Re: List Status

[Tom Busby]

Messages would get sent to spam if it weren't for a filter I've created. So
yes, this is a common issue.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 at 18:12, Karl  wrote:

> Hey Greg,
>
> Can you confirm that people _subscribed_ to the list experience a spam
> filter now?  I thought my emails were getting spammed due to not being
> subscribed, but it turns out this address is, actually, subscribed; I
> was told this when I attempted subscribing.
>
> In other news, I haven't been receiving mails from the list recently
> (recent mails in the archive aren't in my inbox yet), not sure if it
> matters.
>
> Karl
>

Re: Missing video from Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide.

[Tom Busby]

Cheers for the response.

If any of you find anything new, if you emailed me directly, I'd be really
grateful (i.e. not to the list in case I miss it due to my filter).

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 19:18, Greg Newby  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 06:56:42PM +0100, Tom Busby wrote:
> > can i confirm that this is the Venona archive merged with the 2000-2016
> > archive from this post:
> >
> > https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2018-July/042515.html
>
> Yes, exactly. There are some notes about sources, linked in via the
> listinfo page.
>
> > i.e. that we don't have a new, overlapping archive of the 90s period? I'm
> > assuming venona is still the only game in town for the 90s period.
>
> Correct. The venona .zip contents I used are dated 2003. Cryptome has a
> copy dated 2010 that is only different by a few bytes.
>
> We have not heard of other archives covering 1992-1998. All the other
> online archives seem to trace back to the same source.
>
> Something that is unfortunate about this is that, at the time, there were
> a bunch of different remailers (the number varied over time, but seems to
> have typically been around a half-dozen). Each CDR's archive would have
> been different: different spam, different headers and slight variations in
> time stamps.
>
> It seems that none of the other CDR archives are available, at least
> publicly. Only the venona one. This is part of why Jim has been reaching
> out to some of those CDR operators, and also long-time list subscribers.
> Any other archive would be expected to have material differences, at least
> with headers & spam.
>
> BTW, I joined the list in 2001, at the tail of the period above (and was
> on a couple of different CDRs over time). In the quest for archives from
> the 1990s I am an interested party, but not a source of any original
> materials.
>
>  - Greg
>
>
> > On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 18:54, Tom Busby  wrote:
> >
> > > oh fantastic, thank you very much. looks great.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 04:00, Greg Newby  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dear Tom,
> > >>
> > >> You might be interested to see that I recently merged the archives.
> (I am
> > >> the current list operator.) You can find it browsable and a few other
> > >> formats. This spans September 1992-July 2013 in the cypherpunks-legacy
> > >> collection.
> > >>
> > >> The current (ongoing) list is in the main cypherpunks collection, from
> > >> 2013-present. They are both here:
> > >>
> > >>   https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo
> > >>
> > >> Announcement/description:
> > >>
> > >>
> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2019-December/078230.html
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >>   Greg
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 09:41:57PM +0100, Tom Busby wrote:
> > >> > I'm just a guy with a website. Believe me, it saddens me that so
> much is
> > >> > lost, that's why I originally started trying to piece it all
> together,
> > >> but
> > >> > my leads ran cold, and if you go look at the commit logs for crypto
> > >> > anarchy.wiki you'll see how little time I've had to work on it
> lately.
> > >> >
> > >> > In terms of whether this is deliberate forgery or just lost data, I
> > >> have no
> > >> > way of finding out because I don't have other copies of the archive
> to
> > >> > compare with. That's the only way to do it. And even then I can only
> > >> detect
> > >> > tampering, not innocent loss of data. I was under ten years old
> during
> > >> this
> > >> > period so I'm flying blind in terms of what it should look like.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not a player in this drama, I'm just a guy who is mirroring
> what's
> > >> > available so that isn't lost too.
> > >> >
> > >> > I simply don't have the time to help you at the moment. I have too
> many
> > >> > other commitments. I haven't even found time to merge the
> 1999-onwards
> > >> > archive.
> > >> >
> > >> > If you find a lead on any of it, let me know. As far as I can tell,
> Ryan
> > >> > Lackey is the only one who can help you. This archive originates on
> > >> Venona.
> > >> > That I'm pretty sure about. If he won't respond to you, I don't know
> > >> what
> > >> &

Re: Missing video from Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide.

