Bug#919813: recognising devuan

[Hendrik Boom]

So the remaining problem is that the Debian Buster os-prober did not 
recognise Devuan ascii.

-- hendrik

Bug#919813: comparison with earlier release

[Hendrik Boom]

Just for comparison, on Devuan ascii (stretch wirhout systend), I get:

root@midwinter:/home/hendrik# os-prober
File descriptor 8 (socket:[13898]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 2831: 
/bin/sh
File descriptor 9 (socket:[13899]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 2831: 
/bin/sh
File descriptor 10 (socket:[16454]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 2831: 
/bin/sh
File descriptor 11 (socket:[16455]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 2831: 
/bin/sh
File descriptor 18 (socket:[13991]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 2831: 
/bin/sh
/dev/sda6:Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid:Debian:linux
root@midwinter:/home/hendrik# 

Here it also does not recognise the OS it runs on, but it *does* recognise
Debian.

Could the problem be that it is does not recognise
  (a) its own OS, nor
  (b) any OS those root partition in on an LVM volume, even if its /boot
  is on a primary partition?

-- hendrik

Bug#919813: os-prober fails to find any os's at all.

[Hendrik Boom]

Package: os-prober
Version: 1.77

os-prober fails to find any os's at all after a new Debian buster install,
not even the installed and running DEbian buster.

The install was done using the net-install CD on a USB stick on 2019 01 18,
downloaded immediately before the installation.

root@buster:/home/guest# os-prober
root@buster:/home/guest# 

This was run the day after installation.

The machine actually has two Linux systems installed:

* the newly installed Debian buster.
  * /boot on /dev/sda2, and / on /dev/sda6.
  * Installed yesterday.
* An older Devuan ascii.
  * /boot on /dev/sda1, and other partitions in an LVM on /dev/sda3
  * Installed a few months ago.

Both are now bootable from the grub2 boot menu installed by using the 
debian installer to install buster yesterday.  Presumably the installer 
used os-prober succesfully, but the os-prober I installed 
today using aptitude does not work.

Could they be different versions?

I'm not aware of anything unusual about the enviromnent.  It'a a Purism 
laptop.

-- hendrik

Re: accessing efivarfs in debian-installer

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 04:08:55PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-05-27 at 09:13 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:59:35AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:41:39AM +0200, Francesco De Vita wrote:
> > > > Hi
> > > > 
> > > > On 25/5/2016 16:31, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > > > > Francesco De Vita <fra...@inventati.org> (2016-05-24):
> > > > > > So, is it possible to access the efivarfs interface and retrieve
> > > > > > the required nvram-file inside the DI environment?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm pretty sure we can do that from d-i since that's needed to get
> > > > > UEFI support working AFAICT. Looking at udebs, it seems you want to
> > > > > be loading this one, probably manually if you're at an early stage:
> > > > > efi-modules-4.5.0-2-amd64-di_4.5.4-1_amd64.udeb
> > > > > 
> > > > > It contains:
> > > > >   ./lib/modules/4.5.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/firmware/efi/efivars.ko
> > > > > 
> > > > > which is likely to make it possible to access efivars, allowing you
> > > > > to mount them on the mount point (which you mentioned, exists
> > > > > already).
> > > > 
> > > > This time I'm using the Stretch Alpha 6 DI. I successfully loaded the 
> > > > efivars module as you suggested, however the efivarfs interface remains 
> > > > inaccessible, it still cannot be mounted.
> > > > 
> > > > I suppose that the efivarfs module has to be loaded too but there is no 
> > > > trace of efivarfs.ko in the DI and I didn't find any udeb containing 
> > > > it. Should I load it someway from an external source?
> > > 
> > > Ah, that's your problem. It looks like we're not including that module
> > > yet. Most EFI variable users like efibootmgr will fall back to the
> > > older interfaces, so we've not noticed this yet.
> > > 
> > > I'll go and fix that now.
> > 
> > Wasn't mounting the efivars as a file system implicated in the complete 
> > bricking of someone's hardware a while ago?  The problem being that it 
> > was too easy to rm those files, which deleted those efi variables, 
> > which included variable that were essential to making booting possible?  
> > Not just that it wouldn't boot the installed system any more; it could 
> > no longer boot anything, not even an operating-system installer?
> 
> Fixed in Linux 4.5-rc5 and in 4.4.4.  Now only variables on a known-
> safe whitelist are allowed to be deleted.
> 
> [...]
> > Juat be very careful with efivars.
> 
> We are.

Excellent.

-- hendrik

Re: accessing efivarfs in debian-installer

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:59:35AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:41:39AM +0200, Francesco De Vita wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >On 25/5/2016 16:31, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> >> Francesco De Vita  (2016-05-24):
> >> > So, is it possible to access the efivarfs interface and retrieve
> >> > the required nvram-file inside the DI environment?
> >> 
> >> I'm pretty sure we can do that from d-i since that's needed to get
> >> UEFI support working AFAICT. Looking at udebs, it seems you want to
> >> be loading this one, probably manually if you're at an early stage:
> >> efi-modules-4.5.0-2-amd64-di_4.5.4-1_amd64.udeb
> >> 
> >> It contains:
> >>   ./lib/modules/4.5.0-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/firmware/efi/efivars.ko
> >> 
> >> which is likely to make it possible to access efivars, allowing you
> >> to mount them on the mount point (which you mentioned, exists
> >> already).
> >
> >This time I'm using the Stretch Alpha 6 DI. I successfully loaded the 
> >efivars module as you suggested, however the efivarfs interface remains 
> >inaccessible, it still cannot be mounted.
> >
> >I suppose that the efivarfs module has to be loaded too but there is no 
> >trace of efivarfs.ko in the DI and I didn't find any udeb containing 
> >it. Should I load it someway from an external source?
> 
> Ah, that's your problem. It looks like we're not including that module
> yet. Most EFI variable users like efibootmgr will fall back to the
> older interfaces, so we've not noticed this yet.
> 
> I'll go and fix that now.

Wasn't mounting the efivars as a file system implicated in the complete 
bricking of someone's hardware a while ago?  The problem being that it 
was too easy to rm those files, which deleted those efi variables, 
which included variable that were essential to making booting possible?  
Not just that it wouldn't boot the installed system any more; it could 
no longer boot anything, not even an operating-system installer?

I'd be wary of anything that mounts the efivars.  Especially leaving 
them mounted for more than the absolute minimum necessary to make 
use of them.

Mind you, there was an argument that the hardware was bedly defined, in 
that it had no mechanism to reset the efi vars to a safe staate, the 
the guy who issued the rm -rf * was an idiot, and that systemd had left 
the efivars mounted and vulnerable.

Juat be very careful with efivars.

-- hendrik

Re: request

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 02:54:29PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 03:06:14PM +0200, Moreanu Robert - Nicolae wrote:
> > i looking to resolve this problem when I want to install debian 8.2 or 8.1.
> > I receive this message after it's take to Grub install
> > 
> > " the 'grub-pc' package failed to install into /target/ "
> > after the operation of clean up on installing, i have a failed operations.
> > 
> > I don't have such expertise, please make the debian on install with more
> > information and what procedure to do that for the people don't have the
> > time to study the debian.
> > 
> > so.. how i could resolve this problem , any help from you, please
> > 
> > robert, waiting for your response
> 
> The mailinglist you are addressing is about development of debian-installer,
> not for user requests.

But this is clearly a request for a change in the debian installer -- 
that it provide more information on one kind of failure.  Now it may be 
legitimate to say it's infeasible, and it may well be infeasible, but 
shuttong the user up without at least suggesting where he should go is, 
well, at least impolite.

Suggesting that he submit an installation-report and that he post his 
question on debian-user would be appropriate.

