Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Nov 3 17:34, cyg Simple wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz yselkow...@cygwin.com
wrote:
On 2014-11-03 16:14, cyg Simple wrote:
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
Yes, it does matter; Cygwin setup is the only supported method of creating
and managing a Cygwin installation. Please try again from scratch with
Cygwin setup and you will see that there is absolutely no need for a
/usr/share = /share mount.
Are you saying setup or some post install file doesn't mount
/usr/share?
It's not necessary. Setup-${arch}.exe creates the default directory
layout.
If a mounted /usr/share isn't important then why is
/usr/bin and /usr/lib automounted?
Two reasons:
- Windows.
DLLs are found in the directory of the application even if $PATH
doesn't point to the directory containing the DLL. cygwin1.dll and
all other cygwin DLLs are in the same path as the essential binaries
so that you can start them from Windows even if $PATH is not set to
contain Cygwin's /bin. If we had separate /bin and /usr/bin dirs, we
would have the essential binaries spread over two directories, but the
cygwin DLLs in only one of them, or worse, spread over two dirs as
well. Hilarity ensues.
- GCC.
GCC generates the path to certain files under the lib dir relative to
the path it has been started from. So, if you run /bin/gcc, it searches
for the files under /lib, if you start /usr/bin/gcc it searches under
/usr/lib. Since you can do both, you have to handle lib just as bin.
There was never a need to do that for any other directory, that's why
we don't have /sbin = /usr/sbin as Fedora.
Corinna
--
Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
On Nov 3 17:34, cyg Simple wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
On 2014-11-03 16:14, cyg Simple wrote:
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
Yes, it does matter; Cygwin setup is the only supported method of creating
and managing a Cygwin installation. Please try again from scratch with
Cygwin setup and you will see that there is absolutely no need for a
/usr/share = /share mount.
Are you saying setup or some post install file doesn't mount
/usr/share?
It's not necessary. Setup-${arch}.exe creates the default directory
layout.
If a mounted /usr/share isn't important then why is
/usr/bin and /usr/lib automounted?
Two reasons:
- Windows.
DLLs are found in the directory of the application even if $PATH
doesn't point to the directory containing the DLL. cygwin1.dll and
all other cygwin DLLs are in the same path as the essential binaries
so that you can start them from Windows even if $PATH is not set to
contain Cygwin's /bin. If we had separate /bin and /usr/bin dirs, we
would have the essential binaries spread over two directories, but the
cygwin DLLs in only one of them, or worse, spread over two dirs as
well. Hilarity ensues.
- GCC.
GCC generates the path to certain files under the lib dir relative to
the path it has been started from. So, if you run /bin/gcc, it searches
for the files under /lib, if you start /usr/bin/gcc it searches under
/usr/lib. Since you can do both, you have to handle lib just as bin.
There was never a need to do that for any other directory, that's why
we don't have /sbin = /usr/sbin as Fedora.
But /usr/share is used by the terminfo library to find the files that
define TERM=cygwin or whatever value it has. Without the mount of
/usr/share then the terminal doesn't know how to handle things like
the Backspace key when deleting characters.
If /usr is mounted to the PREFIX/usr directory and PREFIX/usr/lib does
not exist the issue becomes one of a confusing file or directory not
found message. My suggestion would be to automount /usr pointing to
PREFIX/usr instead of adding another specific directory of /usr/share;
one never knows when some other reason exists to have another one. If
that isn't acceptable at least add the /usr/share automount, please.
It would eliminate the plethora of email and forum posts asking why
the Backspace key doesn't work.
--
cyg Simple
--
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Nov 4 09:42, cyg Simple wrote:
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
On Nov 3 17:34, cyg Simple wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
On 2014-11-03 16:14, cyg Simple wrote:
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
Yes, it does matter; Cygwin setup is the only supported method of
creating
and managing a Cygwin installation. Please try again from scratch with
Cygwin setup and you will see that there is absolutely no need for a
/usr/share = /share mount.
Are you saying setup or some post install file doesn't mount
/usr/share?
It's not necessary. Setup-${arch}.exe creates the default directory
layout.
If a mounted /usr/share isn't important then why is
/usr/bin and /usr/lib automounted?
Two reasons:
- Windows.
DLLs are found in the directory of the application even if $PATH
doesn't point to the directory containing the DLL. cygwin1.dll and
all other cygwin DLLs are in the same path as the essential binaries
so that you can start them from Windows even if $PATH is not set to
contain Cygwin's /bin. If we had separate /bin and /usr/bin dirs, we
would have the essential binaries spread over two directories, but the
cygwin DLLs in only one of them, or worse, spread over two dirs as
well. Hilarity ensues.
