Re: [czernowitz-l] Czernowitz Marriages

[Benjamin Grilj]

Dear Berti,
until 1938 ordinary marriage in todays Austria was recorded at the religious 
communities- there were only a few civilian. WW I changed a lot in the 
successor states, because some changed too a civilian system, others not. 
Bukowina was a little different because of the 1893 registration law (so even 
long before WW I)… so, to quote the former Austrian chancellor: everything is a 
little complicate ;)
But if a marriage was recorded, it was official.
Best, b

send by my iPhone

> Am 25.07.2022 um 13:58 schrieb Berti Glaubach :
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with WWI. Many years before Jewish religious marriages 
> were also legitimized, at their own request to civilian ones and this forf 
> various practical reasons.
> Mostly legitimizing the parenthood of the father.of their children. 
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 4:43 AM Benjamin Grilj  
>> wrote:
>> Dear Les,
>> official marriage was done by official clergy - for Jewish marriages this 
>> means all rabbis from communities wich were member of the „Israelitische 
>> Kultusgemeinde“ (IKG -Jewish Community Organization). The big synagogues 
>> like the old, or the temple were members, but many small, especially 
>> chassidic were not. But they were not registered in the Matrikenbüchern 
>> (official register). So if you have a marriage record, it is official!
>> Best, Benjamin (Institute for Jewish History in Austria)
>> 
>> send by my iPhone
>> 
 Am 24.07.2022 um 16:37 schrieb lhg...@aol.com:
 
>>>  I found a marriage record for my great grandparents in Czernowitz from 
>>> 1918. This was just after the war was over. My great grandfather Meschulim 
>>> Fuhrman was 63 years old then and this would have to be some sort of 
>>> official remarriage. My grandmother was already 30 years old at this point.
>>> I know that the Austrian authorities did not recognize marriages performed 
>>> by rabbis.
>>> Was this a common practice to legitimize marriages after the war ?
>>> Thanks for any help
>>> 
>>> Les Gluck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
>>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject 
>>> of  
>>>  Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions 
>>> expressed
>>>  in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not 
>>> necessarily
>>>  the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
>>>  or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has 
>>>  an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a  
>>>  searchable archive of all messages posted to this list.   Beginning in 
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>>> 
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>>>  
>>> 
>> 
>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject 
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>> necessarily
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Wo Es war, soll Ich sein.

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Re: [czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Benjamin Grilj]

Dear Mr. Covert,
in line 2026 you can see a query on the right side, I can not read since i am 
on vacation and just have my phone with me. Take a look at the Friedhofsbuch 
(cemetery books) at the IKG Archiv (should be Gate 4).
Best, b

send by my iPhone

> Am 25.07.2022 um 19:09 schrieb Glen W. Covert 
> :
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Grilj,
> 
> Since my response message bounced from the listserv because the image of 
> Jakob Brunstein's death entry was too large, I'm resending my message (see 
> below) without the attachment because I think my question could be helpful 
> for others.
> 
> With Regards,
> 
> Glen Covert
> -
> Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
> Göschlgasse 12/19
> A1030 Vienna
> Austria
> glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
> www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 7:01 PM Glen W. Covert 
>>  wrote:
>> Dear Mr. Grilj,
>> 
>> Thank you for your quick reply.
>> 
>> Attached is Jakob Brunstein's death entry (see line 2026). Since nothing 
>> seems to indicate his remains were transferred, are we to understand that 
>> his wishes were not carried out? I ask because the Jewish Cemetery has not 
>> responded to my inquiry about this precise detail.
>> 
>> With Regards,
>> 
>> Glen Covert
>> -
>> Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
>> Göschlgasse 12/19
>> A1030 Vienna
>> Austria
>> glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
>> www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 6:35 PM Benjamin Grilj  
>>> wrote:
>>> Sehr geehrte Frau Bartz,
>>> werter Herr Covert,
>>> 
>>> Sorry - ich hab die Mails durcheinander gebracht am Telefon.
>>> Eine Umbettung muss entweder in der Sterbematrik oder im Friedhofsbuch des 
>>> CF verzeichnet sein. Beide Bücher sind im Archiv der IKG Wien.
>>> Beste Grüße, Benjamin
>>> 
>>> Short version in english: the wanted Infos has to be in the death records 
>>> or cemetery books - both still available at the archives of the Jewish 
>>> Community Vienna.
>>> Best, b

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Re: [czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Glen W. Covert]

Dear Mr. Grilj,

Since my response message bounced from the listserv because the image of
Jakob Brunstein's death entry was too large, I'm resending my message (see
below) without the attachment because I think my question could be helpful
for others.

