Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
* Luis Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070105 18:13]: Such a gallery should at least include some notice about the copyright owners and licenses of the parts it is composed from, best with also links to the source packages used. (And the one operating that gallery ask a lawyer if more is needed) ofcourse ... uploading the screenshot, the user is agreeing with it. The user is agreeing with what? Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Sáb, 2007-01-06 às 12:01 +0100, Bernhard R. Link escreveu: * Luis Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070105 18:13]: Such a gallery should at least include some notice about the copyright owners and licenses of the parts it is composed from, best with also links to the source packages used. (And the one operating that gallery ask a lawyer if more is needed) ofcourse ... uploading the screenshot, the user is agreeing with it. The user is agreeing with what? LOL - It was a talk about the screenshots license ... the user is agreeing with the license the site is giving. Debian will propose gpl for the screenshots (or other), and the user must accept it to upload the screenshot. Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Indeed, given applications are not good examples for this matter. Although it would be somewhat a waste of bandwidth, but having a screenshot of a CLI application with output its produces for a typical use case sounds like a good idea IMHO. Or, to make it less waste, I suggest to allow for a 'screenshot' to be of .txt format, where CLI applications would have a terminal output from a few typical use cases outputs. IMHO those would be quite useful to assess the interest of a user to a given package. On Fri, 05 Jan 2007, The Fungi wrote: On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:47:56PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: [...] There is some cli software (links, mutt and mp3blaster come to mind) that have nice text-based UIs [...] To get pedantic, the applications you mention do have text-based interfaces, but are not good examples of a command-line interface (bc, sed, ed, ps, ls, cat...). Note the package descriptions for your examples say text-based, character mode, console, et cetera; but none mention their command-line interface (for those that even have one). -- .-. =-- /v\ = Keep in touch// \\ (yoh@|www.)onerussian.com Yaroslav Halchenko /( )\ ICQ#: 60653192 Linux User^^-^^[17] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:37:53PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: - Provide an HTML interface to the pool If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point to http://screenshots.debian.org/package_name and that's it. Good idea. I'd not though about it that way. We would then only need a default place holder for packages without screenshots. Which would be easy to code if the screenshots access was governed by a CGI. Do you mean server requirements? I guess that it's disk and bandwidth. As for limitations, if you are restricting this to DD uploads there is a severe limitation (i.e. users cannot 'contribute' screenshots) What about my suggestion for user contributed screenshots via bug reports? The BTS accepts attachments to emails, so I think that would work. I think it would be best to follow backports.org here (read its 'contribution' page) and have users upload just like developers, using FTP since that makes it fully automated. Maybe provide a mechanism for DDs to be notified when a screenshot for their package has been uploaded (just like with binary packages) so they can veto it (with a new upload). Going through the BTS route means both clogging the BTS and also needing somebody to manually review the submissions. I say that is a good idea, but I'm not sure how screenshots.debian.org would help your friend. If you are talking about one-five screenshot per package (or per package version) that is hardly sufficient to explain how a package manager works. Better yet if someone wrote a package management document using DocBook and including screenshots and that was published in the website. Here is how it would help. He wants an email client and so he searches for one. The list includes icedove, sylpheed, mutt, kmail, evolution and others. They all have descriptions, but he can't visualize what they look like, especially not being familiar with them. Having screenshots available makes it so that he can compare them, at least based on how they look. Ok. I didn't understand your use case. The use of the descriptions in the packages + screenshots for this use case is certainly something that would help him get idea of wether a given package does (or does not) fit his needs. Regards Javier PS: And after screenshots.debian.org we could go with video-demos.debian.org which provided small animations or videos of the programs *being*used* which is cooler (and could be easy to implement provided there is an infraestructrure for static images) :) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:32:52 -0500 Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this. What I don't really get is, why would we want a similar service in Debian? We should already be pointing to the upstream site with the Homepage: pseudo-header, and in case of GUI programs or games there are usually plenty of screenshots there. I really se no point in doing this. -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. pgp3oF94KB7io.