Re: [CTRL] We Already Know ... [CTRL] Gassed Kurds
-Caveat Lector- Lyn: The point of my message was not whether or not Saddam gassed the Kurds. The Iranians gassed, the Iraqis gassed, the Kurds were victims. You ignored the point that the US helped Saddam manufacture his poison. The US was responsible for the deaths of 100,000/s of Shiites and Kurds when it formented an uprising against Saddam in 1991 after the Gulf War - then had second thoughts about permitting the Shiites from taking power, afraid they would ally themselves with the Iranian Shiites. The US permitted Saddam to use his heliocopters after we had established a 'no fly zone' to butcher the Shiites and Kurds. Now we cry crocodile tears The WMD BS is agiprop invented by the neo-cons. flw www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] We Already Know ... [CTRL] Gassed Kurds
-Caveat Lector- FLW: Thank you for your reply. I am having difficulty here because my messages are being bounced back to me by CTRL, so the rest of the list will not have a clue what your reply referred to. For some reason my original comment on Kurds/WMD was allowed through, but now we are back to the blocked stage I was at on the list prior to that. I can only assume some selective mechanism is operating. I saw your two points about (1) gas is not a WMD, only nukes, and (2) the USA helped Saddam earlier on. My letter contained a point which I thought replied to the first of these. 5000 Kurds (even though that number is disputed) is a mass of people, and most discussions of WMD go wider than nuclear weapons. I believe you are correct about the US helping Saddam earlier on. I have looked at the weapons source statistics, and the contributions of France and Russia towards Saddam's arsenal were also large. Regards, LM -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of flw Sent: 03 August 2003 13:55 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] We Already Know ... [CTRL] Gassed Kurds Lyn: The point of my message was not whether or not Saddam gassed the Kurds. The Iranians gassed, the Iraqis gassed, the Kurds were victims. You ignored the point that the US helped Saddam manufacture his poison. The US was responsible for the deaths of 100,000/s of Shiites and Kurds when it formented an uprising against Saddam in 1991 after the Gulf War - then had second thoughts about permitting the Shiites from taking power, afraid they would ally themselves with the Iranian Shiites. The US permitted Saddam to use his heliocopters after we had established a 'no fly zone' to butcher the Shiites and Kurds. Now we cry crocodile tears The WMD BS is agiprop invented by the neo-cons. flw www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] We Already Know ... [CTRL] Gassed Kurds
-Caveat Lector- Your argument is not valid. Halabja had been occupied (temporarily) by Iranian forces 48 hours before the main chemical attack from Iraq. But there had been earlier chemical attacks as well, and the Iraqi administration later used the chemical attack on Halabja as a threat to keep its Kurdish citizens in line. There is a book called No Friends But The Mountains - the Tragic History Of The Kurds, written by two senior UK journalists called John Bullock and Harvey Morris, and first published in 1992. On page 9 of the Penguin 1993 edition, it states: . The Kurds saw little prospect that the Western build-up in the Gulf would bring them any direct advantage. In the early months of the crisis there was certainly no thought in the West of a possible Kurdish role in an Iraqi post-war settlement, if indeed there was to be a war. The Kurds were also mindful of the fact that if they decided to strike at the regime but struck too soon and before it was sufficiently weakened, then Baghdad might respond as it had in the past, with bombardment by chemical weapons. Saddam's deputy, Izzat Ibrahim, had even gone to Suleimaniyeh to warn them: 'If you have forgotten Halabja, I would like to remind you that we are ready to repeat the operation.' On page 142 it states: ... In the late afternoon of 16 March the first wave of Iraqi planes appeared over the town to drop their bomb-loads of mustard has, nerve gas and cyanide. Within a few hours as many as 5,000 people were dead and as many again lay burned and gasping for breath from the effects of the chemical attack.. . The Kurds call Halabja the Kurdish Auschwitz, not because the scale of the massacre was comparable with that of the Nazi death camp, but because the victims were chosen merely because they were Kurds. .as a punishment for their assumed collaboration with Iran and the Iranian-backed peshmerga who had seized Halabja from Iraqi forces less than forty-eight hours earlier.. And It was not the first time the Baathist regime had used chemical weapons against the Kurds - Mullah Mustafa Barzani complained to the United Nations as early as 1963 that Baghdad was using chemicals. Nor was it to be the last. In the twelve months leading up to the raid on Halabja there had been chemical attacks against villages, civilians and peshmerga units in isolated valleys on twenty-one separate days. After a raid on the Balasan valley in Arbil province on 16 April 1987, 286 injured Kurds made their way to Arbil city for medical attention. They were all captured and killed by the Iraqi army. But Halabja was the most ruthless and deadly operation until then, and had been directed at targets - civilian citizens of Iraq - with no possible military significance. L L Milnes www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] We Already Know ... [CTRL] Gassed Kurds
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 8/2/2003 9:20:46 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My letter contained a point which I thought replied to the first of these. 5000 Kurds (even though that number is disputed) is a "mass" of people, and most discussions of WMD go wider than nuclear weapons. Old fashioned chemical weapons such as mustard gas are never considered WMD. Newer chems, bio-agents and nukes fit the bill. Bill. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
