Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Tim Thomson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 02:30, Rasjid Wilcox wrote: Strangely enough, I was planning to start work on project again this month, and perhaps even this weekend, with my first step being to do the script to configure XDMCP access on a 'standard' linux distribution. Hehe, finding a standard linux distrib could be fun :) Typical might be a better term. I know from experience that both RedHat 7.2, and debian Woody/Testing, comes with XDMCP against remote machines turned off. Do you mean a script to enable an xdm type server for accepting remote connections? This would be a great idea! Yup. :-) Kind of tricky though, with xdm, kdm, and gdm all doing this, but using different locations, and ach distribution probably puts the config files in different locations as well :) Yup. :-/
RE: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
I'm trying to run gdbx, and I need cygwinb19.dll to do it. Where can I find that file? I've tried renaming to cygwin1.dll to cygwinb19.dll, but when gdbx starts, the CPU goes to 100% load and gdbx never appears, so that doesn't work. TIA
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Or. Use the current name with the knowledge that the people we are targeting at aren't going to want to use a 3rd party launcher app at the same time as their cygwin distro. Honestly, We aren't targetting at developers. We are targetting at schools / govt offices who need access to x-based apps as a intermediate step to linux desktops. And although I appreciate your comments, the out and out criticism really isn't that helpful. Do you expect every administrator that wants to install cygwin on umpteen boxes to set up a custom cygwin install script and site-specific batch files to use the cygwin X server? That's elitist. Regards, Ben Nolan - Original Message - From: Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Tim Thomson' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'cygwin-xfree Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:17 PM Subject: RE: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tim Thomson Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 2:44 PM There is much work I need to do on this, but I have exams for the next week so won't get much of a chance. One of my main concerns is that our current install modifies the registry keys used by cygwin, so installing it will break an existing setup (although is quite easy to fix, it is messy). Yes, this is bad. TODO: Recompile cygwin1.dll to look in a different registry location, so we don't use the same location as cygwin. Currently our install modifies the cygwin registry keys, so will break an existing install. You will also need to: * Change the shared segment name, or you will break existing installs at runtime. * Change the dll name, as the install you are proposing is not compatible with the cygwin net distribution. * Recompile *everything* to use the new .dll name. OR Just leverage the cygwin setup program, and let all the pain go away. Rob
RE: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Thanks for the replies. The idea is to end up with an X server that is small and easy to use. I'd like to use the existing cygwin setup.exe, as it is very nice, but I don't want to end up with a full cygwin setup. Basically I'm after something like X-Win32, MI/x, or WinaXe, but based on cygwin-xfree, so is free and works well. If you want to use XDMCP to connect to a unix server only, you don't need a full cygwin install. On Sat, 2002-06-15 at 20:17, Robert Collins wrote: You will also need to: * Change the shared segment name, or you will break existing installs at runtime. * Change the dll name, as the install you are proposing is not compatible with the cygwin net distribution. * Recompile *everything* to use the new .dll name. Everything would involve the cygwin dll, the couple of libraries used and the XFree server binary correct? People already running cygwin won't need this distribution. I will modify our launcher program soon so it will launch X on an already existing cygwin setup. (What this launcher program does is give a dialog box to let the user select various settings for the XWin binary, then creates a .bat file which launches it). The distribution I am proposing would only be for use for people who didn't want a full cygwin-xfree setup. Cheers, Tim.
RE: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
On Sat, 2002-06-15 at 22:27, Robert Collins wrote: Sure. And a minimum cygwin install is all you'd get. Setup only installs the bare minimum - the 'base' category by default. No compilers, no 'optional' components at all. And even they can be deselected (but not be default). Hmmm, I first installed cygwin-xfree before it was incorporated into the setup.exe system, but have now used the setup.exe to install on another system as well. I found that it was very hard to reduce the size of the install, as many things depend on many others. I was hoping I wouldn't need to recompile everything for every new version, as downloading sources, then getting everything to go for each new update would be a lot harder than finding recent versions of cygwin1.dll and XWin.exe, adding them to the distribution and providing a new version of the download. Perhaps we could check if cygwin is already installed, and refuse to install if it is. We could also have warnings saying not to install both at the same time. This would mean we could use the standard binary and libraries, just repackaged. I wonder which would prove to be the biggest hassle. It may prove more productive to recompile everything, if only to separate the two, so people wouldn't get confused. Thanks for your input, Tim.
