[css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Ian Young
Moving on from yesterday's vertical align div, I have set up code to
vertically align images in a wrapping div.

That's fine. However, images which are larger than the div and which
normally would be controlled by overflow:hidden, now spill over.

Any thoughts?

 

http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/whitehousestudios/aerial.html

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

 

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Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Ian Young wrote:
 Moving on from yesterday's vertical align div, I have set up code to 
 vertically align images in a wrapping div.
 
 That's fine. However, images which are larger than the div and which 
 normally would be controlled by overflow:hidden, now spill over.

They don't spill over - they expand the table-cell just as in an
ordinary HTML table.
That's how a CSS table cells is supposed to behave - it replicates its
HTML counterpart, and you can't prevent it by declaring 'overflow:
hidden' since the cell expands _before_ hiding any overflow.

 http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/whitehousestudios/aerial.html
 
You have two options:

1: set a max-height and max-width on the image and let browsers scale
over-sized ones down to a suitable size for your layout.

2: wrap a container of suitable size around the image and hide the
overflow on that. You will of course lose vertical alignment of the
image then.

I often use option 1: - regardless of whether images are in a
'table-cell' or not, which works everywhere but in IE6. However IE6
doesn't understand CSS table so one can hide the overflow in that old
bugger.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Ian Young
 
  Moving on from yesterday's vertical align div, I have set up code to
  vertically align images in a wrapping div.
 
  That's fine. However, images which are larger than the div and which
  normally would be controlled by overflow:hidden, now spill over.
 
  Any thoughts?
 
  http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/whitehousestudios/aerial.html
 
 
 #picWrapper {table-layout:fixed;}
 ought to work in decent browsers
 

Hi Philippe

That fixes the overflow, but the cell now shrinks to size of image, which is
not what we want.
The div is 700x500 with images in centre.

I have made changes so you can see what I mean.
 

Cheers

Ian


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Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Ian Young
 -Original Message-
 From: Gunlaug Sørtun [mailto:gunla...@c2i.net]
 Sent: 03 March 2009 11:41
 To: Ian Young
 Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
 Subject: Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table
 
 Ian Young wrote:
  Moving on from yesterday's vertical align div, I have set up code to
  vertically align images in a wrapping div.
 
  That's fine. However, images which are larger than the div and which
  normally would be controlled by overflow:hidden, now spill over.
 
 1: set a max-height and max-width on the image and let browsers scale
 over-sized ones down to a suitable size for your layout.
 
 2: wrap a container of suitable size around the image and hide the
 overflow on that. You will of course lose vertical alignment of the
 image then.
 
 I often use option 1: - regardless of whether images are in a
 'table-cell' or not, which works everywhere but in IE6. However IE6
 doesn't understand CSS table so one can hide the overflow in that old
 bugger.

I have gone for option1 and it seems to work fine, so that will do nicely.

Thanks Georg.

Ian

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Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Ian Young wrote:

 Moving on from yesterday's vertical align div, I have set up code to
 vertically align images in a wrapping div.

 That's fine. However, images which are larger than the div and which
 normally would be controlled by overflow:hidden, now spill over.

 Any thoughts?

 http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/whitehousestudios/aerial.html


#picWrapper {table-layout:fixed;}
ought to work in decent browsers

remember that width on table [*] / table-cell is more akin to min- 
width than width.
[*] table with table-layout:auto, the default. The width of the cell  
and table ultimately depends on the width of the contents of the cell.

Note also that margins don't have any effect on elements with display:  
table-cell. You can eventually use the border-spacing property.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#propdef-margin

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] overflow:hidden and display:table

2009-03-03 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:49 PM, Ian Young wrote:

 That fixes the overflow, but the cell now shrinks to size of image,  
 which is
 not what we want.

No, the cell doesn't shrink. Except maybe sometimes in Firefox 3. I'm  
not sure why. I think it is a timing issue somehow. Those pages are  
terribly slow to load over here.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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[css-d] Best use of html and css

2009-03-03 Thread Sarah Atkinson
³There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it
so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to
make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first
method is far more difficult.² -C.A.R. Hoare

I love this quote and think about it when building websites(he¹s right the
first is harder) 

I would just like to know how you feel about the best use of html and css
after all they are two different things that can¹t realy work without the
other.

Any suggestions on not making a new design two complicated?

The one I am trying to work on now. I am starting just with the html.
Afterwards I will add the classes and css to make it look nice. I don¹t know
how well it will work but I figured I¹d give it a try.

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Re: [css-d] Best use of html and css

2009-03-03 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Sarah Atkinson wrote:

 I would just like to know how you feel about the best use of html and
 css after all they are two different things that can¹t realy work
 without the other.

