Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Boyuan Yang]

[Dropping debian-devel-announce: please don't reply to the -announce maillist]

‪‫أحمد المحمودي‬‎  于2018年6月11日周一 下午10:48写道：‬
>
> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 11:45:37AM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > Collab-maint
> > 
> >
> > If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> > software, you can create projects within the
> > **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects 
> > created in this group.
> > If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly 
> > welcoming all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
> >
> > Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> > but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> > collab-maint group on Alioth.
> ---end quoted text---
>
> I am not a DD, anf I was working on some  projects under collab-maint on
> Alioth. Should I create those projects (that weren't migrated) under
> **Debian** group (which I cannot find on salsa btw), or should I create
> those projects under my own namespace ?

Ideally you should find some DDs and work with them to set up those
projects (that was under collab-maint group before)
under Salsa's Debian group [1].

If you are among one of package's contributors, please ask a DD for
help to grant you the write access for the corresponding
repository. You may request a Master role or a Developer role,
depending on how involved you are for this package.

If you don't want to retrieve such permission and only (e.g., you are
only an occasional contributor), you may still open a
Merge Request and ask another one who have the permission to accept
merges (often the package maintainers but other
DDs have such right too) to accept  that Merge Request.

Setting up a repository under the namespace of yourself is possible
and acceptable; however, that approach might not be
recommended since by default no one else (even DDs) may modify this
repo, which brings negative effect when doing
collaborative maintenance.

--
Regards,
Boyuan Yang

[1] https://salsa.debian.org/debian/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, أحمد المحمودي wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 11:45:37AM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > Collab-maint
> > 
> > 
> > If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> > software, you can create projects within the
> > **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects 
> > created in this group.
> > If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly 
> > welcoming all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
> > 
> > Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> > but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> > collab-maint group on Alioth.
> ---end quoted text---
> 
> I am not a DD, anf I was working on some  projects under collab-maint on 
> Alioth. Should I create those projects (that weren't migrated) under 
> **Debian** group (which I cannot find on salsa btw), or should I create 
> those projects under my own namespace ?
Look harder: https://salsa.debian.org/debian

And you can do whatever you like more. 

Alex




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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[أحمد المحمودي]

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 11:45:37AM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> Collab-maint
> 
> 
> If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> software, you can create projects within the
> **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects created 
> in this group.
> If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly welcoming 
> all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
> 
> Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> collab-maint group on Alioth.
---end quoted text---

I am not a DD, anf I was working on some  projects under collab-maint on 
Alioth. Should I create those projects (that weren't migrated) under 
**Debian** group (which I cannot find on salsa btw), or should I create 
those projects under my own namespace ?

-- 
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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hello,

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
> For example, have a look at the following packages:
> - https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/siridb-server
> - https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libcleri
> 
> The maintainer box is not even shown. I guess this might be a bug to file
> against tracker.debian.org.

So Pierre-Elliot Bécue investigated this and it's unrelated to the
maintainer field. It's because the packages have a Vcs-Browser field
but not the associated Vcs-Git entry which was not really expected by the
codebase.

> I think that realistic proposals should build upon the notion of teams in
> tracker.d.o or in gitlab (or both?). Both tools have a notion of a "team"
> or a "group" and could provide an email alias for member subscribed or
> member of those groups. I believe this would address the need of most teams,
> to have a single point of contact. Such aliases would help us to avoid bug
> notifications and alike on discussion MLs.

Indeed. 

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Support Debian LTS: https://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html
Learn to master Debian: https://debian-handbook.info/get/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hello,

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 01:01:15PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > I agree. I have plans to create email addresses like
> > team+@tracker.debian.org that could be used for this purpose.
> > The package tracker would automatically add those packages to the
> > respective team.
> 
> Sounds much better, yeah.
[...]
> So please give me something that I can stick into the maintainer field to
> have as many tools as possible DTRT.

As a first step, I have implemented team+@tracker.debian.org as
a black hole (i.e. incoming emails are dropped):
https://salsa.debian.org/qa/distro-tracker/commit/bf4706f53b4fff7c102d1355b4af72553bc96500

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 7:01 AM, Raphael Hertzog  wrote:
> > We could then expand the use of this email address also for discussion
> > between team members.
> 
> If it looks like an email address, I think people will expect to be
> able to email it without having to join a team first. Or at least I
> think people would expect a reject message explaining what to do for
> the email to be delivered. (Maybe that's what you meant, but it wasn't
> clear to me.)

Yes, it should be usable by everybody, and not restricted to team members.

But to avoid spam, we will probably have to implement a whitelist of some
sort.

Another open question is who should get the mails sent to that address.

Currently mails should probably be sent to all team members who have not muted 
the
team and who have not disabled the "contact" keyword. But this makes it
hard to subscribe to a very large team to get the team-level messages but
not the package-level messages.

We should really have different subscriptions models:
- team emails only
- team emails and all package emails
- team emails, all package emails except for (blacklist)
- team emails, no package emails except for (whitelist)

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Support Debian LTS: https://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html
Learn to master Debian: https://debian-handbook.info/get/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 7:01 AM, Raphael Hertzog  wrote:
> I agree. I have plans to create email addresses like
> team+@tracker.debian.org that could be used for this purpose.
> The package tracker would automatically add those packages to the
> respective team.
>
> We could then expand the use of this email address also for discussion
> between team members.

If it looks like an email address, I think people will expect to be
able to email it without having to join a team first. Or at least I
think people would expect a reject message explaining what to do for
the email to be delivered. (Maybe that's what you meant, but it wasn't
clear to me.)

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 01:01:15PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:38:11AM -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Ole Streicher  wrote:
> > > > Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
> > > > maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
> > > > (which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
> > > > this address is gone, we would need an alternative.
> > > 
> > > Someone just has to add the packages to the team list. It's a one-time
> > > maintenance cost that in my opinion takes very little time. I don't
> > > think it's a scalability problem at all. Surely, someone can spend a
> > > few seconds per package.…
> > 
> > On the other hand, this is something that will notoriously get forgotten.
> > Thus, some automation would be needed, otherwise it'll quicky go out of sync
> > badly.
> 
> I agree. I have plans to create email addresses like
> team+@tracker.debian.org that could be used for this purpose.
> The package tracker would automatically add those packages to the
> respective team.

Sounds much better, yeah.

Having one package have
Debian Desktop Theme Team 
and another
Debian Desktop Theme Team 
gives them different maintainer address; too many people consider the mail
address authoritative and text before it just a variable piece of junk
they ignore.

So please give me something that I can stick into the maintainer field to
have as many tools as possible DTRT.

> We could then expand the use of this email address also for discussion
> between team members.

Wouldn't hurt, yeah.


Meow!
-- 
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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:38:11AM -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Ole Streicher  wrote:
> > > Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
> > > maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
> > > (which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
> > > this address is gone, we would need an alternative.
> > 
> > Someone just has to add the packages to the team list. It's a one-time
> > maintenance cost that in my opinion takes very little time. I don't
> > think it's a scalability problem at all. Surely, someone can spend a
> > few seconds per package.…
> 
> On the other hand, this is something that will notoriously get forgotten.
> Thus, some automation would be needed, otherwise it'll quicky go out of sync
> badly.

I agree. I have plans to create email addresses like
team+@tracker.debian.org that could be used for this purpose.
The package tracker would automatically add those packages to the
respective team.

We could then expand the use of this email address also for discussion
between team members.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Support Debian LTS: https://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html
Learn to master Debian: https://debian-handbook.info/get/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hello,

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Boyuan Yang wrote:
> 在 2017年12月26日星期二 CST 下午9:48:50，Mattia Rizzolo 写道：
> > On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
> > > that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
> > > rejects on ftpmaster.
> > 
> > That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
> > Maintainer field.
> 
> Excuse me, but should it be $pack...@packages.debian.org or 
> $pack...@tracker.debian.org? I'm in serious doubt about current status of 
> packages.debian.org infrastructure.

$sou...@packages.debian.org forwards to the package tracker and can be
used. $sou...@tracker.debian.org does not exist. The package tracker
incoming emails are received at dispa...@tracker.debian.org (or
dispatch+_@tracker.debian.org when the mail doesn't
contain anything that can be used to properly identify it).

