Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 25/09/17 14:30, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 25 September 2017 05:15:36 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:



I believe lo is now inserted automatically.


Its not mentioned as a builtin in the debian handbook pdf, I read the
networking section yesterday looking for clues. I've another machine
about 3 feet from the rock64 thats logged into their forum.


A virgin interfaces file here (actually, a copy before I made any 
changes) doesn't have it. That's from pukka Debian running on an RPi 
rather than Raspbian, I can't remember where I saw the comment that it 
was now optional (albeit harmless) and my usual practice is to put it in 
when I set up static addresses etc.



I've just fired up a known-good RPi3 on a 3A PSU with Stretch
2017-09-07, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong: no
display on HDMI,


That I've had all along, from the first powerup. There's 3 or 4 threads
about that on the forum that I need to re-read. But I get the impression
most are winders escapees, if they say they've fixed it, they never give
a clue as to HOW they fixed it. Frustrating to a new reader.


I experimented with the same RPi a couple of weeks ago connected to a 
DVI port on an NEC Multisync, and got a display. However today it 
certainly wouldn't talk happily to a dedicated HDMI Philips monitor... I 
lack the time to investigate in any depth and I've put so much time into 
trying to get these things to work with "unusual" HDMI-connected devices 
that I don't have much inclination either.



but capslock on the keyboard toggles as expected.


Thats from the batteries in the keyboard if its wireless. My logitech
k-360s caps lock indicators work when they are out of radio reach.


Wireless? /Wireless?/ Wash your mouth out. Classic IBM PS/2 keyboards 
don't /do/ wireless, and neither do I when I can possibly avoid it.



But that brings up a question: How do I give a machine a known name, so
even if its address changes with the next connection, I can still login
to it by that machine name? I am so used to static addresses, I never
learned how to make dhcp work transparently.


We tend to use a lot of static addresses and hardcoded DNS names around 
here, which in part reflects the "maturity" of our overall system. 
However these days, if you have an e.g. ISC DHCP and DNS server on a 
"nearbu" system they can update each other... this is something that 
I've had working and is pretty much SOP but there's no way I'd call 
myself practiced and competent to talk you through it :-)



Now, I'd better go refill the missuses coffee cup and see what she wants
for breakfast. She's a skinny thing, no padding, fell and busted a hip
back in February, has COPD too so she's not getting around very good. So
I'm doing it all.


Look after yourselves.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 25 September 2017 05:15:36 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 25/09/17 03:15, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 24 September 2017 17:50:22 Alan Corey wrote:
> >> Try putting your static route in interfaces, in the eth0 section
> >> with an up, like
> >>
> >> iface eth0 inet static
> >>  address 192.168.71.3/24
> >>  netmask 255.255.255.0
> >>  up route add default gw 192.168.71.1
> >>
> >> I think post-up might be too late, maybe there's a pre-up.
>
> post-up works reliably here, and I'm doing a lot of router stuff on
> them- but based on Jessie, and typically on pukka Debian rather than
> Raspbian.
>
> > Whatever, didn't work either, so I was trying "variations on a
> > theme" and locked myself out, so I pulled on some slippers and
> > fished a light out of my pocket, opened the fire door out of the
> > bedroom and padded across the back deck to the garage, to be 
> > greeted by the monitor showing me an x login.  Neat, but no response
> > from the keyboard or mouse. Reset it several times to no avail. ISTR
> > seeing something about x killing the usb power on the forum. I can
> > see the effect of keypresses while the boot msgs are scrolling by,
> > so that forum msg now makes sense. Might have to round up a bigger
> > psu, its running on a pi supply rated at 2.5 amps, mini-wall-wart
> > type. I've got a bigger one lounging about in that midden heap, a
> > meanwell perforated box rated at 3, maybe 4 amps.
> >
> > So I'll stick the card back in a reader tomorrow, see if I can find
> > that eth0 file and remove my last variation, which was "pre-up"
> > IIRC.  If that kills the x login, then Houston, we have a problem.
> > :) Twon't be the first time I've had to backtrack. :)  Sigh...
> >
> > There is another possibility, ifconfig shows a lo interface but
> > there isn't any such starter file!  There is an lo stanza on the
> > jessie/pi. So one of my experiments will be to compose one, just for
> > S  Steal it out of the pi's jessie file.  Yeah, valid experiment
> > that.
>
> I believe lo is now inserted automatically.

Its not mentioned as a builtin in the debian handbook pdf, I read the 
networking section yesterday looking for clues. I've another machine 
about 3 feet from the rock64 thats logged into their forum.

> I've just fired up a known-good RPi3 on a 3A PSU with Stretch
> 2017-09-07, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong: no
> display on HDMI,

That I've had all along, from the first powerup. There's 3 or 4 threads 
about that on the forum that I need to re-read. But I get the impression 
most are winders escapees, if they say they've fixed it, they never give 
a clue as to HOW they fixed it. Frustrating to a new reader.

> but capslock on the keyboard toggles as expected. 

Thats from the batteries in the keyboard if its wireless. My logitech 
k-360s caps lock indicators work when they are out of radio reach.  
Thats the only keyboard I use here. The square sided keys aren't nearly 
as subject to being jammed down by flying swarf from a cutting tool 
throwing metal chips about.  The usual tapered side keys allow the swarf 
to follow the key down the side of the key, then jam the key down. 

Around cnc machinery thats very dangerous when the jammed key is one of 
the jog keys. The  machine runs till it hits something it wasn't 
supposed to, often breaking the cutting tool in addition to damaging the 
workpiece. Cutting tools can run north of $600 for some styles, like a 
2.5" diameter face mill with 6 to 8 replaceable carbide cutting inserts. 
Obviously I don't have one of those. So I write the code to make do with 
a $25 1/4" diameter end mill. Much slower of course. :(
 
> This is definitely not something I can put substantial time into ATM,
> but I think there's a possibility of e.g. things being broken if
> there's no visible DHCP server.
>
There is a dhcp server in the router. But its there only for my rather 
geriatric lappy which is being used maybe 2x a year, mostly to keep its 
install up to date. That, iirc, is the only place a mac address match 
WAS but I took that out when my sons with their smart phones were here 
last so they could get connected.

But that brings up a question: How do I give a machine a known name, so 
even if its address changes with the next connection, I can still login 
to it by that machine name? I am so used to static addresses, I never 
learned how to make dhcp work transparently.

> Best I can suggest for the moment is keeping a close eye on the forum,
> since I think this is an Raspbian issue rather than more general
> Debian.

I have been and expect to.

auyfan (spelling?) is I think the author of these releases. debian 
obviously does not have the manpower to support every SoC from Mr and 
Mrs ClodHopper, its simply not in the budget. And I understand that.

Its entirely possible that there are at least as many people working on 
LinuxCNC as there are working on debian for x86 stuffs. These folks do 
it for the love of it, 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 25/09/17 03:15, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 24 September 2017 17:50:22 Alan Corey wrote:


Try putting your static route in interfaces, in the eth0 section with
an up, like

iface eth0 inet static
 address 192.168.71.3/24
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 up route add default gw 192.168.71.1

I think post-up might be too late, maybe there's a pre-up.


post-up works reliably here, and I'm doing a lot of router stuff on 
them- but based on Jessie, and typically on pukka Debian rather than 
Raspbian.



Whatever, didn't work either, so I was trying "variations on a theme" and
locked myself out, so I pulled on some slippers and fished a light out
of my pocket, opened the fire door out of the bedroom and padded across
the back deck to the garage, to be  greeted by the monitor showing me an
x login.  Neat, but no response from the keyboard or mouse. Reset it
several times to no avail. ISTR seeing something about x killing the usb
power on the forum. I can see the effect of keypresses while the boot
msgs are scrolling by, so that forum msg now makes sense. Might have to
round up a bigger psu, its running on a pi supply rated at 2.5 amps,
mini-wall-wart type. I've got a bigger one lounging about in that midden
heap, a meanwell perforated box rated at 3, maybe 4 amps.

So I'll stick the card back in a reader tomorrow, see if I can find that
eth0 file and remove my last variation, which was "pre-up" IIRC.  If
that kills the x login, then Houston, we have a problem. :) Twon't be
the first time I've had to backtrack. :)  Sigh...

There is another possibility, ifconfig shows a lo interface but there
isn't any such starter file!  There is an lo stanza on the jessie/pi. So
one of my experiments will be to compose one, just for S  Steal it
out of the pi's jessie file.  Yeah, valid experiment that.


I believe lo is now inserted automatically.

I've just fired up a known-good RPi3 on a 3A PSU with Stretch 
2017-09-07, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong: no 
display on HDMI, but capslock on the keyboard toggles as expected. This 
is definitely not something I can put substantial time into ATM, but I 
think there's a possibility of e.g. things being broken if there's no 
visible DHCP server.


Best I can suggest for the moment is keeping a close eye on the forum, 
since I think this is an Raspbian issue rather than more general Debian.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

I was just thinking of how waiting for wifi to connect hangs my pis
booting.  Times out at 1 minute 20 seconds or so.  If the interface
was supposed to be connected to the router to be considered to be up
that could be a problem.

lo is loopback, 127.0.0.1, always points to the machine you're on.
Won't help in this case.  Has its uses though.  Even windows95 had
traceroute, jeez.