- GCC.
GCC generates the path to certain files under the lib dir relative to
the path it has been started from. So, if you run /bin/gcc, it searches
for the files under /lib, if you start /usr/bin/gcc it searches under
/usr/lib. Since you can do both, you have to handle lib just as bin.
There was never a need to do that for any other directory, that's why
we don't have /sbin = /usr/sbin as Fedora.
But /usr/share is used by the terminfo library to find the files that
define TERM=cygwin or whatever value it has. Without the mount of
/usr/share then the terminal doesn't know how to handle things like
the Backspace key when deleting characters.
If /usr is mounted to the PREFIX/usr directory and PREFIX/usr/lib does
not exist the issue becomes one of a confusing file or directory not
found message. My suggestion would be to automount /usr pointing to
PREFIX/usr instead of adding another specific directory of /usr/share;
one never knows when some other reason exists to have another one. If
that isn't acceptable at least add the /usr/share automount, please.
It would eliminate the plethora of email and forum posts asking why
the Backspace key doesn't work.
Nope. The problem you're encountering is homemade. /usr/share is a
normal directory just like /usr. There's no reason at all to mount
anything there. If your installation doesn't have /usr/share, your
installation is clearly broken and given that you didn't use setup
to install it, it's really just a case of PEBCAK.
Corinna
--
Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: Nope. The problem you're encountering is homemade. /usr/share is a normal directory just like /usr. There's no reason at all to mount anything there. If your installation doesn't have /usr/share, your installation is clearly broken and given that you didn't use setup to install it, it's really just a case of PEBCAK. I wasn't asking for help; I have a working install. I was stating the possibility of making Cygwin better. Too bad that one cannot simply extract the archives and must depend on the blind use of setup.exe. -- cyg Simple -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On 2014-11-04 09:19, cyg Simple wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: Nope. The problem you're encountering is homemade. /usr/share is a normal directory just like /usr. There's no reason at all to mount anything there. If your installation doesn't have /usr/share, your installation is clearly broken and given that you didn't use setup to install it, it's really just a case of PEBCAK. I wasn't asking for help; I have a working install. I was stating the possibility of making Cygwin better. Too bad that one cannot simply extract the archives and must depend on the blind use of setup.exe. Blind use? Cygwin setup is, like the rest of Cygwin, open source: https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.html Yaakov -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: Nope. The problem you're encountering is homemade. /usr/share is a normal directory just like /usr. There's no reason at all to mount anything there. If your installation doesn't have /usr/share, your installation is clearly broken and given that you didn't use setup to install it, it's really just a case of PEBCAK. I wasn't asking for help; I have a working install. I was stating the possibility of making Cygwin better. Too bad that one cannot simply extract the archives and must depend on the blind use of setup.exe. You've now more than worn out your welcome with this line of questioning. The answer has been explained to you multiple times. If you don't like the answer, you're free to leave. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
cyg Simple writes: I wasn't asking for help; I have a working install. I was stating the possibility of making Cygwin better. You haven't made an argument in which way having /usr/share be a mount point would be an improvement over the current situation where it is simply a directory. Too bad that one cannot simply extract the archives and must depend on the blind use of setup.exe. You can look at the source code for setup to learn exactly how it is working. I manually extract package archives all the time to install packages from the build environment into a separate test installation. The only two mounts you need to provide are $PREFIX/bin = $PREFIX/usr/bin $PREFIX/lib = $PREFIX/usr/lib just like setup.exe does. You still cannot simply extract the archives since you also need to take care about preremove and postinstall scripts plus the housekeeping in $PREFIX/etc/setup/. BTW, as Andrew already said, there is no /share in any of the packages, only /usr/share. If you want to do something else than setup.exe, you'd need to create your own packages anyway. Regards, Achim. -- +[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]+ Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