-- hendrik

> 
> 
> Regards
> Geert Stappers
> -- 
> Ignoring is really harsh
> 

Re: Going ahead with non-free-firmware

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, Jan 09, 2016 at 10:36:53PM +0100, Philippe Cerfon wrote:
> And btw:
> Even if Debian doesn't want to do the non-open thing now or perhaps
> generally doesn't want to allow people to opt-out of closed source
> software while keeping other non-free software, then the name
> non-free-firmware seems to break the current naming, doesn't it?
> main
> contrib
> non-free
> 
> These all give the "license status" of their packages.
> But non-free-firmware, would give license status and package type.
> 
> 
> Oh and since this has been brought up by someone.
> It seems better if packages wouldn't be in multiple suites.
> That's also what I'd have intended with non-open, in other words, a
> package that is in non-open is only there and not also in e.g.
> non-open/firmware (and vice versa).

Maybe closed-source would be clearer than non-open.

-- hendrik

Re: Bug#800014: multipath-udeb: not installable: depends on libsystemd0

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:17:42PM +0530, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 18:53 +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > [ Adding debian-boot@lists.debian.org back. ]
> > 
> 
> Sorry about that.
> 
> 
> > > This was intentionally done because upstream added systemd
> > > dependency
> > > some time ago. For Jessie, I had disabled systemd support, but now,
> > > it
> > > makes sense to have it, and align with upstream and other
> > > distributions.

For the sake of derivatives without systemd, you might see if it's 
practical to leave the systemd dependency optional.

-- hendrik

> > > 
> > > So, I think the real question is about why libsystemd0 does not
> > > have a
> > > udeb ?
> > > 
> > > systemd maintainers should provide that input.
> > 
> > Some input from someone who doesn't know a thing about systemd or
> > multipath: libmultipath.so.0 has a NEEDED entry on libsystemd.so.0,
> > which seems to only define symbols named sd_* (which seems fair). The
> > only use I see in libmultipath.so.0 is sd_listen_fds.
> > 
> > Its manpage says:
> > 
> >sd_listen_fds() shall be called by a daemon to check for file
> >descriptors passed by the init system as part of the socket
> > -based
> >activation logic.
> > 
> > There's no systemd in d-i, so there's no socket-based activation
> > logic,
> > and you can't rely on that in your multipath udeb.
> 
> 
> Hmmm... I'll look into it later. But when you say "No systemd in d-i",
> does it mean that is how it is going to remain ?
> 
> -- 
> Ritesh Raj Sarraf | http://people.debian.org/~rrs
> Debian - The Universal Operating System

Re: Kernel panic after format usb stick

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 07:53:38AM -0500, Jorge Ernesto Guevara Cuenca wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I ejected a usb stick without umount and doesn't boot anymore, I formatted
 it again, prepare like the install manual[1] says and it don't boot never
 again. I tried with oficial images[2] and my own images created, and ever i
 obtain this kernel panic message:
 
 List of all partitiions:
 No filesystem could mount root, tried:
 kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on
 unknown-block(0,0)
 
 How can I use again this usb stick?

I've never had a USB stick panic the kernel, but I have had them beome 
unusable on a random variety if systems (including Debian) if the 
weren't dismounted properly.  fsck seemed to help.

-- hendrik

Re: cdimage?? What should we call it?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 05:34:39PM +0100, Majid HUSSAIN wrote:
 hi there,
 hows about
 iso.debian.org?

People have been calling them iso's

-- hendrik

 it makes sence to me at least.
 thoughts?
 Majid
 
 On 18/08/2015, Simon Kainz si...@familiekainz.at wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA512
 
  Well, i created a Wiki Page for this, making it probably easier to
  decide upon things. I copied the already proposed names there:
 
  https://wiki.debian.org/NewNameForCDImage
 
  Bye,
 
  Simon
 
 
 
  Am 2015-08-18 um 18:15 schrieb Steve Langasek:
  On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 05:09:19PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
  Hey folks,
 
  We called our main installer images distribution site
  cdimage.debian.org a long time ago, when that was all it
  published and most people downloaded images of CDs. Ummm. Things
  have moved on in the intervening years, and this name is looking
  more silly over time:
 
  * lots of people are using USB sticks * we're providing live
  images that don't fit on CD * we're providing cloud images
  (Openstack so far, with others coming soon!)
 
  So, I'm looking for suggestions. What should we call it? I had
  initially thought that images.debian.org is more generic, but
  it's also likely to confuse people into looking there for
  pictures... :-)
 
  Please reply and let's see if we can come up with a better name.
 
 
  - seedy-image.debian.org - mothership.debian.org - ftp.debian.org -
  image-master.debian.org - get.debian.org
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v2
 
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  =fve2
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
 

Re: Proposal: Drop ttf-cjk-compact, get fonts-droid

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 03:02:32AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
 Hi!
 
 Kenshi Muto km...@debian.org (2015-07-22):
  This is a proposal to replace ttf-cjk-compact with fonts-droid for
  next (Stretch) debian-installer.

As long as this is a change for debian-boot, and not for the installed 
Debian I have no problems with this.  But if it's for Debian itself, 
well, people may just prefer one set of fonts over the other for 
aesthetic reasons, and both should remain available.

-- hendrik


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Re: proofreading the installation-guide

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 09:06:03PM +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:
 Holger Wansing wrote:
  Justin B Rye justin.byam@gmail.com wrote:
  An interesting idea, but one that seems unlikely to work, especially
  given the way it's used in the text.  For instance, there's a page
  welcome/what-is-debian-linux.xml, which is full of sentences like
  debian; was the first Linux distribution to include a package
  management system.
  
  It was mostly me changing Debian into debian; that days in 2010.
  If I remember correctly, it was initiated by a post of Frans Pop,
  who proposed that change. And the rationale was in fact, to get a
  manual, that can easily be turned from a Debian installer manual into
  a Ubuntu installer manual, for example.
 
 Whoever it is that's reworking the manual for the derivative is still
 going to need to go through the whole text changing the content.  The
 debian; entity seems liable to cost us more effort than it saves them
 (a single extra search-and-replace operation).

If that was the case, it would be a single search-and-replace operation 
for you, too.

Just catch the ones you see while proofreading, leave the rest.
The Debian derivative's people will catch the ones you miss, and you 
can someday, *when there's time to do it*, diff your source with 
theirs to find the rest.

Of course, this is only for derivatives that use the same installer.
  
 
  And I can't see any particular pattern in when it's Debian
  installer, when it's debian; installer, and when it's d-i;.
  
  With the above been said, it should be as follows:
  In sentences which apply to Debian and also to its derivates, it should
  use debian; ,
  while in sentences which only apply to Debian and not to the derivates,
  it should be Debian.
 
  It was also my intention to make it that way indeed, but:
  1. I found out that the job was bigger than I first thought when taking it 
  over, leading to mistakes.
  2. due to the lack of manpower in the d-i team, especially the loss of 
  Frans,
  the d-i manual guru (amongst other roles), there was probably not enough 
  reviewing of that changes, and things may got overlooked.
 
 Oh, well, for now I'll plan on trying to get debian; into shape as
 part of my proofreading sweep - it would be easy enough to switch back
 from sometimes saying debian; to always saying Debian if we
 decide to give up on it.
 
  The debian-gnu; entity is effectively just shorthand for Debian
  GNU/arch-kernel; - confusing but handy.
 
 Wait, does it expand to Debian or debian;?
 