On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 24 September 2017 17:50:22 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> Try putting your static route in interfaces, in the eth0 section with
>> an up, like
>>
>> iface eth0 inet static
>> address 192.168.71.3/24
>> netmask 255.255.255.0
>> up route add default gw 192.168.71.1
>>
>> I think post-up might be too late, maybe there's a pre-up.
>>
> Whatever, didn't work either, so I was trying "variations on a theme" and
> locked myself out, so I pulled on some slippers and fished a light out
> of my pocket, opened the fire door out of the bedroom and padded across
> the back deck to the garage, to be  greeted by the monitor showing me an
> x login.  Neat, but no response from the keyboard or mouse. Reset it
> several times to no avail. ISTR seeing something about x killing the usb
> power on the forum. I can see the effect of keypresses while the boot
> msgs are scrolling by, so that forum msg now makes sense. Might have to
> round up a bigger psu, its running on a pi supply rated at 2.5 amps,
> mini-wall-wart type. I've got a bigger one lounging about in that midden
> heap, a meanwell perforated box rated at 3, maybe 4 amps.
>
> So I'll stick the card back in a reader tomorrow, see if I can find that
> eth0 file and remove my last variation, which was "pre-up" IIRC.  If
> that kills the x login, then Houston, we have a problem. :) Twon't be
> the first time I've had to backtrack. :)  Sigh...
>
> There is another possibility, ifconfig shows a lo interface but there
> isn't any such starter file!  There is an lo stanza on the jessie/pi. So
> one of my experiments will be to compose one, just for S  Steal it
> out of the pi's jessie file.  Yeah, valid experiment that.
>
> Thanks Alan.
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 17:50:22 Alan Corey wrote:

> Try putting your static route in interfaces, in the eth0 section with
> an up, like
>
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.71.3/24
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> up route add default gw 192.168.71.1
>
> I think post-up might be too late, maybe there's a pre-up.
>
Whatever, didn't work either, so I was trying "variations on a theme" and 
locked myself out, so I pulled on some slippers and fished a light out 
of my pocket, opened the fire door out of the bedroom and padded across 
the back deck to the garage, to be  greeted by the monitor showing me an 
x login.  Neat, but no response from the keyboard or mouse. Reset it 
several times to no avail. ISTR seeing something about x killing the usb 
power on the forum. I can see the effect of keypresses while the boot 
msgs are scrolling by, so that forum msg now makes sense. Might have to 
round up a bigger psu, its running on a pi supply rated at 2.5 amps, 
mini-wall-wart type. I've got a bigger one lounging about in that midden 
heap, a meanwell perforated box rated at 3, maybe 4 amps.

So I'll stick the card back in a reader tomorrow, see if I can find that 
eth0 file and remove my last variation, which was "pre-up" IIRC.  If 
that kills the x login, then Houston, we have a problem. :) Twon't be 
the first time I've had to backtrack. :)  Sigh...

There is another possibility, ifconfig shows a lo interface but there 
isn't any such starter file!  There is an lo stanza on the jessie/pi. So 
one of my experiments will be to compose one, just for S  Steal it 
out of the pi's jessie file.  Yeah, valid experiment that.

Thanks Alan.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

Try putting your static route in interfaces, in the eth0 section with
an up, like

iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.3/24
netmask 255.255.255.0
up route add default gw 192.168.71.1

I think post-up might be too late, maybe there's a pre-up.

On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 24 September 2017 16:20:31 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On 24/09/17 19:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >>> I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in
>> >>> the network interface definition as in
>> >>>
>> >>> allow-hotplug eth0
>> >>> iface eth0 inet static
>> >>> address 172.27.200.5/24
>> >>> post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
>> >>> pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0
>> >>
>> >> Printed to carry out to it, rc.local didn't work at all.  I'll try
>> >> this
>> >
>> > next
>> >
>> >> Thanks.
>> >
>> > Didn't work, with my addresses, it gave me an empty route -n report.
>> > Back to doing it by hand after a reboot.
>> > Now trying to get X11 started. X server not in path. :(
>>
>> There's something badly wrong there. Run  ifconfig -a  to check that
>> your interfaces are named as expected.
> rock64@rock64:~$ sudo -i
> [sudo] password for rock64:
> root@rock64:~# ifconfig -a
> eth0: flags=4163  mtu 1500
> inet 192.168.71.2  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast
> 192.168.71.255
> inet6 fe80::3c1b:98ff:fe17:e38c  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20
> ether 3e:1b:98:17:e3:8c  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
> RX packets 46905  bytes 66972164 (63.8 MiB)
> RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
> TX packets 22393  bytes 1567772 (1.4 MiB)
> TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
> device interrupt 39
>
> lo: flags=73  mtu 65536
> inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
> inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10
> loop  txqueuelen 1  (Local Loopback)
> RX packets 3  bytes 232 (232.0 B)
> RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
> TX packets 3  bytes 232 (232.0 B)
> TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 16:20:31 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 24/09/17 19:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in
> >>> the network interface definition as in
> >>>
> >>> allow-hotplug eth0
> >>> iface eth0 inet static
> >>> address 172.27.200.5/24
> >>> post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
> >>> pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0
> >>
> >> Printed to carry out to it, rc.local didn't work at all.  I'll try
> >> this
> >
> > next
> >
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > Didn't work, with my addresses, it gave me an empty route -n report.
> > Back to doing it by hand after a reboot.
> > Now trying to get X11 started. X server not in path. :(
>
> There's something badly wrong there. Run  ifconfig -a  to check that
> your interfaces are named as expected.
rock64@rock64:~$ sudo -i
[sudo] password for rock64: 
root@rock64:~# ifconfig -a
eth0: flags=4163  mtu 1500
inet 192.168.71.2  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 
192.168.71.255
inet6 fe80::3c1b:98ff:fe17:e38c  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20
ether 3e:1b:98:17:e3:8c  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
RX packets 46905  bytes 66972164 (63.8 MiB)
RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
TX packets 22393  bytes 1567772 (1.4 MiB)
TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
device interrupt 39  

lo: flags=73  mtu 65536
inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10
loop  txqueuelen 1  (Local Loopback)
RX packets 3  bytes 232 (232.0 B)
RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
TX packets 3  bytes 232 (232.0 B)
TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

Thanks Mark.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 24/09/17 19:45, Gene Heskett wrote:


I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in
the network interface definition as in

allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 172.27.200.5/24
post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0


Printed to carry out to it, rc.local didn't work at all.  I'll try this

next


Thanks.


Didn't work, with my addresses, it gave me an empty route -n report. Back
to doing it by hand after a reboot.
Now trying to get X11 started. X server not in path. :(


There's something badly wrong there. Run  ifconfig -a  to check that 
your interfaces are named as expected.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 14:08:25 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Sunday 24 September 2017 13:43:20 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> > On 24/09/17 16:30, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:
> > >> But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces
> > >> if not to to be reliant on the routing table?
> > >>
> > >> But it's worth a shot, something like
> > >> route add default gw 192.168.71.1
> > >
> > > That was it!
> > >
> > > Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing
> > > synaptic and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did
> > > ask it to install xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde
> > > next, but its entirely too simple. With xfce I can set up 4
> > > workspaces/windows and the survive a reboot. You can add them in
> > > lxde, but they don't survive a reboot.
> > >
> > > Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in
> > > rc.local just for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not
> > > bode well. But we'll find out I guess.
> >
> > Is there something in the /etc/network/interfaces file which is
> > preempting what's in your .d directory?
> >
No, just the default source interfaces.d command

> > I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in
> > the network interface definition as in
> >
> > allow-hotplug eth0
> > iface eth0 inet static
> >address 172.27.200.5/24
> >post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
> >pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0
>
> Printed to carry out to it, rc.local didn't work at all.  I'll try this 
next
>
> Thanks.
>
Didn't work, with my addresses, it gave me an empty route -n report. Back 
to doing it by hand after a reboot.
Now trying to get X11 started. X server not in path. :(

Thanks Mark.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 13:43:20 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 24/09/17 16:30, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:
> >> But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces
> >> if not to to be reliant on the routing table?
> >>
> >> But it's worth a shot, something like
> >> route add default gw 192.168.71.1
> >
> > That was it!
> >
> > Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing
> > synaptic and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did ask
> > it to install xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde next, but
> > its entirely too simple. With xfce I can set up 4 workspaces/windows
> > and the survive a reboot. You can add them in lxde, but they don't
> > survive a reboot.
> >
> > Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in rc.local
> > just for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not bode well.
> > But we'll find out I guess.
>
> Is there something in the /etc/network/interfaces file which is
> preempting what's in your .d directory?
>
> I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in the
> network interface definition as in
>
> allow-hotplug eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
>address 172.27.200.5/24
>post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
>pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0
>
Printed to carry out to it, rc.local didn't work.  I'll try this next

Thanks.

> Even assuming that Network Mangler isn't being used, a mis-parse would
> not surprise me. I really can't remember the detail but I've
> previously come across some combination of packages which broke each
> other badly (something like multiple gateways breaking VLAN support).
>
> Apropos different window managers (AKA desktop, environment etc.), a
> lot depends on what display manager (AKA login screen) is being used.
> For various reasons we favour lightdm, which generally speaking picks
> up the available window managers.
>
> Apropos locales, my setup notes for putting Debian onto an RPi have
>
> ! dpkg-reconfigure tzdata

I'll try that, worked.
> !
> ! apt-get update and upgrade here. Install  locales (ALREADY DONE) 
> and ! console-setup  and run  dpkg-reconfigure  locales  console-setup
>  and ! keyboard-configuration  using physical console just in case...
> it's ! probably better to MOVE THIS EARLIER since  apt-get upgrade 
> warns ! about some LANG etc. settings that haven't yet been
> established.
>
> You can see what packages are installed using something like
>
> dpkg --get-selections

I need to see whats available, and for that I need a safe apt-get super 
called synaptic. But I've not made x run yet. startx can't be found. But 
small progress, installed locate and friends, mc, less and a few others 
including xfce4, which seems light weight but still more capable than 
lightdm/lxde.

Joining rock64 forum, came back in here to field the confirmation email.

Thanks Mark, I'll confirm the forum, and go see if I can fix 
interfaces.d/eth0.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 24/09/17 16:30, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:


But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces if
not to to be reliant on the routing table?

But it's worth a shot, something like
route add default gw 192.168.71.1


That was it!

Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing synaptic
and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did ask it to install
xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde next, but its entirely too
simple. With xfce I can set up 4 workspaces/windows and the survive a
reboot. You can add them in lxde, but they don't survive a reboot.

Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in rc.local just
for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not bode well. But
we'll find out I guess.


Is there something in the /etc/network/interfaces file which is 
preempting what's in your .d directory?


I wouldn't put the manual route command in rc.local, I'd put it in the 
network interface definition as in


allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet static
  address 172.27.200.5/24
  post-up route add default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0 metric 0
  pre-down route del default gw 172.27.200.1 dev eth0

Even assuming that Network Mangler isn't being used, a mis-parse would 
not surprise me. I really can't remember the detail but I've previously 
come across some combination of packages which broke each other badly 
(something like multiple gateways breaking VLAN support).


Apropos different window managers (AKA desktop, environment etc.), a lot 
depends on what display manager (AKA login screen) is being used. For 
various reasons we favour lightdm, which generally speaking picks up the 
available window managers.


Apropos locales, my setup notes for putting Debian onto an RPi have

! dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
!
! apt-get update and upgrade here. Install  locales (ALREADY DONE)  and
! console-setup  and run  dpkg-reconfigure  locales  console-setup  and
! keyboard-configuration  using physical console just in case... it's
! probably better to MOVE THIS EARLIER since  apt-get upgrade  warns
! about some LANG etc. settings that haven't yet been established.

