Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations
I will just throw this out there for choice not for promotion. The framework I got my little experience from was twitter bootsrap. It does have a slight learning curve, but I had to dive head first on a project and learn on the fly with it. I only had 4 weeks to do the project too and I survived. (I am a css novice fyi) I found it easier to work with the more I tinkered with it. http://getbootstrap.com Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:12 AM, admin ad...@dimdima.com wrote: Sir, I use the Foundation Framework. You can have the complete details from their website: http://foundation.zurb.com/ Regards Vidya On 10/8/2014 10:45 PM, Philip Taylor wrote: Crest Christopher wrote: Did you use a frame work, and if so what frame work ? Since it links to Foundation.css, possibly this one : http://foundation.zurb.com/ Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations
Just found this too. http://thisisdallas.github.io/Simple-Grid/ Its a grid. not a framework. no bloat. Might be exactly what you need. :) Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com On Oct 9, 2014, at 1:00 AM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: I will just throw this out there for choice not for promotion. The framework I got my little experience from was twitter bootsrap. It does have a slight learning curve, but I had to dive head first on a project and learn on the fly with it. I only had 4 weeks to do the project too and I survived. (I am a css novice fyi) I found it easier to work with the more I tinkered with it. http://getbootstrap.com Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:12 AM, admin ad...@dimdima.com wrote: Sir, I use the Foundation Framework. You can have the complete details from their website: http://foundation.zurb.com/ Regards Vidya On 10/8/2014 10:45 PM, Philip Taylor wrote: Crest Christopher wrote: Did you use a frame work, and if so what frame work ? Since it links to Foundation.css, possibly this one : http://foundation.zurb.com/ Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations
okt 9 2014 08:03 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com: Just found this too. http://thisisdallas.github.io/Simple-Grid/ Its a grid. not a framework. no bloat. Might be exactly what you need. :) Well, it got my attention so must be good then! I haven’t got the time to investigate it right now, but it seems like a very down to earth illustration of what grids are and how they can be a part of your own framework. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Dropdown menu not working on Safari
I’m building an HTML website (which can be seen here: http://ansechastanet.com/beta/default.html) but I am having an issue with the drop down menus when viewed on Safari. On Firefox, Chrome, and all other browsers, the drop down menu works fine however on Safari, for some reason the drop down menu displays behind the slider and is therefore unclickable and can’t even be seen. I can’t seem to find a fix for this, do you know of anything that could work? Thanks for the help, Yasha __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Dropdown menu not working on Safari
Howdy Yasha,
~~~
Thursday, October 9, 2014, 11:20:58 AM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.
My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~
On Firefox, Chrome, and all other browsers, the drop down menu works fine
however on Safari, for some reason the drop down menu displays behind the
slider and is therefore unclickable and can’t even be seen. I can’t seem to
find a fix for this, do you know of anything that could work?
Are you using the Apple version, or the Windows version, of Safari?
If Windows, that version of Safari is out-dated and no further development will
take place (AFAIK).
I no longer test against Safari, although I do have an associate who uses an
Apple machine and can test.
G'Jim c):{-
--
Custom book-boxes: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookboxes/bookboxes.html
Book repairs: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookrepair/bookrepairs.html
My photography: http://www.gjim.com
Savvy ponderable:
A man who confesses to small faults hopes you will think he has no big ones.
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
is active.
http://www.avast.com
__
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Re: [css-d] Dropdown menu not working on Safari
.responsive_menu in anse_style_combined.css, line 47, has
overflow:hidden; disabling that in Safari Inspector allowed the menus
to show.
HTH
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:28 AM, GJim jarne...@wyomerc.com wrote:
Howdy Yasha,
~~~
Thursday, October 9, 2014, 11:20:58 AM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road
time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.
My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~
On Firefox, Chrome, and all other browsers, the drop down menu works fine
however on Safari, for some reason the drop down menu displays behind the
slider and is therefore unclickable and can’t even be seen. I can’t seem to
find a fix for this, do you know of anything that could work?
