Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Frank Küster wrote: http://christian-morgenstern.de/dcma/Der_Werwolf Try # apt-get install fortunes-de $ fortune -m Werwölfe to see even the plural version ... Hope this makes a funny end to this story Sadly not - after some Perl errors in the postinst Use of uninitialized value in list assignment at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Element/Gnome/Multiselect.pm line 18, GEN1 line 2. Use of uninitialized value within @choices in hash element at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Element/Gnome/Multiselect.pm line 55, GEN1 line 2. I simply get nothing: $ fortune -m Werwölfe $ Is this a bug in your Mail or in the package? Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Debian Developer (TeXLive) ADFC Miltenberg B90/Grüne KV Miltenberg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Il giorno lun, 24/11/2008 alle 21.57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto: On Mon, Nov 24 2008, Amaya wrote: Eduard Bloch wrote: * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]: Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there is no need to polarize the discussion. Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do. s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point. It is far easier to dismiss things that offend _other_ people. There's difference between the intent to offend and a parody. As I said before good sense of humour means to be able to laugh especially when the topic of the parody would usually offend yourself. Btw, that's why I didn't felt offended by your insults. They were written to show a point (even if they _missed_ the point :D) not to really insult me. (And yes, I had a good laugh at them..) Have fun, federico -- Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED] INIT.D Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. -- Granny Weatherwax signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Christian Perrier wrote: Has the d-d-a ban been lifted? There currently isn't a ban in place.[1] [EMAIL PROTECTED] will likely be communicating privately with the individual(s) involved once we have come to consensus ourselves.[2] If some sort of punitive action is taken, [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be notified to allow DDs the opportunity to override [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don Armstrong 1: Thankfully, it hasn't been required yet 2: Which is currently in progress -- If you wish to strive for peace of soul, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire. -- Friedrich Nietzsche http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:41:13PM +0100, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 15.17 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto: On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is. hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron. Mm.. sincerely from someone of your flaming fame I expected something better. I'll make it do. :D Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Tuesday 25 November 2008 19:03, Federico Di Gregorio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's difference between the intent to offend and a parody. http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html To avoid any confusion, Josselin has written the above post to make it clear that he did intend to offend. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Russell Coker wrote: To avoid any confusion, Josselin has written the above post to make it clear that he did intend to offend. Joss sended an excuse and you just posted this link. Others asked for stopping this thread and asked for going back fixing bugs. Would you please stop lighting the fire? Thanks Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
* Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-25 00:21]: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Christian Perrier wrote: Has the d-d-a ban been lifted? There currently isn't a ban in place.[1] [...] 1: Thankfully, it hasn't been required yet I am confused: * Steve McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-24 01:16]: Michael Banck wrote: Joss did not hurt my feelings, but he did hurt the project's outside appearance (which for most outsiders is defined as at least whatever gets posted to -news, -anounce and -devel-announce, like it or not) by making us look like jerks or sexists and whatnot. And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from posting to d-d-a. Where is the truth? -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Rafael Laboissiere [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1: Thankfully, it hasn't been required yet I am confused: it might be a small misunderstanding. 'Required' is not the same as 'requested' in English (though they are in some latin languages). Steve McIntyre has requested the ban; but it has not been required yet (shown to be needed). Apologies if you knew this already and I misunderstood your email :-) cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
There currently isn't a ban in place.[1] [...] 1: Thankfully, it hasn't been required yet I am confused: And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from posting to d-d-a. Where is the truth? The truth is that you cant read or parse english. :) I've asked is not I told them and they immediately did. -- bye, Joerg With a name like TikiWiki, it seems only appropriate that if you do get co-maintainers, you should request teletubbies.alioth.debian.org. -- Steve Langasek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
* Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-25 12:12]: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Rafael Laboissiere [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1: Thankfully, it hasn't been required yet I am confused: it might be a small misunderstanding. 'Required' is not the same as 'requested' in English (though they are in some latin languages). Steve McIntyre has requested the ban; but it has not been required yet (shown to be needed). Thanks for the explanation and sorry for the noise. -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ban [Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount]