[Tom Busby]

can i confirm that this is the Venona archive merged with the 2000-2016
archive from this post:

https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2018-July/042515.html

i.e. that we don't have a new, overlapping archive of the 90s period? I'm
assuming venona is still the only game in town for the 90s period.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 18:54, Tom Busby  wrote:

> oh fantastic, thank you very much. looks great.
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 04:00, Greg Newby  wrote:
>
>> Dear Tom,
>>
>> You might be interested to see that I recently merged the archives. (I am
>> the current list operator.) You can find it browsable and a few other
>> formats. This spans September 1992-July 2013 in the cypherpunks-legacy
>> collection.
>>
>> The current (ongoing) list is in the main cypherpunks collection, from
>> 2013-present. They are both here:
>>
>>   https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> Announcement/description:
>>
>> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2019-December/078230.html
>>
>> Best,
>>   Greg
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 09:41:57PM +0100, Tom Busby wrote:
>> > I'm just a guy with a website. Believe me, it saddens me that so much is
>> > lost, that's why I originally started trying to piece it all together,
>> but
>> > my leads ran cold, and if you go look at the commit logs for crypto
>> > anarchy.wiki you'll see how little time I've had to work on it lately.
>> >
>> > In terms of whether this is deliberate forgery or just lost data, I
>> have no
>> > way of finding out because I don't have other copies of the archive to
>> > compare with. That's the only way to do it. And even then I can only
>> detect
>> > tampering, not innocent loss of data. I was under ten years old during
>> this
>> > period so I'm flying blind in terms of what it should look like.
>> >
>> > I'm not a player in this drama, I'm just a guy who is mirroring what's
>> > available so that isn't lost too.
>> >
>> > I simply don't have the time to help you at the moment. I have too many
>> > other commitments. I haven't even found time to merge the 1999-onwards
>> > archive.
>> >
>> > If you find a lead on any of it, let me know. As far as I can tell, Ryan
>> > Lackey is the only one who can help you. This archive originates on
>> Venona.
>> > That I'm pretty sure about. If he won't respond to you, I don't know
>> what
>> > can be done. I really hope someone else finds an archive of this era,
>> > because it's the most important era for sure.
>> >
>> > But other than that, please bear in mind that I'm on your side. We both
>> > have the same goal: a complete, accurate archive. I've done what I can
>> so
>> > far. I won't have time to work on this actively in the near future.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, 20:27 jim bell,  wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Friday, January 3, 2020, 02:16:28 AM PST, Tom Busby
>> 
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >>And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't
>> > > seem to care
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >It's not that I don't care, I just don't know what I can do about it.
>> > > This appears to be the only copy of the archive available.
>> > >
>> > > >If anyone else has a more complete archive, send it to me and I'll
>> merge
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > You are thinking solely in terms of correcting the archive.   That's a
>> > > limited view.  I'm thinking of finding out who is responsible for the
>> > > well-planned omissions in the archive.  From where was the data
>> obtained?
>> > > When was the faking of the data done?   Who did it?  Why?
>> > > Who had control of the Cypherpunks list during the 1995-2003 time
>> frame?
>> > > Was the data stored elsewhere, such as the Wayback Machine?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >   Jim Bell
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 08:25, jim bell  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Jeffrey Epstein: Surveillance Video From First Suicide Attempt
>> Missinghttps://
>> www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jeffrey-epstein-surveillance-video-first-184510141.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jim Bell's comment:
>> > >
>> > > Missing, just like a few thousand postings to me, from me, about me,
>> and
>> > > any mentioning Assassination Politics in the 1995 Cypherpunks archive.
>> > >
>> > > And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't
>> seem
>> > > to care.  Neither does Brian Merchant nor Will Stephenson.
>> > >
>> > > Concealing the past by erasing the evidence is an old story.
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>

Re: Missing video from Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide.

[Tom Busby]

oh fantastic, thank you very much. looks great.

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 04:00, Greg Newby  wrote:

> Dear Tom,
>
> You might be interested to see that I recently merged the archives. (I am
> the current list operator.) You can find it browsable and a few other
> formats. This spans September 1992-July 2013 in the cypherpunks-legacy
> collection.
>
> The current (ongoing) list is in the main cypherpunks collection, from
> 2013-present. They are both here:
>
>   https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Announcement/description:
>   https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2019-December/078230.html
>
> Best,
>   Greg
>
> On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 09:41:57PM +0100, Tom Busby wrote:
> > I'm just a guy with a website. Believe me, it saddens me that so much is
> > lost, that's why I originally started trying to piece it all together,
> but
> > my leads ran cold, and if you go look at the commit logs for crypto
> > anarchy.wiki you'll see how little time I've had to work on it lately.
> >
> > In terms of whether this is deliberate forgery or just lost data, I have
> no
> > way of finding out because I don't have other copies of the archive to
> > compare with. That's the only way to do it. And even then I can only
> detect
> > tampering, not innocent loss of data. I was under ten years old during
> this
> > period so I'm flying blind in terms of what it should look like.
> >
> > I'm not a player in this drama, I'm just a guy who is mirroring what's
> > available so that isn't lost too.
> >
> > I simply don't have the time to help you at the moment. I have too many
> > other commitments. I haven't even found time to merge the 1999-onwards
> > archive.
> >
> > If you find a lead on any of it, let me know. As far as I can tell, Ryan
> > Lackey is the only one who can help you. This archive originates on
> Venona.
> > That I'm pretty sure about. If he won't respond to you, I don't know what
> > can be done. I really hope someone else finds an archive of this era,
> > because it's the most important era for sure.
> >
> > But other than that, please bear in mind that I'm on your side. We both
> > have the same goal: a complete, accurate archive. I've done what I can so
> > far. I won't have time to work on this actively in the near future.
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, 20:27 jim bell,  wrote:
> >
> > > On Friday, January 3, 2020, 02:16:28 AM PST, Tom Busby  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >>And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't
> > > seem to care
> > >
> > >
> > > >It's not that I don't care, I just don't know what I can do about it.
> > > This appears to be the only copy of the archive available.
> > >
> > > >If anyone else has a more complete archive, send it to me and I'll
> merge
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are thinking solely in terms of correcting the archive.   That's a
> > > limited view.  I'm thinking of finding out who is responsible for the
> > > well-planned omissions in the archive.  From where was the data
> obtained?
> > > When was the faking of the data done?   Who did it?  Why?
> > > Who had control of the Cypherpunks list during the 1995-2003 time
> frame?
> > > Was the data stored elsewhere, such as the Wayback Machine?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Jim Bell
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 08:25, jim bell  wrote:
> > >
> > > Jeffrey Epstein: Surveillance Video From First Suicide Attempt
> Missinghttps://
> www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jeffrey-epstein-surveillance-video-first-184510141.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Bell's comment:
> > >
> > > Missing, just like a few thousand postings to me, from me, about me,
> and
> > > any mentioning Assassination Politics in the 1995 Cypherpunks archive.
> > >
> > > And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't
> seem
> > > to care.  Neither does Brian Merchant nor Will Stephenson.
> > >
> > > Concealing the past by erasing the evidence is an old story.
> > >
> > >
>

Re: Missing video from Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide.

[Tom Busby]

I'm just a guy with a website. Believe me, it saddens me that so much is
lost, that's why I originally started trying to piece it all together, but
my leads ran cold, and if you go look at the commit logs for crypto
anarchy.wiki you'll see how little time I've had to work on it lately.

In terms of whether this is deliberate forgery or just lost data, I have no
way of finding out because I don't have other copies of the archive to
compare with. That's the only way to do it. And even then I can only detect
tampering, not innocent loss of data. I was under ten years old during this
period so I'm flying blind in terms of what it should look like.

I'm not a player in this drama, I'm just a guy who is mirroring what's
available so that isn't lost too.

I simply don't have the time to help you at the moment. I have too many
other commitments. I haven't even found time to merge the 1999-onwards
archive.

If you find a lead on any of it, let me know. As far as I can tell, Ryan
Lackey is the only one who can help you. This archive originates on Venona.
That I'm pretty sure about. If he won't respond to you, I don't know what
can be done. I really hope someone else finds an archive of this era,
because it's the most important era for sure.

But other than that, please bear in mind that I'm on your side. We both
have the same goal: a complete, accurate archive. I've done what I can so
far. I won't have time to work on this actively in the near future.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, 20:27 jim bell,  wrote:

> On Friday, January 3, 2020, 02:16:28 AM PST, Tom Busby 
> wrote:
>
>
> >>And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't
> seem to care
>
>
> >It's not that I don't care, I just don't know what I can do about it.
> This appears to be the only copy of the archive available.
>
> >If anyone else has a more complete archive, send it to me and I'll merge
> it.
>
>
> You are thinking solely in terms of correcting the archive.   That's a
> limited view.  I'm thinking of finding out who is responsible for the
> well-planned omissions in the archive.  From where was the data obtained?
> When was the faking of the data done?   Who did it?  Why?
> Who had control of the Cypherpunks list during the 1995-2003 time frame?
> Was the data stored elsewhere, such as the Wayback Machine?
>
>
>
>
>   Jim Bell
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 08:25, jim bell  wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Epstein: Surveillance Video From First Suicide Attempt 
> Missinghttps://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jeffrey-epstein-surveillance-video-first-184510141.html
>
>
> Jim Bell's comment:
>
> Missing, just like a few thousand postings to me, from me, about me, and
> any mentioning Assassination Politics in the 1995 Cypherpunks archive.
>
> And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't seem
> to care.  Neither does Brian Merchant nor Will Stephenson.
>
> Concealing the past by erasing the evidence is an old story.
>
>

Re: Missing video from Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide.