Are you using the Apple version, or the Windows version, of Safari?
If Windows, that version of Safari is out-dated and no further development
will
take place (AFAIK).
I no longer test against Safari, although I do have an associate who uses an
Apple machine and can test.
G'Jim c):{-
--
Custom book-boxes: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookboxes/bookboxes.html
Book repairs: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookrepair/bookrepairs.html
My photography: http://www.gjim.com
Savvy ponderable:
A man who confesses to small faults hopes you will think he has no big ones.
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
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Re: [css-d] Dropdown menu not working on Safari
You guys are brilliant! Problem solved. Thank you very very much for the help.
Yasha
On Oct 9, 2014, at 11:43 AM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
.responsive_menu in anse_style_combined.css, line 47, has
overflow:hidden; disabling that in Safari Inspector allowed the menus
to show.
HTH
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:28 AM, GJim jarne...@wyomerc.com wrote:
Howdy Yasha,
~~~
Thursday, October 9, 2014, 11:20:58 AM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road
time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.
My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~
On Firefox, Chrome, and all other browsers, the drop down menu works fine
however on Safari, for some reason the drop down menu displays behind the
slider and is therefore unclickable and can’t even be seen. I can’t seem to
find a fix for this, do you know of anything that could work?
Are you using the Apple version, or the Windows version, of Safari?
If Windows, that version of Safari is out-dated and no further development
will
take place (AFAIK).
I no longer test against Safari, although I do have an associate who uses an
Apple machine and can test.
G'Jim c):{-
--
Custom book-boxes: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookboxes/bookboxes.html
Book repairs: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookrepair/bookrepairs.html
My photography: http://www.gjim.com
Savvy ponderable:
A man who confesses to small faults hopes you will think he has no big ones.
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Flex box help
Hello I've been trying to familiarise myself with the new Flexible Box Layout stuff now recent browser support is getting good. I thought I would start with a layout I am often asked to do (or some variant): - A footer with three columns, the 1st flush against the left edge of the footer, the 2nd exactly centred in the footer, and the 3rd flush with the right edge of the footer. The complication being that the 2nd and 3rd columns have content that should be left aligned and that may be quite short in length, typically a series of links. The easiest way to explain is if you look at this JSFiddle http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/embedded/result/ at a window width of around 1200px. Note that the last li in the 3rd column (SISTER COMPANY WITH A LONG NAME) is flush against the right edge of the footer, and that in the 2nd column if you were to imagine a left border on the ul it would be exactly in the centre of the footer. My problem is that if I reduce the window size until the final li in the 3rd column wraps I no longer have the layout I want. I'm not sure at that point how the content width of the li is being calculated. I thought it still would have a width equivalent to auto, i.e just wide enough to contain its content and no wider. That way the last character of the line would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. Clearly that is not the case. You can see the JSfiddle with source here: http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/ Does anyone have any suggestions? (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? The explanation at both http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Flexible_boxes is far from clear to me. I understand that the value specifies how much the box can shrink or grow, but other than that I have no idea what exactly is calculated or how. Thanks in advance! Best, Darren __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Flex box help
(Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) I'm not sure I follow, actually. Are you only talking about the 3rd column, #external? What do you expect to happen when the width of the container forces the li to break to another line? Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? Have you seen http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/? Chris Rockwell On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Darren Brierton darren.brier...