Re: Automatic's
petro wrote: The only good use for a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle. -- True, except that it's not a good idea in most cities and towns to walk around carrying a rifle. Or, maybe it is a *good* idea, but some people don't like it. And then you're much more likely to have to use it when you really didn't want to. Pistols are *handy*, but that doesn't mean they are a good tool for the job. They are, at best adequate. Trust me, carry a pistol -- concealed --- everything will go much better. And trying to carry something like a Desert Eagle concealed, in the Summer wearing shorts and tanktop ain't easy. Life is full of conflicts like this. Should I, or shouldn't I? I would, were I in Washington State, or any one of the 8 states that it has reciprocity with, carry my HK-p7. As it is, I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, one of a minority of states whose citizens are too ignorant and untrustworthy to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
RE: Automatic's
At 05:11 PM 6/10/01 -0700, petro wrote: Secondly, if you think *ANY* firearm you can fire standing up will Knock them on their behind, take a high school physics class. Well said, but: In _The Irish War_ there's a description of IRA improvised recoilless 'rifles' which, like their .mil-industrial analogues, toss an equal mass out the back end. The reacting countermass is a bunch of flakes which dissipate the KE against the atmosphere. Sure, but that isn't a cartridge based pistol, which is what we were talking about. There are also gyro-jet type munitions, which aren't all that accurate, but can pack a greater punch because they do some or all of their accelerating post-barrel. [Ie, consider a barrel open at both ends. Put missile, charge, countermass flakes in that order. Point missile at thing you don't like, and keep friendlies a few meters away from the countermass ejection end of the barrel.] Given that your average pistol fight takes place inside 3 or 4 meters, that could prove tough. That said, an (e.g.) hip or knee shot on a biped will cause it to fall approximately back if the posture is right. That also is just the physics of actively balanced inverted pendula, biomechanics. Knee shots, yes. But if you are that good, might as well go for the triangle formed by the top center of the lip and the eyebrow ridges. That *WILL* cause the target to collapse with anything over a .22LR, and if you get an eye will 100% guarenteed stop the fight (with that individual) now. Only one person has survived a shot (by a firearm) to the eye, and she's been on life support since she was hit by a .22. As for the hip, it's a large and relatively porus bone. There have been a few cases where hip shots have failed to drop an attacker because the bullet just punched a hole, failing to fracture the hip. Heart/lung shots and brain shots tend to be your best bet with a pistol. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Re: This Is Your Brain On Cow
At 02:09 PM 6/10/01 -0400, Greg Newby wrote: This is because there are strict US FDA regulations concerning the use of infected beef in restaraunts, but they have little to say about what individuals in private homes eat. Indeed there's been a few cases of something like BSE in Americans who've eaten elk and / or deer. But since the infected aren't fed back into the population, there's no way for it to spread. (E.g., if it arises spontaneously now and then.) Grass-eaters are not carnivores, much less cannibals, in the wild. By definition.
Re: This Is Your Brain On Cow
At 02:09 PM 06/10/2001 -0400, Greg Newby wrote: Aha, yes. Being a vegan, I don't need to worry about such things. I demonstrate my courage by snorting a line of caffeine, followed by some guacamole. An acquaintance of mine and his druggie friends decided that since many drugs have different effects depending on whether they're consumed in original plant form, refined powder, or smoked, they'd try smoking some caffeine pills. Crunched up their No-Doz, put it in their pipe and smoked it. ... Do not try this. ... Really. ... Everything caffeine does to you, the jitters, the headaches, etc., all at once in a big unpleasant rush... ... Stick to the brewed stuff.
RE: Automatic's
At 04:56 PM 6/10/01 -0700, petro wrote: A .300 Win Mag or .338 Laupa will do 1000 to 1500 yard hits just as well, in a smaller, cheaper, easier to handle package. In unknown wind? Ok. At 1000 to 1500 yards you don't shoot in unknown wind, you watch everything *very* carefully. Even that big ass .50 cal is going to be blown around a bit by an errant breeze, and at 3000 to 4500 feet, there are a lot of errant breezes on anything but the flattest, most open terrain. Anything past 800 to 1000 yards is luck and voodoo anyway. Not me, but others, could contradict this by example. There are so few who can hit the kinds of targets we are talking about at those ranges that it is functionally voodoo. When you get past 1k, you get massive bullet drop and even a minor wind difference can push your bullet off course, take a look at these bullet drop tables: http://www.snipercentral.com/50bmg.htm http://www.snipercentral.com/338.htm http://www.snipercentral.com/300.htm http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm Look at how fast the bullets are dropping at 1k yards. There is an especially nice chart on the .338 page that graphically compares the four rounds. When you couple bullet drop with (in a sniper/marksman scenario) even the *slightest* unknown elevation changes, it becomes *very* *very* difficult to hit reliably hit a bravo sized and shaped target. When you factor in time-to-target (over a second at those ranges) it becomes even more voodoo. Then remember you've got *one* shot to hit. That first cold barrelled shot is either going to hit, or alert your target you are there. Sure, it can be done. With lots of training, luck and voodoo. Also, read what he has to say on the .50BMG page about using that round against human targets. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
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Re: Automatic's
petro wrote: The only good use for a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle. -- True, except that it's not a good idea in most cities and towns to walk around carrying a rifle. Or, maybe it is a *good* idea, but some people don't like it. And then you're much more likely to have to use it when you really didn't want to. Trust me, carry a pistol -- concealed --- everything will go much better. And trying to carry something like a Desert Eagle concealed, in the Summer wearing shorts and tanktop ain't easy. Life is full of conflicts like this. Should I, or shouldn't I? -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Environmentalists try federalism approach
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010609/ts/bush_oil_ethanol_4.html Environmentalists said the administration was preventing California from deciding for itself how best to protect the public health and clean air and drinking water supplies.
