Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Michiel Beijen]

Hi Pali!

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 12:49 PM,   wrote:

> Hi! And what are you going to do with all commits which you reverted in
> 4.043 version? As I remember, months ago you wrote that you reapply
> fixes, but nothing happened. Instead you started merging conflicting
> new pull requests which other people opened on github. This just prevent
> any future reintroduction of fixes which were already done and was
> reverted. Or you going to invent wheel again? I'm really surprised that
> you now want to throw out everything which I did, including security
> fixes for SSL/TLS or new versions of MariaDB/MySQL (with huge test
> setup). Otherwise I do not understand why you have not looked at
> reverted commit yet... Or are you expecting that new after one year I
> should start rebasing all my commits which I did on top of master and
> opening pull requests again and again? Sorry, but this really look that
> you are not interested in new supporting new MariaDB version and now is
> really a good time to create a fork of DBD::mysql which would contains
> support for new MariaDB, huge test coverage and security fixes for
> SSL/TLS.

As you might have seen I'm adding back the commits that were added
between 4.041 and 4.042 piece by piece to the master branch.

I'm trying to prevent breaking stuff so I'm moving slowly.

I'm not expecting you to do any rebasing or sending new pull requests
of code which we had already. I'll be applying the patches myself.
Also, please note that the huge Travis setup and TLS fixes were really
good and I absolutely am going to add this back to master.

That said, I merged https://github.com/perl5-dbi/DBD-mysql/pull/181
which changes the bug tracker location to Github in the META.yml this
morning; we don't need to merge everything exactly in order and
accepting this pull request really does not make it impossible to
later add the patches between 4.041 and 4.042 back to the code base.

And of course we *NEED* to support libmysqlclient of MySQL 8 and also
MariaDB, I can't see us making a new release to CPAN that would *NOT*
support this.

--
Michiel

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[pali]

On Friday 10 November 2017 10:13:55 Patrick M. Galbraith wrote:
> Greetings all!
> 
> Michiel and I have been talking, weighing options of what course to take in
> dealing with moving forward-- with the goal of both offering both stability
> and the choice to have the latest functionality and bug fixes as well as
> give contributors the opportunity to be part of overall improvements to the
> driver.
> 
> What we are going to do is:
> 
> Add to the connection the ability to turn on proper UTF handling with
> 'mysql_enable_proper_unicode'. This gives the user volition the option to 
> knowingly
> toggle whether they want the new functionality and understand that
> data structures returned or accepted by the driver might be different
> than without this setting.
> 
> The other options had their merits, but we think this will solve the issue
> while keeping the driver unified and prevent divergence.
> 
> Thank you for your input over the last couple months-- we look forward to
> moving ahead!
> 
> Patrick and Michiel
> 

Hi! And what are you going to do with all commits which you reverted in
4.043 version? As I remember, months ago you wrote that you reapply
fixes, but nothing happened. Instead you started merging conflicting
new pull requests which other people opened on github. This just prevent
any future reintroduction of fixes which were already done and was
reverted. Or you going to invent wheel again? I'm really surprised that
you now want to throw out everything which I did, including security
fixes for SSL/TLS or new versions of MariaDB/MySQL (with huge test
setup). Otherwise I do not understand why you have not looked at
reverted commit yet... Or are you expecting that new after one year I
should start rebasing all my commits which I did on top of master and
opening pull requests again and again? Sorry, but this really look that
you are not interested in new supporting new MariaDB version and now is
really a good time to create a fork of DBD::mysql which would contains
support for new MariaDB, huge test coverage and security fixes for
SSL/TLS.

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[pali]

And I would suggest to disable issue tracker on github as primary bug
tracker (according to DBD::mysql documentation) is on RT and also
probably all problems are reported there. The worst thing which can be
is to have two independent bug trackers, which is current situation.

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Patrick M. Galbraith]

Me too!

I look forward to getting pull requests reviewed and in the driver as 
well as get your UTF-8 work in per my previous email. We can use all the 
help we can get.


regards,

Patrick

On 11/11/17 3:53 AM, p...@cpan.org wrote:

On Friday 10 November 2017 10:13:55 Patrick M. Galbraith wrote:

Greetings all!

Michiel and I have been talking, weighing options of what course to take in
dealing with moving forward-- with the goal of both offering both stability
and the choice to have the latest functionality and bug fixes as well as
give contributors the opportunity to be part of overall improvements to the
driver.

What we are going to do is:

Add to the connection the ability to turn on proper UTF handling with
'mysql_enable_proper_unicode'. This gives the user volition the option to 
knowingly
toggle whether they want the new functionality and understand that
data structures returned or accepted by the driver might be different
than without this setting.