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I've been trying to familiarise myself with the new Flexible Box Layout stuff now recent browser support is getting good. I thought I would start with a layout I am often asked to do (or some variant): - A footer with three columns, the 1st flush against the left edge of the footer, the 2nd exactly centred in the footer, and the 3rd flush with the right edge of the footer. The complication being that the 2nd and 3rd columns have content that should be left aligned and that may be quite short in length, typically a series of links. The easiest way to explain is if you look at this JSFiddle http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/embedded/result/ at a window width of around 1200px. Note that the last li in the 3rd column (SISTER COMPANY WITH A LONG NAME) is flush against the right edge of the footer, and that in the 2nd column if you were to imagine a left border on the ul it would be exactly in the centre of the footer. My problem is that if I reduce the window size until the final li in the 3rd column wraps I no longer have the layout I want. I'm not sure at that point how the content width of the li is being calculated. I thought it still would have a width equivalent to auto, i.e just wide enough to contain its content and no wider. That way the last character of the line would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. Clearly that is not the case. You can see the JSfiddle with source here: http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/ Does anyone have any suggestions? (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? The explanation at both http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Flexible_boxes is far from clear to me. I understand that the value specifies how much the box can shrink or grow, but other than that I have no idea what exactly is calculated or how. Thanks in advance! Best, Darren __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Flex box help
Thanks for replying Chris. My answers are below: On 9 Oct 2014, at 18:59, Chris Rockwell ch...@chrisrockwell.com wrote: (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) I'm not sure I follow, actually. Are you only talking about the 3rd column, #external? What do you expect to happen when the width of the container forces the li to break to another line? Yes, I was mostly talking about the 3rd column. What I was hoping for was that the width of the li would be just wide enough to accommodate the wrapped line and no longer, and that as the parent container has justify-content: flex-end, that everything would scoot over to the right so that final word of the line before the wrap would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. It looks to me that the width of the li is determined by the point at which the line wrap is forced, as opposed to the wrapped content. I understand what the designer is hoping for: that, whether there is word-wrapping or not, in the third column the last character of the longest line should be flush against the right edge. Maybe it is not possible. Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? Have you seen http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/? Yes, I have, thanks. It's pretty good, but I still don't feel I have a full grasp of how flex-grow and flex-shrink (especially the latter) work. Chris Rockwell On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Darren Brierton darren.brier...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I've been trying to familiarise myself with the new Flexible Box Layout stuff now recent browser support is getting good. I thought I would start with a layout I am often asked to do (or some variant): - A footer with three columns, the 1st flush against the left edge of the footer, the 2nd exactly centred in the footer, and the 3rd flush with the right edge of the footer. The complication being that the 2nd and 3rd columns have content that should be left aligned and that may be quite short in length, typically a series of links. The easiest way to explain is if you look at this JSFiddle http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/embedded/result/ at a window width of around 1200px. Note that the last li in the 3rd column (SISTER COMPANY WITH A LONG NAME) is flush against the right edge of the footer, and that in the 2nd column if you were to imagine a left border on the ul it would be exactly in the centre of the footer. My problem is that if I reduce the window size until the final li in the 3rd column wraps I no longer have the layout I want. I'm not sure at that point how the content width of the li is being calculated. I thought it still would have a width equivalent to auto, i.e just wide enough to contain its content and no wider. That way the last character of the line would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. Clearly that is not the case. You can see the JSfiddle with source here: http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/ Does anyone have any suggestions? (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? The explanation at both http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Flexible_boxes is far from clear to me. I understand that the value specifies how much the box can shrink or grow, but other than that I have no idea what exactly is calculated or how. Thanks in advance! Best, Darren __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Flex box help