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Friday 05 January 2007 11:55, Andrea Bolognani wrote: What I don't really get is, why would we want a similar service in Debian? We should already be pointing to the upstream site with the Homepage: pseudo-header, and in case of GUI programs or games there are usually plenty of screenshots there. I really se no point in doing this. and with the name of the pkg an i'm feeling luky search will leave you in the homepage of the app. those extra fields like homepage and screenshot have their point in integration with gui pkg managers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:16:25 +0100 Jorge Salamero Sanz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: those extra fields like homepage and screenshot have their point in integration with gui pkg managers. It seems just overkill to me. If the screenshots are going to need an Internet connection to be viewed anyway, why the need to mirror them on a Debian server? And if they are going to be viewable also offline, there should be a way to disable the download: I don't use a GUI frontend, so I don't want to download tons of PNG files I will never use. -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. pgpwug7eGyVAu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 12:16:25PM +0100, Jorge Salamero Sanz wrote: On Friday 05 January 2007 11:55, Andrea Bolognani wrote: What I don't really get is, why would we want a similar service in Debian? We should already be pointing to the upstream site with the Homepage: pseudo-header, and in case of GUI programs or games there are usually plenty of screenshots there. I really se no point in doing this. and with the name of the pkg an i'm feeling luky search will leave you in the homepage of the app. those extra fields like homepage and screenshot have their point in integration with gui pkg managers. The problem with relying upon the upstream site hosting screenshots is that they will most likely be removed/replaced when a new release is made. Consider a package in etch with a header like: X-pic: http://some.project.sf.net/screenshot.jpg (Ignoring 'X-pic', and ignoring the .jpg.) If the upstream releases a new version they will change the screenshot and the link in the frozen Etch package will be misleading. Better by far to have: X-pic: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/version.jpg This way multiple package versions can have distinct images, eg. the package in Etch, the package in Lenny, and the package in Sid. Each of which might look completely different. Steve -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Friday 05 January 2007 12:42, Andrea Bolognani wrote: It seems just overkill to me. If the screenshots are going to need an Internet connection to be viewed anyway, why the need to mirror them on a Debian server? because as Steve says, you can control the pics. And if they are going to be viewable also offline, there should be a way to disable the download: I don't use a GUI frontend, so I don't want to download tons of PNG files I will never use. neither me i want to see my servers full of screenshots of cli apps maybe a pool to screenshots.debian.net where each maintainer could upload the screenshot would be the way ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:41:19 + Steve Kemp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] X-pic: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/version.jpg This way multiple package versions can have distinct images, eg. the package in Etch, the package in Lenny, and the package in Sid. Each of which might look completely different. If we really use that scheme, there would be no need to declare an extra header -- the location of the file can be calculated by the package manager using the name of the package and the version number. I personally find useless to have a single screenshot: what can you really understand about the look and feel of a program by looking at a single screenshot? Far better would be to have some sort of gallery associated to the package, described by a special file, something like --- http://screenshots.debian.net/package/version.xml --- gallery screenshot filenamemain.png/filename descriptionPackage's main window/description /screenshot screenshot filenamepreferences.png/filename descriptionPackage's preferences window/description /screenshot /gallery --- eof --- Then synaptic or whatever other GUI frontend can download that file and show the screenshots as a gallery, giving also a brief description of the picture. -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. pgpcGoOiewjz9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:55:00 +0100 Jorge Salamero Sanz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if they are going to be viewable also offline, there should be a way to disable the download: I don't use a GUI frontend, so I don't want to download tons of PNG files I will never use. neither me i want to see my servers full of screenshots of cli apps maybe a pool to screenshots.debian.net where each maintainer could upload the screenshot would be the way ... What I meant was, I don't use a GUI *APT* frontend, so I will never use the screenshots as well. And BTW, I think no one would ever want to upload screenshots of CLI software ;) -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected. pgpuy1zgsdhKj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 12:59:51PM +0100, Andrea Bolognani wrote: If we really use that scheme, there would be no need to declare an extra header -- the location of the file can be calculated by the package manager using the name of the package and the version number. Agreed. I just wanted to make the point that we'd need to allow for multiple versions of screenshots which I'd not seen mentioned. I personally find useless to have a single screenshot: what can you really understand about the look and feel of a program by looking at a single screenshot? For some things yes, for other things no. I like your idea of an XML/description file containing links to the images and the versions to which they apply a lot though. That also gives a nice canonical location: http://screenshots.debian.net/package-name.xml If going down the XML route then I see no real reason to have a distinct file per version. Instead have something like: package version name=1.2.3debian1 .. images /version version name=1.2.3etch1 /version /package (Or in some other valid way - my XML is weak.) That would allow a person to see all screenshots of available versions in one go, or just those specific to the users distribution (sid/etch/whatever). Steve -- # The Debian Security Audit Project. http://www.debian.org/security/audit -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Friday 05 January 2007 13:09, Steve Kemp wrote: If going down the XML route then I see no real reason to have a distinct file per version. Instead have something like: we should be careful with one xml for all versions if we want to change something in the future.
