Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[HaJo Schatz]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Jason Verlen  wrote:

>
> Want to thank everyone for pitching in.  I think it might be a good
> project for someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called
> “Print-Epson” which would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a
> manner similar to Lightroom.
>

I'm by no means a printer-module or CUPS expert, but this approach sounds
wrong. Instead the generic printer-module should be modified to probe
printer-specific options from CUPS and then create and populate drop-downs
based on that data. CUPS provides this information, it's up to the printing
application to make use of it. See e.g. by trying "lpoptions -l" in your
terminal. Depending on what printer you have installed in CUPS, you should
see a different list of options there; including EPSON-specific. Choosing
the correct options that way might even pop-up the EPSON dialog, who
knows...

But anyway, I guess the core darktable developers have no strong interest
in this and it's easy enough to print through other applications which
implement dedicated interfaces...


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

All

Roman thank you for the suggestion on trying png format.  I am not familiar 
with this format but from what I am reading on the web it is lossless like 
tiff.  I just tried it at 16 bit and the Epson Print Layout does in fact read 
it.  This is great!

Kovacs in answer to your question I did the tiff export at 16 bit.  You can’t 
turn off compression…I can’t remember which of the two i used (one has floating 
point the other doesn’t).  

Want to thank everyone for pitching in.  I think it might be a good project for 
someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called “Print-Epson” which 
would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a manner similar to 
Lightroom.

Jason


On Mar 16, 2017, at 3:17 AM, KOVÁCS István  wrote:

> Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
> Kofa
> 
> 
> > The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may 
> > have a bug in its tiff export.
> 



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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

Not Darktable specific, but useful info

With special thanks to David Vincent-Jones I think I have figured out how
to make printing from Darktable useful on the Mac

The secret is that you need to go into the CUPS server page by pointing
your browser to http://localhost:631

Once there, you can find your printer and under the menu that says
Administration you will find “set default options”
Within these options I found all the various quality and paper type
settings from my driver.
By setting these IN ADVANCE and then printing, results were as I would
expect.

If you try to set the options and get a message about web administration
not enabled,
the error message will give you a command that you simply need to cut and
paste into a terminal window and execute.

Hope this is helpful. I can now get acceptable prints out of DT without
exporting first

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, David Vincent-Jones 
wrote:

> 'Set Default Options' in CUPS brings up 6 tabs of output variables that
> can be preset ... very elaborate .. this may be what you are seeing from
> your sysyem!
>
> On 03/16/2017 10:23 AM, Frank wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Pascal Obry  wrote:
>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> > You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
>> > it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
>> > tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
>> > system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> >  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,
>>
>> How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.
>>
>
> OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
> previously
> got access to a long list of printing variables where individual
> parameters
> could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed
> this...
> Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?
>
>>
>> >  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
>> > not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
>> > system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,
>>
>> What is normal? :)
>>
>
> Haha, fair enough!
>
>>
>> But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
>> adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
>>
>> So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
>> select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.
>>
>
> And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
> This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
> and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac
>
>>
>> Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
>> equivalent, no?
>>
>> > Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.
>>
>> Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
>> prints.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>>
>>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>>
>>   http://www.obry.net
>>
>>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Pascal Obry  wrote:

>
> Frank,
>
> > You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
> > it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
> > tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
> > system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT
>
> Correct.
>
> >  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,
>
> How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.
>

OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
previously
got access to a long list of printing variables where individual parameters
could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed this...
Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?

>
> >  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
> > not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
> > system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,
>
> What is normal? :)
>

Haha, fair enough!

>
> But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
> adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
>
> So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
> select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.
>

And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac

>
> Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
> equivalent, no?
>
> > Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.
>
> Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
> prints.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://www.obry.net
>
>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 16 mars 2017 09:17:47 CET KOVÁCS István wrote:
> Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
> Kofa
> 
> > The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may
> 
> have a bug in its tiff export.
> 
> 
___
_
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
TIFF is a complex format with a lot of 'dialects' and options, so problems with 
importing a TIFF 
generated by another program are rather common. Not necessarily a bug in 
darktable.