I want to wrap this up by first stating that I now understand why you think /usr/share exists and why I stated it does not and to perhaps help some other confused person looking at just the archive files. I extracted the archives and found PREFIX/usr and PREFIX/etc. Since the bin directory existed in PREFIX/usr I simply moved PREFIX/etc to PREFIX/usr/etc. Everything worked fine except that /usr/share wasn't found but /share was found. Using the setup process PREFIX/usr/bin and PREFIX/usr/lib are moved to PREFIX/ so that now when you start Cygwin /usr/share exists but /share doesn't. Now in my hand created self-extracted version I just move the two directories and everything works as expected. But I'm left wondering why the tar files are create with usr/bin/ and usr/lib/ instead of bin/ and lib/. I'm not asking for an explanation of that so please don't belabor the subject further. -- cyg Simple -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On 11/04/2014 05:54 PM, cyg Simple wrote: I want to wrap this up by first stating that I now understand why you think /usr/share exists and why I stated it does not and to perhaps help some other confused person looking at just the archive files. I extracted the archives and found PREFIX/usr and PREFIX/etc. Since the bin directory existed in PREFIX/usr I simply moved PREFIX/etc to PREFIX/usr/etc. Everything worked fine except that /usr/share wasn't found but /share was found. Using the setup process PREFIX/usr/bin and PREFIX/usr/lib are moved to PREFIX/ so that now when you start Cygwin /usr/share exists but /share doesn't. Now in my hand created self-extracted version I just move the two directories and everything works as expected. But I'm left wondering why the tar files are create with usr/bin/ and usr/lib/ instead of bin/ and lib/. I'm not asking for an explanation of that so please don't belabor the subject further. I'm glad you wrapped this up with a synopsis that you believe clarifies why you weren't following the explanation from others on the list. For my part, what I gathered from this thread was that there was some confusion about the contents of some packages. In an effort to provide a simple answer to that (for posterity), I want to point out that there's the package search tool at the Cygwin website which shows you exactly what you get and how it's organized when you extract it. This tool is here: https://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-grep.cgi In this thread, I believe the discussion has been referring to the contents of the cygwin package and the terminfo package. Here are links to a listing of the contents of each of these packages: https://cygwin.com/packages/x86_64/cygwin/cygwin-1.7.31-3 https://cygwin.com/packages/x86_64/terminfo/terminfo-5.9-4 If nothing else, I hope anyone looking at this thread can now solve the mystery of what files are in any package and how they are organized when you extract them. It is certainly useful to have access to this information and the Cygwin site provides this very convenient way to see it, without downloading anything. -- Larry _ A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
There's no /share directory in a standard Cygwin installation. /usr is
a real dir within your Cygwin installation dir. It doesn't have to be
mounted, nor does /usr/share, which is also created by setup-${arch}.exe
by default.
So straight out of the archive, we have a PREFIX/usr directory which
contains a few other items including a share/ directory. If you now
start Cygwin the output of /bin/mount will show /usr/bin and /usr/lib
are automounted. That is not true for /usr/share. This causes the
terminal interface to be broken because /usr/share/terminfo cannot be
found. If I then 'mount `cygpath -m /` /usr' the terminal interface
finds /usr/share/terminfo and all is fine and works well.
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
--
cyg Simple
--
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On 2014-11-03 16:14, cyg Simple wrote:
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
Yes, it does matter; Cygwin setup is the only supported method of
creating and managing a Cygwin installation. Please try again from
scratch with Cygwin setup and you will see that there is absolutely no
need for a /usr/share = /share mount.
Yaakov
--
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz yselkow...@cygwin.com wrote:
On 2014-11-03 16:14, cyg Simple wrote:
It is true that I am not using setup-${arch}.exe but that shouldn't
matter as long as I have the dependencies resolved.
Yes, it does matter; Cygwin setup is the only supported method of creating
and managing a Cygwin installation. Please try again from scratch with
Cygwin setup and you will see that there is absolutely no need for a
/usr/share = /share mount.
Are you saying setup or some post install file doesn't mount
/usr/share? If a mounted /usr/share isn't important then why is
/usr/bin and /usr/lib automounted?