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 01:37:03PM +0100, Jorge Salamero Sanz wrote: On Friday 05 January 2007 13:09, Steve Kemp wrote: ? If going down the XML route then I see no real reason to have ?a distinct file per version. ?Instead have something like: we should be careful with one xml for all versions if we want to change something in the future. Surely that would be another argument in *favour* of XML? (My understanding is that clients are supposed to ignore tags they don't recognise ..) Steve -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
* Luis Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070104 23:08]: I think the screenshot only package is a good option. The packages can be generated automatically from somewhere and uploaded to debian and target the same version as the package. The could be an web interface to help DD's to upload a gallery of images and select the ones to that version (for example changing package foo-0.3 to 0.3.1 will not change it's look, so, the DD goes to the web interface and ask to rebuild the package for the new version). i also think that user uploaded screenshots can be possible, but i desagree ... or ... their upload is accepted, but, the DD has to select the screenshot from the web interface's screenshot list. Please also keep in mind that screenshots are images and thus copyright protected. While the act of taking them might be (in most cases) trivial enough to not contain enough human creation to not add new rights to it in many jurisditions, screenshosts will most of the time contain copyrighed image material from the package itself, sometimes even from the toolkits it uses. Such a gallery should at least include some notice about the copyright owners and licenses of the parts it is composed from, best with also links to the source packages used. (And the one operating that gallery ask a lawyer if more is needed) Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Friday 05 January 2007 13:54, Steve Kemp wrote: Surely that would be another argument in *favour* of XML? (My understanding is that clients are supposed to ignore tags they don't recognise ..) yes, but what if you want to change to different system in sid? you have to duplicate the stuff or leave stable broken.
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 11:56:02PM -0700, Hubert Chan wrote: Another thing you may want to consider is to allow for redirects. e.g. if someone is looking for screenshots for, say, mozilla, then you can tell them to go to the iceape page instead. I think that can be accomplished by making dummy packages automatically redirect to either their dependency (if only one) or a page listing their dependencies. Kind regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:56:38AM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: I think it would be best to follow backports.org here (read its 'contribution' page) and have users upload just like developers, using FTP since that makes it fully automated. Maybe provide a mechanism for DDs to be notified when a screenshot for their package has been uploaded (just like with binary packages) so they can veto it (with a new upload). Going through the BTS route means both clogging the BTS and also needing somebody to manually review the submissions. OK. That sounds like a good idea. But we would likely need to build a GUI tool help with that as it might encourage more participation from a wider number of users wanting to help. PS: And after screenshots.debian.org we could go with video-demos.debian.org which provided small animations or videos of the programs *being*used* which is cooler (and could be easy to implement provided there is an infraestructrure for static images) :) OK. Once we get this up and running, you are more than welcome to take it from there and extend it to video clips. :-) Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 01:02:35PM +0100, Andrea Bolognani wrote: And BTW, I think no one would ever want to upload screenshots of CLI software ;) Why not? There is some cli software (links, mutt and mp3blaster come to mind) that have nice text-based UIs which can be presented to the user to show him: *yes*, you can do lots of stuff without a graphical frontend in Debian [1]. Not that all CLI software fits in the category of having nice text-based UIs, however. Regards Javier [1] Think of a bandwith-limited ssh connection, for example. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 11:55:02AM +0100, Andrea Bolognani wrote: On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:32:52 -0500 Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this. What I don't really get is, why would we want a similar service in Debian? For several reasons: 1.- Debian is upstream for a number of programs 2.- There is software that has no upstream to speak of 3.- Some upstream sites do not carry screenshots, why force them do it? 4.- The screenshots for a particular version (i.e. the one shipped in stable) for some software (say, an e-mail client) might be quite different than the latest eye-candy produced by upstream with the latest release (because of different functionality being available). 5.- If the location is fixed, it is easier to integrate with package managers and other tools. We should already be pointing to the upstream site with the Homepage: pseudo-header, and in case of GUI programs or games there are usually plenty of screenshots there. Not in all programs, not for all games. I really se no point in doing this. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. If there's somebody (Roberto) that thinks it is a worthwhile idea I say we let him do it and, if it turns out to be a good idea (like I think it is) it will keep momentum and will find its own space in the universe of ideas, if it's not, it will die [1] Regards Javier [1] Harsh, but it's Charles Darwin's evolutionist theory applied to software :) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:47:56PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
[...]
