Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Unfortunatly, popcon data can't be used to help with these kinds of decisions. It produces graphs like these, which probably only show that abiword and OOo have desktop file and icons that are read when gnome is used. http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=abiword+abiword-common+openoffice.org+epiphany-browser++openoffice.org-writer&show_vote=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 However: http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/readers-choice-awards-2009?page=0,1 85% of users surveyed preferred OOs; 3% preferred Abiword. Joss: Doesn't openoffice.org-gnome provide gnome VFS integration? Nautilus seems to use OOo by default to open .doc files, with Abiword offered as an option in the context menu. It's not clear to me how that level of integration is "a joke". The single bug open on oo.o-gnome is #341965, "Fonts not perfectly aligned with gnome". -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Am 27.09.2010 12:29, schrieb Julien Cristau: As far as I'm concerned, the former (for what that's worth, which is probably not much). Should this discussion be escalated to -devel? I mean, it affects every single Debian desktop install. - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:19:58 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > As I already explained a the beginning of the bug report, OOo > integration with GNOME is a bad joke. The question is more: do we want > an office suite that can open this or that document, or an office suite > that is consistent and integrated correctly with the desktop? > As far as I'm concerned, the former (for what that's worth, which is probably not much). Cheers, Julien signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Am 27.09.2010 12:19, schrieb Josselin Mouette: As I already explained a the beginning of the bug report, OOo integration with GNOME is a bad joke. The question is more: do we want Yes, sorry, I forgot this part of the issue. an office suite that can open this or that document, or an office suite that is consistent and integrated correctly with the desktop? All I want to achive with this bug report is a reasonable package list for the default Debian installation. I don't know what is "wring" or "right", either. - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Le lundi 27 septembre 2010 à 11:25 +0200, Fabian Greffrath a écrit : > Am 27.09.2010 09:04, schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > I’ve seen that (with both abiword and gnumeric), and I’ve seen the > > opposite too: documents that display fine in OOo but have everything > > messed up in abiword. > > Right, but is this really a good reason to keep both of them (i.e. > that they fail *differently* when attempting to open documents saved > in proprietary file formats)? > > I'd say, OOo is generally more "complete" than Abiword+Gnumeric. > People who know they want Abiword (e.g. because they want to use one > of its more advanced features that has no equivalent in OOo) also know > how to install it via apt. As I already explained a the beginning of the bug report, OOo integration with GNOME is a bad joke. The question is more: do we want an office suite that can open this or that document, or an office suite that is consistent and integrated correctly with the desktop? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Am 27.09.2010 09:04, schrieb Josselin Mouette: I’ve seen that (with both abiword and gnumeric), and I’ve seen the opposite too: documents that display fine in OOo but have everything messed up in abiword. Right, but is this really a good reason to keep both of them (i.e. that they fail *differently* when attempting to open documents saved in proprietary file formats)? I'd say, OOo is generally more "complete" than Abiword+Gnumeric. People who know they want Abiword (e.g. because they want to use one of its more advanced features that has no equivalent in OOo) also know how to install it via apt. - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Le samedi 25 septembre 2010 à 10:25 -0400, Lennart Sorensen a écrit : > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 09:57:30AM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote: > > No joke, it has been yesterday that somebody told me "Debian is weird, > > because it installs two word processors by default." > > > > Am Montag, den 26.04.2010, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > > That’s not a good solution either, since there are lots of features OOo > > > has that abiword/gnumeric don’t. > > > > I'd say that people who know they will use the advanced features of > > Abiword (e.g. collaborative writing) will also know how to install it. > > And, installing Abiword is less a burden than installing OOo-writer > > because of the smaller package size. > > Isn't abiword part of the gnome desktop task? > > I have also encountered many word documents that opened correctly > in abiword but were a mess in openoffice, so I sure don't bother with > openoffice for word documents anymore. Openoffice is handy for powerpoint > files though to view them. I’ve seen that (with both abiword and gnumeric), and I’ve seen the opposite too: documents that display fine in OOo but have everything messed up in abiword. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 09:57:30AM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote: > No joke, it has been yesterday that somebody told me "Debian is weird, > because it installs two word processors by default." > > Am Montag, den 26.04.2010, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > That’s not a good solution either, since there are lots of features OOo > > has that abiword/gnumeric don’t. > > I'd say that people who know they will use the advanced features of > Abiword (e.g. collaborative writing) will also know how to install it. > And, installing Abiword is less a burden than installing OOo-writer > because of the smaller package size. Isn't abiword part of the gnome desktop task? I have also encountered many word documents that opened correctly in abiword but were a mess in openoffice, so I sure don't bother with openoffice for word documents anymore. Openoffice is handy for powerpoint files though to view them. -- Len Sorensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