You can see what packages are installed using something like

dpkg --get-selections

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 12:36:41 Alan Corey wrote:

> Try obconf from openbox, I have 4 workspaces on my hp laptop done with
> that.  I think it's LXDE.  They survive reboots for me.
>
This is on the pi? Humm, not found on it either. I'll need to install it?

Thanks Alan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 12:26:49 Alan Corey wrote:

> So this is on the rock64 or one of your pis?  I thought the rock64 was
> too experimental to be able to use apt.  Raspbian or Debian?
>
Once I had a network, apt on the rock64 runs fine. installed sd card 
image is:

stretch-minimal-rock64-0.5.10-118-arm64.img

that I got the xz of from armbian, which is where the pine site sent me, 
the rock64 is the newest pine64 variant. $44 with 4GB of ram, and I've a 
32GB e-mmc module plugged in too. Don't think its being used yet though.

uname reports:
Linux rock64 4.4.77-rockchip-ayufan-118 #1 SMP Thu Sep 14 21:59:24 UTC 
2017 aarch64 GNU/Linux

Compared to the pi, damn its fast, but I'll need to locate a sink for the 
SoC eventually. None on it now.  And none listed at the pine64 store a/o 
late yesterday. The forum says it shouldn't be too long, they had to 
locate a new tape that is also a heat bond, most aren't very good at 
heat transfer.

Thanks Alan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

Try obconf from openbox, I have 4 workspaces on my hp laptop done with
that.  I think it's LXDE.  They survive reboots for me.

On 9/24/17, Alan Corey  wrote:
> So this is on the rock64 or one of your pis?  I thought the rock64 was
> too experimental to be able to use apt.  Raspbian or Debian?
>
> On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:
>>
>>> But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces if
>>> not to to be reliant on the routing table?
>>>
>>> But it's worth a shot, something like
>>> route add default gw 192.168.71.1
>>
>> That was it!
>>
>> Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing synaptic
>> and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did ask it to install
>> xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde next, but its entirely too
>> simple. With xfce I can set up 4 workspaces/windows and the survive a
>> reboot. You can add them in lxde, but they don't survive a reboot.
>>
>> Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in rc.local just
>> for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not bode well. But
>> we'll find out I guess.
>>
>> Thanks Alan, a bunch. I owe you a cold one. :)
>>
>>> It's simple enough to undo it with
>>> route del default
>>> to take it back out if it doesn't work.
>>>
>>> I dunno, I haven't manually messed with routing tables in years.  They
>>> can be  a bear on a laptop that gets moved between networks but since
>>> I retired my laptop never goes anywhere.  Gateway is one of the fields
>>> handled by DHCP but it looks like you don't use that.
>>>
>>> Never liked DHCP much but I'm getting used to it since my phone (wifi
>>> router) doesn't give me a choice.  I set up machine names in
>>> /etc/hostname and those become visible over the air.  So I can ping,
>>> ftp, ssh whatever upstairs, zero, hp but only as long as I keep my
>>> phone bill paid and it all works.
>>>
>>> On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>> > On Sunday 24 September 2017 04:34:50 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>> >> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at
>>> >> route -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of
>>> >> an indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
>>> >> because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
>>> >
>>> > As said before, traceroute is not installed.
>>> >
>>> > But I may have found a buglet.
>>> >
>>> > In the route -n output, no gateway has been assigned:
>>> >
>>> > root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
>>> > Kernel IP routing table
>>> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref
>>> > Use Iface
>>> > 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 2020
>>> >  0 eth0
>>> > 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 2020
>>> >  0 eth0
>>> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0
>>> >  0 eth0
>>> >
>>> > yet in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 it is:
>>> > allow-hotplug eth0
>>> > auto eth0
>>> > iface eth0 inet static
>>> > address 192.168.71.2/24
>>> > gateway 192.168.71.1
>>> > =
>>> > Same stuff from the pi running jessie
>>> > auto eth0
>>> >
>>> > # regular network for coyote.den
>>> > iface eth0 inet static
>>> > address 192.168.71.12
>>> > netmask 255.255.255.0
>>> > gateway 192.168.71.1
>>> >
>>> > And pi@picnc:~ $ route -n
>>> > Kernel IP routing table
>>> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref
>>> > Use Iface
>>> > 0.0.0.0 192.168.71.10.0.0.0 UG0  0
>>> >  0 eth0
>>> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0
>>> >  0 eth0
>>> >
>>> > end of jessie version
>>> >
>>> > Of course its not going to work w/o a gateway, but wth?
>>> >
>>> > Need a coffee IV.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks Mark.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> > --
>>> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> > Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -
> No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? -
> AB1JX
> Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

So this is on the rock64 or one of your pis?  I thought the rock64 was
too experimental to be able to use apt.  Raspbian or Debian?

On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces if
>> not to to be reliant on the routing table?
>>
>> But it's worth a shot, something like
>> route add default gw 192.168.71.1
>
> That was it!
>
> Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing synaptic
> and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did ask it to install
> xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde next, but its entirely too
> simple. With xfce I can set up 4 workspaces/windows and the survive a
> reboot. You can add them in lxde, but they don't survive a reboot.
>
> Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in rc.local just
> for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not bode well. But
> we'll find out I guess.
>
> Thanks Alan, a bunch. I owe you a cold one. :)
>
>> It's simple enough to undo it with
>> route del default
>> to take it back out if it doesn't work.
>>
>> I dunno, I haven't manually messed with routing tables in years.  They
>> can be  a bear on a laptop that gets moved between networks but since
>> I retired my laptop never goes anywhere.  Gateway is one of the fields
>> handled by DHCP but it looks like you don't use that.
>>
>> Never liked DHCP much but I'm getting used to it since my phone (wifi
>> router) doesn't give me a choice.  I set up machine names in
>> /etc/hostname and those become visible over the air.  So I can ping,
>> ftp, ssh whatever upstairs, zero, hp but only as long as I keep my
>> phone bill paid and it all works.
>>
>> On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> > On Sunday 24 September 2017 04:34:50 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>> >> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at
>> >> route -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of
>> >> an indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
>> >> because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
>> >
>> > As said before, traceroute is not installed.
>> >
>> > But I may have found a buglet.
>> >
>> > In the route -n output, no gateway has been assigned:
>> >
>> > root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
>> > Kernel IP routing table
>> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref
>> > Use Iface
>> > 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 2020
>> >  0 eth0
>> > 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 2020
>> >  0 eth0
>> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0
>> >  0 eth0
>> >
>> > yet in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 it is:
>> > allow-hotplug eth0
>> > auto eth0
>> > iface eth0 inet static
>> > address 192.168.71.2/24
>> > gateway 192.168.71.1
>> > =
>> > Same stuff from the pi running jessie
>> > auto eth0
>> >
>> > # regular network for coyote.den
>> > iface eth0 inet static
>> > address 192.168.71.12
>> > netmask 255.255.255.0
>> > gateway 192.168.71.1
>> >
>> > And pi@picnc:~ $ route -n
>> > Kernel IP routing table
>> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref
>> > Use Iface
>> > 0.0.0.0 192.168.71.10.0.0.0 UG0  0
>> >  0 eth0
>> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0
>> >  0 eth0
>> >
>> > end of jessie version
>> >
>> > Of course its not going to work w/o a gateway, but wth?
>> >
>> > Need a coffee IV.
>> >
>> > Thanks Mark.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> > --
>> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> > Genes Web page 
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 11:59:57 Alan Corey wrote:

> But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces if
> not to to be reliant on the routing table?
>
> But it's worth a shot, something like
> route add default gw 192.168.71.1

That was it!

Now I've used apt to update 5 packages, and its now installing synaptic 
and all its 2nd and 3rd cousins. 112 megs worth. I did ask it to install 
xfce, but it couldn't find it. I'll try lxde next, but its entirely too 
simple. With xfce I can set up 4 workspaces/windows and the survive a 
reboot. You can add them in lxde, but they don't survive a reboot.

Anyway, progress, sorta. I am going to put that command in rc.local just 
for S Oh, oh, I had to create that file, does not bode well. But 
we'll find out I guess.

Thanks Alan, a bunch. I owe you a cold one. :)

> It's simple enough to undo it with
> route del default
> to take it back out if it doesn't work.
>
> I dunno, I haven't manually messed with routing tables in years.  They
> can be  a bear on a laptop that gets moved between networks but since
> I retired my laptop never goes anywhere.  Gateway is one of the fields
> handled by DHCP but it looks like you don't use that.
>
> Never liked DHCP much but I'm getting used to it since my phone (wifi
> router) doesn't give me a choice.  I set up machine names in
> /etc/hostname and those become visible over the air.  So I can ping,
> ftp, ssh whatever upstairs, zero, hp but only as long as I keep my
> phone bill paid and it all works.
>
> On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 24 September 2017 04:34:50 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> >> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at 
> >> route -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of
> >> an indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
> >> because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
> >
> > As said before, traceroute is not installed.
> >
> > But I may have found a buglet.
> >
> > In the route -n output, no gateway has been assigned:
> >
> > root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
> > Kernel IP routing table
> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref   
> > Use Iface
> > 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 2020  
> >  0 eth0
> > 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 2020  
> >  0 eth0
> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0  
> >  0 eth0
> >
> > yet in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 it is:
> > allow-hotplug eth0
> > auto eth0
> > iface eth0 inet static
> > address 192.168.71.2/24
> > gateway 192.168.71.1
> > =
> > Same stuff from the pi running jessie
> > auto eth0
> >
> > # regular network for coyote.den
> > iface eth0 inet static
> > address 192.168.71.12
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > gateway 192.168.71.1
> >
> > And pi@picnc:~ $ route -n
> > Kernel IP routing table
> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref   
> > Use Iface
> > 0.0.0.0 192.168.71.10.0.0.0 UG0  0  
> >  0 eth0
> > 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  0  
> >  0 eth0
> >
> > end of jessie version
> >
> > Of course its not going to work w/o a gateway, but wth?
> >
> > Need a coffee IV.
> >
> > Thanks Mark.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

But what's the purpose of having the gateway fields in interfaces if
not to to be reliant on the routing table?

But it's worth a shot, something like
route add default gw 192.168.71.1
It's simple enough to undo it with
route del default
to take it back out if it doesn't work.