Quoting Don Armstrong ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Christian Perrier wrote: Has the d-d-a ban been lifted? There currently isn't a ban in place.[1] [EMAIL PROTECTED] will likely be communicating privately with the individual(s) involved once we have come to consensus ourselves.[2] If some sort of punitive action is taken, [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be notified to allow DDs the opportunity to override [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Don, for the clear answer. Apparently, /me asking was still useful as I wasn't the only person with English parsing problems on that matter. Going back on Steve's mail makes it clear that the ban was just asked and not put in placebut it is also clear that the misinterpretation was still possible... And, of course, sorry for assuming that listmasters would take a punitive action without informing the right body (in that case, d-private). signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, I could have also felt Joss' message as a personal attack on my and my family... Wolf? Werewolf? Family? No way. For those who understand German, here's why not: http://christian-morgenstern.de/dcma/Der_Werwolf The same works in English too, as I've just learned, but then it's not a WERwolf, but a banSHEE (the second english version). Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Debian Developer (TeXLive) ADFC Miltenberg B90/Grüne KV Miltenberg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Frank Küster wrote: http://christian-morgenstern.de/dcma/Der_Werwolf Try # apt-get install fortunes-de $ fortune -m Werwölfe to see even the plural version ... Hope this makes a funny end to this story Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
* Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-23 22:07]: Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist. Well, I found the parody very offensive to men, in general. Josselin's satire suggests that a male is a stupid creature who desperately looks for chicks or whichever his fantasy about females is. A male acts like a vampire and thinks that perfumes (or pheromones) would attract females to him. The joke could be funny because it makes one think about how ridicule males are, in general. Even though this is probably true for the huge majority of men out there, I am pretty sure it does not apply to the average male Debian developer. So, I urge public excuses from Josselin! At any rate, given the precedent with Andrew Suffield and the kissing lesbians, sending the joke to d-d-a was certainly a faux-pas. [Let us see how the politically-correct people will react to the irony above. I hate putting smiles in my messages, but here we go :-)] -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:01:32AM +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: * Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-23 22:07]: Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist. Well, I found the parody very offensive to men, in general. Heh, heh. Parody, satire, and pastiche humour are designed to take a view point, such as racism or sexism, an activity, such as golf or football, or something else such as advertising standards, and exaggerate it to the point of ridicule. We are meant to point at this stuff and say oh my, how inappropriate this would be! thank goodness this is humour and then laugh a little. An intelligently crafted parody of racism is funny precisely because racism is horrible and the joke is poking fun at the people who are genuinely racist. To proclaim that it is racist is to entirely, and horrendously, miss the point. The same thing goes for sexism, political policies, sports, news, c At any rate, given the precedent with Andrew Suffield and the kissing lesbians, sending the joke to d-d-a was certainly a faux-pas. Absolutely. Parody carries with it the unfortunate consequence of misunderstanding. When this happens, people are generally offended. This type of humour should not have been sent to a place where people could have misunderstood it and I think we can all agree on that point. Can we please just leave it at that though, instead of perpetuating a terrible misunderstanding of the mechanics involved in parody and satire. The email wasn't sexist, but it was inappropriate. Slapped wrists, c. Best, -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
* Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-24 08:47]: We are meant to point at this stuff and say oh my, how inappropriate this would be! thank goodness this is humour and then laugh a little. [...] Can we please just leave it at that though, instead of perpetuating a terrible misunderstanding of the mechanics involved in parody and satire. I can only agree 100% with you. Hey, people, stop becoming unnecessarily nervous with SmellyWerewolf.com. Take a breath, laugh a little, delete Josselin's message, and go back to closing RC bugs. Aren't we going to release lenny soon, BTW? -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Monday 24 November 2008 07:38, Russ Allbery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not about whether or not the parody was funny. It's that the same parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely gratuitous sexism. We should note that it had already been determined that debian-devel-announce is not a suitable forum for posting jokes. Josselin's post seems deliberately written to evoke the same reaction as the last time a seriously off-topic message was posted to d-d-a. http://np237.livejournal.com/17716.html The above deliberately offensive blog post by Josselin was created in response to my suggestion that jokes about raping children (regardless of whether they are religious figures or not) are not funny and not appropriate for Planet Debian. I believe that this is evidence that his post to d-d-a was not a mistake, but is part of a pattern of behaviour. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 03:51:07PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual objectification of women, which is patently absurd. No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward being offered to customers. It seems like a reasonable pastiche of many spams I've received. I don't think it should be assumed to express sexism on Joss's part. The problem I have with it is that it is protesting perceived misuse of d-d-a with deliberate misuse of d-d-a. Such hypocrisy is not very constructive. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Any smoothly functioning technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Russ Allbery dijo [Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:38:14PM -0800]: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. It's not about whether or not the parody was funny. It's that the same parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely gratuitous sexism. In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line it is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if we all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to post jokes of any kind. _Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant to be taken seriously. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Hi again, Le dimanche 23 novembre 2008 à 17:59 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit : SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the procedure outlined below, you will pay according to Rate Eeencredible, which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you! I apologize for sending this email to d-d-a instead of -devel. It could have conveyed the same message without abusing the project resources. Cheers, -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:04:18AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line it is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if we all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to post jokes of any kind. _Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant to be taken seriously. AOL, it's also my view. Or, to be more clear (which is mandatory in cases where people can feel discriminated), Joss made a parody of advertisements which are usually written in the tone and with the wording he used. He just copied style and words for the sake of the joke. Think about an impersonator [1] (wikipedia link because I've just discovered the English word): it is fun only when the impersonator stresses the characteristic of who is being impersonated. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impersonator If you agree with this interpretation, it is not even worth to discuss whether the message was sexiest or not, because content and style are inherited from elsewhere. That notwithstanding Joss abused d-d-a, that's undeniable. He could have obtained the very same result blogging on planet.d.o or posting to -devel. At least the latter two mediums are seen as less official by our public. As I was positively surprised by that, I have to kudo Joss for his acknowledgment and apologies about the mistake [2]; it doesn't revert the fact, but is something rare enough in Debian to be worth pointing out. [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00533.html So ... it is settled now, right? :-) Can we go back and release? :-) Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 [EMAIL PROTECTED],pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual objectification of women, which is patently absurd. No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward being offered to customers. Undead customers, that is to say. Have fun, Frank -- Frank Küster Debian Developer (TeXLive) ADFC Miltenberg B90/Grüne KV Miltenberg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Frank Küster dijo [Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:11:14PM +0100]: - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual objectification of women, which is patently absurd. No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward being offered to customers. Undead customers, that is to say. Hmh, cannot resist... Would it be sexist to think that (in this case) women might be legitimately objectified by undead citizens? No evidence shows this is a discriminatory behaviour, as we males would probably also be objectified (braiinz!), but adequate advertising would be needed to cater for us male living humans to be attracted... Food for thought... (well, that's my definition of brains anyway). BTW, I could have also felt Joss' message as a personal attack on my and my family... -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:04:18AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: In my opinion, which is as humble as it can be (but that might not mean much), I fail to see Joss' post as sexist. From its first line it is a parody, something that very clearly should not be taken seriously. Not that I like it - I'd really very very much prefer if we all took d-d-a as something serious, and not a proper place to post jokes of any kind. _Of course_ that Joss' post mentions sexist situations and points of view. But I don't think there is a single comma in his message meant to be taken seriously. AOL, it's also my view. Or, to be more clear (which is mandatory in cases where people can feel discriminated), Joss made a parody of advertisements which are usually written in the tone and with the wording he used. He just copied style and words for the sake of the joke. Think about an impersonator [1] (wikipedia link because I've just discovered the English word): it is fun only when the impersonator stresses the characteristic of who is being impersonated. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impersonator If you agree with this interpretation, it is not even worth to discuss whether the message was sexiest or not, because content and style are inherited from elsewhere. That notwithstanding Joss abused d-d-a, that's undeniable. He could have obtained the very same result blogging on planet.d.o or posting to -devel. At least the latter two mediums are seen as less official by our public. As I was positively surprised by that, I have to kudo Joss for his acknowledgment and apologies about the mistake [2]; it doesn't revert the fact, but is something rare enough in Debian to be worth pointing out. [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00533.html Very well written, I was just about to write exactly that. +1 Ondrej -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Eduard Bloch wrote: * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]: Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there is no need to polarize the discussion. Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do. s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point. -- ·''`. It's never too late to have a happy childhood : :' : `. `' `- Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24 2008, Amaya wrote: Eduard Bloch wrote: * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]: Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there is no need to polarize the discussion. Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do. s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point. It is far easier to dismiss things that offend _other_ people. manoj -- 卐 प्रवृत्ति निवृत्ति 卍 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
can you all please stop discussing this email? it is pointless On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Mon, Nov 24 2008, Amaya wrote: Eduard Bloch wrote: * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]: Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there is no need to polarize the discussion. Well, you can't simply ask people to not feel offended when they do. s/sexism/racism and everyone gets the point. It is far easier to dismiss things that offend _other_ people. manoj -- 卐 प्रवृत्ति निवृत्ति 卍 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Regards, Fabian Pucciarelli
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:13 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: - The use of the word chick in reference to females. Chick is a slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for a young woman. So linuxchix.org is a slightly derogatory, condescending domain name for young women involved in Linux? Or is this just an example of a gratuitous double-standard? When a term of derision, like chick is used to classify a group, it is hurtful and bigoted. But when a group embraces a term and uses it themselves, acknowledging that it is loaded with bigotry, in fact calling attention to that fact, it is a different thing. That is solely the prerogative of those who self-identify. I can think of a number of concrete examples, most obvious might be the term queer which some people use. In certain situations that term is used as an epithet of political empowerment. It may appear that it is a double standard, but it is rather a turning of the tables - taking away power from the bigot and claiming it for oneself. The double standard would be if they called other people derogatory names. Jeremiah -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Quoting Josselin Mouette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I apologize for sending this email to d-d-a instead of -devel. It could have conveyed the same message without abusing the project resources. Thanks for this, Joss...whatever one thinks of the content of your post, the two sentences above are very valuable in this thread. Has the d-d-a ban been lifted? I think that keeping it wouldn't be appropriate. As the fact that a ban had been put in place became public, it would be fair to make public that it has been lifted, if that happened. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. I'm sure I'm not alone. Steve -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Sure, the first message shouldn't have been on announce, but its impossible to fix a wrong with yet another wrong. Thanks, On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote: Hi SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the procedure outlined below, you will pay according to Rate Eeencredible, which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you! Steps to follow: - If you do not already own perfume bottle, buy one at your nearest convenience store. - If you are goth, transsexual, female or simply metrosexual, you also need to buy make-up at the same place. - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. - Wait for an OK reply and your new “good friends” will be delivered directly at home. If you don’t want the chicks, you should still buy the perfume and the make-up, cause you know, that can’t hurt, and in this time of economic crisis, the Lust industry needs your help. [1] http://malsain.org/SmellyWerewolf About SmellyWerewolf.com: Created in 1415 after the battle of Agincourt and purchased in 1802 by an experienced vampire who wanted to hide his horrible corpse smell, the Romanian company Smelly Werewolf delivers about 750,000 bottles of perfume for geeks in 198 countries around the works, which places the company around the leading make-up providers in Angola, and third in the World of Darkness. Today, Smelly Werewolf is considered as a strong point of reference among vampires and zombies. The company’s goal is to create an alternative and independent line of products destined to the undead. Smelly Werewolf is devoted to giving everyone enough blood for their needs, whether it is by allowing you to hide your corpse smell in birthday parties or by leading chicks directly to your home. In short, we enable people to claim new sex slaves for a very personal experience of professional quality. Our clients range from vampire individuals, packs of werewolves and small Elysiums to worldwide zombie attacks, and it’s something that you should be deeply afraid of. -- bye, the Committee for sexy developers --- Scott Dier [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. -- Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED] INIT.D Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Se si insegna a un bambino a programmare in qualche linguaggio informatico, questo esercizio logico lo renderà padrone e non schiavo del computer. -- Umberto Eco signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 05:32:12PM +, Steve Kemp wrote: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the presentation could have been in better taste. -- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 19:52:46 +0200, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the presentation could have been in better taste. Indeed, the original post was borderline and a rational reply would have been fine. A comedy-followup would have been less good, but still acceptable. The actual reply posted just didn't sit well with me, which is perhaps my problem, but with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step backward. Anyway I'm done now.. Steve -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. Please let's not have this discussion again. We already had a similar discussion once… http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/01/msg9.html and the -devel thread starting here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html People should understant that what is acceptable or not on -devel-announce varies with people and one shouldn't overreact when something doesn't please him. In today's case, Gandi is an (important) debconf sponsor and they are very free software fiendly in general. Also it's not very far from HP paying us the LWN subscriptions and the setup done by Joerg looks like inspired by this. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for people with just retrograde views (I did have a certain reputaion for flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started posting some of my more humourous put downs at you? manoj -- File cabinet: A four drawer, manually activated trash compactor. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
* Manoj Srivastava: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? At least since 1420 or so (Oswald von Wolkenstein, Durch Barbarei, Arabia). There are probably way older examples. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
2008/11/23 Amaya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Steve Kemp wrote: with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step backward. Same here +1 I'm very dissappointed with this, to be honest. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 13.57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto: On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for people with just retrograde views (I did have a ekcertain reputaion for flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started posting some of my more humourous put downs at you? Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is. -- Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED] INIT.D Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] The reverse side also has a reverse side. -- Japanese proverb signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Federico Di Gregorio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. It's not about whether or not the parody was funny. It's that the same parody could have been made, just as funny, without the completely gratuitous sexism. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Miriam Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm very dissappointed with this, to be honest. Agreed - devel-announce is for, um, project announcements. Not a jokes list. And with the large and varied group of users and developers Debian has, tact and tolerance are a good idea. Sexism is just one of many stupid-isms to avoid. When we talk about Debian as the universal OS, it's a good idea top pictura that intent extending to the human hardware and software it runs on. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Steve Kemp wrote: with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step backward. Same here -- ·''`. It's never too late to have a happy childhood : :' : `. `' `- Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically, were sexist or objectifying of women? Can you explain why? I am genuinely confused. Just as an advert for a men's perfume in real life would advertise that it attracted women to you, it is reasonable to assume that a parody of a perfume company would use the same advertising. Do you consider all perfume companies to be sexist? Even the perfume companies for women? Or is it the word chick that has upset people? If so, why? Is this any different from dude? Thanks, -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 05:52:46 +, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote: I found it generally hilarious and a well-made point, though I agree the presentation could have been in better taste. On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 08:23:02 +, Amaya wrote: Steve Kemp wrote: with debian-women making strides forward it seems this was a step backward. Same here On dim, nov 23, 2008 at 05:03:27 +, Scott Dier wrote: Sure, the first message shouldn't have been on announce, but its impossible to fix a wrong with yet another wrong. [and so on] FWIW we had this discussion already: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a, what else ? COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ? -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpNOjICoZZzS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 22:17:44 +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: FWIW we had this discussion already: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a, what else ? COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ? If sexism keeps being repeated then I will continue to complain. Or quit. Firmware, etc, is unrelated. No need for all caps. Steve -- Debian GNU/Linux System Administration http://www.debian-administration.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is. hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron. manoj ha ha -- Political T.V. commercials prove one thing: some candidates can tell all their good points and qualifications in just 30 seconds. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Florian Weimer wrote: * Manoj Srivastava: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? At least since 1420 or so (Oswald von Wolkenstein, Durch Barbarei, Arabia). There are probably way older examples. Yes, the same time period that brought us the inquisition. You must really think that Bush was actually doing god's work in gitmo, based on where you think definitions of right and wrong come from. manoj -- Be open to other people -- they may enrich your dream. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