   The architecture;,
  arch-title; and arch-kernel; entities are slightly oddly named
 
 Since I keep losing track and having to check again, I'll leave a note
 for myself here:
 architecture; = 32-bit PC, 32-bit soft-float ARM, etc.
 arch-title; = i386, armel, etc.
 arch-kernel; = Linux, KFreeBSD, etc.
 
  but make sense as parametrisations, as do release; and
  releasename; as long as they're used for things that stay true for
  every release.  (Oh, and I've just noticed there's a
  releasename-cap;, used instead of plain releasename; for no
  obvious reason in hardware/supported/arm.xml and nowhere else.)
  
  But there are also special entities for enterkey;, escapekey;,
  tabkey;, f10key;, and even ekey;!  Most of these are only
  used once each - the rest of the time (and always for keys like F2
  or space) it just uses keycap.../keycap.
  
  That entities like 
  releasename-cap;
  enterkey;
  escapekey;
  tabkey;
  were created, to give translators a chance to follow the rules for their
  language there (for example, in German we write Jessie, Stretch or Unstable
  uppercase, while in English that's mostly lowercase: jessie, stretch, 
  unstable)
  or to have tab key translated into Tabulator-Taste for German, for
  example.
 
 Sorry, I don't follow.  Surely German needs *all* instances of
 releasename; to be capitalised?  How does it help to have some of
 them replaced in the text with releasename-cap;?
 
 And why is it any easier to provide translations for tabkey; than for
 keycodeTab/keycode?  Why would you need ones for f10key; and
 ekey;, but not keycodeF2/keycode or keycodeSpace/keycode?
  
 Hmm, I can imagine cases where the *English* version might benefit
 from having an entity indefinitearticle; that automatically selects
 either a or an depending on whether the following substituted-in
 word starts with a vowel sound!  But let's not.
 
  Globally said, there may be several occurrences of above things not
  being perfectly consistent, because there are many editors for the manual
  these days, but there is no Frans Pop anymore, watching the changings and 
  correcting things where needed.
 
  [PS included for convenience:]
  So I suppose it would be reasonable to put a comment in the document
  source explaining this, perhaps where these macros are defined, and
  making further changes as we discover the need and have time, possibly
  prompted by bug reports from Debian derivatives or forks, or 

Re: proofreading the installation-guide

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 07:00:27PM +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Justin B Rye justin.byam@gmail.com wrote:
  Hendrik Boom wrote:
   Justin B Rye wrote:
* entity questions - when am I meant to say Debian and when is it
debian;?  This like many of these entities seems to have no
obvious function other than to make the source harder to
interpret...
* The d-i; entity expands to debian-installer in bold verbatim
lowercase.  If that is in effect the brandname of the software
project then presumably we shouldn't be talking about the
d-i; - that ought to be the Debian installer.
   
   Presumably both of these parametrisations are for the convenience of 
   Debian derivatives and forks.  By making these macros, it's easier for 
   the, and it'll be easier for us to merge downstream patches.
  
  An interesting idea, but one that seems unlikely to work, especially
  given the way it's used in the text.  For instance, there's a page
  welcome/what-is-debian-linux.xml, which is full of sentences like
  debian; was the first Linux distribution to include a package
  management system.
 
 It was mostly me changing Debian into debian; that days in 2010.
 If I remember correctly, it was initiated by a post of Frans Pop,
 who proposed that change. And the rationale was in fact, to get a
 manual, that can easily be turned from a Debian installer manual into
 a Ubuntu installer manual, for example.
 
  And I can't see any particular pattern in when it's Debian
  installer, when it's debian; installer, and when it's d-i;.
 
 With the above been said, it should be as follows:
 In sentences which apply to Debian and also to its derivates, it should
 use debian; ,
 while in sentences which only apply to Debian and not to the derivates,
 it should be Debian.
 
 It was also my intention to make it that way indeed, but:
 1. I found out that the job was bigger than I first thought when taking it 
 over, leading to mistakes.
 2. due to the lack of manpower in the d-i team, especially the loss of Frans,
 the d-i manual guru (amongst other roles), there was probably not enough 
 reviewing of that changes, and things may got overlooked.
 
  The debian-gnu; entity is effectively just shorthand for Debian
  GNU/arch-kernel; - confusing but handy.  The architecture;,
  arch-title; and arch-kernel; entities are slightly oddly named
  but make sense as parametrisations, as do release; and
  releasename; as long as they're used for things that stay true for
  every release.  (Oh, and I've just noticed there's a
  releasename-cap;, used instead of plain releasename; for no
  obvious reason in hardware/supported/arm.xml and nowhere else.)
  
  But there are also special entities for enterkey;, escapekey;,
  tabkey;, f10key;, and even ekey;!  Most of these are only
  used once each - the rest of the time (and always for keys like F2
  or space) it just uses keycap.../keycap.
 
 That entities like 
 releasename-cap;
 enterkey;
 escapekey;
 tabkey;
 were created, to give translators a chance to follow the rules for their
 language there (for example, in German we write Jessie, Stretch or Unstable
 uppercase, while in English that's mostly lowercase: jessie, stretch, 
 unstable)
 or to have tab key translated into Tabulator-Taste for German, for
 example.
 
 
 Globally said, there may be several occurrences of above things not
 being perfectly consistent, because there are many editors for the manual
 these days, but there is no Frans Pop anymore, watching the changings and 
 correcting things where needed.
 

So I suppose it would be reasonable to put a comment in the document 
source explaining this, perhaps where these macros are defined, and 
making further changes as we discover the need and have time, possibly 
prompted by bug reports from Debian derivatives or forks, or even just 
doing a diff between our d-i manual and some of the derivatives'

-- hendrik


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Re: Proposal: Drop ttf-cjk-compact, get fonts-droid

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:26:02PM +0900, Kenshi Muto wrote:
...
 
 Cons:
  - increases +2MB for each graphical initrd.
jessie-amd64/cdrom/gtk/initrd.gz: 25557641 - 281535694
Presumably there's a typo here -- this is a tenfold increase!

 hd-media/gtk/initrd.gz: 27747025 - 30340894
 netboot/gtk/initrd.gz: 34425758 - 37539446
 netboot/gtk/mini.iso: 49283072 - 52428800
  - Some Japanese characters look bit funny.
(I believe it is negligible for installer.)


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Re: proofreading the installation-guide

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 01:15:18PM +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:

  * entity questions - when am I meant to say Debian and when is it
   debian;?  This like many of these entities seems to have no
   obvious function other than to make the source harder to
   interpret...
  * The d-i; entity expands to debian-installer in bold verbatim
   lowercase.  If that is in effect the brandname of the software
   project then presumably we shouldn't be talking about the
   d-i; - that ought to be the Debian installer.

Presumably both of these parametrisations are for the convenience of 
Debian derivatives and forks.  By making these macros, it's easier for 
the, and it'll be easier for us to merge downstream patches.

-- hendrik


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Re: proofreading the installation-guide

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 02:37:45PM +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:
 Hendrik Boom wrote:
  Justin B Rye wrote:
   * entity questions - when am I meant to say Debian and when is it
 debian;?  This like many of these entities seems to have no
 obvious function other than to make the source harder to
 interpret...
   * The d-i; entity expands to debian-installer in bold verbatim
 lowercase.  If that is in effect the brandname of the software
 project then presumably we shouldn't be talking about the
 d-i; - that ought to be the Debian installer.
  
  Presumably both of these parametrisations are for the convenience of 
  Debian derivatives and forks.  By making these macros, it's easier for 
  the, and it'll be easier for us to merge downstream patches.
 
 An interesting idea, but one that seems unlikely to work, especially
 given the way it's used in the text.  For instance, there's a page
 welcome/what-is-debian-linux.xml, which is full of sentences like
 debian; was the first Linux distribution to include a package
 management system.

It makes me wonder whether this was originally the intention, but has 
become lost as generations of editors failed to follow up on it.

