[CoTyroneMailingList] David and Mary Anne (Beatty) Lindsay & James Lindsay
Thank you to Jim for posting the Lindsay people in "Born Tyrone, Buried Ontario" section. They're my family's "brick walls" and we're hoping fellow listers can us help find their origins. David Lindsay was my GG-grandfather. According to death cert, he was born in Tyrone abt. 1781; died May 19, 1875 in Hornby. (Hornby aka Esquesing, Trafalgar, Halton - located just west of what is now Toronto). He was an Orangeman, a farmer, a Presbyterian, and operated the "Red Lion Inn" in Hornby. We believe David boarded the "Mariner" in Londonderry with James Lindsay (his brother or other close relation), and arrived in New London, Connecticut in 1811. They settled in Hornby and bought adjacent farms around 1818-1820. Mary Anne Beatty (or alternate spelling) was my GG-grandmother, wife of David Lindsay. Born in Fintona, Tyrone about 1789-1794; died Dec. 12, 1852 or 1857 in Hornby. Her gravestone is at Hornby Presbyterian Cemetery but is too worn to verify death year. According to a family bible, David and Mary Anne were married on April 16, 1814, location unknown, but possibly north-east U.S. since their first four children were born there. They had ten children: four born in Pennsylvania/New York, the others born in Hornby. James Lindsay was born in Tyrone abt. 1793; died March or April, 1873 in Hornby. He was a farmer and Wesleyan Methodist. His full obituary is posted in "Born Tyrone, Buried Ontario." He married Rosanna Crawford around 1824 (date based on birth of first child). Rosanna was born abt. 1806 somewhere in Ireland; died Dec. 1876 in Halton. They had 11 children, all born in Hornby. We have no more information on these ancestors. Where did David and James come from in Ireland? Who did they leave behind? Where did they live between the time they landed in the U.S. in 1811 and settled in Hornby ten years later? To add to our confusion, a long-deceased relative produced a cryptic family tree that notes "David and James came from Armagh." Since Tyrone is listed on David's death cert and in James' obit, we wonder if Omagh was the intended location. A thick Irish accent could account for misunderstanding by Canadian ears. Additional folklore tells us that our Lindsay family spent "just a few generations in Ireland" and were originally from Scotland. David and James came from a wealthy family, their father was "high up" with the Orangemen in Belfast, and was possibly a farmer and/or a doctor. With no parental names, no paper trail, and no knowledge of how Armagh and Belfast got into the mix, we're stuck. We feel that they may have had good reason to keep their past a mystery. If that's what they intended, they'd be disappointed to know that their wish to fly under radar just encourages us to dig deeper! We've had several DNA tests analyzed but with no resulting aha! moments. If any listers can provide tips or advice on how to solve the mystery, it would be greatly appreciated! Jacque Newman (nee Lindsay) ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Errors and Omissions
Yes, you ARE perfect! But I have a question... Yesterday you posted a link to new content in Born in Tyrone, Buried in America. The link worked, but when I went to the home page to find same for "Buried in Canada," I couldn't find it. Is it hiding somewhere obvious? Thanks, Jacque On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 5:15:53 a.m. EST, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Listers - It is very rare we receive emails about errors or problems on the website. We know we are "almost perfect"... GRINS... but we can't be THAT perfect! Please feel free to email us directly regarding ANY issues/errors on the site. We'll do our best to help out and/or correct the problem. Merry Christmas,Jim Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Using a researcher
Margaret, I've been searching for Armstrongs, too - Northern Ireland to Canada.My bunch ended up in the Halton area (west of Toronto) and includes more than a few Samuels and Williams. Just by chance, is that where your Samuel and William ended up? Jacquelyn On Monday, December 3, 2018 9:24 PM, Katie Green via CoTyroneList wrote: Yes, my Armstrongs are Dublin to Quebec. Lots of those Armstrongs in Ireland. Katie Green On Dec 3, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: Margaret, I echo what Boyd has said. Armstrong is a very common name in Ireland.In the 1901 census there are 6122. 545 in Co Tyrone, 6 named Samuel and41 named William. The names would have been even more common in the mid 1800s asthe population was considerably greater then. (It was 8 million in 1841 and it’sonly 6 million today). There’s 42 parishes in the county, and probably250 – 300 churches. Not all the churches have records back to the mid 1800s letalone 1811 when William was born, and of those that do, many are not on-line.Only the RC records are fairly comprehensively on-line. For all other denominationsit’s very patchy. A lot have been copied and are in PRONI, but there are somesmall churches where the Minister still has the only copy of the records.No-one has copied them at all, and the only way of checking them is to contacthim/her. Searching all the various church records for Tyrone is a mammoth task.Researchers need to be able to