Re: arm build hardware
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 01:02:31AM +0100, peter green wrote: Ok to fill in on some developments. I got a 2GB nitrogen6x and have been testing it. It crashed a couple of times with the first kernel I was using (the one that was included in an image I got from armhf) but I then upgraded the kernel and it's been stable since. I also added a heatsink just before I upgraded the kernel but I don't think that made any difference (it crashed while building eglibc just before I put the heatsink on, crashed while building eglibc after I put the heatsink on but before I upgraded the kernel and built eglibc successfully after upgrading the kernel). However just as I was becoming reasonablly happy with the nitrogen6x's stability I happened to notice on twitter that wandboard,org have released a board with the same basic hardware for about twice the price. So now I need to get one of those and check it out too... Great, now I might have to buy more hardware... :) -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130611133940.gi11...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Re: arm build hardware
peter green wrote: However just as I was becoming reasonablly happy with the nitrogen6x's stability I happened to notice on twitter that wandboard,org have released a board with the same basic hardware for about twice the price. That should have said about half the price -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/51b76294.3070...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 06:47:00PM +0100, peter green wrote: peter green wrote: However just as I was becoming reasonablly happy with the nitrogen6x's stability I happened to notice on twitter that wandboard,org have released a board with the same basic hardware for about twice the price. That should have said about half the price Yep I figured that when I saw the price of it. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130611185957.gj11...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Re: arm build hardware
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013, peter green wrote: peter green wrote: However just as I was becoming reasonablly happy with the nitrogen6x's stability I happened to notice on twitter that wandboard,org have released a board with the same basic hardware for about twice the price. That should have said about half the price How much of the wandboard hardware is supported by the kernel I would like to buy one of the quad boards Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.DEB.2.00.1306111429450.31540@tehzcl2.tehzcl-arg
Re: arm build hardware
peter green wrote: Tim Fletcher wrote: The cubox pro, 2gb of ram and esata. From here:http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=CuBoxPro Seems very weak on the CPU The other option is the mirabox which is only 1gb of ram but has real mini pcie slots. Available here: http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=Mirabox 1GB of ram is simply unacceptable for an autobuilder nowadays. After the bad stuff i'm reading about the arndaleboard (apparently problems even at 1.4 GHz despite the advertised speed being 1.8 GHz) i'm thinking the 2GB nitrogen6x is the best option right now. Has anyone here hammered on a nitrogen6x or similar board? is it stable at the advertised 1GHz with all cores loaded? Ok to fill in on some developments. I got a 2GB nitrogen6x and have been testing it. It crashed a couple of times with the first kernel I was using (the one that was included in an image I got from armhf) but I then upgraded the kernel and it's been stable since. I also added a heatsink just before I upgraded the kernel but I don't think that made any difference (it crashed while building eglibc just before I put the heatsink on, crashed while building eglibc after I put the heatsink on but before I upgraded the kernel and built eglibc successfully after upgrading the kernel). However just as I was becoming reasonablly happy with the nitrogen6x's stability I happened to notice on twitter that wandboard,org have released a board with the same basic hardware for about twice the price. So now I need to get one of those and check it out too... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/51b66917.8090...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:16:42PM +, peter green wrote: After the bad stuff i'm reading about the arndaleboard (apparently problems even at 1.4 GHz despite the advertised speed being 1.8 GHz) pandaboards were not particularry stable when people started using them. Likewise, using the early kernels with imx5 boards was not a happy experience. i'm thinking the 2GB nitrogen6x is the best option right now. Has anyone here hammered on a nitrogen6x or similar board? is it stable at the advertised 1GHz with all cores loaded? Btw compulab is offering imx6 with upto 4G of RAM: http://compulab.co.il/products/computer-on-modules/cm-fx6/#ordering The price will unfortunately rack up especially for small orders. Riku -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130326140841.ga18...@afflict.kos.to
Re: arm build hardware