HTML should work just fine without CSS, just not provide the rich
appearance.

 Any suggestions on not making a new design two complicated?

One method is based on making sure it comes through as intended in a
browser like Lynx - no CSS, script or image support. Works fine for me,
but I usually let Opera emulate Lynx.

Now and then I check the outcome in Lynxview, like so...
http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunlaug.no%2Fmain-en.html
...just to make sure I haven't missed anything really important.
Other times I fire up the real Lynx on windows or Mac, and run more
thorough checks.

 The one I am trying to work on now. I am starting just with the html.
 
Way to go :-)

 Afterwards I will add the classes and css to make it look nice. I
 don¹t know how well it will work but I figured I¹d give it a try.

Try how far you can get with styling through element-type selectors
only, without adding IDs or classes. Those IDs and classes are often
best reserved for cases where styling through element-types becomes
impossible, and where you need script-hooks and in-page link addresses.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Site check: List Item menu in different browsers

2009-03-03 Thread scott.blanchard
My site is located here: http://www.eco-tune.net
http://www.eco-tune.net/ 

 

The menu at the top should look like it does in this image:

http://www.eco-tune.net/images/menu.jpg

 

As you can see from the image, their should be a 1 pixel white separator
between the top menu and the submenu beneath it.

 

I've tested it in Chrome, Firefox 3 and IE 7 from my work PC and it
looks perfect (just like in the picture above). However, from home,
there is a wider gap between the two menus when viewed in these same
browsers. My text size is the same in all browsers (default: medium).

 

Any ideas what's happening?

 

 

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Re: [css-d] Site check: List Item menu in different browsers

2009-03-03 Thread designer
Hi Scott,

It seems to be a function of text size. It works at some settings (small), 
but falls apart as you enlarge.  Your text height is set in ems, whereas 
your margins etc are in pixels.

HTH,

Bob


- Original Message - 
From: scott.blanch...@sungard.com
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: [css-d] Site check: List Item menu in different browsers



 My site is located here: http://www.eco-tune.net
 http://www.eco-tune.net/



 The menu at the top should look like it does in this image:

 http://www.eco-tune.net/images/menu.jpg



 As you can see from the image, their should be a 1 pixel white separator
 between the top menu and the submenu beneath it.



 I've tested it in Chrome, Firefox 3 and IE 7 from my work PC and it
 looks perfect (just like in the picture above). However, from home,
 there is a wider gap between the two menus when viewed in these same
 browsers. My text size is the same in all browsers (default: medium).



 Any ideas what's happening?





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 Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

 


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[css-d] Problem with extra white space appearing

2009-03-03 Thread Joe Polk
Thanks in advance for your consideration and help regarding this issue. I
helped my client purchase and implement a web site template for their new
business. Unfortunately, there is a problem with part of the CSS which
pushes out the content area of the site past the width that it is supposed
to go.

The web site is under development at http://www159.pair.com/ngllc/

As you will see, there is extra white space that pushes out the content of
every page. I've taken a look at the CSS and noticed that if I remove the
background:#fff; from this -- .content{ width:700px;background:#fff;} --
the proper width is maintained but i have a completely black background for
the content area. This pushing happens regardless of any color that I use.

Does anyone know how I can modify the stylesheet so that I can have the
white background in the content area, but have it not push out?

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance with this issue!
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Re: [css-d] Site check: List Item menu in different browsers

2009-03-03 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
scott.blanch...@sungard.com wrote:

 http://www.eco-tune.net/
 
 The menu at the top should look like it does in this image:
 
 http://www.eco-tune.net/images/menu.jpg

You're positioning the wrong way round for such a construction, which
makes it weak for the slightest changes in browser-environment,
resolution, font resizing etc.

I think you want it more like this...
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/sb/test_09_0303.html
...where the gap is pretty stable under stress. The rest of the
header/nav layout can't take much though.

Changes are:

.header {height: 142px;}
.header .subnav {top: 100%; bottom: auto;}
.header #nav {bottom: 6px;}

...which effectively turns positioning of .subnav upside down and
preserves the gap.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Problem with extra white space appearing

2009-03-03 Thread Els
Joe Polk wrote:

 Thanks in advance for your consideration and help regarding this
 issue. I helped my client purchase and implement a web site
 template for their new business. Unfortunately, there is a problem
 with part of the CSS which pushes out the content area of the
 site past the width that it is supposed to go.

 The web site is under development at http://www159.pair.com/ngllc/

 As you will see, there is extra white space that pushes out the
 content of every page. I've taken a look at the CSS and noticed
 that if I remove the background:#fff; from this -- .content{
 width:700px;background:#fff;} -- the proper width is maintained but
 i have a completely black background for the content area. This
 pushing happens regardless of any color that I use.