reduce the search by knowing the exact denomination(s)of the families they are looking at. And we need some reasonably reliableinformation on where they might have lived to keep the research withinreasonable bounds. Searching the church records for the whole county forArmstrong would be a huge task. But even then, there’s no getting away from thefact that the Church of Ireland lost a significant portion of its records inthe 1922 fire, and that other denominations didn’t always keep records, or ifthey did, they have been lost or damaged. So no certainty of success at all. It’s worth bearing in mind that noteveryone is listed in Griffiths. Servants, people lodging with others and folkwith very low value properties were all excluded. Labourers who moved aroundregularly to follow available work often slipped through the Griffiths clerks net.There are other examples. Also it was compiled for Tyrone around 1860, so if afamily had left by that year, they won't be in it. With your Samuel and William, I wouldsearch all possible records in Canada, or wherever else they ended up. Marriageand death certificates sometimes give places of birth, as well as parentsnames. Military records, obituaries, wills etc can all throw up informationabout someone’s origins. Because it’ssuch a common name, to trace William Armstrong born c1852, we’d need hismother’s full name, to be sure of finding the right family. Presumably you knowthat, though it isn’t in your post. The researcher’s expertise is obviouslyimportant but equally we can’t magic up records that don’t exist anymore, and themore accurate your information and the narrower the search area, the better thechances of success. Elwyn From: Boyd Gray via CoTyroneList To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List Cc: Boyd Gray Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018, 22:31 Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Using a researcher Hi Margaret, I am a "researcher" currently working on a project very similar to the one you describe. And after weeks of research, I have not found that magical "smoking gun" which you seem to desire. Thankfully, I am not being expected to do so and I made that clear at the start when I offered to help. It is as simple as this. If the records do not exist, no amount of research, by anyone other than a magic fairy, is ever going to find that definitive link for which you seek. In the end, it will all come down to probabilities. If you have researched every birth, marriage and death, every land record from the Tithe Applotment Books, through the Griffiths Valuation AND beyond through the Griffiths Valuation Revision Books, through their overlap with the censuses and right through to their end circa 1930, then you will have sufficient sense of the family in that area to know whether they are your folks, to withing 80% or 90% degree of certainty. But you can not expect even a professional researcher to magic up a record which does not exist. Just like you, we found a Christopher Irwin, but not the Christopher Irwin who emigrated to Ontario in 1850 because this Christopher Irwin was still in Co Tyrone when he died in 1906. But, we have done enough work on this branch of the Irwins, compared to other Irwins from County Tyrone, which was the only clue given by Canadian records, to be reasonably sure we have the right Irwins. But no smoking gun. No family bible. No record from a list of sources which simply does not exist. No researcher with a magic wand.
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5
Beautifully written, Ron!
Thank you so much.
Jacquelyn
On Friday, October 26, 2018 9:20 AM, Liz Fitzgerald via CoTyroneList
wrote:
#yiv6592541155 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Thank you. This paints a
picture for me of my ancestors. Love it.From: CoTyroneList
on behalf of Len Swindley via
CoTyroneList
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 12:02 AM
To: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Len Swindley
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher
Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5 Hello Listers; There has been
recent interest expressed in the lives of our Tyrone forbears (thanks to Elwyn)
and here is an extract from the Ordnance Survey Memoirs of the 1820s-30s that
offers some observations on living conditions in Clogher parish. Having read
through many of the memoirs covering the parishes of Co. Tyrone, this report
could be applied similarly to all parishes. Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
EXTRACTED FROM ORDNANCE MEMOIRS OF IRELAND: PARISHES OF COUNTY TYRONE VOL. 1
(INSTITUTE OF IRISH STUDIES, QUEEN’S UNIVERSITY OF BELFAST) (1990)STATISTICAL
MEMOIR BY LIEUTENANT R. STOTHERDANSWERS TO QUESTIONS:THE HABITS OF THE
PEOPLE42nd: There is very little order, cleanliness, or neatness in general to
be found either in the houses or of the more wealthy farmers or in the cottages
of the poor. The turf stack often approaches within a few yards of the door and
thus intersects the view and stops the currency of the air. The yard in front
of the house is full of the odour of the cow house and stable, for they are
often built in the very front and sometime adjoining the dwellinghouse. The
lanes and approaches to the house are narrow, rough and filthy in the extreme.