2008/11/23 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically, were sexist or objectifying of women? Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after all. Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 15.17 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto: On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is. hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron. Mm.. sincerely from someone of your flaming fame I expected something better. I'll make it do. :D federico -- Federico Di Gregorio http://people.initd.org/fog Debian GNU/Linux Developer[EMAIL PROTECTED] INIT.D Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] In some countries (e.g., Germany) even many brands of toilet paper have format A6. [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html] signature.asc Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio firmata digitalmente
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
WTF? 2008/11/23 Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the procedure outlined below, you will pay according to Rate Eeencredible, which at the time of this writing means 20% more chicks loving you! Steps to follow: - If you do not already own perfume bottle, buy one at your nearest convenience store. - If you are goth, transsexual, female or simply metrosexual, you also need to buy make-up at the same place. - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. - Wait for an OK reply and your new good friends will be delivered directly at home. If you don't want the chicks, you should still buy the perfume and the make-up, cause you know, that can't hurt, and in this time of economic crisis, the Lust industry needs your help. [1] http://malsain.org/SmellyWerewolf About SmellyWerewolf.com: Created in 1415 after the battle of Agincourt and purchased in 1802 by an experienced vampire who wanted to hide his horrible corpse smell, the Romanian company Smelly Werewolf delivers about 750,000 bottles of perfume for geeks in 198 countries around the works, which places the company around the leading make-up providers in Angola, and third in the World of Darkness. Today, Smelly Werewolf is considered as a strong point of reference among vampires and zombies. The company's goal is to create an alternative and independent line of products destined to the undead. Smelly Werewolf is devoted to giving everyone enough blood for their needs, whether it is by allowing you to hide your corpse smell in birthday parties or by leading chicks directly to your home. In short, we enable people to claim new sex slaves for a very personal experience of professional quality. Our clients range from vampire individuals, packs of werewolves and small Elysiums to worldwide zombie attacks, and it's something that you should be deeply afraid of. -- bye, the Committee for sexy developers
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:35:10PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: 2008/11/23 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically, were sexist or objectifying of women? Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after all. Yes, very serious, and not trolling. Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist. Note, I am not saying it is not sexist, only that I can't see it. If you show something to me that I have overlooked I am more than likely to say aah, I see now, but I genuinely don't see what the problem is. Was it the language used? If so, how? The allusions made? If so, what allusions? The use of perfume or the implication that Debian developers are male? If so, can you explain a little? -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Noah Slater wrote: You are missing context. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 03:17:09PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 13.57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava ha scritto: On Sun, Nov 23 2008, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: Il giorno dom, 23/11/2008 alle 17.32 +, Steve Kemp ha scritto: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 17:59:13 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: - Send your private Debian GPG Key to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Include the brand of your perfume and the color of the make-up. I find it disappointing to see this posted, and in bad taste. /me guesses from when having sense of humor evicted started to be a requisite for being a Debian developer. Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, I have certain wildly humorous put downs designed specifically for people with just retrograde views (I did have a ekcertain reputaion for flaming once upon a time). Would you also find it funny if I started posting some of my more humourous put downs at you? Yes (I'd find it funny). That's what humour is. hen you are a retrograde, beetle browed moron. Ah, the discussion has descended into name calling! Superb! No, the email is making a point. The point was, that most people doi not see put downs designed specifically for people with just retrograde views as funny -- and thank you indeed for being a straight man for my punch line. This goes to people who think that sexist comments and put downs are funny -- the audience at large does not seem to think so. If you want further proof, just wait and see how many people flame me for demonstrating how the obnoxious comments are funny crowd is not anywhere close to a a significant segment of the list membership. manoj -- Talk of revolution is one way of avoiding reality. -- John Kenneth Galbraith Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
