Re: Debian 10th birthday gear
On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 09:44:06PM -0400, James Michael Greenhalgh wrote: 100 million users 1000 installations I would recommend to exchange these last two lines. More installations than users? actually they are million users :) Is it me or has the debate over whether there are more installations or users resulted in your post/point being lost. 100 million users = 1 users - it should just be 100 users? Since there are roughly 30 people on the planet, 1 users must mean debian is the first interplanetary operating system. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] prepBut nI vrbLike adjHungarian! qWhat's artThe adjBig nProblem? -- alec flett @netscape
Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?
On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 08:10:18AM -0500, Sean Proctor wrote: [ snip ] ... Anyway, Gentoo has a much different niche than Debian, so I don't understand why people are arguing about changing Debian because of it. If Gentoo serves their needs better, good. Perhaps Debian can then focus less on those people and more on others? Why duplicate work, right? (BTW, sorry for the anecdote, I know how much they're hated here. ;-) mode=rant No way! Debian has to be all things to all people Specifically, it has to be what I[1] want it to be!! If you don't agree, you must be defective or something!! /mode [1] You know who you are. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You can have Peace, or you can have Freedom. Don't ever count on having both at the same time. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?
On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 04:21:32PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 06:56:57PM +0100, Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo wrote: Could you run X 4.2 in, say, s390 that date? Never ask a Gentoo user that question. The answer is always one of the following: 1) I don't care 2) What's S/390? 3) DO3Z 1T CUM W1TH 3L337 GAM3Z, D00D?? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte pgp4kd2yPXUjY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?
On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 02:19:14PM -0800, Jon Kent wrote: Never ask a Gentoo user that question. The answer is always one of the following: 1) I don't care 2) What's S/390? I really don't care ;-), when I am or 99.999% of Debian users ever gonna get near a S/390, high end Sun kit sure, but S/390 pls. Ok, answer that question then. Does gentoo support optimisations for Sun hardware (say, oh, I dunno ... a Sun Ultra 30? ;) Does gentoo even run on Sun? I posted last week on why it's cool[1] that debian runs on multiple arches; I'm sure it's in the archive. [1] useful, even -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.
Re: Technical Committee: decision on #119517?
On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 12:59:22PM +0200, Jochen Voss wrote: Hallo? On Fri, Apr 19, 2002 at 01:20:32AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: Over six months ago, on 2001-11-14, [...] ^^ ^ || | Year -+| | Month -+ | Day -+ Huh? At what time do you live? -- Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gil-galad was an Elven-king.| The Fellowship Of him the harpers sadly sing: |of the last whose realm was fair and free | the Ring between the Mountains and the Sea. | J.R.R. Tolkien pgpR3Gpp8q1pY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Faster Release Cycle = More Up to date Packages...
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 11:13:49PM +0200, Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote: Thank you Joey for being so obliging to a constructive proposal, and thank you for your polite way of replying to my proposal. Do you think you could put your 6 year old attitude aside for a few moments and take this as a contructive proposal as other normal grownups would do? [ bla bla bla ] Johnny Ernst Nielsen wrote: Debian's current problem with old packages can be seen by the fact that a number of vendors have reportedly dumped the current Stable release in favor of the Testing distribution some time ago. That can only mean that currentness of content has become more important than bugs, security and stability. It means that Debian is not in balance with currentness of contents. Debian can not continue down that path without compromising Debians own policy of supporting its users. So someone was more interesed in currency than in stability, and they swiched from the debian tree that emphases the later to the tree that emphasises the former. And what was the problem again? ^^^ Who wrote this part? You've stripped the proper attributions. I have no idea who Joey is (there are at least 2 DDs who it could be). It's impossible to carry on a discussion if you can't follow basic email etiquette. [ hint: if you are complaining about a flame, using a flame to do it is probably not the best solution ] Finally, please do go read the archives. The we need to fix the release mechanism and here's my s00per-d00per method to do it thread arrives here every few weeks. It';s hard to believe anyone has anything new to say at this point. [ snip ] Regards, -- Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gil-galad was an Elven-king.| The Fellowship Of him the harpers sadly sing: |of the last whose realm was fair and free | the Ring between the Mountains and the Sea. | J.R.R. Tolkien pgp1BiP2Jj5zI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Rsyncable GZIP (was Re: Package metadata server)
On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 09:11:27PM -0500, Jeff Licquia wrote: On Sun, 2002-04-07 at 13:16, Otto Wyss wrote: A large mirror in Australia does provide an rsync server to access debian packages. When redhat 7.0 came out so many people tried to rsync it at the same time, the machine promptly fell over. What amazes me is that nobody is able or willing to provide any figures. So I guess no provider of an rsync server is interested in this subject and therefore it can't be a big problem. ...or, more likely, they are too busy maintaining their rsync servers to respond (or even follow the traffic on a list like this one). The rest of us are trying to impress upon you the possibility that it might be a big problem, as we've heard that it is in the past. As flimsy as anecdotal evidence is, it certainly beats proof by assertion. Agreed. I used to run debian.midco.net (which sadly no longer exists now that I no longer work at midco.net). That machine was a dual processor PII with 70 GB of RAID disk; it was a news server for a while before it was pressed into service as a mirror. IOW, it was a decent machine in its day. d.m.n was a primary push mirror and provided anon rsync access to the world, but with a 15 connection limit. Any more than that and apache became resource starved, and when you're trying to act as a primary HTTP mirror for apt, that's not good. I don't have stats as d.m.n has been dead for almost two years now, but I can assure you that rsync, while quite cool, can be dangerous in large doses. Regards, -- Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gil-galad was an Elven-king.| The Fellowship Of him the harpers sadly sing: |of the last whose realm was fair and free | the Ring between the Mountains and the Sea. | J.R.R. Tolkien pgpfIRoHg9Q1J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration
On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 02:51:23AM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2002 at 07:30:21PM -0500, Joe Drew wrote: On Sat, 2002-04-06 at 18:59, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: The keyword here is prominent. Yes, it is. The Debian servers don't run non-free software provided by HP and/OR Sun. The debconf2 registration page is hosted on a server with non-free software and has a link to a website with a non-free product, that's something different then donating hardware. You are not quite understanding the level of Lindows.com's involvement. This is not DebConf 2, sponsored by Lindows.com. This is, pure and simple, DebConf 2. The fact that Lindows.com happens to be helping out with it is incidental. They were quite adamant that Lindows.com *not* be given any special treatment or placement - they are helping out with DebConf 2 because it's the right thing to do, because their distribution is based on Debian. We are not prominently featuring Lindows.com - they just happened to be the hosts for our registration page. That's it, end of story. Of course it's nice of them that they help, but I still think it's wrong that the registration page is hosted on a server with non-free software and with a link to a site trying to sell non-free products. Certainly because we can make the registration form with free software without any links to non-free stuff. Please end this thread and go back to telling us all how much the linux kernel sucks. -- Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gil-galad was an Elven-king.| The Fellowship Of him the harpers sadly sing: |of the last whose realm was fair and free | the Ring between the Mountains and the Sea. | J.R.R. Tolkien pgp4M0QD40PjY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: on potato's proftpd