-- hendrik


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Bug#791794: RAID device not active during boot

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 10:16:15AM +0200, Nagel, Peter (IFP) wrote:
 The problem might be related to
 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=789152.
 However, in my case everything seems to be fine as long as all
 harddisks (within the RAID) are working.
 The Problem appears only if during boot one (or more) disk(s) out of
 the RAID device have a problem.
 
 The problem might be related to the fact that jessie comes with a
 new init system which has a stricter handling of failing auto
 mounts during boot. If it fails to mount an auto mount, systemd
 will drop to an emergency shell rather than continuing the boot -
 see release-notes (section 5.6.1):
 https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system

Would a temporary work-around be to use another init system?

 
 For example:
 If you have installed your system to a RAID1 device and the system
 is faced with a power failure which (might at the same time) causes
 a damage to one of your harddisks (out of this RAID1 device) your
 system will (during boot) drop to an emergency shell rather than
 boot from the remaining harddisk(s).
 I found that during boot (for some reason) the RAID device is not
 active anymore and therefore not available within /dev/disk/by-uuid
 (what causes the drop to the emergency shell).
 
 A quickfix (to boot the system) would be, to re-activate the RAID
 device (e.g. /dev/md0) from the emergency shell ...
 
 mdadm --stop /dev/md0
 mdadm --assemble /dev/md0
 
 ... and to exit the shell.
 
 Nevertheless, it would be nice if the system would boot
 automatically (as it is known to happend under wheezy) in order to
 be able to use e.g. a spare disk for data synchronization.

After all, isn't it the whole point of a RAID1 that it can keep going when 
one of its hard drives fails?

I currently have this situation on a wheezy system, and it will continue
until I have the replacement physical drive prepared for installation.  The
RAID1 is running fine with just one physical drive.  It would be 
seriously inconvenient to be unable to boot in a straightforward manner.
It's not as if it's being quiet about the matter -- I keep getting 
emails elling me that one of the drives is missing.

-- hendrik


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Re: [preseed] multiple disks, rules to select the smallest one

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 12:11:26PM -0400, Sandro Tosi wrote:
...
 In order to avoid writing a custom preseed file all the times, we're
 wondering if there is already a policy that would instruct d-i to use
 the smallest physical drive on the system as the one to partition and
 use for installation or alternatively how we should write our
 preseed.cfg to obtain that (eventually with some early_command?).

the smallest drive?  Like, for example, the floopy disk?

-- hendrik


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Re: Bug#783358: installation-reports: Debian 8 CD - Graphical install is not the default (installation guide says it should be)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 11:31:20PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
 (Not sure why To/Cc were changed this way, but replying there anyway…)
 
 Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com (2015-05-04):
  On Sun, May 03, 2015 at 10:22:17PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
   Hello,
   
   Holger Wansing li...@wansing-online.de (2015-05-03):
So, shall I revert the manual back to text install is default?
   
   Yes please. I asked Didier to keep an eye on it but he pretended being
   busy with other topics. ;)
  
  On the off-chance that this is a francism in English, and someone 
  might be offended, 'pretended' in English means 'acted as if', 
  whereas 'pretendre' in French means 'to claim', or to 'assert'.  I 
  presume that Didier was really busy with other topics, rather than 
  acting as if he was busy.
 
 Without claiming to master all aspects of the English language, I think
 I meant what I wrote.
 
 Pretty sure Didier can react on his own if he feels offended by casual
 teasing followed by a smiley (and preceded by the same kind of remark
 in an earlier IRC conversation)…
 
 
 KiBi.

That's fine, then.

When I first moved to Quebec and started reading stuff and listening 
to the radio in both languages I found myself pretty confused the news 
I was reading because of the persistent use of 'pretend' and 
'pretendre' as translaatis for each other.  It took a while before I 
figured out what was happening.

It's pretty common here, but not elsewhere, to hear 'pretend' used in 
English with the wrong meaning.

In fact the 'claim' meaning has survived in orthodox English in the 
archaic phrase 'pretender to the throne'.  My grade school English 
teacher was puzzled why anyone would be upset about someone 
merely pretending to be king.  It wasn't until decades later that I 
figured out what was going on with the word.

-- hendrik


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Re: Bug#783358: installation-reports: Debian 8 CD - Graphical install is not the default (installation guide says it should be)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, May 03, 2015 at 10:22:17PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Holger Wansing li...@wansing-online.de (2015-05-03):
  So, shall I revert the manual back to text install is default?
 
 Yes please. I asked Didier to keep an eye on it but he pretended being
 busy with other topics. ;)

On the off-chance that this is a francism in English, and someone 
might be offended, 'pretended' in English means 'acted as if', 
whereas 'pretendre' in French means 'to claim', or to 'assert'.  I 
presume that Didier was really busy with other topics, rather than 
acting as if he was busy.

 
  (Or will the default be changed with a point release of Jessie,
  or something like that? In that case it's probably not worse to
  change the manual.)
 
 Such a change in jessie wouldn't seem reasonable to me.
 
 Mraw,
 KiBi.



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Re: Bug#764982: Backports, where is the danger (why the FUD)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 08:26:10AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
 
 While we're at it, it would be nice to have the same Only if I
 explicitly ask for it feature for non-free (and probably contrib).
 I may be willing to compromise my freedom in order to get my laptop wifi
 working, on the basis that I could always buy a better wifi card, but
 that does not mean I want anything else out of non-free.

There is a case to me made that the documentation in non-free, 
especially that released uneder the GNU Free Documentation Licence with  
invariant parts, might be a special case here.

-- hendrik


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Re: Package versioning and upgrades

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 06:50:22AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
 Wouter Verhelst wou...@debian.org (2015-03-28):
  Alternatively, you could use release version numbers rather than code names:
  
  0.6.3-1.3-1~Debian7 (rather than wheezy), and
  0.6.3-1.3-1~Debian8 (rather than jessie)
 
 Using the same scheme as stable  security updates might be a good
 idea instead of inventing another versioning scheme?
 
 Meaning ~deb7u1 or +deb7u1 for the first upload to wheezy, ~deb7u2 or
 +deb7u2 for the next one; as for jessie, use ~deb8u1 or +deb8u1 for
 the first upload, etc.

And people better not rely on these being in alphabetical order, 
they'll run into trouble transitioning 9 and 10.

The advantage of code names is that no one would assume jessie is later 
in alphabetical order than wheezy.

Protection for idiots.

-- hendrik


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Re: [d-i manual] copyright declaration

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 04:51:11PM +, peter green wrote:
 On 22/03/15 13:36, Holger Wansing wrote:
 Hi,
 
 is there a reason why the year for copyright declaration should not be
 converted into an entity?
 Would ease the repeating changing.
 
 Patch attached, works for both xml and po based translations.
 Correct me if I'm wrong here but shouldn't the copyright year only
 be updated when there is an actual change?

Yes.  I believe the copyright year is supposed to be the year of first 
publication.  Which is why books updated frequently usually have 
multiple copyright years, one for each year new stuff got added.  
You get a notice like copyright 1968, 1979, 1997, 2014.

-- hendrik


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Re: [d-i manual] copyright declaration

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:43:49AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
 On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 04:51:11PM +, peter green wrote:
  On 22/03/15 13:36, Holger Wansing wrote:
  Hi,
  
  is there a reason why the year for copyright declaration should not be
  converted into an entity?
  Would ease the repeating changing.
  
  Patch attached, works for both xml and po based translations.
  Correct me if I'm wrong here but shouldn't the copyright year only
  be updated when there is an actual change?
 
 Yes.  I believe the copyright year is supposed to be the year of first 
 publication.  Which is why books updated frequently usually have 
 multiple copyright years, one for each year new stuff got added.  
 You get a notice like copyright 1968, 1979, 1997, 2014.