There is some cli software (links, mutt and mp3blaster come to mind)
that have nice text-based UIs
[...]
To get pedantic, the applications you mention do have text-based
interfaces, but are not good examples of a command-line interface
(bc, sed, ed, ps, ls, cat...). Note the package descriptions for
your examples say text-based, character mode, console, et cetera;
but none mention their command-line interface (for those that even
have one).
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Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Sex, 2007-01-05 às 14:13 +0100, Bernhard R. Link escreveu: Such a gallery should at least include some notice about the copyright owners and licenses of the parts it is composed from, best with also links to the source packages used. (And the one operating that gallery ask a lawyer if more is needed) ofcourse ... uploading the screenshot, the user is agreeing with it. my thought goes to application only upload, i.e. ... a screenshot for evolution would a screenshot of only the evolution window and maybe on some interacting with the system. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: I'd be interested in knowing: * Would such an idea be feasible? Yes, it only requires somebody to code in the missing pieces (i.e. all of them) * Would maintainers be willing to occasionally upload screenshots? I would. * What would be a good way to get started? (*) - Code in an upload queue implementing something akin to master (i.e. upload through anonymous ftp and put the screenshots in a pool, define a changes file format to describe which version is being screenshotted etc.) - Provide an HTML interface to the pool If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point to http://screenshots.debian.org/package_name and that's it. As far as getting started: * Would this need to start on debian.net? Probably, until a proof of concept is working and an official domain is provided. * What would be the requirements/limitations/guidelines? Do you mean server requirements? I guess that it's disk and bandwidth. As for limitations, if you are restricting this to DD uploads there is a severe limitation (i.e. users cannot 'contribute' screenshots) I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this. I say that is a good idea, but I'm not sure how screenshots.debian.org would help your friend. If you are talking about one-five screenshot per package (or per package version) that is hardly sufficient to explain how a package manager works. Better yet if someone wrote a package management document using DocBook and including screenshots and that was published in the website. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:05:03AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: Hi, this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google will know about it. Maybe the following? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00915.html It's not exactly the same idea. The proposer (Gonéri Le Bouder [0]) focused on what the layout and distribution of images [1] should be, but not on: - who provides the screenshots? how are they uploaded and validated? (is there an upload queue who manages all this automatically?) - is there a web interface to that information or it will just be used by package managers? The Alioth project was named 'apt-pixmap' [1] there has been no activity in its mailing list [2] and the original location of the proof of concept [3] does not exist any longer. So I guess the project did not spark enough attention. Some of the information in the project as well as the threads can be used to draft a new proposal, however. I think that something similar to backports.org (a service where both DDs and non-DDs could upload screenshots to) and provided a web interface to view screenshots by package version would be really cool. Regards Javier [0] Who, BTS is now the proud father of a little girl: http://orniere-du-globe.net/blog/?p=312 :-) [1] Based on Debian packages or TAR files so the user could download *all* the screenshots using a specific tool. Which, BTW, I don't think is a good idea. [2] http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-pixmap/ [3] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/apt-pixmap-repo [4] http://gloria.rulezlan.org/debian2/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
RE: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
--- Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this. We discussed that idea in the Debian Games Team some time ago, and we're very interested in it. At least for games, having screenshots is something very important. Greetings, Miry __ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 05:41:35PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: I'd be interested in knowing: * Would such an idea be feasible? Yes, it only requires somebody to code in the missing pieces (i.e. all of them) OK. Give me a couple of days :-) * What would be a good way to get started? (*) - Code in an upload queue implementing something akin to master (i.e. upload through anonymous ftp and put the screenshots in a pool, define a changes file format to describe which version is being screenshotted etc.) OK. I'd appreciate some help with this, or some pointers, or anything. This is probably the piece which I am least qualified to do. - Provide an HTML interface to the pool If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point to http://screenshots.debian.org/package_name and that's it. Good idea. I'd not though about it that way. We would then only need a default place holder for packages without screenshots. As far as getting