2008/11/23 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:35:10PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: 2008/11/23 Noah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Since when have sexist remarks come under being humour? If you think locker room conversations and objectification of women are funny, Maybe I'm missing something. Which parts of the original email, specifically, were sexist or objectifying of women? Are you serious in this? I thought we had already overcome that, but if you really mean it and it's not just trolling, we can start explaining it all again from the beginning, maybe it's needed after all. Yes, very serious, and not trolling. Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist. Sexism defines the ideology of male supremacy, of male superiority and of beliefs that support and sustain it. Sexism and patriarchy mutually reinforce one another http://www.ruralwomyn.net/define.html#sexism A social relationship in which males have authority over females. www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm Sexism: An ideology that assumes a hierarchy of human worth based on the social construction of gender difference Sexism was developed to claim superiority of men over women, based on the idea that natural gender norms are a fixed and immutable reality. http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html#s Sexism describes discrimination against someone on the grounds of their gender. http://www.equality-ne.co.uk/resources/glossary.html?letter=S Androcentrism – Male centeredness, which is the value set of our dominant culture based on male norms. Any account which characterizes aspects of women's lives as deviant is androcentric. http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm androcentrism: An ideological focus on males and men, and issues affecting them, possibly to the detriment of non-males. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/androcentrism Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes, here you find: - The use of the word chick in reference to females. Chick is a slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for a young woman. I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any case it refers to a hot or cute female. - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the mailing list, stating male as the norm there. Androcentrism. Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (23/11/2008): Could we f*ing stop repeating the same old discussions over and over and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a, what else ? COULD WE PLEASE F*ING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ? You may want not to use some derivatives of the F-word in a sex-related discussion. Should I precise it's being said on a tongue-in-chick tone? :) Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Miriam Ruiz writes: Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes, here you find: - The use of the word chick in reference to females. Chick is a slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for a young woman. I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any case it refers to a hot or cute female. - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the mailing list, stating male as the norm there. Androcentrism. Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. When do we get to the self-righteous outrage about the net-hosting-user-centric view perpetuated by the hosting discount email? If we do not expect to have that, why is this -- rather tenuous -- alleged sexism so different? I say rather tenuous because males are a marked minority in the market for the products mentioned in the satire, so it's hard for me to understand how it constitutes androcentrism. Your entire hypothesis on why the satire was sexist, in fact, is explicitly heteronormative. Aren't you concerned about offending non-straight members of the Debian community? Michael Poole -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 09:26:48PM +, Steve Kemp wrote: On Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 22:17:44 +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: FWIW we had this discussion already: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00920.html Could we fucking stop repeating the same old discussions over and over and over ? every two year we troll about firmwares, bad jokes on d-d-a, what else ? COULD WE PLEASE FUCKING LEARN FROM OUR PAST PLEASE ? If sexism keeps being repeated then I will continue to complain. I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went nowhere last time. I'm generally annoyed with the Nietzsche syndrome the Project is having. Okay, life is about perpetual resumption, but we _really_ have a too low characteristic time for it, and it annoys the crap out of me. Or quit. And, I'll hold my breath until nobody on earth will dare to tell a sexist joke again ! -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpqDGKXU5Lfb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
#include hallo.h * Josselin Mouette [Sun, Nov 23 2008, 05:59:13PM]: Hi SmellyWerewolf.com are kindly offering every Debian Developer a discount on their whole perfumes and make-up catalog[1]. If you apply under the Dude, a good job! For a split second I though Andrew was back and I had to reread the mail header a few times. ROTFLMAO, Eduard. -- ij Madkiss: Niemand kann so die Nachrichten mehr aufbereiten, dass Otto-Normal-Bürger die versteht, da dieser viel zu dämlich dafür ist. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