I dunno, I haven't manually messed with routing tables in years.  They
can be  a bear on a laptop that gets moved between networks but since
I retired my laptop never goes anywhere.  Gateway is one of the fields
handled by DHCP but it looks like you don't use that.

Never liked DHCP much but I'm getting used to it since my phone (wifi
router) doesn't give me a choice.  I set up machine names in
/etc/hostname and those become visible over the air.  So I can ping,
ftp, ssh whatever upstairs, zero, hp but only as long as I keep my
phone bill paid and it all works.


On 9/24/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Sunday 24 September 2017 04:34:50 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at  route
>> -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of an
>> indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
>> because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
>
> As said before, traceroute is not installed.
>
> But I may have found a buglet.
>
> In the route -n output, no gateway has been assigned:
>
> root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse
> Iface
> 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 20200
> eth0
> 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 20200
> eth0
> 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00
> eth0
>
> yet in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 it is:
> allow-hotplug eth0
> auto eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.71.2/24
> gateway 192.168.71.1
> =
> Same stuff from the pi running jessie
> auto eth0
>
> # regular network for coyote.den
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.71.12
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.71.1
>
> And pi@picnc:~ $ route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse
> Iface
> 0.0.0.0 192.168.71.10.0.0.0 UG0  00
> eth0
> 192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00
> eth0
>
> end of jessie version
>
> Of course its not going to work w/o a gateway, but wth?
>
> Need a coffee IV.
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 07:39:34 Alan Corey wrote:

> There isn't some limit on number of machines that can connect coming
> from somewhere?  Could be political/economic or technical. I see wifi
> routers advertised as only working with n clients.
>
I think its been found, but no clue how to fix.  According to route -n, 
no gateway is being assigned, and of course its not going to get out 
of my local network w/o it.

root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 20200 eth0
169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 20200 eth0
192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0
(
But, the assignment is there in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0:
=
allow-hotplug eth0
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.2/24
gateway 192.168.71.1
==

So wth am I doing wrong, or have I found a bug?

Thanks Alan.

> Sent from my Motorola XT1505
> On Sep 24, 2017 4:35 AM, "Mark Morgan Lloyd" <
>
> markmll.debian-...@telemetry.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > So my local network is working as expected.  BUT:
> >> root@rock64:/etc# ping -c1 yahoo.com
> >> PING yahoo.com (98.138.253.109) 56(84) bytes of data.
> >>  From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host
> >> Unreachable
> >>
> >> Note that the dns request did resolve.
> >>
> >> But my dns requests are probably being answered by dnsmasq in the
> >> router. I cannot find anything in the routers copious settings
> >> (it's DD-WRT) that would prevent a connection, but it refuses to
> >> pass. I've tried several ipv4 addresses in that 192,168.nn block.
> >> No other machines, 5 more, on this local net are being denied
> >> network access.
> >>
> >> Ideas? I'm nearly out of hair. But its been slowly thinning for 82+
> >> years too so I can't blame it on this too loudly.
> >
> > I've only run Stretch briefly so far, in the context of trying to
> > find out whether USB boot worked (patchy, but might have been a
> > power issue).
> >
> > I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at 
> > route -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of an
> > indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
> > because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Morgan Lloyd
> > markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk
> >
> > [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or
> > colleagues]


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 04:34:50 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at  route
> -n and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of an
> indication of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually
> because the router isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.

As said before, traceroute is not installed.

But I may have found a buglet.

In the route -n output, no gateway has been assigned:

root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/network/interfaces.d# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 20200 eth0
169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 20200 eth0
192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0

yet in /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 it is:
allow-hotplug eth0
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.2/24
gateway 192.168.71.1
=
Same stuff from the pi running jessie
auto eth0

# regular network for coyote.den
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.12
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.71.1

And pi@picnc:~ $ route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
0.0.0.0 192.168.71.10.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0
192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0

end of jessie version

Of course its not going to work w/o a gateway, but wth?

Need a coffee IV.

Thanks Mark.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

There isn't some limit on number of machines that can connect coming from
somewhere?  Could be political/economic or technical. I see wifi routers
advertised as only working with n clients.

Sent from my Motorola XT1505
On Sep 24, 2017 4:35 AM, "Mark Morgan Lloyd" <
markmll.debian-...@telemetry.co.uk> wrote:

> On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> So my local network is working as expected.  BUT:
>> root@rock64:/etc# ping -c1 yahoo.com
>> PING yahoo.com (98.138.253.109) 56(84) bytes of data.
>>  From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
>>
>> Note that the dns request did resolve.
>>
>> But my dns requests are probably being answered by dnsmasq in the router.
>> I cannot find anything in the routers copious settings (it's DD-WRT)
>> that would prevent a connection, but it refuses to pass. I've tried
>> several ipv4 addresses in that 192,168.nn block. No other machines, 5
>> more, on this local net are being denied network access.
>>
>> Ideas? I'm nearly out of hair. But its been slowly thinning for 82+ years
>> too so I can't blame it on this too loudly.
>>
>
> I've only run Stretch briefly so far, in the context of trying to find out
> whether USB boot worked (patchy, but might have been a power issue).
>
> I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at  route -n
> and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of an indication of
> what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually because the router isn't
> NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.
>
> --
> Mark Morgan Lloyd
> markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk
>
> [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
>
>

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 23/09/17 20:00, Gene Heskett wrote:


So my local network is working as expected.  BUT:
root@rock64:/etc# ping -c1 yahoo.com
PING yahoo.com (98.138.253.109) 56(84) bytes of data.
 From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable

Note that the dns request did resolve.

But my dns requests are probably being answered by dnsmasq in the router.
I cannot find anything in the routers copious settings (it's DD-WRT)
that would prevent a connection, but it refuses to pass. I've tried
several ipv4 addresses in that 192,168.nn block. No other machines, 5
more, on this local net are being denied network access.

Ideas? I'm nearly out of hair. But its been slowly thinning for 82+ years
too so I can't blame it on this too loudly.


I've only run Stretch briefly so far, in the context of trying to find 
out whether USB boot worked (patchy, but might have been a power issue).


I'd suggest checking using  traceroute -I  and then looking at  route -n 
 and/or  ip route ls  which should give you a bit more of an indication 
of what's going on. IME this sort of thing is usually because the router 
isn't NATting the entire 192.168.x.x range.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 24 September 2017 00:28:34 Alan Corey wrote:

> > I'm out of ideas.  And obviously I cannot configure this rock64
> > until the network works.
>
> It sounds like only 1 machine doesn't work, your email got out after
> all.
>
> > and 4 other wheezy machines work as expected thru this
>
> So the rock64 has a chance of working.
>
> You don't have something blocking certain MAC addresses, maybe by not
> having added it to a table of allowed ones?  Access control list for
> the router maybe?
>
> You could try an arp -a but I don't think it'll work past the router.
> How about traceroute 8.8.8.8?  Sounds like it's not getting past the
> router for whatever reason so it'll probably map up to there and sit
> there doing * * *.  Reboot the router?  I don't know what it is in
> this case.  Traceroute shows me
>
> zero# traceroute 8.8.8.8
> traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>  1  192.168.43.1 (192.168.43.1)  4.728 ms  4.678 ms  4.171 ms
>  2  * * *
>  3  172.21.192.194 (172.21.192.194)  207.516 ms  226.515 ms  226.393
> ms 4  107.77.252.106 (107.77.252.106)  225.585 ms  338.241 ms  340.453
> ms 5  107.77.252.2 (107.77.252.2)  354.467 ms  375.499 ms  381.571 ms
> 6  107.77.254.116 (107.77.254.116)  381.075 ms  363.133 ms  363.692 ms
> 7  12.83.186.186 (12.83.186.186)  365.420 ms  363.726 ms  364.198 ms 8
>  12.83.185.153 (12.83.185.153)  390.378 ms  384.479 ms  392.005 ms 9 
> 12.122.28.125 (12.122.28.125)  405.034 ms  404.243 ms  401.788 ms 10 
> 12.122.141.221 (12.122.141.221)  423.779 ms  425.877 ms  444.198 ms 11
>  12.247.147.22 (12.247.147.22)  444.313 ms  447.099 ms *
> 12  108.170.249.161 (108.170.249.161)  448.599 ms * *
> 13  216.239.56.91 (216.239.56.91)  519.419 ms 108.170.228.14
> (108.170.228.14)  512.205 ms 216.239.54.229 (216.239.54.229)  509.196
> ms
> 14  209.85.254.185 (209.85.254.185)  517.461 ms
> google-public-dns-a.google.com (8.8.8.8)  502.167 ms  506.646 ms
> zero#
traceroute is not installed, but arp is: (and says the same this in a 
different language)
root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/init.d# traceroute shentel.net
-bash: traceroute: command not found
root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/init.d# arp -a
voipmonitor.wci.com (204.11.201.10) at  on eth0
*router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1) at 4c:e6:76:ad:34:0a [ether] on eth0
propjet.latt.net (204.2.134.164) at  on eth0
time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov (132.163.4.101) at  on eth0
mdnworldwide.com (66.135.44.92) at  on eth0
eterna.binary.net (216.229.0.49) at  on eth0
pacific.latt.net (204.2.134.163) at  on eth0
? (204.111.6.122) at  on eth0
soft-sea-01.servers.octoshape.net (50.22.155.163) at  on eth0
awesome.bytestacker.com (198.58.110.84) at  on eth0
time-c.nist.gov (129.6.15.30) at  on eth0
ntp.your.org (204.9.54.119) at  on eth0
time-b.nist.gov (129.6.15.29) at  on eth0
time-a.nist.gov (129.6.15.28) at  on eth0
2.time.dbsinet.com (199.223.248.100) at  on eth0
ha81.smatwebdesign.com (198.58.105.63) at  on eth0
155-94-238-29-host.hostbrew.com (155.94.238.29) at  on eth0
*coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3) at 00:1f:c6:62:fc:bb [ether] on eth0
119.189.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com (104.154.189.119) at 
 on eth0
hydrogen.constant.com (108.61.73.243) at  on eth0
time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov (132.163.4.102) at  on eth0
? (208.76.53.137) at  on eth0
frigg.fancube.com (154.16.245.246) at  on eth0
four0.fairy.mattnordhoff.net (66.228.59.187) at  on eth0
root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/init.d# 

And except for the local (*marked) machines, is "incomplete".
I just powerdown reset the router, no change.