RE: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tim Thomson Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 8:54 PM Hmmm, I first installed cygwin-xfree before it was incorporated into the setup.exe system, but have now used the setup.exe to install on another system as well. I found that it was very hard to reduce the size of the install, as many things depend on many others. Yes. The X install is relatively heavy. I was thinking that you can do the following: Setup your own setup.ini. In that include a package (say XFree86-XDMCP-minimal) for your cut-down X install, minus all the cygwin infrastructure. DON'T include anything with a name the same as cygwin's setup.ini. Include dependency listings that your package has on cygwin packages - should any exist (i.e. various font packages may be useful). Anything that your can't separate out usefully enough, include the content in your package' tarball, OR ask Harold if he is able to split the package out a little. Then tell your users to run setup.exe, add your mirror site to the mirrors list, and to select an official cygwin mirror as well. That should be much smaller, and Perhaps we could check if cygwin is already installed, and refuse to install if it is. We could also have warnings saying not to install both at the same time. This would mean we could use the standard binary and libraries, just repackaged. That would help. I suspect you'll still get folk installing cygwin on top, but at least a one-way check helps a lot. Cheers, Rob
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
I'd thought I mention that this has been done before, by both myself and Matthew Donald. Both done in the time before the option to install X via setup.exe. My versions are available at http://www.webone.com.au/~rasjidw/WinXTerm-0.32.zip http://www.webone.com.au/~rasjidw/WinXTerm-0.4-Test53.zip with the original website for the project at http://lasp.sourceforge.net/winxterm/. Both of my versions are *very* outdated now, as I had put the project on hold until such time as X was installable via setup.exe. I had essentially decided to take Robert's approach, but have had no time over the last few months now the setup.exe option is available. The main reason I decided to go with the setup.exe option is due to the 'you can't have two versions of cygwin.dll running at the same time' problem. And in fact you can use setup.exe and still only have a 5-6 MB download (assuming you don't install fonts etc and don't actually want anything more than X and bash to work or be available). Doland's project is at http://sourceforge.net/projects/winfree86/, as was also delphi based. I don't think he has done anything on it since January, although I have not had any recent contact with him. Strangely enough, I was planning to start work on project again this month, and perhaps even this weekend, with my first step being to do the script to configure XDMCP access on a 'standard' linux distribution. My planned second step was to then create a 'wizard' that would only download the components you need (much less than even a base level cygwin install) and then use setup.exe to install them. Unfortunately I don't know C or C++, and so was planning to do the install wizard in either python and wxWindows or Java and Swing. If someone want to do a 'native' windows version, that would be fine by me. I'd be more than happy just to play bug-tester etc. Once I got this far, I was going to talk to Robert about possible ways to enable 'non-cygwin packaged' programs to talk to and utilise setup.exe. I have noticed that a number of open source Linux/Unix programs have their windows version using the cygwin dll, but don't use setup.exe. It only takes two of these programs to be using sufficiently different versions of the cygwin dll for things to start breaking. This worries me quite a bit, as what will happen is that people will simply say 'Oh damn, this open source product is buggy. I'll go back to using closed source software, it works better.' For example, MySQL use the cygwin dll for their windows port (see http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-3.23.html) but they are using cygwin 1.3.9 not the current version. This could cause problems in the future if someone does not keep their mysql setup up to date but also uses Cygwin and does keep it up to date (or vice-versa). Because of the above, I think it is important to have a XDMCP only version of Cgywin-XFree86 that does sit within the setup.exe framework. If no-one else does this version, then I will, but I can't guarantee exactly when. If someone else is going to do it anyway, then I wont, as I have plenty of other things I can be doing. ;-) Anyway, enough of my ravings for the evening. It is late and I should be asleep. Cheers, Rasjid.
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:30 am, Rasjid Wilcox wrote: For example, MySQL use the cygwin dll for their windows port (see http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-3.23.html) but they are using cygwin 1.3.9 not the current version. This could cause problems in the future if someone does not keep their mysql setup up to date but also uses Cygwin and does keep it up to date (or vice-versa). Actually, I just checked a bit more carefully. They host the source for cygwin 1.3.9, but it looks to me like the actual dll they use is B19 (or at least, it is named cygwinb19.dll - perhaps they have a more recent one and just name it that for compatibility??). Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but won't this potentially cause serious problems if someone is running mysql (assuming it really is using B19) and also tries to run an up-to-date cygwin install? Rasjid.
