Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-25 Thread jim bell 
l me what library you believe I visited, There's at least one 
library in Vancouver Washington.  (actually, an old, decommissioned one and a  
new replacement one.)  There may be others as well.  
I know there's a library in westside Portland, Oregon, but I don't think I 
visited it since about 1992, or even earlier.   I visited a library in Eastside 
Portland, but never before 2013.    No doubt there's a library in Beaverton, 
Oregon, but I don't recall where it is, and cannot recall ever visiting it.  
See the problem?   You've related an EXTREMELY vague, undated recollection that 
simply doesn't make sense.  I am more than willing to answer and help you out, 
but more information is necessary.  
And, I think you need to be willing to demand further information from whatever 
sources you have been talking and writing to,  Remember, I am alleging that 
they (or at least their colleagues) were busily committing crimes.  
           Jim Bell


On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 04:26:34 PM PDT, Brian Merchant 
 wrote:  
 
 I'd prefer it if you didn't CC me or the fact checker on your correspondence 
with other individuals. 
To answer your query, yes, I would like very much to expand on this piece or do 
another dedicated to your history, but I would not like to be involved in 
real-time correspondences or disputes with other persons. We can discuss the 
contents of your findings later on. Please remove me and Will from these 
emails. 
Thanks for your understanding. 
bcm
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:31 PM jim bell  wrote:

No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
Dear Mr. Busby,
On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
   , you said:
"I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may already be 
irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame for future 
generations who want to learn about this vital period of internet history and 
development. There is an argument that perhaps the list participants would like 
their privacy preserved, however I don’t think it is a strong one. An 
open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a public forum. Posting to it is 
an act of placing information into the public domain."

No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There were 
clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even as early 
as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP emails, which 
were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard drives, possibly 
floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those hard drives were 
occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them were probably put on 
shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they were retired, they were 
not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are remarkable things:  If you 
put something on them, perhaps in a box, that object generally does not simply 
disappear after years or even decades.    So there was no immediate reason to 
throw those hard drives away, even if the potential value of that hardware 
gradually dropped.  So, in many cases, it can be expected that such hardware 
remains and is ultimately retrievable, 
(Only idiots like Razer think otherwise, apparently.)
Does anybody believe that EACH AND EVERY copy of ANY specific CP email was 
totally erased, everywhere around the world it happened to be.  Including, for 
instance, the NSA and other government TLA's?    How foolish!  
  But what you need to do, immediately, is to worry about a far more omnous 
reality, one that I have discovered within the last 3+ days.   I was a heavy 
participant in the Cypherpunks list from perhaps March 1995 onwards, and for a 
couple of years.  And, quite unlike most of the now-current subscribers, the 
large majority of whom were not on the CP list in 1995, I can actually REMEMBER 
the general events of that time frame.   Which is one of the main reasons I 
have a powerful advantage as I studied a specific kind of message and text that 
is, or at least SHOULD BE, in the Cypherpunks archive for 1995.
You, sorting through a veritable ocean of look-sorta-alike data, are very 
unlikely to spontaneously notice what data happens to be "missing".  If you go 
into a forest, how can you notice one missing tree, or a dozen?  (Yes, a 
sawed-off stump remains an excellent clue.)  I, however, knowing that my name  
(jim bell) and my old email adddress (jimb...@pacifier.com), and references to 
'assassination politics' and 'AP' should be heavily present, have a huge 
advantage.  If they aren't (still) there, I will notice it.  And they aren't. 
And I did.  You presumably don't notice it, at least not until I explain what 
should be present, yet isn't present.  Quite understandable.  But now you know.
I suggest that you read my comments for the last 3 or so days on CP.   In some 
of them, I point out that the text string 'jim

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-13 Thread jim bell 
 On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 11:43:59 PM PST, grarpamp  
wrote:
 
 
 On 11/13/19, jim bell  wrote:
>>  What months  of emails are missing?  By my recollection, nearly all
>> postings in the 1995 archive file end February 14, 1995, and resume about
> >July 11, 1995.  (there are a very few during this period, though.)  I think
> t>his simulates a 'data loss'.

>Not regarding this Toad source...

>1590 Jan 1995
1686 Feb 1995
1610 Mar 1995
1924 Apr 1995
1657 May 1995
1622 Jun 1995
1847 Jul 1995
1583 Aug 1995
2315 Sep 1995
2147 Oct 1995
1685 Nov 1995
1878 Dec 1995


If that source  includes the actual emails, as well as the count of emails, we 
are in luck!

>> But, very few postings mentioning "Jim Bell",
>> "jimb...@pacifier.com", " ap ", "assassination politics"  occur even after
>> July 11, 1995:  Just a handful in November and December 1995.

>I forget if someone found and posted such a July match.


THey may have made a small error...

>> Those who faked the archive may also have deleted other emails, figuring
>> that if they had only deleted a few, we would eventually learn what those
>> few emails were.

>The three from the Yahoo set I posted should be easy for
someone to find in another set.
Excellent.


>  By deleting perhaps thousands, they concealed what was
> done.

>That's possible, except that afaik no one has publicly
mentioned finding any of your presumed missing
early AP posts in any public or private archive prior
to the first known dates posted in these threads.

>That's what people should look for among their
disks and peers.
Yes...
And that's one big reason I want some people who were on CP during that period 
to show up and agree that "Some things are missing!!!"


>> the public had no
> mechanism to force that punishment, which was very much needed.

>Punishment implies perhaps some physical force
as mandatory default course of action.
Whereas with a real AP system... meaning one that is
accessible to the public masses, and thus obviously
reported on in the media... any mark for reeducation
that starts accumulating satoshis will be quickly aware
of their position on the list... no sane person would
at that point refuse to alter their ways or stand down.
Thus chance of any such force ever being actually
applied is very small, and even if so, in a ratio
lower than any statistically relavant property theft,
damage, abuse, injury, and or death.
Which is why I always believed that with a well-functioning AP system, there 
will actually be few deaths needed.


>> the OKCB
>> instead I wanted to make such incidents totally unnecessary.

>Those sort of people probably did not hear about AP yet,
else maybe they would have elected somehow
participating in AP's more peaceful approach...
gone on some speaking tours about AP to change politik
started some form of convincing educational system,
perhaps book making or confirming news, etc.
Yes, they simply didn't go through the thought necessary to understand how AP 
would actually operate.  

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-12 Thread grarpamp 
On 11/13/19, jim bell  wrote:
>  What months  of emails are missing?  By my recollection, nearly all
> postings in the 1995 archive file end February 14, 1995, and resume about
> July 11, 1995.  (there are a very few during this period, though.)   I think
> this simulates a 'data loss'.

Not regarding this Toad source...

1590 Jan 1995
1686 Feb 1995
1610 Mar 1995
1924 Apr 1995
1657 May 1995
1622 Jun 1995
1847 Jul 1995
1583 Aug 1995
2315 Sep 1995
2147 Oct 1995
1685 Nov 1995
1878 Dec 1995


> But, very few postings mentioning "Jim Bell",
> "jimb...@pacifier.com", " ap ", "assassination politics"  occur even after
> July 11, 1995:  Just a handful in November and December 1995.

I forget if someone found and posted such a July match.

> Those who faked the archive may also have deleted other emails, figuring
> that if they had only deleted a few, we would eventually learn what those
> few emails were.

The three from the Yahoo set I posted should be easy for
someone to find in another set.

