Re: [CTRL] The Contradictions of Capitalism
-Caveat Lector- Capitalism and free markets are inherently contradictory. Capitalism can't exist in a free market because capitalism requires the state. Without the armed might of the state to protect them, corporations can't exist. Nessie Good point. Most statists don't understand that there is a big difference between capitalism (essentially State Corporatism) and the free market. The very concept of limited legal liability and the legal fiction granted corporations that they are citizens and entitled to Bill of Rights protection contradict the concept of free markets. These are essentially statist concepts which are anathema to any concept of free markets. Regulatory Agencies and corporations go hand in hand. The FDA; SEC; FDA; etc. etc. are all beloved by corporations since they are manipulated by the incestuous Corporate State. This is the fallacy of the Silly Socialists. They claim they would make the state honestjust put them in charge - Yeah right!! flw A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Contradictions of Capitalism
-Caveat Lector- M. A. Johnson wrote: -Caveat Lector- Nessie Chants Capitalism and free markets are inherently contradictory. Capitalism can't exist in a free market because capitalism requires the state. Without the armed might of the state to protect them, corporations can't exist. flw Most statists don't understand that there is a big difference between capitalism (essentially State Corporatism) and the free market. The is no such thing as the Free Market. If there is, I'd like you to show it to me. If you can't show it to me, then you are no different from other superstitionists who claim there is a heaven and Hell. MJ You apparently fail to grasp the difference between PRIVATE and GOVERNMENT. Only when one REDEFINES capitalism does one create the link with the State. One can have OTHER economic systems AND maintain a 'free market' (as limited as it might be), but a free market is REQUIRED for capitalism. Johnson is completely whacky. He doesn't even live on this planet. I wonder if he believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well? flw The very concept of limited legal liability and the legal fiction granted corporations that they are citizens and entitled to Bill of Rights protection contradict the concept of free markets. These are essentially statist concepts which are anathema to any concept of free markets. What BOTH you guys are dismissing, is that all this grew out of Capitalism, and now you claim that it's not Capitalism. But of course it is. Because the essentials have not changed. Private ownership of the means of production, and the coersion of the State to protect private property ( the Rich ). MJ Yes. Corporations are a creation of Government -- having NOTHING to do with capitalism. See. This guy is insane. flw Regulatory Agencies and corporations go hand in hand. The FDA; SEC; FDA; etc. etc. are all beloved by corporations since they are manipulated by the incestuous Corporate State. This is true for Capitalism or other forms of economies where society is organized as a powerful state. MJ Pull-Peddling Politicians seek tribute from the MANY factions willing to pay them. Regard$, --MJ There is simply no other choice than this: either abstain from interference in the free play of the market, or to delegate the entire management of production and distribution to the government. Either capitalism or socialism: there exists no middle way. Ludwig von Mises More bullshit from Ludwig. There is no reason that it has to be either or. Both have failed miserably. The Commies are dead. Now it's the turn of Capitalism. Enjoy it while it lasts boys. Capitalism is now bumping up against Nature. Nature NEVER, NEVER loses. Joshua2 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] The Contradictions of Capitalism
-Caveat Lector- The Contradictions of Capitalism The Dearth of Rational Discussion by Jim Peron We canât win. We advocates of individual rights, free markets and limited government simply canât win the intellectual debate with the Left. And the reason for it is that there is no intellectual debate with them. And there canât be such a debate since the Left is simply not open to rational discussion. They know that capitalism is inherently evil and nothing that is said, no evidence that is presented, no facts that are marshaled will convince them otherwise. Fabians Consider this example. The Fabian socialists were founded in 1883, the same year that Karl Marx died, when a small group of âintellectualsâ gathered at 17 Osnaburgh Street in London to hear some lectures on the promised new world order of socialism. From this meeting was formed the Fabian Society, dedicated to the willfully slow evolution of a socialist society in England. The Society was named after the Roman general and dictator Quintus Fabius Maximus who fought, and laid the groundwork for the defeat of, Hannibal. In Fabian Tract No.1 the Society explained its strategy: âFor the right moment you must wait, as Fabius did most patiently when warring against Hannibal, though many censured his delays; but when the time comes you must strike hard, as Fabius did, or your waiting will be in vain and fruitless.