No, the proper width is not maintained if you take off the background 
colour. It is just not visible that it sticks out then.
Also, this problem doesn't happen in Firefox, but only in IE.

 Does anyone know how I can modify the stylesheet so that I can have
 the white background in the content area, but have it not push out?

I don't have time to take a copy to test locally, but my guess is that 
if you take out the first line at the top of the document, the ?xml 
line, thins might just fall back into place for IE. Anything that 
comes before the doctype, throws IE into quirksmode, where it 
calculates margins and widths entirely different than in standards 
mode.

Another thing I found: the td that holds the content, has a width 
set of 640px. Yet, inside it, is another table with 3 tds, with a 
width of 241px each.
That just cannot officially fit :-)

-- 
Els

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Re: [css-d] Problem with extra white space appearing

2009-03-03 Thread Ib Jensen
2009/3/3 Joe Polk josephp...@gmail.com:
 Thanks in advance for your consideration and help regarding this issue. I
 helped my client purchase and implement a web site template for their new
 business. Unfortunately, there is a problem with part of the CSS which
 pushes out the content area of the site past the width that it is supposed
 to go.

 The web site is under development at http://www159.pair.com/ngllc/


Try validating the page.

My Tidy says:

Result: 0 errorsl / 14 advarsler = Warnings

line 17 column 56 - Advarsel: img element not empty or not closed
line 44 column 1 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 44 column 5 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 46 column 1 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 46 column 5 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 49 column 34 - Advarsel: a unexpected or duplicate quote mark
line 64 column 17 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 76 column 18 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 78 column 17 - Advarsel: discarding unexpected /ul
line 90 column 17 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 107 column 59 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 107 column 118 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 108 column 67 - Advarsel: br element not empty or not closed
line 48 column 15 - Advarsel: trimming empty p
Info: Doctype given is -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN
Info: Document content looks like XHTML 1.0 Transitional






-- 
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] Problem with extra white space appearing

2009-03-03 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Joe Polk wrote:

 The web site is under development at http://www159.pair.com/ngllc/

 Does anyone know how I can modify the stylesheet so that I can have
 the white background in the content area, but have it not push out?

Add...

table { table-layout: fixed;}

...to prevent expansion beyond declared width.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] CSS3

2009-03-03 Thread Atkinson, Sarah
Does anyone know when Browsers will start supporting CSS3?

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Re: [css-d] CSS3

2009-03-03 Thread Jack Timmons
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Atkinson, Sarah 
sarah.atkin...@cookmedical.com wrote:

 Does anyone know when Browsers will start supporting CSS3?


Define Start supporting CSS3?

Most of the major browsers do. Not sure about IE8, but FF, Safari, and
Opera support some CSS3 standards. They don't even support CSS2 fully, but I
think most of them are just about there. Opera may have all of CSS2, I
haven't checked in so long.

With CSS, it isn't a do they support CSS or not, its do they support the
elements I plan on using or not.

Chart gratis from PPK

http://www.quirksmode.org/css/contents.html

-- 
-Jack Timmons
http://www.trotlc.com
Twitter: @jorachim
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Re: [css-d] CSS3

2009-03-03 Thread Jack Timmons
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Jack Timmons jorac...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Atkinson, Sarah 
 sarah.atkin...@cookmedical.com wrote:

 Does anyone know when Browsers will start supporting CSS3?



Also:

http://www.css3.info


-- 
-Jack Timmons
http://www.trotlc.com
Twitter: @jorachim
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Re: [css-d] CSS3

2009-03-03 Thread Ankeet P
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Atkinson, Sarah
sarah.atkin...@cookmedical.com wrote:
 Does anyone know when Browsers will start supporting CSS3?

Perhaps the question should be when will CSS3 be officially
recommended? Or when browsers start conforming to more of the
standards (i.e. border-radius instead of -moz-border-radius and its
webkit variation)?
--Ankeet [ http://www.skyisturningred.com/ ]
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[css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Michał Zieliński
I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a try 
in my upcoming project.
How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser 
installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3)
Can I test it on this machine only or I should also take under 
consideration things like monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc.


I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By 
the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to
explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next 
monitor it is 12px.


Thanks.

Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in 
html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain.



Regards,
Mike
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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Ed Seedhouse
2009/3/3 Michał Zieliński zie...@gmail.com:

 I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By the
 same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to
 explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor
 it is 12px.