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote (ao): On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Sander san...@humilis.net wrote: I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Why can't you just use an usb-to-serial cable? reliability of the usb-to-serial cable. i.e. many people have found them to be utterly, utterly shit. to the extent that, it is well-known and *already* in the linux kernel source tree, for at least 18 months possibly more, that the support for e.g. GL830 usb-to-sata Issues with usb-to-sata don't affect usb-to-serial, do they? FWIW, I use a handful of http://www.aten.com/products/productItem.php?model_no=UC232A and they've never failed me, with arm and x86 as both source and destination. I have an openrd-client (7x usb) in use as a consoleserver. Sander IC actually has an algorithm if chip crashes then reset it without notifying the user, repeat until success. trimslice used the GL830 in one of their boxes (the one with the nvidia tegra), and it wasn't a good idea. on the other hand, some people have reported that if you pick the right usb-to-sata flash drive, you can get exceptional reliability. gordon on arm-netbooks did a write-up about 18 months ago - he's extremely knowledgeable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130314082645.GA29930@panda
Re: arm build hardware
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 09:26:45AM +0100, Sander wrote: Issues with usb-to-sata don't affect usb-to-serial, do they? FWIW, I use a handful of http://www.aten.com/products/productItem.php?model_no=UC232A and they've never failed me, with arm and x86 as both source and destination. I have an openrd-client (7x usb) in use as a consoleserver. Well that's pl2303 based. Those are not known to be the most reliable things around (and some of the comments in the linux driver are not encouraging either). For a reliable working USB serial adapter, something based on FTDI tends to just work. Most are PL2303 based though since it is much cheaper. And of course they almost never tell you what they are based on. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130314144020.gf11...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Re: arm build hardware
On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 10:40 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 09:26:45AM +0100, Sander wrote: Issues with usb-to-sata don't affect usb-to-serial, do they? FWIW, I use a handful of http://www.aten.com/products/productItem.php?model_no=UC232A and they've never failed me, with arm and x86 as both source and destination. I have an openrd-client (7x usb) in use as a consoleserver. Well that's pl2303 based. Those are not known to be the most reliable things around (and some of the comments in the linux driver are not encouraging either). For a reliable working USB serial adapter, something based on FTDI tends to just work. That is my experience too, even from the days my work PC was Windows. Most are PL2303 based though since it is much cheaper. And of course they almost never tell you what they are based on. That's why I always buy from a place that explicitly advertises as FTDI based... http://www.usbnow.co.uk/p48/USB_to_RS232_with_FTDI_Chipset_(1.8M_Cable)/product_info.html -- Tixy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1363293200.3260.2.ca...@computer5.home
Re: arm build hardware
Il 13/03/2013 02:03, Luke Kennèeth Casson Leighton ha scritto: On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:02 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 corr, that's f*g tiny! absolutely awesome. wow. 10 watts power input. that's a hell of a lot in such a small space. hilarious the way they have the ... can't finish a sentence, can i. double-stacked USB+Ethernet on such a small board, i was going to say. Yes great board, but don't forget: [1] Any order together with ODROID-U2 will be shipped out in 3 weeks (+2/5 Day Fedex ) [1] Full Aluminium Case Assembled : ODROID-U2 will be shipped with this case. [2] Will the GPU overclock? There’s a little overclocking headroom mmm... operating temperature? [3] Warranty period Board style product (X/X2/U2/PC) : 4 weeks mumble...mumble ODROID-U2 life ?? Other board warranty 6 months [4] Official Samsung Exynos community board [5] Dario 다리오 --Link-- [1]http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 [2]http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451tab_idx=3 [3]http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/shop/good_buy_view.php?lang=eng_code=G135341370451 [4]http://yicsystem.com/yic/xe/as_e [5]http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/Exynos/platform_partners_platform.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/51408c62.8090...@gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
Tim Fletcher wrote: The cubox pro, 2gb of ram and esata. From here:http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=CuBoxPro Seems very weak on the CPU The other option is the mirabox which is only 1gb of ram but has real mini pcie slots. Available here: http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/proddetail.php?prod=Mirabox 1GB of ram is simply unacceptable for an autobuilder nowadays. After the bad stuff i'm reading about the arndaleboard (apparently problems even at 1.4 GHz despite the advertised speed being 1.8 GHz) i'm thinking the 2GB nitrogen6x is the best option right now. Has anyone here hammered on a nitrogen6x or similar board? is it stable at the advertised 1GHz with all cores loaded? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/514108da.5030...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