RE: Automatic's
it's not that difficult to get a CCW in California if you are willing to go to the effort required. Give me a call if you want more info. I know the effort required: (1) Make a significant campaign donation to your local Sheriff or CLEO. (2) Establish Residency in one of the four or five counties where the local CLEO operates on a Shall Issue basis. (3) Become a reserve officer in a local PD that grants off-duty carry. I am morally opposed to (1) even if I did have the money. As to (2), I don't have the money. (3) is doable, and has other benefits (you get access to LEO only training classes at places like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and AWT), but I don't have the time or money. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
FREE SHOPPING MALL!
FREE online Mall with Rebates which could be built into a HOME BUSINESS. For information put YES in the subject and return. If not interested CLICK-DELETE! Thanks, Marilyn and Walt This information is being sent in compliance with Senate Bill 1618, Title 3, Section 301. To be removed from this list please put REMOVE in the subject and return
RE: Automatic's
At 04:56 PM 6/10/01 -0700, petro wrote: A .300 Win Mag or .338 Laupa will do 1000 to 1500 yard hits just as well, in a smaller, cheaper, easier to handle package. In unknown wind? Ok. Anything past 800 to 1000 yards is luck and voodoo anyway. Not me, but others, could contradict this by example.
Re: Automatic's
- Original Message - From: petro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:19 PM Subject: RE: Automatic's That *WILL* cause the target to collapse with anything over a .22LR, and if you get an eye will 100% guarenteed stop the fight (with that individual) now. Only one person has survived a shot (by a firearm) to the eye, and she's been on life support since she was hit by a .22. Where did this statistic come from? I find it fairly hard to believe Jon
RE: Automatic's
Oops, that was supposed to only go to the original sender, it was private email. I screw up. Sorry. it's not that difficult to get a CCW in California if you are willing to go to the effort required. Give me a call if you want more info. I know the effort required: (1) Make a significant campaign donation to your local Sheriff or CLEO. (2) Establish Residency in one of the four or five counties where the local CLEO operates on a Shall Issue basis. (3) Become a reserve officer in a local PD that grants off-duty carry. I am morally opposed to (1) even if I did have the money. As to (2), I don't have the money. (3) is doable, and has other benefits (you get access to LEO only training classes at places like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and AWT), but I don't have the time or money. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
RE: Automatic's
At 05:09 PM 6/10/01, petro wrote: http://www.snipercentral.com/50bmg.htm Also, read what he has to say on the .50BMG page about using that round against human targets. It reads like do as I say, not as I do. For extreme range, he doesn't say not to consider it WITH match grade ammo. Whatever. Dream your dreams, live your fantasies. Then go to the range and try it. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
RE: CDR: RE: Automatic's
Title: RE: CDR: RE: Automatic's -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I also own a Para-Ordnance P10, a subcompact 1911 variant with a 3-inch barrel, a 2 finger grip (unless you have the Pearce magazine floorplates with the pinkie rest) and a 10-round magazine. I am fond of it, and can shoot approximately 2 groups with it at 10 yards. I think it would be a decent choice for general self-defense, but I wouldn't really want to use it against an armored opponent since a .45 ACP's relatively low velocity and large frontal area equate to poor armor penetration. It is certainly lighter and more concealable than my Desert Eagle, though. Of course a MAK-90 with a 75-round drum has merit in a scenario involving armored home invaders... - -Original Message- From: cubic-dog [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 12:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CDR: RE: Automatic's On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, David Honig wrote: At 04:07 PM 6/8/01 -0700, Jonathan Wienke wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I can fire 9 shots in about 4 seconds and stay in the 9 ring of a B-27 silhouette at 10 yards, and slow fire I can neatly remove the X-ring at the same distance...I don't think it would be a bad option against an armored opponent--2 in the body to knock them on their Yawn. Take off your glasses, shoot with your off-hand, at pigs in flak, then talk to me. I'ma M1911 man myself. I have fired this weapon in question and found it quite agreeable. I was pretty amazed. I thought they were just toys for rich kids. However, if you need a rifle, take a rifle. For the bulk of that thing, might was well carry a carbine. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBOyRRERj6oMyeDxZoEQLckgCfYc+DpuKKbIvDXEpYKwnr07z0p4AAnj7s sZzW4HzCUjeDIvu6SkwRMDMI =Eg5g -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ A Fire Upon The Deep I think Vernor Vinge would have to be my favourite science fiction author, just pipping out Stephenson. A Fire Upon The Deep is a tour de force of 90's science fiction. It actually has very little crypto in it, so it is hard for me to award it more than 3 bits of entropy. The main players ship out of a port with a third part of a one time pad. The other two parts ship via other means - a security precaution. The one time slice never makes it to its destination, but is used later in a last ditch effort to establish comms with the good guys, whilst being chased by the bad guys across the universe. This is not a funny book, but Vinge's humour comes through with a single crypto joke which still makes me laugh. To enjoy the joke, you'll have to buy the book. You missed A Deepness in the Sky, written by Vinge, and published in 1999. Crypto plays an important part of the story, and, well, it's Vinge, it's worth a read. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Making over Half Million Dollars every 4 to 5 Months from your Home
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No Subject