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Support Debian LTS: https://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html
Learn to master Debian: https://debian-handbook.info/get/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marc Haber]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 18:54:22 +0100, Raphael Hertzog
 wrote:
>That said while it is possible to use @packages.debian.org email
>addresses in Maintainer fields it hat not been "validated" yet and you
>will likely see multiple problems. Some of them have been identified
>already (see Mehdi's mail in this thread) but I expect more of them to
>show up (in particular duplicate mails and misclassified mails). IOW,
>further work is needed here.

I have provided two of my minor packages (sipcalc and atop) as guinea
pigs and have uploaded one with the dispatch+package_contact@t.d.o and
one with the package@p.d.o as maintainer address.

Feel free to (subscribe) and play.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
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Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 14:48:50 +0100, Mattia Rizzolo 
> wrote:
> >On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> >> The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
> >> that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
> >> rejects on ftpmaster.
> >
> >That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
> >Maintainer field.
> 
> Where does that one forward to? To dispatch+$package_contact@t.d.o?

Yes. But the "contact" keyword will be overriden when you get mails that
can be classified more precisely (like DAK or BTS mails).

That said while it is possible to use @packages.debian.org email
addresses in Maintainer fields it hat not been "validated" yet and you
will likely see multiple problems. Some of them have been identified
already (see Mehdi's mail in this thread) but I expect more of them to
show up (in particular duplicate mails and misclassified mails). IOW,
further work is needed here.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Support Debian LTS: https://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html
Learn to master Debian: https://debian-handbook.info/get/

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Mathias Behrle wrote:

> * Alexander Wirt: " Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going
>   into beta" (Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:04:59 +0100):
> 
> > On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 12:51:45PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> >  [...]  
> > > 
> > > OK, cool.
> > >   
> >  [...]  
> > > 
> > > I'm not suggesting you add "anything new". The anonscm.d.o name is
> > > useful enough to keep, and having it be redirected when needed would be
> > > nice.
> > > 
> > > I'm thinking this could be provided independently from running alioth.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)  
> > First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> Probably I am missing something or it is technically not possible, but anyway 
> I
> just want to describe a solution that could be quite simple if possible:
> 
> What about the idea to just direct all requests for anonscm.d.o to salsa and
> redirect to alioth, if the target is not found (i.e. the repository was not
> yet migrated)? Could this be done like described in [0] under "Search for 
> pages
> in more than one directory"?
> 
> [0] https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/rewrite/remapping.html
thats for local directories. There aren't condition for remote urls.

Alex
 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Paul Gevers]

Hi

On 31-12-17 06:56, Pirate Praveen wrote:
> On 12/30/2017 11:34 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
>>> Besides: Is it possible to send mail to
>>> 'desktop-themes-t...@tracker.debian.org'? Where does it get forwarded?
>>
>> No. Email sent to that address won't go to anybody.
> 
> Can't we allow people to subscribe to teams just like subscribing to
> individual packages?

One can do that already for a long time.

> That way, we can forward any mail to this address
> to all the people subscribed to it.

Apparently that doesn't imply this (yet).

Paul



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Pirate Praveen]

On 12/30/2017 11:34 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
>> Besides: Is it possible to send mail to
>> 'desktop-themes-t...@tracker.debian.org'? Where does it get forwarded?
> 
> No. Email sent to that address won't go to anybody.

Can't we allow people to subscribe to teams just like subscribing to
individual packages? That way, we can forward any mail to this address
to all the people subscribed to it.




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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Mathias Behrle]

* Alexander Wirt: " Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going
  into beta" (Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:04:59 +0100):

> On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 12:51:45PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
> > 
> > OK, cool.
> >   
>  [...]  
> > 
> > I'm not suggesting you add "anything new". The anonscm.d.o name is
> > useful enough to keep, and having it be redirected when needed would be
> > nice.
> > 
> > I'm thinking this could be provided independently from running alioth.
> > 
> > Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)  
> First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter
> 
> Alex

Probably I am missing something or it is technically not possible, but anyway I
just want to describe a solution that could be quite simple if possible:

What about the idea to just direct all requests for anonscm.d.o to salsa and
redirect to alioth, if the target is not found (i.e. the repository was not
yet migrated)? Could this be done like described in [0] under "Search for pages
in more than one directory"?

[0] https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/rewrite/remapping.html

-- 

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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Jonas Meurer  wrote:
> That's great indeed. Funny enough, tobi, me and some others discussed
> this very topic at the 34c3 Debian meeting and came up with the idea to
> add groups functionality to tracker.debian.org. It's awesome to learn
> that it already exists :)

Good. It could still use some development help.

Tracker does not recognize the pseuo-teams Maintainers like
https://tracker.debian.org/teams/debian-siridb-packaging-team/

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libcleri (Note that the entire General
section in the top left is missing).

> Besides: Is it possible to send mail to
> 'desktop-themes-t...@tracker.debian.org'? Where does it get forwarded?

No. Email sent to that address won't go to anybody.

> Giving a group email address whould here would have the advantage that
> our package overview web tools (packages, tracker, qa, ...) would link
> to the group page automatically, right?

Tracker currently needs someone to create the team but that takes a
few seconds. It can automatically keep the team up-to-date for all
packages that use the same Maintainer email address.

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jonas Meurer]

Am 27.12.2017 um 20:49 schrieb Jeremy Bicha:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Tobias Frost  wrote:
>> How can one easily retrieve a list of packages from a specific team,
> 
> The team can make a Tracker team and add their packages individually
> to the team like this:
> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/desktop-themes-team/

That's great indeed. Funny enough, tobi, me and some others discussed
this very topic at the 34c3 Debian meeting and came up with the idea to
add groups functionality to tracker.debian.org. It's awesome to learn
that it already exists :)

Is there a way to have a qa.debian.org overview over a tracker group?
The tracker group page looks quite empty, it doesn't provide any
overview about the packages themselves except their names.

Besides: Is it possible to send mail to
'desktop-themes-t...@tracker.debian.org'? Where does it get forwarded?
All addresses in uploaders fields of associated packages?

I still think we should have an way to state that a group is the actual
maintainer of the package *in* the Maintainer field of the package.

Giving a group email address whould here would have the advantage that
our package overview web tools (packages, tracker, qa, ...) would link
to the group page automatically, right?

>> or list all bugs in the scope of the team? (just as two example)
> 
> If a team stops using the BTS for bugs and just uses Salsa's Issues
> tracker, you can just go to a page like this (for the Salsa Team)
> https://salsa.debian.org/groups/salsa/-/issues

Phew, shall we really support that? I think we should stick to debbugs
as our single (public) bug tracker. It would be quite confusing if some
packages would use one bug tracker and others another one.

Cheers
 jonas



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 02:04:59PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter
> 
> That seems to generate a list of 'RewriteRule's directives.  May I
> recommend to instead use a RewriteMap? See
> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/rewrite/rewritemap.html - that allows
> for a huge number of rules and can scale up a lot without too much
> performance loss that would instead come with a large number of
> RewriteRules, especially when using the dbm format.
Yes you can, thats why its a draft. Migrating to some kind of dbm map is
already on my list.

Alex





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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> On Dec 30, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> 
> > > Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)
> > First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter
> Can you first apply some regexp-based mappings, like collab-maint to 
> Debian? This would automatically solve most cases.
No it wouldn't as migration to collab-maint is a manual process and that
would break a few thousand repos. 

Alex



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 30, Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> > Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)
> First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter
Can you first apply some regexp-based mappings, like collab-maint to 
Debian? This would automatically solve most cases.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Mattia Rizzolo]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 02:04:59PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter

That seems to generate a list of 'RewriteRule's directives.  May I
recommend to instead use a RewriteMap? See
https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/rewrite/rewritemap.html - that allows
for a huge number of rules and can scale up a lot without too much
performance loss that would instead come with a large number of
RewriteRules, especially when using the dbm format.