On 10/03/13 11:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:56 AM, David Pottage da...@chrestomanci.org wrote: On 08/03/13 19:11, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. I had been looking egarly at the openbrix zero but it looks like that project has been abandoned . I've thought through a list of requirements and nice to have's and am currently looking at two boards the nitrogen6x (with 2GB ram option) and the arndaleboard. (Re-posting to the list, I replied only to Peter before.) Have you come across the cubieboard http://cubieboard.org/. It only has 1Gb of RAM, ... which is an immediate problem for any build system, to be taken seriously. i've posted on this previously (4 months ago, 5 months ago and 8 months ago approximately), as well as there being an independent post by someone who noted that modifications to one package required, if memory serves correctly (which it usually doesn't) *six gigabytes* of swap space in order to effect a link. to repeat again: the example that i give is the one that i know well - webkit, which requires at least 1.4gb *resident* RAM in order to complete the link phase in a reasonable time frame. 15 minutes is not unreasonable on a 2ghz dual-core XEON... *as long as* you do not require debug information. if you require debug information (dbg deb packages) then you're looking at around an hour. if however you only have 1gb of RAM then that 15 minutes turns into 90 minutes, and christ knows what the debug build link time is, i never bothered to find out because i have better things to do. and that's with dual-core XEONs. the debian ARM build systems which previously had only 1gb of RAM i believe they were looking at 2 days for the link phase on some of these larger packages. so, yeah - word of advice from experience: *DO NOT* get a system with 1gb of RAM for building of distro packages, if you want to have a life :) OK then, what about ODROID-U2 ? Quad Core Cortex A9 @ 1.7 GHz, 2Gb RAM, no SATA connectivity. http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 I know you have said that some USB mass storage controllers are unreliable but is it really that bad for all of them? Is there a list of known good controllers or ones to avoid? I have been investigating ARM dev boards for an unrelated project of my own, and discovered that thought there are plenty to choose from, a SATA port appears to be a rare feature that increases the price considerably, which got me thinking that the raw speed of USB2 should be adequate so long as it is reliable and does not add too much latency. Could that work for the Rasberian build Farm? I would have thought that for building packages, higher latency storage could be tolerated much more than for other workloads as most data transfers would be large, so RAM and CPU performance would be more important. -- David Pottage -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513fa814.2080...@chrestomanci.org
Re: arm build hardware
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:11 PM, David Pottage da...@chrestomanci.org wrote: so, yeah - word of advice from experience: *DO NOT* get a system with 1gb of RAM for building of distro packages, if you want to have a life :) OK then, what about ODROID-U2 ? Quad Core Cortex A9 @ 1.7 GHz, 2Gb RAM, no SATA connectivity. mmm... sounds good... http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 corr, that's f*g tiny! absolutely awesome. wow. 10 watts power input. that's a hell of a lot in such a small space. hilarious the way they have the I know you have said that some USB mass storage controllers are unreliable but is it really that bad for all of them? Is there a list of known good controllers or ones to avoid? i don't honestly know. i have to find out, because i'm doing a jz4760 eoma68 card. jz4760 doesn't have SATA... so unless i hear otherwise i'm going with the JM20329 [because i found a datasheet on it - hard to find, these!] I have been investigating ARM dev boards for an unrelated project of my own, and discovered that thought there are plenty to choose from, a SATA port appears to be a rare feature that increases the price considerably, which got me thinking that the raw speed of USB2 should be adequate so long as it is reliable and does not add too much latency. see if you can find gordan's postings (or track him down) - he found some extremely good NAND SSDs that had dual SATA and USB interfaces. he upgraded a toshiba a100 [ documented it all, including replacing the screen with a 1280x768] and put a USB-based SSD in, and it absolutely screams along. because he picked the right part. and tested a whole bunch. if you can find him you should be able to ask him, since the intervening time which is over a year now, how reliable it's been. l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/capweedztqrb8hkdcpukxwireyp8btrz8aavygsxqi6sgmo4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:02 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net wrote: http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 corr, that's f*g tiny! absolutely awesome. wow. 10 watts power input. that's a hell of a lot in such a small space. hilarious the way they have the ... can't finish a sentence, can i. double-stacked USB+Ethernet on such a small board, i was going to say. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDydR+qosd4N7RSTkdE1ErbFX3mOtZn1zS8X5LC=rfo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
Peter Bauer wrote (ao):
Is there anywhere a guide how to
install Debian on the Arndale board ?