It might be possible to automate getting some of this information from 
revision control.

-- hendrik


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Re: translations for d-i manual [ Was: Re: Status of D-I translations... ]

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 08:48:47PM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Christian PERRIER bubu...@debian.org wrote:
  It means that we're indeed left with about only 10 languages that
  happen to be complete - those where translators act on their own and
  know what to do to get a fully translated D-I.
  
  For others, most of the time, the registered person with commit access
  either vanished or doesn't care anymore for D-I to be fully
  translated.
 
 The situation for the d-i manual is similar: we have some languages,
 that did not receive no or nearly no translation updates since the 
 release of Wheezy. 
 Should those languages be deactivated?
 These are:japanese (no update since 17 months)
   russian (no update since 24 months)
   swedish (no update since 2 years 7 months)
   vietnamese (no update since 2 years 7 months)
   chinese zh_CN (no update since 2 years 3 months)
 All of them are po-based translations, so the manuals are strictly
 spoken not outdated (changed paragraphs fall-back to english), but it of
 no good use for users probably?

Well, if I had a choice between a manual thta was all in a foreign 
language and one that was half in a foreign language and half in mine, 
I'd prefer the one that was half in mine.

-- hendrik
k


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Re: Bug#768657: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#768657: sysvinit: Please provide xen virtual console in inittab

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 02:41:27PM -0500, Gedalya wrote:
 
 On 11/10/2014 01:43 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 02:39:28AM -0500, Gedalya wrote:
 On 11/10/2014 02:19 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
 It's not for the sysvinit-core package to fix up the installer's handling 
 of
 consoles, when sysvinit-core is not installed.  Reassigning this to the
 debian-installer package.
 And how could it possibly be debian-installer's job to modify a file that is
 part of your package, when the package is not installed?
 I find your response incomprehensible. This bug is about making sure
 inittab, part of sysvinit-core, supports the console on the platform is is
 running on.
 Currently sysvinit-core is defective in not doing so. My comment about
 debian-installer was just so that you could see an example for code that
 handles this, and it explains why the maintainers of this package
 coincidentally haven't had to worry about this problem thus far.
 One way or another, to reproduce this problem all one needs to do is to
 install sysvinit-core on a xen VM, with debian-installer nowhere in sight.
 I also don't understand why #745260 was fixed (exactly the same problem) and
 this one somehow not.
 Ok, I misunderstood what the bug was that you were reporting.  I thought you
 were saying that the installer sets up /etc/inittab, but that this doesn't
 cause the console to work on systems where sysvinit-core is not being
 installed.
 
 I think fixing bug #745260 in sysvinit-core is dubious; I really think that
 the console setup should be done as part of the installer, not as part of
 init's maintainer scripts.  However, since we are no longer installing
 sysvinit-core, it's a legitimate question whether the installer should be
 changed to create /etc/inittab on its own if it doesn't already exist, or if
 the installer should entirely hand over control of this file to the sysvinit
 package.
 
 I think we should get input from the installer team on this.
 
 I don't really see how it makes sense to create an /etc/inittab when
 we're installing systemd (silently and without asking). Without
 sysvinit, inittab doesn't belong there and doesn't make sense. The
 way I see it, the only way the installer can be of help here is if
 it is changed to prompt the user for his init system choice, which
 AFAIK wasn't the decision so far.. though it would please me very
 much!
 Otherwise we're sort of pre-creating a file for a hypothetical purpose..

Are there any other inits that use /etc/inittab?  With the plethoors of 
inits that have showed up over the past decades, it wouldn't surprise 
me at all if some of them were compatible in this respect.

Would it make sense to put /etc/inittab into annother package that 
sysvinit-core depends on?  The way things look right now, with systemd 
being installed against their wishes, sysvinit users are being told to 
install sysvinit-core after installation, when they have finally booted 
the target system.  This way, /etc/inittab would be installed for them 
at the same time.

Any other inits could have the same dependency, as apropriate.

-- hendrik


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Re: Bug#762614: stop preseeding desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 08:26:32PM +0100, Steven Chamberlain wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On 14:59, Joey Hess wrote:
  Once tasksel 3.27 is in testing, but not before, d-i should stop
  preseeding desktop=xfce for kfreebsd and hurd. This version of tasksel
  defaults to xfce for those architectures and will handle any other
  architecture variations in a single place.
 
 Agreed, although we should try evaluate if XFCE is still the best
 default for these (and perhaps find something that caters to other
 situations where GNOME isn't viable)

After all this time (what is it?  over a year now?) I thought the 
new Gnome might have improved and become viable.  I tried it last weekend.
It still isn't viable. I can't even figure out how to log out.  Not 
what I want a beginner confronted with.

-- hendrik

 
 I've created a spin-off page to discuss alternatives:
 https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Alternative/Jessie
 
 Regards,
 -- 
 Steven Chamberlain
 ste...@pyro.eu.org
 
 
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Re: Bug#712907: grub-installer: No longer installs automatically on a normal machine with one hard drive

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 09:39:24PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
 Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org (2014-09-10):
  3. for a user who blindly hits enter, they get our best guess to the
  correct device (instead of a bare now enter a device path prompt)
 
 Please stop pretending it's a best guess. IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH, and
 it has been known for *years*.
 
  But I haven't actually tested it yet :)
 
 Many users already have… and wedged their installation images.
 
 Slightly tired of repeating myself.
 KiBi.

Does the installer no longer know to what device it installed the 
Debian system?  Perhaps where it put /boot?  Might *that* be 
a good place to put the bootloader? 

-- hendrik


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Re: Use dedicated partition for /boot/grub instead of /boot

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 09:45:03PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
 2014/08/18 14:57 Christopher Chavez 2000...@gmail.com:
 
  Questions:
 
  1. Is it the case that the only reason for having a separate /boot was to
  provide easy access /boot/grub? I.e., was it intentional to provide easy
 access
  to kernels as well?
 
 I guess it depends on what you mean by easy access. If you mean, to keep
 the kernel where it can be easily found by the boot manager, yeah, that's
 one of the big reasons.

Old systems used to have a strong restriction on which part of the hard 
drive could be read by the initial firmware bootloader.  The exact 
boundary changed from time to time, as the dcades wore on, but there 
was such a restriction often enough that some measure wsas needed so 
that the initial boot would sastisfy this restriction.  The easy way to 
manage this was to have a separte partition for the these files, and 
place it near the start of the hard drive.  Hence /boot was born.

It's probably wise to keep /boot for this purpose, since one of these 
years we're going to hit the next order-of-magitude restriction.  
But just what files are subject to such a restriction, and what the 
file format of that partition should be probably depende on the 
firmware-level bootloader.

At the moment, /boot and the EFI partition seem to have boot-time 
restrictions, either because of firmware or bootloader restrictions.

-- hendrik


 
 That information used to be a lot more available, until some IPidiots
 started trying to claim rights to it.

IPidiots?  Can I have more details or a reference on these IPidiots?

-- hendrik


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Re: Re: the audio group

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 05:20:19PM +0200, Floris wrote:
 
 how about users who will login remotely? They also have full access to
 all the audio devices, even when they don't able to hear the music,
 because the speaker is on the other side of the world.

Remote login might be from a computer that's just on the other side of the room.

-- hendrik


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Re: Use dedicated partition for /boot/grub instead of /boot

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:40:13AM -0500, Christopher Chavez wrote:
 
 2. Would it be a better idea to only have /boot/grub, instead of /boot, on a
 separate partition? (I can confirm that it works both when installing and in
 existing setups, i.e. grub-install and update-grub both work as expected.)

If it's separate partition, it could be shared between several different
bootable Linux systems.  Might this actually work, given that files in
.boot/grub might end up being updated by any of them?  Which might 
actually be what we want?  