On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:22:39AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: dear list, look, i am really not here to start a flame war and heck no, i don't want one. please excuse if my behaviour has been leading you onto this belief (or maybe not). i am simply failing to grasp the arguments laid out by wichert. that is, i don't disagree with him per se, but i have the feeling that i am also not being understood. so, please read this last attempt to clarify and then either respond, or give me a straight shut up and i will. and i apologize up front to sven for posting parts of his personal reply to the list. also sprach Sven Hoexter [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002.04.02.2240 +0200]: Calm down :) It's just a DoS attack and if you use a Software you as the admin should look at the normal flood of information and pick out what you need. If you do so you know the problem and you can work around it in different ways. One way is the Deny directiv or some of the Ulimit options introduced into proftpd after the problem occured the first time. In the Debian way the deny directiv is the working one. well, i am calm, but i disagree. sure, it boils down to the question who debian's audience are, but for all i am concerned, debian's reputation _used_ to include security, and the reason why i'd (as in would and had) install(ed) debian was because i didn't need to be worrying about the obvious and hence i could spend my resources on other things. had i wanted to patch one-year-old bugs in software that installs from the security archives, then i might have just chosen to fly redhat. i don't understand why you aren't understanding this. i am not at all against finding the real bug as well as investigating why: See, paragraphs like this directly contradict you statement above that you don't want a flame war. Debian used to include security? Apparently you no longer run Debian? Does this mean you've wiothdrawn your name for the NM queue? Are you willing to abandon the hyperbole and put forward rational arguments as to why your solution is best? their is a patch that doesn't work and it seems like nobody proved the patch after it was applied for the first time. but give me at least one argument why these acts cannot combine with a *temporary* fix uploaded to the so-called security archives. The temporary patch is, well, temporary. It only works on a new install; otherwise the admin has to examine their config file by hand to make the change. Worst of all, since the bug was thought to be fixed but isn't, the temporary fix may not in fact prevent the exploit. If the exploit is part of libc globbing code, it may be exploitable in other code, not just proftpd. With this I'm falling back to another topic: Is the way of keeping exploit code behind bars realy good for the admin without the special coding skills or just new stones in the proccess of running a secure server? exactly my point. debian's the hacker OS, but it's also damn good. so why not take little steps such as this and keep it that way even for the ones that don't spend 20 hours a day in front of a computer and know assembler backwards... Just my personal thoughts about your flames with Wichert. they really weren't intended to be flames. i am sorry if they felt that way. i am really just trying to be concise since i don't have much more to say than i did. I have to wonder. -- Nathan Norman - Micromuse Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gil-galad was an Elven-king.| The Fellowship Of him the harpers sadly sing: |of the last whose realm was fair and free | the Ring between the Mountains and the Sea. | J.R.R. Tolkien pgpJpxr4WCD9P.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: An alarming trend (no it's not flaimbait.) (fwd)
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:49:11PM -0600, Brian Wolfe wrote: Instead of many new packages, why not make people pick up the orphaned stuff, and find replacements or adopt packages that have been DOA upstream? In a volunteer organization, you can't _make_ people do anything. You can encourage them to do things, or forbid them from doing things, but you can't say Hey Hans, you need to do this project, and Bill needs to do that project. Corporations work that way, Debian does not. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpAcJqKV5Yhf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: An alarming trend (no it's not flaimbait.) (fwd)
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 04:52:39PM -0600, Brian Wolfe wrote: [ a bunch of stuff I didn't read, because ... ] If you're going to participate on the debian mailing lists, consider doing so with a mailer that understands and honors the Mail-Followup-To: header (yes, I know it's not an official standard, but it's considered a standard on debian lists). I don't need copies of list mail unless I ask for them. I read the lists. Please don't Cc: me on list mail. Etc. [ rest of rant deleted ] -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpqwCUcCF1xZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: A language by any other name
On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 02:12:46PM +1000, Sam Couter wrote: Therefore, without emotion and with a pragmatic hand to guide me, I feel that English should be an alias for en_US. s/without emotion/with typical American patriotism/ s/pragmatic/dogmatic/ Patriotism != jingoism. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpcuOY1qNysE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: sysctl should disable ECN by default
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 12:47:05PM +0200, T.Pospisek's MailLists wrote: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Alex Pennace wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 02:37:06PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: Russell Coker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why should the default configuration be changed to account for the diminishing number of broken routers on the net? From a technical behavior, throwing away packets with unknown protocol flags is perfectly acceptable in any case and even reasonable in some environments. No, such bastardization of TCP/IP, while already rampant, has no place on the Internet. While at the same time not properly functioning IMAP clients, browsers that are unable to correctly interpret HTML, SMB Machines that spew broadcasts, RIP being propagated who knows where, routes flapping etc. etc. has a place? No - you are right we have to sweep the place with a steel broom. And whoever behaves not in exact accordance with an RFC will immediately be exterminated by the Debian Intifada. Nazis. Hitler. Microsoft rules! (Die thread die!) -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpJ4ApmRjdrr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Student Looking for A Final Year Project
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 02:56:23PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: Glenn McGrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hate CVS, i thought everyone else did as well and people only used it because of a lack of alternatives. http://subversion.tigris.org OT: galeon does not like this website much. (Looks like a cool project though) -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp6hdjznRIlK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how can Euro symbol be displayed under X [4.0.3]?
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 02:34:44PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: Gordon Sadler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not everyone. It's a square here, on the console. Just like good ol' pong. Right, because you're using a limited mailer which can't show different charsets. 8^) (A rather decent reason for preferring a graphical mailer over mutt, though I don't know whether most of them can display different charsets correctly, or if they're limited to the one in the font you specified.) If you are suggesting that mutt cannot display the ยค caharacter correctly, you are wrong! I'm using mutt and it works fine. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpaynBbHxXMN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: cvs not updating correctly
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 05:29:30PM -0400, Jon Eisenstein wrote: I use cvs in Debian for lots of things but I'm still a newcomer in this field, I think I am not being able to get new created directories and files from the cvs repository with an cvs update, are there arguments or options to do this? Try using 'cvs update -d'. That should update newly created directories and files. ... and cvs update -dP will pull in new dirs but prune empty dirs (new or not). -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpZdrIggLzGd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: rfc1149
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 09:40:23PM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 11 years ago IETF described a IP protocol to transport IP datagrams using pigeons. See http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt Sadly enough, noone has still implemented this protocol. It's just been done; see the latest issue of the Jargon file, Appendix A. (http://www.tuxedo.org/jargon/) Also see http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/writeup.html -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp3vMydzYb27.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 05:13:08PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: from the secret journal of John H. Robinson, IV ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): it says ``that a user would obtain by installing''SO this means: on (say) a Debian 2.1 system, if a user were to get the tarbal, and compile it against the default libs, as per the instructions, and install as per the instructions, the binary installation should match. this means the same locations, against the same libraries. this also means (to my reading) no after-market patches, for the binary package. I'm not sure if this has come up before, but since DJB likes to install in /var, wouldn't any Debian package fail the policy check? You sir, have obviously never installed djbdns if you think djb wants it installed in /var. It's easy to argue from ignorance, though. *geesh* [echoed by the crowed] Oh, bravo. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpWf8lIDdYBW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: (OT) Storage (8*IDE HDs) any experiences?