Follow the instructions at
https://wiki.linaro.org/Boards/Arndale/Setup/EnterpriseUbuntuServer to
make the arndale boot from sdhc.
Use multistrap on a different debian system to put an initial debian on a
partition created a bit from the beginning of the sdhc:
arndale:~# fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk1
Disk /dev/mmcblk1: 15.9 GB, 15931539456 bytes
149 heads, 49 sectors/track, 4261 cylinders, total 31116288 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/mmcblk1p12516582429360127 2097152 83 Linux
multistrap.conf:
---
[General]
arch=armhf
directory=/mnt/
cleanup=true
noauth=true
unpack=true
debootstrap=Arndale
aptsources=Arndale
[Arndale]
packages=apt iproute
source=http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian
omitdebsrc=true
keyring=debian-archive-keyring
suite=sid
---
After the multistrap, give root a password and create
/etc/{fstab,resolv.conf,hostname,hosts,inittab}:
arndale:~# cat /etc/{fstab,resolv.conf,hostname,hosts,inittab}
LABEL=sdhc / ext4defaults 0 0
proc/proc procdefaults 0 0
sysfs /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0
tmpfs /run tmpfs defaults 0 0
devpts /dev/pts devpts defaults 0 0
nameserver xx.xx.xx.xx
arndale
127.0.0.1 localhost
::1 localhost
xx.xx.xx.xx arndale
id:2:initdefault:
si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS
l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0
l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1
l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2
l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3
l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4
l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5
l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6
z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin
7:123:respawn:/sbin/getty 115200 ttySAC2
Hope that helps.
Sander
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Re: arm build hardware
Phil Endecott wrote (ao): Steve McIntyre writes: The second issue is reliability - various people have reported instability when working their arndale machines hard for building. Can you say more, i.e. who has reported that, where? Yes, please :-) Haven't had issues with mine yet, and I have it running in the shielded bag (A) My understanding is that there is no heatsink on the CPU. If that's the cause of the problems, it could be easily fixed by attaching one. *nods* I have ordered an Arndale board which I intend to fit in a small 1U case. Ordering was a total pain: it honestly said this website best viewed with Internet Explorer 10, and although I ordered it on 15th Feb it still hasn't been dispatched. Hmm, worked just fine with firefox (iceweasel) for me. With a bit of luck there is full kernel support when it arrives :-) Btw, I've searched quite a bit to find a suitable way to connect a ssd, and think I might go for the Silverstone SD01: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=300 Opinions on that? Other hardware to consider? Sander -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130311093437.GC19516@panda
Re: arm build hardware
Sander wrote: peter green wrote (ao): So I think two arndaleboards in a 1U EATX case would be tight but doable. The biggest problem would likely be the serial console connector and it may be nessacery to use a custom cable for that either using an IDC D connector or using a conventional solder or crimp connector with no backshell. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Why can't you just use an usb-to-serial cable? Because by my calculations when putting two arndaleboards in a standard 1U EATX server case there will only be 50mm between them. Most normal serial cables wouldn't fit in such a space. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513dd3fa.4020...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
peter green wrote (ao): Sander wrote: peter green wrote (ao): So I think two arndaleboards in a 1U EATX case would be tight but doable. The biggest problem would likely be the serial console connector and it may be nessacery to use a custom cable for that either using an IDC D connector or using a conventional solder or crimp connector with no backshell. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Why can't you just use an usb-to-serial cable? Because by my calculations when putting two arndaleboards in a standard 1U EATX server case there will only be 50mm between them. Most normal serial cables wouldn't fit in such a space. Hmm, yes, but you can let the cable cross the neighbor board? Sander -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130311131028.GA29621@panda
Re: arm build hardware