¦³µL³Ì·s¥Ø¿ý ³Ì¦n¦³CAD³nÅé [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ORBS sucked into a black hole!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #One popular theory mooted on the Net is that Brown closed down #the site rather than comply with a New Zealand court order #demanding that he remove two specific ISPs from the blacklist. I know I sound naive asking this, but has something like this ever happened in the US? The way I read this, the NZ court ordered a private publisher of an enumeration of IP addresses to modify his publication despite the fact that the IP addresses in question met the criteria for inclusion on the list. (ORBS claimed to be a list of open relays, but it was well known that it included any network that blocked ORBS probes, which apparently included the two companies in question.) In addition, even if it did include networks that didn't fit the stated criteria for inclusion on the list, it seems to me that the circumstances under which a particular entry is added to the list are completely immaterial---for any particular entry on the list, its inclusion only indicates that the ORBS administrators are not adequately assured that spam will not originate from the IP address in quesiton. Doesn't seem like that could possibly be considered libel. One might be able to make the case that being listed in ORBS was damaging in that outgoing email from a listed system would be blocked by lots of people, but that doesn't seem compelling---people are _choosing_ to block traffic from your server based on the fact that they trust the recommendations of ORBS and, according to ORBS, it cannot be ascertained that spam will not originate from the system. Like I said, I'm probably just naive. -- Riad Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105
The credentialling of golfers
http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB992206849169968858.htm # #June 11, 2001 # #In Germany, Golfers Endure Tests Before Earning a License to #Drive # #By NEAL E. BOUDETTE Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL # #ST. LEON-ROT, Germany -- To play golf, you need practice, patience #and perseverance. # #To play golf in Germany, you might need a quick trip to Austria, #or a color photocopier. # #That's because the average duffer can't tee up in Germany without #a golf license, and getting one isn't a gimme. # #You have to pass driving, chipping and putting tests, and play #18 holes with no more than 108 strokes -- a stretch for a #beginner. The whole process, including lessons, can cost around #2,000 marks ($870). Then there is a quiz on the rules and #etiquette of golf. # #A written test? Tiger Woods laughed before playing in the #Deutsche Bank-SAP Open near Heidelberg, Germany, in late May. #The world's No. 1 player has made plenty of tough shots in his #career, but he said he has never had to master multiple-choice #questions about water hazards. That's why we have officials, #he said. # #A Need for Ripeness # #Golf has taken off in Germany in recent years, drawing many new #players who bristle at the idea of having to qualify for the #license, known as a Platzreife. The term, which combines the #German words for place and ripe, indicates that a player #is ripe enough to get a place on a German course. [snip]
Re: Automatic's
- Original Message - From: petro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:19 PM Subject: RE: Automatic's That *WILL* cause the target to collapse with anything over a .22LR, and if you get an eye will 100% guarenteed stop the fight (with that individual) now. Only one person has survived a shot (by a firearm) to the eye, and she's been on life support since she was hit by a .22. Where did this statistic come from? I find it fairly hard to believe Someone who is a member of the Wound Ballistics Association, a SWAT member and instructor. It's not hard to believe when you think about it, the skull in that area is trivially thin, so even a .22 can punch through the eye and get back to the important stuff. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Re:
An excellent recipe from Reese, though he is remarkably easy on the garlic. I would include an entire head of garlic. The meat dish described below should be eaten with Jerusalem artichokes mashed with butter and black pepper - some pureed suede (if you call them that - large, sweet, orange turnips) could be included for extra flavour. There should also be an a salad of traditional lettuce (not iceberg), hard-boiled eggs, black olives aubergines fried in olive oil (I think you Americans may call them eggplants), red onions, and a selection of different kinds of bean, dressed with garlic and wasabi beaten into real (i.e. made with olive oil and raw egg) mayonnaise. The drink *must* be Guinness and you must drink at least 4 pints of it. Reese missed out the delivery process, always important in chemical warfare. This is in fact a binary munition. The inert component consists of either a strong double espresso coffee and cigarettes, or else ordinary water. About 6 to 8 hours after the meal - earlier if you feel necessary - you visit the target location with the other components. Then just stand around sipping espresso and smoking. This of course is easier to achieve if the target is a cafe. If you have moral objections to smoking, a similar binary effect can be obtained by drinking 2 to 3 litres of cold water very fast. Ken Reese wrote: At 07:09 AM 6/9/01, John Yeomans wrote: Send me the instructions to make a stink bomb please Follow the recipe below, consume, and wait. Take: 4 lbs. ground beef (at least 80% lean) 3 16oz can dark red kidney beans 1 4.5oz can peeled chopped green chilies (Old El Paso or similar) 2 8oz can tomato sauce 2 6ox can tomato paste 1 large green bell pepper 1 medium white onion 3 11oz bag white corn tortilla chips, round style (Jays or similar) 2/3 to 1 cup chili powder (*) 4 tbsp masa flour (commonly used to make tortillas tamales, Quaker brand or similar) (*) 2-1/2 tbsp ground oregano (*) 1-1/2 tbsp paprika 1-1/2 tbsp ground red pepper (cayenne pepper) (*) 2 tbsp minced garlic 2 to 3 tsp salt, to taste (NOT tbsp!) NOTE 1) tbsp = tablespoon, tsp = teaspoon NOTE 2) ingredients marked (*) are also found in popular chili mixes, such as Carroll Shelby's Original Texas Brand Chili Mix or 2 Alarm Chili Mix. If using these mixes instead of separate ingredients, you will need two packages of mix to roughly equal the recommended amounts. NOTE 3) both tomato sauce and tomato paste are used in this recipe. This is due primarily to sugar content and really does affect the overall flavor. + Start heating 5 cups of water in a large pot over medium heat. Stir in salt and tomato sauce. DO NOT ALLOW TO BOIL! + Mix chopped onion bell pepper with green chilies, while stirring in frying pan over low heat for 10 minutes. Transfer to a bowl for later use. + Break up ground beef into small chunks (think of a good size for picking up with a tortilla chip), and place in covered frying pan to brown over medium heat. When half done, drain the grease. When done browning, drain any remaining grease, then stir in onion/pepper mixture from bowl. + While beef is browning, stir in all spices (but NOT masa flour) to liquid in pot, mix thoroughly. + When beef is browned, stir tomato sauce into liquid in pot, then add beef and stir very thoroughly. + Cover pot and allow to simmer over low heat for 1/2 hour, stirring every 10 minutes. + Stir in masa flour, and continue to simmer another 15 minutes. While simmering, drain liquid from beans. + Stir in beans, and continue to simmer another 15 minutes. + Serve immediately, with lots of tortilla chips for dipping (use instead of a spoon). A dark beer will help wash it down. If you would rather have soft drinks, Squirt or Fresca are excellent choices and their flavor complements the spices very nicely.
