Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
* Frank [06-02-20 09:33]: > I can confirm the "disappearing" adjustments on MacOS. I'm running a very > modern machine on Catalina and version 3.0.2 > > I notice at times that when I use filmic, color balance and local contrast, > things become unstable. I sometimes see the multiple instances of modules > mentioned, even though I absolutely have not duplicated the instance, and > if I try to go back one step and compress, the "new" instance will not go > away. > > More disturbing is that when the darkroom module gets in this > unstable mode, if I click farther down on the history stack to see where I > was before adjustments, boom, all adjustments disappear without clicking > compress history OR making any other adjustments. > > I haven't been able to figure out how to force this to happen, so I also > haven't filed a bug report or captured a screencast. I know some of these > modules are under heavy work so I'm just hoping that it is something that > will work it's way out through bug fixes If you want to make sure the developers see this problem, https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
I can confirm the "disappearing" adjustments on MacOS. I'm running a very modern machine on Catalina and version 3.0.2 I notice at times that when I use filmic, color balance and local contrast, things become unstable. I sometimes see the multiple instances of modules mentioned, even though I absolutely have not duplicated the instance, and if I try to go back one step and compress, the "new" instance will not go away. More disturbing is that when the darkroom module gets in this unstable mode, if I click farther down on the history stack to see where I was before adjustments, boom, all adjustments disappear without clicking compress history OR making any other adjustments. I haven't been able to figure out how to force this to happen, so I also haven't filed a bug report or captured a screencast. I know some of these modules are under heavy work so I'm just hoping that it is something that will work it's way out through bug fixes darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
I have never made a screencast, & my computer is 10 years old. If the problem persists i will endeavour to look into this. I can always do a private video upload to Youtube. Thanks for taking the issue seriously none the less. I'm not sure i can do much more at this point beyond flagging that i believe there is an issue, & to ask developers to be on the lookout for it. It seems to concern occasional duplicate addition of activated modules to the history stack (& possible cumulative erratic behaviour from there) Obviously if no one else reports this behaviour, i'll simply hope any evidence of it disappears with the next release. Or it gets so bad that others also experience it. Being aware of the issue as i use it has at least made the software useable to me. Although I am an inexperienced user, i didn't have these issues prior to utilising Filmic RGB & the new 'recommended' workflow, which i did in 2.xx versions. Perhaps erratic selections & behaviour resulting from 'user uncertainty' is required however to make this 'border case' apparent. I'll continue to post if the issue continues & i am able to ascertain / reproduce with further details. On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 8:31 AM wrote: > If you can reproduce this, could you try to make a screencast? Of > course, you would need to have a server to upload to in order to share > this. > > Cheers > Stefan > > > -- > https://stefan-klinger.de o/X > I prefer receiving plain text messages, not exceeding 32kB./\/ > \ > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
If you can reproduce this, could you try to make a screencast? Of course, you would need to have a server to upload to in order to share this. Cheers Stefan -- https://stefan-klinger.de o/X I prefer receiving plain text messages, not exceeding 32kB./\/ \ darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
Ok, I have had a bit more success proceeding VERY cautiously this afternoon. Obviously as I get into editing, i forget to look at the History stack with Every Step i take, however I can definitely say I saw one instance of switching Filmic RGB on & 2 references immediately appearing in the history (I consolidated immediately to eliminate) & another instance where Colour Balance was behaving weirdly (excessive effect), so I looked at the history & 2 consecutive instances were there also, which i immediately consolidated, & that clarified the edit. I can't say with 100% certainty however that those 2 'history instances' were immediately instantiated on activating the module. So I do think there is some sort of issue, & the best i can narrow it down to is that, whatever the condition of its appearance, it involves the addition of activated modules to the history stack, & is occasional. Other weird behavoiur i have witnessed is probably cumulative from the instantiation in history error, resulting in logic errors with True / False toggle status or similar ? Perhaps whatever 'tests' are run on ensuring robustness on additions to the history stack on activation could at least be run to confirm desired behaviour? Or perhaps something specific to the OSX build has inadvertently regressed? (sounds like i know what i'm talking about, not really, but