Re: Net Result of Snowden

[Ryan Carboni]

>
>
> And if you're up against an adversary 1 or 2 above can't handle, let us
> know what your secret number 3 and grand operation was someday
> before you die, become a legend ;)
>
>

It is very simple. When facing an immense conspiracy exploit internal
contradictions, and increase the degree of Clausewitzian frictions to an
untenable point where the giant combine's gears are being fed sand. Take
every action possible that will not worsen your situation, and do not
follow your enemy's script, or failing that, follow your enemy's script but
take actions in scrambled order. Sometimes it is best to engage with
extreme caution, to collect evidence to build a case of the existence of a
conspiracy.

Keep your ear out for every possibility.


These are elementary rational steps, and is the core concept of any
warfighting strategy in all eras. Worsen your enemy's position while not
worsening your own. Everything flows from that.

Besides, it is funny how the Tor project isn't DDOSed. Costs only $100,000
per month to take it out. It's not complex math. The fact that it exists,
implies that there are hidden interests.

An enemy that does that act in favor of his obvious interests means he has
hidden interests. To defeat your opponent, act in favor of your own
interests and deny your enemy's ability to achieve his to pressure a
quicker resolution.


Yeah, I read things and I actually understood them. As opposed to the
million walking Chinese rooms.



Also, by the way, a lot of the things the NSA does isn't actually
classified. Robert Graham talks about them all the time. (which makes you
lot hilariously incompetent)

http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/05/no-you-cant-remotely-turn-on-phones.html

Apparently the baseband processor is totally insecure. Has any made any
research into this? To whose interests is this inaction benefiting? Who is
working for whom?

Do not fight to fight. Fight to win. Otherwise you are just wasting your
time.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[grarpamp]

Which is why the obvious of battery removal / bat switch mod.
And why far less realistic possibility of supercap / nearfield power.
And muffling [like in a wad of clothing, both for inbound recording,
and HF audio transmission of databits out...].
Were mentioned.

And if the fucker is somehow still powered, and you need to
cancel last remaining leak we didn't cover of its LF vibrator
alert output, best put it on your gonads and call it an orgasm LOL,
because at that point of powerful adversary you're 0wn3d anyways,
might as well enjoy it :)

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[Steve Kinney]

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Hash: SHA1



On 02/15/2017 08:32 PM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 02/15/2017 05:13 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> [1] None of the phones I've wrapped in a single layer of
>> standard weight foil folded over once at the edge have been able
>> to send or receive calls / sms / data (cellular or wifi).
> 
> 
> I'd been waiting for someone to say this. The RF power output is
> pretty low to start with and almost any metal surrounding,
> especially if it's grounded, would mean the surveillance device
> would have to be with the phone... even if the cage leaked the
> signal strength would be almost nil.
> 
> But don't forget the "Aftercare"... It ALWAYS works.

Also, don't forget that a cell phone that appears to be "off" is not
reliably so if the battery is connected - and it may be recording
everything it hears for transmission the next time if finds a network
connection.



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Re: Net Result of Snowden

[Razer]

On 02/15/2017 05:13 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> [1] None of the phones I've wrapped in a single layer of standard
> weight foil folded over once at the edge have been able to send or
> receive calls / sms / data (cellular or wifi).


I'd been waiting for someone to say this. The RF power output is pretty
low to start with and almost any metal surrounding, especially if it's
grounded, would mean the surveillance device would have to be with the
phone... even if the cage leaked the signal strength would be almost nil.

But don't forget the "Aftercare"... It ALWAYS works.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[grarpamp]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:53 PM, jim bell  wrote:
> large container of water ... microwave

Being in rooms that supply, or carrying around, both of these items
is likely to be an uncommon situation, and difficult, impractical, and
unreliable.

So don't forget the obvious solution for the two most typical ops...

1) Don't carry a phone.
or

2) If you have to carry, carry one with a removable [or switch
modded] battery. Turn it off, remove the battery, data, SIM.
2a) Carry an anonymous phone whose bits are linked to nothing
2b) Encrypt and lock with passphrase
2c) Aluminum foil can be carried easily and seems effective insurance [1].
2d) Note any supercaps and nearfield charging issues,
along with audio muffling in those cases.

Last, don't forget aftercare... hammer the fucker into bits
and dispose accordingly.

[1] None of the phones I've wrapped in a single layer of standard
weight foil folded over once at the edge have been able to send or
receive calls / sms / data (cellular or wifi). Carrying enough heavy weight
foil to both wrap double and fold double is equally practical and
won't tear up as soon.
Throw a spectrum analyzer at it if you want to test for sure,
which you should if you you're an operator, because I haven't
and I'm not so don't trust me or anyone else.