-- hendrik


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:22:01PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
 
 I just had a look at an online hardware store.
 Out of their 682 laptops and 332 desktops: 
   * 1 model has 1 GiB 
   * 48 models have 2 GiB 
   * 470 models have 4 GiB 
   * 495 have 6 GiB or more
 
 Which means 0,1% of the machines you can buy are not able to run a web
 browser anyway,  5% are more than enough for a full-fledged GNOME+web
 browser, and all the rest are very comfortable with anything you can run
 under Linux.

I must be in the 0.1% then.  I have a 1GB machine.  I have no trouble
running Chrome or Chromium.  Or even both of those at the same time.
But then, I'm using XFCE instead of Gnome.

-- hendrik


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 10:23:38AM +0001, Anthony F McInerney wrote:
 
 And if it's machines in the wild with CD drives still again, we
 have woody, squeeze and wheezy for them.

Does woody still have security support?   In not, there are many old 
machines for which it is no longer an alternative.

Whatever the chosen DE is, though, the installer should cater to 
installation on machines with scare resources, and the ways to get it 
to do so should be evident to the user.

-- hendrik


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 01:35:28PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:34:04PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
 
 Or even showing them at all (certainly last time I bothered to look at
 gnome 3 it seemed to think buttons on windows were mostly to be avoided).
 
  People who are so afraid of new stuff to learn that they won't even figure
  out how to close a window are not Gnome's (or XFCE's, for that matter)
  target audience.

They may well not be Gnome's target audience.
We should not inflict Gnome on them.

  If you want that, install KDE and tell it to use one of the
  let's-mimic-Windows/MacOS themes.
 
 xfce is perfectly useable to most people by default.
 
 All I personally expect from a window manager is:
 
 Be able to launch programs (ideally using alt+F2)
 Be able to resize the window using the edge of the window
 Have a maximize/restore button
 Have a minimize button
 Have a close button
 (These last 3 should also show up when I hit alt+space, because well I
 have used that keystroke on many systems for over 20 years to do that).
 
 That's it.  I don't need any more than that.  Gnome 3 failed that out
 of the box.

It looks as if Lennart Sorensen is not in Gnome's target audience.
But I'd say he is definitely in Debian's target audience.

-- hendrik

 


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Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 02:03:39AM +0200, Kees de Jong wrote:
 Are we really comparing RAM here as if it were the 90's? How many people
 here use Android? Today it needs 512 MB to function properly. In two years
 that could be 1 or 2 GB and that's a mobile OS. How much RAM does your
 browser use? My Chrome/Firefox easily uses 1 GB. My GNOME 3.10 desktop
 (running Fedora now because I needed a modern GNOME version for Exchange
 support for work) is using about 800 MB to 1200 MB. Do I really care? No,
 because RAM is cheap and I have 8 GB. Do I need to buy more? No, because 8
 GB is still more than enough.

My everyday system has 1 GiB.  Can't even put more than 2 on it if I were to 
try.
I use XFCE.

The question about the default isn't whether *my* system can run it.
It's whether the novice will get an installed system he cannot use.
At the very least the installer should tell him to select something 
small (and tell him what it is) on a small machine, instead  of blindly 
installing Gnome.  

-- hendrik


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Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 12:47:14PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:

  
 I would have thought it better to have a two level structure, where you are
 asked for instance if you want a database, and if you select it you are
 then asked which one (which can have a default for newbies).  Similarly for
 desktop you would be asked XFCE/Gnome/KDE.

You could even ask the user at install time whether he wants
  (a) a small, efficient, usable desktop that takes care of only the 
  essentials, or
  (b) a large, full-featured, usable desktop that may take a lot 
  of download time and disk space, or even
  (c) (not recommended unless you're a developer and know what this is) 
  none of the above, just a bare CLI.

Or at least provide this information in some obvious way so that the 
beginner has some idea what he may be getting into; he probably has no 
idea what the words xfce and gnome mean.

-- hendrik


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Re: Captive laptop

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 08:14:48AM -0800, Schlacta, Christ wrote:
 On Feb 28, 2014 7:59 AM, Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
 wrote:
 
  On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 07:41:39AM -0700, R Edwards wrote:
   Hello,
   I have a persistent problem and I was hoping that the Debian install
 discs would solve it.  I have a new laptop with Windows 8 on it (was
 purchased for the hardware) and Windows is holding it prisoner.  I am
 unable to install any other Operating system on it whatsoever including
 Debian 7.4 that I downloaded from this site.  It will not allow the 'test'
 with no files installed or the full installation. I am not exactly a
 computer newbie but have only 'new' level of linux background.  I have
 tried six different OS packages from two or three different devices for
 installs and all have failed.  Windows 8 will not let any install.  Any
 chance you have an ISO that will produce a dvd disc that can be bootable
 from a bare harddrive.  The 7.4 version I downloaded gets an 'invalid
 media' message and I have tried more than one copy/download/version with
 the same results.  In the attempt to run from dvd without installing files,
 get a 'try compatibility settings' message that always fails.  I am
 apparently not the only one with this problem.  Please help.  I NEED my
 computer without the Windows garbage taking control of it.  I am even
 willing to pay for a 'guaranteed' installation disc but I try it before I
 pay as I feel Windows will defeat all comers at this point.  Looking
 forward to being proved wrong!  When I bought the laptop, I never dreamed
 that it would take months to attempt to get Windows off of it and still be
 failing.  I feel like billing Microsoft for taking my laptop prisoner but
 that would get me as far as this installation is gettingnowhere.
 
  If you download the installer (say DVD-1 iso or netinstall iso) and then
  burn it as an image to the DVD:
 
 
 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows7/burn-a-cd-or-dvd-from-an-iso-file
 
  So windows can do that apparently.
 
  It should then be bootable, but of course you have to tell the
  BIOS/EFI/whatever you have, to boot from the DVD drive.
 
 You may also have to disable secure boot.

(1) Disabling secure boot is apparently something you can do from 
within Windows.

(2) Does the laptop have and an intel processor?  Or an ARM processor?  
If it's an ARM processor you'd have to use the appropriate ARM version 
of Linux.  But you're probably still be out of luck -- some time ago 
Microsoft announced that Windows 8 on an ARM processor will be totally 
locked down.  As far as I know that hasn't been cracked yet.

-- hendrik


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Re: install/run problems with Debian 7.1.0

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:34:08AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
 On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:29:35PM -0800, John wrote:
 
  PROBLEM 2: Your hardware setup is generally very good, but recent changes 
  in video detection and setup by Linux developers mess up in handling older 
  video cards/chips and monitors. As a result, Debian 7.1.0 has a 
  correct-resolution correct-refresh setup for my monitor for installation, 
  but sets my video improperly for regular use. I think the video refresh is 
  set too high. It produces some snow on my CRT monitor and just doesn't 
  look right, and there doesn't seem to be any graphic tool in Gnome 3 to 
  change these settings. Some code in the installation to let the user select 
  the desired screen video settings would be nice. If that isn't available, 
  upgrading to Debian 7 isn't such a good idea. You can do the right video 
  settings---the installation display proves it. Just leave it as is if it's 
  satisfactory.
 
 X setup is pretty much automatic these days and doesn't even need a
 config file anymore unless you want to override what X does automatically.
 Not an installer issue anyhow, since that is managed by X.

Let me try to translate the complaint into your terminology.

I think he's complaining that the installer gets X configuration right 
for its own use, but wrong for the installed system, where apparently X 
gets it wrong,

There's some plausibility to the claim that the installed system 
*should* be able to get things as right as the installer.
Maybe this isn't as much an installer problem than an installed systen 
problemm.  Presumably whatever code the installer uses at install 
time should also be part of X, or whatever setup happens at boot 
time.