But why do you need TIFF in this case? Afaik, PNG does almost everything TIFF 
does. the 
only difference I know of is that PNG is limited to only one layer (TIFF can 
handle multilayer), 
but that shouldn't be relevant if you use the file to print. (and PNG tends to 
give smaller files).

Remco

PS: Darktable (under linux) uses libtiff.so, so that might be the place to drop 
a bug report.






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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[KOVÁCS István]

Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
Kofa


> The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may
have a bug in its tiff export.


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

All

I am using the Epson Print Layout program to do the final printing.  
I export from DT in the highest possible resolution jpg.  
Then I leave DT and go into Epson Print Layout, and print from there.
The Epson program is free and offers control over most things including the 
Epson ABW model.
The GUI is very easy to use.
The only thing I can’t set through it is platen gap and width of the printer.
But it is possible it is widening somewhat through my choice of front feed 
which the interface does support.

I think this approach is a bit clunky as it is several steps vs. just printing 
within the LR program, but it does seem to work just fine.
It is probably a good answer for MAC users.

One note…i tried exporting tiff from DT to get the best resolution, but the 
Epson program wouldn’t read it.  
The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may have 
a bug in its tiff export.

Jason.

On Mar 13, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Jason Verlen  [03-13-17 18:31]:
>> Guys 
>> 
>> Let me explain better.  I'm on a Mac, not Linux.  When I print from 
>> Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom.  These 
>> screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do 
>> advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure 
>> the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and 
>> much more.
>> 
>> Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability.  There 
>> is no way to print properly without it.  Unless I am missing something.
>> 
>> Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like 
>> Lightroom?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jas
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:53 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> * Jason Verlen  [03-12-17 20:58]:
 Darktable Users:
 
 I am new to Darktable.  Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really 
 impressed.  Fantastic program.  And then I had a problem...
 
 I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
 
 I tried to Print an image for the first time.  It seems that Darktable 
 won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to 
 print black and white images.  Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
 
 If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into 
 a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have 
 to stay with LightRoom for now.  My experience with ABW is very positive - 
 black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.
>>> 
>>> iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
>>> cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
>>> printer to put your image to paper.
>>> 
>>> you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
>>> scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
>>> 
>>> googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson.  do
>>> you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
>>> look.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
>>> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
>>> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
>>>   
>>> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo @ http://linuxcounter.net
>>> 
>>> darktable user mailing list
>>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>> 
> 
> 
> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer. 
> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
> control/access your printer.
> 
> darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
> camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
> sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.
> 
> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
> 
> and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!
> 
> ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.
> 
> -- 
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535
> 
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo  @ http://linuxcounter.net
> 
> 

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

It's not free, but the Linux version is awesome : http://www.printfab.net/

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

> Message du 15/03/17 15:04
> De : "Frank" 
> A : darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode
> 
>
I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've waded 
into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how they 
correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find anywhere) I 
find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with. 

>
This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my workflow 
where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this into Apple 
Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it directly from 
Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional storage and also 
creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are out of sync.

>
I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it does 
extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).

>
This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case 
currently.



>  
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to 
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 
>

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Pascal Obry]

Frank,

> You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
> it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
> tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
> system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT

Correct.

>  and when calling the CUPS options in DT,

How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.

>  the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
> not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
> system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal, 

What is normal? :)

But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
adjusting the CUPS options, correct?

So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.

Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
equivalent, no?

> Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.

Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
prints.

Regards,

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think it
would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive tool to
control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This system print
dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT and when calling the
CUPS options in DT, the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0
values which is not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to
the core system print resources and let the print dialog function as
normal, there would be no problem, but I guess this is also not so simple...

Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers. For consumer
printers this information is, I suppose, embedded in the driver software
and is not available to be used independently (I have examined the package
contents and not been able to find any ICC profiles). I have used an ICC
profile from another paper supplier designed for epson printers and this
did allow me to get soft proofing but did not help the printing situation
measurably.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Pascal Obry  wrote:

>
> Hello Frank,
>
> > This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the
> > case currently.
>
> Certainly working for me on GNU/Linux. Now there is something I don't
> understand. When you print from other software on Mac you're using
> CUPS, right? AFAIK CUPS is the default printing queue in Mac, in fact
> CUPS is maintained by Apple if I'm not mistaken.
>
> So, why is dt not working for Mac? The current implementation does a a
> pdf out of the image and send it as-is to CUPS as any other software
> should do, no?
>
> Most importantly I also feel (but I'm not a Mac user so I cannot be
> sure) that the .ICC for the paper that are delivered by the paper maker
> should be usable on Mac, no?
>
> Anyway, if I'm wrong what dt should do to fix this issue?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://www.obry.net
>
>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Frank]

I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've
waded into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how
they correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find
anywhere) I find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with.

This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my
workflow where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this
into Apple Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it
directly from Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional
storage and also creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are
out of sync.

I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it
does extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).

This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case
currently.


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

Hello,

 

I think we all have gotten bad habits because of too much facilities offered by 
some system that is "get all you want with no effort"-oriented.

When going to Linux, I found my Canon 4850 which printed fairly fine on Windows 
produced awful printouts on Linux *with the same software* - this is important 
-.

It was a photo development software, just like DT, but it was totally unable to 
print correctly whatever it sent to my printer, though I had no problems with 
other software as LibreOffice, for instance.

A few googleing later, I learnt that each piece of software is built to deal 
with its capabilities : a print driver to drive a printer, a word processor to 
type text, aso. and a raw converter to deal with photos. Thus, each one makes 
its job at its best (is that really english ?).

And each developper can focus on its goal and doesn't waste resources trying to 
reinvent the wheel.

I solved my problem buying a cheap piece of software that perfectly can drive 
my printer (among many others). It does its job, rather well and efficiently. 
Its name : turboprint.

Maybe is there such a thing for your Mac ? At the time I heard about Mac's for 
the first time (1985), they used to be very good. And very, very, very 
expensive, too.

The second has slightly changed, would the first have, too ?

 

Regards,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

> Message du 14/03/17 19:07
> De : "Jason Verlen" 
> A : "Robert Krawitz" 
> Copie à : "HaJo Schatz" , darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode
> 
> Everyone
> 
> Thanks for all the additional info. 
> 
> It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with 
> understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am. Most 
> probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this 
> out on your own.
> 
> I think this an opportunity for Darktable. Adobe’s pricing policy for 
> Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they 
> are used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very 
> much. This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users. They will 
> most likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run 
> into. I believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that 
> Lightroom integrates with…nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print 
> program…what I am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same 
> integration for Mac users.
> 
> In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing 
> with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky 
> multistep way. The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed 
> settings (even for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use 
> and allows you to save Presets making it very efficient. 
> 
> All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”. 
> What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than 
> Lightroom. It is amazing actually. But the printing issue will stifle many 
> potential users.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jason.
> 
> On Mar 14, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan 
wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
> >>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
> >>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
> >>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
> >>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
> >>> control/access your printer.
> >> 
> >> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
> >> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
> >> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?
> > 
> > It could use IPP or it could use PPD files. Either way, it may be
> > choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about. This could be
> > problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
> > features that aren't represented in profiles.
> > 
> >> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
> >> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
> >> 
> >> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.
> > 
> > Very.
> > 
> >> I'

Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

Everyone

Thanks for all the additional info.  

It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with 
understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am.  Most 
probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this out 
on your own.

I think this an opportunity for Darktable.  Adobe’s pricing policy for 
Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they are 
used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very much. 
 This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users.  They will most 
likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run into.  I 
believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that Lightroom 
integrates with…nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print program…what I 
am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same integration for 
Mac users.

In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing 
with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky multistep 
way.  The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed settings (even 
for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use and allows you to 
save Presets making it very efficient.  

