Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Coding Dave]

Hi,

I strongly support kneops with his Idea - its similar to an Idea I had in
mind for a longer time:

In reality the options darktable offers make it a nice tool for experts and
a horrible tool for beginners. For people that did not start with an easy
to use program like LR it is even harder because the learning curve is so
high.

A power user would probably need all the options of each darktable module
whereas an beginner needs only the most fundamental stuff. I see a
continuum here with the expert on one side and the beginner on the other.
However, darktable has so many modules, options, effects, workflows, and a
variety of combinations that the learning curve is quite hard for
beginners. And remember the pareto principle. You could say that with 20%
of darktable you can already get 80% of the results and for the last 20%
you would require to use 80% more - you know what I'm getting at.

Lets be honest, neither you always need all the sliders nor is the
useability from darktable extraordinary well:
Sometimes it would be better if you only have the minimum necessary. It
would be nice to collect these and place them all in one common place. Im
not talking about reducing darktable and removing possibilities. No way -
darktable lives from its feature rich implementation although feature-rich
is like contradictionary to ease-of-use and useability.
The only thing I suggest is to extract (link, not copy) the most important
sliders from other modules into one meta module that lists them. This meta
module would be a feature wise abstraction by only offering the most
important feature of a module. This would be very very helpful for
beginners and quick edits. Of course some poweruser would be required to
suggest the list of sliders that is to be shown there by default. In a
second step adding/removing sliders in the meta-module similar to the
favourite menu would make the program even more flexible and user-friendly.

When we look at the modules kneops has extracted his favorite meta-module
we can see that many options are like the critical features, some are
compensation/adjustment values, and some are expert settings anyhow (like
the blending - how often do you deal with that? If you work with 40 modules
I bet you are not using 40 blend options as well):
= levels
- mode
- *UI diagram*
- auto, pick black, pick medium gray, pick white
- blend
= exposure
- mode
- black
- *exposure*
- clipping threshold
- blend
= white balance
- *tint*
- *temperature*
- red
- green
- blue
- preset
- finetune
= contrast brightness saturation
- *contrast*
- *brightness*
- *saturation*
- blend
= shadows and highlights
- *shadows*
- *highlights*
- white point adjustment
- soften with
- radius
- compress
- shadows color adjustment
- highlights color adjustment
- blend
= crop and rotate
- flip
- *angle* (rotate)
- keystone
- automatic cropping
- aspects
- guides
= sharpen
- radius
- *amount* (sharpen)
- threshold
- blend
= no idea where "detail" comes from

Here we have ~40 lines of options/sliders, only 11 I would rate are the
core features, we have a selection in one module that comes from 8
different modules from different module columns, and 5 options are "blend"
(how often do you need that? I love that but honestly I use the modules
mostly without blend).

Usually these feature listed above are spread over several modules and you
have to search for them before you find them. The search alone across
several module columns is time intensive. Having the modules expanded is
wasting space, opening and closing them manually is time consuming again.

Imagine your editing procedure to start with the quick-adjustments on the
meta-menu. Imagine you have many of your most important features available
(linked) there and are quickly done with a rough edit. Imagine you realize
you need more options like for example the compress slider of the shadows
and highlights. Imagine you are opening the module and you see the sliders
therein have the same values as they are on the meta module. Wouldn't that
simplify your workflow and speeding you up without stopping you at any
point?

For sure I am missing many very important features you are using regularly.
I just try to share my vision. Imagine you can add your features easily and
are able to customize your own copy of darktable to your linkings.

Kind regards
Dave

Am Di., 10. Juli 2018 um 13:01 Uhr schrieb kneops :

> I already did :) You've seen the screenshot I put in my first mail?
>
>
>
>
> Op 10-07-18 om 12:45 schreef Anders Lund:
> > Hi,
> >
> > You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)
> >
> > Kindly,
> > Anders
> >
> > tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:
> >> After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
> >> that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
> >> this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
> >> quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot 

Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[J. Paul Bissonnette]

thanks for the Tutorials.
Paul


On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:39:42 +1000
Bruce Williams  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've been using darktable for a couple of years now, and have decided
> that it's time to start producing a series of videos for youtube to
> assist new users to get up to speed on how darktable works.
> As I mention in the first episode, I don't claim to be an expert in
> dt. Just a keen user.
> For anyone who may be interested, the playlist is here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRPvm04Uj0=PLlYWvzmJQTrRq7JrYdD7k3-8-v-uHnhK_
> If anyone notices a glaring error in anything I've said in a published
> video, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to offer a
> correction in a later video, should that be necessary.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Williams
> --
> 
> audio2u.com
> brucewilliamsphotography.com
> shuttersincpodcast.com
> sinelanguagepodcast.com
> 
> e-mail  | Twitter  |
> LinkedIn  |
> Facebook  | Soundcloud
>  | Quora
> 
> --
> 
> 
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

I already did :) You've seen the screenshot I put in my first mail?




Op 10-07-18 om 12:45 schreef Anders Lund:

Hi,

You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)

Kindly,
Anders

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:

After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot press images
and have to deliver quick (like I have to do sometimes).

At this moment these are among my favorite tools:



But now I have to open sharpness to sharpen, then open contrast to add
contrast, then open white balace for temperature, than back to contast
to add saturation etc.

Why not add a Quick Tab with only sliders like this.



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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Anders Lund]

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 11.18.26 CEST skrev Ben Oliver:
> On 18-07-10 11:11:49, Anders Lund wrote:
> >Hi Bruce,
> >
> >Some of the issues you point out should actually be considered  bugs, IMHO.
> >Consider reporting them as such. I think of the misbehavior of ALT + 1, and
> >the import options problem.
> >
> >Kindly,
> >Anders
> 
> Yeah I don't know if it's a 'bug' or not but I do feel like perhaps the
> zoom should home in on the selected photo rather than the one that
> happens to be on the top left.
> 
> If no photo is selected it could fall back to the current behaviour.

The general behavior in dt is that if a photo is selected, og the cursor is 
above it, that photo is used for actions involving a single one. That is why I 
consider the ALT + 1 behavior buggy :)

Kindly,
Anders




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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Anders Lund]

Hi,

You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)

Kindly,
Anders

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:
> After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
> that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
> this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
> quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot press images
> and have to deliver quick (like I have to do sometimes).
> 
> At this moment these are among my favorite tools:
> 
> 
> 
> But now I have to open sharpness to sharpen, then open contrast to add
> contrast, then open white balace for temperature, than back to contast
> to add saturation etc.
> 
> Why not add a Quick Tab with only sliders like this.
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-10 11:11:49, Anders Lund wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Some of the issues you point out should actually be considered  bugs, IMHO.
Consider reporting them as such. I think of the misbehavior of ALT + 1, and
the import options problem.

Kindly,
Anders


Yeah I don't know if it's a 'bug' or not but I do feel like perhaps the 
zoom should home in on the selected photo rather than the one that 
happens to be on the top left.


If no photo is selected it could fall back to the current behaviour.


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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Anders Lund]

Hi Bruce,

Some of the issues you point out should actually be considered  bugs, IMHO. 
Consider reporting them as such. I think of the misbehavior of ALT + 1, and 
the import options problem.

Kindly,
Anders

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 08.39.42 CEST skrev Bruce Williams:
> Hi all,
> I've been using darktable for a couple of years now, and have decided that
> it's time to start producing a series of videos for youtube to assist new
> users to get up to speed on how darktable works.
> As I mention in the first episode, I don't claim to be an expert in dt.
> Just a keen user.
> For anyone who may be interested, the playlist is here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRPvm04Uj0=PLlYWvzmJQTrRq7JrYdD7k3-8-v
> -uHnhK_ If anyone notices a glaring error in anything I've said in a
> published video, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to offer a
> correction in a later video, should that be necessary.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Williams
> --
> 
> audio2u.com
> brucewilliamsphotography.com
> shuttersincpodcast.com
> sinelanguagepodcast.com
> 
> e-mail  | Twitter  |
> LinkedIn  | Facebook
>  | Soundcloud
>  | Quora
> 
> --
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

Yes, that is an option, but it would not give you all options in one 
view. You have to scroll a lot and within a module with lots of sliders 
find the one you need. One compact 'Easy tab' would be much nicer imho, 
and than leave all the other modules for the Pros and those that want to 
spend more time on an image to make it perfect.