It' a bit ironic that the complaint should be against the piece of code 
that actually does get it right, but I guess that's life.

-- hendrik


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Re: Bug#718855: [Pkg-xfce-devel] network-manager-gnome - full gnome recommends chain

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 10:29:10AM +0200, Per Olofsson wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 23:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
  Both recommends are there for a reason. gnome-bluetooth relies heavily
  on gnome-control-center when you try to pair / manage devices and
  network-manager-applet relies on gnome-bluetooth for DUN and PAN
  connections. So no, I don't see those recommends go away.
 
 According to policy, The Recommends field should list packages that
 would be found together with this one in all but unusual
 installations.
 
 Is it really unusual to use Network Manager without bluetooth? Doesn't
 most people use Network Manager to connect to wifi and ethernet?

I certainly use xfce and the network manager, and I've even shut 
bluetooth off in the BIOS.

-- hendrik


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Re: your mail

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Aug 07, 2013 at 07:36:28PM -0700, Alan Hutchinson wrote:
 Hi there My name is Alan Hutchinson and I would like to install Debian on a
 raid 0 system that I have at home , on my home network that I created, I
 have bean reading up on some of the things that I will need to complete a
 successful install, for example the raid manager (MDADM) and you also
 mentioned 
 DebianInstaller does not include a driver for my xyz network card, but I
 have (tarball) driver sources. What are the steps for building that driver?

My home server has a RAID for most of its storage.  It's a software RAID.  
WHen I bought the controller card for my machine (so I could get more SATA 
drives on it) it turned out to be a RAID controller.   I completely ignored 
its RAID capabilities,  opting to use Debian's excellent md support instead.

I created large primary partitions on my IDE hard drives to contain one RAID, 
and large partitions on my 3-terabyte drives for the second RAID.  Yes, 
that's right, two independent RAIDS -- the IDE drives for legacy stuff, the 
new 3T drives for newer (ald larger) stuff.  My long-term plans are for the 
IDE drives to be replaced by still bigger drives in a year or two when they 
become necessary.

And within those RAIDs I used LVM for flexibility in allocating partitions 
of flexible size.  

To make everything work smoothly, hpwever, it helped to
  (a) use gdisk instead of fdisk onthe new huge drives. fdisk doesn't work 
anh more in 3T drives -- they're too big.
  (b) make sure that there was a working boot partition outside of the 
RAID. Some bootloaders had problems with boot partitions on LVM on RAID.
  (c) made sure that the first physical partition on the drive contianing 
/boot starte *after* the first cylinder.  Apparently LILO now needed more 
space than it used to, and it needs to invade the first cylinder.
  (d) I use the badblocks program to do a full-surface destructive read-write 
test of every disk drive I buy.  Yes, it can take longer than a week, so I 
buy them one at a time, even if I plan to use them in pairs.  But about 20% 
of them fail the test, and are immediately exchanged.  I no longer worry that 
I'm being excessively paranoid.

I'm now testing my second USB backup drive.  My plan it to keep at least one 
backup drive off-site at all times.  I use rdiff-backup; it keeps history.
 
Also, I made sure I could boot from either grub2 in the usual manner, 
or from LILO on a floppy.  I test them regularly to make sure they 
both work.  If either ever fails during an upgrade, I still have the other. 

Finally, I'm doing the whole thing using wheezy.  It seems to be the first 
Debian release that fully supports disk hardware write blocks -- even 
through LVM -- so that file systems like ext3 and ext4 have a reasonable 
chance of processing their journals properly even in the presence of 
unexpected power failures.

-- hendrik

 
 A: It's possible to do this, but we do not yet have good end-user docs
 explaining how to do so. We're waiting for an end user to accomplish it and
 write them from experience. We're glad to help you through the process, I
 have a brand new D-LINK 2320 that I would like  to install with  Debian
 installation, I have not tried to do an LSPCI-V on the raid hardware as
 yet, I can do that with PUREDYNE, and send you the data ,  B.F.N  Alan
 Hutchinson .

-- hendrik


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Re: Bug#718698: [os-prober] ReiserFS support

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 03:32:23PM +0200, Francesco Muzio wrote:
 if the Debian installer doesn't allow the use of reiserFS this mean
 that there will be no new users with this filesystem. But old users
 (like me) could survive (silently) again for few years.

Shouldn't os-prober at least be able to recognise OS's that use reiser 
as other OS's?


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Re: task-desktop: default desktop environment for Jessie

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 08:42:00PM +0100, Steven Chamberlain wrote:
 On 02/06/13 20:27, Hendrik Boom wrote:
  If someone wants to have gnome or KDE anyway, he's can acquire a second 
  CD, or access the net after installing packages from the first CD, or 
  use a DVD or USB key or something bigger.
 
 That's an interesting idea... if CD-1 was XFCE, would it contain enough
 of the common/base packages that only one additional CD is needed to
 complete either a GNOME or a KDE desktop?

Which additional CD you would need anyway for GNME and KDE.

-- hendrik


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Re: task-desktop: default desktop environment for Jessie

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 07:36:35PM +0100, Brian Potkin wrote:
 On Fri 31 May 2013 at 15:11:50 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
 
  On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
   Michael Gilbert mgilb...@debian.org (31/05/2013):
   It would probably be good to get that discussion started early during
   this cycle to reduce the surprise factor.
  
   Since it was rather difficult to fit gnome onto 1 cd in wheezy (and I
   think some pieces were left off anyway), I think it makes sense now to
   start moving toward something like xfce as the default that's small,
   and mostly capable, and 4.10 (now making its way into unstable) brings
   much needed accessibility features.
  
   A somewhat related question is whether we're going to keep trying to
   fit stuff onto CD#1, as opposed to moving to supporting various “USB
   key sizes”. If I'm not mistaken, Steve has expressed such a wish (or
   intent) during the last wheezy preparation steps.
  
  As a point of reference, I still have (and use every now and then) an
  old laptop that has a cd-rom but no dvd-rom, and its bios does not
  support usb booting.
 
 I have two desktops and a laptop (not all that old, five years) which do
 not entertain booting from USB. So you learn to be resourceful.
 
 For Debian we have the hd-media kernel and initrd. grub-mkrescue will
 make an iso with them and include a grub.cfg. iso-scan will find
 whatever ISO you choose to put on another USB stick. I hope Debian will
 continue to support those of us have such 'ancient' machines.
 
 Eventually, we are going to run out of ideas or patience with fitting a
 useful GNOME, KDE etc on CD#1. Its a lost battle. This is the time for
 innovation. Get it discussed and decided now and not two or three months
 before the next release.

If gnome or KDE doesn't fit on the first CD, it makes no sense to 
pretend it does.  Put something that *does* fit on the first CD.  It's 
perfectly possible to put the packages for a viable Linux system on a 
single CD, but you'd need a desktop that takes less CD space.

If someone wants to have gnome or KDE anyway, he's can acquire a second 
CD, or access the net after installing packages from the first CD, or 
use a DVD or USB key or something bigger.

I'm not in favour of software bloat.  Let those who are use the second 
CD or another installation medium.

-- hendrik


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wheezy installation and upgrades?

[Hendrik Boom]

Now that we have the first release candidate for the wheezy installer,
is it also the time to make another serious try at upgrading
squuze to wheezy?  Is the infrastructure ready for this?

I've tried the upgrade before last year, with diappointing results, 
each time reverting to squeeze in order to have a working system.
Still, my long-term testing=wheezy systems, updated continually since 
squeeze went stable, hae always run just fine.  The big leap seems
to be trouble.