-- 
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo

GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
more about me:  https://mapreri.org : :'  :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 12:51:45PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:06:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > > > Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> > > > > intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> > > > > even this will be broken for no good reasons.
> > > > if you think so, you have now idea. 
> > > > Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed 
> > > > and
> > > > not yet migrated repos. 
> > > 
> > > Have a "redirect-url" file in the .git directory of the repository? That
> > > can then be used by the anonscm web configuration to send a proper 301
> > > response to the HTTP client. That way, nobody has to maintain a single
> > > map and individual developers can tell the infrastructure where the new
> > > repository lives.
> > > 
> > > For bonus points, make this be something that can still be added to
> > > after alioth is shut down/made read-only, so that the
> > > "anonscm.debian.org" permanent name can also be used for repositories
> > > that are newly created on salsa and never lived in alioth to begin with.
> > > 
> > > > Of course you are now one year to late. 
> > > 
> > > It is never too late for a fix of what is a seriously problematic issue.
> > > 
> > > I'm willing to look into the details of doing this if you're happy with
> > > the proposal.
> > I am almost done with the map thing.
> 
> OK, cool.
> 
> > And to be honest, alioth is slow enough.  I really don't want to add
> > anything new. 
> 
> I'm not suggesting you add "anything new". The anonscm.d.o name is
> useful enough to keep, and having it be redirected when needed would be
> nice.
> 
> I'm thinking this could be provided independently from running alioth.
> 
> Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)
First draft is on https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/AliothRewriter

Alex
 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 12:51:45PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:06:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > > On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > > Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> > > > intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> > > > even this will be broken for no good reasons.
> > > if you think so, you have now idea. 
> > > Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed 
> > > and
> > > not yet migrated repos. 
> > 
> > Have a "redirect-url" file in the .git directory of the repository? That
> > can then be used by the anonscm web configuration to send a proper 301
> > response to the HTTP client. That way, nobody has to maintain a single
> > map and individual developers can tell the infrastructure where the new
> > repository lives.
> > 
> > For bonus points, make this be something that can still be added to
> > after alioth is shut down/made read-only, so that the
> > "anonscm.debian.org" permanent name can also be used for repositories
> > that are newly created on salsa and never lived in alioth to begin with.
> > 
> > > Of course you are now one year to late. 
> > 
> > It is never too late for a fix of what is a seriously problematic issue.
> > 
> > I'm willing to look into the details of doing this if you're happy with
> > the proposal.
> I am almost done with the map thing.

OK, cool.

> And to be honest, alioth is slow enough.  I really don't want to add
> anything new. 

I'm not suggesting you add "anything new". The anonscm.d.o name is
useful enough to keep, and having it be redirected when needed would be
nice.

I'm thinking this could be provided independently from running alioth.

Anyway, looking forward to your map thing :-)

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:06:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > > Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> > > intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> > > even this will be broken for no good reasons.
> > if you think so, you have now idea. 
> > Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> > not yet migrated repos. 
> 
> Have a "redirect-url" file in the .git directory of the repository? That
> can then be used by the anonscm web configuration to send a proper 301
> response to the HTTP client. That way, nobody has to maintain a single
> map and individual developers can tell the infrastructure where the new
> repository lives.
> 
> For bonus points, make this be something that can still be added to
> after alioth is shut down/made read-only, so that the
> "anonscm.debian.org" permanent name can also be used for repositories
> that are newly created on salsa and never lived in alioth to begin with.
> 
> > Of course you are now one year to late. 
> 
> It is never too late for a fix of what is a seriously problematic issue.
> 
> I'm willing to look into the details of doing this if you're happy with
> the proposal.
I am almost done with the map thing. And to be honest, alioth is slow enough.
I really don't want to add anything new. 

Alex 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:06:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:
> > Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> > intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> > even this will be broken for no good reasons.
> if you think so, you have now idea. 
> Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> not yet migrated repos. 

Have a "redirect-url" file in the .git directory of the repository? That
can then be used by the anonscm web configuration to send a proper 301
response to the HTTP client. That way, nobody has to maintain a single
map and individual developers can tell the infrastructure where the new
repository lives.

For bonus points, make this be something that can still be added to
after alioth is shut down/made read-only, so that the
"anonscm.debian.org" permanent name can also be used for repositories
that are newly created on salsa and never lived in alioth to begin with.

> Of course you are now one year to late. 

It is never too late for a fix of what is a seriously problematic issue.

I'm willing to look into the details of doing this if you're happy with
the proposal.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Metzler]

Dr. Bas Wijnen  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:43:58PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Philipp Kern wrote:
>> > Put a mapping into a git repository that DDs can push to? Make sure that
>> > it is fast-forwarded always? Then let people deal with it?
>> I am currently working on such a mapping. 

> I appreciate your work, but this doesn't seem all that useful to me.  If DDs
> can push the mapping, can't they just as well upload a new package with the
> fields in the control file updated?

Compare:

a) uploading and building 400 packages.
b) checkout git repository
   copy list of old git repositories from tracker, search/replace
   commit and push

Thanmks Alexander!

cu Andreas
-- 
`What a good friend you are to him, Dr. Maturin. His other friends are
so grateful to you.'
`I sew his ears on from time to time, sure'

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Dr. Bas Wijnen]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:43:58PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > Put a mapping into a git repository that DDs can push to? Make sure that
> > it is fast-forwarded always? Then let people deal with it?
> I am currently working on such a mapping. 

I appreciate your work, but this doesn't seem all that useful to me.  If DDs
can push the mapping, can't they just as well upload a new package with the
fields in the control file updated?

Thanks,
Bas


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:43:58PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > Put a mapping into a git repository that DDs can push to? Make sure that
> > it is fast-forwarded always? Then let people deal with it?
> I am currently working on such a mapping. 

Thanks a lot

 Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Paul Wise]

On Fri, 2017-12-29 at 12:32 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:

> You are right. It is just not easy to solve this, because this
> information must be available on Debian systems. So it would be
> something in parallel to downloaded Packages files, right? And
> who generates this file(?) based on which information?

No. Since debtags are imported into Packages/Sources, it shouldn't be
hard to do the same as debtags for other Packages/Sources fields too.

I would guess it would also be possible to use values from packages for
most of them and then add overrides that would be used until the value
from the package changes.

For watch files there was the sepwatch alioth project, but that is no
longer used since watch file processing was moved to udd.

https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/HowToHelpWithFixingWatchFiles

The same approach could be used for other fields, a git repository
containing the overrides, which is imported by ftp-master and merged
into the package information, which is then exported to the archive. 

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Alexander Wirt wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 29, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> > 
> > > Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed 
> > > and
> > > not yet migrated repos. 
> > Ignore the renamed repositories: if somebody renamed them then they 
> > obviously expected to have to update the VCS URLs anyway.
> > Switch the anonscm name when alioth will be shut down: the people who 
> > have already migrated can keep pushing to the old repository as well to 
> > keep it in sync.
> > This is not perfect, but it is still better than having to update 
> > countless packages.
> > 
> > > Of course you are now one year to late. 
> > I do not think that it is our fault to find out just now that a major 
> > feature of alioth would be broken.
> All discussions and logs were public and we asked several times for
> discussion and help. But I am already working on some
> redirect map generator. 
And just following your proposal would still leave us with several thousand
broken packages (Debian vs. collab-maint, teams have different paths and so
on). It just won't work, the solution has to be more sophisticated.

Alex



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> On Dec 29, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> 
> > Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> > not yet migrated repos. 
> Ignore the renamed repositories: if somebody renamed them then they 
> obviously expected to have to update the VCS URLs anyway.
> Switch the anonscm name when alioth will be shut down: the people who 
> have already migrated can keep pushing to the old repository as well to 
> keep it in sync.
> This is not perfect, but it is still better than having to update 
> countless packages.
> 
> > Of course you are now one year to late. 
> I do not think that it is our fault to find out just now that a major 
> feature of alioth would be broken.
All discussions and logs were public and we asked several times for
discussion and help. But I am already working on some
redirect map generator. 

Alex



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Philipp Kern wrote:

> On 12/29/2017 12:51 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > On Dec 29, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> >> Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> >> not yet migrated repos. 
> > Ignore the renamed repositories: if somebody renamed them then they 
> > obviously expected to have to update the VCS URLs anyway.
> > Switch the anonscm name when alioth will be shut down: the people who 
> > have already migrated can keep pushing to the old repository as well to 
> > keep it in sync.
> > This is not perfect, but it is still better than having to update 
> > countless packages.
> 
> Put a mapping into a git repository that DDs can push to? Make sure that
> it is fast-forwarded always? Then let people deal with it?
I am currently working on such a mapping. 
> 
> Kind regards
> Philipp Kern
> 





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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ben Hutchings]

On Fri, 2017-12-29 at 12:32 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> On 2017-12-29 12:42, Paul Wise wrote:
> > This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> > before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> > the source package that can change independently of the source package
> > (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> > These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> > the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.
> 
> You are right. It is just not easy to solve this, because this
> information must be available on Debian systems. So it would be
> something in parallel to downloaded Packages files, right? And
> who generates this file(?) based on which information?

dak already maintains Section and Priority information ("override
file") and uses that information in the Packages file instead of what a
package's control file says.  I would hope that a similar approach
could be used for all the other fields that we may want to change
without an upload.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
I say we take off; nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be
sure.



