Re: Forming a Debian bugsquad team (Was: Blacklists in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines))
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 09:01:40PM +0200, Ond??ej Surý wrote: If we are to form the Debian bugsquad team similar to Ubuntu bugsquad team, the main two questions would be: 1. As a Debian Developer/Maintainer would you be thankful for other people to come and help with bugs in your package. 2. Can we find enough volunteers to form such team? The idea would be to have a team of pasionate people who would constantly try to improve Debian as a whole and they would help the maintainers to triage bugs. The criteria for choosing bugs to help with might be: 1. the 'help' tag 2. the 'moreinfo' tag 3. the age of the bug 4. bugs without an answer 5. special user-tag, f.e. 'bugsq...@lists.alioth.debian.org' Well, we already all do that with our plentifull spare time, don't we? At least I see nothing about the bugsquad team having (or needing) any special power any DD (and non DD with a sponsor) already has. But that is on the bug side. More importantly is probably: What is the benefit for someone joining the bugsquad team? For example: Will there be some organization and sharing of skills that make it easier to fix bugs? Like for someone with knowledge in C to join up with someone with knowledge of maintainer scripts to fix a bug that involves both (sorry, it's hard to think of examples). I think finding volunteers will be the problem so you need to create some incentive for people to join the team instead of going at it alone. MfG Goswin PS: Another thing the bugsquad team might do is help with organizing bugsquash parties. Collect instructions on how best to organize such an event. Help with getting sponsors and how to give feedback to sponsors so they feel like their money is well spend and such. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130604111916.GB17877@frosties
Forming a Debian bugsquad team (Was: Blacklists in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines))
If we are to form the Debian bugsquad team similar to Ubuntu bugsquad team, the main two questions would be: 1. As a Debian Developer/Maintainer would you be thankful for other people to come and help with bugs in your package. 2. Can we find enough volunteers to form such team? The idea would be to have a team of pasionate people who would constantly try to improve Debian as a whole and they would help the maintainers to triage bugs. The criteria for choosing bugs to help with might be: 1. the 'help' tag 2. the 'moreinfo' tag 3. the age of the bug 4. bugs without an answer 5. special user-tag, f.e. 'bugsq...@lists.alioth.debian.org' -- On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Bas Wijnen wij...@debian.org wrote: On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 09:04:53AM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote: On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote: He still files all upstream bugs with Debian, but I can't throw stones there; I think it's ok to fill upstream bugs in Debian BTS, but I almost always reply with here's the upstream bugzilla, please be so kind and fill the bug there, it will be much more efficient. He files lots and lots of minor/wishlist bugs, but that isn't abuse. He's one of the few people who regularly files bugs when he finds unclear or confusing documentation, and while that results in a lot of small bugs (and a lot of bugs that are really upstream bugs), I think that's also a valuable *type* of bug that frequently doesn't get enough attention. I agree. On a completely different level, those bugs are also often quite easy to fix (taking mostly time, not much skill), and therefore can be used to attract new developers to a project. Where are these developers you are talking about? Shove them to PHP BTS to triage the bugs. The I see a warning from ucf, let's fill a bug on php5-common finally overflew my cup of patience. Especially with simple wishlist bugs, the submitter doesn't want to dig deep into the package to see what the problem really is. In a case like this, the maintainer should reassign the bug to the package that causes it, just like they should forward it upstream if appropriate. This is a similar action, which as I wrote I consider part of the task of a package maintainer. Some packages are easier to maintain, some are much harder. So it might be easier for you to say than f.e. for me with php, rails, bdb and some other packages in my unfortunate portfolio. How many security bugs did you have in your packages in squeeze? Please understand that our perspectives and experiences with Debian package maintenance might wildly differ. This might be similar to what I have seen in Launchpad – there's a bugsquad team that can handle all bugreports in just any package[1][2]. We have a pretty good NMU system, which lets any DD handle bugs in any package. There's nothing wrong with preparing an NMU for a wishlist bug. So we already have that team. No, we don't have that team. Most if not all people will NMU only for things they care about. I did a lot of NMUs when I planned Berkeley DB transition. Perhaps the QA team is even closer to what you mean, but they always say that any DD is in the QA team, so there isn't really a difference. No, the QA team is not even close. But as you write, most people will not fix (or ask for more info on) wishlist bugs in other people's packages. I am talking about group of people which would help triage the bugs on regular basis, and would help maintainers who cannot find more active maintainers to the team even though the RFH bug is open for more than a year. (And I am thankful for every little contribution I receive) On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 11:46:05AM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote: If you think you are distracted by some bug reports, end users are also distracted by debug messages (which are not clearly debug messages) in the terminal. And speaking for me personally, even if they are clearly debug messages, I still consider it a bug that they were enabled for a release. I don't think I've ever reported such a thing, but I might do that. It's one of those things which is trivial to fix when you're preparing a release anyway, and makes the package a tiny bit better if done right. I sent the original email asking on advice how to make my job somehow easier, because sometimes it's too much and I want to prevent my burnout and burntout of some other fellow Debian Developers. Do you understand that your email saying don't complain, it's your job isn't very helpful? O. -- Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org
Re: Forming a Debian bugsquad team (Was: Blacklists in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines))
Hi, On 27.05.2013 21:01, Ondřej Surý wrote: 1. As a Debian Developer/Maintainer would you be thankful for other people to come and help with bugs in your package. I very much doubt, there is a maintainer in Debian who discourages other people to triage bugs of their own packages. So yes, I suppose this is highly appreciated. 2. Can we find enough volunteers to form such team? That's the actual question. You know, if people would like it to deal with certain bugs (and bug reporters) we would not need find someone else doing it on your behalf. Having that said, there are more jobs that team could take over, like handling bugs against general, or against in-existing packages. Yet I don't think that would be a highly appealing job, but I'm more than happy if others would like to do it. -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Forming a Debian bugsquad team (Was: Blacklists in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines))
Hi, On Montag, 27. Mai 2013, Arno Töll wrote: Having that said, there are more jobs that team could take over, like handling bugs against general, or against in-existing packages. while in general (no pun intended) your idea is quite right, note that currently http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=general lists no bug which merrely needs bug triaging. whats missing (to fix these bugs) is sometimes consenus and always code. cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Forming a Debian bugsquad team (Was: Blacklists in BTS (stopping the trolls and bug machines))
Em 27-05-2013 20:01, Ondřej Surý escreveu: If we are to form the Debian bugsquad team similar to Ubuntu bugsquad team, the main two questions would be: 1. As a Debian Developer/Maintainer would you be thankful for other people to come and help with bugs in your package. on l10n the approach is to first contact the maintainer and tell what's going to happen if it's ok with him/her. I find it very fair and nice. 2. Can we find enough volunteers to form such team? Sure. [...] -- Melhores cumprimentos/Best regards, Miguel Figueiredo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/51a3b97d.20...@debianpt.org
