Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Lars Wirzenius writes: I guess I'm repeating myself, but oh well. In my opinion, the main Debian distribution (i.e., not including non-free or contrib) should consist only of free software, where the definition of free includes the requirement that source code is available and that the program does not depend in a significant manner on a non-free package, whether the dependency is during compilation, installation or use. XForms is not free (no source). Anything that uses XForms is not free, because you can't compile it without XFree. Okay. Thus it has to go into contrib. Right? All the installer packages likewise. And *-?motif packages. That's quite logical. How about adding a contrib section (or a no-source) section to both standard trees. My problem with contrib is that it is located outside the standard tree. If it were inside I'd say let's move everything that's not completely free in your sense (but free in the copyright sense) there. behind your approach I still think LyX should be an official part of Debian. That would be great, but as long as it depends on non-free stuff, it should go in contrib. Can't we find a way to keep programs like this an official part? We need to have complete source code so that we can port packages to new platforms, or to new tools or libraries. I'm sure XForms is nice, but is there a version of the Alpha? For glibc? For newest XFree shared alpha: Yes! glibc: Don't know. libraries? For gcc with pentium patches? With profiling support? Placing a package in non-free or contrib isn't discriminatory, it's just honesty and makes it possible for people to choosing packages more easily. I'm all for having LyX packaged for Debian, and XForms too, but we aren't helping the user by putting it into the main distribution. I understand your reasoning. But I think it's sort of discriminatory because it's not under rex. Michael -- Michael Meskes |_ __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | / ___// / // / / __ \___ __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \__ \/ /_ / // /_/ /_/ / _ \/ ___/ ___/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]| ___/ / __/ /__ __/\__, / __/ / (__ ) Use Debian Linux!| //_/ /_/ //\___/_/ //
Re: Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Michael Meskes wrote: I'd like to ask the other developers what they think. While I see th elogic behind your approach I still think LyX should be an official part of Debian. Me too. However, I think that the way to accomplish that is to persuade the XForms authors to release the sources under some kind of free license. Or help promote a FreeXForms project. What happens if I recompile it statically? Would it go into the standard tree then? I would still not be able to rebuild from scratch. Any user should be able to rebuild any package in the official Debian distribution from the original source plus our patches.
Re: Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Hi, Michael Meskes wrote: I'd like to ask the other developers what they think. While I see th elogic behind your approach I still think LyX should be an official part of Debian. What happens if I recompile it statically? Would it go into the standard tree then? Being a Debian/m68k user, my opinion is: _Each_ package that is in the standard tree should be compilable for all platforms (ok, there are packages where this does not exactly make sense, like base/mbr on an Amiga, but you get the idea). This also means that for all those packages AND the packages they depend on sources have to be available. LyX requires XForms. XForms is currently not available for m68k (I've started talking to the author, but this might take a while). Even IF we once have XForms for m68k, nobody still has the sources. So I'd say: Both XForms and LyX go into non-free. Compiling/linking LyX statically doesn't change this point, IMHO. Frank
Re: Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Michael Meskes wrote: Ian Jackson writes: No, because packages which depend on contrib packages must go in contrib too. Hmm, that wasn't what was said a while ago when we moved xforms. I'd like to ask the other developers what they think. While I see th elogic behind your approach I still think LyX should be an official part of Debian. What happens if I recompile it statically? Would it go into the standard tree then? If you're going to recompile it statically, I beg of you, provide a non- statically linked version too (in a separate package, perhaps). One of my major gripes about many programs is that they are larger than they need to be, because they are statically linked, and I've got the libraries installed on my system. I've only got 350MB allocated to Linux...! :-) -- Windows is not the answer. Windows is the question. Linux is the answer. http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/ for all your PC software requirements. ;-)
Re: Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Michael Meskes: I'd like to ask the other developers what they think. I guess I'm repeating myself, but oh well. In my opinion, the main Debian distribution (i.e., not including non-free or contrib) should consist only of free software, where the definition of free includes the requirement that source code is available and that the program does not depend in a significant manner on a non-free package, whether the dependency is during compilation, installation or use. XForms is not free (no source). Anything that uses XForms is not free, because you can't compile it without XFree. All the installer packages likewise. And *-?motif packages. If a package is otherwise free, but depends on non-free, it should go to contrib. behind your approach I still think LyX should be an official part of Debian. That would be great, but as long as it depends on non-free stuff, it should go in contrib. What happens if I recompile it statically? Would it go into the standard tree then? As far as I'm concerned, no. That just moves the dependency to another point in time, and additionally causes trouble for users. We need to have complete source code so that we can port packages to new platforms, or to new tools or libraries. I'm sure XForms is nice, but is there a version of the Alpha? For glibc? For newest XFree shared libraries? For gcc with pentium patches? With profiling support? Placing a package in non-free or contrib isn't discriminatory, it's just honesty and makes it possible for people to choosing packages more easily. I'm all for having LyX packaged for Debian, and XForms too, but we aren't helping the user by putting it into the main distribution. -- Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iki.fi/liw/ Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list. pgpaGz9AEMtyN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Package: lyx, ftp.debian.org Version: 0.9.28-1 This package depends on a non-free package (xforms). It should be in contrib, not in the distribution proper. Ian.
Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib'
Subject: Bug#4078: lynx should be in `contrib' Package: lyx, ftp.debian.org I assume that the subject is wrong? (Actually, I know it is, but I'm not sure if it matters for the bug system.) -- Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iki.fi/liw/ Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list. pgpaMy8gC3Nqy.pgp Description: PGP signature