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Antonio Terceiro]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 04:11:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 12/28/2017 02:33 AM, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo
> >  wrote:
> >> If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
> >> should be using instead.
> >>
> >> Any recommendation?
> > 
> > Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
> > your team maintains.
> > 
> > https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
> > 
> > Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> > notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> > https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> > keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> > or teams.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Jeremy Bicha
> 
> Nice idea, but it doesn't scale. Am I suppose to add all of the
> (currently) 406 OpenStack maintained packages one by one, by hand? And
> then upload 406 times just to change the maintainer field? Gregor just
> pointed out the 3500 packages of the perl team. There will be others
> (think: javascript/nodejs, python, etc.). Even worse: some packages
> *will* be forgotten, and there *will* be bug reports that will go to
> nowhere because the fields were not addressed.
> 
> I don't understand that there's no consensus we'd be collectively
> wasting too much time doing this type of change, when it could simply be
> addressed by keeping the current lists. This is a major disruption of
> services that we're talking about here.

This manual adding is only needed if you don't use a single email
address as maintainer ... if you do have a single maintainer address for
all packages, you just provide it and the package tracker _will_ group
all the packages automatically.


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:06:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:
> 
> > > This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> > > before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> > > the source package that can change independently of the source package
> > > (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> > > These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> > > the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.
> > 
> > Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> > intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> > even this will be broken for no good reasons.
> if you think so, you have now idea. 
> Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> not yet migrated repos. 

Breaking not yet migrated repos *temporarily* instead in forcing several
thousands of packages to be uploaded is IMHO a solution as obvious that
it needs no extra mentioning.  But all discussion I've read was that it
is not planed.  So why not waiting until the majority is switched and
than redirect anonscm?
 
> Of course you are now one year to late. 

In how far is the suggestion above to late?

Kind regards

 Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Thomas Goirand]

On 12/28/2017 02:33 AM, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo
>  wrote:
>> If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
>> should be using instead.
>>
>> Any recommendation?
> 
> Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
> your team maintains.
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
> 
> Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> or teams.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Bicha

Nice idea, but it doesn't scale. Am I suppose to add all of the
(currently) 406 OpenStack maintained packages one by one, by hand? And
then upload 406 times just to change the maintainer field? Gregor just
pointed out the 3500 packages of the perl team. There will be others
(think: javascript/nodejs, python, etc.). Even worse: some packages
*will* be forgotten, and there *will* be bug reports that will go to
nowhere because the fields were not addressed.

I don't understand that there's no consensus we'd be collectively
wasting too much time doing this type of change, when it could simply be
addressed by keeping the current lists. This is a major disruption of
services that we're talking about here.

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Philipp Kern]

On 12/29/2017 12:51 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Dec 29, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
>> Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
>> not yet migrated repos. 
> Ignore the renamed repositories: if somebody renamed them then they 
> obviously expected to have to update the VCS URLs anyway.
> Switch the anonscm name when alioth will be shut down: the people who 
> have already migrated can keep pushing to the old repository as well to 
> keep it in sync.
> This is not perfect, but it is still better than having to update 
> countless packages.

Put a mapping into a git repository that DDs can push to? Make sure that
it is fast-forwarded always? Then let people deal with it?

Kind regards
Philipp Kern



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marco d'Itri]

On Dec 29, Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
> not yet migrated repos. 
Ignore the renamed repositories: if somebody renamed them then they 
obviously expected to have to update the VCS URLs anyway.
Switch the anonscm name when alioth will be shut down: the people who 
have already migrated can keep pushing to the old repository as well to 
keep it in sync.
This is not perfect, but it is still better than having to update 
countless packages.

> Of course you are now one year to late. 
I do not think that it is our fault to find out just now that a major 
feature of alioth would be broken.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[W. Martin Borgert]

On 2017-12-29 12:42, Paul Wise wrote:
> This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> the source package that can change independently of the source package
> (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.

You are right. It is just not easy to solve this, because this
information must be available on Debian systems. So it would be
something in parallel to downloaded Packages files, right? And
who generates this file(?) based on which information?

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Andreas Tille wrote:

> Hi Paul,
> 
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:42:28PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Guillem Jover wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm also growing some URL switching fatigue when it comes to Debian's
> > > git repos. And that's one of the reasons I moved all my packaging to
> > > my own server some time ago.
> > 
> > This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> > before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> > the source package that can change independently of the source package
> > (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> > These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> > the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.
> 
> Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
> intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
> even this will be broken for no good reasons.
if you think so, you have now idea. 
Please propose a solution for reusing the name without breaking renamed and
not yet migrated repos. 

Of course you are now one year to late. 

Alex

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

Hi Paul,

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:42:28PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Guillem Jover wrote:
> 
> > I'm also growing some URL switching fatigue when it comes to Debian's
> > git repos. And that's one of the reasons I moved all my packaging to
> > my own server some time ago.
> 
> This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> the source package that can change independently of the source package
> (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.

Or more precisely it was a design flaw from the beginning which was
intended to be cured with the workaround of annonscm and now it seems
even this will be broken for no good reasons.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Sean Whitton]

Hello,

On Wed, Dec 27 2017, Sean Whitton wrote:

> I think what would be ideal is having it disabled by default.  People
> can turn it on again for their non-packaging repos.
>
> Upstream's bug tracker suggests GitLab can do this[1] so I've filed a
> request.[2]

... which has now been fulfilled.  Issues are off by default.

Thanks Joerg!

-- 
Sean Whitton


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Lars Wirzenius]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:42:28PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Guillem Jover wrote:
> 
> > I'm also growing some URL switching fatigue when it comes to Debian's
> > git repos. And that's one of the reasons I moved all my packaging to
> > my own server some time ago.
> 
> This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
> before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
> the source package that can change independently of the source package
> (such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
> These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
> the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.

+1

-- 
I want to build worthwhile things that might last. --joeyh

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Paul Wise]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Guillem Jover wrote:

> I'm also growing some URL switching fatigue when it comes to Debian's
> git repos. And that's one of the reasons I moved all my packaging to
> my own server some time ago.

This is just a symptom of a Debian design flaw that dates back to
before we started using VCSen for packaging. We include information in
the source package that can change independently of the source package
(such as Vcs-*, Homepage, debian/watch, Maintainer/Uploaders etc).
These should be stored externally to source packages and merged into
the Packages/Sources files by the archive software.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Serving repos from salsa, via ‘anonscm.debian.org’ URLs (was: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta)

[Ben Finney]

Guillem Jover  writes:

> But this still leaves all checkouts that will also need to be updated,
> which is way way worse than the changes required in debian/control,
> documentation, wiki, etc. :( I also mentioned this when we moved from
> git.d.o to anonscm.d.o.

This is an issue I haven't seen addressed with a solution, so far. We're
being asked to migrate repositories, published at ‘anonscm.debian.org’
URLs, to a host that won't serve those same URLs.

People who have ‘anonscm.debian.org’ as a remote URL should not, IMO, be
expected to know about this move; nor event to check a website prior to
the move (because there's no indication, from accessing that repository
with Git, that anything is expwected to move anywhere).

As Guillen points out, having the existing URL serve a moribund
repository, while the repository continues development somewhere else,
can be avoided – the domains are both in Debian Project control – and
should be avoided if feasible, IMO.

So it's important to keep ‘anonscm.debian.org’ working to access the
same repository at the same URL, after it moves to ‘salsa’.

What is the prospect, having migrated a repository to the
salsa.debian.org host, to continuing to serve the repository at the
published ‘anonscm.debian.org’ URL?

-- 
 \“A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can |
  `\ take from you.” —Ramsey Clark |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Guillem Jover]

On Mon, 2017-12-25 at 21:10:37 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Dec 25, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> > Every user can create projects in their own namespace (similar to GitHub).