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Sander san...@humilis.net wrote: peter green wrote (ao): So I think two arndaleboards in a 1U EATX case would be tight but doable. The biggest problem would likely be the serial console connector and it may be nessacery to use a custom cable for that either using an IDC D connector or using a conventional solder or crimp connector with no backshell. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Why can't you just use an usb-to-serial cable? reliability of the usb-to-serial cable. i.e. many people have found them to be utterly, utterly shit. to the extent that, it is well-known and *already* in the linux kernel source tree, for at least 18 months possibly more, that the support for e.g. GL830 usb-to-sata IC actually has an algorithm if chip crashes then reset it without notifying the user, repeat until success. trimslice used the GL830 in one of their boxes (the one with the nvidia tegra), and it wasn't a good idea. on the other hand, some people have reported that if you pick the right usb-to-sata flash drive, you can get exceptional reliability. gordon on arm-netbooks did a write-up about 18 months ago - he's extremely knowledgeable. l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDx-LYeKOEK=fzecxeboh1semyxdx3yolmtuvvzxyin...@mail.gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 20:33 +, peter green wrote: David Pottage wrote: On 09/03/13 11:02, Oliver Grawert wrote: get a few chromebooks, 2G of ram, fast CPU and debian/ubuntu supported ... admittedly no SATA but USB 3.0 which should be speedy enough ... for networking get an USB 2.0 NIC (if you need wired) and enjoy that they come with a builtin UPS Apparently the USB3 socket is not actually useful. anandtech.com Benchmarked it when they reviewed the Chromebook, and only got 12.7MB/s (while running ChromeOS), which is barely more than the maximum speed for USB2. IIRC though their benchmark consisted of copy files to/from the internal flash, so it may have been the internal flash that was slow. I don't see any real reason to choose the chromebook over the arndaleboard though (same processor, same ram, about the same price, worse interfaces). For a build cluster the arndale board looks way better than just laptops. 1. How much of them will you need ? 2. It may be difficult to put the arndale board into a case which can be mounted into a rack. It looks like the arndale board has its connectors at least on 3 sides of the pcb which doesnt't make it easier. 3. Which interface would you like to use for mass storage ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1362909294.2485.9.camel@peter-laptop
Re: arm build hardware
On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 07:11:16PM +, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. I had been looking egarly at the openbrix zero but it looks like that project has been abandoned :(. I've thought through a list of requirements and nice to have's and am currently looking at two boards the nitrogen6x (with 2GB ram option) and the arndaleboard. Hi Peter, As another data point... I'm looking at migrating the current Debian buildd machines across from imx53 to arndale in the next few months, using a similar kind of setup to what we have there right now [1]. The arndale boards are physically too large to fit in the existing mini-rack so I'm expecting to swap from there to a new 6U version. Thankfully, the arndales look like they should work fine using the same power/SATA/ethernet options as we currently have which will make things easier. There are 2 potential worries yet. AFAIK, the kernel for the arndale is not yet upstreamed enough for our purposes so we'd have to run a locally-built kernel for a while; I'm hoping this will get fixed in time. The second issue is reliability - various people have reported instability when working their arndale machines hard for building. Again, I'm hoping this will get fixed in time. What I'm planning on doing in the short term is replacing an already-broken imx53 in the Debian build cluster (hartmann) with an arndale and seeing how well that holds up under load. If all looks well, I'll get more and start swapping out more of the machines and probably some of the older Marvell armel buildds too, [1] http://blog.einval.com/2011/09/05#armhf_buildds -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com This dress doesn't reverse. -- Alden Spiess -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130310105857.gn8...@einval.com
Re: arm build hardware
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:56 AM, David Pottage da...@chrestomanci.org wrote: On 08/03/13 19:11, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. I had been looking egarly at the openbrix zero but it looks like that project has been abandoned . I've thought through a list of requirements and nice to have's and am currently looking at two boards the nitrogen6x (with 2GB ram option) and the arndaleboard. (Re-posting to the list, I replied only to Peter before.) Have you come across the cubieboard http://cubieboard.org/. It only has 1Gb of RAM, ... which is an immediate problem for any build system, to be taken seriously. i've posted on this previously (4 months ago, 5 months ago and 8 months ago approximately), as well as there being an independent post by someone who noted that modifications to one package required, if memory serves correctly (which it usually doesn't) *six gigabytes* of swap space in order to effect a link. to repeat again: the example that i give is the one that i know well - webkit, which requires at least 1.4gb *resident* RAM in order to complete the link phase in a reasonable time frame. 