Bring a water-mister or aluminized umbrella to the next WTO fun.... (more on nonlethal radar weapon)
11 June 2001 Millimeter-wave energy to be used in a weapon By Peter Clarke EE Times June 6, 2001 (5:39 p.m. EST) LONDON Stories of the soldiers who operate the Arctic radar stations and stand in front of the transmitter to get warm will surely be repeated now that the U.S. Department of Defense has gone public with plans to use the heating effect of millimeter waves within a weapon. The U.S. Marine Corps says it has developed a 95-GHz system as an antipersonnel heat ray and is conducting tests on animals and volunteers. The supposedly nonlethal weapon, called active-denial technology, has been in the works for the last 10 years at the Air Force Research Laboratory (Kirtland, N.M.), in tandem with the Marine Corps' Joint Non-lethal Weapons Directorate. About $40 million has been spent developing the weapon, according to the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL), although it could be nearly another decade before it is used in conflict. The earliest estimate for deployment is 2009. The system includes a millimeter-wave energy source with waveguides to direct the energy to a dish antenna measuring about 3 x 3 meters, which forms a beam that can be swept across a battlefield or hostile crowd. The aim is to deter or drive off adversaries caught out in the open with a beam that inflicts pain without causing permanent damage. According to an AFRL fact sheet, the 95-GHz energy penetrates 1/64 inch into the skin and produces an intense burning sensation that stops when the transmitter is switched off or when the individual moves out of the beam. Top skin layer takes heat It works by heating the water molecules in the top 1/64-of-an-inch layer of the skin, said Marine Corps spokesman Maj. David Andersen. According to reports, a 2-second burst from the system can heat the skin to a temperature of 130° F. Elsewhere, the AFRL describes the sensation as similar to touching an ordinary light bulb that has been left on for a while. Unlike a light bulb, however, says the AFRL fact sheet, active-denial technology will not cause rapid burning, because of the shallow penetration of the beam and the low levels of energy used. Beam size, whether it is a convergent, focused beam or a divergent beam, and its range are all classified information. This is a beam that is going to be directed. It's not harmful to internal organs because it doesn't penetrate the skin beyond 1/64 of an inch, said Conrad Dziewulski, a spokesman for the directed-energy division of AFRL. It will be swept across the battlefield or directed at an individual for a few seconds. Dziewulski said the system was intended to protect military personnel against small-arms fire, which is generally taken to mean a range of 1,000 meters. Elsewhere, the system is described as having a range of 700 yards. While early tests have been carried out using a fixed antenna, the military now plans to develop a mobile version of the system, otherwise known as Vehicle Mounted Active Denial System, or Vmads. AFRL said Vmads could be mounted on a High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle
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Re: Automatic's
At 04:56 PM 6/10/01 -0700, petro wrote: A .300 Win Mag or .338 Laupa will do 1000 to 1500 yard hits just as well, in a smaller, cheaper, easier to handle package. The .300 Win Mag delivers about 3500 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. The .50 BMG delivers 13000 ft-lbs. You use a .300 Win Mag for killing people. You use a .50 BMG for taking out trucks and small structures. In other words, apples and oranges. Anything past 800 to 1000 yards is luck and voodoo anyway. I'm with David on this one. Maybe to me, but not to some. -- Riad Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105
The Chong-ster
http://www.writtenbyme.com/content/49232 # #Legalization of Marijuana 'High Priority' of Tommy Chong's #Presidential Bid in 2004 # #by wyoming farnsworth, 7th June 2001. # #Under Chong's vision, the Benevolent United Radical Party (BURP) #has adopted a political agenda that's considered 'extreme' even #by political extremists. At present, BURP has publicly committed, #through printing of its party agenda, to: # #Disband the United States of America in favor of #a less-is-more kinda country; # #Establish any and all Taco Bell restaurant food entrees as a #Fifth Food Group to the currently existing Four; # #Ban all 'country' but not 'western' music, along with #dismantling and burning at the stake all of the entire #Nashville record-producing community; # #Utilize the vast resources of the FBI, CIA, and the NSA to #locate the long-rumored-dead Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe, #and Buddy Holly; # #Motorize all grocery stores shopping carts; and # #Globally legalize, cultivate, and distribute marijuana. # #Yeah, Chong said, scratching his genitalia for several moments #as he ponders his party's future. I think the marijuana thing's #gonna be a bitch. You know? Like, can the U.S. make law for the #whole world? I think it can, and, if I get elected president, #you know, like, it'll happen. # #The Benevolent United Radical Party maintains its headquarters #in Tiujauna, Mexico, although for purposes of eluding taxation #they appear to have multiple HQ locations in Delaware, South #Dakota, Iowa, Wyoming, Georgia, and Oregon. # #Actually, what it is is a big f**king mobile home, Chong #explains. It's painted just like the f**king Partridge Family #bus, you know, with colorful squares and cubes and trapezoids #and shit. BURP goes wherever the wind blows, man. # #Like, that's what makes it magic, man.