Darren, I've been working with flex-box for some time now. It does take a bit of re-thinking how layout works. flex-basis is the sub-property you'll need for this issue - http://css-tricks.com/almanac/properties/f/flex-basis/ Solved By Flexbox http://philipwalton.github.io/solved-by-flexbox/?utm_source=Responsive+Design+Weeklyutm_campaign=ff809ca1ec-Responsive_Design_Weekly_125utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_df65b6d7c8-ff809ca1ec-58974505goal=0_df65b6d7c8-ff809ca1ec-58974505 Some commonly used layouts translated to flex-box Hope those help, I have a lot more if you need them. Just keep practicing, it'll click with you soon. Eric On October 9, 2014 at 1:10 PM Darren Brierton darren.brier...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for replying Chris. My answers are below: On 9 Oct 2014, at 18:59, Chris Rockwell ch...@chrisrockwell.com wrote: (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) I'm not sure I follow, actually. Are you only talking about the 3rd column, #external? What do you expect to happen when the width of the container forces the li to break to another line? Yes, I was mostly talking about the 3rd column. What I was hoping for was that the width of the li would be just wide enough to accommodate the wrapped line and no longer, and that as the parent container has justify-content: flex-end, that everything would scoot over to the right so that final word of the line before the wrap would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. It looks to me that the width of the li is determined by the point at which the line wrap is forced, as opposed to the wrapped content. I understand what the designer is hoping for: that, whether there is word-wrapping or not, in the third column the last character of the longest line should be flush against the right edge. Maybe it is not possible. Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? Have you seen http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/? Yes, I have, thanks. It's pretty good, but I still don't feel I have a full grasp of how flex-grow and flex-shrink (especially the latter) work. Chris Rockwell On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Darren Brierton darren.brier...@gmail.com wrote: Hello I've been trying to familiarise myself with the new Flexible Box Layout stuff now recent browser support is getting good. I thought I would start with a layout I am often asked to do (or some variant): - A footer with three columns, the 1st flush against the left edge of the footer, the 2nd exactly centred in the footer, and the 3rd flush with the right edge of the footer. The complication being that the 2nd and 3rd columns have content that should be left aligned and that may be quite short in length, typically a series of links. The easiest way to explain is if you look at this JSFiddle http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/embedded/result/ at a window width of around 1200px. Note that the last li in the 3rd column (SISTER COMPANY WITH A LONG NAME) is flush against the right edge of the footer, and that in the 2nd column if you were to imagine a left border on the ul it would be exactly in the centre of the footer. My problem is that if I reduce the window size until the final li in the 3rd column wraps I no longer have the layout I want. I'm not sure at that point how the content width of the li is being calculated. I thought it still would have a width equivalent to auto, i.e just wide enough to contain its content and no wider. That way the last character of the line would still be flush against the right edge of the footer. Clearly that is not the case. You can see the JSfiddle with source here: http://jsfiddle.net/3eajh33k/ Does anyone have any suggestions? (Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about? ;-) Lastly, does anyone know a really good explanation of the properties flex-grow and flex-shrink? The explanation at both http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Flexible_boxes is far from clear to me. I understand that the value specifies how much the box can shrink or grow, but other than that I have no idea what exactly is calculated or how. Thanks in advance! Best, Darren __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies --
[css-d] Flexbox minimum width of flex-items (was Flex box help)
(forking from the 'Flex box help thread) Chris Rockwell ch...@chrisrockwell.com wrote : Have you seen http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/? Be careful with that one. While in general it is quite good, it is not up to date with the spec anymore. One of the most important changes the recent iterations of the Flexbox spec has brought is the introduction of the `main-size` value for flex shorthand, and the re-introduction of the `auto` value —as the default— for min-width/min-height. http://www.w3.org/TR/css-flexbox-1/#min-size-auto But do read the whole thing: http://www.w3.org/TR/css-flexbox-1/ See also the changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/css-flexbox-1/#changes (and follow the links to the CSS-WG wiki and emails for all the discussions). At time of writing, Firefox Nightly builds [1] are the only ones that are spec compliant (and perhaps IE 12 developer builds, but I have no access to those). Consider this test case: http://dev.l-c-n.com/_temp/flexbox/flex-min-width.html In all current _release_ builds this displays identically (with the long-string in the right-hand column clipped). This is not how it _should work_ per the spec. If one opens the test case in a Firefox nightly build, the right-hand column will stretch to the width of the longest string. This test case has this fixed - it explicitly set `min-width: 0` for the affected flex-item. http://dev.l-c-n.com/_temp/flexbox/flex-min-width2.html [1] https://nightly.mozilla.org Philippe -- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