15 minutes is not unreasonable on a 2ghz dual-core XEON... *as long as* you do not require debug information. if you require debug information (dbg deb packages) then you're looking at around an hour. if however you only have 1gb of RAM then that 15 minutes turns into 90 minutes, and christ knows what the debug build link time is, i never bothered to find out because i have better things to do. and that's with dual-core XEONs. the debian ARM build systems which previously had only 1gb of RAM i believe they were looking at 2 days for the link phase on some of these larger packages. so, yeah - word of advice from experience: *DO NOT* get a system with 1gb of RAM for building of distro packages, if you want to have a life :) l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDy4qa3ysfMigOAge4howopQ=s-72v5ig67r5qwy6o4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
Peter Bauer wrote: For a build cluster the arndale board looks way better than just laptops. 1. How much of them will you need ? I'm not really sure, for raspbian wheezy we use eight imx53 quickstart boards. Now an arndaleboard should be more than twice as fast as an imx53 even in non-parelellisable builds but debian is growing over time. I'd guestimate six arndales would be enough to do us for a while. 2. It may be difficult to put the arndale board into a case which can be mounted into a rack. It looks like the arndale board has its connectors at least on 3 sides of the pcb which doesnt't make it easier. The arndaleboard has connectors on three sides but one side only has HDMI which we would not be using so there is no need to leave space to plug it in. The arndaleboard is 140x195mm. You can easilly find 1U cases that are designed to take an EATX board. EATX is 305mmx330mm. If the long edge of the arndaleboard is placed along the short edge of the space with the connectors facing inwards that gives us 50mm of connector space between the two boards for connectors on the long edge and 110mm of space for the eSATA connector on the short side. So I think two arndaleboards in a 1U EATX case would be tight but doable. The biggest problem would likely be the serial console connector and it may be nessacery to use a custom cable for that either using an IDC D connector or using a conventional solder or crimp connector with no backshell. 3. Which interface would you like to use for mass storage ? SATA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513c6d20.2090...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
Hi Steve, Steve McIntyre writes: I'm looking at migrating the current Debian buildd machines across from imx53 to arndale in the next few months The second issue is reliability - various people have reported instability when working their arndale machines hard for building. Can you say more, i.e. who has reported that, where? My understanding is that there is no heatsink on the CPU. If that's the cause of the problems, it could be easily fixed by attaching one. I have ordered an Arndale board which I intend to fit in a small 1U case. Ordering was a total pain: it honestly said this website best viewed with Internet Explorer 10, and although I ordered it on 15th Feb it still hasn't been dispatched. It's also a bit worrying to see that the OPENBRIX / ARMBRIX board, which is essentially a stripped-down Arndale, has been cancelled Due to a situation experienced by the ARMBRIX Company (news item at http://howchip.com/ ). Cheers, Phil. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/loom.20130310t125319-...@post.gmane.org
Re: arm build hardware
Is there anywhere a guide how to install Debian on the Arndale board ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1362923989.2485.12.camel@peter-laptop
Re: arm build hardware
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Dom to...@rpdom.net wrote: I really admire the work you've done on Raspbian. why do you support domination and control, patents and the sale of proprietary software all in the name of and under the guise of education [1]? if you want to admire someone please consider admiring them for reverse-engineering [2] the proprietary components of the underlying CPU of this fantastically admirable [3] but underneath really rather insidious device. l. [*1] http://whitequark.org/blog/2012/09/25/why-raspberry-pi-is-unsuitable-for-education/ [*2] http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/reverse-engineering - see Videocore VI [*3] http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/09/raspberry-pi-insider-exclusive-sellout-to-sell-out -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/capweedyjq9casbmhysts0ej62pswrhctgbqfuwpksczgiar...@mail.gmail.com
Re: arm build hardware
hi, On Fr, 2013-03-08 at 19:11 +, peter green wrote: Required: Reasonablly priced. I am hoping I will be able to get our build hardware sponsored but I still don't want to take the piss by specing hardware with poor bang per buck. Reasonable cost of entry, I'm not going to spec out a cluster without having a single board for testing first. 2GB ram minimum, more would be great SATA, I don't trust USB and it also makes the physical mounting awkward since the USB-SATA adaptor has to go somwhere. Ability to get a debian or ubuntu based system (ideally debian) running on it easilly get a few chromebooks, 2G of ram, fast CPU and debian/ubuntu supported ... admittedly no SATA but USB 3.0 which should be speedy enough ... for networking get an USB 2.0 NIC (if you need wired) and enjoy that they come with a builtin UPS ;) ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: arm build hardware