With Regards,

Glen Covert
-
Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
Göschlgasse 12/19
A1030 Vienna
Austria
glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 7:01 PM Glen W. Covert <
glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Grilj,
>
> Thank you for your quick reply.
>
> Attached is Jakob Brunstein's death entry (see line 2026). Since nothing
> seems to indicate his remains were transferred, are we to understand that
> his wishes were not carried out? I ask because the Jewish Cemetery has not
> responded to my inquiry about this precise detail.
>
> With Regards,
>
> Glen Covert
> -
> Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
> Göschlgasse 12/19
> A1030 Vienna
> Austria
> glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
> www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com
>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 6:35 PM Benjamin Grilj 
> wrote:
>
>> Sehr geehrte Frau Bartz,
>> werter Herr Covert,
>>
>> Sorry - ich hab die Mails durcheinander gebracht am Telefon.
>> Eine Umbettung muss entweder in der Sterbematrik oder im Friedhofsbuch
>> des CF verzeichnet sein. Beide Bücher sind im Archiv der IKG Wien.
>> Beste Grüße, Benjamin
>>
>> Short version in english: the wanted Infos has to be in the death records
>> or cemetery books - both still available at the archives of the Jewish
>> Community Vienna.
>> Best, b
>>
>

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Re: [czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Benjamin Grilj]

Sehr geehrte Frau Bartz,
werter Herr Covert,

Sorry - ich hab die Mails durcheinander gebracht am Telefon.
Eine Umbettung muss entweder in der Sterbematrik oder im Friedhofsbuch des CF 
verzeichnet sein. Beide Bücher sind im Archiv der IKG Wien.
Beste Grüße, Benjamin

Short version in english: the wanted Infos has to be in the death records or 
cemetery books - both still available at the archives of the Jewish Community 
Vienna.
Best, b

send by my iPhone

> Am 25.07.2022 um 18:25 schrieb Benjamin Grilj :
> 
> Sehr geehrte Frau Bartz,
> werter Herr Covert,
> 
> Haben Sie schon die Seite des jüdischen Museums Meran durchsucht? Frau Mayr, 
> Herr Innerhofer und sein Team leisten großartige Arbeit zur jüdischen 
> Geschichte Südtirols (und weit darüber hinaus)
> 
> http://www.meranoebraica.it/node/51
> 
> Beste Grüße,
> Benjamin (Institut für jüdische Geschichte Österreichs)
> 
> Short version in Englisch:
> for Jewish History of Southern Tyrol the Team Mayr/Innerhofer did amazing 
> work and collected all in databases cf Link.
> Best, b
> 
> send by my iPhone
> 
>>> Am 25.07.2022 um 14:00 schrieb Glen W. Covert 
>>> :
>>> 
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I'm writing on behalf of a client of mine, Ms. Bartz, who's cc'd on this 
>> message. Her mother tongue is German, so she's asked me to assist her with 
>> the language barrier.
>> 
>> Her question: Does anyone know if the remains of Jakob Brunstein (1836, 
>> Czerowitz - 1916, Vienna) were transferred from the Jewish Cemetery at 
>> Vienna's Central Cemetery to the cemetery at Radautz after World War One?
>> 
>> When he died in 1916, Jakob was buried in the Jewish Cemetery, but in his 
>> will and last testament, he specifically requested for his remains to be 
>> transported to Radautz for reburial after the end of the war (whenever that 
>> would be). We have already reached out to the Jewish Cemetery's 
>> administration as well as the administrator of the cemetery at Radautz, but 
>> their responses or lack there of leave the question unanswered. A multi-year 
>> attempt to gain access to the old cemetery in Radautz was effectively denied.
>> 
>> With Regards,
>> 
>> Glen Covert
>> -
>> Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
>> Göschlgasse 12/19
>> A1030 Vienna
>> Austria
>> glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
>> www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com
>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject 
>> of  
>>  Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
>>  in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not 
>> necessarily
>>  the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
>>  or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has 
>>  an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a  
>>  searchable archive of all messages posted to this list.   Beginning in 2021,
>> archived messages can be found at:
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu
>> 
>>  

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Re: [czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Benjamin Grilj]

Sehr geehrte Frau Bartz,
werter Herr Covert,

Haben Sie schon die Seite des jüdischen Museums Meran durchsucht? Frau Mayr, 
Herr Innerhofer und sein Team leisten großartige Arbeit zur jüdischen 
Geschichte Südtirols (und weit darüber hinaus)

http://www.meranoebraica.it/node/51

Beste Grüße,
Benjamin (Institut für jüdische Geschichte Österreichs)