Op 10-07-18 om 11:05 schreef Ben Oliver:

On 18-07-10 10:51:57, kneops wrote:
After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I 
replied that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really 
necessary, this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice 
users and for quick edits, especially handy for photographers who 
shoot press images and have to deliver quick (like I have to do 
sometimes).


Not quite what you are asking for but it could help: in preferences -> 
GUI options you can set 'expand a single darkroom module at a time' to 
off.  That way all your sliders in favourites will show up at the same 
time.


Thanks Bruce for putting it in the video!



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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-10 10:51:57, kneops wrote:
After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I 
replied that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really 
necessary, this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice 
users and for quick edits, especially handy for photographers who 
shoot press images and have to deliver quick (like I have to do 
sometimes).


Not quite what you are asking for but it could help: in preferences -> 
GUI options you can set 'expand a single darkroom module at a time' to 
off.  That way all your sliders in favourites will show up at the same 
time.


Thanks Bruce for putting it in the video!


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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[kneops]

臘♂Thanks Bruce! 



Op 10-07-18 om 10:02 schreef Ben Oliver:

On 18-07-10 09:55:31, kneops wrote:

Thanks Ben!


Not me! Bruce!




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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-10 09:55:31, kneops wrote:

Thanks Ben!


Not me! Bruce!


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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[kneops]

Excellent initiative! We can never have enough of these tutorials, 
because I have tried to make the move to DT many times before, and now, 
after some years and 4 or 5 serious attempts to like and use it, it is 
the raw processor I now use every day. But it took my about, well, 4 or 
5 long long trials. Although it is modelled after LR, the UI still give 
me the creeps. It is too complicated, too bloated, and I always have to 
find the right tiny button for what I need to do. So until someone makes 
an attempt to completely change the UI, we can never have enough 
tutorials! :)


Thanks Ben!



Op 10-07-18 om 09:42 schreef Ben Oliver:

On 18-07-10 16:39:42, Bruce Williams wrote:

Hi all,
I've been using darktable for a couple of years now, and have decided 
that
it's time to start producing a series of videos for youtube to assist 
new

users to get up to speed on how darktable works.
As I mention in the first episode, I don't claim to be an expert in dt.
Just a keen user.
For anyone who may be interested, the playlist is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRPvm04Uj0=PLlYWvzmJQTrRq7JrYdD7k3-8-v-uHnhK_ 


If anyone notices a glaring error in anything I've said in a published
video, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to offer a
correction in a later video, should that be necessary.
Cheers,
Bruce Williams


This is great. I have been using darktable for a while now but this 
has made me realise it's about time I RTFM...


Looking forward to the next one!



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Re: [darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-10 16:39:42, Bruce Williams wrote:

Hi all,
I've been using darktable for a couple of years now, and have decided that
it's time to start producing a series of videos for youtube to assist new
users to get up to speed on how darktable works.
As I mention in the first episode, I don't claim to be an expert in dt.
Just a keen user.
For anyone who may be interested, the playlist is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRPvm04Uj0=PLlYWvzmJQTrRq7JrYdD7k3-8-v-uHnhK_
If anyone notices a glaring error in anything I've said in a published
video, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to offer a
correction in a later video, should that be necessary.
Cheers,
Bruce Williams


This is great. I have been using darktable for a while now but this has 
made me realise it's about time I RTFM...


Looking forward to the next one!


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

[darktable-user] Youtube tutorials

[Bruce Williams]

Hi all,
I've been using darktable for a couple of years now, and have decided that
it's time to start producing a series of videos for youtube to assist new
users to get up to speed on how darktable works.
As I mention in the first episode, I don't claim to be an expert in dt.
Just a keen user.
For anyone who may be interested, the playlist is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRPvm04Uj0=PLlYWvzmJQTrRq7JrYdD7k3-8-v-uHnhK_
If anyone notices a glaring error in anything I've said in a published
video, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to offer a
correction in a later video, should that be necessary.
Cheers,
Bruce Williams
--

audio2u.com
brucewilliamsphotography.com
shuttersincpodcast.com
sinelanguagepodcast.com

e-mail  | Twitter  |
LinkedIn  | Facebook
 | Soundcloud
 | Quora

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