I just noted the time was wrong, so I set /etc/timezone to 
America/New_York and restarted ntp. No diff so I commented the 
unreachable pool
s out and enabled it to listen on the local lan. DD-WRT is set to 
broadcast it, but thats made no diff either. At 2:41 local, it says:
root@rock64Sheldon:/etc/init.d# date
Sun Sep 24 06:41:34 UTC 2017

Which is UTC I think, its too late in the evening, so I'm headed back to 
the sack.  Maybe it will fix itself in the night?  Thanks Alan.

> Having fun with this ZeroW, which runs on about 1 watt.  And it's
> about 2 inches long.
>
> On 9/23/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 20:28:08 Alan Corey wrote:
> >> "Destination Host Unreachable" doesn't mean it didn't resolve, it
> >> can mean a cable's unplugged or your netmask isn't right or in 
> >> this case it's not getting outside your LAN for whatever reason. 
> >> Try pinging an outside IP like 8.8.8.8 (a public Google DNS
> >> server).  Ping and dns lookup are 2 different things.
> >
> > Ping fails to any address beyond the router, by name or address:
> > pinging the router:
> > root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping router
> > PING router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
> > 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
> > time=1.60 ms
> > 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
> > time=1.01 ms
> > 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
> > 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

> I'm out of ideas.  And obviously I cannot configure this rock64 until the
> network works.

It sounds like only 1 machine doesn't work, your email got out after all.

> and 4 other wheezy machines work as expected thru this

So the rock64 has a chance of working.

You don't have something blocking certain MAC addresses, maybe by not
having added it to a table of allowed ones?  Access control list for
the router maybe?

You could try an arp -a but I don't think it'll work past the router.
How about traceroute 8.8.8.8?  Sounds like it's not getting past the
router for whatever reason so it'll probably map up to there and sit
there doing * * *.  Reboot the router?  I don't know what it is in
this case.  Traceroute shows me

zero# traceroute 8.8.8.8
traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.43.1 (192.168.43.1)  4.728 ms  4.678 ms  4.171 ms
 2  * * *
 3  172.21.192.194 (172.21.192.194)  207.516 ms  226.515 ms  226.393 ms
 4  107.77.252.106 (107.77.252.106)  225.585 ms  338.241 ms  340.453 ms
 5  107.77.252.2 (107.77.252.2)  354.467 ms  375.499 ms  381.571 ms
 6  107.77.254.116 (107.77.254.116)  381.075 ms  363.133 ms  363.692 ms
 7  12.83.186.186 (12.83.186.186)  365.420 ms  363.726 ms  364.198 ms
 8  12.83.185.153 (12.83.185.153)  390.378 ms  384.479 ms  392.005 ms
 9  12.122.28.125 (12.122.28.125)  405.034 ms  404.243 ms  401.788 ms
10  12.122.141.221 (12.122.141.221)  423.779 ms  425.877 ms  444.198 ms
11  12.247.147.22 (12.247.147.22)  444.313 ms  447.099 ms *
12  108.170.249.161 (108.170.249.161)  448.599 ms * *
13  216.239.56.91 (216.239.56.91)  519.419 ms 108.170.228.14
(108.170.228.14)  512.205 ms 216.239.54.229 (216.239.54.229)  509.196
ms
14  209.85.254.185 (209.85.254.185)  517.461 ms
google-public-dns-a.google.com (8.8.8.8)  502.167 ms  506.646 ms
zero#

Having fun with this ZeroW, which runs on about 1 watt.  And it's
about 2 inches long.


On 9/23/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Saturday 23 September 2017 20:28:08 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> "Destination Host Unreachable" doesn't mean it didn't resolve, it can
>> mean a cable's unplugged or your netmask isn't right or in  this case
>> it's not getting outside your LAN for whatever reason.  Try pinging an
>> outside IP like 8.8.8.8 (a public Google DNS server).  Ping and dns
>> lookup are 2 different things.
>>
> Ping fails to any address beyond the router, by name or address:
> pinging the router:
> root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping router
> PING router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
> time=1.60 ms
> 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
> time=1.01 ms
> 64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
> time=1.00 ms
>
> This machine:
> root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping coyote.coyote.den
> PING coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
> time=0.878 ms
> 64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
> time=0.868 ms
> 64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
> time=0.853 ms
>
> my ISP:
> root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping shentel.net
> PING shentel.net (204.111.6.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
> From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
> From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
> From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable
>
> googles dns:
> root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping 8.8.8.8
> PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
> From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
> From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
> From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable
>
> I can't see anything in the router settings that would block an outside
> the lan address, and 4 other wheezy machines work as expected thru this
> router.
>
> I'm out of ideas.  And obviously I cannot configure this rock64 until the
> network works.
>
> Humm, iptables is running, and I've not messed with that since 15 years
> ago, don't use it on the local lan net. Killed it and unloaded the
> modules. local ping still works, outside still dead.  Restarted the
> networking, which did not restart iptables or load its modules, but the
> bahavior is unchanged.
>
> Bedtime on this side of the pond. Tomorrow is a new day.
>
> Thanks Alan.
>
>> On 9/23/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 13:28:51 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>> >> On 23/09/17 16:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>> >> >> On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >>  I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
>> >>  adapter's OK: what command are you using?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The usual syntax:
>> >> >>> dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd
>> >> >>> card copying,
>> >> >>

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 20:28:08 Alan Corey wrote:

> "Destination Host Unreachable" doesn't mean it didn't resolve, it can
> mean a cable's unplugged or your netmask isn't right or in  this case
> it's not getting outside your LAN for whatever reason.  Try pinging an
> outside IP like 8.8.8.8 (a public Google DNS server).  Ping and dns
> lookup are 2 different things.
>
Ping fails to any address beyond the router, by name or address:
pinging the router:
root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping router
PING router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 
time=1.60 ms
64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 
time=1.01 ms
64 bytes from router.coyote.den (192.168.71.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 
time=1.00 ms

This machine:
root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping coyote.coyote.den
PING coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 
time=0.878 ms
64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 
time=0.868 ms
64 bytes from coyote.coyote.den (192.168.71.3): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 
time=0.853 ms

my ISP:
root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping shentel.net
PING shentel.net (204.111.6.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.71.2 (192.168.71.2) icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable

googles dns:
root@rock64Sheldon:~# ping 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.71.2 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable

I can't see anything in the router settings that would block an outside 
the lan address, and 4 other wheezy machines work as expected thru this 
router.

I'm out of ideas.  And obviously I cannot configure this rock64 until the 
network works.

Humm, iptables is running, and I've not messed with that since 15 years 
ago, don't use it on the local lan net. Killed it and unloaded the 
modules. local ping still works, outside still dead.  Restarted the 
networking, which did not restart iptables or load its modules, but the 
bahavior is unchanged.

Bedtime on this side of the pond. Tomorrow is a new day.  

Thanks Alan.

> On 9/23/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 13:28:51 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> >> On 23/09/17 16:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> >> >> On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>  I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
> >>  adapter's OK: what command are you using?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The usual syntax:
> >> >>> dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd
> >> >>> card copying,
> >> >>
> >> >> Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.
> >> >>
> >> >>> since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared
> >> >>> size in dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out
> >> >>> copying a pny 32GB to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster,
> >> >>> has the same problem & pitches a fit when it can't find room to
> >> >>> put the last 10 sectors.  I've had poor luck with sandisk
> >> >>> anything though. pny, samsung is good stuff. So I bought pny
> >> >>> last night.
> >> >>
> >> >> The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've
> >> >> had stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one
> >> >> badged Canyon which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm
> >> >> no longer trying to use an adapter which is universally regarded
> >> >> as being unwise.
> >> >
> >> > I have 2 vivitar's, both with microsd slots. They work 100% when
> >> > burning an image file from armbian jessie so far.
> >> >
> >> >> You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on
> >> >> a device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use
> >> >> bs=128M
> >> >
> >> > I'll give that a shot.
> >> >
> >> >> Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything.
> >> >> That 5k in particular could be worse than useless since it
> >> >> doesn't correspond to a physical or logical block size.
> >> >
> >> > no two sd cards, even from the same maker, are exactly the same
> >> > size due to bad block replacements before they are even blister
> >> > packed for sale. This is the exact reason they ship stripped
> >> > images that require you resize them on the machine they will live
> >> > in. What we dearly need is a utility to generate the iso shrunken
> >> > to only that which is actually used.  Or do we have such a
> >> > critter and I don't know about it?
> >>
> >> I know all that, and I've spent a lot of time talking to these
> >> things directly, measuring times, checking pattern-sensitivity and
> >> so on.
> >>
> >> And I'd remind you that while we're using similar hardware, you're

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

"Destination Host Unreachable" doesn't mean it didn't resolve, it can
mean a cable's unplugged or your netmask isn't right or in  this case
it's not getting outside your LAN for whatever reason.  Try pinging an
outside IP like 8.8.8.8 (a public Google DNS server).  Ping and dns
lookup are 2 different things.