Sorry, this is something under control of the user and his browser.
Any font sizes you set are only suggestions and there is nothing you
can do to change this.  If I set the minimum font size to 30px in my
copy of Firefox then the smallest font  your page shows on my browser
will be at 30px for me whether you like it or not.

Wise web designers keep this in mind when designing.  I think,
personally, that a design that breaks when the user sets his own font
size is simply a broken design.  Alas, that includes all too many of
them.  :-(

But trying to get control of what cannot be controlled is a sure
recipe for endless frustration.
-- 
Ed Seedhouse
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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Ian Young
 -Original Message-
 From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org [mailto:css-d-
 boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Michal Zielinski
 Sent: 03 March 2009 21:21
 To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
 Subject: [css-d] em units - how to test
 
 I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a try
 in my upcoming project.
 How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser
 installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3) Can I test it on this
 machine only or I should also take under consideration things like
 monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc.
 
 I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By
 the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to explain
 people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor it
 is 12px.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in
 html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain.


I suspect this one will generate a lot of flak.

Last item first. Why counter the browser defaults?

Leave font-size as 100% and then use % for font-size of your other elements. 
Have a thought for the visually impaired, please.
What you are saying is illogical in any event. Font-size defined by em or % 
will only be different if the user decides that he/she needs to increase size 
of the default browser settings. Web design is different from the print 
environment and too many folks seem to forget that. We get too hung up on 
browsers being pixel perfect. Let's face it the only folks who look at more 
than one browsers are we developers.

Rant over.

Ian

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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Michał Zieliński wrote:
 I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a 
 try in my upcoming project.

Good. Ems, percentage = relative font sizes = can be easily resized even
in IE.

 How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser
  installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3)

The more the better, as each has its own page/font resize options that
can/will affect rendering of your creations...
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_37.html
You should know about, and test to destruction with, all these options.

 Can I test it on this machine only or I should also take under 
 consideration things like monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc.

If you have gone through destruction tests on the one machine you have,
and made sure your creations can take at least 200% font resizing _and_
page resizing, then one machine, dpi should tell you enough about your
creations' survivability on larger screens well into the future.

Small screens on small devices - mobiles and such, is a different
matter, but you can find simulators/emulators for some of the many
variables on the web.

 I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. 
 By the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to 
 explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next 
 monitor it is 12px.

You shouldn't have to explain anything to anyone. Screen resolutions,
browser options and other factors will have a larger spread in the
future, so your creations, with font size and all, will be rendered in
all shapes and sizes and in ways you will have little to no control over.

 Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in
  html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain.

That's a dysfunctional and obsolete font-size base method by any measure.
Besides: you are probably mixing the old size relative to 10px which
ignores changes in screen resolution away from 96dpi, with the equally
old em font-resizing bug in IE5 ‑ IE7...
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_13.html

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread david
Michał Zieliński wrote:

 Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in 
 html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain.

Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever 
that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern 
browser short of making he page one big image.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Keith DiSarno

 Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever
 that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern
 browser short of making he page one big image.


Don't them any ideas!   :-)


- Keith
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Re: [css-d] css-d Digest, Vol 76, Issue 3

2009-03-03 Thread peter . twiggs

I am currently out of the office and will return on Monday the 9th of March.
If you have any urgent queries please contact Steve Lee on 0113 391 2929.

Regards
Peter


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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread Ankeet P
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Keith DiSarno kdisa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever
 that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern
 browser short of making he page one big image.


 Don't them any ideas!   :-)


 - Keith

A lot of browsers support resizing everything on a page, including the
images. ;-)

But at least resizing this way, or even with setting font sizes and
using a good layout model, prevents the layout from breaking on
resize. (Most of the time.)

--Ankeet [ http://www.skyisturningred.com/ ]
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Re: [css-d] em units - how to test

2009-03-03 Thread david
Ankeet P wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Keith DiSarno kdisa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever
 that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern
 browser short of making he page one big image.

 Don't them any ideas!   :-)


 - Keith
 
 A lot of browsers support resizing everything on a page, including the
 images. ;-)
 
 But at least resizing this way, or even with setting font sizes and
 using a good layout model, prevents the layout from breaking on
 resize. (Most of the time.)

The ability to resize an image of text doesn't necessarily make it any 
more readable ...

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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[css-d] Semantic UL Class Name

2009-03-03 Thread Brian Hazelton

Hi,
I have a site that I have been making very semantic and css based but I
have a problem. I want to create a class that removes the bullets from
an unordered list that I can use on multiple lists. What class name
would you give it since it will be applied to multiple ul's, each
contains different information. The site, in case you want to dig deeper
is http://www.danville302.org

Thanks,
Brian Hazelton

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