i've done a little bit of hobby coding in Python mainly. Engineering dropout ...) Whatever is happening, it certainly isn't screaming 'robust' at me ... whatever failings i may have as a user ... On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:53 PM Remco Viëtor wrote: > On mardi 26 mai 2020 10:01:19 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote: > > Thanks Remco. > > > > I appreciate the points you are making, however i think there is more to > > the issue than this. > > > > I didn't experience these issues when i toyed with Darktable last year in > > V2, not did i experience the issues when i initially installed V3 & > played > > with the more 'familiar' editing strategy of using Tone Curve, Colour > Zones > > etc, & flicking back & forward in the history to assess the progress of > my > > edits. After all, what else would the history be designed to do? > > > > I'll certainly use 'snapshots' going forward, but i think there is an > issue > > here. Going 'back' in the history for example occasionally drops > everything > > subsequent / above in the stack simply by making the selection, without > > subsequent editing. > > > > Similarly, occasionally the effect of Filmic RGB seems to 'duplicate' or > > compound spontaneously on the image for no reason, & this happens > > concurrent with multiple instances appearing in the history. > > > > Often multiple instances of Filmic RGB spontaneously appear in the > history > > with no logical correlation to any history compression action, or > > associated module usage. > > > > I can only describe the overall effect as 'chaotic', whereas the scenario > > you describe is logical & predictable. > > > > So I do feel like there is a bona-fide issue here. I'll continue to play > > with it, & report additional symptoms or behaviour i see as problematic, > > but there appears to be no effective diagnosis tool i can export or > provide > > by way of 'history' that leads to the problem, as the 'history' itself > > appears to be either part of the problem, or disconnected from the > reality > > of the user intention or command sequence at some stage. > > > > Something else I noticed: sometimes when I start editing basecurve and > sharpen > are auto-applied, sometimes they aren't (there seems to be a pattern, but > I > haven't quite nailed it down). In such cases, using filmicRGB becomes > "strange". And I did specirfically set dt *not* to auto-apply the > basecurve. > And I also use version 3.0.2. > > Remco > > > > > > > darktable user mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
On mardi 26 mai 2020 10:01:19 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote: > Thanks Remco. > > I appreciate the points you are making, however i think there is more to > the issue than this. > > I didn't experience these issues when i toyed with Darktable last year in > V2, not did i experience the issues when i initially installed V3 & played > with the more 'familiar' editing strategy of using Tone Curve, Colour Zones > etc, & flicking back & forward in the history to assess the progress of my > edits. After all, what else would the history be designed to do? > > I'll certainly use 'snapshots' going forward, but i think there is an issue > here. Going 'back' in the history for example occasionally drops everything > subsequent / above in the stack simply by making the selection, without > subsequent editing. > > Similarly, occasionally the effect of Filmic RGB seems to 'duplicate' or > compound spontaneously on the image for no reason, & this happens > concurrent with multiple instances appearing in the history. > > Often multiple instances of Filmic RGB spontaneously appear in the history > with no logical correlation to any history compression action, or > associated module usage. > > I can only describe the overall effect as 'chaotic', whereas the scenario > you describe is logical & predictable. > > So I do feel like there is a bona-fide issue here. I'll continue to play > with it, & report additional symptoms or behaviour i see as problematic, > but there appears to be no effective diagnosis tool i can export or provide > by way of 'history' that leads to the problem, as the 'history' itself > appears to be either part of the problem, or disconnected from the reality > of the user intention or command sequence at some stage. > Something else I noticed: sometimes when I start editing basecurve and sharpen are auto-applied, sometimes they aren't (there seems to be a pattern, but I haven't quite nailed it down). In such cases, using filmicRGB becomes "strange". And I did specirfically set dt *not* to auto-apply the basecurve. And I also use version 3.0.2. Remco darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