[Tom Busby]

>
> And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't seem
> to care
>

It's not that I don't care, I just don't know what I can do about it. This
appears to be the only copy of the archive available.

If anyone else has a more complete archive, send it to me and I'll merge
it.

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 08:25, jim bell  wrote:

> Jeffrey Epstein: Surveillance Video From First Suicide Attempt 
> Missinghttps://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jeffrey-epstein-surveillance-video-first-184510141.html
>
>
> Jim Bell's comment:
>
> Missing, just like a few thousand postings to me, from me, about me, and
> any mentioning Assassination Politics in the 1995 Cypherpunks archive.
>
> And John Gilmore, Ryan Lackey, Tom Busby, and Declan McCullagh don't seem
> to care.  Neither does Brian Merchant nor Will Stephenson.
>
> Concealing the past by erasing the evidence is an old story.
>

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

[Tom Busby]

The count was performed by me programmatically. That count represents all
the emails associated with that email address that are present in the
venona raw archives.

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 21:39, jim bell  wrote:

>
> I have another question:  on the CP archive page
> https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/authors/notable/
>
>  , it has an option to show "Notable Authors".  Finding my own listing, it
> states:
>
> Jim Bell
>
>- jim bell 
>
> 
> - *1118 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)
>
> 
> - *57 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com
>
> 
> - *1 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com (jimbell)
>
> 
> - *1 posts*
>
>
> My posting count above, 1118, seems to be larger than anybody's, except
> for Tim May. I wonder over what time frame this posting-count is derived.   At
> least based on the 1995 forged archive, almost none of my messages that
> would have posted 1995 are there!  I would imagine that the largest
> proportion of my total sent messages, at least during 1995-1997, come from
> 1995. So, where did that count, "1118" come from??   And WHICH count does
> it appear to reflect:   The genuine count, or the forged count? And
> there's another question:  The vast majority of the messages which should
> have been directed "to" me in 1995 to not appear.   Do the people's
> message-counts who sent emails to me include those now-phantom emails, or
> omit them?
>Jim Bell
> ?
>
>

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

[Tom Busby]

I hear you.

We just need more people to come forward with their own archives of the 90s
so we can merge them. That's the most sensible solution (and the only one I
can think of).

Currently, the only game in town seems to be Ryan Lackey's archive. I'm
very keen to get hold of other archives of the period that other people may
have (and would be even in the absence of anything that suggests foul
play), so our goals are aligned here.



On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 23:16, jim bell  wrote:

> Thank you for your reply, I will answer inline:  Jim Bell
>
> On Monday, November 4, 2019, 01:17:58 PM PST, Tom Busby 
> wrote:
>
>
> >Hi to all in general and Jim in particular,
>
> >I don't check the list all that often at the moment, I decided to do a
> keyword search after I saw your disqus comment. It's good to hear from you,
> I'm a fan of Assassination Politics. It's a thought provoking work
> describing a dangerous idea of the kind that has always fascinated me :)
>
> >I'll repeat what I said in my reply on the page:
>
> >
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
> <https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html#comment-4676616536>
>
> >Currently. Yes, the archive is basically just a clone of what's in the
> raw files hosted on Ryan Lackey's venona site. I strongly, strongly suspect
> that this has large amounts of missing data due to how quiet some periods
> are, and also it ends in early 1999 anyway (with those emails tacked on to
> the end of the 1998 archive).
>
>
> While that would be an entirely plausible possibility in the general case,
> and over many years, I can assure you that the then-current almost-total
> data void from February 14 1995 through about mid-July 1995 have nothing at
> all to do with that idea.   I was there at least during March 1995 through
> nearly half of 1997. My very existence, and that of references to "AP"
> and "Assassination Politics", was almost perfectly erased...except that it
> wasnt, in the 1996 archive.   Even when emails were listed July
> 1995-December 1995, I was seemingly almost entirely 'erased',  Even people
> today on CP see that the list must have been "sanitized" to within an inch
> of its life.
>
>
> >I was provided with a (apparently) roughly complete archive for 2000 to
> 2016. This is hosted here currently:
>
> cryptoanarchywiki/2000-to-2016-raw-cypherpunks-archive
> <https://github.com/cryptoanarchywiki/2000-to-2016-raw-cypherpunks-archive>
>
>
>
> >I had strong ambitions of trying to index and merge all of the archives I
> could get my hands on, but this is more challenging than you might think.
> Determining which two emails are the same is very difficult when they
> sometimes contain encoding errors, extra whitespace, differing text for
> expressing the time of emails, etc (making hashing an infeasible way of
> comparing them). I've also had an enormous amount of other commitments that
> have preventing me working on this archive as much as I'd like (or at all
> really, if I'm honest) over the past year.
>
>
> Well, I think finding out what happened to the data archived into the 1995
> will be much simpler than re-generating the full, correct archive. And no
> doubt this recently-discovered fraud will induce many more people to be
> interested in fixing the archive.  So, you shouldn't worry that you will be
> faced with an ocean of work.
>
>
>
> >The site is also a Jekyll-generated static site hosted on github. The
> sheer number of pages is really approaching the limit of what's possible
> with this approach. It takes over an hour to build the site currently.
> Adding the 2000-2016 archive would be totally unworkable in this way. I
> also want to index the messages in ElasticSearch or similar. The lack of a
> search function is something that I feel is sorely lacking.
>
> >Sadly, for this reason, my attempts to synthesise all the available
> incomplete archives of messages from this era have stalled :( it's there at
> the back of my mind though, so I haven't lost the will to work on it, just
> the time.
>
>
> Okay, I think things will change dramatically, and you will get help on
> this project, I am sure,
>
>
> >I hear your concerns about large numbers of missing emails, and if anyone
> reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to have
> them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
> processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those archive
> files so that, should I fail to complete this task myself, those archives
> will be collected toge

