[css-d] header not at the top
also sprach David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008.03.22.2121 +0100]: Pardon me if I am being obtuse, but why would you want to place the header anywhere other than at the head of the document? Well, isn't it still the case that the content of a document should be at the start for bots and text browsers to easily process? If you look at e.g. http://www.google.com/search?as_q=madduck%20blog, you'll see that Google summarises the first hit with This entire site is under construction and thoroughly incomplete! (Mar 2008) which is at the top of the page. Ideally, the title and first sentence should show up there, right? -- martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/ perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' spamtraps: [EMAIL PROTECTED] digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] header not at the top
martin f krafft wrote: Well, isn't it still the case that the content of a document should be at the start for bots and text browsers to easily process? That's one view on it, but it certainly isn't the only one. Hard to say what purpose your header has without seeing it, but if the header isn't an important enough part of the document (page) to be on top, then _maybe_ it shouldn't be in the document (page) at all. To me a header heads a document's content, which means it should come first in the source-code. Not everything people want to include in the header has to do with the content though, so there are always exceptions. To judge how best to deal with a particular exception, we must see it. Got a link? regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] header not at the top
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:41:08 +0100 martin f krafft wrote: also sprach David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008.03.22.2121 +0100]: Pardon me if I am being obtuse, but why would you want to place the header anywhere other than at the head of the document? Well, isn't it still the case that the content of a document should be at the start for bots and text browsers to easily process? If you look at e.g. http://www.google.com/search?as_q=madduck%20blog, you'll see that Google summarises the first hit with This entire site is under construction and thoroughly incomplete! (Mar 2008) which is at the top of the page. Ideally, the title and first sentence should show up there, right? But if you have a META description, that will be placed there by Google. I count all sites as under construction. If anyone tells me they have 'finished' the website, I tell them they do not understand the web. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] header not at the top
martin f krafft wrote: If you look at e.g. http://www.google.com/search?as_q=madduck%20blog, you'll see that Google summarises the first hit with This entire site is under construction and thoroughly incomplete! (Mar 2008) which is at the top of the page. The paragraph saying that This entire site is under construction and thoroughly incomplete! (Mar 2008), isn't part of what you call header. If you really think that paragraph should be in the page, then it should most definitely be the first a visitor sees - regardless of whether they enter through google or a text browser or a CSS enabled browser. It's informative when read in sequence, but seems to be less so if the order is changed significantly. Thus, moving bits around in _that_ page's source and then move them back with CSS, js or whatever, doesn't really make much sense. If, OTOH, you had a whole screen-load of links or other stuff in between what _appears to be_ the article-headline - span id=title - and the article itself, then the relevant bits should probably be arranged a bit different. Whether or not such a rearrangement should appear to differ in order between UAs, is a completely different matter. Ideally, the title and first sentence should show up there, right? The title-element, yes, but what bits google extracts from a document can not be controlled by applying a certain source-order. Example: http://www.google.com/search?client=operarls=enq=gunlaugsourceid=operaie=utf-8oe=utf-8 ...where, logical or not, google present bits that are extracted from both ends of the content-area. Our home-page on top of that search is source-ordered the way I want it, and so are all pages on our site. Google extracts what that company have decided is most suitable to present for a specific search. What you'll see for our home-page's English-language counterpart with identical source-order, in a text browser like Lynx... http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunlaug.no%2Fmain-en.html ...clearly shows the intended order, but with link-relations extracted from the page-head on top. In my other browsers those link-relations are somewhere else, or not shown at all. This just to show that what ends up where, be it in google or anywhere else, depends on more than source-order and is to a large degree out of the designer/author's control. I think I would rather focus on marking up with the most appropriate elements - like a h1 instead of a span for what appears to be the main headline, than manipulate source-order, in the case you have presented. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