SCOTUS rulz!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Scotus-Heat-Detector.html # #June 11, 2001 # #Court Rules Against Heat-Sensor Searches # #Filed at 11:03 a.m. ET # #WASHINGTON (AP) -- Police violate the Constitution if they use #a heat-sensing device to peer inside a home without a search #warrant, the Supreme Court ruled Monday. # #An unusual lineup of five justices voted to bolster the Fourth #Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and threw #out an Oregon man's conviction for growing marijuana. # #Monday's ruling reversed a lower court decision that said #officers' use of a heat-sensing device was not a search of Danny #Lee Kyllo's home and therefore they did not need a search warrant. # #In an opinion written by Justice Antonin Scalia, by many measures #the most conservative member of the court, the majority found #that the heat detector allowed police to see things they otherwise #could not. # #``Where, as here, the government uses a device that is not in #general public use to explore details of the home that would #previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the #surveillance is a 'search' and is presumptively unreasonable #without a warrant,'' Scalia wrote. # #While the court has previously approved some warrantless searches, #this one did not meet tests the court has previously set, Scalia #wrote. # #The decision means the information police gathered with the #thermal device -- namely a suspicious pattern of hot spots on #the home's exterior walls -- cannot be used against Kyllo. # #The court sent the case back to lower courts to determine whether #police have enough other basis to support the search warrant #that was eventually served on Kyllo, and thus whether any of #the evidence inside his home can be used against him. # #Justices Clarence Thomas, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg #and Stephen Breyer joined the majority. # #Justice John Paul Stevens wrote a dissenting opinion joined by #Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, and Justices Sandra Day #O'Connor and Anthony M. Kennedy.
ORBS sucked into a black hole!
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/06/08/orbs/print.html # #A spam cop goes AWOL # #The ORBS blacklist, a controversial tool for stopping unsolicited #e-mail, is suddenly inaccessible. # #- - - - - - - - - - - - # #By Damien Cave # #June 8, 2001 | Spam fighters all over the world have lost a #controversial weapon in the battle against unsolicited e-mail. #Since June 1, the Web site for ORBS -- the Open Relay Behavior #Modification System -- has been gutted. Visitors to the site #now find nothing more than a gray blank page and a simple message: #Due to circumstances beyond our control, the ORBS website is #no longer available. # #ORBS's main service was a blacklist of Internet mail servers #-- computers capable of routing mail across the Net -- that the #ORBS administrator, Alan Brown, had identified as potentially #capable of forwarding spam. Now that blacklist is no longer #available to network administrators, and they want to know why. #One popular theory mooted on the Net is that Brown closed down #the site rather than comply with a New Zealand court order #demanding that he remove two specific ISPs from the blacklist. #But Brown, who lives in New Zealand, is keeping silent. I am #unable to answer any of your questions, he writes in an e-mail. #Sorry. # #Even without an explanation, the demise of ORBS is significant, #stirring up, once again, an ongoing worldwide debate over how #best to administer the Internet and mediate the Net's intersection #of humanity and technology. Questions about ORBS's behavior always #centered on the problem of how to handle e-mail abuse. But more #generally, ORBS symbolized the ongoing struggle between the Net's #tendency to encourage individual freedom and the necessity of #combating anarchy. # #Ever since the Net moved beyond its roots as a small, open, #academic community, users have attempted to balance opposing #forces. Most favor the right to speak out, along with the right #to privacy; they rail against censorship, but at the same time #desperately seek the ability to censor unsolicited e-mail by #limiting spammers' access to their networks. # #ORBS supporters say the blacklist was a fully justified form #of preventive medicine. Brown saw his mission as identifying #every mail server on the Net that allowed open relays -- in #essence, that permitted the forwarding of mail from one point #on the Net to another without any restriction. Spammers love #open relays; they employ them to hide their identities and funnel #out massive amounts of e-mail for free. But at the same time #the open relays bog down the system for other customers. # #Brown used simple software agents and diagnostic probes to comb #the Internet, looking for mail servers configured for open #relaying. Whenever he found one, Brown would post the Internet #protocol (IP) address on his list -- even if the address had #never been used by a spammer. ISPs, systems administrators and #everyday citizens who configured their computers to block #addresses listed on ORBS could then close off a spammer's favorite #distribution tool even before the spammer knew it existed. # #More controversial, Brown also placed on his list servers that #blocked his probes, whether or not he could ascertain if they #had open relays. ORBS supporters say such a policy was the only #way to keep a flood of open-relay-capable servers from pumping #spam across the Net. The end, they argue, justified the means. # #The immediate impact of the ORBS shutdown could mean more spam, #says Michael LeFevre, a London technology company executive. #I've received four spams since ORBS went down last week, he #says. I only received two or three previous to that this year. # #But not everyone is sorry to see the site go. ORBS has plenty #of critics. ORBS wasn't just a useful technology, they say; it #was also a tool used by a specific person, Alan Brown, an #overzealous spam fighter who went too far. ORBS's own ISP pulled #the plug on Brown in 1998 after receiving complaints about the #way that Brown used probes to test servers for open relays. #Although another ISP agreed to host ORBS soon afterward, Brown's #detractors say that he never learned his lesson: He repeatedly #insisted that he had the right to test servers as often as he #wanted. # #Alan Brown created some nice technology -- nobody faults him #on that point, says Tom Geller, founder of Suespammers.org, #a nonprofit group that lobbies for strict spam legislation. But #he used it in an irresponsible way, invading others' private #networks and using others'
Re: Automatic's
At 10:16 AM 6/11/01 -0700, you wrote: Only one person has survived a shot (by a firearm) to the eye, and she's been on life support since she was hit by a .22. Where did this statistic come from? I find it fairly hard to believe Someone who is a member of the Wound Ballistics Association, a SWAT member and instructor. BFD!! SWAT members and instructers are no more reliable as a source for such information than anyone else. Very few will ever fire an on duty shot and fewer still will actually hit anyone. IWBA membership is available for any full time LEO and if I remember correctly, for just about anyone else who wants it bad enough to write a letter. Only one survivor of a gun shot to an eye is bullshit.