On 9/23/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Saturday 23 September 2017 13:28:51 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On 23/09/17 16:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>> >> On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>  I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
>>  adapter's OK: what command are you using?
>> >>>
>> >>> The usual syntax:
>> >>> dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card
>> >>> copying,
>> >>
>> >> Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.
>> >>
>> >>> since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size
>> >>> in dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a
>> >>> pny 32GB to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same
>> >>> problem & pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10
>> >>> sectors.  I've had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny,
>> >>> samsung is good stuff. So I bought pny last night.
>> >>
>> >> The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've had
>> >> stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one badged
>> >> Canyon which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm no longer
>> >> trying to use an adapter which is universally regarded as being
>> >> unwise.
>> >
>> > I have 2 vivitar's, both with microsd slots. They work 100% when
>> > burning an image file from armbian jessie so far.
>> >
>> >> You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on a
>> >> device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use bs=128M
>> >
>> > I'll give that a shot.
>> >
>> >> Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything. That
>> >> 5k in particular could be worse than useless since it doesn't
>> >> correspond to a physical or logical block size.
>> >
>> > no two sd cards, even from the same maker, are exactly the same size
>> > due to bad block replacements before they are even blister packed
>> > for sale. This is the exact reason they ship stripped images that
>> > require you resize them on the machine they will live in. What we
>> > dearly need is a utility to generate the iso shrunken to only that
>> > which is actually used.  Or do we have such a critter and I don't
>> > know about it?
>>
>> I know all that, and I've spent a lot of time talking to these things
>> directly, measuring times, checking pattern-sensitivity and so on.
>>
>> And I'd remind you that while we're using similar hardware, you're
>> having problems, I'm not. What does that suggest to you? :-)
>>
>> >> Zeroing the target device first might help, i.e. copying from
>> >> /dev/zero
>> >>
>> >> If the source device has been partitioned to be full, then shrink
>> >> first the top filesystem and then the top partition to make sure
>> >> that what you're copying is substantially smaller than the target
>> >> device. Alternatively a useful hack is to set up your source device
>> >> with an extra partition at the top, e.g. FAT just in case you want
>> >> to move data around between OSes, then you can delete the top
>> >> filesystem and partition before using dd and be confident that you
>> >> won't be doing an incomplete copy.
>> >
>> > Seems like something that could be scripted.
>>
>> Yes, for example by the script that Raspbian runs on its first
>> startup.
>>
>> Don't fool around, just make sure that the valid data on the source
>> card is substantially smaller- and I mean 100s of Mb, not a few Kb-
>> than the destination card.
>>
>> But my suspicion is that you're doing something wrong like trying to
>> copy one partition when you should be copying all partitions. But
>> since you won't give us an example of the command you're using we
>> can't be certain either way on that.
>
> I did, but it was for dd. I have sincefound piclone will run ok, if
> itsthe first thing after a reboot. Dirty the memory with something else
> and its dead.  So I now have the terrabyte hd cloned from the base of
> the card. If I ever get it to boot from it, expand the filesystem to a
> terrabyte.
>
> Next problem, I installed the minimal stretch to a 32GB card, and if
> don't think it resized that 230 mb image, but I'm logged into it, so df
> gives me:
> rock64@rock64:~$ df
> Filesystem 1K-blocks   Used Available Use% Mounted on
> udev 2007908  0   2007908   0% /dev
> tmpfs 401960   5512396448   2% /run
> /dev/mmcblk1p7  30574584 931612  28360464   4% /
> tmpfs2009784  0   2009784   0% /dev/shm
> tmpfs   5120  4  5116   1% /run/lock
> tmpfs2009784  0   2009784   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> /dev/mmcblk1p6102182  41636 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 13:28:51 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 23/09/17 16:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> >> On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
>  I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
>  adapter's OK: what command are you using?
> >>>
> >>> The usual syntax:
> >>> dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card
> >>> copying,
> >>
> >> Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.
> >>
> >>> since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size
> >>> in dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a
> >>> pny 32GB to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same
> >>> problem & pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10
> >>> sectors.  I've had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny,
> >>> samsung is good stuff. So I bought pny last night.
> >>
> >> The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've had
> >> stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one badged
> >> Canyon which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm no longer
> >> trying to use an adapter which is universally regarded as being
> >> unwise.
> >
> > I have 2 vivitar's, both with microsd slots. They work 100% when
> > burning an image file from armbian jessie so far.
> >
> >> You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on a
> >> device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use bs=128M
> >
> > I'll give that a shot.
> >
> >> Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything. That
> >> 5k in particular could be worse than useless since it doesn't
> >> correspond to a physical or logical block size.
> >
> > no two sd cards, even from the same maker, are exactly the same size
> > due to bad block replacements before they are even blister packed
> > for sale. This is the exact reason they ship stripped images that
> > require you resize them on the machine they will live in. What we
> > dearly need is a utility to generate the iso shrunken to only that
> > which is actually used.  Or do we have such a critter and I don't
> > know about it?
>
> I know all that, and I've spent a lot of time talking to these things
> directly, measuring times, checking pattern-sensitivity and so on.
>
> And I'd remind you that while we're using similar hardware, you're
> having problems, I'm not. What does that suggest to you? :-)
>
> >> Zeroing the target device first might help, i.e. copying from
> >> /dev/zero
> >>
> >> If the source device has been partitioned to be full, then shrink
> >> first the top filesystem and then the top partition to make sure
> >> that what you're copying is substantially smaller than the target
> >> device. Alternatively a useful hack is to set up your source device
> >> with an extra partition at the top, e.g. FAT just in case you want
> >> to move data around between OSes, then you can delete the top
> >> filesystem and partition before using dd and be confident that you
> >> won't be doing an incomplete copy.
> >
> > Seems like something that could be scripted.
>
> Yes, for example by the script that Raspbian runs on its first
> startup.
>
> Don't fool around, just make sure that the valid data on the source
> card is substantially smaller- and I mean 100s of Mb, not a few Kb-
> than the destination card.
>
> But my suspicion is that you're doing something wrong like trying to
> copy one partition when you should be copying all partitions. But
> since you won't give us an example of the command you're using we
> can't be certain either way on that.

I did, but it was for dd. I have sincefound piclone will run ok, if 
itsthe first thing after a reboot. Dirty the memory with something else 
and its dead.  So I now have the terrabyte hd cloned from the base of 
the card. If I ever get it to boot from it, expand the filesystem to a 
terrabyte.

Next problem, I installed the minimal stretch to a 32GB card, and if 
don't think it resized that 230 mb image, but I'm logged into it, so df 
gives me:
rock64@rock64:~$ df
Filesystem 1K-blocks   Used Available Use% Mounted on
udev 2007908  0   2007908   0% /dev
tmpfs 401960   5512396448   2% /run
/dev/mmcblk1p7  30574584 931612  28360464   4% /
tmpfs2009784  0   2009784   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5120  4  5116   1% /run/lock
tmpfs2009784  0   2009784   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mmcblk1p6102182  41636 60546  41% /boot/efi
tmpfs 401956  0401956   0% /run/user/1000

So no, its not needing expansion, the whole card is there.

I've carved up a /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 file with the usual 
entries, looks like this:
rock64@rock64:~$ cat /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0
#allow-hotplug eth0
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.NN.2
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.NN.1

ditto, I made a real /etc/resolv.conf, looks like this:

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 23/09/17 16:45, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:


On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:

I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
adapter's OK: what command are you using?


The usual syntax:
dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card
copying,


Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.


since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size in
dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a pny
32GB to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same
problem & pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10
sectors.  I've had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny,
samsung is good stuff. So I bought pny last night.


The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've had
stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one badged
Canyon which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm no longer
trying to use an adapter which is universally regarded as being
unwise.


I have 2 vivitar's, both with microsd slots. They work 100% when burning
an image file from armbian jessie so far.

You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on a
device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use bs=128M


I'll give that a shot.


Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything. That 5k
in particular could be worse than useless since it doesn't correspond
to a physical or logical block size.


no two sd cards, even from the same maker, are exactly the same size due
to bad block replacements before they are even blister packed for sale.
This is the exact reason they ship stripped images that require you
resize them on the machine they will live in. What we dearly need is a
utility to generate the iso shrunken to only that which is actually
used.  Or do we have such a critter and I don't know about it?


I know all that, and I've spent a lot of time talking to these things 
directly, measuring times, checking pattern-sensitivity and so on.


And I'd remind you that while we're using similar hardware, you're 
having problems, I'm not. What does that suggest to you? :-)



Zeroing the target device first might help, i.e. copying from
/dev/zero

If the source device has been partitioned to be full, then shrink
first the top filesystem and then the top partition to make sure that
what you're copying is substantially smaller than the target device.
Alternatively a useful hack is to set up your source device with an
extra partition at the top, e.g. FAT just in case you want to move
data around between OSes, then you can delete the top filesystem and
partition before using dd and be confident that you won't be doing an
incomplete copy.


Seems like something that could be scripted.


Yes, for example by the script that Raspbian runs on its first startup.

Don't fool around, just make sure that the valid data on the source card 
is substantially smaller- and I mean 100s of Mb, not a few Kb- than the 
destination card.


But my suspicion is that you're doing something wrong like trying to 
copy one partition when you should be copying all partitions. But since 
you won't give us an example of the command you're using we can't be 
certain either way on that.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 12:26:23 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
> >> adapter's OK: what command are you using?
> >
> > The usual syntax:
> > dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card
> > copying,
>
> Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.
>
> > since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size in
> > dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a pny
> > 32GB to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same
> > problem & pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10
> > sectors.  I've had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny,
> > samsung is good stuff. So I bought pny last night.
>
> The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've had
> stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one badged
> Canyon which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm no longer
> trying to use an adapter which is universally regarded as being
> unwise.

I have 2 vivitar's, both with microsd slots. They work 100% when burning 
an image file from armbian jessie so far.
> You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on a
> device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use bs=128M
>
I'll give that a shot.

> Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything. That 5k
> in particular could be worse than useless since it doesn't correspond
> to a physical or logical block size.

no two sd cards, even from the same maker, are exactly the same size due 
to bad block replacements before they are even blister packed for sale.  
This is the exact reason they ship stripped images that require you 
resize them on the machine they will live in. What we dearly need is a 
utility to generate the iso shrunken to only that which is actually 
used.  Or do we have such a critter and I don't know about it?

> Zeroing the target device first might help, i.e. copying from
> /dev/zero
>
> If the source device has been partitioned to be full, then shrink
> first the top filesystem and then the top partition to make sure that
> what you're copying is substantially smaller than the target device.
> Alternatively a useful hack is to set up your source device with an
> extra partition at the top, e.g. FAT just in case you want to move
> data around between OSes, then you can delete the top filesystem and
> partition before using dd and be confident that you won't be doing an
> incomplete copy.

Seems like something that could be scripted.

Thanks Mark.

I'm going to get some legal clothes on, and go write that starter image 
to one or more of these fresh cards. bbl.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 23/09/17 15:00, Gene Heskett wrote:


I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
adapter's OK: what command are you using?


The usual syntax:
dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card copying,


Tell us the /exact/ command you're using.


since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size in
dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a pny 32GB
to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same problem &
pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10 sectors.  I've
had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny, samsung is good stuff.
So I bought pny last night.


The first thing I'd say is that almost all of the problems I've had 
stopped when I changed the card reader. I'm now using one badged Canyon 
which specifically has a Micro-SD slot, i.e. I'm no longer trying to use 
an adapter which is universally regarded as being unwise.


You don't need that bs=512 and trying a sector-by-sector copy on a 
device that uses far larger blocks might be unwise. I use bs=128M


Don't give dd an explicit block count, let it copy everything. That 5k 
in particular could be worse than useless since it doesn't correspond to 
a physical or logical block size.