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 11:21:49PM +0200, PiotR wrote: On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 08:30:10AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 08:42:04PM +0200, PiotR wrote: If you short circuit both PS's outputs then the voltage is the same and there won't be any reverse current, neither in the data cables. So te load will be distributed between both PS. In power combining applications like these, balancing diodes or resistors are usually used. It's not good just to connect the outputs together. What's the difference between those and a standard diode? I think if you use a diode to connect the outputs you are limiting the current flow in one way only. And why would you want to do this? Could this topic die or go somewhere else? Please? Thanks :) -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpd21AW5aYcF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: kernel-{image,headers} package bloat
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 09:59:42PM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote: On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 12:09:12AM -0500, David Starner wrote: On Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 09:28:02PM -0500, Rahul Jain wrote: Unless you care about performace. Which is the main reason to use different packages for each CPU type. I compile my own kernels, and have for a long time. But it's a pain to go through all the poorly-documented options and takes quite a while to select those options and actually build a kernel. And then there's the times I have to go back and recompile because I left out my mouse drivers, or ide-scsi, or vfat. It's entirely rational to want to pick up the 10% improvement from hitting the right button in dselect and not worry about the 20% from recompiling the kernel. in that case, a far better solution is a package containing a bunch of pre-generated kernel .config files, plus a menu script to copy your choice to the right subdirectory (e.g. /usr/local/src/linux or wherever)...then run make menuconfig or make xconfig to let you tweak the .config before compiling. that would be one package, taking maybe a few hundred kilobytes total. call it kernel-helper and make it depend on kernel-package. problem solved. This is an excellent idea. Herbert, please consider it. I really don't think that we need several hunder megabytes worth of kernels in the distribution ... -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpbcCH4XZ4IM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: kernel-{image,headers} package bloat
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 10:23:04PM +1000, Herbert Xu wrote: Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in that case, a far better solution is a package containing a bunch of pre-generated kernel .config files, plus a menu script to copy your choice to the right subdirectory (e.g. /usr/local/src/linux or wherever)...then run make menuconfig or make xconfig to let you tweak the .config before compiling. that would be one package, taking maybe a few hundred kilobytes total. call it kernel-helper and make it depend on kernel-package. problem solved. But why not take this one step further, let's just distribute what's in build-essential and let the users compile the rest. Let's rewind the clock back to times when men were men, and they compiled everything on their own box :) Well, this is foolish. Craig is arguing for one (or a few) kernel packages rather than a multitude of them. It's difficult to install debian if there's not at least one kernel-image package, eh? Your hypthetical is calling for distributing zero packages, in which case we no longer have a distribution. Some people prefer that approach, but they probably aren't using debian at all. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpx8rHF5wqod.pgp Description: PGP signature
can the bug reporter close a bug? [was:Re: Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody]
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:29:03AM +0200, Eray Ozkural wrote: On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:55:32PM -0700, Adam Conrad wrote: Hate to state the obvious, but on a DEFAULT Debian install, if nothing is changed, root's default path with be dictated by /root/.profile ... Maybe the machine behaving fine still has this file, and the other has had it deleted, and then (and only then) is login/whatever providing you with a default user env... Thanks for the suggestion. That's it. Please close the bug. That file has somehow gone and replacing it will solve the problem. I apologize for prolonging this thread - it's quite annoying. However, after reading this enlightened response I wonder if it's possible for a user to close the (silly) bug he or she reported after he or she solves the problem. bugs.debian.org doesn't seem to indicate a way for a bug to be closed other than action by the maintainer. Thanks, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgprvAzkUGnZ9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:38:10AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: Hi Matt!! I don't report a bug due to misconfiguration. Let's see if what you see applies, though. [ snip rude and silly reply ] [ time passes ] On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:29:03AM +0200, Eray Ozkural wrote: Hi Adam, On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:55:32PM -0700, Adam Conrad wrote: Hate to state the obvious, but on a DEFAULT Debian install, if nothing is changed, root's default path with be dictated by /root/.profile ... Maybe the machine behaving fine still has this file, and the other has had it deleted, and then (and only then) is login/whatever providing you with a default user env... Thanks for the suggestion. That's it. Please close the bug. That file has somehow gone and replacing it will solve the problem. Golly, there _was_ a misconfiguration. Now that you've made your disdain for Branden's sharp tongue well known, I hope you plan to apologize to Matt Zimmerman for your rudeness. Have a super-nice day, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpEyeKHQZVuo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: can the bug reporter close a bug? [was:Re: Bug#81396: root shell fscked after upgrade to woody]
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:42:57PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:57:11AM -0600, Gordon Sadler wrote: On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:14:40AM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: I apologize for prolonging this thread - it's quite annoying. However, after reading this enlightened response I wonder if it's possible for a user to close the (silly) bug he or she reported after he or she solves the problem. bugs.debian.org doesn't seem to indicate a way for a bug to be closed other than action by the maintainer. Actually under /usr/doc/debian the doc-debian package provides a number of files, including bug-main-mailcontrol.txt. Yes, but also anyone, including the submitter, spammers, joe public etc can email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to close a bug as well. The BTS doesn't care. So does this mean the submitter can close their own bug or not? I'm not sure what you mean by the BTS doesn't care -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp62E0fSYvxi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:11:21PM -0800, Philip Brown wrote: [ Miles Bader writes ] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown) writes: As opposed to the current scheme, which also requires annoying manual editing of addresses to reply to the list, if your mailreader does the reasonable thing and assumes you want to reply to the original sender of the message, in liu of a reply-to header. Only if you're using a MUA too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing. All reasonable mail readers support at least `reply to sender' and `followup'/`wide-reply' commands, and the latter should do what you want. I guess YOUR mailreader is too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing I did not request you to Cc me. But you replied to the list AND me. Some headers from your mail: : To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org : Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:11:21 -0800 (PST) : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown) : Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since you've set the Reply-To: header, wouldn't the reasonable person expect that you'd like a reply as well as the list? If that's not what you want, then set headers like Mail-Copies-To: never or Mail-Followup-To: with the appropriate address(es). Since this doesn't seem to be what you want I've omitted the Cc: in this case. The issue is how to simplify a default action of reply to the list, and ONLY the list We've already got that, thanks. Presumably your own mailreader does not have a single key for reply to debian-devel, not to original sender function, which is why you chose the alternative of reply to all. Which is NOT desirable. By making Reply-To: point to the list, you make these two different commands do the same thing, thus depriving the user of the choice. There is NO depriving of choice. Phil, you miss the point. Please note that you set your Reply-To: header. Now please imagine a scenario where you can't control your From: address (you're at work possibly?): it's set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you definitely DO NOT want replies to come to your work address (perhaps there's a fascist regime or something). So, you set your Reply-To: header to your favorite account: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Cool - now when people reply they'll be sending to the right address! Oh, but wait, that damn list you're subscribed to rewrites the Reply-To: header for its own purposes! Now you're going to get a bunch of email going exactly where you don't want it: you've been deprived of your right to set an email header. This has been discussed a million times. The debian- lists will not start setting Reply-To: just because you say they should. If you don't like that, that's life I guess. I personally hate subscribing to lists which do set Reply-To: but that doesn't give me the right to bitch about it for days on end wasting everyone's time. Have a nice day, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp9xzYt4rkOF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: 'testing' dep conflicts
On Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 12:10:41AM +0100, Sven Burgener wrote: Hello I am running 'testing', upgraded from potato a few days ago. Two questions: 1. Why are packages kept back like follows? $ apt-get update apt-get upgrade [ snip ] The following packages have been kept back base-passwd bin86 bsdgames bsdutils cpp cron e2fsprogs ed fetchmail fileutils findutils ftp g++ gcc libc6 libc6-dev libreadline4 libstdc++2.10-dev locales login mount ntop passwd patch pciutils setserial telnet traceroute util-linux wget The following packages will be upgraded debianutils dialog gettext-base gnupg groff info libnewt0 libstdc++2.10 procmail whiptail 10 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 30 not upgraded. First, since you're upgrading from potato to woody (you've changed distributions), you should use `apt-get dist-upgrade'. Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies: debianutils: PreDepends: libc6 (= 2.1.97) but 2.1.3-13 is to be installed E: Internal Error, InstallPackages was called with broken packages! I just did an update/upgrade here (running woody) and I've now got debianutils 1.14 and libc6 2.2-6. What's your apt sources/list look like? Perhaps your mirror is off kilter. No, now that I look at it the problem is that libc6 is being held back. Try the dist-upgrade method instead. HTH, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpBUC4D5YneJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#80544: [rename] can't rename dir with valid permissions
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 03:05:50AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: Martin. Yes. I tried. Do you think I'm a newbie or something? Why do you think the file is owned by root? It's on windows partition... Hold on ... this is an msdos partition mounted? If so, check out man 8 mount; specifically the uid and gid options. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpvBSVvhDxPf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Location of -doc documentation?