No joke, it has been yesterday that somebody told me "Debian is weird, because it installs two word processors by default." Am Montag, den 26.04.2010, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Josselin Mouette: > That’s not a good solution either, since there are lots of features OOo > has that abiword/gnumeric don’t. I'd say that people who know they will use the advanced features of Abiword (e.g. collaborative writing) will also know how to install it. And, installing Abiword is less a burden than installing OOo-writer because of the smaller package size. - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Am 26.04.2010 11:02, schrieb Josselin Mouette: This is how we end up with two office suites and two navigators. By navigators you mean web browsers? Yeah, you’re probably right. Let’s demote it to suggests. xsane does not integrate well with GNOME either. How about simple-scan or gnome-scan/flegita? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Le lundi 26 avril 2010 à 10:50 +0200, Fabian Greffrath a écrit : > Am 26.04.2010 09:33, schrieb Josselin Mouette: > > I agree it is a problem, but there is no perfect solution. > >* The OOo integration with GNOME is a joke. > >* Gnumeric and Abiword both have features that OOo has not. > > So you suggest to drop OOo altogether? Well, that would be rigorous > but consistent. However, I fear that we'll see some rather long faces > from user complaining about their pet package missing... That’s not a good solution either, since there are lots of features OOo has that abiword/gnumeric don’t. This is how we end up with two office suites and two navigators. > > As for planner, I’m not sure either. Maybe it’s not suitable for the > > default installation. > > I really don't consider it usefull enough to justify it getting > installed on each and every Debian desktop system out there. Yeah, you’re probably right. Let’s demote it to suggests. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “A handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Am 26.04.2010 09:33, schrieb Josselin Mouette: I agree it is a problem, but there is no perfect solution. * The OOo integration with GNOME is a joke. * Gnumeric and Abiword both have features that OOo has not. So you suggest to drop OOo altogether? Well, that would be rigorous but consistent. However, I fear that we'll see some rather long faces from user complaining about their pet package missing... As for planner, I’m not sure either. Maybe it’s not suitable for the default installation. I really don't consider it usefull enough to justify it getting installed on each and every Debian desktop system out there. In all cases, dropping gnome-office altogether is not the way to go, since currently it’s the dependency that brings inkscape (which beats OOo draw by knock-out), gimp and xsane. You are definitely right that the latter three packages should get installed by default. And indeed, in tasksel, gimp is in the desktop task and both inkscape and xsane are in the gnome-desktop task, so there is no need to pull them in via gnome-office. - Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Le dimanche 25 avril 2010 à 21:58 +0200, Fabian Greffrath a écrit : > Package: tasksel > Version: 2.81 > Severity: minor > Tags: squeeze > > Hi, tasksel installs two entire office suites on a freshly installed Debian > desktop system, namely openoffice.org and gnome-office. So there are two word > processing and two spreadsheet applications (plus the IMHO rather useless > planner application) installed, which all require hard disk space and > installation time. I'd suggest to drop one of both office suites either > directly in tasksel or by e.g. making the gnome meta-package depend on > something like "gnome-office | openoffice.org-gnome". Cheers, Fabian I agree it is a problem, but there is no perfect solution. * The OOo integration with GNOME is a joke. * Gnumeric and Abiword both have features that OOo has not. As for planner, I’m not sure either. Maybe it’s not suitable for the default installation. In all cases, dropping gnome-office altogether is not the way to go, since currently it’s the dependency that brings inkscape (which beats OOo draw by knock-out), gimp and xsane. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “A handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#579155: tasksel: installs *two* entire office suites
Package: tasksel Version: 2.81 Severity: minor Tags: squeeze Hi, tasksel installs two entire office suites on a freshly installed Debian desktop system, namely openoffice.org and gnome-office. So there are two word processing and two spreadsheet applications (plus the IMHO rather useless planner application) installed, which all require hard disk space and installation time. I'd suggest to drop one of both office suites either directly in tasksel or by e.g. making the gnome meta-package depend on something like "gnome-office | openoffice.org-gnome". Cheers, Fabian -- System Information: Debian Release: squeeze/sid APT prefers testing APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (550, 'unstable'), (400, 'experimental') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-4-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core) Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages tasksel depends on: ii aptitude 0.6.1.5-3 terminal-based package manager (te ii debconf [debconf-2.0] 1.5.30 Debian configuration management sy ii liblocale-gettext-perl1.05-6 Using libc functions for internati ii tasksel-data 2.81 Official tasks used for installati tasksel recommends no packages. tasksel suggests no packages. -- debconf information: tasksel/title: tasksel/desktop: gnome tasksel/first: tasksel/tasks: -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