Zeroing the target device first might help, i.e. copying from /dev/zero

If the source device has been partitioned to be full, then shrink first 
the top filesystem and then the top partition to make sure that what 
you're copying is substantially smaller than the target device. 
Alternatively a useful hack is to set up your source device with an 
extra partition at the top, e.g. FAT just in case you want to move data 
around between OSes, then you can delete the top filesystem and 
partition before using dd and be confident that you won't be doing an 
incomplete copy.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

Last first, your fstab and your /boot/cmdline.txt have to be pointing
to the partition you want to boot.  Those were the only changes I had
to make when I picloned my sd to my hard drive.  By default they point
to /dev/mmcblk0, change them to something like /dev/sda.  The ones on
the hard drive.

I'm not sure why you have color depth issues, just about everything
I've seen can run 24 bit color just fine.  I edit photos on most of
mine.  X has some capability to mix color depths, so there could be a
16 bit window on a 24 bit screen.  Try xwininfo if you have it, it
will tell you stuff like this on whatever window you click on first:

xwininfo: Window id: 0x802 "rxvt"
  Absolute upper-left X:  135
  Absolute upper-left Y:  56
  Relative upper-left X:  1
  Relative upper-left Y:  30
  Width: 578
  Height: 340
  Depth: 24
  Visual: 0x22
  Visual Class: TrueColor
  Border width: 0
  Class: InputOutput
  Colormap: 0x21 (installed)
  Bit Gravity State: ForgetGravity
  Window Gravity State: NorthWestGravity
  Backing Store State: NotUseful
  Save Under State: no
  Map State: IsViewable
  Override Redirect State: no
  Corners:  +135+56  -787+56  -787-404  +135-404
  -geometry 80x24+134+26
That was a window in a vnc session and I could copy and paste it into
Firefox in OpenBSD.  copy/paste to/from vnc works about 70% of the
time

VNC is also called remote framebuffer  A server makes a connection to
X then forwards it over a network connection to a client that displays
it.  There are clients for windows and mac, there's even a java applet
that's a client so you can have a gui desktop on one machine in a web
browser on another.  It's been around for years so it's pretty stable.
No security or encryption, it's not safe to use raw vnc over the
internet, but you can  tunnel it through ssh.  Different versions have
different compression schemes, that gets negotiated between server and
client.  Keyboard and mouse activity go through it, there's no sound.
Color depth is a little muddy because less colors mean more speed,
sometimes 256 are plenty, so it's 1 byte per pixel instead of 2 or 3.
You don't usually have a lot of control over it.

What I have on this pi is:
ii  libvncclient0:armhf0.9.9+dfsg2-6.1+deb8u2
  armhfAPI to write one's own vnc server -
client library
rc  libvncserver0:armhf0.9.9+dfsg2-6.1+deb8u2
  armhfAPI to write one's own vnc server
ii  tightvncserver 1.3.9-6.5
  armhfvirtual network computing server
software
ii  x11vnc-data0.9.13-1.2
  all  data files for x11vnc
ii  xtightvncviewer1.3.9-6.5
  armhfvirtual network computing client
software for X

You probably don't care about the API stuff, you just need a server
and a client.  Tightvnc was a big deal because it used compression,
now it's just one of a dozen or so protocols that the server and
client agree on.  There's an order to the desirability, the client and
server pick the highest one they can both use but they can fall back
to lower ones.  So essentially a vnc client is a vnc client, details
don't matter.  It's remote control yet not: vnc makes its own
connection to the X server so what's happening remotely isn't visible
or accesible on the local machine other than cpu load.  You can't open
a document locally then see it or edit it remotely, you'd need to open
it again.

Your cnc stuff must be taking up the first 9 X connections, that's why
it's so demanding of speed. Most people only have 1 or 2 displays.
Seems like you might be better off with a modern quad or octal core
i386/amd64 machine with a lot of resources.  A gaming machine
essentially with enough cpu (and gpu) to be doing things like 3d
graphics, lots of video ram.

Something's odd here, if I do echo $DISPLAY in an ssh window it's not
even defined yet you're using up yours.  In local rxvt/xterms they all
read the same thing of :0.  I'm not sure it matters.  In fvwm if you
right click on the root window it shows other applications you might
want to switch to.  I've got stuff in 6 of 9 panes of my pager,
connections to 3 other machines.  This is on an old Pentium 4 machine
circa 2002, a Dell gx270.

> restricted things like running synaptic-pkexec to a local keyboard and
Synaptic sounds like a laptop touchpad driver (or a debian application
manager).  I'm not sure that will work in a non-local situation.

> So, tell me more about vnc please.  If it can bypass this crap, and let
> me do gfx stuff as root using sudo, I'll see if I can make it work.

I don't use sudo much, I just log in as root.  I'm not saying everyone
should but I've been doing it for 20 years, old habits die hard.  I
haven't screwed up anything I haven't been able to fix, and I'm behind
a firewall.  Pretty good with regedit in windows too, used to get in
there and 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Jonathan Wilson]

On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 22:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings;
> 
> Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting from, to 
> another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding up with 
> nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
> 
> Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi several 
> hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer showing 
> continuous activity.
> 
> Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim backups 
> of these limited lifetime sd cards?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I used to use dd quite a lot, usually to a file (from a disk) as I was
playling with virtual boxes quite a bit. It "may" be that the dd is not
from the disk, but is from a partition... or some other variation on the
theme (1). Also, its worth typing sync after the dd to make sure that
all disk access (write) is coalesced. If I recall correctly, once the
sync returns to the command line then there are no more pending writes
so even pulling the SD (not correctly un-mounting/ejecting it) shouldn't
corrupt it. 


(1) When dd'ing between physical drives I always made sure they were
matched size wise, which was probably not required but I had it in my
head that dd'ing a drive including the partition table to a larger sized
drive would cause issues. Where the drives were unmatched I'd set the
new partition(s) manually, and then dd the partitions one at a time and
I always made sure the too partition was set up to be the same size as
the from partition (even if the location differed) and then do any
re-sizing of the cloned partition & file system upwards afterwards. As I
say, possibly not required in some/all cases but gut feelings are hard
to overcome as I had it in my head - something to do with backup tables
set at the far end of partitions.

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 10:58:47 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 23 September 2017 07:43:14 Jonathan Wilson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 22:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings;
> > >
> > > Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting
> > > from, to another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding
> > > up with nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
> > >
> > > Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi
> > > several hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer
> > > showing continuous activity.
> > >
> > > Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim
> > > backups of these limited lifetime sd cards?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > I used to use dd quite a lot, usually to a file (from a disk) as I
> > was playling with virtual boxes quite a bit. It "may" be that the dd
> > is not from the disk, but is from a partition... or some other
> > variation on the theme (1). Also, its worth typing sync after the dd
> > to make sure that all disk access (write) is coalesced. If I recall
> > correctly, once the sync returns to the command line then there are
> > no more pending writes so even pulling the SD (not correctly
> > un-mounting/ejecting it) shouldn't corrupt it.
>
> All followed and understood.
>
> > (1) When dd'ing between physical drives I always made sure they were
> > matched size wise, which was probably not required but I had it in
> > my head that dd'ing a drive including the partition table to a
> > larger sized drive would cause issues. Where the drives were
> > unmatched I'd set the new partition(s) manually, and then dd the
> > partitions one at a time and I always made sure the too partition
> > was set up to be the same size as the from partition (even if the
> > location differed) and then do any re-sizing of the cloned partition
> > & file system upwards afterwards. As I say, possibly not required in
> > some/all cases but gut feelings are hard to overcome as I had it in
> > my head - something to do with backup tables set at the far end of
> > partitions.
>
> humm... backup inodes are generally at 8k offsets from the starters
> location, or so I've read.
>
> And why, when I click on reply to list, do I get blank to: lines and
> have to manually copy them from the incoming email?  Its a right pita.

My problem, I didn't have folder marked as containing a mailing list.  
Fixed, sorry for the noise.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 07:43:14 Jonathan Wilson wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 22:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings;
> >
> > Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting from,
> > to another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding up with
> > nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
> >
> > Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi
> > several hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer
> > showing continuous activity.
> >
> > Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim
> > backups of these limited lifetime sd cards?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I used to use dd quite a lot, usually to a file (from a disk) as I was
> playling with virtual boxes quite a bit. It "may" be that the dd is
> not from the disk, but is from a partition... or some other variation
> on the theme (1). Also, its worth typing sync after the dd to make
> sure that all disk access (write) is coalesced. If I recall correctly,
> once the sync returns to the command line then there are no more
> pending writes so even pulling the SD (not correctly
> un-mounting/ejecting it) shouldn't corrupt it.
>
All followed and understood.
>
> (1) When dd'ing between physical drives I always made sure they were
> matched size wise, which was probably not required but I had it in my
> head that dd'ing a drive including the partition table to a larger
> sized drive would cause issues. Where the drives were unmatched I'd
> set the new partition(s) manually, and then dd the partitions one at a
> time and I always made sure the too partition was set up to be the
> same size as the from partition (even if the location differed) and
> then do any re-sizing of the cloned partition & file system upwards
> afterwards. As I say, possibly not required in some/all cases but gut
> feelings are hard to overcome as I had it in my head - something to do
> with backup tables set at the far end of partitions.

humm... backup inodes are generally at 8k offsets from the starters 
location, or so I've read.

And why, when I click on reply to list, do I get blank to: lines and have 
to manually copy them from the incoming email?  Its a right pita.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 04:36:49 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> On 23/09/17 05:45, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Months at a time here, but anytime I need to do anything as root
> > that involves more than ncurses graphics, I have to go to the
> > machine and do it there, and its a stand-up job with very poor gfx
> > due to the pi's
>
> In that case investigate what's stopping you from logging in directly
> as root. It's probably a setting in sshd_config and another in the
> display manager's configuration file.
>
> Otherwise if you've got an SSH session as non-root you should be able
> to run arbitrary non-root X11 programs over it i.e.
> tunelling/forwarding X11 over SSH. Once that is working, you should be
> able to use a desktop-specific graphical variant of sudo to run a
> program as root: in the case of KDE it's kdesudo. Or alternatively, in
> an SSH session try sudo -E someprogram  which works in many cases.
>
Thats something I haven't tried, I'll check the sudo man page, thanks.

> I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard
> adapter's OK: what command are you using?

The usual syntax:
dd  if=somefile bs=512 of=somedevice, and in the case of sd card copying, 
since no 2 are alike so I usually look at the src's declared size in 
dmesg and set count=that-5k so it doesn't error out copying a pny 32GB 
to a Sandisk 32GB.  Etcher, which is faster, has the same problem & 
pitches a fit when it can't find room to put the last 10 sectors.  I've 
had poor luck with sandisk anything though. pny, samsung is good stuff.
So I bought pny last night.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 23/09/17 05:45, Gene Heskett wrote:


Months at a time here, but anytime I need to do anything as root that
involves more than ncurses graphics, I have to go to the machine and do
it there, and its a stand-up job with very poor gfx due to the pi's


In that case investigate what's stopping you from logging in directly as 
root. It's probably a setting in sshd_config and another in the display 
manager's configuration file.