Thanks Remco. I appreciate the points you are making, however i think there is more to the issue than this. I didn't experience these issues when i toyed with Darktable last year in V2, not did i experience the issues when i initially installed V3 & played with the more 'familiar' editing strategy of using Tone Curve, Colour Zones etc, & flicking back & forward in the history to assess the progress of my edits. After all, what else would the history be designed to do? I'll certainly use 'snapshots' going forward, but i think there is an issue here. Going 'back' in the history for example occasionally drops everything subsequent / above in the stack simply by making the selection, without subsequent editing. Similarly, occasionally the effect of Filmic RGB seems to 'duplicate' or compound spontaneously on the image for no reason, & this happens concurrent with multiple instances appearing in the history. Often multiple instances of Filmic RGB spontaneously appear in the history with no logical correlation to any history compression action, or associated module usage. I can only describe the overall effect as 'chaotic', whereas the scenario you describe is logical & predictable. So I do feel like there is a bona-fide issue here. I'll continue to play with it, & report additional symptoms or behaviour i see as problematic, but there appears to be no effective diagnosis tool i can export or provide by way of 'history' that leads to the problem, as the 'history' itself appears to be either part of the problem, or disconnected from the reality of the user intention or command sequence at some stage. Just to clarify, I am using 3.0.2 . Obviously if it's 'just me', well, that's makes things more difficult. But the situation is dire enough that i couldn't believe i was unable to find a single existing reference to or report of the issue. Maybe i will try a complete uninstall & reinstall & see if that does anything ... that won't be for sometime however, as i am at +10 GMT or so, so i'll be leaving this for today at least. Thanks for your remarks however once again. I'll read through them in detail once more before i next use Darktable to make sure i am 100% clear in my objectives, usage, & understanding. On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 5:04 PM Remco Viëtor wrote: > On mardi 26 mai 2020 08:49:11 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote: > > Hi > > > > I am a new user to Darktable 3. I played a little bit with Darktable 2.xx > > last year, but i'm hoping to now start diving a little deeper in earnest, > > at least as far as my demands as an occasional hobby & travel > photographer > > demand it. > > > > I've been doing a bit of research & am trying to follow the 'now & future > > recommended' Tone Equaliser, Filmic RGB / 'linear' type editing scenario > as > > described in various videos & websites that i have found. > > > > I am getting some very erratic behaviour with respect to history. So > > erratic that its difficult to reduce to a cause with any certainty. > > > > What i have been able to observe is that it seems to be primarily > concerned > > with use of the Filmic RGB module. > > > > specifically, selecting a previous place in the history stack causes > > behaviours such as: > > > > * new random occurrences of the Filmic RGB module in the history > (sometimes > > with what looks to be cumulative / duplicating processing effect) &/or > > > > * sudden truncation of the history stack to the point of (what was > planned > > to be) a 'temporary' reversion: edits & modules simply disappear from the > > history above the point of reversion, deactivate, & revert to their > default > > settings. > > > > As i am new to Darktable (& v.3) specifically, i thought i would raise > here > > in the first instance rather than jump in a 'report' a bug. But, bug or > > not, this is basically rendering this unusable for me at present. > > > > I'm on an old OSX machine basically frozen at 10.11.6. Longer term, i > hope > > to migrate to a dedicated Linux machine for photography (& video) but at > > the moment resource & space restrictions see me using what is effectively > > my 'music' computer. > > > > I'd appreciate any advice or help, or hopefully someone can reproduce > this > > or advise of similar so a solution can be found with next update or > release. > > > > Finally, is there a way to either get a digest of this forum, or interact > > with it in an 'online only' mode (like a Nabble group for example ...) > so i > > can keep a lot of unnecessary traffic out of my inbox? > > > > Appreciate your time & help, & i hope a successful future with Darktable > is > > ahead of me once i can get this issue sorted. > > Perhaps it's mostly a misunderstanding about the way the history stack > works: > It shows the order in which modules were actived or had their parameters > changed. > > The order in which modules are shown there has *no* relation with the > order > in which modules are applied. Only the latest (closest to the top) version >
Re: [darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
On mardi 26 mai 2020 08:49:11 CEST Tim Mortimer wrote: > Hi > > I am a new user to Darktable 3. I played a little bit with Darktable 2.xx > last year, but i'm hoping to now start diving a little deeper in earnest, > at least as far as my demands as an occasional hobby & travel photographer > demand it. > > I've been doing a bit of research & am trying to follow the 'now & future > recommended' Tone Equaliser, Filmic RGB / 'linear' type editing scenario as > described in various videos & websites that i have found. > > I am getting some very erratic behaviour with respect to history. So > erratic that its difficult to reduce to a cause with any certainty. > > What i have been able to observe is that it seems to be primarily concerned > with use of the Filmic RGB module. > > specifically, selecting a previous place in the history stack causes > behaviours such as: > > * new random occurrences of the Filmic RGB module in the history (sometimes > with