Short version in Englisch:
for Jewish History of Southern Tyrol the Team Mayr/Innerhofer did amazing work 
and collected all in databases cf Link.
Best, b

send by my iPhone

> Am 25.07.2022 um 14:00 schrieb Glen W. Covert 
> :
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I'm writing on behalf of a client of mine, Ms. Bartz, who's cc'd on this 
> message. Her mother tongue is German, so she's asked me to assist her with 
> the language barrier.
> 
> Her question: Does anyone know if the remains of Jakob Brunstein (1836, 
> Czerowitz - 1916, Vienna) were transferred from the Jewish Cemetery at 
> Vienna's Central Cemetery to the cemetery at Radautz after World War One?
> 
> When he died in 1916, Jakob was buried in the Jewish Cemetery, but in his 
> will and last testament, he specifically requested for his remains to be 
> transported to Radautz for reburial after the end of the war (whenever that 
> would be). We have already reached out to the Jewish Cemetery's 
> administration as well as the administrator of the cemetery at Radautz, but 
> their responses or lack there of leave the question unanswered. A multi-year 
> attempt to gain access to the old cemetery in Radautz was effectively denied.
> 
> With Regards,
> 
> Glen Covert
> -
> Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
> Göschlgasse 12/19
> A1030 Vienna
> Austria
> glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
> www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of 
>  
>  Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
>  in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not 
> necessarily
>  the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
>  or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has 
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> archived messages can be found at:
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> 
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> 
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> 
>  

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Re:[czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Yossi Yagur]

Dear Mr. Covert

There is no trace of Jakob BRUNSTEIN in the Radautz cemetery. 

This was verified using the deaths register (1857 - 1929), the headstones
images repository (partial), burials index (partial), and burial maps.

The only possibility of him being buried in the Jewish cemetery of Radautz
is if his remains were transferred to Radautz after 1929, and no surname was
indicated on the headstone, neither in Hebrew nor in German. The chances for
this are very low. In any case, name of his father, and exact death date
will help finding this out.

Good luck

Yossi Yagur

Israel



-- 
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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[czernowitz-l] Location of the remains of Jakob Brunstein (+1916, Vienna)

[Glen W. Covert]

Dear All,

I'm writing on behalf of a client of mine, Ms. Bartz, who's cc'd on this
message. Her mother tongue is German, so she's asked me to assist her with
the language barrier.

Her question: Does anyone know if the remains of Jakob Brunstein (1836,
Czerowitz - 1916, Vienna) were transferred from the Jewish Cemetery at
Vienna's Central Cemetery to the cemetery at Radautz after World War One?

When he died in 1916, Jakob was buried in the Jewish Cemetery, but in his
will and last testament, he specifically requested for his remains to be
transported to Radautz for reburial after the end of the war (whenever that
would be). We have already reached out to the Jewish
Cemetery's administration as well as the administrator of the cemetery at
Radautz, but their responses or lack there of leave the question
unanswered. A multi-year attempt to gain access to the old cemetery in
Radautz was effectively denied.

With Regards,

Glen Covert
-
Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
Göschlgasse 12/19
A1030 Vienna
Austria
glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com

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[czernowitz-l] IDing a person in an old photograph

[Glen W. Covert]

Dear All,

I'm writing on behalf of a client of mine, Ms. Bartz, who's cc'd on this
message. Her mother tongue is German, so she's asked me to assist her with
the language barrier.

Her question: Is the person in the attached photo Dr. Leo Brunstein (ca.
1841, Czernowitz - 1912, Toblach, Bozen, Italy)? He was a lawyer and mayor
of Radautz.

With Regards,

Glen Covert
-
Glen W. Covert Professional Genealogist
Göschlgasse 12/19
A1030 Vienna
Austria
glenwcovert.genealog...@gmail.com
www.glenwcovertgenealogist.com

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Re: [czernowitz-l] Czernowitz Marriages

[Berti Glaubach]

It has nothing to do with WWI. Many years before Jewish religious marriages
were also legitimized, at their own request to civilian ones and this forf
various practical reasons.
Mostly legitimizing the parenthood of the father.of their children.

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 4:43 AM Benjamin Grilj 
wrote:

> Dear Les,
> official marriage was done by official clergy - for Jewish marriages this
> means all rabbis from communities wich were member of the „Israelitische
> Kultusgemeinde“ (IKG -Jewish Community Organization). The big synagogues
> like the old, or the temple were members, but many small, especially
> chassidic were not. But they were not registered in the Matrikenbüchern
> (official register). So if you have a marriage record, it is official!
> Best, Benjamin (Institute for Jewish History in Austria)
>
> send by my iPhone
>
> Am 24.07.2022 um 16:37 schrieb lhg...@aol.com:
>
>  I found a marriage record for my great grandparents in Czernowitz from
> 1918. This was just after the war was over. My great grandfather Meschulim
> Fuhrman was 63 years old then and this would have to be some sort of
> official remarriage. My grandmother was already 30 years old at this point.
> I know that the Austrian authorities did not recognize marriages performed
> by rabbis.
> Was this a common practice to legitimize marriages after the war ?
> Thanks for any help
>
> Les Gluck
>
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
> 
> --
> --
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
> of
>  Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions
> expressed
>  in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not
> necessarily
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>  searchable archive of all messages posted to this list.   Beginning in
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>
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>
> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions
> .
>
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> --
>
>
>
> --
> --
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
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> expressed
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*Wo Es war, soll Ich sein.*

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 Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
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