-- hendrik


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Bug#262070: failed installation report

[Hendrik Boom]

Package: installation-reports

Debian-installer-version: 
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/daily/i386/20040727/sarge-i386-netinst.iso
 
uname -a: Linux lovesong 2.4.26-1-386 #2 Sat May 1 16:31:24 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
Date: 2004 07 28 at about 3P.M. EDT
Method: 
Used SBM to boot from the CD I burned from the above-mentioned .iso image.
Never got as far as reaching the network.

Machine: ASUS motherboard
Processor:, Athlon processor, 1600 MHz.
Memory: 1 gigabyte
Root Device: an IDE DVD drive, reading from a CD-ROM.
Root Size/partition table: 
Root partition is /dev/hda3, 8.5 Gigabytes.  The entire sarge system
is being installed within this partition, including
/home, /boot, and everything.  It is formatted during installation
with the reiser file system.
/dev/hda4 contains a working woody system.  It works perfectly
before and after the sarge installation.
/dev/hda1 contains a working Windows ME system.  It works just as
badly before and after installation.,

Output of lspci:
:00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8366/A/7 [Apollo KT266/A/333]
:00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8366/A/7 [Apollo KT266/A/333 AGP]
:00:0d.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller 
(rev 46)
:00:0e.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 
RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
:00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20265 (FastTrak100 
Lite/Ultra100) (rev 02)
:00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller 
(rev 80)
:00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller 
(rev 80)
:00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller 
(rev 80)
:00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 82)
:00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 ISA Bridge
:00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C 
PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
:00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 
AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc R200 BB [Radeon All in 
Wonder 8500DV]

Base System Installation Checklist:

Initial boot worked:[O]
Configure network HW:   [E]
Config network: [E]
Detect CD:  [O]
Load installer modules: [O]
Detect hard drives: [O]
Partition hard drives:  [O]
Create file systems:[O]
Mount partitions:   [O]
Install base system:[O]
Install boot loader:[O]
Reboot: [O]
[O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it

Comments/Problems:

Description of the install, in prose, and any thoughts, comments
  and ideas you had during the initial install.

My experiences are quite similar to those I had with the Beta-4
installer I tried yesterday and reported on in bug#261745.

Everything went smoothly, except:
After the reboot I about 16 complaints of the form:

NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out
eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x45E1

When I specified the Debian mirror I wanted to use, and it tried to
reach the site, I again got these messages, after which it informed
me that the mirror was unreachable.  Methinks it is /dev/eth0 that is
unreachable.  The messages continued sporadically until I rebooted out
of the installation.

Please let me know what additional actins you would like me to take
to diagnose this problem.  I suspect it may not be a problem with the
installer per se, but perhaps with some of the software being installed.
My woody system, on the same machine in partition /dev/hda4, works
perfectly.

For completeness, here is the routing table (obtained by route -n):

Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
172.25.1.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0
0.0.0.0 172.25.1.1  0.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0

and here's the output from ifconfig:

eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:0A:E6:55:93:CD  
  inet addr:172.25.1.4  Bcast:172.25.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
  Interrupt:18 Base address:0xb400 

loLink encap:Local Loopback  
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:96 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:96 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:8688 (8.4 KiB)  TX bytes:8688 (8.4 KiB)

I have a woody system on partition /dev/hda4, and it gives me the same

Bug#261745: bug#262070

[Hendrik Boom]

I repeated the installation with a recent daily build,
it failed in the same way, so the bug is not just an
obsolete beta-4 bug.  See bug#262070 for a more recent installation
report.

-- hendrik


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Bug#261745: [hendrik@pooq.com: Re: Did that. Now no net.]

[Hendrik Boom]

Package: installation-reports

Debian-installer-version: Fill in date and from where you got the image
uname -a: The result of running uname -a on a shell prompt
Date: Date and time of the install
Method: How did you install?  What did you boot off?  If network
  install, from where?  Proxied?

Machine: Description of machine (eg, IBM Thinkpad R32)
Processor: Athlon maybe 1600?
Memory: 1 Gigabyte
Root Device: IDE?  SCSI?  Name of device? /dev/hda2, 8.5Gig
Root Size/partition table: Feel free to paste the full partition
  table, with notes on which partitions are mounted where.
Output of lspci:

pcilib: Cannot open /sys/bus/pci/devices
:00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8366/A/7 [Apollo KT266/A/333]
:00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8366/A/7 [Apollo KT266/A/333 AGP]
:00:0d.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller 
(rev 46)
:00:0e.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 
RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
:00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: Promise Technology, Inc. 20265 (rev 02)
:00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6202 [USB 2.0 controller] (rev 
80)
:00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6202 [USB 2.0 controller] (rev 
80)
:00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6202 [USB 2.0 controller] (rev 
80)
:00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 82)
:00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 ISA Bridge
:00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C/VT8235 PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
:00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 
AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc R200 BB [Radeon All in 
Wonder 8500DV]


Base System Installation Checklist:

Initial boot worked:[O]
Configure network HW:   [E]
Config network: [E]
Detect CD:  [O]
Load installer modules: [O]
Detect hard drives: [O]
Partition hard drives:  [O]
Create file systems:[O]
Mount partitions:   [O]
Install base system:[O]
Install boot loader:[O]
Reboot: [O]
[O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it

Comments/Problems:

Description of the install, in prose, and any thoughts, comments
  and ideas you had during the initial install.

I tried to install sarge on /dev/hda3, shile preserving an existing
woody on /dev/hda4, just in case...  /dev/hda1 is a Windows ME system,
ans /dev/hda2 is an extended partition with lots of secondary partitions,
mostly for Windows, but one swap partition.

I downloaded the beta-4 iso and burned a CD from it.  I booted that CD
using the SBM disk that I think I once got from www.bootdisk.com.
This got me into the debian net-installer, and installed onto /dev/hda3.
/dev/hda4 still contains my woody system, which still works
perfectly.  My Windows ME partition still works as imperfectly as ever.

But the new and very minimal sarge can't access the net.  Pings don't seem
to get as far as the ethernet card.

Here's the routing table:

Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
172.25.1.0  0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0
0.0.0.0 172.25.1.1  0.0.0.0 UG0  00 eth0

It's identical to the routing table on the woody system.

Here's the output from ifconfig:

eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:0A:E6:55:93:CD  
  inet addr:172.25.1.4  Bcast:172.25.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
  Interrupt:18 Base address:0xb400 

loLink encap:Local Loopback  
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:6 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:6 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:657 (657.0 b)  TX bytes:657 (657.0 b)


It's the same as the one from woody, except that
woody gives me nonzero packet counts.
etho has interrupt: 18 instead of interrupt:5  Aren't these
dynamically assigned during boot, though?

Pinging to 172.25.1.4 and 127.0.0.1 work fine.  Both of them are,
of course, IP numbers for the machine doing the pinging, so it doesn't
need to get to the ethernet card.

What should I do to diagnose the problem.

Did the installer, which seemed pretty straightforward, miss some
essential component?  I did the default (I presume nonexpert 2.4 kernel)
installation.  Did I do something unobviously wrong?
Needless to say, I can't access any of the Debian archives
to get any further.

I might add that my 

Bug#261745: further info about bug 261745

[Hendrik Boom]

I just realized I left out some of the fields in the installation report
template for bug#261745

Debian-installer-version: Beta 4, downloaded from 
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cd-image-testing/sarge_d-i/i386/beta4/sarge-i386-netinst.iso
uname -a: Linux lovesong 2.4.25-1-386 #2 Wed Apr 14 19:38:08 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
Date: July 26 and 27, 2004.
Method: Booted from the Beta-4 net-install CD using a Smart Boot Manager
   floppy.  Never got around to the network part of the install; that's
   the problem.  Not proxied, but if it had worked, it would have been
   through an IP-masquerading woody installation running on a 100 MHz
   Pentium.



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