what looks to be cumulative / duplicating processing effect) &/or > > * sudden truncation of the history stack to the point of (what was planned > to be) a 'temporary' reversion: edits & modules simply disappear from the > history above the point of reversion, deactivate, & revert to their default > settings. > > As i am new to Darktable (& v.3) specifically, i thought i would raise here > in the first instance rather than jump in a 'report' a bug. But, bug or > not, this is basically rendering this unusable for me at present. > > I'm on an old OSX machine basically frozen at 10.11.6. Longer term, i hope > to migrate to a dedicated Linux machine for photography (& video) but at > the moment resource & space restrictions see me using what is effectively > my 'music' computer. > > I'd appreciate any advice or help, or hopefully someone can reproduce this > or advise of similar so a solution can be found with next update or release. > > Finally, is there a way to either get a digest of this forum, or interact > with it in an 'online only' mode (like a Nabble group for example ...) so i > can keep a lot of unnecessary traffic out of my inbox? > > Appreciate your time & help, & i hope a successful future with Darktable is > ahead of me once i can get this issue sorted. Perhaps it's mostly a misunderstanding about the way the history stack works: It shows the order in which modules were actived or had their parameters changed. The order in which modules are shown there has *no* relation with the order in which modules are applied. Only the latest (closest to the top) version of each module will be used to generate the final image (duplicates you created explicitly will have a unique name, and count as a separate module) If you add a module, then add a second one, when you then change the parameters of the first, you will see an extra copy of the first module in the history stack. E.g. alternating between "exposition" and "filmic" will get you a whole stack of "filmic" and "exposition" in the history stack, which is perfectly normal. Using the "compress history stack" button will remove all the superseded items, and only keep the last added version. Also, if you select a module in the history stack, and then do an edit, everything above the selected line will be discarded, and then the new line will be added. If you want to keep a snapshot to compare two stages in your edit, can use the "snapshots" item just above the history stack: select the line whare you want to take a snapshot, and click on the "take snapshot" button. Then make sure you select the top line in the history stack again... You'll see a new line appear under "snapshots" with the name and number of the line selected when you took the snapshot. Click on that one, and you'll see a split view with half showing the current edit, other half showing the snapshot state. A second click on the selected shapshot gets you back to the "normal" view. Tl;dr: for simple edits, you can mostly ignore the history stack, apart from an occasional compression if it gets too long. I hope this clarifies the history stack functioning a bit, Remco. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
[darktable-user] history / Filmic RGB random reversions & resets
Hi I am a new user to Darktable 3. I played a little bit with Darktable 2.xx last year, but i'm hoping to now start diving a little deeper in earnest, at least as far as my demands as an occasional hobby & travel photographer demand it. I've been doing a bit of research & am trying to follow the 'now & future recommended' Tone Equaliser, Filmic RGB / 'linear' type editing scenario as described in various videos & websites that i have found. I am getting some very erratic behaviour with respect to history. So erratic that its difficult to reduce to a cause with any certainty. What i have been able to observe is that it seems to be primarily concerned with use of the Filmic RGB module. specifically, selecting a previous place in the history stack causes behaviours such as: * new random occurrences of the Filmic RGB module in the history (sometimes with what looks to be cumulative / duplicating processing effect) &/or * sudden truncation of the history stack to the point of (what was planned to be) a 'temporary' reversion: edits & modules simply disappear from the history above the point of reversion, deactivate, & revert to their default settings. As i am new to Darktable (& v.3) specifically, i thought i would raise here in the first instance rather than jump in a 'report' a bug. But, bug or not, this is basically rendering this unusable for me at present. I'm on an old OSX machine basically frozen at 10.11.6. Longer term, i hope to migrate to a dedicated Linux machine for photography (& video) but at the moment resource & space restrictions see me using what is effectively my 'music' computer. I'd appreciate any advice or help, or hopefully someone can reproduce this or advise of similar so a solution can be found with next update or release. Finally, is there a way to either get a digest of this forum, or interact with it in an 'online only' mode (like a Nabble group for example ...) so i can keep a lot of unnecessary traffic out of my inbox? Appreciate your time & help, & i hope a successful future with Darktable is ahead of me once i can get this issue sorted. darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