hi, On Sa, 2013-03-09 at 12:03 +, David Pottage wrote: Apparently the USB3 socket is not actually useful. anandtech.com Benchmarked it when they reviewed the Chromebook, and only got 12.7MB/s (while running ChromeOS), which is barely more than the maximum speed for USB2. i know that method of measuring isnt very scientific but this is what i get on a userspace level (not turning off caches or using raw operations, but after all thats what you as user will see as well) ... i wonder if they tested the right port :) --- snip --- writing: ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/foo.img bs=1M count=100 100+0 records in 100+0 records out 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 1,03535 s, 101 MB/s reading ... ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo dd of=/dev/null if=/mnt/foo.img 204800+0 records in 204800+0 records out 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0,424303 s, 247 MB/s ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo dd of=/dev/null if=/mnt/foo.img 204800+0 records in 204800+0 records out 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0,425927 s, 246 MB/s and hdparm ... ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2 /dev/sda2: Timing cached reads: 2638 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1320.68 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 118 MB in 3.03 seconds = 38.98 MB/sec ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2 /dev/sda2: Timing cached reads: 2338 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1170.17 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 110 MB in 3.01 seconds = 36.58 MB/sec ogra@chromebook:~$ sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2 /dev/sda2: Timing cached reads: 2654 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1328.68 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 122 MB in 3.01 seconds = 40.53 MB/se --- snap --- ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: arm build hardware
On 09/03/13 11:02, Oliver Grawert wrote: get a few chromebooks ... buy up a few with broken screens from ebay etc. ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Samsung-Chromebook-with-BROKEN-SCREEN-/271166903320 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513b288f.5050...@buttersideup.com
Re: arm build hardware
On 08/03/13 19:11, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. I had been looking egarly at the openbrix zero but it looks like that project has been abandoned . I've thought through a list of requirements and nice to have's and am currently looking at two boards the nitrogen6x (with 2GB ram option) and the arndaleboard. (Re-posting to the list, I replied only to Peter before.) Have you come across the cubieboard http://cubieboard.org/. It only has 1Gb of RAM, and a single core Cortex A8 CPU@1GHz, but it is a quarter of the price of the nitrogen6x (Which also only has 1Gb of RAM unless you pay an extra $50) so it might be more cost effective to more of them, and buy only one or two larger boards to build the most memory hungry packages. It is the size of a Raspberry Pi. The other option would be to approach one of the System integrators who a working on dense rack mountable ARM servers for the data centre and ask them if they would sponsor you by providing some hardware. You project must get a great deal of traffic, and a Your add here at the top of your home page would go a long way. The company I work for is a medium sized Dell costumer, (To the tune of about $10k of servers per month) and I know that several of us are also Raspberry Pi enthusiasts. You might also try approaching ARM directly, as they might have some better development hardware they could lend you. I have a friend who works for them on gcc support. I could approach him if you think it might be helpful. -- David Pottage
Re: arm build hardware
David Pottage wrote: Have you come accross the cubieboard http://cubieboard.org/. It only has 1Gb of RAM, and a single core Cortex A8 CPU@1GHz, but it is a quarter of the price of the nitrogen6x so it might be more cost effective to more of them, and buy only one or two larger boards to build the most memory hungry packages. While the board itself is a fifth of the price of an arndale or 2GB nitrogen6x you run into the issue that when boards get that cheap the accessories (hard drive, bay to put the hard drive in, network port, serial console connection etc) start costing more than the board itself. So i'd imagine the total cost per board is more like a third to a half the total cost per board of a 2GB nitrogen6x or arndale. Also the impression I've got from various discussions over the years (mostly involving mips iirc) is that debian lacks both the metadata on package build requirements and the tools to use that metadata to efficiently run a hetrogenous build cluster. The