>  By deleting perhaps thousands, they concealed what was
> done.

That's possible, except that afaik no one has publicly
mentioned finding any of your presumed missing
early AP posts in any public or private archive prior
to the first known dates posted in these threads.

That's what people should look for among their
disks and peers.



> the public had no
> mechanism to force that punishment, which was very much needed.

Punishment implies perhaps some physical force
as mandatory default course of action.
Whereas with a real AP system... meaning one that is
accessible to the public masses, and thus obviously
reported on in the media... any mark for reeducation
that starts accumulating satoshis will be quickly aware
of their position on the list... no sane person would
at that point refuse to alter their ways or stand down.
Thus chance of any such force ever being actually
applied is very small, and even if so, in a ratio
lower than any statistically relavant property theft,
damage, abuse, injury, and or death.

> the OKCB
> instead I wanted to make such incidents totally unnecessary.

Those sort of people probably did not hear about AP yet,
else maybe they would have elected somehow
participating in AP's more peaceful approach...
gone on some speaking tours about AP to change politik
started some form of convincing educational system,
perhaps book making or confirming news, etc.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-12 Thread jim bell 
 What months  of emails are missing?  By my recollection, nearly all postings 
in the 1995 archive file end February 14, 1995, and resume about July 11, 1995. 
 (there are a very few during this period, though.)   I think this simulates a 
'data loss'.But, very few postings mentioning "Jim Bell", 
"jimb...@pacifier.com", " ap ", "assassination politics"  occur even after July 
11, 1995:  Just a handful in November and December 1995.
One possibility is that 'they' were trying to make my AP look like it appeared 
8 months after it actually did.  What happened on April 19, 1995?  The Oklahoma 
City Bombing.  (OKCB).  It is an expected fact that populations are likely to 
be more sympathetic to extreme government reactions if they seem to be 'under 
attack'.  A historian studying the (faked) archive would conclude that AP must 
have been first publicized November 1995, well after the truth:  February 1995. 
 
I wrote AP in the shadow of the Ruby Ridge incident in August 1992, and the 
Waco Texas incident which occurred April 1993.  By January 1995, it was obvious 
that no Federal employee was going to be punished for those matters, and 
certainly not adequately.  But I also knew that the public had no mechanism to 
force that punishment, which was very much needed.   I invented what I soon 
labelled "Assassination Politics", realized that it was the tool the public 
needed, and wrote the essay and publicized it.  
The Federal Government began spying on me almost immediately, and in fact about 
2 months prior to the OKCB.  By making it appear that AP was written and 
published in November 1995, they invert this relationship and perhaps make it 
appear that I sympathized with the OKCB, where instead I wanted to make such 
incidents totally unnecessary.
Those who faked the archive may also have deleted other emails, figuring that 
if they had only deleted a few, we would eventually learn what those few emails 
were.  By deleting perhaps thousands, they concealed what was done.
               Jim Bell


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:39:07 PM PST, grarpamp 
 wrote:  
 
 A fuller copy that subscribed to Toad floated here,
it's in a shit format. So people should always feel
free to post / send / link whatever they have.

Anyway, in it, Jim's '/(jim|james).*bell/i' first...

- msg is
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 16:10:53 -0800

- mention of /ass?ass?inn?ation/i is
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 11:25:42 -0800

which reads...

If you've been following my idea, "assassination politics," you know that
there is an excellent use for payee-anonymous digital cash.


First mention of '/ass?ass?inn?ation pol/i'
in the entire copy is Jim's above...
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 11:25:42 -0800



This may mean...

- Posts implied by the "following" context above
occurred earlier elsewhere that was not being fed to Toad
(elsewhere could include some non-cpunks channel[s]),
and Jim switched to Toad later by first date above.

- Some other cpunks remailer variation on that.

- Censorship of two independant archive sources.
Perhaps a bit unlikely since the serialization format
of the Toad source seems intact (Yahoo failed its
own serialization, and Venona/Cryptome has none).


Exactly what months, and or other specific elements
and or posts, are people saying are missing again?


Then there was...

nntp:talk.politics.assassination
Scientific American Oct 77
The Economist March 2 96

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-12 Thread grarpamp 
A fuller copy that subscribed to Toad floated here,
it's in a shit format. So people should always feel
free to post / send / link whatever they have.

Anyway, in it, Jim's '/(jim|james).*bell/i' first...

- msg is
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 16:10:53 -0800

- mention of /ass?ass?inn?ation/i is
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 11:25:42 -0800

which reads...

If you've been following my idea, "assassination politics," you know that
there is an excellent use for payee-anonymous digital cash.


First mention of '/ass?ass?inn?ation pol/i'
in the entire copy is Jim's above...
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 11:25:42 -0800



This may mean...

- Posts implied by the "following" context above
occurred earlier elsewhere that was not being fed to Toad
(elsewhere could include some non-cpunks channel[s]),
and Jim switched to Toad later by first date above.

- Some other cpunks remailer variation on that.

- Censorship of two independant archive sources.
Perhaps a bit unlikely since the serialization format
of the Toad source seems intact (Yahoo failed its
own serialization, and Venona/Cryptome has none).


Exactly what months, and or other specific elements
and or posts, are people saying are missing again?


Then there was...

nntp:talk.politics.assassination
Scientific American Oct 77
The Economist March 2 96

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-10 Thread jim bell 
 Ah, okay.
              Jim Bell
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:10:32 AM PST, grarpamp 
 wrote:  
 
 On 11/9/19, jim bell  wrote:
>  I'm trying to understand what you are saying, here...

Yahoogroups cpunks copy is missing messages.
To find what's missing from yahoo, and possibly why,
someone has to look at other archives between the
indicated msg-id's to see if they show up.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-10 Thread grarpamp 
On 11/9/19, jim bell  wrote:
>  I'm trying to understand what you are saying, here...

Yahoogroups cpunks copy is missing messages.
To find what's missing from yahoo, and possibly why,
someone has to look at other archives between the
indicated msg-id's to see if they show up.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-09 Thread jim bell 
o be willing to demand further information from whatever 
sources you have been talking and writing to,  Remember, I am alleging that 
they (or at least their colleagues) were busily committing crimes.  
           Jim Bell


On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 04:26:34 PM PDT, Brian Merchant 
 wrote:  
 
 I'd prefer it if you didn't CC me or the fact checker on your correspondence 
with other individuals. 
To answer your query, yes, I would like very much to expand on this piece or do 
another dedicated to your history, but I would not like to be involved in 
real-time correspondences or disputes with other persons. We can discuss the 
contents of your findings later on. Please remove me and Will from these 
emails. 
Thanks for your understanding. 
bcm
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:31 PM jim bell  wrote:

No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
Dear Mr. Busby,
On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
   , you said:
"I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may already be 
irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame for future 
generations who want to learn about this vital period of internet history and 
development. There is an argument that perhaps the list participants would like 
their privacy preserved, however I don’t think it is a strong one. An 
open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a public forum. Posting to it is 
an act of placing information into the public domain."