Re: Your Cypherpunks archive

[Tom Busby]

Sorry, I only just saw this, messages addressed to me get filtered to a
label if they're also addressed to the mailing list. I should see if I can
change my filter to make an exception for this in my filter rule.

I've replied properly in another thread.

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 06:13, jim bell  wrote:

> I have just discovered a startling omission in your Cypherpunks archive.
> A HUGE number of postings on the subject of AP, my assassination politics
> essay, which I began posting maybe about April/May 1995 are simply not
> there.  And, in fact, postings on the subject of AP at least until early
> November 1995 seem to be missing.  And perhaps after November 1995.
>
> I don't know what other classes of emails may also be missing, but I think
> it will be very important to find out this information.
>
> I looked at the archive because I wanted to determine the earliest that
> the subject of "Assassination Politics" appeared on the Cypherpunks list.
> It might have been April 1995.
> Note: as weird as it may sound, there are reasons that this material might
> have been tampered with, but I don't know what time the tampering
> occurred.
>
> We are discussing this on the Cypherpunks list.  I assume you will want to
> participate.
>
>   Jim Bell
>

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

[Tom Busby]

Hi to all in general and Jim in particular,

I don't check the list all that often at the moment, I decided to do a
keyword search after I saw your disqus comment. It's good to hear from you,
I'm a fan of Assassination Politics. It's a thought provoking work
describing a dangerous idea of the kind that has always fascinated me :)

I'll repeat what I said in my reply on the page:

https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html


Currently. Yes, the archive is basically just a clone of what's in the raw
files hosted on Ryan Lackey's venona site. I strongly, strongly suspect
that this has large amounts of missing data due to how quiet some periods
are, and also it ends in early 1999 anyway (with those emails tacked on to
the end of the 1998 archive).

I was provided with a (apparently) roughly complete archive for 2000 to
2016. This is hosted here currently:

https://github.com/cryptoanarchywiki/2000-to-2016-raw-cypherpunks-archive

I had strong ambitions of trying to index and merge all of the archives I
could get my hands on, but this is more challenging than you might think.
Determining which two emails are the same is very difficult when they
sometimes contain encoding errors, extra whitespace, differing text for
expressing the time of emails, etc (making hashing an infeasible way of
comparing them). I've also had an enormous amount of other commitments that
have preventing me working on this archive as much as I'd like (or at all
really, if I'm honest) over the past year.

The site is also a Jekyll-generated static site hosted on github. The sheer
number of pages is really approaching the limit of what's possible with
this approach. It takes over an hour to build the site currently. Adding
the 2000-2016 archive would be totally unworkable in this way. I also want
to index the messages in ElasticSearch or similar. The lack of a search
function is something that I feel is sorely lacking.

Sadly, for this reason, my attempts to synthesise all the available
incomplete archives of messages from this era have stalled :( it's there at
the back of my mind though, so I haven't lost the will to work on it, just
the time.

I hear your concerns about large numbers of missing emails, and if anyone
reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to have
them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those archive
files so that, should I fail to complete this task myself, those archives
will be collected together for someone else to attempt to finish the task.]