The other options had their merits, but we think this will solve the issue
while keeping the driver unified and prevent divergence.

Thank you for your input over the last couple months-- we look forward to
moving ahead!

Patrick and Michiel

Great! Thank you very much, I'm waiting for a new action which would
bring DBD::mysql back to the active development.

RE: DBD::mysql next steps

[Curtis Leach]

Just a thought, also add another flag to explicitly use the buggy code even if it is the default.  That option would just suppress the warnings for now. ('mysql_enable_depreciated_unicode' vs 'mysql_enable_proper_unicode')

If the warnings are annoying enough it gives the users of the "depreciated" code base an incentive to review their code to at least turn off the warnings and start thinking about fixing their code.

Then eventually if you use the "depreciated",  or don't use the "proper" option, you could just abort the code with an error message saying to downgrade DBD::mysql  to a specific release.   It should be fairly strait forward to downgrade DBD::mysql at that point.



  
  


  Curtis Leach  |  
  Lead EngineerO 
  702-494-4562    One Harrah's Court | Las Vegas, NV 
  89119www.caesars.com
  

 

-Original Message-
From: Darren Duncan [mailto:dar...@darrenduncan.net] 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:39 PM
To: dbi-users@perl.org
Subject: Re: DBD::mysql next steps

On 2017-11-10 5:58 PM, Dan Book wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Noel Butler wrote:
> Given that things are only ever going to move forward with my/maria-sql
> would it not be better to enable this by default, and have a "disable"
> setting for those who want to run something of antiques?
>
> Because in years to come there will only ever be the modern versions and
> you;ll have to change default behavior then anyway, but since that time is
> mostly here now, it makes more sense to enable it by default.
>
> No, this whole issue came about because existing code requires 
> modification to continue working. Requiring a new option to be set to 
> enable old behavior would cause the same problem. Backcompat is "forever".

Yes, exactly.

However, other things we CAN do include:

1.  Prominently document the new switch with the strong recommendation that people flip it on by default in new code just as part of good housekeeping. 
Basically in the same vein as recommending use-strict or use-warnings without turning them on by default.  This also means that all code examples for DBD::mysql should make sure to include setting the flag on.

2.  After a reasonable but relatively short delay following the first version with this switch, make DBD::mysql issue warnings when it is used without turning that switch on.  That should draw the attention of people that they need to update their code to work more properly but without actually breaking anything (unless someone uses warnings with FATAL, but then they asked for it).  I say have a delay so that people who pay attention and would fix their code soon don't have reams of warnings appearing in their server logs.  Although in general to keep the warning count down it could probably just be issued the first time a connection handle is used without the flag.

3.  Make sure that at least the public or known Perl code using DBD::mysql and has reasonable control over use of the handle would turn the flag on.

So Darkpan is mainly handled by #1 and #2 such as it can be.

-- Darren Duncan

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[pali]

On Friday 10 November 2017 10:13:55 Patrick M. Galbraith wrote:
> Greetings all!
> 
> Michiel and I have been talking, weighing options of what course to take in
> dealing with moving forward-- with the goal of both offering both stability
> and the choice to have the latest functionality and bug fixes as well as
> give contributors the opportunity to be part of overall improvements to the
> driver.
> 
> What we are going to do is:
> 
> Add to the connection the ability to turn on proper UTF handling with
> 'mysql_enable_proper_unicode'. This gives the user volition the option to 
> knowingly
> toggle whether they want the new functionality and understand that
> data structures returned or accepted by the driver might be different
> than without this setting.
> 
> The other options had their merits, but we think this will solve the issue
> while keeping the driver unified and prevent divergence.
> 
> Thank you for your input over the last couple months-- we look forward to
> moving ahead!
> 
> Patrick and Michiel

Great! Thank you very much, I'm waiting for a new action which would
bring DBD::mysql back to the active development.

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Darren Duncan]

On 2017-11-10 5:58 PM, Dan Book wrote:

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Noel Butler wrote:
Given that things are only ever going to move forward with my/maria-sql
would it not be better to enable this by default, and have a "disable"
setting for those who want to run something of antiques?

Because in years to come there will only ever be the modern versions and
you;ll have to change default behaviour then anyway, but since that time is
mostly here now, it makes more sense to enable it by default.

No, this whole issue came about because existing code requires modification to
continue working. Requiring a new option to be set to enable old behavior would
cause the same problem. Backcompat is "forever".


Yes, exactly.