other option would be to approach one of the System integrators who a working on dense rack mountable ARM servers for the data centre and ask them if they would sponsor you by providing some hardware. You project must get a great deal of traffic, and a Your add here at the top of your home page would go a long way. The company I work for is a medium sized Dell costumer, (To the tune of about $10k/month) and I know that several of us are also Raspberry Pi enthusiasts. When I approached boston about the viridis the response I got was along the lines of we and calexeda are too small to give out freebies/discounts to open source developers. When I approached baserock about the slab I didn't even get a response to my email. I haven't approached dell or HP because frankly i've no idea how to do so. I don't think contacting the general sales address at a megacorp like that would be very effective. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513b991e.3000...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
David Pottage wrote: On 09/03/13 11:02, Oliver Grawert wrote: get a few chromebooks, 2G of ram, fast CPU and debian/ubuntu supported ... admittedly no SATA but USB 3.0 which should be speedy enough ... for networking get an USB 2.0 NIC (if you need wired) and enjoy that they come with a builtin UPS Apparently the USB3 socket is not actually useful. anandtech.com Benchmarked it when they reviewed the Chromebook, and only got 12.7MB/s (while running ChromeOS), which is barely more than the maximum speed for USB2. IIRC though their benchmark consisted of copy files to/from the internal flash, so it may have been the internal flash that was slow. I don't see any real reason to choose the chromebook over the arndaleboard though (same processor, same ram, about the same price, worse interfaces). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513b9c80.2060...@p10link.net
arm build hardware
I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. I had been looking egarly at the openbrix zero but it looks like that project has been abandoned :(. I've thought through a list of requirements and nice to have's and am currently looking at two boards the nitrogen6x (with 2GB ram option) and the arndaleboard. Required: Reasonablly priced. I am hoping I will be able to get our build hardware sponsored but I still don't want to take the piss by specing hardware with poor bang per buck. Reasonable cost of entry, I'm not going to spec out a cluster without having a single board for testing first. 2GB ram minimum, more would be great SATA, I don't trust USB and it also makes the physical mounting awkward since the USB-SATA adaptor has to go somwhere. Ability to get a debian or ubuntu based system (ideally debian) running on it easilly Preferable: Physically small (if I could shove four of them in a standard 1U rackmount server case that would be great, the nitrogen6x wins over the arndale here) Support in a stock debian kernel (is either the arndale or the imx6 supported in debian kernels or likely to be supported in the near future) As much total CPU power as possible (I think the arndale marginally beats the nitrogen6x here if wikipedias claim of A16 being 40% better than A9 is realistic, anyone have any numbers here) Fast dual core processor preffered over slower quad core (arndale beats nitrogen6x here). Are there any other pros/cons I should be aware of in a nitrogen6x vs arndaleboard comparison? Are there any other hardware options I should be considering? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513a37d4.9010...@p10link.net
Re: arm build hardware
On 08/03/13 19:11, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. Does this mean you are intending to track Jessie on the Raspbian repos when Wheezy moves to Stable? This would be good, but might cause a little breakage as the new versions flood in from Sid after the switch over. I really admire the work you've done on Raspbian. Thank you! -- Dom (rpdom on the Pi forums) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513a447d.6060...@rpdom.net
Re: arm build hardware
Dom wrote: On 08/03/13 19:11, peter green wrote: I run a debian derivative called raspbian and i'm looking into a new build cluster both to give more power for the jessie campaign and to migrate the cluster out of mike's basement. Does this mean you are intending to track Jessie on the Raspbian repos when Wh eezy moves to Stable? Raspbian wheezy will continue to follow debian wheezy. The intention is to create raspbian jessie to follow debian jessie but there is likely to be a delay between the creation of debian jessie and the creation of raspbian jessie. Also the ammount of breakage in raspbian jessie is very likely to be higher than in debian jessie, especially during periods of heavy development. The tentative idea is to set up the new build cluster for raspbian jessie while the existing build cluster continues to build raspbian wheezy. Then when all the gremlins in the new cluster are sorted out to move raspbian wheezy over to it as well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-arm-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513aaf92.3070...@p10link.net