The credentialling of golfers
http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB992206849169968858.htm # #June 11, 2001 # #In Germany, Golfers Endure Tests Before Earning a License to #Drive # #By NEAL E. BOUDETTE Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL # #ST. LEON-ROT, Germany -- To play golf, you need practice, patience #and perseverance. # #To play golf in Germany, you might need a quick trip to Austria, #or a color photocopier. # #That's because the average duffer can't tee up in Germany without #a golf license, and getting one isn't a gimme. # #You have to pass driving, chipping and putting tests, and play #18 holes with no more than 108 strokes -- a stretch for a #beginner. The whole process, including lessons, can cost around #2,000 marks ($870). Then there is a quiz on the rules and #etiquette of golf. # #A written test? Tiger Woods laughed before playing in the #Deutsche Bank-SAP Open near Heidelberg, Germany, in late May. #The world's No. 1 player has made plenty of tough shots in his #career, but he said he has never had to master multiple-choice #questions about water hazards. That's why we have officials, #he said. # #A Need for Ripeness # #Golf has taken off in Germany in recent years, drawing many new #players who bristle at the idea of having to qualify for the #license, known as a Platzreife. The term, which combines the #German words for place and ripe, indicates that a player #is ripe enough to get a place on a German course. [snip]
Brit car video surveillance out of control
DAILY MAIL (London) June 11, 2001 LENGTH: 705 words A SPEED CAMERA ON EVERY CORNER DAILY MAIL (London) June 12, 2001 POLICE WILL ISSUE UP TO TEN MILLION TICKETS A YEAR IN A MASSIVE CLAMPDOWN ON SPEEDING MOTORISTS. WITH THE NUMBER OF SPEED CAMERAS EXPECTED TO TREBLE, THERE WILL be no escape from the prying electronic eyes. For the police, it will mean a gold-mine in fines thanks to the decision to allow forces to keep money raised from fixed penalties. Until now, many of the 4,300 cameras across the country have been ineffective because police cannot afford to stock or process the film. But the potential to raise revenue has given them a powerful incentive to extend and improve the network. This means any driver 'flashed' by a camera will now almost certainly face a fine. The speeding clampdown comes as the latest crime figures show a year-on-year rise of 2.5 per cent in violent offences including murder, rape and muggings. Yesterday, motoring groups claimed the blitz would undermine public confidence in police priorities. As well as alienating drivers already burdened by high fuel taxes and rising crime, more cameras would never be as effective as patrol cars in preventing truly dangerous driving, they said. Police, however, are delighted with the prospect of more cameras on the roads. Some areas involved in trial schemes have seen 25-fold increases in the number of tickets issued to drivers. If these results are reflected across the country, the number of penalties issued via roadside cameras could soar from 550,000 in 1999 to more than ten million. North Wales chief constable Richard Brun-strom, who leads the Association of Chief Police Officers' traffic technology committee is keen to see more cameras on the roads. 'Speed cameras make a major contribution to road safety and this legislation means motorists can expect to see at least a tripling in the numbers on Britain's roads,' he said. Under new Home Office rules, money raised by fines will no longer go straight to the Treasury. Instead, police will be allowed to keep fixed penalty revenue above a 'baseline' figure. Almost all the 43 forces in England and Wales are submitting business plans to the Government to show how they will use the extra money. The standard penalty increased last year from GBP 40 to GBP 60, and m Edmund King of the RAC Foundation said: 'The danger is that speed cameras actually lead to our roads being under-policed. 'With an over-reliance on speed cameras, forces have been cutting back on traffic police. 'In some areas there is little or no chance of being stopped for dangerous or careless driving, which is often more dangerous than speeding. 'Only around a third of accidents are blamed on speed. 'Cameras don't pick up on drivers tailgating the car in front, or swerving between lanes. 'Home Office research revealed a 60 per cent chance of dangerous drivers having committed other criminal offences. 'Those stopped may have burgled goods in the car, for example. Cameras won't clear up any of those other crimes. 'We are already seeing cameras being extended beyond accident blackspots to straight stretches of rural road in places like Oxfordshire. 'If that trend continues there is the danger we will see speed cameras on every bend in every trunk road. 'We don't believe that is something motorists want to see, and nor do we.' Yesterday, Home Secretary David Blunkett signalled his determination not to let the new financial rules distract police from their core purpose of fighting crime. A source close to Mr Blunkett said: 'Road safety is important, but we don't want to see manpower diverted to running speed cameras. 'The cameras are a valuable tool but we have to strike a balance.'