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Robert Collins wrote: Yes. The X install is relatively heavy. I was thinking that you can do the following: Setup your own setup.ini. In that include a package (say XFree86-XDMCP-minimal) for your cut-down X install, minus all the cygwin infrastructure. DON'T include anything with a name the same as cygwin's setup.ini. Include dependency listings that your package has on cygwin packages - should any exist (i.e. various font packages may be useful). Anything that your can't separate out usefully enough, include the content in your package' tarball, OR ask Harold if he is able to split the package out a little. I'm sure some people with a cygwin install would be interested in a cut-down XFree86 install with only XDMCP support. Then tell your users to run setup.exe, add your mirror site to the mirrors list, and to select an official cygwin mirror as well. That should be much smaller, and If they really want a small custom install, couldn't they create a custom setup.ini with only the cygwin packages they want. Put that on a web site to be used instead of a cygwin mirror. BTW, is there any way to automate setup.exe so that users don't have to answer all the questions? setup.exe is great for flexibity with different options for getting and selecting packages. For a school install, the location and packages can be fixed in advanced and the questions reduced to the minimum. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 02:30, Rasjid Wilcox wrote: The main reason I decided to go with the setup.exe option is due to the 'you can't have two versions of cygwin.dll running at the same time' problem. And in fact you can use setup.exe and still only have a 5-6 MB download (assuming you don't install fonts etc and don't actually want anything more than X and bash to work or be available). I had a play at doing this. Installing just the cygwin, zlib, update-info-dir, and Xfree86-xserv packages brought the total size on disk to just over 7Mb. The base cygwin package still has a lot of files unneeded here, all we really want is cygwin1.dll. All we need in the zlib package is cygz.dll, but there are a bunch of help files, .a files, etc as well. After culling the unneeded files, I got the total down to 3.7Mb. On top of this we need to add a couple of fonts, and a few configuration files, and any X libraries we wanted. Strangely enough, I was planning to start work on project again this month, and perhaps even this weekend, with my first step being to do the script to configure XDMCP access on a 'standard' linux distribution. Hehe, finding a standard linux distrib could be fun :) Do you mean a script to enable an xdm type server for accepting remote connections? This would be a great idea! Kind of tricky though, with xdm, kdm, and gdm all doing this, but using different locations, and ach distribution probably puts the config files in different locations as well :) I was looking at working on enabling esd sound for a user logging in remotely. My planned second step was to then create a 'wizard' that would only download the components you need (much less than even a base level cygwin install) and then use setup.exe to install them. Unfortunately I don't know C or C++, and so was planning to do the install wizard in either python and wxWindows or Java and Swing. If someone want to do a 'native' windows version, that would be fine by me. I'd be more than happy just to play bug-tester etc. This would be nice, as a 'wizard' type install is what I'm wanting. It doesn't help much in terms of size though, as there would be a lot of redundant files still installed (for this application). Once I got this far, I was going to talk to Robert about possible ways to enable 'non-cygwin packaged' programs to talk to and utilise setup.exe. I have noticed that a number of open source Linux/Unix programs have their windows version using the cygwin dll, but don't use setup.exe. It only takes two of these programs to be using sufficiently different versions of the cygwin dll for things to start breaking. This worries me quite a bit, as This is a good idea. I was trying to work out a way of using the /usr/local directories. If the initial install program couldn't find an existing cygwin install, then it could use it's own version of the cygwin libs. If it did find one, perhaps it could install everything into the /usr/local directories? Or perhaps put itself in the standard X locations, then create a package .lst file, etc. Is this enough though? If it had done an install without cygwin, and then someone had installed cygwin later, then the X launcher program could modify the path our XWin binary got, so that it would use the new cygwin install. There would be some issues here, maybe it would be better to give a warning that cygwin had been installed, and that our package needed to be reinstalled? Ideally I want to have it so that it inter-operates nicely with a cygwin install, but can also install and function without cygwin, so there are just the minimum required files needed, to reduce the overall size. Because of the above, I think it is important to have a XDMCP only version of Cgywin-XFree86 that does sit within the setup.exe framework. If no-one else I agree. I don't know if mine will do this entirely, as I would like to offer a cut down cygwin as well as cut down xfree. Perhaps I could release both, I will have to see how I go for time. I should get around to packaging the launcher program for setup.exe. It is a GPL delphi app, there is no problem doing this? I would install it to /usr/X11R6/bin ? Can I get setup.exe to create an icon on the desktop or in the start menu? I won't get a chance to do much this week, I have exams until Saturday, so will be rather busy :) Cheers, Tim.