No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There were 
clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even as early 
as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP emails, which 
were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard drives, possibly 
floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those hard drives were 
occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them were probably put on 
shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they were retired, they were 
not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are remarkable things:  If you 
put something on them, perhaps in a box, that object generally does not simply 
disappear after years or even decades.    So there was no immediate reason to 
throw those hard drives away, even if the potential value of that hardware 
gradually dropped.  So, in many cases, it can be expected that such hardware 
remains and is ultimately retrievable, 
(Only idiots like Razer think otherwise, apparently.)
Does anybody believe that EACH AND EVERY copy of ANY specific CP email was 
totally erased, everywhere around the world it happened to be.  Including, for 
instance, the NSA and other government TLA's?    How foolish!  
  But what you need to do, immediately, is to worry about a far more omnous 
reality, one that I have discovered within the last 3+ days.   I was a heavy 
participant in the Cypherpunks list from perhaps March 1995 onwards, and for a 
couple of years.  And, quite unlike most of the now-current subscribers, the 
large majority of whom were not on the CP list in 1995, I can actually REMEMBER 
the general events of that time frame.   Which is one of the main reasons I 
have a powerful advantage as I studied a specific kind of message and text that 
is, or at least SHOULD BE, in the Cypherpunks archive for 1995.
You, sorting through a veritable ocean of look-sorta-alike data, are very 
unlikely to spontaneously notice what data happens to be "missing".  If you go 
into a forest, how can you notice one missing tree, or a dozen?  (Yes, a 
sawed-off stump remains an excellent clue.)  I, however, knowing that my name  
(jim bell) and my old email adddress (jimb...@pacifier.com), and references to 
'assassination politics' and 'AP' should be heavily present, have a huge 
advantage.  If they aren't (still) there, I will notice it.  And they aren't. 
And I did.  You presumably don't notice it, at least not until I explain what 
should be present, yet isn't present.  Quite understandable.  But now you know.
I suggest that you read my comments for the last 3 or so days on CP.   In some 
of them, I point out that the text string 'jim bell' does not seem to be 
present in the 1995 archive you are maintaining, nor in the Venona file for 
that year.  And the text string 'AP', in the limited meaning of the name of my 
1995 essay, "Assassination Politics", which soon enough the vast majority of 
the time was shortened to merely 'AP'.  Yet, I first entered the CP list about 
March 1995, and was solidly responding to dozens, of messages, per day.  And 
other people, many dozens of them, were posting similar, and responding, 
messages back to me, and to others on the list.  None of that seems to be 
present, at least not before November 2005, and yet it is solidly present in 
2006.
 And yet, mysteriously, references to me and my then-email addr

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-09 Thread jim bell 
 I'm trying to understand what you are saying, here...
         Jim Bell
On Friday, November 8, 2019, 07:04:31 PM PST, grarpamp  
wrote:  
 
 The yahoo set has gaps that may indicate
selective importation or subsequent takedown events.
Someone with more time should load up
other sources for 97 and see what msgs
fell between these msgids...



 --- missing 1 msg here ---
<5zhr1d53w1...@bwalk.dm.com>


<199702180330.taa21...@toad.com>
 --- missing 1 msg here ---
<199702180512.vaa23...@toad.com>


<199702210626.waa01...@toad.com>
 --- missing 1 msg here ---
EOF

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-08 Thread grarpamp 
The yahoo set has gaps that may indicate
selective importation or subsequent takedown events.
Someone with more time should load up
other sources for 97 and see what msgs
fell between these msgids...



 --- missing 1 msg here ---
<5zhr1d53w1...@bwalk.dm.com>


<199702180330.taa21...@toad.com>
 --- missing 1 msg here ---
<199702180512.vaa23...@toad.com>


<199702210626.waa01...@toad.com>
 --- missing 1 msg here ---
EOF

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-08 Thread jim bell 
y didn't want to have to justify, or explain, in court a 
prior  NON-warrant placement of a GPS tracking device perhaps long before 
October 2000.  So, they didn't have to ADD a new tracking device in October 
2000, when I think they wanted to openly justify placing a device.   Sounds 
odd, right?   Getting a warrant in late October 2000 was designed to conceal 
the fact that they ALREADY had 'bugged' the car (at least, for GPS) well before 
October 2000, and quite possibly as early as April 2000, or even earlier.
In fact, this was FRAUD.  When police get a warrant, they have to explain why 
they need it,  If, secretly, they already had placed another tracking device, 
they should have had to disclose to the court that they, quite literally, did 
not NEED another such device!!  In that case, the judge would have asked, "why, 
exactly, do you NEED ANOTHER ONE!?!?!"   To which they would have little answer,
Because if they had to disclose that information, they would have had to 
explain what they were trying to accomplish.   Remember the fake "appeal case" 
99-30210, secretly initiated in about June 1999.  Whether those 2000 followers 
were actually aware of that fake appeal case, they or their leaders were aware 
that I was seeking to expose them or their colleagues.  
 I have repeatedly explained that they were guilty of various crimes, and they 
knew that I could expose them.  THAT was their motivation to spy on me.
If you find this description hard to follow, I'm happy to expand on it, but 
first you're going to have to acknowledge that you actually intend to pursue 
this information, or openly deny it.  What do you intend to do?  
You also implied that these guys were somehow justified in following me.   I 
think I should be given a chance to challenge that assertion.  THEY might have 
"a story" that would seem to have withstood very brief questioning, but I have 
the advantage of 25 years of history and documentation on my side.  YOU should 
let me craft questions that YOU ask of THEM, and give ME their answers.  I 
believe I can blow these stories up so that it is obvious they are lying, or 
that they are following illegal orders from higher up,
If they are unwilling to do this, that is a very strong piece of evidence that 
they know they are guilty.  
Put simply, if you are really intending to be UNBIASED, you cannot treat "them" 
differently that you treat ME!!!  You must not act as if you are the agent of 
the Federal Government,
Nevertheless, you sound like you are reasonably confident in your source.  So, 
that implies that there may have been some miscommunication in the line,  I 
think you need to try again, not merely for your own benefit, but because I 
feel that I have a right to challenge your sources and their stories, At least, 
I am quite capable of writing and filing a libel lawsuit as well as most 
lawyers.  (Libel lawsuits are quite rare.)   I am very cooperative, but I 
expect you to meet me 'halfway', as they say,
  Start off by detailing this:  At least down to the year, ideally the month, 
etc.   Then, tell me what library you believe I visited, There's at least one 
library in Vancouver Washington.  (actually, an old, decommissioned one and a  
new replacement one.)  There may be others as well.  
I know there's a library in westside Portland, Oregon, but I don't think I 
visited it since about 1992, or even earlier.   I visited a library in Eastside 
Portland, but never before 2013.    No doubt there's a library in Beaverton, 
Oregon, but I don't recall where it is, and cannot recall ever visiting it.  
See the problem?   You've related an EXTREMELY vague, undated recollection that 
simply doesn't make sense.  I am more than willing to answer and help you out, 
but more information is necessary.  
And, I think you need to be willing to demand further information from whatever 
sources you have been talking and writing to,  Remember, I am alleging that 
they (or at least their colleagues) were busily committing crimes.  
           Jim Bell


On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 04:26:34 PM PDT, Brian Merchant 
 wrote:  
 
 I'd prefer it if you didn't CC me or the fact checker on your correspondence 
with other individuals. 
To answer your query, yes, I would like very much to expand on this piece or do 
another dedicated to your history, but I would not like to be involved in 
real-time correspondences or disputes with other persons. We can discuss the 
contents of your findings later on. Please remove me and Will from these 
emails. 
Thanks for your understanding. 
bcm
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:31 PM jim bell  wrote:

No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
Dear Mr. Busby,
On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
   , you said:
"I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may already be 
irrecoverably lost. If this is t

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread Zenaan Harkness 
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 05:26:34PM +, jim bell wrote:
>  On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, 04:11:33 AM PST, John Newman  
> wrote:
>  
>  On November 5, 2019 7:44:48 AM UTC, grarpamp  wrote:
> >> if anyone
> >> reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to
> >have
> >> them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
> >> processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those
> >archive
> >> files
> >
> >>Similarly, whatever is received here sits pending header anon,
> >>and merging. Merge msgs to a standard isn't much work
> >>depending on liberties taken, it's mostly get around to it,
> >>so the public sources sit pending that too, which seems
> >>the status of a few such projects that are busied out.
> >>Now If another nice unix mailbox and or some news spool,
> >>made its way here, that could be further motivational to lint
> >>and merge everything... If nothing turns up by year end I
> >>could reach out to sources, maybe even 1-800-NSA-DISK ;)
> >>Other old lists could be returned from such queries, but
> >>are probably already in well known textfiles archives already.
> >
> >>Then there's the GoogleGroups tragedy.
> >
> >>Anyway, if Jim's stuff ever pops up I'll post it.
> 
> >Maybe the feds have an archive...
> I already thought of that, but it seemed so obvious...
> Somewhere in that Utah multi-exabyte data complex...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWySZF709Kg
> 
> 
> 
> >... we can FOIA out of them ;)
> >Haha, doubtful.
> Which version?   The later, tampered-with version, or the earlier, correct 
> version?  Yet another "haha".
> But that would actually be a seriously good idea.  It would show what the 
> actual (we hope!) original data looked like, but it would also document the 
> history of various altered versions as they publicly appeared.  I haven't 
> tried to access the Wayback Machine yet, but did those venona files ever get 
> scraped?  Data point:  The government's original Venona project was shut down 
> in October 1980, and eventually declassified in 1995.   Hence, a good excuse 
> for making some files of old information named "venona".
> I should also mention the 'coincidence' of my July-2003 (re-)filing of my 
> lawsuit, with (I believe) a recent reference to the CP venona files, date 
> 2003.  Remember, the Feds would have read that lawsuit then, and a much less 
> extensive version a year earlier, and it was at  least at that point that 
> they knew they might be exposed.   Making the CP, or at least the portion 
> dealing with me and AP would have been a plausible response. 
> Note:  In addition to Wire Fraud and Evidence Tampering, they were
> guilty of Obstruction of Justice.  And probably a few dozen other
> statutes as well.
>               Jim Bell


A haiku, for you:

  Already hinted at.

  Not if done, by court order.

  Arse surely covered.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread Tom Busby 
The count was performed by me programmatically. That count represents all
the emails associated with that email address that are present in the
venona raw archives.

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 21:39, jim bell  wrote:

>
> I have another question:  on the CP archive page
> https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/authors/notable/
>
>  , it has an option to show "Notable Authors".  Finding my own listing, it
> states:
>
> Jim Bell
>
>- jim bell 
>
> 
> - *1118 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)
>
> 
> - *57 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com
>
> 
> - *1 posts*
>- jimb...@pacifier.com (jimbell)
>
> 
> - *1 posts*
>
>
> My posting count above, 1118, seems to be larger than anybody's, except
> for Tim May. I wonder over what time frame this posting-count is derived.   At
> least based on the 1995 forged archive, almost none of my messages that
> would have posted 1995 are there!  I would imagine that the largest
> proportion of my total sent messages, at least during 1995-1997, come from
> 1995. So, where did that count, "1118" come from??   And WHICH count does
> it appear to reflect:   The genuine count, or the forged count? And
> there's another question:  The vast majority of the messages which should
> have been directed "to" me in 1995 to not appear.   Do the people's
> message-counts who sent emails to me include those now-phantom emails, or
> omit them?
>Jim Bell
> ?
>
>

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread jim bell 
 
I have another question:  on the CP archive page  
https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/authors/notable/   
  , it has an option to show "Notable Authors".  Finding my own listing, it 
states:

Jim Bell
   
   - jim bell  - 1118 posts
   - jimb...@pacifier.com (Jim Bell) - 57 posts
   - jimb...@pacifier.com - 1 posts
   - jimb...@pacifier.com (jimbell) - 1 posts


| My posting count above, 1118, seems to be larger than anybody's, except for 
Tim May. I wonder over what time frame this posting-count is derived.  |  At 
least based on the 1995 forged archive, almost none of my messages that would 
have posted 1995 are there!  | I would imagine that the largest proportion of 
my total sent messages, at least during 1995-1997, come from 1995. | So, where 
did that count, "1118" come from??   | And WHICH count does it appear to 
reflect:   The genuine count, or the forged count? | And there's another 
question:  The vast majority of the messages which should have been directed 
"to" me in 1995 to not appear.   | Do the people's message-counts who sent 
emails to me include those now-phantom emails, or omit them? | 
 |                Jim Bell | 
 | ?

 |

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread jim bell 
 On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, 07:39:53 AM PST, John Young  
wrote:
 
 
 >This a good suggestion. NSA most likely to have archived the whole 
shebang, perhaps still does.

At this point, would the Feds even want to admit to running their operation in 
a manner so incompetently that they FAILED to capture the entire contents of 
the CP data?   Oh, the irony!!
              Jim Bell



Related, the "NSA Bot" which began siphoning Cryptome daily in 1996:

The NSA Bot

At 07:11 AM 11/5/2019, you wrote:

>Maybe the feds have an archive we can FOIA out of them ;)
>
>Haha, doubtful.
>




| 
| 
|  | 
The NSA Bot


 |

 |

 |

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread jim bell 
 On Tuesday, November 5, 2019, 04:11:33 AM PST, John Newman  
wrote:
 
 On November 5, 2019 7:44:48 AM UTC, grarpamp  wrote:
>> if anyone
>> reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to
>have
>> them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
>> processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those
>archive
>> files
>
>>Similarly, whatever is received here sits pending header anon,
>>and merging. Merge msgs to a standard isn't much work
>>depending on liberties taken, it's mostly get around to it,
>>so the public sources sit pending that too, which seems
>>the status of a few such projects that are busied out.
>>Now If another nice unix mailbox and or some news spool,
>>made its way here, that could be further motivational to lint
>>and merge everything... If nothing turns up by year end I
>>could reach out to sources, maybe even 1-800-NSA-DISK ;)
>>Other old lists could be returned from such queries, but
>>are probably already in well known textfiles archives already.
>
>>Then there's the GoogleGroups tragedy.
>
>>Anyway, if Jim's stuff ever pops up I'll post it.

>Maybe the feds have an archive...
I already thought of that, but it seemed so obvious...
Somewhere in that Utah multi-exabyte data complex...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWySZF709Kg



>... we can FOIA out of them ;)
>Haha, doubtful.
Which version?   The later, tampered-with version, or the earlier, correct 
version?  Yet another "haha".
But that would actually be a seriously good idea.  It would show what the 
actual (we hope!) original data looked like, but it would also document the 
history of various altered versions as they publicly appeared.  I haven't tried 
to access the Wayback Machine yet, but did those venona files ever get scraped? 
 Data point:  The government's original Venona project was shut down in October 
1980, and eventually declassified in 1995.   Hence, a good excuse for making 
some files of old information named "venona".
I should also mention the 'coincidence' of my July-2003 (re-)filing of my 
lawsuit, with (I believe) a recent reference to the CP venona files, date 2003. 
 Remember, the Feds would have read that lawsuit then, and a much less 
extensive version a year earlier, and it was at  least at that point that they 
knew they might be exposed.   Making the CP, or at least the portion dealing 
with me and AP would have been a plausible response. 
Note:  In addition to Wire Fraud and Evidence Tampering, they were guilty of 
Obstruction of Justice.  And probably a few dozen other statutes as well.
              Jim Bell

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread Razer 



On November 5, 2019 4:11:08 AM PST, John Newman  wrote:

>Maybe the feds have an archive we can FOIA out of them ;)
>

+1

http://getprsm.com/ has it. 