> What about git repository URLs?
> I am not looking forward to update all Vcs-Git and Vcs-Browser headers 
> currently referencing anonscm.debian.org.

I rised this in .

I'm also growing some URL switching fatigue when it comes to Debian's
git repos. And that's one of the reasons I moved all my packaging to
my own server some time ago.

But this still leaves all checkouts that will also need to be updated,
which is way way worse than the changes required in debian/control,
documentation, wiki, etc. :( I also mentioned this when we moved from
git.d.o to anonscm.d.o.

For the dpkg repos, which are the only ones I still handle on alioth,
I'm pondering whether to just get something like git.dpkg.org going,
so that I can get out of this, even if just as redirectors, but to be
used as the canonical URLs. :/

Thanks,
Guillem

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Guillem Jover]

On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 01:35:50 +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
> > Collab-maint
> > 
> > 
> > If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> > software, you can create projects within the
> > **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects 
> > created 
> > in this group.
> > If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly 
> > welcoming 
> > all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
> >
> > Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> > but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> > collab-maint group on Alioth.

> For me this is a drawback. I'm a DM and maintain 9 packages within
> collab-maint now. I want to invite other Debian Contributors to help with my
> packages. Now I'd need to ask some DD to create 9 projects for my existing
> packages (and also for new ones) within the Debian group for me. On Alioth I
> could do this on my own. Why the difference?
> I know I can just create the projects within my namespace but I'd loose the 
> idea
> of "hey feel free to contribute to my packages". That's really sad.

I think you can actually do that, and it should be easier than creating and
transferring the projects. When adding new members to your project, just
share it with the Debian group?

Thanks,
Guillem

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Joerg Jaspert]

On 14899 March 1977, Philip Rinn wrote:

> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able to
> create a project within the Debian Science Team]

Those rights depend on the access level you have been given inside that 
project/group.


-- 
bye, Joerg

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Adam Borowski  writes:
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:38:11AM -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Ole Streicher  wrote:
>> > Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
>> > maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
>> > (which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
>> > this address is gone, we would need an alternative.
>> 
>> Someone just has to add the packages to the team list. It's a one-time
>> maintenance cost that in my opinion takes very little time. I don't
>> think it's a scalability problem at all. Surely, someone can spend a
>> few seconds per package.…
>
> On the other hand, this is something that will notoriously get forgotten.
> Thus, some automation would be needed, otherwise it'll quicky go out of sync
> badly.

Aren't there Python APIs for both? Then, this would be trivial.

Cheers

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Adam Borowski]

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 09:38:11AM -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Ole Streicher  wrote:
> > Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
> > maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
> > (which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
> > this address is gone, we would need an alternative.
> 
> Someone just has to add the packages to the team list. It's a one-time
> maintenance cost that in my opinion takes very little time. I don't
> think it's a scalability problem at all. Surely, someone can spend a
> few seconds per package.…

On the other hand, this is something that will notoriously get forgotten.
Thus, some automation would be needed, otherwise it'll quicky go out of sync
badly.


Meow!
-- 
// If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately
// cease using counterfeit alphabets.  Instead, contact the nearest temple
// of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all
// your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices.

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Ole Streicher  wrote:
> Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
> maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
> (which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
> this address is gone, we would need an alternative.

Someone just has to add the packages to the team list. It's a one-time
maintenance cost that in my opinion takes very little time. I don't
think it's a scalability problem at all. Surely, someone can spend a
few seconds per package.…

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Philip Rinn]

On 27.12.2017 12:02:49, Philip Rinn wrote:
> Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> > So yes, you need to get a DD to do the one-off work of creating a
> > "collab-maint" project and grant you "master" powers in that projects
> > (so that you can add future members yourself).  Now, is that really so
> > burdersome?
> 
> Well, probably not. Could you (or anyone else) please transfer[1] the 
> following
> projects to Debian and make me "master" of these?

I learned that transfering projects is not working as I thought. Only the owner 
can transfer them.

Could you (or any other DD) create these projects in the group Debin for me and 
make me "master" of these?

epstool, corebird, gimagereader, gstreamermm-1.0, gtkspellmm, gtranscribe, 
qtpass, rawtherapee, subtitleeditor

Or should I open an issue at https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/support ?

Thanks,

Philip


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

"Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo"  writes:
> 2017-12-28 2:33 GMT+01:00 Jeremy Bicha :
>> Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
>> your team maintains.
>>
>> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
>>
>> Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
>> notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
>> https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
>> keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
>> or teams.
>
> Thanks for the reply Jeremy, but if the mailing lists in Alioth will
> be no more (that's the plan, right?), that's completely missing the
> functionality of the mailing list for discussions within the team, and
> even upstream sometimes.

There are two types of mailing lists, which seem to be mixed up here:

1. discussion lists
2. "maintainer lists" for bug report forwards, upload confirmations etc.

Sometimes, there are separate lists for boths; then usually the
discussion list is on lists.d.o, and the maintainer list is on
alioth. Debian-Science is a prominent example for this.

In this case, the lists.d.o team do does not want to also host the
second list; and here the team tracker may help.

For other teams however (and this is your case), both lists are merged
into one list; and then this list is sometimes on alioth, and sometimes
on lists.d.o. In this case, as far as I understood the lists.d.o-team,
they would agree to move the whole list to lists.d.o. So, you would not
lose any functionality.

Best

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Jeremy Bicha  writes:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo
>  wrote:
>> If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
>> should be using instead.
>>
>> Any recommendation?
>
> Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
> your team maintains.
>
> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
>
> Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> or teams.

Question here is: how does the tracker identify which packages are team
maintained? Currently, this is done with the maintainers mail address
(which is f.e. debian-science-maintainers@alioth.d.o). However, when
this address is gone, we would need an alternative.

Best

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marc Haber]

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:12:30 -0800, Russ Allbery 
wrote:
>Alioth
>supports issues as well, but I'm not sure if any team ever used them, and
>I would be worried things would just disappear there, never to be seen by
>a human.

Alioth tickets were used by some teams, which got me confused like a
thousand times.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marc Haber]

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:52:54 +0100, Adam Borowski
 wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:51:12PM +, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 27 2017, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
>> 
>> > If a team stops using the BTS for bugs and just uses Salsa's Issues
>> > tracker, you can just go to a page like this (for the Salsa Team)
>> > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/salsa/-/issues
>> 
>> Surely that's impossible because tools like britney need to know what
>> bugs are in which suites and only the BTS can do that.
>
>And it sounds bad enough that perhaps it'd be good to disable gitlab issues
>tracker on Salsa?  Otherwise people would file bugs there and expect them to
>be handled instead of being more or less rudely redirected to the BTS.

I would have it disabled by default so that teams or maintainers can
turn it on if they want to use it to track issues outside the Debian
BTS.

We should document that the BTS is still the only Source of Truth.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Marc Haber]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 14:48:50 +0100, Mattia Rizzolo 
wrote:
>On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
>> that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
>> rejects on ftpmaster.
>
>That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
>Maintainer field.

Where does that one forward to? To dispatch+$package_contact@t.d.o?

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber |   " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo]

2017-12-28 2:33 GMT+01:00 Jeremy Bicha :
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo
>  wrote:
>> If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
>> should be using instead.
>>
>> Any recommendation?
>
> Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
> your team maintains.
>
> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
>
> Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> or teams.

Thanks for the reply Jeremy, but if the mailing lists in Alioth will
be no more (that's the plan, right?), that's completely missing the
functionality of the mailing list for discussions within the team, and
even upstream sometimes.


Cheers.
-- 
Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 05:57:10AM +0100, gregor herrmann wrote:
> > 
> > Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> > notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> > https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> > keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> > or teams.
> 
> JFTR: This totally doesn't scale for 3500 packages × 100 people
> (that's the Debian Perl Group). -- I'm not complaining, as a solution
> is in sight: https://wiki.debian.org/Alioth/MailingListContinuation ,
> just pointing out that all those "every package and every person
> individually"-approaches fail the reality check for large teams.

No idea whether a team with about <900 packages and about 40 people
like Debian Med - but I fully agree with Gregor.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[gregor herrmann]

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:33:39 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:

> Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
> your team maintains.
> 
> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/
> 
> Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
> notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
> https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
> keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
> or teams.

