from Mr Stuart who taught the R[oman] 
> C[atholic] school in Dungannon.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'After leaving the village school I was sent to my sister Mary Tener in Perry 
> Street where her husband had a grocer's shop and I attended a school kept by 
> two teachers from the South of Ireland, Messrs Murphy and Riordan. Afterwards 
> I lived with my sister Margaret in Church Street where her husband carried on 
> a saddlery trade and I went to Mr Burch's school on the Castle Hill. I 
> remained here until I was nearly 13 when in the summer of 1836 I went to the 
> Rev. John Bleckley's school in Monaghan. Here I stayed until I was sent for 
> to come to the death bed of my father on 17 November 1837. He died on 22 
> November and I did not return to school, but went to business with my brother 
> in Donaghmore.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'Previous to the year 1816 my father was engaged in the linen trade giving 
> out home spun yarn and getting it woven in hand looms in the cottages. At 
> that time a good deal of the linen trade was transacted in Dublin, not 
> Belfast, probably in consequence of better banking facilities. My father used 
> to go to Dublin to sell his linen, in company of other merchants. They rode 
> on horse back, in parties, for protection from highwaymen, the journey to 
> Dublin occupying three days. In later years when the linen trade in Belfast 
> had increased, buyers for the bleachers came to Dungannon every Thursday and 
> took their places on the "standings" on the east side of the square where the 
> farmers brought the webs, woven by their families and servants. The 
> "standings" were benches with boards in front of them, on which the webs were 
> thrown for examination. When the price was arranged the buyer put his mark on 
> it and the seller took it to Mr Robert Tener in Perry Street who measured it. 
> He got a few pence for each web measured, in consideration for which he 
> supplied the buyers with dinner.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'Travellers then wishing to go to Belfast, used to leave Dungannon at 4 am on 
> a long car which took them by Moy and Loughgall to Portadown. Here they 
> joined John Byer's coach, running between Armagh and Belfast, reaching the 
> latter place about 1 pm.'
> 
>  
> 
> 'During the war with