All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”.  
What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than 
Lightroom.  It is amazing actually.  But the printing issue will stifle many 
potential users.

Thanks

Jason.

On Mar 14, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
>>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
>>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
>>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
>>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
>>> control/access your printer.
>> 
>> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
>> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
>> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?
> 
> It could use IPP or it could use PPD files.  Either way, it may be
> choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about.  This could be
> problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
> features that aren't represented in profiles.
> 
>> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
>> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
>> 
>> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
>>> 
>> 
>> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.
> 
> Very.
> 
>> I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
>> That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Krawitz 
> 
> ***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
> Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
> 
> "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> --Eric Crampton
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 


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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:33:05 +0800, HaJo Schatz wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>>
>> darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
>> sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
>> handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
>> darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
>> by your operating system and the software you have installed to
>> control/access your printer.
>
> But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
> me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
> Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

It could use IPP or it could use PPD files.  Either way, it may be
choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about.  This could be
problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
features that aren't represented in profiles.

> I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
> printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
>
> using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
>>
>
> By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

Very.

> I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
> That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:21:02 +0100, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 14. M=E4rz 2017, 15:38:52 CET schrieb Jason Polak:
>> I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
>> not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
>> 
>> All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
>> Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
>> the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
>> possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
>> process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?
>
> I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is 
> that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose. 
> The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of 
> settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that 
> fiddling 
> with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No 
> settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then 
> that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

Not everyone has fully profiled workflows.  If your full workflow
isn't profiled, you may need adjustments to correct for your monitor;
if your printer/driver/paper combo isn't profiled (Gutenprint, for
example, is a volunteer project, and we don't have the resources to
profile printer/driver/paper combinations), you may need significant
adjustments to get useful output.

>> Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
>> help the OP, without the attitude.

-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Dienstag, 14. März 2017, 15:38:52 CET schrieb Jason Polak:
> I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
> not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
> 
> All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
> Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
> the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
> possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
> process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?

I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is 
that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose. 
The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of 
settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that 
fiddling 
with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No 
settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then 
that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

> Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
> help the OP, without the attitude.
> 
> Jason

HTH,
Tobias

[...]

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Polak]

I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is 
not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.


All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work. 
Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's 
the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it 
possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this 
process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?


Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can 
help the OP, without the attitude.


Jason

On 2017-03-14 10:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:


darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.

and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!

ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.



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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Jason Verlen  [03-13-17 18:31]:
> Guys 
> 
> Let me explain better.  I'm on a Mac, not Linux.  When I print from Lightroom 
> it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom.  These screens let 
> me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings 
> (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I 
> am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.
> 
> Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability.  There is 
> no way to print properly without it.  Unless I am missing something.
> 
> Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like 
> Lightroom?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jas
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:53 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> > 
> > * Jason Verlen  [03-12-17 20:58]:
> >> Darktable Users:
> >> 
> >> I am new to Darktable.  Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really 
> >> impressed.  Fantastic program.  And then I had a problem...
> >> 
> >> I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
> >> 
> >> I tried to Print an image for the first time.  It seems that Darktable 
> >> won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to 
> >> print black and white images.  Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
> >> 
> >> If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into 
> >> a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have 
> >> to stay with LightRoom for now.  My experience with ABW is very positive - 
> >> black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.
> > 
> > iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
> > cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
> > printer to put your image to paper.
> > 
> > you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
> > scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
> > 
> > googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson.  do
> > you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
> > look.
> > 
> > -- 
> > (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> > http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> > Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
> >   
> > Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo @ http://linuxcounter.net
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 


darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer.  it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups.  *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer. 
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/...  it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.

and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!

ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
  
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo@ http://linuxcounter.net

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Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Pascal Obry]

Le dimanche 12 mars 2017 à 22:53 -0400, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :
> iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer
> handler, cups, hplip,  and *you* tell the print handler how you
> want the printer to put your image to paper.

Yes, exactly. Except that it only support cups. So you just have to
create a cups queue with the proper parameters.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

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