Rr
Sent from my Androgyne dee-vice with K-9 Mail

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread John Young 
This a good suggestion. NSA most likely to have archived the whole 
shebang, perhaps still does.


Related, the "NSA Bot" which began siphoning Cryptome daily in 1996:

https://cryptome.org/jya/nsa-bot.htm

At 07:11 AM 11/5/2019, you wrote:


Maybe the feds have an archive we can FOIA out of them ;)

Haha, doubtful.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-05 Thread John Newman 


On November 5, 2019 7:44:48 AM UTC, grarpamp  wrote:
>> if anyone
>> reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to
>have
>> them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
>> processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those
>archive
>> files
>
>Similarly, whatever is received here sits pending header anon,
>and merging. Merge msgs to a standard isn't much work
>depending on liberties taken, it's mostly get around to it,
>so the public sources sit pending that too, which seems
>the status of a few such projects that are busied out.
>Now If another nice unix mailbox and or some news spool,
>made its way here, that could be further motivational to lint
>and merge everything... If nothing turns up by year end I
>could reach out to sources, maybe even 1-800-NSA-DISK ;)
>Other old lists could be returned from such queries, but
>are probably already in well known textfiles archives already.
>
>Then there's the GoogleGroups tragedy.
>
>Anyway, if Jim's stuff ever pops up I'll post it.

Maybe the feds have an archive we can FOIA out of them ;)

Haha, doubtful.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-04 Thread grarpamp 
> if anyone
> reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to have
> them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
> processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those archive
> files

Similarly, whatever is received here sits pending header anon,
and merging. Merge msgs to a standard isn't much work
depending on liberties taken, it's mostly get around to it,
so the public sources sit pending that too, which seems
the status of a few such projects that are busied out.
Now If another nice unix mailbox and or some news spool,
made its way here, that could be further motivational to lint
and merge everything... If nothing turns up by year end I
could reach out to sources, maybe even 1-800-NSA-DISK ;)
Other old lists could be returned from such queries, but
are probably already in well known textfiles archives already.

Then there's the GoogleGroups tragedy.

Anyway, if Jim's stuff ever pops up I'll post it.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-04 Thread Tom Busby 
ther for someone else to attempt to finish the task.]
>
> Understand my opinion that "finishing the archive", while remaining a
> worthy goal, should not be considered the highest priority now,   As I said
> quite recently, you don't mow the grass when your house is burning down.
> I think this needs to be extremely well-publicized, to attract the
> attention of Cypherpunks who frequented the list in the mid-1995s.  We have
> their names, probably most of them, as they remain (in part?) in the
> archive.  And most of their subsequent email addresses probably appear in
> later archive years.   They may have archives of their own; now, they may
> have no idea that this old data is needed.
>
>
> >Whether or not those archives have willful deletions or modifications to
> the data, I've no idea, to be honest.
>
>
> Well, having examined and scanned the archive for 1995, I _do_ have an
> idea.  Due to the essentially complete absence of an extremely peculiar
> pattern of data strings, such as "Jim Bell", "jimb...@pacifier.com",
> "ap", and "assassination politics", yet a few examples of ' ap ' in about
> 15 examples but only where it doesn't mean "assassination politics"  " ap"
> meaning Associated Press, "killer ap",   all this is an extremely specific
> 'fingerprint' pointing to not merely an automatic search-and-replace, but
> in fact a careful and precise manipulation of the data.
> I am reminded of a quotation that I heard about 45 years ago, by Henry
> David Thoreau:
> https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/125881-it-s-circumstantial-evidence-like-finding-a-trout-in-the-milk
>
>
> “It's circumstantial evidence, like finding a trout in the
> milk.”
>
> "I would rely on others to notice and report things that seem strange."
>
> But I'm sure you understand that unless such a person possesses specific
> knowledge about what happened during 1995 on the CP list, he is very
> unlikely to spontaneously notice the meaning behind the data as it now
> appears to be.  Viewed in complete isolation, the virtually-complete data
> absence from February 14 to mid-July 1995 might 'look like" a simple
> omission of data, but the later absence of the strings above from
> July-December 1995 are far more unambiguous.  Put simply, everybody who
> sees what is pointed out as the outcome will agree there must have been an
> amazing fraud perpetrated.  I again express my well-educated opinion that
> the fraudster(s) very likely didn't actually forge any messages; rather
> he/they simply deleted threads and messages that contained references to
> me, my AP essay, and my then-current email address.  The pattern is quite
> clear,.
>
>  "Even then I'm not sure what to do about it."
>
> While it could be laughingly said that _I_, too, am not "sure" what to do
> about it, in extreme detail, I am quite confident that this is what
> constitutes approximately an "emergency".  Let's see if anybody disagrees,
> I have already made many suggestions.
>
>
>  >When coming across two distinct versions of what appear to be the same
> message, I'd probably just list both. That's all I can do really. This
> project appears to be complex in a lot of ways that weren't obvious at the
> start... which is a familiar story to anyone who sets out to solve a
> problem I guess :)
>
> Well, now you know enough about the truth that you can entirely change
> your point of view about this matter.   More eyes need to be brought in to
> this matter, including ones who have actual memories of the CP events of
> 1995.
>
>
> Tom
>
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 23:31, jim bell  wrote:
>
> No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
>
> Dear Mr. Busby,
>
> On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  The Cypherpunks Mailing List
> archives must be preserved
> <https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html>
>
> The Cypherpunks Mailing List archives must be preserved
>
> cryptoanarchy.wiki
>
> Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!
>
> <https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html>
>
>
>, you said:
>
> "I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may
> already be irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame
> for future generations who want to learn about this vital period of
> internet history and development. There is an argument that perhaps the
> list participants would like their privacy preserved, however I don’t think
> it is a strong one. An open-subscription mailing list

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-04 Thread jim bell 
f 
data strings, such as "Jim Bell", "jimb...@pacifier.com", "ap", and 
"assassination politics", yet a few examples of ' ap ' in about 15 examples but 
only where it doesn't mean "assassination politics"  " ap" meaning Associated 
Press, "killer ap",   all this is an extremely specific 'fingerprint' pointing 
to not merely an automatic search-and-replace, but in fact a careful and 
precise manipulation of the data.I am reminded of a quotation that I heard 
about 45 years ago, by Henry David Thoreau:  
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/125881-it-s-circumstantial-evidence-like-finding-a-trout-in-the-milk
           

“It's circumstantial evidence, like finding a trout in the milk.”


