Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 01:05:53PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Any updates? The version in lenny should rescan the interfaces every 5 minutes, and it works in my case. But there are cases it doesn't work properly, like when using mdns that returns it can't find the host when the network is not up yet. There are also other open bug reports for which I don't have enough information to know what the problem really is. Upstream is still working on things, and they just added a new async resolver so that it can also update the IPs after it has been running for a while. I don't expect that version to be release soon. I'm planning on uploading a 4.2.6 version soon, we'll first have to see how that behaves. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 11:42:55PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: Kurt Roeckx wrote: It's the client that stops working. And it's probably a regression. So that's no longer an argument to prefer the periodic ntpdate instead of the daemon, assuming it gets fixed? It doesn't work out of the box on either sarge, and I doubt it works on current testing/unstable. I've heard there was rescan code that should rescan all interfaces every hour, but I have no idea in what version and wether it ever worked. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 01:29:10PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: However, I'm not sure that the ntp is a package that should be installed by default, or atleast not run as a daemon by default. Something that runs ntpdate (or ntpd -q -g) regularly, or some sntp client, could make more sense for a default. What are the advantages of ntpd or ntpdate? I'm not sure what you're asking. In the normal case you run ntpd as a daemon, it regularly sends packets out to synchronize the clock. It will adjusts some kernel parameters so that your clock's rate is about correct. It should get your clock accurate to a few ms. If you run ntpdate (or ntpq -q) this is a one time only thing, and just adjusts to clock at that time, it won't do anything else. This is basicly the sntp (simple ntp) behaviour, and you get a clock accurate in the order of a second. If you run ntpd as a daemon, it acts as both client and server, it implements the full ntp protocol including all the algorithmes that go with it. The problem with running ntpd default is that it's designed to act as an ntp server, and not to run on a desktop system or something that doesn't have a static IP address. What you might want as a default installation is an sntp client. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 01:29:10PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: However, I'm not sure that the ntp is a package that should be installed by default, or atleast not run as a daemon by default. Something that runs ntpdate (or ntpd -q -g) regularly, or some sntp client, could make more sense for a default. What are the advantages of ntpd or ntpdate? I'm not sure what you're asking. In the normal case you run ntpd as a daemon, it regularly sends packets out to synchronize the clock. It will adjusts some kernel parameters so that your clock's rate is about correct. It should get your clock accurate to a few ms. If you run ntpdate (or ntpq -q) this is a one time only thing, and just adjusts to clock at that time, it won't do anything else. This is basicly the sntp (simple ntp) behaviour, and you get a clock accurate in the order of a second. If you run ntpd as a daemon, it acts as both client and server, it implements the full ntp protocol including all the algorithmes that go with it. The problem with running ntpd default is that it's designed to act as an ntp server, and not to run on a desktop system or something that doesn't have a static IP address. Why does it require a static IP address? Better accuracy sounds desirable for desktops too. What you might want as a default installation is an sntp client. In that case, shouldn't the Gnome clock panel also enable/disable sntp instead of ntp then? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 09:50:31PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: an ntp server, and not to run on a desktop system or something that doesn't have a static IP address. Why does it require a static IP address? It basicly comes down to ntpd currently not supporting changing IP addresses. This is a very longstanding upstream bug, and I don't think upstream really is looking into fixing this. The NTP protocol uses UDP. If a client sends a packet to a server, it expects to get a response from the same IP address back. This creates problems for systems with multiple IP addresses. Since there is no API to get the IP address a packet was send to, it binds to every IP address it finds when starting (and to the wildcard address). So depending on the socket, it knows which address it was send too. I don't know exactly where the problem is, but after an IP address change, packets start to come in at the wildcard socket, and at that point things probably stop working. See for instance also #399905. What you might want as a default installation is an sntp client. In that case, shouldn't the Gnome clock panel also enable/disable sntp instead of ntp then? I have no idea what the gnome clock panel can or can't do. Taking a quick look at it, it seems it can synchronize the clock using the internet, but I'm guessing it's editing my ntp.conf or something? Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 09:50:31PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: an ntp server, and not to run on a desktop system or something that doesn't have a static IP address. Why does it require a static IP address? It basicly comes down to ntpd currently not supporting changing IP addresses. This is a very longstanding upstream bug, and I don't think upstream really is looking into fixing this. Ah, the need for recvfromto and sendtofrom functions again. :) The NTP protocol uses UDP. If a client sends a packet to a server, it expects to get a response from the same IP address back. This creates problems for systems with multiple IP addresses. Since there is no API to get the IP address a packet was send to, it binds to every IP address it finds when starting (and to the wildcard address). So depending on the socket, it knows which address it was send too. Isn't this only an issue for NTP servers and not for clients? I know the daemon implements both, but when you don't use it as server it shouldn't experience this issue. I don't know exactly where the problem is, but after an IP address change, packets start to come in at the wildcard socket, and at that point things probably stop working. See for instance also #399905. What you might want as a default installation is an sntp client. In that case, shouldn't the Gnome clock panel also enable/disable sntp instead of ntp then? I have no idea what the gnome clock panel can or can't do. Taking a quick look at it, it seems it can synchronize the clock using the internet, but I'm guessing it's editing my ntp.conf or something? Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 11:18:15PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: The NTP protocol uses UDP. If a client sends a packet to a server, it expects to get a response from the same IP address back. This creates problems for systems with multiple IP addresses. Since there is no API to get the IP address a packet was send to, it binds to every IP address it finds when starting (and to the wildcard address). So depending on the socket, it knows which address it was send too. Isn't this only an issue for NTP servers and not for clients? I know the daemon implements both, but when you don't use it as server it shouldn't experience this issue. It's the client that stops working. And it's probably a regression. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 11:18:15PM +0100, Olaf van der Spek wrote: The NTP protocol uses UDP. If a client sends a packet to a server, it expects to get a response from the same IP address back. This creates problems for systems with multiple IP addresses. Since there is no API to get the IP address a packet was send to, it binds to every IP address it finds when starting (and to the wildcard address). So depending on the socket, it knows which address it was send too. Isn't this only an issue for NTP servers and not for clients? I know the daemon implements both, but when you don't use it as server it shouldn't experience this issue. It's the client that stops working. And it's probably a regression. So that's no longer an argument to prefer the periodic ntpdate instead of the daemon, assuming it gets fixed? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could you have ntp installed by default on a Debian install? This is not up to the package maintainers. You need to talk to the Debian installer group. At #debian-devel LIW said the package maintainer had to ask ftp-master to increase the priority to standard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 10:00:30AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could you have ntp installed by default on a Debian install? This is not up to the package maintainers. You need to talk to the Debian installer group. The debian installer group already said that it's not them who decide such things. I think we need to convince ftp-master, or debian-devel. However, I'm not sure that the ntp is a package that should be installed by default, or atleast not run as a daemon by default. Something that runs ntpdate (or ntpd -q -g) regularly, or some sntp client, could make more sense for a default. What are the advantages of ntpd or ntpdate? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could you have ntp installed by default on a Debian install? This is not up to the package maintainers. You need to talk to the Debian installer group. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#400390: [pkg-ntp-maintainers] Bug#400390: Please have ntp installed by default in the standard task
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 10:00:30AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Olaf van der Spek wrote: Could you have ntp installed by default on a Debian install? This is not up to the package maintainers. You need to talk to the Debian installer group. The debian installer group already said that it's not them who decide such things. I think we need to convince ftp-master, or debian-devel. However, I'm not sure that the ntp is a package that should be installed by default, or atleast not run as a daemon by default. Something that runs ntpdate (or ntpd -q -g) regularly, or some sntp client, could make more sense for a default. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