Crypto Survey May 2001 by Markku J. Saarelainen (fwd)
-- ...where annual election ends, tyranny begins; Thomas Jefferson Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:04:37 -0700 From: Markku Saarelainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Crypto Survey May 2001 by Markku J. Saarelainen CRYPTO SURVEY MAY 2001 Cryptographic Survey, May 2001, Markku J. Saarelainen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A SUMMARY CONCLUSION: The major societal development since the 1st and 2nd crypto surveys in 1996 and 1997 has been the removal of many regulatory barriers for open trading of cryptographic products in the North America and globally. In addition, the number of cryptographic applications and component implementations has increased, while at the same time the variety of different types of solutions has risen. This does not necessarily mean the wider use of encryption in businesses and personal activities. Many same or similar behavioral barriers for the effective utilization of many security solutions still exist limiting the protection of communications, data storage and networking. In addition, the lack of the interoperability between solutions from different suppliers tends to decrease the number of effective cryptography users worldwide. It is clear that the awareness for encrypted communication and protected information activities has increased, while necessary regulatory changes for protectin! g ! entities from security vulnerabilities has enabled cryptographic product suppliers to satisfy market requirements in the U.S.A., in the North America and globally. However, regulatory and cultural differences exist from one nation or region to another creating a global unbalanced situation of the security use, which has the reducing effect on security practices and policy implementations of any global entity in different regions. This impacts on the interoperability of units of global entities. It is likely that there shall be greater competing drives in the information technology market place between different security strategies and approaches from different software and hardware product and security suppliers. QUESTION 1. In your opinion, what are the 5-10 most significant applications of encryption technologies currently in commercial enterprises? 1. HTTP over SSL (aka HTTPS) / SSL for credit card processing / SSL / Web-activity privacy (SSL) 2. IPsec 3. RSA Secure ID (maybe) 4. Online Credit Card Processing Financial Transfers 5. VPNs / Virtual Private Networks for widely distributed offices / VPN for remote access to Intranet 6. Email encryption (via PGP/GPG or SMIME) / Encrypted Messages / Email Privacy 7. Digital signing authentication of messages 8. Consensus and voting software (not now but give it 5 years) 9. Encrypted file systems for sensitive data 10. Signing software for installation 11. Signing email messages to show official authority 12. Wireless local area network encryption 13. Password protection/access control 14. Data protection 15. Session protection (VPN's) 16. Authentication and authorization / Customer authentication (e.g. PIN checking) 17. Securing B2B file exchange 18. PKI 19. Remote secure teleworking 20. Digital signatures 21. Time-stamping QUESTION 2. In your opinion, what are 5-10 main barriers currently that may prevent the successful implementation and utilization of encryption technologies in commercial enterprises? 1. Ignorance of risks prevents purchase 2. Dishonest portrayal of product (i.e.: false security claims and blatant product holes in end-to-end protection) promotes distrust in the whole industry 3. Most products are a waste of time because they are not a comprehensive solution - e.g.: why bother using PGP when there is nothing in any NAI products to protect against back-office-style electronic eavesdropping attacks? 4. Many people do not care about cryptography and/or security products 5. Having lived happily without serious protection for a long while, most customers believe there is no point retrofitting an expensive solution for a problem they do not have (and many of them are probably right...) 6. Lack of knowledge by decision-maker 7. Low
Statement from McVeigh's Attorney
Statement of Robert Nigh, attorney, on the occasion of the execution of his client, Timothy McVeigh. - At 7 a.m. this morning, we killed Tim McVeigh, the person responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. But we did much more than that. We also killed Sergeant McVeigh, the young man who joined the Army because he wanted to serve his country; the young soldier that was so dedicated to his duty that he became the top gunner in this battalion of 100. He was the young man who took up arms on his country's behalf and traveled half-way across the world to meet and engage our enemy. He placed his own life in jeopardy because we asked him to and because he thought it was his duty to do so. His actions were of such character that he was awarded the Bronze Star with designation of valor. But much more importantly than any of that, what we did this morning was to kill Tim McVeigh, friend to Bob Popovic, Allen Smith and Elizabeth McDermott. We killed Bill and Mickey's son this morning. And we killed Jennifer McVeigh's big brother. Of course, we can say that it was Tim himself that caused their pain. And we would be half-right. But it would be a lie to say that we did not double their pain and that we are not responsible, because there is a reasonable way to deal with crime that doesn't involve killing another human being. Although we might not express it in these terms because we know better, we might say that these people are simply collateral damage, but we know too well that there is no such thing as collateral damage. There are only real people with faces and names and loved ones who may never heal because of our actions, and that is true whether their grief was inflicted by Tim McVeigh or by federal law enforcement or by us collectively. To the survivors in Oklahoma City who have had the courage to come out against capital punish in spite of the tremendous pain that they have suffered, I say thank you. To the victims in Oklahoma City, I say that I am sorry that I could not successfully help Tim to express words of reconciliation that he did not perceive to be dishonest. I do not fault them at all for looking forward to this day or for taking some sense of relief from it. But if killing Tim McVeigh does not bring peace or closure to them, I suggest to you that it is our fault. We have told them that we would help them heal their wounds in this way. We have taken it upon ourselves to promise to extract vengeance for them. We have made killing a part of the healing process. In order to do that we use such terms as reasoned moral response, but I submit there's nothing reasonable or moral about what we have done today. That is true when killing a human being even means killing Tim McVeigh. There was a time when we recognized this in our country. In 1972, the Supreme Court of the United States struck down the death penalty as it existed at the time. In its concurring opinion in Furman v. Georgia, Justice Marshall wrote, ''The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in time of crisis. ''This is a country that stands tallest in troubled times; a country that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional heritage and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values that lie at the roots of our democratic system. In striking down capital punishment, this court does not malign our system of government; on the contrary, it pays homage to it. In recognizing the humanity of our fellow beings, we pay ourselves the highest tribute. We achieve a major milestone in the long road from barbarism and join the approximately 70 other jurisdictions in the world which celebrate their regard for civilization and humanity by shunning capital punishment.'' There has been a movement in the states to celebrate the dignity of human life and to start a moratorium on executions. It did not come soon enough for Tim McVeigh, but it can come soon enough for others. Where we go from here is a question of critical importance. I have told you, honestly, that Tim cared for people. And some of the people he cared deepest about were his brothers on the federal death row. Even Tim recognized that our claims that we are not racially biased are false. If we believe that, then we ignore the reality that 18 of the 20 men behind me on the federal death row in Terre Haute are persons of color. Fully 90 percent belong to a minority. If we do not acknowledge that, we are lying to ourselves about what we are doing. We are killing the poor and the minority and people that we believe to be different and lesser than ourselves. Even in Tim McVeigh's case, to which the racial disparity doesn't apply, we were incapable of inflicting the death penalty in a fair manner. The FBI could not participate in the prosecution without breaching its obligation to turn over the witness statements. This must make us realize that we are too fallible, we are simply too
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Re: Interesting web site
Is this going to somehow exhume him and make him live again? Fuckwit. On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have found a good site that proves that there indeed was a cover-up regarding Vince Foster's death. You can visit it at http://www.fbicover-up.com or a href=http://www.fbicover-up.com;click here/a (if html-mail enabled). -- Galt's sci-fi paradox: Stormtroopers versus Redshirts to the death. Who is John Galt? [EMAIL PROTECTED], that's who!