However, other things we CAN do include:

1.  Prominently document the new switch with the strong recommendation that 
people flip it on by default in new code just as part of good housekeeping. 
Basically in the same vein as recommending use-strict or use-warnings without 
turning them on by default.  This also means that all code examples for 
DBD::mysql should make sure to include setting the flag on.


2.  After a reasonable but relatively short delay following the first version 
with this switch, make DBD::mysql issue warnings when it is used without turning 
that switch on.  That should draw the attention of people that they need to 
update their code to work more properly but without actually breaking anything 
(unless someone uses warnings with FATAL, but then they asked for it).  I say 
have a delay so that people who pay attention and would fix their code soon 
don't have reams of warnings appearing in their server logs.  Although in 
general to keep the warning count down it could probably just be issued the 
first time a connection handle is used without the flag.


3.  Make sure that at least the public or known Perl code using DBD::mysql and 
has reasonable control over use of the handle would turn the flag on.


So Darkpan is mainly handled by #1 and #2 such as it can be.

-- Darren Duncan

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Dan Book]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Noel Butler  wrote:
>
> Given that things are only ever going to move forward with my/maria-sql
> would it not be better to enable this by default, and have a "disable"
> setting for those who want to run something of antiques?
>
> Because in years to come there will only ever be the modern versions and
> you;ll have to change default behaviour then anyway, but since that time is
> mostly here now, it makes more sense to enable it by default.
>

No, this whole issue came about because existing code requires modification
to continue working. Requiring a new option to be set to enable old
behavior would cause the same problem. Backcompat is "forever".

-Dan

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Noel Butler]

On 11/11/2017 01:13, Patrick M. Galbraith wrote:

> Greetings all!
> 
> Michiel and I have been talking, weighing options of what course to take in
> dealing with moving forward-- with the goal of both offering both stability
> and the choice to have the latest functionality and bug fixes as well as
> give contributors the opportunity to be part of overall improvements to the
> driver.
> 
> What we are going to do is:
> 
> Add to the connection the ability to turn on proper UTF handling with
> 'mysql_enable_proper_unicode'. This gives the user volition the option to 
> knowingly
> toggle whether they want the new functionality and understand that
> data structures returned or accepted by the driver might be different
> than without this setting.
> 
> The other options had their merits, but we think this will solve the issue
> while keeping the driver unified and prevent divergence.
> 
> Thank you for your input over the last couple months-- we look forward to
> moving ahead!
> 
> Patrick and Michiel

Given that things are only ever going to move forward with my/maria-sql
would it not be better to enable this by default, and have a "disable"
setting for those who want to run something of antiques? 

Because in years to come there will only ever be the modern versions and
you;ll have to change default behaviour then anyway, but since that time
is mostly here now, it makes more sense to enable it by default. 

-- 
Kind Regards, 

Noel Butler 

This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally 
privileged
information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or
reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written
authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments,
immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not
waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only
PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary
formatted documents 

 

Links:
--
[1] http://www.adobe.com/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument

Re: DBD::mysql next steps

[Darren Duncan]

I agree in principle with Patrick's plan.

My strong recommendation for continuing development under a different module 
name was based on the assumption (but not the knowledge) that the Unicode/Blob 
problems were rooted in the DBD::mysql codebase in such a way that they blocked 
the ability to use the newer MySQL/MariaDB/etc client libraries properly and 
that maintaining support for both behaviors user-configurable would be too 
difficult to do without making bugs worse.


However, I also believe that Patrick's proposal (a single DBD::mysql under that 
name where the incompatible new behavior is toggled on a per-connection switch) 
is actually the best and most elegant solution for satisfying all parties under 
the assumption that there are savvy developers who fully understand the problem 
and are able and willing to support such a more-complicated codebase.


-- Darren Duncan

On 2017-11-10 7:13 AM, Patrick M. Galbraith wrote:

Greetings all!

Michiel and I have been talking, weighing options of what course to take in
dealing with moving forward-- with the goal of both offering both stability
and the choice to have the latest functionality and bug fixes as well as
give contributors the opportunity to be part of overall improvements to the
driver.

What we are going to do is:

Add to the connection the ability to turn on proper UTF handling with
'mysql_enable_proper_unicode'. This gives the user volition the option to 
knowingly
toggle whether they want the new functionality and understand that
data structures returned or accepted by the driver might be different
than without this setting.

The other options had their merits, but we think this will solve the issue
while keeping the driver unified and prevent divergence.

Thank you for your input over the last couple months-- we look forward to
moving ahead!

Patrick and Michiel