"I would rely on others to notice and report things that seem strange."
But I'm sure you understand that unless such a person possesses specific 
knowledge about what happened during 1995 on the CP list, he is very unlikely 
to spontaneously notice the meaning behind the data as it now appears to be.  
Viewed in complete isolation, the virtually-complete data absence from February 
14 to mid-July 1995 might 'look like" a simple omission of data, but the later 
absence of the strings above from July-December 1995 are far more unambiguous.  
Put simply, everybody who sees what is pointed out as the outcome will agree 
there must have been an amazing fraud perpetrated.  I again express my 
well-educated opinion that the fraudster(s) very likely didn't actually forge 
any messages; rather he/they simply deleted threads and messages that contained 
references to me, my AP essay, and my then-current email address.  The pattern 
is quite clear,.
 "Even then I'm not sure what to do about it."
While it could be laughingly said that _I_, too, am not "sure" what to do about 
it, in extreme detail, I am quite confident that this is what constitutes 
approximately an "emergency".  Let's see if anybody disagrees,  I have already 
made many suggestions.

 >When coming across two distinct versions of what appear to be the same 
message, I'd probably just list both. That's all I can do really. This project 
appears to be complex in a lot of ways that weren't obvious at the start... 
which is a familiar story to anyone who sets out to solve a problem I guess :)
Well, now you know enough about the truth that you can entirely change your 
point of view about this matter.   More eyes need to be brought in to this 
matter, including ones who have actual memories of the CP events of 1995.

Tom
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 23:31, jim bell  wrote:

No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
Dear Mr. Busby,
On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  The Cypherpunks Mailing List archives 
must be preserved

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
The Cypherpunks Mailing List archives must be preserved

cryptoanarchy.wiki

Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!
 |

 |

 |



   , you said:
"I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may already be 
irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame for future 
generations who want to learn about this vital period of internet history and 
development. There is an argument that perhaps the list participants would like 
their privacy preserved, however I don’t think it is a strong one. An 
open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a public forum. Posting to it is 
an act of placing information into the public domain."

No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There were 
clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even as early 
as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP emails, which 
were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard drives, possibly 
floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those hard drives were 
occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them were probably put on 
shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they were retired, they were 
not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are remarkable things:  If you 
put something on them, perhaps in a box, that object generally does not simply 
disappear after years or even decades.    So there was no immediate reason to 
throw those hard drives away, even if the potential value of that hardware 
gradually dropped.  So, in many cases, it can be expected that such hardware 
remains and is ultimately retrievable, 
(Only idiots like Razer think otherwise, apparently.)
Does anybody believe that EACH AND EVERY copy of ANY specific CP email was 
totally erased, everywhere around the world it happened to be.  Including, for 
instance, the NSA and other government TLA's?    How foolish!  
  But what you need to do, immediately, is to worry about a far more omnous 
reality, one that I have discovered within the last 3+ days.   I was a heavy 
participant in the Cypherpunks list

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-04 Thread Tom Busby 
Hi to all in general and Jim in particular,

I don't check the list all that often at the moment, I decided to do a
keyword search after I saw your disqus comment. It's good to hear from you,
I'm a fan of Assassination Politics. It's a thought provoking work
describing a dangerous idea of the kind that has always fascinated me :)

I'll repeat what I said in my reply on the page:

https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
<https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html#comment-4676616536>

Currently. Yes, the archive is basically just a clone of what's in the raw
files hosted on Ryan Lackey's venona site. I strongly, strongly suspect
that this has large amounts of missing data due to how quiet some periods
are, and also it ends in early 1999 anyway (with those emails tacked on to
the end of the 1998 archive).

I was provided with a (apparently) roughly complete archive for 2000 to
2016. This is hosted here currently:

https://github.com/cryptoanarchywiki/2000-to-2016-raw-cypherpunks-archive

I had strong ambitions of trying to index and merge all of the archives I
could get my hands on, but this is more challenging than you might think.
Determining which two emails are the same is very difficult when they
sometimes contain encoding errors, extra whitespace, differing text for
expressing the time of emails, etc (making hashing an infeasible way of
comparing them). I've also had an enormous amount of other commitments that
have preventing me working on this archive as much as I'd like (or at all
really, if I'm honest) over the past year.

The site is also a Jekyll-generated static site hosted on github. The sheer
number of pages is really approaching the limit of what's possible with
this approach. It takes over an hour to build the site currently. Adding
the 2000-2016 archive would be totally unworkable in this way. I also want
to index the messages in ElasticSearch or similar. The lack of a search
function is something that I feel is sorely lacking.

Sadly, for this reason, my attempts to synthesise all the available
incomplete archives of messages from this era have stalled :( it's there at
the back of my mind though, so I haven't lost the will to work on it, just
the time.

I hear your concerns about large numbers of missing emails, and if anyone
reading this has their own copies of the 1990s archives, I'd love to have
them. I can't make any promises about when I'll be able to work on
processing them, but rest assured I will take great care of those archive
files so that, should I fail to complete this task myself, those archives
will be collected together for someone else to attempt to finish the task.]

Whether or not those archives have willful deletions or modifications to
the data, I've no idea, to be honest. I would rely on others to notice and
report things that seem strange. Even then I'm not sure what to do about
it. When coming across two distinct versions of what appear to be the same
message, I'd probably just list both. That's all I can do really. This
project appears to be complex in a lot of ways that weren't obvious at the
start... which is a familiar story to anyone who sets out to solve a
problem I guess :)

Tom

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 23:31, jim bell  wrote:

> No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
>
> Dear Mr. Busby,
>
> On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
>  , you said:
>
> "I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may
> already be irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame
> for future generations who want to learn about this vital period of
> internet history and development. There is an argument that perhaps the
> list participants would like their privacy preserved, however I don’t think
> it is a strong one. An open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a
> public forum. Posting to it is an act of placing information into the
> public domain."
>
> No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There
> were clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even
> as early as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP
> emails, which were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard
> drives, possibly floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those
> hard drives were occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them
> were probably put on shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they
> were retired, they were not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are
> remarkable things:  If you put something on them, perhaps in a box, that
> object generally does not simply disappear after years or even decades.
> So there was no immedi

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread jim bell 
 On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 08:31:18 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness 
 wrote:
 
 
 On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:18:15AM -0300, Punk - Stasi 2.0 wrote:
> >On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 13:32:19 +1100
> >Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> 
> 
>> > Folks around here have been trying REALLY hard to stay pleasant, and
> >> respectful, and constructive, towards you specifically.
>  
>> > This includes everyone you rail against - me, Rayzer, Busby etc.
> 
> 
>>     what the fuck are you talking about - the only thing US military
>>     agent tazer has done is trolling and show that he is a completely
>>     retarded fucktard by claiming "the whole archive is missing" when
>>     it ovbviously isn't.

>Sometimes we just don't see what we can't see.
I guess you are using truisms with other people, too.


>Rayzer has (relatively gently/ light heartedly in my extremely high
opinion) attempted to mention "alternatives" to Jim, since Jim's
thinking seemed (possibly) to be both

 > a) limited

 ? b) inclined to accusations of others


>Frankly, although Jim was not able to hear that part of Rayzer's
attempt to communicate with him, that's at least a part of what may
be read into Rayzer's words - some good intentions.

>     it is pretty obvious that the archive provided by ryan lackey, US
>     MILITARY CONTRACTOR IN IRAQ, has been tampered with. 

>Of course this may well be the case.

>Nothing I've said suggests otherwise.

>Jim fell into threats, 

Thank you for reminding me!   I knew there was something I'd _forgotten_ to add 
to my comments!   I forgot the THREATS!  Ha ha!