On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 11:35:06PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: Nathan E Norman wrote: http://.../doc/apache;, while `debconf-doc' puts it under http://.../debconf-doc/;. I beleive the original point was that debconf-doc places its documentation in /usr/share/doc/debconf-doc, while apache-doc places its documentation in /usr/share/doc/apache, rather than /usr/share/doc/apache-doc. (Principle of least surprise, I suppose). Oh, then he was missing a /doc'. I suppose debconf-doc could do that. Except it includes an expanded changelog.Debian.gz file (35k). I'm not willing to argue that one way is better than the other :) on the one hand, I'd expect the docs to be in a directory named after the package containing the docs. On the other hand apache and IIRC bind put docs in the package directory rather than package-doc, so I've grown accustomed to this as well. Consistency would be nice, but I don't think this is a huge issue, especially given other issues facing the project at this time. Regards, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpPaTcDJjJaW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Location of -doc documentation?
On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 11:48:32PM +0100, Arthur Korn wrote: Joey Hess schrieb: Karl M. Hegbloom wrote: I just noticed that `apache-doc' puts the documentation under http://.../doc/apache;, while `debconf-doc' puts it under http://.../debconf-doc/;. Eh? (Debconf-doc is a package, that contains some documentation files. It doesn't touch the web space at all.) Well, it touches /usr/doc, and /etc/apache/srm.conf has an Alias /doc/ /usr/doc/. HTH I beleive the original point was that debconf-doc places its documentation in /usr/share/doc/debconf-doc, while apache-doc places its documentation in /usr/share/doc/apache, rather than /usr/share/doc/apache-doc. (Principle of least surprise, I suppose). Cheers, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgp1nRNDcdfpa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#80343: general: Lack of policy on which files should be owned by which user
On Tue, Dec 26, 2000 at 04:43:53AM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: Brian May wrote: - harder to administrate /etc/passwd as more users exist. I like using groups to give different sets of rights and I'm annoyed by Debian giving every user his own group. Is that reall necessary? It's useful when you're in a development environment where you've got directories that are group writable. On the other hand, I'd guess most large-scale development projects now use CVS rather than group writable directories as a sharing mechanism. FWIW when I was a sysadmin I generally put all untrusted users in a single group (or divided them into classes of groups). Regards, -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Inc. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpjCOCKfltIo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RBL report..
On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 02:31:50PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Larry Gilbert wrote: Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a Received: header to show where messages are originating? This information is useful when trying to track down actual spammers. Is this being deliberately omitted or does qmail just normally not include this info? This is deliberately removed, we had some problems a year or so ago with the received lines getting too long for some mailers. We are looking at putting them back. Couldn't the original Received: headers be renamed to X-Received: (or something like that; although I could figure out how to make that happen with formail I don't know my mail headers well enough to know if X-Received is already used by something else). -- Nathan Norman Eschew Obfuscation Network Engineer GPG Key ID 1024D/51F98BB7http://home.midco.net/~nnorman/ Key fingerprint = C5F4 A147 416C E0BF AB73 8BEF F0C8 255C 51F9 8BB7 pgpVUXATe6qvd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Missing parse-xf86config breaks login.app [was: Re: New version of xserver-svga gives poorer display on laptop]
On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 02:48:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 06:05:43PM +0400, Konstantin Kivi wrote: I also had to add Set_LCDClk 40 to the Device section. Be aware that parse-xf86config used in /etc/init.d/xdm doesn't unserstand it Be aware that because of problems like this, parse-xf86config has been eliminated from recent XFree86 packages. Potato will ship without it. For what it's worth (very little :) this breaks the automatic install for login.app. Personally it's no big deal to edit /etc/inittab by hand, but a newbie might find this troublesome. Perhaps the lines should be added to /etc/inittab but commented out. Should I file a wishlist bug? -- Nathan Norman Eschew Obfuscation Network Engineer GPG Key ID 1024D/51F98BB7http://home.midco.net/~nnorman/ Key fingerprint = C5F4 A147 416C E0BF AB73 8BEF F0C8 255C 51F9 8BB7 pgpvX47ej9JbJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Packages to remove from frozen
On Tue, Mar 07, 2000 at 11:26:12PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote: On Tue, Mar 07, 2000 at 03:13:36PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: Michael Stone wrote: Not very backward-compatible, is it? In some environments it's desirable to have the software behave the same on every platform; even if it's buggy, the bugs need to be consistent. This is linux. We break backwards compatability if we have to do do things *right*. How is it right to spit out an error message on every connection that adds nothing to most people's use of the product? Especially when there exists a verbose mode for people who want lots of gory details about the efficacy of their connection? SSH doesn't tell me the key length of connections *except* in this one case--which is not consistent, and which is not unambiguously *right* behavior. Eh, well, it is correct[1] behavior to toss out an error message in this case since it's notifying you of a *security* problem. In fact, it's telling you that the server key is half as secure as the server claims it is. If you and your users don't care about security then I'm sure the error is a real pain in the ass. Of course, if security isn't an issue then you really don't need to use ssh at all. Generally you complain about issues that have relevance. I think you've missed on this one. Cheers, -- Nathan Norman Eschew Obfuscation Network Engineer GPG Key ID 1024D/51F98BB7http://home.midco.net/~nnorman/ Key fingerprint = C5F4 A147 416C E0BF AB73 8BEF F0C8 255C 51F9 8BB7 [1] Right describes a direction, specifically the one opposite left. pgpFY4jPH9kRJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: scanning my ports
On 26 Sep 1999, Mark W. Eichin wrote: : In addition to apologies to Mr. Norman, perhaps there's some value in : either (1) making tcplogd etc. require enough configuration to force : people to read the documentation, or (2) enhance those packages to : interpret things a little more, so they scare naive users a bit less? No apologies necessary. The mirror services have been restored. I apologise for the incendiery tone of my original email; I was pretty upset. Mr. Lapeyre and I have continued to correspond via private mail and I feel we've got everything worked out. An important point to consider in this particualr case: The PTR record for 24.220.0.13 resolves to pavlov.midco.net rather than debian.midco.net which would certainly be more obvious in most cases. Unfortunately, there are issues with changing the PTR record to a more correct value, as the machine has other responsibilities. My co-workers and I are plannig to purchase a new system board, processor and case which along with some hardware donations ( :) ) will become debian.midco.net, leaving pavlov to his more mundane tasks. This should prove beneficial to both the project and Midcontinent. (If anyone wants to contribute something, let me know. I think we've got it mostly covered.) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: scanning my ports
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, John Lapeyre wrote: : Dear Security Staff: :I received 2086 connection attempts at several ports on September 22. : The attempts were made from IP address pavlov.midco.net [24.220.0.13] : The machine whose ports were scanned is 128.196.189.45 . : Please make sure that this port scanning does not happen again. : : Here are the first and last connection attempts : : Sep 22 02:01:23 homey tcplogd: auth connection attempt from pavlov.midco.net [24.220.0.13] : Sep 22 21:20:18 homey tcplogd: port 24011 connection attempt from pavlov.midco.net [24.220.0.13] : : Thanks for your cooperation. Mr. Lapeyre, You do realise that pavlov.midco.net is part of the DNS rotation http.us.debian.org? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ host pavlov.midco.net pavlov.midco.netA 24.220.0.13 ^^^ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ host http.us.debian.org http.us.debian.org A 206.187.92.15 http.us.debian.org A 207.69.194.216 http.us.debian.org A 209.249.97.234 http.us.debian.org A 141.213.4.21 http.us.debian.org A 24.220.0.13 ^^^ I see no evidence in the logs that you are being port scanned - I feel it's more likely that your use of the mirror here is at issue. You may of course disagree. Nevertheless, I will shut down the mirror here and rebuild this machine from scratch, implementing draconian and paranoid security measures. If I receive further complaints of abuse from Debian project participants, I will be forced to remove the mirror entirely. Complaints to [EMAIL PROTECTED] are viewed by members of the management team as well as members of the technical staff, and I regret to inform you that one of the members of the management team has reacted to your complaint in an abusive and non-productive manner that will certainly impact our ability to help Debian in the future. I regret the shoot the messenger tone of this email; understandably security is important and potential abuses should be dealt with swiftly and forcefully, given the state of the Internet today. Nevertheless, common sense can and should be exercised whenever possible. I reiterate that today I remove pavlov.midco.net from the mirror rotation http.us.debian.org. HTTP, FTP, and RSYNC access to this machine will be turned off upon completion of this email. The machine will be shut down and rebuilt from scratch. Mirror services *may* be restored at that point, if I can convince management that the benefits of hosting a mirror outweigh the liabilities. Sincerely, - -- Nathan Norman - Network Specialistmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] High Speed Internet Accesshttp://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key ID: (0xA33B86E9) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBN+0ovAXl8N+jO4bpAQGTmQP9Eyff8etuyzQkYx3kKry2QJTlpP5KGTj4 hiIkViV2d3T6rOJ1paeESYjMrzycNLBBdqSNMvmnBYMzSC3fY9ykdNBSC/wUEBfq Q4oCG+OYOovDJDQXxurDj0/HgZzoIGPt8lx3ODDox34jris/hhu3qruE9RlHcT13 0sgwXKTBcp8= =fgR7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Steve Lamb in my killfile.