Whether or not those archives have willful deletions or modifications to
the data, I've no idea, to be honest. I would rely on others to notice and
report things that seem strange. Even then I'm not sure what to do about
it. When coming across two distinct versions of what appear to be the same
message, I'd probably just list both. That's all I can do really. This
project appears to be complex in a lot of ways that weren't obvious at the
start... which is a familiar story to anyone who sets out to solve a
problem I guess :)

Tom

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 23:31, jim bell  wrote:

> No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
>
> Dear Mr. Busby,
>
> On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
>  , you said:
>
> "I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may
> already be irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame
> for future generations who want to learn about this vital period of
> internet history and development. There is an argument that perhaps the
> list participants would like their privacy preserved, however I don’t think
> it is a strong one. An open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a
> public forum. Posting to it is an act of placing information into the
> public domain."
>
> No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There
> were clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even
> as early as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP
> emails, which were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard
> drives, possibly floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those
> hard drives were occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them
> were probably put on shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they
> were retired, they were not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are
> remarkable things:  If you put something on them, perhaps in a box, that
> object generally does not simply disappear after years or even decades.
> So there was no immediate reason to throw those hard drives away, even if
> the potential value of that hardware gradually 

Re: We must preserve the Cypherpunks Mailing List archives! IMPORTANT!

[Tom Busby]

I managed the extract that file successfully.

I uploaded the extract to GitHub if you wanna just git clone it instead:

https://github.com/cryptoanarchywiki/2000-to-2016-raw-cypherpunks-archive

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, 5:40 am Steve Kinney,  wrote:

>
>
> On 07/05/2018 07:20 PM, juan wrote:
> >
> >
> > quote:
> > From: "Riad S. Wahby" 
> > Subject: Re: moving on
> > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:44:31 -0700
> >
> > Done! This tarball goes back as far as 1999, though I'm not certain
> > it's a complete archive. Note that prior to the LNE node, the list
> > was 100% unfiltered, so what's below includes a decent amount of spam.
> > All told, it's about 95k messages in Maildir format.
> >
> > https://cpunks.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2
>
> wget sez:  HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
>
> > https://cpunks.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2.asc
>
> wget sez:  HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
>
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> >   I uploaded a copy of those archives here
> >
> >   https://www6.zippyshare.com/v/H0msMEKw/file.html
>
> Seems legit except 'extract' has been chewing on the file for 45 minutes
> now without spitting out any useful bits that I can see, while 'top'
> indicates 99% of CPU cycles dedicated to the task.  It's kind of
> reassuring that 'extract' reports files in "GNU tar format" were found.
> But @126 MB I would expect /most/ archive files of this size to unpack
> in way less than a minute here.
>
> amidoinitrite?
>
> Has anybody got a verifiably useful copy?
>
> :o)
>
>
>

Re: We must preserve the Cypherpunks Mailing List archives! IMPORTANT!

[Tom Busby]

On 6 July 2018 at 02:07,  wrote:

> I have a solid archive 2002-present. Set up an FTP site and post the
> details to the list
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Sent using Guerrillamail.com
> Block or report abuse: https://www.guerrillamail.com/
> /abuse/?a=VU55JQ8VULYMxgC9%2FnQe
>
>
>
Hi, send me a password in the same way. I'll get the FTP set up (though it
will likely be monday before I can).

Once I've done that, I'll post the details to the list, absent the password
you chose.

On 5 July 2018 at 21:46, Tom Busby  wrote:

> I've written a blog post about this with further details if anyone is
> interested:
>
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-
> archives-must-be-preserved.html
>
> The primary reason I'm sending this email is to appeal to those of you who
> have been active on the list since before July 2013 (when the switch to GNU
> Mailman occurred) and to those of you who know now-inactive subscribers who
> may also have this information.
>
> There is a total black hole in terms of available archived threads from
> early 1999 to mid 2013. I've contacted the guy who ran the al-qaeda.net
> node and dug around in the way back machine trying to locate these
> archives. No luck so far.
>
> I'm worried this information will be lost permanently if a concerted
> effort isn't made to preserve it now, while *some* of it is perhaps still
> preserved on people's hard drives. I have no doubt that some (maybe most)
> of the threads from the early 2000s may already be lost permanently.
>
> Please get in touch if you think you can help out at all.
>
> Tom Busby
>

Re: We must preserve the Cypherpunks Mailing List archives! IMPORTANT!