And if you're up against an adversary 1 or 2 above can't handle, let us
know what your secret number 3 and grand operation was someday
before you die, become a legend ;)

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[jim bell]

 From: Beaker Meeps 
On 2/14/2017 2:04 PM, jim bell wrote:
> *From:* Ryan Carboni 
> 
>>I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone works
> fine in the microwave.
> 
> You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
> 
> Try putting a large plastic or glass container of water in the
> microwave, with the cell phone.  (say, 1/2 gallon of water.)
> A microwave cavity, alone, is fairly well-shielded.  But it is also
> very low-loss without a "load", an object within it that will absorb the
> 2.45 GHz microwave energy.  Usually food, of course.
> 
> One thing that would be useful is an app which showed the received
> signal strength for that cell phone, to a resolution much better than
> the usual 5-bar display.  

>Well put.   
A good radio receiver can have a dynamic range of 100 decibels.  (or, a 10**10, 
a factor of 10 billion) range over which a signal can be input and still give a 
useful, even good-quality result. 
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/receivers/dynamic_range/dynamic_range.php
I could not quickly find a figure as to the typical shielding provided by a 
microwave oven, but let's suppose it's 60 db, or a factor of 1 million 
reduction.  You can see that if the signal outside the oven is, say, 80 db over 
the minimum detectable level, putting it into that oven would reduce it to 
80-60db, or 20 db, still a very useable signal.  Thus, it would appear that the 
phone works fine in that oven.  Adding a large container of water into that 
cavity could further reduce the signal level.
Also, be aware that the effectiveness of shielding in a microwave oven may be 
frequency-dependent.  In some cases, I have seen a "channel" within the 
door-seal structure that I suspect is designed to oscillate at a microwave 
oven's frequency:  2.45 GHz.   Thus, it blocks that signal, but it might not do 
so well at blocking at a typical cell phone's frequencies,  900 Mhz, 1800 Mhz, 
and 1900 MHz.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies      
Combining use of a microwave, with wrapping a phone in a couple layers of 
aluminum foil, should work okay to block it.  ×   

         Jim Bell

For the curious:

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=41755.0

tl;dr - frequency bands are different. Although some get lucky because
of the wall density.




   

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[John Young]

Twas a hoot in Hong Kong when Snowden gulled the hapless reporters with
ludicrous comsec stagecraft of pillows at door sill and refridged cellphones,
while the landline phone, laptops and video remained bare-assed, not 
to overlook

emanations grabbers galore now standard in hotels, conferences, transit, comms,
restaurants, civil liberties lawyers and orgs. Unlikely any of the journos were
uncontaminated before, during and after, nor the alleged aids to Ed's hideout
and travel.

It continues: Ed's persistent recommendations for comsec and privacy are
as juvenile as the promotional campaign boy-in-the bubbling of him, the giant
head videos, the robotic person to crowd display devices, the obviously
ghost-written, lawyer and journo vetted statements, the prolonged dangling
and dribbling docs crudely tampered with by redactions, partial releases,
excessive hype, movies, documentaries, books, speeches, award -- all
this represents a sophiticated publicity operation characteristic of a nation
state being fronted by selected and highly-rewarded journalists and, who
else but ACLU and the running companions amply funded by the usual
conceited deep-pocketed bribers.

No surprise WikiLeaks fell under the spell of bail-out saviors, jumped
to leverage Snowden for its purposes and took the irresistable bait of
institutional wealth in The Intercept/Freedom of the Press, et al, manner:
wearing the magic cloak of government-protected journalism to cover
ass and minimize risk while braying about security and public interest,
and the era's favorite braggardy, claiming to have far more information
than can be released, now and then offering up ever larger mysterious
insurance files. Code word: holders of unreleased material know shit
the public cannot ever have access to, the asymmetric mantra of spies
and god's select since exploitive fear and ignorance was invented as
gospel.

Not that that is very different from the origin of cypherpunks: it has
produced a slew of godspelling bastards like Assange, Snowden,
moi and others still here who may out themselves. Snowdens are
being invented persistently, which is probably a good thing to
give Trump and his thugs no mercy, no privacy, no security, no
peace of mind, no chance of doing what they dream of.


At 07:49 AM 2/15/2017, you wrote:



On February 15, 2017 3:48:04 AM EST, juan  wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:32:41 -0500
>Beaker Meeps  wrote:
>
>> On 2/14/2017 2:04 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> > *From:* Ryan Carboni 
>> >
>> >>I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone
>works
>> > fine in the microwave.
>> >
>> > You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
>> >
>
>   if you want your phone to not receive calls you have to TURN ON
>   the oven. This should be obvious...

