Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
On Mon, 02 Jun 2014, Javier Bezos wrote: Indeed, it is, but you should contact the maintainer of russian. Javier, please take care ... this is the case for *not*onlY*russian*, but also latin, and probably others, too. Are you *really*really* sure that this is not bug in babel core itself? If not, then at least the documentation how to write the attribute code needs to be fixed/updated/changed/whatever. All the best Norbert PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info JAIST, Japan TeX Live Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
Norbert,
Javier, please take care ... this is the case for *not*onlY*russian*,
but also latin, and probably others, too.
Are you *really*really* sure that this is not bug in babel core itself?
If not, then at least the documentation how to write the attribute
code needs to be fixed/updated/changed/whatever.
Latin and russian behave exactly as coded, and the issues are not
directly related with how attributes are defined in the babel core
and how they are used -- just slips. And a coincidence you have
found two bugs.
Attributes are executed only once, in the preamble. So in the case
of latin, \languageattribute{latin}{medieval} just defines \november
to be Nouembris. However, when latin is selected, \datelatin is
executed:
\def\datelatin{%
\def\november{Novembris}%
\def\today{%
{\check@mathfonts\fontsize\sf@size\z@\math@fontsfalse\selectfont
\uppercase\expandafter{\romannumeral\day}}~\ifcase\month\or
Ianuarii\or Februarii\or Martii\or Aprilis\or Maii\or Iunii\or
Iulii\or Augusti\or Septembris\or Octobris\or \november\or
Decembris\fi
\space{\uppercase\expandafter{\romannumeral\year
Note it restores the non-medieval value. I presume this line should
be placed outside \datelatin. And Ulrike also showed string are
reversed in russian.
Oddly enough, I tested the medieval attribute with \prefacename, which
as noted by Ulrike (iirc) works as expected.
Javier
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Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
I got a bug report here at Debian, but it is the same in the
current TL2014 status. It seems that something with the
language attributes is up-side-down:
The report states that
\today
prints the wrong month for June in Russian. It should be
июнь (cyrillic i at the first position)
but comes out as
iюнь (latin i followed by cyrillic юнь)
The input file is trivial:
\documentclass[12pt,russian]{article}
\usepackage[T2A]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\today
\end{document}
(with or without the inputenc, I tried both!)
Reading a bit through russian.ldf I see that the printed version
is related to the ancient variant of Russian.
So I tried
...
\usepackage{babel}
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
...
and voila, the June comes out as expected in all cyrillic.
So it seems to me that there is something - a test - turned
around.
I am not sure whether Karl considers this a show-stopper, but
considering how core babel is that would be a good reason for me.
the package has a modern/ancient switch; there was a language reform
after the revolution (iirc).
if the switch is set to ancient, it sets june and july with an old
cyrillic i, but if the switch is set to modern, it uses the soft i
(transcribed, iirc, as yi). the document that's had trouble
presumably has the command
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
in it.
robin
Please try to keep the Debian bug report in Cc, if possible.
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Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
Hi Robin,
if the switch is set to ancient, it sets june and july with an old
cyrillic i, but if the switch is set to modern, it uses the soft i
Yes, and my *whole* email was about that the test for this switch
seems to be up-side-down.
(transcribed, iirc, as yi). the document that's had trouble
presumably has the command
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
No, you missed the point!!! The minimal document is fully included here,
and does *NOT* include the languageattribute call:
\documentclass[12pt,russian]{article}
\usepackage[T2A]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\today
\end{document}
In contrast, *ADDING*
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
switches to *modern* way of writing.
Norbert
PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info
JAIST, Japan TeX Live Debian Developer
GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
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Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 10:28:34 +0100
Robin Fairbairns robin.fairbai...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote:
Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
I got a bug report here at Debian, but it is the same in the
current TL2014 status. It seems that something with the
language attributes is up-side-down:
The report states that
\today
prints the wrong month for June in Russian. It should be
июнь (cyrillic i at the first position)
but comes out as
iюнь (latin i followed by cyrillic юнь)
The input file is trivial:
\documentclass[12pt,russian]{article}
\usepackage[T2A]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\today
\end{document}
(with or without the inputenc, I tried both!)
