Re: [Solved] Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[darktable]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:40:39 -0800
"I. Ivanov"  wrote:

>It is good that it works for you (one way or another). I usually
>export @95% and it seems to work well quality vs size. But perhaps
>you have reasons to compress further I didn't try higher
>compressions.

Try webpages with:

https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/

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vyS

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Re: [Solved] Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[I. Ivanov]

It is good that it works for you (one way or another). I usually export 
@95% and it seems to work well quality vs size. But perhaps you have 
reasons to compress further I didn't try higher compressions.


Regards,

B


On 2017-01-18 02:36 PM, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 13:19:35 -0800
"I. Ivanov"  wrote:


No I didn't... but the images were @100%. I just wanted to point out
that the viewer can influence the perception. Based on what I have
seen I believe DT is working as expected. The way how the other
viewers render the image however can vary significantly. But it is
not really a DT issue. Never the less some improvements like small
amount of extra sharpening can be beneficial but it is up to the
user.

Actually, I think that DT is the issue but I have found a work around.

The problem is the combination of the downsizing (900x900) with the
jpeg quality (81%). Then the images become soft. This didn't happen
before 2.2.1 (I never got 2.2.0). Before that, I was using 2.0.7 and
it was fine.

* I do my sharpening as per Ger Siemerink: High Pass with overlay/softlight.
* Export: quality: 100%, size 900x900
* I use mogrify to reduce the quality to 81% and it works (for me).




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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[I. Ivanov]

No I didn't... but the images were @100%. I just wanted to point out 
that the viewer can influence the perception. Based on what I have seen 
I believe DT is working as expected. The way how the other viewers 
render the image however can vary significantly. But it is not really a 
DT issue. Never the less some improvements like small amount of extra 
sharpening can be beneficial but it is up to the user.


Regards,

B


On 2017-01-17 11:37 PM, Coding Dave wrote:
Did you realise eog has smoothing turned on by default when zooming 
in/out (if not @100%)? Please turn smoothing of to evaluate dt quality.


http://askubuntu.com/questions/237575/zoom-in-on-small-photos-without-losing-pixel-crispness/237585#237585

Regards,
D

2017-01-18 5:52 GMT+01:00 I. Ivanov >:


I think part of the effect (in addition to what the others have
found out) is the viewer that you are using.

This is in Geeqie - color matched exported at 900 dpi and seen @ 100%


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek5e3me3haq3dn2/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-33-12.png?dl=0



This is Geeqie - color matched - exported at 100% (no reduction at
all) but when seen in Geeqie - it is quite reduced 1:1.7


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dd7zskx6bh8kkxi/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-33-38.png?dl=0



This is one and the same image - no difference - left is Geeqie -
color matched - 900 dpi and seen @100%, right is EOG (Gnome
Viewer) same image @100%


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1b0zepe85x4sm75/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-38-37.png?dl=0



To me - it looks like both images when seen in Geeqie viewer look
very much the same. On the other hand - Gnome Viewer - it looks
sharper to me (but it is not color matched). I would say - look at
the images @100% as the others mentioned and have them in a
calibrated viewer.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

B


On 2017-01-17 08:36 AM, darkta...@911networks.com
 wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:21:54 -0800
"I. Ivanov" > wrote:

You may want to provide a raw file and xmp so we can test.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7HTmJCO2gG7WDl1NUVxbVQ3aGs/view?usp=sharing





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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[I. Ivanov]

I think part of the effect (in addition to what the others have found 
out) is the viewer that you are using.


This is in Geeqie - color matched exported at 900 dpi and seen @ 100%

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek5e3me3haq3dn2/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-33-12.png?dl=0

This is Geeqie - color matched - exported at 100% (no reduction at all) 
but when seen in Geeqie - it is quite reduced 1:1.7


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dd7zskx6bh8kkxi/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-33-38.png?dl=0

This is one and the same image - no difference - left is Geeqie - color 
matched - 900 dpi and seen @100%, right is EOG (Gnome Viewer) same image 
@100%


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1b0zepe85x4sm75/Screenshot%20from%202017-01-17%2020-38-37.png?dl=0

To me - it looks like both images when seen in Geeqie viewer look very 
much the same. On the other hand - Gnome Viewer - it looks sharper to me 
(but it is not color matched). I would say - look at the images @100% as 
the others mentioned and have them in a calibrated viewer.