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Jonathan Walther wrote: : Will someone please notify me when Steve Lamb becomes a reasonable person. : As of 2 minutes ago, all mail from him is being sent to /dev/null by : procmail. Notification will be on the 11:00 news right after Hell Freezes Over and Monkeys Fly Out of My Butt. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Intent to package netStreamer
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shaleh wrote: [ intent to package snipped ] Is there a URL for this, or is the code only available via supernatural revelation? -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Intent to package netStreamer
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shaleh wrote: : : On 01-Feb-99 Nathan E Norman wrote: : On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shaleh wrote: : : [ intent to package snipped ] : : Is there a URL for this, or is the code only available via supernatural : revelation? : : Only the truly blessed may wonder upon its blessed page .. : : No (= : : http://flits102-126.flits.rug.nl/~rolf/ Cool - I've been looking for this URL since last summer! I was pretty excited about it hten; I hope you get it working :) : BTW if you are involved with debian.midco.net, thanks for a great mirror. I'm glad it's useful! -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Debian 2.[01] -- Only rudimentary support for Laptops?
On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: : Hi, : : I have an IBM ThinkPad 380XD. I have found that 2.0.x kernels just don't : work properly, my machine will crash or shutdown during boot. I believe that : the best thing that can be done to support laptops is to create boot disks : with 2.1.125 kernels. 2.1.125 works well on my laptop in every way and has : fixed the problems with RAM disks that older 2.1.x kernels had. : : : Sorry to jump into discussion... Well, I ABSOLUTELYU agree with Russel. I : also installed linux on IBM ThinkPad 380XD. It's my 6-th Debian installation : around and definitly the most embarrasing one. I DO agree that ThinkPad 380XD : is quite new piece of hardware, and don't want to blame anyone or anything, : but perhaps we may pay closer attention to Laptop instalation problems. : : 1. Official booting disketes - DOES NOT work (tecra also!) : 2. Official kernel 2.0.34 - DOES NOT work (constant reboot) I've got a 380Z - a zImage kernel worked for me. Of course, there is no official zImage rescue disk :/ -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Live file system
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Michael Meskes wrote: : On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 07:37:10PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: : Do we have a complete filesystem on CD like SuSE does? It's a nice addition : for those short in disk space. : : Please send an appropriate patch to the debian-cd maintainer. : : That means there is none? I don't have a patch. Neither am I going to create : one, but a collegue that I try to persuade to switch from SuSE might be : interested. The live file system is the only thing that keeps him from : switching and he might be willing to put some time into it. : : So if we don't have it I talk to him and tell you more. IIRC Dale Scheetz used to have one for bo (sorry if I'm wrong, Dale :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, David Welton wrote: : On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:45:36PM -0400, Justin Maurer wrote: : : ah, but imdb is missing one important character (at least!). : rc! the radio control car! : : i say rc should be 2.2, as i have before. : : Debian 2.2, on the FTP site, is called sid. If you guys want to : discuss this, at least make it clear that you are talking about 2.3 or : 3 or whaterver. : : hamm - slink - sid : 2.0 - 2.1 - 2.2 : : For example, those of us doing the arm port are already using Sid. We : won't have anything for slink. I thought sid was a permanent unstable release, never to be released as stable. I don't have the original email in front of me, though. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Bob Nielsen wrote: [ snip ] : That's from the credits, but there are some more : : r.c. (mentioned previously) : molly : snake : robot : etch : mike : mr. spell : lenny : claw : : There were a few others, but I couldn't pick out the names from the : soundtrack. My son has the Toy Story game for the Mac ... I'll see if I can glean a few more from that :) (Looks like you've done a commendable job, however). -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: Gothenburg - Vancouver
On 24 Jun 1998, Turbo Fredriksson wrote: : Oki, I'm leaving for Vancouver next Friday (3/7). I'll be stopping by London : over the weekend and leave Sunday around 1800. I don't know when I'll be : back online, I'll get 'Net access through 'Rogers wave'... xDSL, jummy :) Wildly off topic ... isn't The Wave cable modem access? -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gothenburg - Vancouver
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Avery Pennarun wrote: : On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:06:06PM +0200, Turbo Fredriksson wrote: : : Wildly off topic ... isn't The Wave cable modem access? : : Hmmm... You really got me there... I have been lead to beleve it's xDSL, : but I'm not sure... Anyone? : : It's cable modem, and it's REALLY fast (about 400kbits/sec, full time : connection for somthing like $60 Canadian/month). : : That said, I don't know what xDSL is. Maybe that's what cable modems are :) Nope. Cable modems are currently proprietary protocols, though there is a standard (MCNS) approaching. At that point you'll be able to go to Best Buy or Circuit City (or wherever) and buy a cable modem provided your local cable co has MCNS head end equipment. Cable modems currently run anywhere between 400 kbps to 30 Mbps. Some sytems are symmetric, but most are not. We run LANCity modems which are capable of 10Mbps - residential customers are limited to 1.5Mbps. DSL stands for Digital Subscriber Loop. Basically it involves sending a digital signal over existing copper pairs. I believe 768kbps symmetric is the current limitation for DSL bandwidth. There are different flavors of DSL (like HDSL, ADSL ...) so the phone companies talk about xDSL :) One major limitation of DSL is that you must be less than 19000 feet from a CO (round trip). Nevertheless, DSL will be an attractive alternative to cable for some people ... -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 19980623 Work-Needing and Prospective Packages
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Jules Bean wrote: [ snip ] : While I'm typing, what mailing list is the WNPP on? It doesn't seem to be : any of the ones I'm on... I believe it's on debian-devel-announce - that's where I see it anyway :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gothenburg - Vancouver
On 24 Jun 1998, Rob Browning wrote: [ snip ] : IP whenever you initially fire up your computer and click their start : button, but that's the extent of my knowledge. Mainly I don't know : if they've got some proprietary way to configure the connection. I believe RoadRunner uses a proprietary login program to establish the connection (which is nonsense IMO) See comp.dcom.modems.cable for detailed discussion :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On 19 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with : DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It : works fine here. : : It didn't work here. I use xntp3 to sync my clock, and it would : always get set to Eastern time until I changed to CST6CDT. After : making that change, it now gives results like yours. Ok, fair enough. I'm assuming you have the same program versions installed as I do? Do you have your hardware clock set to UTC or local time? (Someone said this is a red herring, but I'd like to know that for certain). Mine is set to UTC. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: More corrupted utmp/wtmp
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Troy Hanson wrote: : I am having problems on 2 machines (both upgraded from bo). with the : utmp/wtmp. : : The output below is from a machine that never has had an Xterm running : (telnet access only): : : $ last : ;* *.*5 192.168.5.51 Wed Dec 31 21:26 still logged in : : wtmp begins Tue Jun 16 08:45:00 1998 : : I have similar things on the other machine, which only occasionally runs an : xterminal (it really gets messed up after exiting an xterm, otherwise it : looks similar to above. : : I used the autoup.sh script to go from bo to hamm, and everything else : seems to be working splendidly. : : Any tips on what to look at? Do you have ssh installed? (or anything else from non-US) ... I seem to recall some troubles with the libc5 version of ssh ... -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : : : Hi, : : I noticed with surprise tonight that my clock was an hour off. : : Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said : US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to : SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. : : However, the install program, and tzconfig, both have a problem. They : do not explain the difference, why one might work and the other : might not, etc. Also, why does US/Central not work? : : The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer : the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same : goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar : will always get incorrect times. : : I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. : It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight : Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet : settings for the other timezones as well. Huh? I live in the Central timezone, and I can assure you that we practice Daylight Savings Time. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 09:12:45 CDT 1998 All of our servers are set to US/Central - except the BSDi box :) We currently have 8 Debian boxes here. All run either xntp, or ntpdate periodically. One of the Debian boxes is a tier 3 NTP server - a Bay router helps out in that capacity as well. I believe the non-DST zones are specifically spelled out, like US/Arizona. I believe US/Indiana-Starke and US/East-Indiana serve a similar purpose but I don't live there, so I really can't say. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Brandon Mitchell wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : : On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : : Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said : US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to : SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. : : I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. : It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight : Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet : settings for the other timezones as well. : : In tzconfig, it prompts you for your geographic area. Just about everyone : I can think of will select US if they are in the US. But if what you are : saying is correct, non of those settings are for people with Daylight : Savings Time. There should be an alternative list under the US section : that is for people with Daylight Savings Time. Sorry, but I think US/Central works as advertised. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 09:29:29 CDT 1998 I know this said CST when we weren't on DST. Furthermore, it shouldn't say CDT if It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... : : Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. That may be :) : If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of : Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their : non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and : mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, : I hate daylight shavings time) : : The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly : doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem : before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how : to fix it. What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It works fine here. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 kepler:~ $ date --utc Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp 279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd Where's the problem? I'm confused. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) [ package info ] kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezones Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- ii timezones 2.0.7pre1-4Time zone data files and utilities. kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezone Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- pn timezonenone (no description available) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: : : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : : : Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... : : : : Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. : : That may be :) : : : If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of : : Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their : : non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and : : mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, : : I hate daylight shavings time) : : : : The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly : : doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem : : before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how : : to fix it. : : What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with : DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It : works fine here. : : kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone : US/Central : kepler:~ $ date : Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 : kepler:~ $ date --utc : Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 : kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp :279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd : : Where's the problem? I'm confused. : : Me too ;-) : : We are working on a report of failure in US/central WRT Daylight Savings : Time, right? Correct :) : There is one variable we haven't nailed down yet. The hardware clock can : be set either to local time or GMT (UTC). As I remember, the failure only : happens when the clock is set to one of these two. (Memory says Local Time : is the broken one) Ah, I'd forgotten about that. I believe your memory is correct. : Your output, if I can count right (not guaranteed), indicates a 5 hour : difference from GMT, which, I think, is correct. Which way is your : hardware clock set? Hardware clocks here are set to UTC - I figure they're servers, up 24/7 (no dual booting to Win95 :) so UTC is the right decision. I will try another machine at home which iirc is set to local time. CDT is indeed UTC-5, and CST is UTC-6. So, to recap: I'm using US/Central timezone, with hardware clocks set to UTC, and all is well here. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
License
Where can I find a good reference to LICENSES? We are looking at EW-too (the talker code) - here is the license: The EW-too code and concept are copyright Simon Marsh, August 1994. Permission is hereby granted for the code to be copied, changed, and used for any non-profit making purpose in any way you wish as long as you credit the original author and any other contributors. This should include a message that users of the program will see when they connect during runtime. EW-too is supplied as is. The authors disclaims all warranties, expressed or implied, including, without limitation, the warranties of merchantability and of fitness for any purpose. The authors assumes no liability for damages, direct or consequential, which may result from the use of EW-too. I would assume the non-profit part makes it non-free ... -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VI reasons (was Re: Base Set: Suggested additions removals.)
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Wichert Akkerman wrote: : Previously Dale Scheetz wrote: : ae already does this, and provides a reasonably vi ish interface, just to : satisfy those whose fingers are only programmed for vi. : : Personally, I find ae's vi-compatibility even worse then normal ae: it : tricks me into thinking it's vi, but I can never resist using some : vi-magic which confuses ae and gives me horrible results. Seconded. I've been training myself to type `ae' rather than `vi' when using the rescue disk - i've screwed things up too many times thinking I was actually using vi. Dale, I don't mind `ae' - it works :) But the vi mappings I don't like. Realising this is another of those religious debates I'll stop now :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: boot-floppies package
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Vincent Renardias wrote: : : On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: : : We have a ton of older PS/2 MCA machines around here, many with ESDI : disks, others with the IBM SCSI HBA. Neither ESDI nor the IBM HBA are : supported by the current rescue disks. : : The lastest boot disks from Debian 1.3 work just fine; I've used them for : installing on a MCA Laptop (ESDI drive) which I upgraded to : hamm-current immediatly after. : But I agree it's not a reason not to support MCA in hamm too. ;) : : Cordialement, But, they do not support the IBM MCA/SCSI Adaptor, which means you see the disconcerting No hard drives found message. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: boot-floppies package
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: : : Hello, : [ snip ] : If all you need to do is put a different kernel on the rescue floppy : (which is what it sounds like) simply take the delivered image, mount it, : and copy the kernel image from your custom package (the vmlinuz file) to : the file linux on the mounted image. : : You can either dd the image to a floppy, mount the floppy (msdos) and copy : the kernel, or you can mount the image file with one of the loop devices : and do the replacement to the image file. Any future copies of that image : file will have the new kernel. Yes, I know this. However, what people have been asking for is an image of the rescue disk, not a new kernel for the disk (it is difficult to run rdev.sh if you have no Linux system handy) Furthermore, it might become necessary to change the available modules (I honestly don't know whether this is the case), and I don't believe the rescue disk has device files for ESDI disks. They are /dev/ed[ab], correct? Vincent Renardias says the 1.3 boot disks support MCA (they do) and ESDI (I never found /dev/ed[ab] devices). No Debian boot disk supports IBM MCA/SCSI afaik. Finally, I'd really like to *know* how to build these things! Why is it so opaque? Thanks, -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: boot-floppies package