Haha.

I think microwaves don't make the best faraday cages. Like an old 
schizophrenic friend of mine was wont to do, you can always stick to 
aluminum foil. Or better yet buy a cheap faraday bag and put the phone in that.


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[John Newman]

On February 15, 2017 3:48:04 AM EST, juan  wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:32:41 -0500
>Beaker Meeps  wrote:
>
>> On 2/14/2017 2:04 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> > *From:* Ryan Carboni 
>> > 
>> >>I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone
>works
>> > fine in the microwave.
>> > 
>> > You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
>> > 
>
>   if you want your phone to not receive calls you have to TURN ON
>   the oven. This should be obvious...

Haha.

I think microwaves don't make the best faraday cages. Like an old schizophrenic 
friend of mine was wont to do, you can always stick to aluminum foil. Or better 
yet buy a cheap faraday bag and put the phone in that.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[juan]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:32:41 -0500
Beaker Meeps  wrote:

> On 2/14/2017 2:04 PM, jim bell wrote:
> > *From:* Ryan Carboni 
> > 
> >>I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone works
> > fine in the microwave.
> > 
> > You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
> > 

if you want your phone to not receive calls you have to TURN ON
the oven. This should be obvious...

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[Beaker Meeps]

On 2/14/2017 2:04 PM, jim bell wrote:
> *From:* Ryan Carboni 
> 
>>I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone works
> fine in the microwave.
> 
> You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
> 
> Try putting a large plastic or glass container of water in the
> microwave, with the cell phone.  (say, 1/2 gallon of water.)
> A microwave cavity, alone, is fairly well-shielded.   But it is also
> very low-loss without a "load", an object within it that will absorb the
> 2.45 GHz microwave energy.  Usually food, of course.
> 
> One thing that would be useful is an app which showed the received
> signal strength for that cell phone, to a resolution much better than
> the usual 5-bar display.  

Well put.

For the curious:

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=41755.0

tl;dr - frequency bands are different. Although some get lucky because
of the wall density.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[grarpamp]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:04 PM, jim bell  wrote:
> From: Ryan Carboni 
>
>> I have written down so notes on the movie.

Net result so far seems to be some conscious anti-spying
adoption of crypto by the public, and even by corps (really
just metoo offering into that demand lest they lose base / face
to competition, yet not so much in a way that would diminish
their ability to mine and sell you).
A lot of prominent people, even the occaisional CEO,
speaking out, and doing, on principle about things.
A whole lot of journos profiteering and pulling Greenwalds, note
the dozens of 'trust us to journo' securedrops now popping up for fools
to feed raw data into their interpretive editorial bleaching machines.
And a bunch of litigious rights orgs doing what they can up against...
Effectively zero direct coordinated legislative effort by public to
shut it down.
That's the real problem.
SOPA was black for a day.
Snowden should have been black for a month, for infinity,
but pretty much looked like crickets. And now that first
chance moment has passed. Nothing really changed.
And second chances rarely come. Sad.

> One thing that would be useful is an app which showed the received signal
> strength for that cell phone, to a resolution much better than the usual
> 5-bar display.

Some old feature phones had detailed numeric diag screens
for the radio side as part of their firmware you could access
by entering "secret" keypad codes. New smartphones
might have some api, or AT commands, never looked into it.

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[jim bell]

 From: Ryan Carboni 

   >I have written down so notes on the movie. Also, my cell phone works fine 
in the microwave.
You might be very near a cell-phone tower.
Try putting a large plastic or glass container of water in the microwave, with 
the cell phone.  (say, 1/2 gallon of water.)A microwave cavity, alone, is 
fairly well-shielded.   But it is also very low-loss without a "load", an 
object within it that will absorb the 2.45 GHz microwave energy.  Usually food, 
of course.
One thing that would be useful is an app which showed the received signal 
strength for that cell phone, to a resolution much better than the usual 5-bar 
display.  
         Jim Bell, N7IJS  ("World's Last Tech-Plus Ham")


   

Re: Net Result of Snowden

[Ryan Carboni]

>
> As a
> bonus, it has been established that the DCI can lie to Congress and
> break into Congress members' computers with NO consequences of ANY
> kind.
>
>
Artificial conflict. Could have been avoided by demanding that the CIA copy
the data and provide it for the Senate to view on their secure internal
network.

Our courts have secure classified facilities separate from the executive
branch.

Although maybe that would be a bad idea, it turns out that the upper
reaches of our government has been penetrated by the Muslim Brotherhood.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-11/alleged-muslim-spy-ring-why-rex-tillerson-cleaned-house