Within no order is visible; you may see pigs and fowls eating in the kitchen
and everything is dirty and confused, the furniture a few pots and noggins, a
stool or a broken chair. The potatoes at meals are thrown out in a basket and
so laid on the table or on a stool, and the whole family gather round, master,
mistress, children and servants in a mass, and eat out of the basket without
knife, fork or any appendage at meals. A man who can give his daughter in
marriage 50 or 100 pounds will live in this manner. But this is not universally
the case: sometimes everything is seen comfortable, neat and clean, both within
and without the farmhouse, the furniture good and decent, the kitchen neatly
tiled, the outside of the house well whitewashed and thatched, the yard and
lanes about the house in good repair and clean. It is, however, to be regretted
that very few instances occur where this order and decency is observed.
FOOD44th: Potatoes and milk is the general food of the farmers of this barony,
for breakfast, dinner and supper during 9 months of the year. This is sometimes
varied by a bit of bacon for dinner, sometimes butter and oaten bread or eggs
are added to the potatoes for dinner. In 3 of the summer months when potatoes
begin to fail, stirabout or flummery is substituted for potatoes, for breakfast
or supper.45th: The same report will serve for the manufacturing class and
tradespeople.46th: Potatoes and milk, or when milk grows scarce potatoes or
herrings, or potatoes and salt is almost the only food of the poor inhabitants
during the entire year. Occasionally a little stirabout is added for supper or
breakfast in the summer months. EDUCATION47th: There is certainly a general
desire of instruction in all classes of the people, both Protestants and Roman
Catholics. The poor are anxious to teach their children reading, writing and
arithmetic, and although the facilities for the education of the Roman
Catholics is not so great as for the Protestants, being hindered by their
priests from attending Sunday and other schools, yet there is certainly a
desire in the minds even of the Roman Catholics for the education of their
children.48th: The children of the poor pay for their education according to
the following rates: for spelling and reading, for writing for arithmetic, for
book-keeping [blank]49th: It is believed that there is at least an improvement
in the morals and cleanliness of children attending Sunday Schools. They are
not permitted to attend unless they are clean and they are expelled if any
gross immorality be committed. It is also hoped that there is in the
inhabitants in general, a greater respect for the laws, fewer quarrels and less
fighting than formerly Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century
That was a great read - thanks so much for posting it. If anyone else on the list has more stories like this, please share! Written pictures of our ancestors' lives is much appreciated for those of us who have nothing more than names, dates, and maybe a grainy photo or two. Bonus: It also helps put sober perspective into what we consider "problems" in our own lives. Jacquelyn On Friday, October 19, 2018 12:18 PM, Liz Fitzgerald via CoTyroneList wrote: This was wonderful to read. Thank you. So enjoyable. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Gail Mooney via CoTyroneList wrote: Awesome, thank you so much Elwyn. For those of us in other parts of the world who are challenged in our quests for information about our family members in Ireland, you provide a window into their times. More,please!Gail IRWIN Mooney / xo From: "elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList" To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" Cc: "elwyn soutter" Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:29:46 AM Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Life in Tyrone in the 19th century >From a recent post about farming in Tyrone, I sense there is an interest in >day to day life in Tyrone in the 1800s. The following document might therefore >interest members of this forum. I found it in PRONI and thought it gave a good >description of life then. | PRONI Reference : | T2279/2 | MEMORIES OF DUNGANNON, FLAX, THE BIG WIND, TRAVEL, EMIGRATION, POTATO BLIGHT, FAMINE Notes and reminiscences dictated to me during the winter of 1904-5 by my father James Brown Donaghmore, [Co. Tyrone] [signed] Nora Brown. 'I was born on 25 July 1823 in the old house in Donaghmore, now a part of the soap works. My father was David Brown, son of John Brown who married Miss McClelland and lived in Mullaghmore. Miss McClelland's brother married my grandfather's sister and also lived in Mullaghmore. My father had one brother John who lived in Irish Street and carried on a bakery. He married Miss Jane McDowell. My mother was Betty, daughter of Henry King of Middletown Co Monaghan.' 