>against someone who at least on a superficial
reading of his (Busby's) words, was attempting to assist Jim's
investigation.
Who was that person?  Quote him.  

>I am suggesting that Jim ought tone it down, for Jim's own benefit.
Well, since you seem to have misinterpreted my attempts at humor as something 
else...

>Threats are ugly.
Lies are ugly, too.  Falsely implying that somebody else made "threats" is a 
lie.  NOW, maybe you'll claim, "Jim falsely accused me of saying he'd given 
threats!".    See how this works?

> They are also demeaning to the one making the
threats and expose intolerance, anger and possible intentions
unspoken.
See, you write a general statement, as if you are referring to something else 
somebody actually said, and you OMIT the evidence or quote.


>Threats
Again, you imply that somebody has written a "threat".  How so?  Quote it.  
Exact words, please.  

> bring the attention of the law,
Actually, I have discovered that at least in America, in 1995 and later, using 
no threats at all, ALSO "brings the attention of the law".   Seemingly ANYTHING 
"brings the attention of the law". 

 >and possibly of psych ward
"infirmaries", and so it may be in Jim's interest to tone down in
regard to threatening folks.
It's curious that you are repeatedly using various forms of that word, 
"threat", "threats", "threatening", etc.
As if by your mere repetition of them, you could make your claim (or 
implications) true.  
One interesting interpretation is that you are aware, or at least you believe, 
that a "law enforcement" person could employ your imaginative uses of various 
forms of "threat" language, and write some form of a warrant which happens to 
gloss over the actual absence of any "threat", but focuses solely on somebody 
else's (your) repeated false implications.  Maybe the cop would write, "this 
Zenaan repeatedly accused the other person of giving threats!!!".   Perhaps 
some judges are too 'slow' to notice such slick manipulation.
Sorta the same way the Democrats got those FISA warrants in 2016.  
Maybe you think you're slick.  


>And in this regard, Razer is also bang on topic!
Which "regard"?


  

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Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread Zenaan Harkness 
On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 04:41:48AM +, jim bell wrote:
>  On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 07:32:44 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness 
>  wrote:
>  
>  
>  On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 10:31:09PM +, jim bell wrote:
> > No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
> > Dear Mr. Busby,
> > On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
> > https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
> >    , you said:
> 
> > Are you getting excited now, Mr. Busby?  It's only going to get more "real" 
> > from here on in.  "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night." 
> >                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vEEh0GF_C8   
> >                        Jim Bell
> 
> 
> >Jim, and I say this with care and concern - you're off the reservation.
> 
> But, I notice you don't explain how.  

I misread one of your sentences to Busby.

Apologies for that.

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread jim bell 
 On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 07:32:44 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness 
 wrote:
 
 
 On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 10:31:09PM +, jim bell wrote:
> No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
> Dear Mr. Busby,
> On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
>    , you said:

> Are you getting excited now, Mr. Busby?  It's only going to get more "real" 
> from here on in.  "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night."   
>                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vEEh0GF_C8   
>                        Jim Bell


>Jim, and I say this with care and concern - you're off the reservation.

But, I notice you don't explain how.  

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truism   
   First, you merely use the pronoun "things".  Couldn't you have been more 
specific?  And "everything"?  A truism:  Does anybody claim humans can see 
"everything"?  Not that I'm aware of.  So, it sure sounds like you are engaging 
in a 'strawman'.  So what did you actually mean?  You used words, which 
fortunately are available in great quantity with today's word-processors, but 
your constructions don't mean anything identifiable.

>Sometimes others see things that we don't see.
Yet another truism!

>There are known reasons that we fail to see things.
Yet another truism!   (I'm waiting for you to actually say something useful.  
Maybe you'll eventually get there?)

>We fail to see things usually about ourselves, but also in the world,
or generally."
Yet another truism.

>There are specific and well studied reasons why we humans sometimes
don't see things.
Yet another truism.

>These reasons why we don't see things are closely related to the
classical human "psychological" failings (passions of the mind, seven
deadly sins etc):
A bit more involved, but still a truism.  Notice that if the above sentence 
were split from the whole, and handed to a person of ordinary intelligence, he 
wouldn't be able to figure out where in this (or any!) discussion it came from. 
 There is no context, and nothing links it to a coherent thought.  It could 
have been written 10 years ago, for a different conversation with somebody 
else, or no conversation at all, and today sprinked into his commentary the way 
people sprinkle salt into food,


  >anger
  impatience
  pride
  lust
  greed
  slothfulness/ laziness
  envy/ jealousy
  vanity
  etc
Yes?!?


>I have been "pulled up" in my thinking and words many times -
including by folks on this here mailing list - thus my notable short
supply of brown paper bags to hand out.
It's obvious your words are all from the English language, and they fit 
together in sentences, but there is still something missing.

>Anger is a great driver for some people, especially when great wrongs
have been done to them, either in childhood, and/ or as an adult.
How does that apply to anything?

>Anger can feel empowering, and it can empower us to commit evil
against others, to engage in atrocities in the (possibly unseen) hope
to release the angry feelz inside us that we feel.
How does that apply to anything?

>Anger is also one of the foundation causes for us to "not see the
obvious", even when others may very clearly name for us (what to them
is) the obvious point we're missing.
How does that apply to anything?


>Jim - it's time for you to listen up!

You could insert that sentence virtually anywhere, in a comment directed to 
anybody who happened to be named "Jim".  Why is it HERE?


>This is really important.

That's another very short sentence that could go anywhere and mean equally 
little.  HOW is WHAT "important"???

>Even though some of the following you may not agree with!
Yet another sentence that could go anywhere.  Maybe you have a machine, like a 
BINGO machine, with little balls that you've written sentences on.  Pop the 
machine, get a random ball, copy down what its sentence said.  Repeat ad 
nauseum.  Maybe in the end you will create a seeminly-credible conversation.  
Remember that "infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of 
typewriters" writing Hamlet"?

>Folks around here have been trying REALLY hard to stay pleasant, and
respectful, and constructive, towards you specifically.

Actually, there seem to be very few people around here.  Where has everybody 
gone?

>This includes everyone you rail against - me, Rayzer, Busby etc.
Where do you get the idea that I "rail against" this Busby?  He hasn't even 
appeared, and as far as I know, he hasn't done anything wrong.  It seems to me 
that he appears to have been given "lemons" (a database missing a lot) and made 
"lemonade" (an archive that, likewise, contains many omissions.)   But, so far 
we don't have any indication that Bu

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread Zenaan Harkness 
On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:18:15AM -0300, Punk - Stasi 2.0 wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 13:32:19 +1100
> Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Folks around here have been trying REALLY hard to stay pleasant, and
> > respectful, and constructive, towards you specifically.
>  
> > This includes everyone you rail against - me, Rayzer, Busby etc.
> 
> 
>   what the fuck are you talking about - the only thing US military
>   agent tazer has done is trolling and show that he is a completely
>   retarded fucktard by claiming "the whole archive is missing" when
>   it ovbviously isn't.

Sometimes we just don't see what we can't see.

Rayzer has (relatively gently/ light heartedly in my extremely high
opinion) attempted to mention "alternatives" to Jim, since Jim's
thinking seemed (possibly) to be both

  a) limited

  b) inclined to accusations of others


Frankly, although Jim was not able to hear that part of Rayzer's
attempt to communicate with him, that's at least a part of what may
be read into Rayzer's words - some good intentions.



