Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
On 3/21/2018 11:30 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > Le 21/03/2018 à 15:27, Eric Johansson a écrit : >> On 3/20/2018 5:35 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: >>> >>> What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a >>> head-tracking software? >> I'm frustrated by this kind of question because frequently, this is the >> wrong question. you should be asking what is the appropriate interface >> to enable the person with a disability to write, and more importantly, >> edit text. much of this thread has been proposing answers based on >> what's available, not what the person needs. > > I understand what you mean. I just don't know what people with motor > disability need. I'm trying to understand what it is available and > I'll check with an association what the users use in practice. I'm in > the first step on a long way. We need more than just an accessibility tool, we need a different way of accessing functionality and data embedded in applications. I've been trying for years to figure out how to write code by speech and here's the current state of thinking. I did this is a proposal to github for talk it github universe. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M14DEoC2uTWtQv1HtRyUwK5NKT6Wb0vutu98F9Yl1b0/edit?usp=sharing It just occurred to me that another example of building your own interface for the moment is what I'm doing right now. I'm extracting bank statements to give to my accountant for tax prep. When you download a statement, my bank labels every statement PDF.pdf. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. So I built a grammar that I can say "statement in June" and it creates a file name of "1234-2018-06.pdf". I still have to, display in PDF and then click the download button before I can get to the point where I need to enter a filename but being able to generate filenames by speech makes it much easier. > >> I can't use keyboards much because of a repetitive stress injury. I >> would say that the most efficient way to write text with a head tracking >> software is to not even try at all. It's the wrong tool. For many kinds >> of mobility-based disabilities (RSI, arthritis, amputation etc.) speech >> recognition would be a better tool. > > Which tool are you using on your GNU/Linux distribution for doing > speech recognition ? I'm not using a GNU/Linux distribution because well people of promised speech recognition on Linux for as long as I've been disabled and it just hasn't happened. what I use is Windows with NaturallySpeaking and what ever hacks I can get to drive free software. I'm missing tons of functionality that's present in NaturallySpeaking plus word (i.e. Select-and-Say and easy misrecognition correction) but I do what I can. I think it's safe to assume that we will not see speech recognition on linux in the near future. there are at least a half a dozen projects I can name off the top of my head that were going to provide speech recognition on Linux "any day now". If you going to use speech recognition today, the recognition environment must be available now. The question then becomes what can we do if we put speech recognition "in a separate machine" like a VM or an android phone. the idea is to isolate the nonfree components so that a disabled person can make a living, participate online etc. using a mostly free environment. I propose this because the assumption that every machine should be equipped with the accessibility tools the user needs raises the cost of accessibility and limits the disabled user to just one machine that has been customized for them. If on the other hand, if we put the accessibility interface in a separate box like a smart phone and provide a gateway to drive applications then many more machines could be made accessible at very low overhead. remember what I said about solving the disabled person's needs? As I said to one free software advocate, take care of the needs of the disabled person to make them as independent as possible, to earn a living, to live a life first. Advocate free software second if it fits their needs. I know this is not a popular attitude in some circles but, quite frankly if I had to wait for speech recognition from the free software community, I would be living on disability, wasting my life because I wouldn't be able to work, I wouldn't be able to go to school, and I just can't tell you how many things you lose when your hands don't work right.
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
On 03/21/2018 10:30 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: Le 21/03/2018 à 15:27, Eric Johansson a écrit : On 3/20/2018 5:35 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a head-tracking software? [snip] I can't use keyboards much because of a repetitive stress injury. I would say that the most efficient way to write text with a head tracking software is to not even try at all. It's the wrong tool. For many kinds of mobility-based disabilities (RSI, arthritis, amputation etc.) speech recognition would be a better tool. Which tool are you using on your GNU/Linux distribution for doing speech recognition ? As to computer usage, I am not disabled. I'm finding the discussion of Dasher valuable for other reasons. Is there now viable speech recognition for Linux? I've not done an intensive search since Dragon Naturally Speaking (a Windows only app) was the only game in town. However I'm "mobility impaired" due to breaking my back about ten years ago - original prognosis was lifetime in wheelchair. I heartily agree with comments in this thread that unless you are disabled (or have frequent contact with that disability) you have no idea ...!
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
Le 21/03/2018 à 15:27, Eric Johansson a écrit : On 3/20/2018 5:35 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a head-tracking software? I'm frustrated by this kind of question because frequently, this is the wrong question. you should be asking what is the appropriate interface to enable the person with a disability to write, and more importantly, edit text. much of this thread has been proposing answers based on what's available, not what the person needs. I understand what you mean. I just don't know what people with motor disability need. I'm trying to understand what it is available and I'll check with an association what the users use in practice. I'm in the first step on a long way. I can't use keyboards much because of a repetitive stress injury. I would say that the most efficient way to write text with a head tracking software is to not even try at all. It's the wrong tool. For many kinds of mobility-based disabilities (RSI, arthritis, amputation etc.) speech recognition would be a better tool. Which tool are you using on your GNU/Linux distribution for doing speech recognition ? Best regards, Alex.