nailing them to the cross
Morales and I are going do it to these creeps. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/ http://members.tripod.com/bill_3_2/ http://www.nmol.com/users/billp/ ptl, allahu akhbar, etc Thanks for your help!
Re: Pap Smear
Hi, the message sent to the police says: This is Antipedo2001. I have found a PC with known child pornography files on the hard drive. I have included a listing below and included a sample for your convenience. ... While law enforcement agencies cannot search an individual's computer without a warrant, they can act on a tip. The F.B.I., one of the agencies on the Noped list, would not say if it had received tips from this virus program. A Justice Department lawyer said that law enforcement officials could legally conduct a search based on the tip, but added, That's a very different question from `would law enforcement ever open an investigation based on that information?' Perhaps most troubling, legal experts say, is the havoc that the virus could wreak on the reputation of people with no involvement in child pornography. I realize I'm somewhat naive in that I expect things to make sense, but isn't this just utterly nuts? I mean, imagine an LEO gets an anonymous tip saying. I broke into this guy's house and found child porn there. Check out the house and, sure enough, the window has been broken into, and right by the broken window is a pile of child porn. Wouldn't ANY sensible person conclude that more likely than not it was planted there? By the way, has this JD lawyer ever READ the constitution? The 4th clearly states and I quote no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause SUPPORTED BY OATH OR AFFIRMATION. (emphasis mine). Clearly computer generated spam doesn't meet this criterion. George BTW,
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Re: ORBS sucked into a black hole!
I see I was unclear. I never said ORBS is an *accurate* reputation-publishing tool. I have never said it was entirely focused on spammers. I have never said I uncritically accept it or use it on the machines for which I am responsible.* But it is, nevertheless, beyond question that ORBS and its progeny allow their operators to broadcast their views about what they think about some certain network addresses or domains. If they go too far and are too zealous, the market will move toward a better solution. Like I said, very cypherpunkly. -Declan * In fact, I wrote earlier this year: Slashdot ran a thought-provoking piece not so long ago about how anti-spam measures (that I have long endorsed) like the RBL and its progeny are moving from blackholing spammers to blackholing sites with software that *could be used* to spam. While that's a private activity, it's treading the same path that Rep. Bob Goodlatteis with his plan to criminalize software that could be used to send bulk messages. At least the RBL is limited by market pressures: If it goes too far, ISPs will stop using it. But while free markets are the best way we've found yet to order society, they're hardly perfect, and RBL could overreact and restrict some folks who are undeserving in the interim. On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 09:28:56PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: ORBS is a reputation-publishing tool. Total Bullshit. None of my domains have *ever* had a single spamming incident, yet we were on their list. I guess our reputation was that we were *potential* spammers? Fuck ORBS. -Declan -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
Re: SCOTUS rulz! (fwd)
Yes, there's that Scalia, the well-known pinko commie. -Declan On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 07:44:27PM -0700, atek3 wrote: what a frigging nightmare, when the only people standing in the way of a wholesale rape of our civil liberties are leftists. atek3 - Original Message - From: Jim Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Club Inferno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: SCOTUS rulz! (fwd) Where did that scum bag Scalia get the 'in general public use' test? Geez, these guys make it up as they go along... -- Forwarded message -- Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:25:19 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CDR: SCOTUS rulz! http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Scotus-Heat-Detector.html # #June 11, 2001 # #Court Rules Against Heat-Sensor Searches # #Filed at 11:03 a.m. ET # #WASHINGTON (AP) -- Police violate the Constitution if they use #a heat-sensing device to peer inside a home without a search #warrant, the Supreme Court ruled Monday. # #An unusual lineup of five justices voted to bolster the Fourth #Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and threw #out an Oregon man's conviction for growing marijuana. # #Monday's ruling reversed a lower court decision that said #officers' use of a heat-sensing device was not a search of Danny #Lee Kyllo's home and therefore they did not need a search warrant. # #In an opinion written by Justice Antonin Scalia, by many measures #the most conservative member of the court, the majority found #that the heat detector allowed police to see things they otherwise #could not. # #``Where, as here, the government uses a device that is not in #general public use to explore details of the home that would #previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the #surveillance is a 'search' and is presumptively unreasonable #without a warrant,'' Scalia wrote. # #While the court has previously approved some warrantless searches, #this one did not meet tests the court has previously set, Scalia #wrote. # #The decision means the information police gathered with the #thermal device -- namely a suspicious pattern of hot spots on #the home's exterior walls -- cannot be used against Kyllo. # #The court sent the case back to lower courts to determine whether #police have enough other basis to support the search warrant #that was eventually served on Kyllo, and thus whether any of #the evidence inside his home can be used against him. # #Justices Clarence Thomas, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg #and Stephen Breyer joined the majority. # #Justice John Paul Stevens wrote a dissenting opinion joined by #Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, and Justices Sandra Day #O'Connor and Anthony M. Kennedy. -- ...where annual election ends, tyranny begins; Thomas Jefferson Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
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