JFTR: This totally doesn't scale for 3500 packages × 100 people
(that's the Debian Perl Group). -- I'm not complaining, as a solution
is in sight: https://wiki.debian.org/Alioth/MailingListContinuation ,
just pointing out that all those "every package and every person
individually"-approaches fail the reality check for large teams.


Cheers,
gregor

-- 
 .''`.  https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org
 : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D  85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
 `. `'  Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe
   `-   NP: Bob Dylan: Down the Highway


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo
 wrote:
> If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
> should be using instead.
>
> Any recommendation?

Someone on your team should create a Tracker Team. Add the packages
your team maintains.

https://tracker.debian.org/teams/

Then anyone can simply join that tracker team to easily get
notifications about bugs, commits, uploads, etc. Visit
https://tracker.debian.org/accounts/subscriptions/ and customize the
keywords to get the particular emails you want for particular packages
or teams.

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo]

Hi,

2017-12-27 21:27 Ole Streicher:

Andreas Tille  writes:

I think it became clear what we do not want @lists.debian.org.  However,
what we want is a common maintainer list for team maintenance.


I don't really see this need. This probably depends on the workflow,
therefore could you explain why this is needed?


I have not yet understand how this can be replaced.


Anything that needs to get "maintainer e-mails" (automated mails and
forwards of bug correspondence, right?) could just subscribe to the
individual package on tracker.d.o.


Member of Aptitude, SDL and OpenSceneGraph teams here (among others),
all of them with lists in Alioth, SDL as an umbrella of 10~15 packages.

Apart from receiving bug reports, we sometimes discuss things in the
mailing list, and for me it's handy to have everything in a single place
(discussions and bug reports).  Also, in this way we do not not have to
subscribe individually to many different packages, and we do not have to
make the effort to subscribe individually when new packages come into
the umbrella.

I don't think that this way of working it's replaceable with another
workflow explained in this thread, although I admit that I haven't been
following very closely every single message.

If the idea is *not* to move those to @lists.d.o, I cannot see what we
should be using instead.

Any recommendation?


Cheers.
--
Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Paul Wise]

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:

> I haven't confirmed its available on salsa.d.o, and its unfortunately only
> one project at a time, but GitLab has an export under Project
> Settings→General.

github-backup is client side and works at any point in time without
needing to involve any user of github.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Russ Allbery]

Adam Borowski  writes:

> And it sounds bad enough that perhaps it'd be good to disable gitlab
> issues tracker on Salsa?  Otherwise people would file bugs there and
> expect them to be handled instead of being more or less rudely
> redirected to the BTS.

The confusion potential of a second BTS does seem rather high.  Alioth
supports issues as well, but I'm not sure if any team ever used them, and
I would be worried things would just disappear there, never to be seen by
a human.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Sean Whitton]

Hello,

On Wed, Dec 27 2017, Adam Borowski wrote:

> And it sounds bad enough that perhaps it'd be good to disable gitlab
> issues tracker on Salsa?  Otherwise people would file bugs there and
> expect them to be handled instead of being more or less rudely
> redirected to the BTS.

I think what would be ideal is having it disabled by default.  People
can turn it on again for their non-packaging repos.

Upstream's bug tracker suggests GitLab can do this[1] so I've filed a
request.[2]

[1]  https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ee/issues/2538
[2]  https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/support/issues/11

-- 
Sean Whitton


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:51:12PM +, Sean Whitton wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 27 2017, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> 
> > If a team stops using the BTS for bugs and just uses Salsa's Issues
> > tracker, you can just go to a page like this (for the Salsa Team)
> > https://salsa.debian.org/groups/salsa/-/issues
> 
> Surely that's impossible because tools like britney need to know what
> bugs are in which suites and only the BTS can do that.

And it sounds bad enough that perhaps it'd be good to disable gitlab issues
tracker on Salsa?  Otherwise people would file bugs there and expect them to
be handled instead of being more or less rudely redirected to the BTS.


Meow!
-- 
// If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately
// cease using counterfeit alphabets.  Instead, contact the nearest temple
// of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all
// your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices.

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Sean Whitton]

Hello,

On Wed, Dec 27 2017, Jeremy Bicha wrote:

> If a team stops using the BTS for bugs and just uses Salsa's Issues
> tracker, you can just go to a page like this (for the Salsa Team)
> https://salsa.debian.org/groups/salsa/-/issues

Surely that's impossible because tools like britney need to know what
bugs are in which suites and only the BTS can do that.

-- 
Sean Whitton


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Andreas Tille  writes:
> I think it became clear what we do not want @lists.debian.org.  However,
> what we want is a common maintainer list for team maintenance.

I don't really see this need. This probably depends on the workflow,
therefore could you explain why this is needed?

> I have not yet understand how this can be replaced.

Anything that needs to get "maintainer e-mails" (automated mails and
forwards of bug correspondence, right?) could just subscribe to the
individual package on tracker.d.o.

> It is a feature several teams are relying on and we want to adapt the
> maintainer field to this.

I currently really see the problem that the -maintainers email address
is published too often and at the wrong place, and people try to use
it as discussion list. This requires a constant manual check of these
mails, which is especially annoying since they are flooded by spam mails as
well. And if someone (ab)used it, additional effort is required to
redirect this to the discussion list.

I would really like to see the "Maintainer:" field as a possible contact
for humans (so, put debian-science@lists.d.o there), and do the
automated stuff with the package related address.

Cheers

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Tobias Frost  wrote:
> How can one easily retrieve a list of packages from a specific team,

The team can make a Tracker team and add their packages individually
to the team like this:
https://tracker.debian.org/teams/desktop-themes-team/

(This is a very new team that technically doesn't have any packages
yet but I "borrowed" a few packages as demonstration.)

And additionally, it's assumed that the Team will have an associated
salsa group (team) where you can easily see the list of maintained
packages.

> or list all bugs in the scope of the team? (just as two example)

If a team stops using the BTS for bugs and just uses Salsa's Issues
tracker, you can just go to a page like this (for the Salsa Team)
https://salsa.debian.org/groups/salsa/-/issues

Jeremy

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Tobias Frost]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:48:50PM +0100, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
> > that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
> > rejects on ftpmaster.
> 
> That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
> Maintainer field.

Doesn't that break a lot of stuff, like the DDPO for teams and like?
How can one easily retrieve a list of packages from a specific team,
or list all bugs in the scope of the team? (just as two example)


 
> -- 
> regards,
> Mattia Rizzolo
> 
> GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
> more about me:  https://mapreri.org : :'  :
> Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
> Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Anthony DeRobertis]

On 12/27/2017 05:06 AM, Paul Wise wrote:

Does anyone know if there is a tool similar to github-backup that
supports gitlab?

I haven't confirmed its available on salsa.d.o, and its unfortunately 
only one project at a time, but GitLab has an export under Project 
Settings→General.

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 03:01:47PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > > Unfortunately that is something that has to be done. At least unless 
> > > someone
> > > wants to write some kind of redirection map. 
> > I am really surprised that this issue was not considered: I expect that 
> > git hosting is by far the most common use case for alioth.
> it was considered, but nobody wanted to write it and how exactly it should
> work. 

The Debian Med team has currently 874 packages and I have spent a lot of
time to migrate everything from SVN to Git and to fix all the Vcs
fields.  It would be pretty boring to do another upload of >800 packages
to fix VCS fields again (more or less every three years to something
else).

Kind regards

   Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 02:49:18PM +0100, Thibaut Paumard wrote:
> > I fully agree here. It makes pages like
> > 
> > https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=debian-astro-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
> > 
> > quite nonfunctional. And they are even not simple to restore with the
> > name, since there is no really canonical name for the teams: The Debian
> > Astro team is sometimes called (even by myself):
> 
> Could we and should we use the blend's meta-package address for that:
> 
> science-astron...@packages.debian.org?

We have lots of teams which do not rely on Blends metapackages.  So this
hack would work for a quite limited set of cases.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Andreas Tille]

Hi Alexander,

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 06:17:47PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > GNOME Team's current pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth and the Games
> > Team's pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth)?
> > 
> > A few packages and pseudo-packages already have lists.d.o mailing lists
> > as their Maintainer, for instance debian-boot and debian-kernel. I know
> > some GNOME team developers have suggested having debian-gtk-gnome as our
> > canonical maintainer address: Alexander, presumably your response means
> > that this would be considered inappropriate, and the GNOME team should
> > keep debian-gtk-gnome as a discussion list only?
> We are happy running lists like debian-boot that are used for discussions,
> bugs and commit messages. But please not things like bugs and commit messages
> only lists. So if -gtk decides a one for all list fits them we are happy with
> it, but we won't run for example a -gkt-commits and -gtk-bugs list.