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
At 11:01 AM 6/15/2002, Rasjid Wilcox wrote: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 12:30 am, Rasjid Wilcox wrote: For example, MySQL use the cygwin dll for their windows port (see http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-3.23.html) but they are using cygwin 1.3.9 not the current version. This could cause problems in the future if someone does not keep their mysql setup up to date but also uses Cygwin and does keep it up to date (or vice-versa). Actually, I just checked a bit more carefully. They host the source for cygwin 1.3.9, but it looks to me like the actual dll they use is B19 (or at least, it is named cygwinb19.dll - perhaps they have a more recent one and just name it that for compatibility??). It's possible. cygwin1.dll is binary compatible with B19 so they might just slip in a more current Cygwin DLL by renaming cygwin1.dll to cygwinb19.dll. This avoids a recompile and uses the new DLL. There are other ways around this (like editing the binary and replacing all occurrences of cygwinb19.dll with cygwin1.dll - spacing is important!) But a simple recompile and relink is the best course of action. With B19 so far in the past, it makes no sense to force these contortions/problems on users, assuming they are still using the B19 DLL in name at least. You'd do well to ask them about this. Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but won't this potentially cause serious problems if someone is running mysql (assuming it really is using B19) and also tries to run an up-to-date cygwin install? You're not wrong. Larry Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] RFK Partners, Inc. http://www.rfk.com 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office Holliston, MA 01746 (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Hi there, My flatmate and I have been playing with creating a minimal install of cygwin-xfree. We culled files until we ended up with XWin.exe, a bunch of libraries, and a few fonts. We included also ttmkfdir.exe and mkfontdir.exe, so we can add more fonts later, and use the windows fonts. My flatmate has also written a delphi app, which runs the XWin binary with some options you can set on a preferences screen. It needs a little more work, but is quite useable. It is currently built around our set-up, so will need to be modified to support a normal cygwin-xfree install. We have packaged the above using a setup program called Inno Setup, available at: http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php Currently the archive including installer and launcher program come to just under 2.5Mb, and installs to about 5.5Mb. There is much work I need to do on this, but I have exams for the next week so won't get much of a chance. One of my main concerns is that our current install modifies the registry keys used by cygwin, so installing it will break an existing setup (although is quite easy to fix, it is messy). If you do want to look at what we have so far, you can grab http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/bennolan/setup.exe and have a play. Note it is messy, as it will change cygwin's registry keys. TODO: Recompile cygwin1.dll to look in a different registry location, so we don't use the same location as cygwin. Currently our install modifies the cygwin registry keys, so will break an existing install. Win95 support. Not sure why it isn't going yet. Need to investigate more. Fonts included. To reduce size, we have the bare minimum fonts included, but it can use fonts from within windows. Fix the launcher program. Currently doesn't save and restore settings correctly from registry, doesn't let the user specify a font server, and has odd defaults for the XDMCP server to connect to :) Make sure uninstall removes /tmp/* and other files created. Include esd.exe from http://www.kiss.taihaku.sendai.jp/~fuji/product/20001127/ , so we can use sound. Perhaps recompile to use cygwin dlls rather than mingw32, and see if there is a later version somewhere than this :) It's a little noisy too, and buffered. Need to work out if there are any configuration parameters we can play with. Add license file to launcher program to say that it is GPL. What are the .a files? Are they linked from the .dlls? Are they used by XWin.exe, or is it just the .dlls? I created a sourceforge project yesterday for this to make it accessible, but uploaded anything to it yet. That will be a job for the week after next. Questions, comments, advice, etc? Cheers, Tim.
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Tim Thomson wrote: Recompile cygwin1.dll to look in a different registry location, so we don't use the same location as cygwin. Currently our install modifies the cygwin registry keys, so will break an existing install. Why don't you just make a cygwin package for the stripped down xfree? Most people are going to want some of the cygwin packages. You can make a custom setup.ini that just installs the cygwin dll and stripped xfree. At least don't modify any existing cygwin registry keys. Using the same keys would work as long as it cooperates with an existing or later cygwin install. Fonts included. To reduce size, we have the bare minimum fonts included, but it can use fonts from within windows. One option is using XDMCP is set a font server on the remote machine and use the remote fonts. What are the .a files? Are they linked from the .dlls? Are they used by XWin.exe, or is it just the .dlls? They are used to link programs with the X libraries. They aren't required to run the programs. They really shouldn't be in the XFree86-bin package and belong in the XFree86-devel package. But they are small so it doesn't make much difference. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