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
On 3/20/2018 5:35 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > > What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a > head-tracking software? I'm frustrated by this kind of question because frequently, this is the wrong question. you should be asking what is the appropriate interface to enable the person with a disability to write, and more importantly, edit text. much of this thread has been proposing answers based on what's available, not what the person needs. I can't use keyboards much because of a repetitive stress injury. I would say that the most efficient way to write text with a head tracking software is to not even try at all. It's the wrong tool. For many kinds of mobility-based disabilities (RSI, arthritis, amputation etc.) speech recognition would be a better tool. your question touches a hot spot for me because I've been living with a disability for about 25 years now. I've also seen, for the same 25 years people without disabilities proposing the same solutions over and over again, either not able to or unwilling to hear that those solutions are , at best crap, at worst humiliating. As a person with a disability, I will tell you anytime you try to emulate/simulate a mouse and keyboard with tools like on-screen keyboards, I tracking etc., you are solving the wrong problem. the right problem (my opinion) is digging into applications and revealing internal information and providing access to internal controls so that you can build an interface that matches the person's disability. It's also very important to build the interface it lets the person automate or extend that interface without counting on anybody else to create that extension. For example, my hands don't work right so if I'm going to extend my speech recognition interface, I need to do it with speech recognition. So I would go back to your disabled person and really look at what they need. If they have enough physical ability enabling them to use speech recognition, then that will make them more independent than head trackers or on-screen keyboards would ever do. --- eric
Re: Running speech-dispatcher as a systemwide service
Hi Ali Gürler schrieb am 21.03.2018, 13:46 +0100: >I installed gdm3 and mate-desktop, but in some cases I would like to >use speech-dispatcher without starting a graphical desktop. When I press >STRG+Alt+F2 I get the login prompt, but at this point there is no voice >speaking. What screen reader are you using at the console? If you use braille, there's a chance that you're using BRLTTY, which has no speech enabled by default. For this you have to install brltty-speechd and configure BRLTTY to use it in /etc/brltty.conf. Regarding speech-dispatcher: you can run it in system-wide mode, but as far as I know, you need to run pulse as a system service as well, please correct me if I'm wrong. There are instructions for pulse on our wiki page: https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Run_Pulseaudio_as_root For the speech-dispatcher part, open /etc/default/speech-dispatcher and set the line containing "RUN=no" to yes. It should run as a daemon by default. You need to restart the appropriate services or reboot. HTH Sebastian -- Web: https://www.crustulus.de (English|Deutsch) | Blog: https://www.crustulus.de/blog FreeDict: Free multilingual dictionaries - http://www.freedict.org Freies Latein-Deutsch-Wörterbuch: https://www.crustulus.de/freedict.de.html signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Running speech-dispatcher as a systemwide service
Hello, for linux beginners, I am sorry saying this, the speech-dispatcher is really awful. I installed gdm3 and mate-desktop, but in some cases I would like to use speech-dispatcher without starting a graphical desktop. When I press STRG+Alt+F2 I get the login prompt, but at this point there is no voice speaking. Can I configure speech-dispatcher as a systemwide service, if yes, how to do this? Ali --
Re: broken xcalib
Hello List, this bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=851810 got fixed here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104098 can this be backported, so "xcalib -ia" can be used again to invert colors? Florian Am 27.10.2017 um 09:28 schrieb Florian Wille: Hi List, 'xcalib -ia' is used for accessibilty needs to invert the screen, e.g. for applications that do not respect high contrast themes. For Jessie its broken or X is, depends on how you look at it: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=851810 Is there any way to get this fixed? This bug is just sitting there for nine months... Florian
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
Le 20/03/2018 à 18:31, Mats L a écrit : Both Onboard and Caribou were intended as replacements of GOK, but are not really. GOK was an ambitious effort to provide tailorable access for individuals with major motor difficulties, including need for single and double switch input. But it was not a very suitable option for a wider group of users with a need for a more basic on-screen keyboard for use with direct point and click or touch selection. Do you have reported such bugs against onboard or Caribou? Do you have asked upstream to make GOK comes back if it has a different purpose? Best regards, Alex.
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
Le 20/03/2018 à 17:33, Alex ARNAUD a écrit : Hello Thibaut, Le 20/03/2018 à 11:14, Thibaut Paumard a écrit : Le 20/03/2018 à 10:35, Alex ARNAUD a écrit : What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a head-tracking software? Dasher comes to mind: I've tested it, looks good to me. Is Dasher should be configured to replace the keyboard when I open a text edition field? I've found how to write text but it's only from the dasher window so imagine if I would like to enter text on Firefox, how I can do that? Maybe there is a documentation I could look on? (I've already read some documentation I've found on the dasher website). Dear Alex, Dasher has a "direct mode" that you can activate from le File menu. In this mode, you can click in a text input widget in any application and come back to dasher window to type text that will directly appear in this widget. I have typed part of this e-mail this way in thunderbird using dasher. I don't use dasher on a daily basis myself, so I can't judge whether it's reliable or practical for daily use. For sure it does not play nice with mouse or sloppy focus. Also, due to how it is implemented, direct mode works only under X11, not in Wayland: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778151 So by default direct mode works in Debian Stretch (current stable), but not in Buster (current unstable). Kind regards, Thibaut.
Re: Accessibility for person with a motor disability
El 20/03/18 a las 10:35, Alex ARNAUD escribió: Are you aware of differences between eviacam and GNOME mousetrap? I didn't try recent versions, thus I cannot answer What is as you know the most efficient way to write text with a head-tracking software? As Thibaut suggested, I think the most efficient writing system for head-tracking is dasher. However, all people I've seen using a head-tracker combined it with some sort of on-screen keyboard. Best Cesar