I think it became clear what we do not want @lists.debian.org.  However,
what we want is a common maintainer list for team maintenance.  I have
not yet understand how this can be replaced.  It is a feature several
teams are relying on and we want to adapt the maintainer field to this.

Kind regards

  Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Dominic Hargreaves]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 07:12:06PM +0100, Sven Hoexter wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 06:42:42PM +0100, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > 2017-12-26 18:15 GMT+01:00 Alexander Wirt :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > > The infrastructure and tools are not good in maintaining such a huge 
> > > number
> > > of lists.
> > 
> > That is OK, but can we then have @lists.alioth.debian.org running
> > or it is planned to disable it also?
> 
> There was already a longer discussion about the future of those lists,
> which originated at 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/09/msg4.html
> 
> But so far no outcome as far as I followed the discussion.

Progress has been slow for a number of reasons but the current status
is now at  and
I've just emailing alioth-staff-replacement about whether we can do
an opt-in data migration.

Cheers,
Dominic.

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Thibaut Paumard]

Le 26/12/2017 à 21:34, Ole Streicher a écrit :


I agree with your reasoning. I just wanted to highlight that the situation
is in fact worse with the "Team foo " schema: Our
tools do not seem ready for that yet.


I fully agree here. It makes pages like

https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=debian-astro-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org

quite nonfunctional. And they are even not simple to restore with the
name, since there is no really canonical name for the teams: The Debian
Astro team is sometimes called (even by myself):


Could we and should we use the blend's meta-package address for that:

science-astron...@packages.debian.org?

T.

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Philip Rinn]

Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> So yes, you need to get a DD to do the one-off work of creating a
> "collab-maint" project and grant you "master" powers in that projects
> (so that you can add future members yourself).  Now, is that really so
> burdersome?

Well, probably not. Could you (or anyone else) please transfer[1] the following
projects to Debian and make me "master" of these?

https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/epstool
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/corebird
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/gimagereader
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/gstreamermm-1.0
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/gtkspellmm
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/gtranscribe
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/qtpass
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/rawtherapee
https://salsa.debian.org/rinni-guest/subtitleeditor

Thanks,

Philip


[1] Settings -> General -> Advanced settings -> Transfer project


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Philip Rinn]

On 27.12.2017 08:33:12, Anton Gladky wrote:
> 2017-12-27 1:35 GMT+01:00 Philip Rinn :
> 
> > Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> > teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able 
> > to
> > create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> 
> Hmm, it is really so that the users with the role "master" or "owner" are able
> to create new projects. The users with the role "developer" are not
> able to do it.

True, see: 
https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/permissions.html#group-members-permissions

> Should we use the role "master" by default? What is the common practice?

Yes, I think "master" should be the default role for team members.

Philip


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:02:06AM +0100, Ole Streicher wrote:
>> Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
>> > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
>> >> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects
>> >> within teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I
>> >> was not able to create a project within the Debian Science Team]
>> >
>> > As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
>> > between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
>> > create projects.
>> 
>> There is another important difference: masters can add new team
>> members. Which means that we actually loose any control on the team
>> members if we grant "master" to all. For collab-maint, since all DDs are
>> masters there, anyone can actually decide to grant "master" to any
>> non-DD on the base of *personal* trust (right?).
>
> AFAIK, that's only true for projects.
> "masters" can't add people to teams, but they can add new members to
> single projects.

Are you sure? I am a Debian Science "master", and I get automated
requests to add people to Debian Science. I couldn't check it, however,
since someone else was always quicker :-)

> IMHO, that's fine pretty much everywhere: if you trust somebody to
> create a repository, you probably also trust them to allow somebody
> else to work on it (and take the right decision about which level of
> permission to grant to the new collaborator).

If that is the case, yes. That would however mean that all maintainers
should be "Owners", right?

Best

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Paul Wise]

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Alexander Wirt wrote:

> we have worked on our git.debian.org replacement based on GitLab.

Does anyone know if there is a tool similar to github-backup that
supports gitlab?

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Mattia Rizzolo]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 10:02:06AM +0100, Ole Streicher wrote:
> Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
> > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
> >> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects
> >> within teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I
> >> was not able to create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> >
> > As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
> > between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
> > create projects.
> 
> There is another important difference: masters can add new team
> members. Which means that we actually loose any control on the team
> members if we grant "master" to all. For collab-maint, since all DDs are
> masters there, anyone can actually decide to grant "master" to any
> non-DD on the base of *personal* trust (right?).

AFAIK, that's only true for projects.
"masters" can't add people to teams, but they can add new members to
single projects.  IMHO, that's fine pretty much everywhere: if you trust
somebody to create a repository, you probably also trust them to allow
somebody else to work on it (and take the right decision about which
level of permission to grant to the new collaborator).

-- 
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo

GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
more about me:  https://mapreri.org : :'  :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
>> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects
>> within teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I
>> was not able to create a project within the Debian Science Team]
>
> As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
> between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
> create projects.

There is another important difference: masters can add new team
members. Which means that we actually loose any control on the team
members if we grant "master" to all. For collab-maint, since all DDs are
masters there, anyone can actually decide to grant "master" to any
non-DD on the base of *personal* trust (right?).

> So yes, you need to get a DD to do the one-off work of creating a
> "collab-maint" project and grant you "master" powers in that projects
> (so that you can add future members yourself).  Now, is that really so
> burdersome?

For collab-maint, I think this is a problem: we actually want to get
people into collab-maint, and so the threshold to do so should be as low
as possible. If, as a non-DD, I first have to request the repository
creation from someone else, I even may decide to create the repository
in my personal space instead. From my pre-DD experiences I remember,
that it is quite boring to need to wait for others on every step, and I
personally would just skip those steps which are not needed to complete
my package.

For specialized teams (f.e. Debian Astro, and maybe Debian Science), I
however don't think this is a problem: There is usually someone who
anyway observes the ITPs for packages that may fit (f.e. I do that for
Astro; Andreas is known to answer on potential Science packages). Then
one could also just offer to create the repository.

Best regards

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta, roles

[Geert Stappers]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:48:29AM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:33:12AM +0100, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > 2017-12-27 1:35 GMT+01:00 Philip Rinn :
> > 
> > > Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> > > teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not 
> > > able to
> > > create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> > 
> > Hmm, it is really so that the users with the role "master" or "owner" are 
> > able
> > to create new projects. The users with the role "developer" are not
> > able to do it.
> > 
> > Should we use the role "master" by default? What is the common practice?
> 
> Good question.  I don't know, I have added 'roles' to subject line
> with the intention that guide lines for roles will be provided.
> 


On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:46:25AM +0100, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
> > Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> > teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able 
> > to
> > create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> 
> As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
> between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
> create projects.
> 
> > For me this is a drawback. I'm a DM and maintain 9 packages within
> > collab-maint now. I want to invite other Debian Contributors to help with my
> > packages. Now I'd need to ask some DD to create 9 projects for my existing
> > packages (and also for new ones) within the Debian group for me. On Alioth I
> > could do this on my own. Why the difference?
> 
> It's not different.  Also on alioth you weren't supposed to be able to
> create repositories. 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/08/msg8.html
> But apparently that wasn't really enforced as wild cronjobs keep
> overriding the one that restore the inted permissions as written there.
> 
> So yes, you need to get a DD to do the one-off work of creating a
> "collab-maint" project and grant you "master" powers in that projects
> (so that you can add future members yourself).



Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Leven en laten leven

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Afif Elghraoui]

على الأربعاء 27 كانون الأول 2017 ‫02:46، كتب Mattia Rizzolo:
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
>> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
>> teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able 
>> to
>> create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
> between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
> create projects.
> 

here is the breakdown: https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/permissions.html

Masters can create projects, but not delete them. Only Owners can do that.