#include hallo.h * Miriam Ruiz [Mon, Nov 24 2008, 12:07:53AM]: Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes, here you find: Show me the law or the SC part saying that jokes have to be serious. - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the mailing list, stating male as the norm there. Androcentrism. Sorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their chicks. Come on, peace! I respect you as woman or man or whoever you are, there is no need to polarize the discussion. Regards, Eduard. -- Karat3 wie führt man noch mal ein shellscript aus? Ganneff ausdrucken, einstecken, zum italiener gehen, auf nen stuhl legen alphascorpii ... und sag ihm ein paar nette Sachen, das mögen sie -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:18:14AM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went nowhere last time. Joss did not hurt my feelings, but he did hurt the project's outside appearance (which for most outsiders is defined as at least whatever gets posted to -news, -anounce and -devel-announce, like it or not) by making us look like jerks or sexists and whatnot. Michael PS: Besides, I was under the impression that the social pressure Andrew faced after his d-d-a faux pas was partly responsible for his resignation, so there would have been some sort of outcome indeed, but maybe I am misremembering. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
Michael Banck wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:18:14AM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I just don't care. We had the very same discussion 2 years ago. Nothing good came out of it, nothing will this time either. I see no point in trolling on -devel@ on the subject. Just answer privately to Joss if he hurt your feelings, but this thread will go nowhere, like it went nowhere last time. Joss did not hurt my feelings, but he did hurt the project's outside appearance (which for most outsiders is defined as at least whatever gets posted to -news, -anounce and -devel-announce, like it or not) by making us look like jerks or sexists and whatnot. And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from posting to d-d-a. Let's stop the discussion now, please. I'm sure we've all got better things to do with our time. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] You lock the door And throw away the key There's someone in my head but it's not me -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008, Steve McIntyre wrote: And because of that I've asked the listmasters to block him from posting to d-d-a. Let's stop the discussion now, please. I'm sure we've all got better things to do with our time. Community, Identity, Stability. Brave New World, -- Adnène -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about lesbians reloaded (Was: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount)
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 01:42:08AM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: PS: Besides, I was under the impression that the social pressure Andrew faced after his d-d-a faux pas was partly responsible for his resignation, so there would have been some sort of outcome indeed, but maybe I am misremembering. On the contrary, he posted to d-d-a with full intention to leave the project afterwards... -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: Apart from the fact that d-d-a is not a list for making stupid jokes, here you find: - The use of the word chick in reference to females. Chick is a slightly derogatory, condescending common usage (slang) expression for a young woman. So linuxchix.org is a slightly derogatory, condescending domain name for young women involved in Linux? Or is this just an example of a gratuitous double-standard? I know that there's an open discussion on this, in any case it refers to a hot or cute female. - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual objectification of women, which is patently absurd. - It is obviously openly ignoring the existence of females in the mailing list, stating male as the norm there. Androcentrism. Stating if you are [...] female is ignoring the existence of females? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When do we get to the self-righteous outrage about the net-hosting-user-centric view perpetuated by the hosting discount email? If we do not expect to have that, why is this -- rather tenuous -- alleged sexism so different? The net-hosting message I wasn't interested in, but I didn't find it offensive. I found the sexist follow-up joke offensive, so I said something about that. That's normally how this works. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote: - The only mention women get in the text is thus through a sexual objetification. This amounts to concluding that any mention of sexuality is sexual objectification of women, which is patently absurd. No, the claim isn't that broad. The message specifically discusses women as objects: it promises they will be “delivered directly at home”, and the entire message discusses women as some kind of reward being offered to customers. -- \ “Holy tintinnabulation, Batman!” —Robin | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SmellyWerewolf.com perfume make-up discount
On 2008-11-23, Miriam Ruiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please quote from the original email explaining to me how it is sexist. Sexism defines the ideology of male supremacy, of male superiority and of beliefs that support and sustain it. Sexism and patriarchy mutually reinforce one another http://www.ruralwomyn.net/define.html#sexism A social relationship in which males have authority over females. www.personal.utulsa.edu/~lara-foley/definitions.htm Sexism: An ideology that assumes a hierarchy of human worth based on the social construction of gender difference Sexism was developed to claim superiority of men over women, based on the idea that natural gender norms are a fixed and immutable reality. http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html#s Isn't these definitions quite gynocentric and androphobic? /Sune - who is learning new words today. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