'When first married, my parents lived in a small house in Mullaghmore, since pulled down, and afterwards in a house in Donaghmore opposite the chapel. Then they moved to the house where I was born. They had ten children. Mary married Richard Tener; Henry married Jane Carr; Ann and Thomas who died in childhood. Margaret married Henry Oliver; Eliza married Robert Smith; Jane married Thomas Lilburn; Amelia married Joseph Acheson; Isabella married John Beatty and myself who married Jane Ellen Nicholson.' 'The first thing I can remember is a servant of ours Mary Mullen going to America onSt. Patrick's Day 1828. She and the rest of her party drove to Belfast in a cart to sail thence to America. They took with them provisions for the journey, chiefly oat cakes, as then was the custom. The outward voyage averaged 30 days, but occasionally was 6 or 7 weeks and on these occasions provisions ran short and the poor people were in danger of starvation.' 'Another early recollection is being taken into a darkened bedroom to see a little play fellow, who was ill of smallpox, there being little knowledge of the risk of infection then.' 'My first teacher was Mr Richard Robinson whose school was in the space now planted with trees behind the cross. It was then the only school in the village. Later I had lessons at home from Mr Stuart who taught the R[oman] C[atholic] school in Dungannon.' 'After leaving the village school I was sent to my sister Mary Tener in Perry Street where her husband had a grocer's shop and I attended a school kept by two teachers from the South of Ireland, Messrs Murphy and Riordan. Afterwards I lived with my sister Margaret in Church Street where her husband carried on a saddlery trade and I went to Mr Burch's school on the Castle Hill. I remained here until I was nearly 13 when in the summer of 1836 I went to the Rev. John Bleckley's school in Monaghan. Here I stayed until I was sent for to come to the death bed of my father on 17 November 1837. He died on 22 November and I did not return to school, but went to business with my brother in Donaghmore.' 'Previous to the year 1816 my father was engaged in the linen trade giving out home spun yarn and getting it woven in hand looms in the cottages. At that time a good deal of the linen trade was transacted in Dublin, not Belfast, probably in consequence of better banking facilities. My father used to go to Dublin to sell his linen, incompany of other merchants. They rode on horse back, in parties, for protection from highwaymen, the journey to Dublin occupying three days. In later years when the linen trade in Belfast had increased, buyers for the bleachers came to Dungannon every Thursday and took their places on the "standings" on the east side of the square where the farmers brought the webs, woven by their families and servants. The "standings" were benches with boards
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Every-name Indexing Project Progress
Okay then - sounds good. Please sign me up as a volunteer. Jacquelyn On Sunday, August 19, 2018 8:23 PM, BARBARA COULTER via CoTyroneList wrote: As someone who is currently volunteering on this project, I can confirm that it is very easy and straightforward to work on. Nothing tricky about it at all…..Barb Coulter On Aug 19, 2018, at 10:44 AM, James McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: I send you a spreadsheet template on which you type in every name from one page of the website into the spreadsheet. Simple, he? RegardsJim Jim McKane South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 12:21 PM Jacque Newman via CoTyroneList wrote: Jim, I'd love to help, but don't know what it entails. How is "indexing" done? Could you describe? Thanks!Jacquelyn On Sunday, August 19, 2018 7:56 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Listers - Our faithful volunteers have now indexed over 20.3K (20,300) names. This is only a very small portion of those names on the website. If you are finding this database useful, maybe you would consider giving us a little help? Every-Name Index Jim McKane, webmaster South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CTI Every-name Indexing Project Progress
Jim, I'd love to help, but don't know what it entails. How is "indexing" done? Could you describe? Thanks!Jacquelyn On Sunday, August 19, 2018 7:56 AM, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Listers - Our faithful volunteers have now indexed over 20.3K (20,300) names. This is only a very small portion of those names on the website. If you are finding this database useful, maybe you would consider giving us a little help? Every-Name Index Jim McKane, webmaster South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