started: * Would this need to start on debian.net? Probably, until a proof of concept is working and an official domain is provided. OK. Once I get something a little more concrete up and running, I'll see about getting a DNS entry in the debian.net zone file. * What would be the requirements/limitations/guidelines? Do you mean server requirements? I guess that it's disk and bandwidth. As for limitations, if you are restricting this to DD uploads there is a severe limitation (i.e. users cannot 'contribute' screenshots) What about my suggestion for user contributed screenshots via bug reports? The BTS accepts attachments to emails, so I think that would work. I would really appreciate any comments and suggestions on this. I say that is a good idea, but I'm not sure how screenshots.debian.org would help your friend. If you are talking about one-five screenshot per package (or per package version) that is hardly sufficient to explain how a package manager works. Better yet if someone wrote a package management document using DocBook and including screenshots and that was published in the website. Here is how it would help. He wants an email client and so he searches for one. The list includes icedove, sylpheed, mutt, kmail, evolution and others. They all have descriptions, but he can't visualize what they look like, especially not being familiar with them. Having screenshots available makes it so that he can compare them, at least based on how they look. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Maybe in the /debian package, there could be a package.png that is the screenshot and make them available in the mirrors (pool). maybe creating a file such as Packages.gz or an extension to it, informing that it has the screenshot available. then the user could access the pool ... or ... use some kind of client that uses the apt-get database to search for screenshots. For example, a simple gtk window with a combo box with the packages' names who has screenshots, and the user could: 1 - select the package 1.1 - application downloads it 2 - view in the application window 3 - full screen ( maybe using eog?) i think it is simple. Although ... the package will see it's source size increased and... 1 MB for 10% of debian's packages is +/- 2 Gb more of disk space in the mirrors. The screenshots can also use a similar process but use a package of their own. With the same process described, a package_0.3-1.dscr will have a bunch of screenshots of package. This package can be downloaded and untared for view, in the user's application. What do you think? Got lost?? Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:05:03AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: Hi, this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google will know about it. Maybe the following? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00915.html It's not exactly the same idea. The proposer (Gonéri Le Bouder [0]) focused on what the layout and distribution of images [1] should be, but not on: - who provides the screenshots? how are they uploaded and validated? (is there an upload queue who manages all this automatically?) - is there a web interface to that information or it will just be used by package managers? The Alioth project was named 'apt-pixmap' [1] there has been no activity in its mailing list [2] and the original location of the proof of concept [3] does not exist any longer. So I guess the project did not spark enough attention. Some of the information in the project as well as the threads can be used to draft a new proposal, however. I think that something similar to backports.org (a service where both DDs and non-DDs could upload screenshots to) and provided a web interface to view screenshots by package version would be really cool. Regards Javier [0] Who, BTS is now the proud father of a little girl: http://orniere-du-globe.net/blog/?p=312 :-) [1] Based on Debian packages or TAR files so the user could download *all* the screenshots using a specific tool. Which, BTW, I don't think is a good idea. [2] http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-pixmap/ [3] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/apt-pixmap-repo [4] http://gloria.rulezlan.org/debian2/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 08:46:40PM +, Luis Matos wrote: Maybe in the /debian package, there could be a package.png that is the screenshot and make them available in the mirrors (pool). maybe creating a file such as Packages.gz or an extension to it, informing that it has the screenshot available. This presents a few problems that I can see: - Bloat of package source or .diff.gz which would also require monkeying around with things like uuencode/uudecode (trust me, I've had to ship images in the debian/ directory before). - How would we handle miltuple screenshots? - Requiring a new package upload just for screenshots (If we want to allow user contributed screenshots, the updates to the screenshots really need to be able to happen independently of the package uploads. - Someone else aready suggested a way which not require any changes to the control file format (which would probably be necessary under your suggestion). then the user could access the pool ... or ... use some kind of client that uses the apt-get database to search for screenshots. I am guessing that due to the nature of screenshots, the most likely access method will be through some sort of package browser, like aptitude or synaptic. I'm not saying that others are not possible, just that I think that those are the most likely. For example, a simple gtk window with a combo box with the