>   it is pretty obvious that the archive provided by ryan lackey, US
>   MILITARY CONTRACTOR IN IRAQ, has been tampered with. 

Of course this may well be the case.

Nothing I've said suggests otherwise.

Jim fell into threats, against someone who at least on a superficial
reading of his (Busby's) words, was attempting to assist Jim's
investigation.

I am suggesting that Jim ought tone it down, for Jim's own benefit.

Threats are ugly. They are also demeaning to the one making the
threats and expose intolerance, anger and possible intentions
unspoken.

Threats bring the attention of the law, and possibly of psych ward
"infirmaries", and so it may be in Jim's interest to tone down in
regard to threatening folks.




And in this regard, Razer is also bang on topic!

Re: No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread Zenaan Harkness 
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 10:31:09PM +, jim bell wrote:
> No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
> Dear Mr. Busby,
> On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
> https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
>    , you said:

> Are you getting excited now, Mr. Busby?  It's only going to get more "real" 
> from here on in.  "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night."   
>                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vEEh0GF_C8   
>                        Jim Bell


Jim, and I say this with care and concern - you're off the reservation.

It appears to some that you are not seeing things, which is human
nature - we humans (!) tend to be NOT able to see everything.

Sometimes others see things that we don't see.

There are known reasons that we fail to see things.

We fail to see things usually about ourselves, but also in the world,
or generally.

There are specific and well studied reasons why we humans sometimes
don't see things.

These reasons why we don't see things are closely related to the
classical human "psychological" failings (passions of the mind, seven
deadly sins etc):

  anger
  impatience
  pride
  lust
  greed
  slothfulness/ laziness
  envy/ jealousy
  vanity
  etc


I have been "pulled up" in my thinking and words many times -
including by folks on this here mailing list - thus my notable short
supply of brown paper bags to hand out.

Anger is a great driver for some people, especially when great wrongs
have been done to them, either in childhood, and/ or as an adult.

Anger can feel empowering, and it can empower us to commit evil
against others, to engage in atrocities in the (possibly unseen) hope
to release the angry feelz inside us that we feel.

Anger is also one of the foundation causes for us to "not see the
obvious", even when others may very clearly name for us (what to them
is) the obvious point we're missing.



Jim - it's time for you to listen up!

This is really important.

Even though some of the following you may not agree with!

Folks around here have been trying REALLY hard to stay pleasant, and
respectful, and constructive, towards you specifically.

This includes everyone you rail against - me, Rayzer, Busby etc.

Not seeing when people are going OUT OF THEIR WAY to help you, is a
big warning sign to us, that you are unblanced (to say the least).


  More anger, will not solve your problems!


You might try to identify within yourself and give up, as quickly as
you are capable, a little bit of that pride and certainty you have!

Then also give up some anger (all of it ideally).


Folks round here want to make the world a better place - you may not
see that, and we often (vehemently) disagree amongst ourselves on
plenty of shit!


But we share one thing in common - we want to see a better world, we
want to figure out how to make a better world, how to fix some of the
problems we see, we know, we suffer.


Good luck,

No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.

2019-11-02 Thread jim bell 
No, Mr. Busby, there is a Santa Claus.
Dear Mr. Busby,
On the Cypherpunks Archive web page,  
https://cryptoanarchy.wiki/blog/2018/07/05/the-cypherpunks-mailing-list-archives-must-be-preserved.html
   , you said:
"I have an uneasy feeling that many of the posts from this era may already be 
irrecoverably lost. If this is true it would be a great shame for future 
generations who want to learn about this vital period of internet history and 
development. There is an argument that perhaps the list participants would like 
their privacy preserved, however I don’t think it is a strong one. An 
open-subscription mailing list is ultimately a public forum. Posting to it is 
an act of placing information into the public domain."

No, Mr. Busby, you need not worry about that specific possibility.   There were 
clearly hundreds of people who subscribed to the CP email list, even as early 
as mid 1995.  Each of them regularly received copies of posted CP emails, which 
were presumably reliably stored onto their computers' hard drives, possibly 
floppy disks, and eventually possibly backup tapes. Those hard drives were 
occasionally retired, but when that happened many of them were probably put on 
shelves to gather dust.  Remember, at the moment they were retired, they were 
not considered totally worthless.  And shelves are remarkable things:  If you 
put something on them, perhaps in a box, that object generally does not simply 
disappear after years or even decades.    So there was no immediate reason to 
throw those hard drives away, even if the potential value of that hardware 
gradually dropped.  So, in many cases, it can be expected that such hardware 
remains and is ultimately retrievable, 
(Only idiots like Razer think otherwise, apparently.)
Does anybody believe that EACH AND EVERY copy of ANY specific CP email was 
totally erased, everywhere around the world it happened to be.  Including, for 
instance, the NSA and other government TLA's?    How foolish!  
  But what you need to do, immediately, is to worry about a far more omnous 
reality, one that I have discovered within the last 3+ days.   I was a heavy 
participant in the Cypherpunks list from perhaps March 1995 onwards, and for a 
couple of years.  And, quite unlike most of the now-current subscribers, the 
large majority of whom were not on the CP list in 1995, I can actually REMEMBER 
the general events of that time frame.   Which is one of the main reasons I 
have a powerful advantage as I studied a specific kind of message and text that 
is, or at least SHOULD BE, in the Cypherpunks archive for 1995.
You, sorting through a veritable ocean of look-sorta-alike data, are very 
unlikely to spontaneously notice what data happens to be "missing".  If you go 
into a forest, how can you notice one missing tree, or a dozen?  (Yes, a 
sawed-off stump remains an excellent clue.)  I, however, knowing that my name  
(jim bell) and my old email adddress (jimb...@pacifier.com), and references to 
'assassination politics' and 'AP' should be heavily present, have a huge 
advantage.  If they aren't (still) there, I will notice it.  And they aren't. 
And I did.  You presumably don't notice it, at least not until I explain what 
should be present, yet isn't present.  Quite understandable.  But now you know.
I suggest that you read my comments for the last 3 or so days on CP.   In some 
of them, I point out that the text string 'jim bell' does not seem to be 
present in the 1995 archive you are maintaining, nor in the Venona file for 
that year.  And the text string 'AP', in the limited meaning of the name of my 
1995 essay, "Assassination Politics", which soon enough the vast majority of 
the time was shortened to merely 'AP'.  Yet, I first entered the CP list about 
March 1995, and was solidly responding to dozens, of messages, per day.  And 
other people, many dozens of them, were posting similar, and responding, 
messages back to me, and to others on the list.  None of that seems to be 
present, at least not before November 2005, and yet it is solidly present in 
2006.
 And yet, mysteriously, references to me and my then-email address, 
jimb...@pacifier.com simply don't occur until November 1995.  But if you 
compare the 1996 archive, and the Venona-file equivalent, you will see that 
these text strings are subsequently heavily present that later year, 1996, as 
in fact they should also have been for more than the last half of the year 
1995.  And in fact, there should be far more references to "AP", per day in 
mid-late 1995, than eventually would be (and, I presume, still are) found in 
1996.
(only clueless, malicious people like Razer don't comprehend this, or at least 
they pretend not to be able to figure it out.)
Since you are sympathetic to the Cypherpunks cause (why else would you be 
here?), I can tell you that there is some very good news,  There is no reason 
to believe, now that I have disco