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: [ snip ] : Furthermore, it might become necessary to change the available modules : (I honestly don't know whether this is the case), and I don't believe : the rescue disk has device files for ESDI disks. They are /dev/ed[ab], : correct? Vincent Renardias says the 1.3 boot disks support MCA (they : do) and ESDI (I never found /dev/ed[ab] devices). No Debian boot disk : supports IBM MCA/SCSI afaik. : : The SCSI drivers are usually built-in to the kernel, so this is just : another kernel issue. Yes, you're correct. I've built a kernel that works fine, and as you mentioned if I unpack the root fs I could add the device files (some of this is becoming more clear as I go on) : Finally, I'd really like to *know* how to build these things! Why is it : so opaque? : : Building the root file system is a non-trivial problem. The boot-floppies : package builds everything that you find in a disks-i386 directory, so it : is a bit complex. : : The cryptic instructions that you indicated previously are an indication : of the place to tailor the package to your system. If memory serves, there : are two paths defined in the top of the make file. One is the path to the : kernel image (note: not a kernel package...I think), while the other is : the path to your archive (used to built the root fs) Well, looking at the Makefile, there is a directive for the archive base. I have a local mirror mounted via NFS, so I specified that. No problem. Further perusal of the Makefile reveals that it is indeed looking for a kernel-image deb ... aren't the kernel-image-version files built with kernel-package? I thought they were ... At any rate, if I run ``make'' without modifying the Makefile, I end up with a set of floppy images. However, if I change the ``kernel'' definition to point at my own kernel-image deb, make bombs out with No rule to make target `kernel-image-2.0.33_2.0.33-6.deb', needed by `linux'. Stop which indicates to me that I don't have a clue what's happening here. : Also, I don't believe that there are any modules installed on the root fs : of the rescue disk. It is assumed that any other drivers will be installed : from the drivers disk. This disk just contains a tarball of the modules : directories. Indeed. That was my motivation for using the boot floppies script in the first place: if I roll a new kernel, with a different set of modules, and then want that to be usable for others I need to distribute the rescue disk *and* the drivers disk, right? I figured I would use the tool provided for the job rather than doing it all by hand. Perhaps this was an error. : For my last custom CD I rebuilt the rescue and drivers disks to use the : 2.0.33 kernel. This was simply a matter of replacing the drivers disk : tarball with one built from the 2.0.33 kernel modules directories, and : replacing the kernel image on the rescue floppy with the kernel image from : the 2.0.33 kernel. I did both of these things to the image files : (resc1440.bin, resc1200.bin, drv1440.bin, and drv1200.bin) which could : then be used by the installer to build rescue and drivers disks. This is more or less the functionality I'm looking for. Are there compatibility issues with different kernel versions vs. the base disks themselves? : I don't see where you gain any needed functionality by doing this job with : the boot-floppies package. In addition, you stand the chance of building : an unusable root file system if the archive you build it from is different : from the one used to build the original. As you don't need anything : changed in the root fs (as far as I can tell) why take the chance of : making it non-functional? I don't understand this part. Could you explain this a bit more, if you have time? Private email is fine ... I feel terribly stupid but I just don't quite get why the filesystem would be unusable Having said that, you are probably correct as far as the usefulness of boot-floppies for this project. I'm probably trying to kill a gnat with a shotgun ... Thanks for your time :) -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NPR piece on Linux
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Jeff Noxon wrote: : Anyone have a digitized copy of this? :) : : Thanks, http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/980408.atc.14.ram -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
boot-floppies package
Hello, We have a ton of older PS/2 MCA machines around here, many with ESDI disks, others with the IBM SCSI HBA. Neither ESDI nor the IBM HBA are supported by the current rescue disks. So, in a not quite right state of mind, I decided I would make some boot floppies so that my coworkers, and anyone else with PS/2s out there could make use of my work rather than hack through the installs (the usual method) However, the boot-floppies system has got me confused. I'm not a Makefile wizard, so digging in there is a bit tough. The documentation is otherwise quite sparse (it says Edit the variables in the Makefile :) Here's the problem ... I need to use a special kernel image. How do I tell boot-floppies to use it? If I give it the path to my kernel-image package, it bombs out saying I don't know how to make your-kernel-image which is required by linux ... which isn't too meaningful to me. Doesn't it just want to unpack the kernel-image deb? I'm confused. I really don't need to remake the entire boot-disk set, just the rescue disk and the drivers disk. Someone want to slap me and set me straight here? Thanks, -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Integrating main, non-us ftp site
If I attempt to do a dselect install via ftp from a local mirror which has both the main debian distribution as well as the non-US stuff, it doesn't work. Not without jumping through some serious hoops, at any rate. The problem is that the Packages file on the non-US site do not follow the same conventions as the packages file on the main ftp site. For bo, the main Packages file contains entries like Filename: stable/binary-i386/x11/9fonts_1-4.deb ^^ Filename: bo/binary-i386/bzip_0.21-3.deb ^^ For hamm, the main Packages file contains entries like Filename: dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/text/2utf_1.01.deb, ^^^ but the non-US site's Packages file contains entries like Filename: hamm/binary-i386/apache-ssl_1.2.4+1.11-2.deb I understand (I think) why this is the way it is, but it makes it impossible to use a symlink to get at the non-US stuff via ftp (using dselect). I don't have any great ideas for the bo links, but if the non-US site kept its files in dists/unstable/non-us life would be a lot easier. Any chance there will be a solution forthcoming, or do I need to shut up and hack the Packages files on my mirror? (Easy to do but mirror will be pissed). If no one else has any interest in doing anything like this then it's not worth implementing, I suppose. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: dpkg's version comparison algorithm?
On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, David Frey wrote: : Hello collegues, : : I don't understand dpkg's version compare algorithm: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) : /var/debian/unstable/binary-i386/math$dpkg --compare-versions 1.15 lt : 1.2-1; echo $? 1 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) : /var/debian/unstable/binary-i386/math$dpkg --compare-versions 1.15 lt : 1.20-1; echo $? 0 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) : /var/debian/unstable/binary-i386/math$dpkg --version Debian Linux : `dpkg' package management program version 1.4.0.19 (i386 elf). : Copyright 1994-1996 Ian Jackson, Bruce Perens. This is free software; : see the GNU General Public Licence version 2 or later for copying : conditions. There is NO warranty. See dpkg --licence for details. : ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /var/debian/unstable/binary-i386/math$ : : Why is 1.15 1.2 ? Is it necessary to fill in trailing zeroes? Well, think of it this way: which is greater, 2 or 15? (The . is a delimiter, not a decimal placeloder) Think of kernel version numbers and this will start to make sense. Kernel 2.0.4 is not newer than 2.0.32. : : David : -- : David Frey (51F35923114FC864 7D05FF173C61EFDE) : Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. : -- Henry Spencer : -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: cron jobs more often than daily
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote: : On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 01:26:56PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote: : On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 09:48:42PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: : However, there's no suitable user for this and it needs : to run as root anyway to reset the accounting stats. : Am I stuck with daily? : : Why not add a job like: : : */15 * * * * root/usr/sbin/ipac-cron : : to /etc/crontab? The predecessor of at has done this, too. : : Policy 2.3.0.1 says : : 3.5. Cron jobs : -- : : Packages may not touch the configuration file `/etc/crontab', nor may : they modify the files in `/var/spool/cron/crontabs'. : : Doesn't this rule this out? The mrtg package in hamm adds an entry to /etc/crontab; it also places comments around the entry to aid future removal, I suppose. This may violate policy (I don't know), but it does show that other packages are doing this. : : thanks, : Hamish : -- : Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 : CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org : -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
sulogin timeout, in /etc/init.d/checkroot
Now that we're using rcS.d rather than /etc/init.d/boot, I've noticed some different behavior from 'sulogin'. I have SULOGIN=yes, so I have a chance to go single-user on reboot. However, the timeout does not work! If I reboot the machine, I must physically hit ^D to continue the boot, no matter what the timeout is set to in /etc/init.d/rootcheck. For now, I've set SULOGIN=no, but I liked the old way better. Anyone else had trouble with this, or is it just me? BTW, I've been running hamm for a month or so now; I try to update at least weekly. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: sulogin timeout, in /etc/init.d/checkroot
