Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Bill Kingsbury wrote: Only to you. To the rest of us who are assessing what the authorities are spoon feeding the public, it is NOT obvious what exactly happened. He never "lost control of the airplane"...? Even if it was blown to bits, he did lose control of it. We don't KNOW that it was 'blown to bits', we don't even KNOW that he ever lost control. What we are being TOLD, in a story that only surfaced 24 hours after he was reported missing, is that the airport was in contact with him at a certain time, and that radar purports to show a certain event happening to A plane presumed to be Kennedy's. And yet, when the story first broke, we were told the searchers had no idea where to look, since Kennedy not only did not have to file a flight plan, but due to the size of his plane IT WAS NOT TRACKED ON RADAR... And yet radar tapes mysteriously surfaced late Sunday... And late on Saturday, we're suddenly told he was talking to the Vineyard airport at 9:39 Friday night...raising the question as to why the airport didn't raise an alert shortly after 10pm when he didn't arrive, and especially why they allowed the search and rescue effort to cover 1000 square miles thruout Saturday, since the searchers didn't know where to look...and then suddenly, after flotsam and jetsam washed up on Cape Cod shores, the airport suddenly remembered talking to Kennedy the night before... Either the airport deliberately allowed the search to be diverted away from the Vineyard, or they indeed never talked to Kennedy, and this is a bit of disinformation that was released after items were planted in the Vineyard vacinity to give validity to the now accepted official version of events. So we don't KNOW that Kennedy even made it to Martha's Vineyard...since we, the public, are not being given any concrete EVIDENCE that he did, but are asked to ACCEPT the bits of info (which is more likely disinfo) that we are being given...we are being TOLD that the airport talked to him (but as I have shown, analysis of THIS story raises troubling questions), we are being TOLD a Piper was found of the Vineyard, that it had 3 bodies on it, and that these bodies are Kennedy and his wife and sister-in-law...but conveniently we now don't even have these BODIES as evidence, a sudden and drastic decision to cremate the bodies and scatter the ashes at sea having been made... Conveniently not providing future researchers with bodies which could be exhumed for independent study... Conveniently, we don't even have autopsy pictures available... No, we do not have EVIDENCE of ANYTHING happening, just what we are TOLD what happened The only thing we KNOW is that Kennedy and his wife and his sister-in-law aren't around...beyond that, everything is conjecture, rumor, and disinformation... ? What are you smoking ? You know next to nothing about what I accept or believe. You seem to be accepting the version that Kennedy even made it to Martha's Vineyard, and then his plane somehow crashed. But there is no EVIDENCE of that, at least not evidence that holds up to critical analysis. There is now an account that he talked to the airport, which then raises questions regarding their silence for so long...and we are now being shown supposed radar tapes, after the initial reports told us that he was NOT tracked/recorded on radar. Obviously there are lies, the question is what version is true, if any? DID the radar tapes created Friday night? If so, then why weren't the searchers deployed in the Vineyard vacinity? If the tapes didn't exist, then we are left with the answer that these tapes were created to fit a sceanario which is being touted as 'the truth of what happened'... If you notice, I was stating your deduction was in agreement with the (then) current "official story." No more, no less. Hardly, since what I'm saying is that ALL versions of what we are being told is disinformation...and that includes the 'flash of light' story. The FACT of the matter is, we don't have any unquestionable evidence that Kennedy even made it to Martha's Vineyard...the only thing that we can state with some assurance of validity is that he took off from New Jersey around 8:30 on Friday night, last seen heading west and then northwest... And he then disappeared off the scene. ANYTHING ELSE stated is solely conjecture, mostly based on the information and disinformation being given the public by the press, who in turn are being spoonfed by 'the authorities' June ;-) *===* Kite So many things you want to see And as you ask I'll set you free But as you fly You'll touch the sky And touch the heart Within me Fly away. -- Bob Childs
Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Bill Kingsbury wrote: A reporter witnessed a 'big white flash in the sky' at the time of the crash. This is the clue... Can you -- or ANYONE -- give a citation for this assertion that ANYONE, whether a reporter or not, saw a 'big white flash in the sky at the time of the crash'... I've seen this assertion in various emails for a couple of days now, but no one ever gives the name of the reporter, what news outlet reported this, WHEN they reported, etc. I find it very suspicious...first, that a reporter would conveniently be in the area to witness this, and yet no one else in the area seems to have noticed it One would think that the Martha's Vineyard air control personnel would have taken notice of a bright flash, especially when Kennedy's plane didn't land No, the ONLY account of a witness that was reported on in the first hours, reported live on MSNBC between 10:30 and 11am EDT on Saturday morning, and also recounted in the New York Times, is of a man who was out fishing that night, who reported seeing the lights on the plane, which appeared to be flying at about 40 feet above the water; if his account is accurate, it would seem that Kennedy, if he DID nosedive as later reports spun the version of what possibly happened, he seems to have recovered, albeit at an abnormally low altitude. According to the witness, the plane was circling and approaching the Martha's Vineyard airport from a direction which the witness claimed was common for pilots who missed their first approach to the landing strip... MSNBC went on to state that this witness then said that both the lights and the sounds of the engine (which to the witness said did not sound in trouble) 'disappeared without a sound'no explosion, no blinding flash, not even the sound of a splash into the water...it was just there one second, and not there the next... Whatever THAT might imply, the fact remains that his account remains the earliest reported account -- reported in at least TWO media outlets -- of someone who WAS in a position to be an eyewitness...and his version is the exact opposite of a 'blinding flash in the sky' So I'd like some confirmation of where this 'blinding flash' version of events came from, what media outlets have reported it, and more revealing, WHO the reporter is who 'just happened' to be in the area, and who the reporter works for. Blinding by Incindiary Flash Warhead ? or Military- Laser Ocular Disintegrator ? or Montauk Particle Beam Weapon ? A kid with a laserlight keychain, fooling around? If Kennedy was blinded by either of the things you mention above, why didn't he radio the airport that he was having trouble? Or his wife or sister-in-law? When the supposed evidence is CRITICALLY analyzed, we really don't have PROOF that they even made it to Martha's Vineyard...what we DO have is the airport, claiming almost 12 hours after the search for the plane commenced, to have been in contact with him shortly before he was due to land. If this is true, why did they let the searchers roam far and wide during the first 12 hours of the search -- as you remember, Saturday morning and well into Satruday afternoon, we were being told that searchers HAD NO IDEA WHERE TO SEARCH But then suddenly the Martha's Vineyard airport 'remembers' they talked to Kennedy when he was only a few miles out from the island...why then didn't they alert the authorities to that 'fact' early on? You may also remember that most of Saturday we were told Kennedy's plane was of the type where it wouldn't record on radar, and hence there were no records of where exactly it travelled on it's way to Cape Cod...this was also mentioned as a reason searchers didn't know where exactly to look for the plane And yet suddenly we were told not only WAS the plane recorded on the MV airport's radar, but 2 others, allowing a 'triangulation' that not only pinpointed the plane -- actually, what can be said with any validity is that the radar recorded A plane, PRESUMED to be Kennedy's -- but it's supposed rate of descent (remember, the eyewitness report which is the earliest substantiated report, does NOT mention the plane in a nosedive, but flying parallel with the ocean, albeit only 40 feet up...) So the FACT remains that for at least the first 12 hours of the search on Sunday, searchers were diverted AWAY from Martha's Vineyard... Which leaves us with only two options: either the Martha's Vineyard airport is lying when it says it talked to Kennedy shortly before he told them he was going to land there; or they deliberately withheld that information for 12 hours from the search and rescue parties. Either option is 'troubling', to say the least. And now, conveniently, the bodies have been buried at sea, preempting any researchers/investigators from possibly exhuming the bodies at a later date for further investigation... The bodies are cremated --
Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- At 08:48 AM 7-23-1999 -0400, June wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Bill Kingsbury wrote: A reporter witnessed a 'big white flash in the sky' at the time of the crash. This is the clue... Can you -- or ANYONE -- give a citation for this assertion that ANYONE, whether a reporter or not, saw a 'big white flash in the sky at the time of the crash'... I've seen this assertion in various emails for a couple of days now, but no one ever gives the name of the reporter, what news outlet reported this, WHEN they reported, etc. The reporter's name was apparently never given to the public : _ see paragraph 32, below : " A reporter for the Vineyard Gazette newspaper told WCVB-TV in Boston that he was out walking Friday night about the time of the crash and saw "big white flash in the sky" off Philbin Beach. " You could ask Vineyard Gazette : phone: 508-627-4311 mail: P.O. Box 66, Edgartown, MA 02539 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web:http://www.mvgazette.com _ the original source article : http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=95934 Hopes fade for missing Kennedy plane Sunday, 18 July 1999 2:08 (GMT) UPI Focus AQUINNAH, Mass., July 17 (UPI) - After a daylong unsuccessful search for a missing single-engine plane piloted by John F. Kennedy Jr., the National Transportation Safety Board is launching an investigation into the aircraft's disappearance. An official statement tonight says an NTSB team has been dispatched to Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts as the Coast Guard continues to coordinate "aggressive search-and-rescue activities." As daylight faded, Air Force helicopters returned to Otis Air Force Base, to resume the search Sunday morning. Hopes faded today as bits of debris from the Piper Saratoga were recovered and a piece of luggage was positively identified as belonging to Lauren Bessette, Kennedy's sister-in-law. Kennedy's wife, 33-year-old Carolyn Bessette, was also traveling with him. The luggage, along with what appeared to be an airplane tire, washed up on Philbin Beach on Martha's Vineyard, and Lauren Bessette's name was on the tag of a black suitcase, said First District Coast Guard spokesman Lt. Gary Jones. Jones said other debris -- a head rest and carpeting that appeared to be from the plane -- were found this afternoon floating in the water about 100 yards from nearby Gay Head Beach. Kennedy and the Bessette sisters were traveling from Caldwell, New Jersey, to Hyannis Port for the wedding of Mark Bailey and Rory Kennedy, the last unmarried daughter of Ethel Kennedy and the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The event was postponed, and what should have been a joyous gathering of the clan turned into a grim vigil as members of the Kennedy family waited anxiously at their storied oceanfront compound for word on the fate of the three. An outdoor family mass was held, presided over by three Roman Catholic priests, as Mrs. Kennedy, other family members and around 275 guests gathered to pray. Among those present were Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., former U.S. Rep. Joseph Kennedy, Rory's older brother and JFK Jr.'s cousin, and U.S. Housing Secretary Andrew Cuomo, who is married to Kerry Kennedy. John Kennedy's older sister, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, was away on a rafting trip and had not planned to attend the wedding. Sen. Kennedy's son, Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., was also away in California and immediately flew back to Boston, according to media reports. Family spokesman Brian O'Connor said the family was initially hopeful that the three would be found alive. But he said the mood at the compound turned somber when debris, apparently from the plane, began washing up on the western end of Martha's Vineyard. There was no immediate comment from any of the family members. Before the effort was scaled back at sunset, Rear Adm. Richard M. Larrabee told journalists the Coast Guard was still in a search-and-rescue mode. But the dispatch of federal investigators suggests authorities are now presuming the plane has crashed. Coast Guard cutters equipped with high-powered lights will continue to search the sea south of Martha's Vineyard throughout the night. Earlier in the day, the Civil Air Patrol withdrew from the search 15 aircraft that were combing a 15-by-15-mile grid from Long Island to Martha's Vineyard after debris and luggage washed ashore on Philbin Beach. Jones said the Coast Guard was notified about the missing plane at around 3 a.m. EDT, and the search started immediately. About 15 Coast Guard and Air Force aircraft and some 150 personnel joined in the search. Kennedy, a licensed private pilot, was expected to arrive at Martha's
Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Bill Kingsbury wrote: I've seen this assertion in various emails for a couple of days now, but no one ever gives the name of the reporter, what news outlet reported this, WHEN they reported, etc. The reporter's name was apparently never given to the public : [snip] You could ask Vineyard Gazette : phone: 508-627-4311 mail: P.O. Box 66, Edgartown, MA 02539 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web:http://www.mvgazette.com _I_ am not the one disseminating hearsay as gospel truth. It should be those who are desseminating this story regarding the supposed flash seen by the supposed reporter who should be calling the Gazette to find out the name of this reporter, and perhaps get a FIRST HAND account of what he claims he saw, instead of depending on 3rd hand hearsay that would be inadmissable as evidence in a court of law Jamie Gaspar, spokesman for Martha's Vineyard Airport, told UPI that "someone was at the airport to pick up the passengers on the plane, but it never arrived." Again, why wasn't the alert raised THEN? I find it very suspicious...first, that a reporter would conveniently be in the area to witness this, and yet no one else in the area seems to have noticed it "Reportedly," at least four other people also DID notice; they "SAW and HEARD an explosion in the air" : Reported by whom? Why don't we have the NAMES of these 4 people? Why haven't we seen them on the media, giving their version of what they claim to have seen... Again, these supposed witnesses are only told about in what can be described as second-hand, if not third-hand, accounts -- legally, hearsay, and would be inadmissable as evidence in a court of law. Several local news reports Where we are conveniently never given the names of these media outlets... initially (reported) that several people Who are conveniently never named. Hearsay. One would think that the Martha's Vineyard air control personnel would have taken notice of a bright flash, especially when Kennedy's plane didn't land The airport may not be near that part of the island... The island's not all that big...and one would think the air control tower would have a 360 degree view Also doesn't explain why the one verified witness, who HAS been named (altho I don't have the New York TImes article at hand), saw no flash but DID report seeing the plane disappear without a sound... Was the fisherman near Philbin Beach, or on the other side of the island ? He apparantly was near enough to the airport to state the plane was coming from a direction commonly used by pilots who missed their first approach and circle around to make another approach...he saw the plane after it was finishing a curved direction and straightened out, and it was shortly thereafter that he says that it 'disappeared'... So one would presume he was fairly close to the airport if the plane's direction straightened out in anticipation of making a 2nd landing approach Did he specify the exact time of his sighting ? I believe he stated it was around 9:40, but the NYT article would have the details...unfortunately, I'm currently without a web browser, so I don't know if they have it online or not... But this is moot, if the report of a flash is blatant disinformation, and never happened... Did he see a different plane - and not the Kennedy plane? Without time and location specifics, this report is not useful. He was in the vacinity of the airport at the general time Kennedy was due to land. That doesn't prove that the plane he saw was Kennedy's, but his account remains the one that has the most validity, because it was reported on in the first hours of the search and rescue and his name is given in the NYT article... So his is a firsthand account, which WOULD be admissable as evidence in a court of law, while the flash of light version is inadmissable hearsay... The currently- alleged crash site, and radar results, indicate Kennedy NEVER reached the island, and therefore the reports of appearing to "circle for a second landing attempt" may possibly be either bogus, or referring to a different plane. Or perhaps the alleged crash site and radar results are what are indeed 'bogus'...after all, it took them a day and a half to come up with this radar which they're presenting to the public as 'this shows Kennedy's plane'...no, it is radar of A plane, possibly Kennedy's, possibly someone else's, possibly radar tapes created from whole cloth... What they can't explain away is that if they had these radar tapes Saturday morning, why were we being told at that time that searchers had no idea WHERE Kennedy went down, and so were conducting a search that included all of Long Island Sound, and the Atlantic south of Long Island ranging westwards back to NJ? Also, perhaps the "circling plane" was an "attack craft" (possibly a Piper Saratoga, also) -- which was
Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- At 09:05 PM 7-23-1999 -0400, you wrote: Kennedy would have been disoriented -- obviously he lost control of the airplane -- Only to you. To the rest of us who are assessing what the authorities are spoon feeding the public, it is NOT obvious what exactly happened. He never "lost control of the airplane"...? Even if it was blown to bits, he did lose control of it. Also, radios can be jammed. But not selectively...jamming would have affected ALL radio communication in the area, which would have readily been noticeable to an island community. Yes. Radio frequencies can be selectively jammed. And if done from a nearby pursuit craft (as was posited), no one else would likely have noticed unless they were monitoring the same frequency. "If" there was jamming, yes, the airport WAS listening on that frequency -- but would they admit now they had heard radio jamming, after failing to report this missing plane -- OR, after having been told to "say no more" about what, in fact, they did attempt to report ? Also, "if" there was jamming, effected from a nearby pursuit craft, they could have used technology that entirely cancels a carrier frequency, thus allowing practically no signal or noise to escape... But, perhaps more likely, they could have used an "EMP cannon" to fry all of the electronics on board Kennedy's plane (including the radio and ignition). Then an "altitude or barometric pressure triggered" bomb could well have finished the job -- "if" this was an "engineered demolition." When the supposed evidence is CRITICALLY analyzed, we really don't have PROOF that they even made it to Martha's Vineyard... That's what the official reports are now indicating And you obviously unquestioningly accept everything officials tell you. You must also then believe in the unfailing validity of the Warren Commission Report... ? What are you smoking ? You know next to nothing about what I accept or believe. If you notice, I was stating your deduction was in agreement with the (then) current "official story." No more, no less. . DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-07-23 21:05:45 EDT, you write: Also, radios can be jammed. But not selectively...jamming would have affected ALL radio communication in the area, which would have readily been noticeable to an island community. Jamming is much easier when you only have to jam one frequency, even two frequencies are easy to jam, but jamming the full spectrum is extremely hard since it requires much more power, which is very expensive ... to buy a transmitter of that type and to find power for it. I have never seen a full spectrum jammer for sale, as far as I know only the military uses them. If someone was to know the transmit frequency of his radio, they could jam it by keying their transmitter and putting a 3Kc signal on it with a cheap oscillator, no one in the area would be able to distinguish what was being transmitted from the plane. Also, retuning to a new transmit frequency would take time, much more than 12 seconds. They would also be able to jam the planes receive frequency in the same manner, making it so the plane could not receive any communications without retuning to a different frequency. Regards, Bob Stokes DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] JFK Jr - Laser Blinded in the Night ?
-Caveat Lector- The plane was found with the cabin intact -- apparently it was not the target of an explosion from a bomb, etc. A reporter witnessed a 'big white flash in the sky' at the time of the crash. This is the clue... Blinding by Incindiary Flash Warhead ? or Military- Laser Ocular Disintegrator ? or Montauk Particle Beam Weapon ? The bodies are cremated -- after autopsies were performed. Were the victims' eyes intact, and examined for retinal holes, burns, etc. -- such as inflicted by a laser assault -- and if so, will the uncensored autopsy report be made public ? Please don't let an electable Kennedy drive without major eye protection... The president you save could be your own. -- excerpt from : http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_mcmillan/ 19990722_xccmc_a_convenie.shtml A convenient death Thursday, July 22, 1999 JFK Jr. radioed the airport at Martha's Vineyard at 9:39 p.m. on Friday, July 16, for his final approach. He told the control tower operator that he was 13 miles from the airport and ten miles from the coast. Triangulation would give a rough location of the aircraft. "Moments later, radar operated by the Federal Aviation Administration showed the plane went into a dive and dropped 1,200 feet in just 12 seconds," ABC news reported. "A reporter for the Vineyard Gazette newspaper told WCVB-TV in Boston that he was out walking Friday night about the time of the crash and saw a 'big white flash in the sky' off Philbin Beach," UPI reported. Visibility was eight miles, adequate for landing visually. But, as JFK Jr. himself reported , he was 10 miles from the coast -- too distant for the reporter's unaided eyesight to recognize more than a "big white flash in the sky." . DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