Otherwise if you've got an SSH session as non-root you should be able to 
run arbitrary non-root X11 programs over it i.e. tunelling/forwarding 
X11 over SSH. Once that is working, you should be able to use a 
desktop-specific graphical variant of sudo to run a program as root: in 
the case of KDE it's kdesudo. Or alternatively, in an SSH session try 
sudo -E someprogram  which works in many cases.


I've never had problems with dd provided that the USB->SDcard adapter's 
OK: what command are you using?


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 September 2017 00:12:11 Alan Corey wrote:

> I don't know, it just works for me.  Even over VNC, I just tried it
> from vncviewer on an OpenBSD machine.  The "copy from device" is blank
> until I click the down arrow on it, then it finds /dev/mmcblk0.  I'm
> running it on the machine that's running tightvncserver which I'm
> logged into.  I use VNC a lot, I've maybe gotten a remote X connection
> to work a couple times years ago.  The wrong authentication thing,
> have you looked at the xhost man page?  I remember sometimes you have
> to do
>   xhost +localhost
> and any remote machines you want to connect from have to be added in a
> similar way.  With vnc you just need to set up the password with
> vncpasswd.  Then you type like tightvncserver in a terminal window to
> start it.  From the remote machine you type vncviewer and the IP or
> machine name:display.  Server and client software names may be
> different from mine, you need one of each.  I've even had an android
> vnc client that worked over wifi from a phone.  Wheezy or Jessie
> shouldn't matter, remote X has been around for like 35 years.  Since
> dialup modems have been around.
>
> Why are you at localhost:11?  Usually it's localhost:0.  Are you
> logged in from 10 other machines too or something?  Try 'echo
> $DISPLAY' and see what it says, mine says :0.  Ooops, the Pi says
>
I am logged in as "ssh -Y pi@picnc" with my usual user passwd.
The 1st such login reports:
pi@picnc:~ $ echo $DISPLAY
localhost:10.0

And a 2nd such login reports:
pi@picnc:~ $ echo $DISPLAY
localhost:11.0

xhost + has been executed on all machines.

> :1.0, OpenBSD says :0.  vnc display numbers are similar but not
>
> compatible as far as I know with X  connections.
>
> I just did (on a pi):
> pi2# xhost +192.168.7 and got
> 192.168.7 being added to access control list
> But when I try xterm -display 192.18.0.7:1 in an ssh window to the pi
> from openbsd I get crap about running as root and it refuses.  There
> might be a way to put a username in there like you can ssh to
> user@machine or in mc you cd to ftp://user:pass@machine.  15 years ago
> my girlfriend at the time thought it was cool so we did it a couple
> times.  VNC I've used a lot more.  Daily just about.  Sometime it's
> open for a week at a time.
>
Months at a time here, but anytime I need to do anything as root that 
involves more than ncurses graphics, I have to go to the machine and do 
it there, and its a stand-up job with very poor gfx due to the pi's 
limited color pallate.  Hard on the old mans back, and the pain 
distracts me from the job I went there to do. Not your fault, but 
somebody apparently decided it was a security risk, so they have 
restricted things like running synaptic-pkexec to a local keyboard and 
monitor only thing. What it really is is a right pain in the old mans 
back and legs.

So, tell me more about vnc please.  If it can bypass this crap, and let 
me do gfx stuff as root using sudo, I'll see if I can make it work.

The puzzling part is that the limited colors but otherwise full power of 
the pi's gfx engine can run LinuxCNC over this X11 connection well 
except for video rendering speed, its slowed to around 3 or 4 fps over 
the network connection. I have lcnc configured such that I can power it 
up and run it from here, but if I see a potential crash about to occur 
in the backplot, its already happened at the machine. Thats hard on 
tooling as it usually will break the tool or its carbide insert, at 
several dollars a copy, so that isn't done.

> On 9/22/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Friday 22 September 2017 22:14:48 Alan Corey wrote:
> >> I thought piclone was great for that.  With a couple manual edits
> >> you can even clone an sd to a hard drive.

I'd love to do that too as I've a terrabyte drive that is only being used 
for swap plugged into the pi. I have 2 other partitions setup, and I 
think copied, but the pi is unable to find it and boot from it.

> > I have never been able to make it work. No helpfull manpage, nor
> > does it have a help option that I've found other than what you get
> > by clicking on help when run as 1st user. Run as 1st user, it cannot
> > find a target device.  The help there says "the card its booted
> > from" as if it might be a fixed address to pull from, in which case
> > why the ghosted out source selection buttons?
> >
> > And of course I cannot do anything from here as root via sudo
> > because localhost:11 is not a valid x11 screen.
> >
> > I have asked how to fix that, several times, but without a solution.
> > That pi is the only jessie machine, 3 other wheezy machines on this
> > network Just Work(TM) in the exact same situation.  Whats with
> > jessie that it won't?  Or with wheezy if the refusal is here?
> >
> > From that terminal screen on this wheezy box:
> > pi@picnc:~ $ sudo piclone
> > X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
> >
> > (piclone:2001): Gtk-WARNING **: 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

I don't know, it just works for me.  Even over VNC, I just tried it
from vncviewer on an OpenBSD machine.  The "copy from device" is blank
until I click the down arrow on it, then it finds /dev/mmcblk0.  I'm
running it on the machine that's running tightvncserver which I'm
logged into.  I use VNC a lot, I've maybe gotten a remote X connection
to work a couple times years ago.  The wrong authentication thing,
have you looked at the xhost man page?  I remember sometimes you have
to do
  xhost +localhost
and any remote machines you want to connect from have to be added in a
similar way.  With vnc you just need to set up the password with
vncpasswd.  Then you type like tightvncserver in a terminal window to
start it.  From the remote machine you type vncviewer and the IP or
machine name:display.  Server and client software names may be
different from mine, you need one of each.  I've even had an android
vnc client that worked over wifi from a phone.  Wheezy or Jessie
shouldn't matter, remote X has been around for like 35 years.  Since
dialup modems have been around.

Why are you at localhost:11?  Usually it's localhost:0.  Are you
logged in from 10 other machines too or something?  Try 'echo
$DISPLAY' and see what it says, mine says :0.  Ooops, the Pi says
:1.0, OpenBSD says :0.  vnc display numbers are similar but not
compatible as far as I know with X  connections.

I just did (on a pi):
pi2# xhost +192.168.7 and got
192.168.7 being added to access control list
But when I try xterm -display 192.18.0.7:1 in an ssh window to the pi
from openbsd I get crap about running as root and it refuses.  There
might be a way to put a username in there like you can ssh to
user@machine or in mc you cd to ftp://user:pass@machine.  15 years ago
my girlfriend at the time thought it was cool so we did it a couple
times.  VNC I've used a lot more.  Daily just about.  Sometime it's
open for a week at a time.


On 9/22/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Friday 22 September 2017 22:14:48 Alan Corey wrote:
>
>> I thought piclone was great for that.  With a couple manual edits you
>> can even clone an sd to a hard drive.
>
> I have never been able to make it work. No helpfull manpage, nor does it
> have a help option that I've found other than what you get by clicking
> on help when run as 1st user. Run as 1st user, it cannot find a target
> device.  The help there says "the card its booted from" as if it might
> be a fixed address to pull from, in which case why the ghosted out
> source selection buttons?
>
> And of course I cannot do anything from here as root via sudo because
> localhost:11 is not a valid x11 screen.
>
> I have asked how to fix that, several times, but without a solution.
> That pi is the only jessie machine, 3 other wheezy machines on this
> network Just Work(TM) in the exact same situation.  Whats with jessie
> that it won't?  Or with wheezy if the refusal is here?
>
> From that terminal screen on this wheezy box:
> pi@picnc:~ $ sudo piclone
> X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
>
> (piclone:2001): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: localhost:11.0
> pi@picnc:~ $
>
> Thanks Alan.
>
>> On 9/22/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> > Greetings;
>> >
>> > Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting from,
>> > to another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding up with
>> > nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
>> >
>> > Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi
>> > several hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer
>> > showing continuous activity.
>> >
>> > Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim
>> > backups of these limited lifetime sd cards?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> > --
>> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> > Genes Web page 
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 22 September 2017 22:14:48 Alan Corey wrote:

> I thought piclone was great for that.  With a couple manual edits you
> can even clone an sd to a hard drive.

I have never been able to make it work. No helpfull manpage, nor does it 
have a help option that I've found other than what you get by clicking 
on help when run as 1st user. Run as 1st user, it cannot find a target 
device.  The help there says "the card its booted from" as if it might 
be a fixed address to pull from, in which case why the ghosted out 
source selection buttons?

And of course I cannot do anything from here as root via sudo because 
localhost:11 is not a valid x11 screen.

I have asked how to fix that, several times, but without a solution.  
That pi is the only jessie machine, 3 other wheezy machines on this 
network Just Work(TM) in the exact same situation.  Whats with jessie 
that it won't?  Or with wheezy if the refusal is here?

From that terminal screen on this wheezy box:
pi@picnc:~ $ sudo piclone 
X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.

(piclone:2001): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: localhost:11.0
pi@picnc:~ $

Thanks Alan.

> On 9/22/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Greetings;
> >
> > Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting from,
> > to another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding up with
> > nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
> >
> > Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi
> > several hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer
> > showing continuous activity.
> >
> > Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim
> > backups of these limited lifetime sd cards?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: need sd card backup on r-pi-3b

[Alan Corey]

I thought piclone was great for that.  With a couple manual edits you
can even clone an sd to a hard drive.

On 9/22/17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Greetings;
>
> Trying to dd a copy of the micro-sd card the pi-3b is booting from, to
> another micro-sd card in a usb reader/writer, and winding up with
> nothing but an empty lost+found directory on it.
>
> Obviously some sort of a syntax error, but it still takes the pi several
> hours to do it, with the traffic led on the reader/writer showing
> continuous activity.
>
> Is there another way/util that actually works for making verbatim backups
> of these limited lifetime sd cards?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>


-- 
-
No, I won't  call it "climate change", do you have a "reality problem"? - AB1JX
Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach  Impeach