Hope this helps,

Regards,

B


On 2017-01-17 08:36 AM, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:21:54 -0800
"I. Ivanov"  wrote:


You may want to provide a raw file and xmp so we can test.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7HTmJCO2gG7WDl1NUVxbVQ3aGs/view?usp=sharing




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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[darktable]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:21:54 -0800
"I. Ivanov"  wrote:

>You may want to provide a raw file and xmp so we can test.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7HTmJCO2gG7WDl1NUVxbVQ3aGs/view?usp=sharing

-- 
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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[darktable]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:23:54 +0100
Remco Viëtor  wrote:

>But what do you do exactly in that extra style you apply on export?

Only frame and watermark

>And what's the exact command you use to mogrify your images?

it was: mogrify -quality "85%" -resize 900x900

but I did some further test. I found that applying a little bit of
sharpening: -unsharp 1.5x1+0.7+0.2 really helps.


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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2017, 08:16:46 CET schrieb Matthieu Moy:

[...]

> You're viewing your images at a zoom level different from 100%, so you're
> not only benchmarking your rescaling tool (dt Vs mogrify), but also your
> image viewer's rescaling.
> 
> Don't do that. If you want to compare the sharpness of images, always view
> them at 100% zoom.

That.

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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[Matthieu Moy]

- Original Message -
> From: darkta...@911networks.com
> To: darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:35:51 AM
> Subject: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

> Hi,
> 
> DT 2.2.1 on arch
> 
> I'm still having problems with the export: 900x900.
> 
> Here are my settings: http://i.imgur.com/QS74VlT.png
> 
> Here is a comparison: http://i.imgur.com/BzbRfbs.png

You're viewing your images at a zoom level different from 100%, so you're not 
only benchmarking your rescaling tool (dt Vs mogrify), but also your image 
viewer's rescaling.

Don't do that. If you want to compare the sharpness of images, always view them 
at 100% zoom.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
https://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 16 janvier 2017 18:35:51 CET darkta...@911networks.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> DT 2.2.1 on arch
> 
> I'm still having problems with the export: 900x900.
> 
> Here are my settings: http://i.imgur.com/QS74VlT.png
> 
But what do you do exactly in that extra style you apply on export?
And what's the exact command you use to mogrify your images?

Fairly standard advice seems to be to apply a little bit of extra sharpening 
after you have reduced the size of an image, to counter the softening effect 
that has (somehting like unsharp mask with radius ~1pixel, intensity to 
taste).

To me it looks like the mogrified version has had that extra sharpening 
applied (almost too much even, there's some suspicion of halo formation at the 
highest contrast edges).

Remco



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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[I. Ivanov]

You may want to provide a raw file and xmp so we can test.

I can't see a huge difference on my images. There may be but the 
resolution is rather small - 900dpi.


In the core options there is "high quality re sampling during export". 
This option would interfere however with "dithering" (if I understand 
correctly - one neutralizes the other so only one of these should be 
on). But again - I typically don't export at 900 dpi


Regards,

B


On 2017-01-16 08:29 PM, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:54:15 -0500
Patrick Shanahan  wrote:


youtube darktable tutorial sharpening

I didn't googled, I youtubed (if that can be converted to a verb) and
only found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhMR88Jt6nk

Using Drawn Masks in Darktable to Sharpen Select Areas. - YouTube. I
have found some redmine.darktable but it's 4 years old.

There's a lot more about denoising in DT




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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[darktable]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:54:15 -0500
Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

>youtube darktable tutorial sharpening

I didn't googled, I youtubed (if that can be converted to a verb) and
only found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhMR88Jt6nk

Using Drawn Masks in Darktable to Sharpen Select Areas. - YouTube. I
have found some redmine.darktable but it's 4 years old.

There's a lot more about denoising in DT

-- 
sknahT

vyS

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Re: [darktable-user] Sharpening (round 2)

[Patrick Shanahan]

* darkta...@911networks.com  [01-16-17 21:37]:
> Hi,
> 
> DT 2.2.1 on arch
> 
> I'm still having problems with the export: 900x900.
> 
> Here are my settings: http://i.imgur.com/QS74VlT.png
> 
> Here is a comparison: http://i.imgur.com/BzbRfbs.png
> 
> * left: full, no resizing
> * middle: resized to 900x900 at export (the settings:
>   http://i.imgur.com/QS74VlT.png) append history...
> * right: full (no resizing) by DT. Resized to 900x900 by mogrify
>   (imagemagik)
> 
> Is there some good tutorial on DT sharpening?

google "youtube darktable tutorial sharpening"

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2  Registered Linux User #207535  
  
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo@ http://linuxcounter.net

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