Reading a bit through russian.ldf I see that the printed version
is related to the ancient variant of Russian.
So I tried
...
\usepackage{babel}
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
...
and voila, the June comes out as expected in all cyrillic.
So it seems to me that there is something - a test - turned
around.
I am not sure whether Karl considers this a show-stopper, but
considering how core babel is that would be a good reason for me.
the package has a modern/ancient switch; there was a language
reform after the revolution (iirc).
if the switch is set to ancient, it sets june and july with an old
cyrillic i, but if the switch is set to modern, it uses the soft i
(transcribed, iirc, as yi). the document that's had trouble
presumably has the command
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
in it.
If set to ancient then it is іюня, otherwise (the modern variation) it
is июня. As Zdeněk pointed out rightly, the я indicates genitive.
Interesting question is why Norbert got the nominative form июнь.
According to russianb.pdf the default should be modern cyrillic which
is actually not true.
As texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-russian/russianb.ldf is the same in
both texlive 2013 and 2014 the error doesn't seem to be texlive 2014
specific.
--
Manfred
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Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
Manfred Lotz manf...@dante.de wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 10:28:34 +0100
Robin Fairbairns robin.fairbai...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote:
Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
I got a bug report here at Debian, but it is the same in the
current TL2014 status. It seems that something with the
language attributes is up-side-down:
The report states that
\today
prints the wrong month for June in Russian. It should be
июнь (cyrillic i at the first position)
but comes out as
iюнь (latin i followed by cyrillic юнь)
actually, it's a cyrillic i-dot
The input file is trivial:
\documentclass[12pt,russian]{article}
\usepackage[T2A]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\today
\end{document}
(with or without the inputenc, I tried both!)
Reading a bit through russian.ldf I see that the printed version
is related to the ancient variant of Russian.
So I tried
...
\usepackage{babel}
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
...
and voila, the June comes out as expected in all cyrillic.
So it seems to me that there is something - a test - turned
around.
I am not sure whether Karl considers this a show-stopper, but
considering how core babel is that would be a good reason for me.
the package has a modern/ancient switch; there was a language
reform after the revolution (iirc).
if the switch is set to ancient, it sets june and july with an old
cyrillic i, but if the switch is set to modern, it uses the soft i
(transcribed, iirc, as yi). the document that's had trouble
presumably has the command
\languageattribute{russian}{ancient}
in it.
If set to ancient then it is іюня, otherwise (the modern variation) it
is июня. As Zdeněk pointed out rightly, the я indicates genitive.
Interesting question is why Norbert got the nominative form июнь.
indeed -- it doesn't appear in the russian ldf/
According to russianb.pdf the default should be modern cyrillic which
is actually not true.
As texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-russian/russianb.ldf is the same in
both texlive 2013 and 2014 the error doesn't seem to be texlive 2014
specific.
presumably tl2014 is being delivered with this wrong version, but the
version on the archive (dated may 20) doesn't have the genitive.
(i can't guarantee this: my backup links aren't working, so it could be
that the pre-20 may version is also right, and the correction came even
earlier.)
robin
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Bug#750057: [tex-live] Serious (?) problem with Babel and language attributes
On 01.06.14 Manfred Lotz (manf...@dante.de) wrote: Hi, If set to ancient then it is іюня, otherwise (the modern variation) it is июня. As Zdeněk pointed out rightly, the я indicates genitive. Interesting question is why Norbert got the nominative form июнь. I guess he simply neglected the difference between nominative and genitive in russian, b/c this was not the real issue. According to russianb.pdf the default should be modern cyrillic which is actually not true. As texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-russian/russianb.ldf is the same in both texlive 2013 and 2014 the error doesn't seem to be texlive 2014 specific. Is still run TL 2013 and in fact I see the same issue running the minimal example. 1 іюня 2014. Hilmar -- sigmentation fault signature.asc Description: Digital signature