â The credo of the Fabians said that the society âconsists of Socialistsâ who will work to destroy private property, free markets and individualism. Fabians were a strong, if not the strongest, influence on the British Labour Party and used the likes of George Bernard Shaw and Sidney and Beatrice Webb to spout its propaganda on the virtues of Stalinism and Soviet Communism. Its list of members read like the Whoâs Who of British intellectualism and included RH Tawney, GDH Cole, Harold Wilson, Harold Laski, Oswald Mosley (the founder of British fascism), Bertrand Russell, Clement Attlee, John Strachey, Stephen Spender, George Orwell, and others. For over a century the Fabian Society has continued to promote a Marxist agenda for the various countries of the world. At the turn of the last century the Fabians would wax eloquently on the virtues of socialism and the vices of capitalism. They never tired of telling anyone who would listen how capitalism would lead to poverty and misery for the bulk of England's workers. They promised that only a socialist, centrally planned society, could achieve wealth and prosperity. The workers, noted the socialists, could never find happiness and self-satisfaction as long as they were entrenched in the poverty of a capitalist economy. One hundred years later the Fabian Society stills exists. And not long ago, on BBC World, I watched a documentary series entitled âBig Ideasâ. It was billed as an antidote to the pessimism of the politically correct. In truth it was hardly that at all. Instead the entire show concentrated on an âeconomistâ who represents the Fabian Society. So what do the Fabians have to say 100 years later? Will they continue with their rhetoric of the last century and castigate capitalism for leading millions into poverty? Of course not. The laughter from the millions of âworkersâ viewing the show on their color televisions would drown out their rhetoric. Capitalism Causes Too Much Prosperity Instead this Fabian went on about how the wealth of capitalism doesnât lead to happiness. This âeconomistâ lamented the luxuries of the average worker. He ridiculed those who work hard to get ahead in the world. And he said that this problem was clearly the fault of capitalism. It seems that capitalism leads to prosperity. In fact it leads to too much prosperity. People start seeking out luxuries, and status symbol consumer goods, as a result. When it was pointed out to him that individuals who didnât want to work hard didnât have to do so, he was unpersuaded. The problem with the wealth of consumer capitalism is that the system itself forces people to compete. The individual who wants to drop out, perhaps to read the works of Marx, canât do so because of the structure of the system. He is a victim of capitalism. People should, instead, be free to concentrate on the âimportantâ things, by which he means things which he thinks are important. And, of course, the solution to this structural problem was the âsocial ownershipâ of the means of production. He wanted regulations and laws to prevent rampant competition and wealth-gathering. Now just about one century ago his forerunners in the Fabian Society were saying that capitalism leads to poverty and that only socialism can create wealth for the workers. Turning a blind eye to a century of rhetoric, todayâs Fabians are attacking capitalism for creating too much wealth. A century ago the worker, living in poverty, would never find happiness. Today the Fabians argue that happiness is illusive because
Re: [CTRL] The Contradictions of Capitalism
-Caveat Lector- Capitalism and free markets are inherently contradictory. Capitalism can't exist in a free market because capitalism requires the state. Without the armed might of the state to protect them, corporations can't exist. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER =CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ===Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A ===To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Contradictions of Capitalism
-Caveat Lector- Nessie Chanted Capitalism and free markets are inherently contradictory. MJ Bullshit. These two concepts are inherently linked. Nessie Chanted Capitalism can't exist in a free market because capitalism requires the state. MJ Bullshit. Once the STATE sticks it's nose into Capitalism -- by DEFINITION -- it ceases. Learn the difference between PRIVATE and GOVERNMENT. Nessie Without the armed might of the state to protect them, corporations can't exist. MJ Sure. Corporations are a product of the State ... but they have NOTHING to do with Capitalism. Regard$, --MJ There is simply no other choice than this: either abstain from interference in the free play of the market, or to delegate the entire management of production and distribution to the government. Either capitalism or socialism: there exists no middle way. Ludwig von Mises A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