On 23 Dec 1997, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: : In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], : Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : Now that we're using rcS.d rather than /etc/init.d/boot, I've noticed : some different behavior from 'sulogin'. I have SULOGIN=yes, so I have : a chance to go single-user on reboot. However, the timeout does not : work! If I reboot the machine, I must physically hit ^D to continue : the boot, no matter what the timeout is set to in /etc/init.d/rootcheck. : : It's a bug in init caused by different signal behaviour in libc6, it : doesn't have anything to do with /etc/rcS.d : : I'll fix it in 2.73, but I cannot release that yet because I have to : clear up some conflicts with the maintainer of ``kbd'' (conflicts between : our respective packages, that is :)) Ah! Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I can live without sulogin for a while :) : : Mike. : -- : Miquel van Smoorenburg | Studying to be a technomage * : [EMAIL PROTECTED] | May you live in interesting times : -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: status of bzip
On 11 Dec 1997, Guy Maor wrote: : Michael Sobolev [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : Whoops, forget I said the above sentence, I can't seem to find bzip : anywhere in Debian... My fingers automatically typed gzip instead of : bzip when searching :-( : The last time it was seen in non-us distribution. : : Because of the patent issue presumably. I've always thought that was : inconsistent as we have plenty of lzw/gif software in non-free, NOT : non-us. : : : Guy I thought the bzip algorithm was the issue ... isn't it patented or some such nonsense in the US, while the rest of the world doesn't believe in such patents? (Same issue as RSA ...) Of course, I could be delirious and wrong, you never can tell. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 phone: (605) 334-4454 fax: (605) 335-1173 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net PGP Key ID: 0xA33B86E9 - Public key available at keyservers PGP Key fingerprint: CE03 10AF 3281 1858 9D32 C2AB 936D C472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: problems with SHA-1
On 25 Jun 1997, Mark Eichin wrote: : : IBM developed a cypher called lucifer. The NSA examined it, : recommended some changes to the algorithm, and the result was DES. : :Changes which, we now know, *strengthened* it against differential :cryptanalysis (which they new about in the 70's, and called the :sliding attack, if I remember Copperfield's comments correctly...) Yes and no ... they did weaken the S-boxes : (Why did they approve it?? They *break* codes) : :That's only one of their jobs. They're *also* in charge of *providing* :communications security to the government. ... but that doesn't include providing security to the public at large. Therefore, I stand by my statement, as it applies to you and me, not government agencies. I think recent events concerning cryptography export laws, key escrow, clipper, etc. strengthen rather than reduce my argument. : Also, DES is not approved by the government for internal use if the : security level is Top Secret or above (if memory serves correctly). : :Nope; it's actually not approved for *any* classification level. NSA :supplies special tools and keying material for classified data :handling. DES was for *commercial* and *personal* data... My mistake. I looked this up and you're 100% correct :) : Strange that the government recommends that businesses use a cypher they : don't use, don't you think? : :Nope; as far as is publically known, for classified material they only :ever approved *hardware* solutions. (In the original DES spec, a :correct implementation had to be in hardware; certification of :software implementations came maybe 10 years later...) Of course, we :only know this after 20+ years of scrutiny and analysis, and that :doesn't help us judge the *current* political situation. You really don't answer the question, in spite of the nope.. *Why* does the government insist that the business and personal communities trust an algortihm that thay themselves don't use? Doesn't that display an implicit mistrust? If I sold you software that I wrote but refused to let my employees use it, wouldn't you find that odd? Also, as far as I can tell, software DES has never been approved. You are correct that the first implementation approved was in hardware. Also, it is my understanding that the military uses one-time pad encryption. I do know they have a lot of trust in their radio scrambling systems (we used them a lot) :Also note that although SHA predated the MD5 attack mentioned here, :didn't SHA-1 (with a change from a shift to a rotate in one place, or :something subtle like that) come later? I'll confess ignorance to the details of SHA. :DES is way past it's prime, which is why 3DES, though computationally :expensive, is a convincing followon partly *because* it takes :advantage of the extensive history of DES. (3DES, like DES, still :only gives you a 64bit hash, though, so it doesn't compete with :SHA/RIPEMD/MD5...) Recent events have shown DES to be totally worthless for real security (the challenge). My argument was, and remains this: I think any good cryptographic algorithm, regardless of who wrote it, should be considered for the future. Some folks in the government seem to feel that only they should have the right to introduce new algorithms, often without releasing the details to public scrutiny. I am not a cryptanalysis expert: those who are seem to be saying that only those algorithms which are fully public should be trusted. Many of the current alternatives available don't seem to meet this criterion or have a suitable bit length. I like the internet in general and Linux in particular because they provide people with the opportunity to empower themselves with information. Good cryptography also does this. I'm not a dissident - I'm actually quite conservative in many ways, but I do object to policies that prevent honest people from empowering themselves. -- Nathan Norman:Hostmaster CFNI:[EMAIL PROTECTED] finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key and other stuff Key fingerprint = CE 03 10 AF 32 81 18 58 9D 32 C2 AB 93 6D C4 72 -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: problems with SHA-1
On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Shaya Potter wrote: :On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: : : The problem with SHA-1 is that it is a U.S. Federal Information Processing : Standard, and I don't trust that the U.S. government will not place export : restrictions on it. I'm also wary of U.S. FIPS for the same reason I'm wary : about DES - various spy agencies have to approve the standard, and one wonders : if they know something we don't. : : :However, you should know, that all these things are used for items the :govt. wants to keep secure. It wouldn't be too secure if their was a :backdoor. Also, didn't IBM develop DES, not the govt. : :Shaya IBM developed a cypher called lucifer. The NSA examined it, recommended some changes to the algorithm, and the result was DES. I personally want nothing to do with a cypher approved by the NSA. (Why did they approve it?? They *break* codes) Also, DES is not approved by the government for internal use if the security level is Top Secret or above (if memory serves correctly). Strange that the government recommends that businesses use a cypher they don't use, don't you think? -- Nathan Norman:Hostmaster CFNI:[EMAIL PROTECTED] finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key and other stuff Key fingerprint = CE 03 10 AF 32 81 18 58 9D 32 C2 AB 93 6D C4 72 -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Hamm: Exim + Chos standard?
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Mark Baker wrote: : :In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], : Alexander Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : Both qmail (which proved insecure most evil grin) and Exim are not capable : of UUCP or even bang paths! So a lot of those guys in countries where phone : costs are terrible (like in Germany) still use it and they WILL have a problem : then. : :Exim is not capable of bang paths, true, but not many people still use them. :It _is_ capable of uucp so long as you use domain addressing. Admittedly it :is not obvious how to set it up to do so. : :In any case, I don't see anyone suggesting we get rid of smail or sendmail :from the distribution entirely. If you got rid of sendmail I think I'd be upset :) I can see the attractiveness of running a simpler mailer on a smaller site. We have a big site, and I understand sendmail (to some extent, anyway - enough to be dangerous). I personally like it. I personally like a lot of things that many people don't like, so I don't care if my pet packages are the default ... I do wish I had a longer day so I could try some of these things out. Not that anyone necessarily has the time, but would it be worthwhile to create some documents listing categories of packages, comparing and contrasting the competing packages? I know the package descriptions provide this info to some extent, but I guess I'm thinking of a web page that has a 'Mail Packages' link, or whatever ... following the link shows you a list of what's available and how they compare ... if I had the time I'd write something like this. Right now I don't :/ -- Nathan Norman:Hostmaster CFNI:[EMAIL PROTECTED] finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key and other stuff Key fingerprint = CE 03 10 AF 32 81 18 58 9D 32 C2 AB 93 6D C4 72 -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