[Tom Busby]

Thanks for the peace of mind there. Very much appreciated.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, 1:46 am Zenaan Harkness,  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 05, 2018 at 08:24:04PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > for what it's worth
> >
> > https://www6.zippyshare.com/v/H0msMEKw/file.html
> >
> > sha256sum
> >
> > 2d2c8fb79ae60f9a33ba2f78efad7a6106b931c59345a1e03b2c8eca0c87645c
> cypherpunks.tar.bz2_
>
> I confirm this SHA256 value against my copy of the named file.
>

Re: We must preserve the Cypherpunks Mailing List archives! IMPORTANT!

[Tom Busby]

This is fantastic. Thank you very much. I was expecting to have to gather
this stuff piecemeal.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, 1:21 am juan,  wrote:

>
>
>
> for what it's worth
>
> https://www6.zippyshare.com/v/H0msMEKw/file.html
>
> sha256sum
>
> 2d2c8fb79ae60f9a33ba2f78efad7a6106b931c59345a1e03b2c8eca0c87645c
> cypherpunks.tar.bz2_
>

We must preserve the Cypherpunks Mailing List archives! IMPORTANT!

[Tom Busby]

I've written a blog post about this with further details if anyone is
interested:

https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html

The primary reason I'm sending this email is to appeal to those of you who
have been active on the list since before July 2013 (when the switch to GNU
Mailman occurred) and to those of you who know now-inactive subscribers who
may also have this information.

There is a total black hole in terms of available archived threads from
early 1999 to mid 2013. I've contacted the guy who ran the al-qaeda.net
node and dug around in the way back machine trying to locate these
archives. No luck so far.

I'm worried this information will be lost permanently if a concerted effort
isn't made to preserve it now, while *some* of it is perhaps still
preserved on people's hard drives. I have no doubt that some (maybe most)
of the threads from the early 2000s may already be lost permanently.

Please get in touch if you think you can help out at all.

Tom Busby

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: Thoughts on excerpt from Duality?

[Tom Busby]

Might be of interest to you.

https://keepingstock.net/not-all-post-2011-satoshi-appearance-has-been-debunked-fab9a5c23812

This latest "Satoshi" is a hoax though, not very credible at all.

On 3 July 2018 at 17:15, mark M  wrote:

> Georgi
> There’s no crypto key or proof of ownership of the genesis blocks  in
> this site or excerpt
> But the excerpt does read very well a Little too wordy for Satoshi who I
> remember as terse and matter of fact
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2018 at 6:37 PM, >
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 07:03:24AM -0700, mark M wrote:
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/
> >
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/duality.pdf
> >
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/cryptogram.html
>
> Is this the real Nakamoto, speculations?
>
> Didn't see crypto key to prevent potential future impostors of this
> "identity".
>
>

Re: [ANARCHY] Town posts armed guards to stop contraband entry

[Tom Busby]

I read about this too, it's not really a voluntary society in a libertarian
sense.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/mexican-town-overthrew-their-local-government-and-things-are-going-great

>From here is linked to a Vice article (and video) about this place:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gykaq9/a-town-in-mexico-overthrew-their-local-government-things-couldnt-be-going-better

If you watch the vid, one guy works as a professor at a technical
university, and he gets nominated by his peers and elected to be one of the
12 "councilmen" or whatever they call it. It's notable that he doesn't have
a choice in the matter and has to quit his university job for 25% salary as
one of the councilmen.

If your neighbours decide you're standing for election, it doesn't seem you
have a choice. If they then elect you, you don't have a choice either.

On 3 July 2018 at 18:44, Steven Schear  wrote:

> Though some residents complain they are almost required to pay for this
> protection.
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 9:42 AM Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>
>> A Mexican Town Overthrew Their Local Government And Things Are Going
>> Great
>> https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/mexican-town-
>> overthrew-their-local-government-and-things-are-going-great
>>
>>  The town of Cherán, Mexico was once plagued…
>>  Cherán is now run by autonomous groups of armed individuals…
>>  members of an autonomous militia — guard every entrance to the town,
>>  looking for strangers with contraband…
>>
>>  “Contraband” would be considered political propaganda posters of
>>  those who claim the right to rule other human beings.
>>
>>  …Cherán has achieved something unthinkable in Michoacán: a dramatic
>>  drop in murder rates, with rates for other serious crimes hovering
>>  at nearly zero. For those in Mexico, especially in an election year
>>  marred by wanton political murders, Cherán stands as proof that, in
>>  the country’s entrenched cycle of violence, the key ingredient to
>>  that violence is the state.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In other news:
>> Nevada Traffic Deaths Plunge 10% Following Marijuana Legalization
>> https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/nevada-
>> traffic-deaths-plunge-10-following-marijuana-legalization
>>
>>

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: Thoughts on excerpt from Duality?