--
cyg Simple
--
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andrew Schulman schulman.and...@epa.gov wrote: I have found that terminfo is built such that it requires /usr/share to be available but /usr/share isn't mounted by default. This causes unexpected side effects of the terminal not responding properly especially noticed when using the Backspace key. In my opinion either terminfo needs to change its settings to use /share instead of /usr/share or Cygwin needs modified to automatically mount /usr/share like it does /usr/lib. Or rather just automount /usr such that it points to / regardless of the underlying directory. The automount of /usr/lib also presents an issue when the user mounts /usr to point to `cygpath -m /` in that any access to /usr gives a directory not found error when /lib doesn't actually exist. /usr/share isn't mounted separately, at least in any Cygwin installation I've ever had. It's just a directory within /usr, which is within the mount /. But not automounted within the cygwin1.dll initialization process. Only /usr/bin and /usr/lib are. At least with 1.7.32. Moreover /usr/share should always exist, since many base packages store files in it. Does it not exist in your installation? Do you have e.g. /usr/share/doc? /usr/share doesn't exist unless /usr or /usr/share is mounted via /etc/fstab. /share does exist. -- cyg Simple -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Oct 31 16:55, cyg Simple wrote:
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andrew Schulman
schulman.and...@epa.gov wrote:
I have found that terminfo is built such that it requires /usr/share
to be available but /usr/share isn't mounted by default. This causes
unexpected side effects of the terminal not responding properly
especially noticed when using the Backspace key. In my opinion either
terminfo needs to change its settings to use /share instead of
/usr/share or Cygwin needs modified to automatically mount /usr/share
like it does /usr/lib. Or rather just automount /usr such that it
points to / regardless of the underlying directory. The automount of
/usr/lib also presents an issue when the user mounts /usr to point to
`cygpath -m /` in that any access to /usr gives a directory not found
error when /lib doesn't actually exist.
/usr/share isn't mounted separately, at least in any Cygwin installation
I've ever had. It's just a directory within /usr, which is within the
mount /.
But not automounted within the cygwin1.dll initialization process.
Only /usr/bin and /usr/lib are. At least with 1.7.32.
Moreover /usr/share should always exist, since many base packages store
files in it. Does it not exist in your installation? Do you have e.g.
/usr/share/doc?
/usr/share doesn't exist unless /usr or /usr/share is mounted via
/etc/fstab. /share does exist.
There's no /share directory in a standard Cygwin installation. /usr is
a real dir within your Cygwin installation dir. It doesn't have to be
mounted, nor does /usr/share, which is also created by setup-${arch}.exe
by default.
Corinna
--
Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat
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Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Andrew Schulman schulman.and...@epa.gov wrote: I have found that terminfo is built such that it requires /usr/share to be available but /usr/share isn't mounted by default. This causes unexpected side effects of the terminal not responding properly especially noticed when using the Backspace key. In my opinion either terminfo needs to change its settings to use /share instead of /usr/share or Cygwin needs modified to automatically mount /usr/share like it does /usr/lib. Or rather just automount /usr such that it points to / regardless of the underlying directory. The automount of /usr/lib also presents an issue when the user mounts /usr to point to `cygpath -m /` in that any access to /usr gives a directory not found error when /lib doesn't actually exist. /usr/share isn't mounted separately, at least in any Cygwin installation I've ever had. It's just a directory within /usr, which is within the mount /. But not automounted within the cygwin1.dll initialization process. Only /usr/bin and /usr/lib are. At least with 1.7.32. Moreover /usr/share should always exist, since many base packages store files in it. Does it not exist in your installation? Do you have e.g. /usr/share/doc? /usr/share doesn't exist unless /usr or /usr/share is mounted via /etc/fstab. /share does exist. You have a strange installation. In every Cygwin installation I've ever had, /usr and /usr/share are not mounted separately and there's no /share. You may want to consider deleting your current Cygwin installation, and starting with a fresh one. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
I have found that terminfo is built such that it requires /usr/share to be available but /usr/share isn't mounted by default. This causes unexpected side effects of the terminal not responding properly especially noticed when using the Backspace key. In my opinion either terminfo needs to change its settings to use /share instead of /usr/share or Cygwin needs modified to automatically mount /usr/share like it does /usr/lib. Or rather just automount /usr such that it points to / regardless of the underlying directory. The automount of /usr/lib also presents an issue when the user mounts /usr to point to `cygpath -m /` in that any access to /usr gives a directory not found error when /lib doesn't actually exist. cyg Simple -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Re: terminfo and /usr/share/terminfo requirement
I have found that terminfo is built such that it requires /usr/share to be available but /usr/share isn't mounted by default. This causes unexpected side effects of the terminal not responding properly especially noticed when using the Backspace key. In my opinion either terminfo needs to change its settings to use /share instead of /usr/share or Cygwin needs modified to automatically mount /usr/share like it does /usr/lib. Or rather just automount /usr such that it points to / regardless of the underlying directory. The automount of /usr/lib also presents an issue when the user mounts /usr to point to `cygpath -m /` in that any access to /usr gives a directory not found error when /lib doesn't actually exist. /usr/share isn't mounted separately, at least in any Cygwin installation I've ever had. It's just a directory within /usr, which is within the mount /. Moreover /usr/share should always exist, since many base packages store files in it. Does it not exist in your installation? Do you have e.g. /usr/share/doc? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