packages' names who has screenshots, and the user could: 1 - select the package 1.1 - application downloads it 2 - view in the application window 3 - full screen ( maybe using eog?) Does there exist a debian alternative for image-viewer or something similar? That would allow the user to use eog, kview or whatever other image viewing application they prefer. i think it is simple. Although ... the package will see it's source size increased and... 1 MB for 10% of debian's packages is +/- 2 Gb more of disk space in the mirrors. Yes. That is a concern, but I think that it is an excellent usability aid. I've installed lots of programs only to run them and see how ugly or unintuitive the UI looked to only immediately purge them. A few screenshots would have helped me make up my mind. The screenshots can also use a similar process but use a package of their own. With the same process described, a package_0.3-1.dscr will have a bunch of screenshots of package. I'm not sure this is a great idea. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Qui, 2007-01-04 às 16:49 -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez escreveu: - Requiring a new package upload just for screenshots (If we want to allow user contributed screenshots, the updates to the screenshots really need to be able to happen independently of the package uploads. I think the screenshot only package is a good option. The packages can be generated automatically from somewhere and uploaded to debian and target the same version as the package. The could be an web interface to help DD's to upload a gallery of images and select the ones to that version (for example changing package foo-0.3 to 0.3.1 will not change it's look, so, the DD goes to the web interface and ask to rebuild the package for the new version). i also think that user uploaded screenshots can be possible, but i desagree ... or ... their upload is accepted, but, the DD has to select the screenshot from the web interface's screenshot list. Then, from the mirror, with the application like synaptic, it can download the screenshot package with several screenshots and see. Always DD controled. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 05:41:35PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: - Provide an HTML interface to the pool If the packages names are the same I don't see the need to add yet another line to the debian/control file, packages.debian.org would just need to point to http://screenshots.debian.org/package_name and that's it. Good idea. I'd not though about it that way. We would then only need a default place holder for packages without screenshots. Another thing you may want to consider is to allow for redirects. e.g. if someone is looking for screenshots for, say, mozilla, then you can tell them to go to the iceape page instead. -- Hubert Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA http://www.uhoreg.ca/ Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7 5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Today I was trying to explain to a friend the concept of using a package management front end to search for and install packages. He liked the idea of descriptions, but found it hard to imagine what some programs looked like. It occurs to me that what is missing is screenshots. this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google will know about it. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpmMZTPILzeF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
Hi, * Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-01-03 23:53]: On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Today I was trying to explain to a friend the concept of using a package management front end to search for and install packages. He liked the idea of descriptions, but found it hard to imagine what some programs looked like. It occurs to me that what is missing is screenshots. this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google will know about it. Maybe the following? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00915.html Some replies are not in the thread. Kind regards Nico -- Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons, gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys! pgpJ7RWGAYkbD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: RFC: Proposal for official screenshot repo
On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:05:03AM +0100, Nico Golde wrote: Hi, * Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-01-03 23:53]: On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:32:52PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Today I was trying to explain to a friend the concept of using a package management front end to search for and install packages. He liked the idea of descriptions, but found it hard to imagine what some programs looked like. It occurs to me that what is missing is screenshots. this idea has been discussed recently, I just can't remember when exactly though, I'd say in the late 6 monthes. Maybe you can grab some names of people that were involved in the first proposal there. It may have been proposed on -project rather than devel. But I suppose google will know about it. Maybe the following? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00915.html Some replies are not in the thread. Kind regards Nico yes, that was it, thanks. the following is on the next month archive, hence why those are missing :) http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/05/ that was older that what I thought btw :) -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpKSzgsVphxF.pgp Description: PGP signature