[Tom Busby]

I'll be honest, I suspect that Satoshi was either Nick Szabo, Hal Finney,
or both working together. We'll never know for sure though.

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018, 5:31 pm mark M,  wrote:

> Georgi
> That’s a great test 
>
> Tom
> The personal identity of Satoshi over time as you say is very nuanced much
> like dpr of Silk road as multiple characters over time took the mantle of
> dpr
>
> But even with all of the dprs Ross Ulbricht was definitely doxed by the
> feds
> Just worried there’s the very first og Satoshi who might still be around
>
> On Jul 3, 2018 at 8:49 PM, > wrote:
>
> Tbf there are no (spendable) accounts which are known to be Satoshi for
> sure.
>
> There's the genesis block reward (not spendable due to a quirk in the
> protocol), the address Satoshi used to send the first transaction to Hal
> Finney (was this really Satoshi? We don't know for sure) and there are a
> bunch of blocks that we strongly suspect were mined by Satoshi due to their
> characteristics (mainly the incrementing nonce value).
>
> Something signed with the genesis block reward address's private key would
> be best proof... But still not perfect, since we don't really even know if
> Satoshi was the same person over time, or if the same person operated all
> the Satoshi email/forum accounts.
>
> I don't believe this new pretender really is Satoshi  though (or,
> hypothetically, any of the people who spoke as "Satoshi") because the
> writing style is way off. Satoshi was never a mystic. Satoshi never spoke
> in grand narratives either, just engineering pragmatism.
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2018, 4:42 pm Georgi Guninski, 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 03, 2018 at 03:56:19PM +0200, Tom Busby wrote:
>> > Satoshi actually never, ever signed anything cryptographically.
>> >
>> No problem. As a proof of identity I request 1337.7331 bitcoins from one
>> of their accounts ;)
>>
>>

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: Thoughts on excerpt from Duality?

[Tom Busby]

Are you talking about Craig Wright's "private demonstrations" to Gavin
Andresen etc?

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018, 5:16 pm mark M,  wrote:

> Yes, he did sign the genesis blocks as they ran on his laptop ?
>
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2018 at 7:26 PM, > wrote:
>
> Satoshi actually never, ever signed anything cryptographically.
>
> We don't even know for sure if whitepaper Satoshi, genesis block Satoshi,
> email address(es, there were two) Satoshi, and BitcoinTalk Satoshi were the
> same person.
>
> On 3 July 2018 at 15:07, Georgi Guninski  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 07:03:24AM -0700, mark M wrote:
>> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/
>> >
>> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/duality.pdf
>> >
>> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/cryptogram.html
>>
>> Is this the real Nakamoto, speculations?
>>
>> Didn't see crypto key to prevent potential future impostors of this
>> "identity".
>>
>>
>

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: Thoughts on excerpt from Duality?

[Tom Busby]

Tbf there are no (spendable) accounts which are known to be Satoshi for
sure.

There's the genesis block reward (not spendable due to a quirk in the
protocol), the address Satoshi used to send the first transaction to Hal
Finney (was this really Satoshi? We don't know for sure) and there are a
bunch of blocks that we strongly suspect were mined by Satoshi due to their
characteristics (mainly the incrementing nonce value).

Something signed with the genesis block reward address's private key would
be best proof... But still not perfect, since we don't really even know if
Satoshi was the same person over time, or if the same person operated all
the Satoshi email/forum accounts.

I don't believe this new pretender really is Satoshi  though (or,
hypothetically, any of the people who spoke as "Satoshi") because the
writing style is way off. Satoshi was never a mystic. Satoshi never spoke
in grand narratives either, just engineering pragmatism.

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018, 4:42 pm Georgi Guninski,  wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 03, 2018 at 03:56:19PM +0200, Tom Busby wrote:
> > Satoshi actually never, ever signed anything cryptographically.
> >
> No problem. As a proof of identity I request 1337.7331 bitcoins from one
> of their accounts ;)
>
>

Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: Thoughts on excerpt from Duality?

[Tom Busby]

Satoshi actually never, ever signed anything cryptographically.

We don't even know for sure if whitepaper Satoshi, genesis block Satoshi,
email address(es, there were two) Satoshi, and BitcoinTalk Satoshi were the
same person.

On 3 July 2018 at 15:07, Georgi Guninski  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 07:03:24AM -0700, mark M wrote:
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/
> >
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/duality.pdf
> >
> > http://nakamotofamilyfoundation.org/cryptogram.html
>
> Is this the real Nakamoto, speculations?
>
> Didn't see crypto key to prevent potential future impostors of this
> "identity".
>
>