Developers also can't push to protected branches (and I believe master
is by default a protected branch).

regards
Afif

-- 
Afif Elghraoui | عفيف الغراوي
http://afif.ghraoui.name

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta, roles

[Geert Stappers]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 08:33:12AM +0100, Anton Gladky wrote:
> 2017-12-27 1:35 GMT+01:00 Philip Rinn :
> 
> > Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> > teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able 
> > to
> > create a project within the Debian Science Team]
> 
> Hmm, it is really so that the users with the role "master" or "owner" are able
> to create new projects. The users with the role "developer" are not
> able to do it.
> 
> Should we use the role "master" by default? What is the common practice?

Good question.  I don't know, I have added 'roles' to subject line
with the intention that guide lines for roles will be provided.


Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Leven en laten leven

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Mattia Rizzolo]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 01:35:50AM +0100, Philip Rinn wrote:
> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able to
> create a project within the Debian Science Team]

As Anton noted, you need to be a "master" in that group.  The difference
between "master" and "developer" in groups is only that masters can
create projects.

> > Collab-maint
> > 
> > 
> > If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> > software, you can create projects within the
> > **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects 
> > created 
> > in this group.
> > If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly 
> > welcoming 
> > all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
> >
> > Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> > but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> > collab-maint group on Alioth.
>   
> For me this is a drawback. I'm a DM and maintain 9 packages within
> collab-maint now. I want to invite other Debian Contributors to help with my
> packages. Now I'd need to ask some DD to create 9 projects for my existing
> packages (and also for new ones) within the Debian group for me. On Alioth I
> could do this on my own. Why the difference?

It's not different.  Also on alioth you weren't supposed to be able to
create repositories. 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/08/msg8.html
But apparently that wasn't really enforced as wild cronjobs keep
overriding the one that restore the inted permissions as written there.

So yes, you need to get a DD to do the one-off work of creating a
"collab-maint" project and grant you "master" powers in that projects
(so that you can add future members yourself).  Now, is that really so
burdersome?

-- 
regards,
Mattia Rizzolo

GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18  4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540  .''`.
more about me:  https://mapreri.org : :'  :
Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri  `. `'`
Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia  `-


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Anton Gladky]

2017-12-27 1:35 GMT+01:00 Philip Rinn :

> Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
> teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able to
> create a project within the Debian Science Team]

Hmm, it is really so that the users with the role "master" or "owner" are able
to create new projects. The users with the role "developer" are not
able to do it.

Should we use the role "master" by default? What is the common practice?

Thanks for setting up the salsa-service.

Anton

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Philip Rinn]

Hi,

thanks for your work, salsa is really great!

Is it true (and intended) that -guest users can't create projects within
teams/groups they are member of? Or am I missing something? [I was not able to
create a project within the Debian Science Team]

> Collab-maint
> 
> 
> If you want to allow other Debian Developers to work on your packages or 
> software, you can create projects within the
> **Debian** group. Every Debian Developer has write access to projects created 
> in this group.
> If you create a project within the Debian group, you are implicitly welcoming 
> all DDs to contribute directly to the project.
>
> Guest users can only be added to individual projects with the Debian group, 
> but not to the entire Debian group. This is different to the policy for the 
> collab-maint group on Alioth.
  
For me this is a drawback. I'm a DM and maintain 9 packages within
collab-maint now. I want to invite other Debian Contributors to help with my
packages. Now I'd need to ask some DD to create 9 projects for my existing
packages (and also for new ones) within the Debian group for me. On Alioth I
could do this on my own. Why the difference?
I know I can just create the projects within my namespace but I'd loose the idea
of "hey feel free to contribute to my packages". That's really sad.
  
Best,
Philip



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Mehdi Dogguy  writes:
> On 26/12/2017 15:05, Ole Streicher wrote:
>> Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
>>> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
 The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
 that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
 rejects on ftpmaster.
>>>
>>> That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
>>> Maintainer field.
>> 
>> So, one should use f.e.
>> 
>> Maintainer: Debian Science Team 
>> 
>> to indicate it is a team maintained package? The field is not only used
>> to give a contact address, but also to get an idea who is actually
>> maintaining a package. For example, I feel much more attracted to fix a
>> bug in a package that is maintained by a team where I am member of, and
>> I would like to see this directly instead of needing to search whether
>> it is among the 1000 Debian Science packages.
>
> I agree with your reasoning. I just wanted to highlight that the situation
> is in fact worse with the "Team foo " schema: Our
> tools do not seem ready for that yet.

I fully agree here. It makes pages like

https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=debian-astro-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org

quite nonfunctional. And they are even not simple to restore with the
name, since there is no really canonical name for the teams: The Debian
Astro team is sometimes called (even by myself):

* Debian Astro Maintainers
* Debian Astronomy Maintainers
* Debian Astro team
* Debian Astro Team
etc.

What is unique is just the mail adress.

However, in principle this *may* be the discussion list address. I would
even prefer that, since the package maintainer address is quite
prominently presented everywhere, and therefore often used by people to
contact us. In the debian-astro-maintainers@alioth.d.o this has the
danger to get lost between upload confirmations and bug processing
mails.

To change the team address to the discussion list (@lists.d.o) would
however require that the automated mails (uploads, bug mails) are not
longer forwarded to that address. I also don't see a need for this,
since the subscription on tracker.d.o allows a much more fine-grained
access here.

Are there any plans (or already possibilities) to disable the
processing/bug mail forwarding to the maintainer address?

> A team needs a single point of contact and f...@packages.debian.org doesn't
> provide that. Or we need other means to identify teams (and using a regexp
> on names attached to an email address is not a solution).

A team usually has a discussion list, and this is also the point of
contact for a human. I would rather not like to have robots there.

Best regards

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Mehdi Dogguy]

On 26/12/2017 15:05, Ole Streicher wrote:
> Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
>> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
>>> that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
>>> rejects on ftpmaster.
>>
>> That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
>> Maintainer field.
> 
> So, one should use f.e.
> 
> Maintainer: Debian Science Team 
> 
> to indicate it is a team maintained package? The field is not only used
> to give a contact address, but also to get an idea who is actually
> maintaining a package. For example, I feel much more attracted to fix a
> bug in a package that is maintained by a team where I am member of, and
> I would like to see this directly instead of needing to search whether
> it is among the 1000 Debian Science packages.
> 

I agree with your reasoning. I just wanted to highlight that the situation
is in fact worse with the "Team foo " schema: Our
tools do not seem ready for that yet.

For example, have a look at the following packages:
- https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/siridb-server
- https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libcleri

The maintainer box is not even shown. I guess this might be a bug to file
against tracker.debian.org.

On DDPO, it is even more misleading:
- https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=libcleri%40packages.debian.org

People unfamiliar with our tools may believe SiriDB Maintainers are
maintaining one single package, while it is not.

Those two pitfalls were easy to spot, but I believe that there are others.

A team needs a single point of contact and f...@packages.debian.org doesn't
provide that. Or we need other means to identify teams (and using a regexp
on names attached to an email address is not a solution).

I am happy that listmasters clarified their position on this matter in the
meantime. But if we really want to reduce traffic on discussion mailing-lists,
I think that realistic proposals should build upon the notion of teams in
tracker.d.o or in gitlab (or both?). Both tools have a notion of a "team"
or a "group" and could provide an email alias for member subscribed or
member of those groups. I believe this would address the need of most teams,
to have a single point of contact. Such aliases would help us to avoid bug
notifications and alike on discussion MLs.

Best,

-- 
Mehdi

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Sven Hoexter]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 06:42:42PM +0100, Anton Gladky wrote:
> 2017-12-26 18:15 GMT+01:00 Alexander Wirt :

Hi,

> > The infrastructure and tools are not good in maintaining such a huge number
> > of lists.
> 
> That is OK, but can we then have @lists.alioth.debian.org running
> or it is planned to disable it also?

There was already a longer discussion about the future of those lists,
which originated at 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/09/msg4.html

But so far no outcome as far as I followed the discussion.

Cheers,
Sven

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Anton Gladky]

2017-12-26 18:15 GMT+01:00 Alexander Wirt :
>> On Tue, 2017-12-26 at 16:02 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:

>> > We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o
>>
>> Why not?
> The infrastructure and tools are not good in maintaining such a huge number
> of lists.

That is OK, but can we then have @lists.alioth.debian.org running
or it is planned to disable it also?

Thanks

Anton

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Simon McVittie wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 at 16:02:08 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > > I think we should request the list something like
> > > debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
> > > and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org
> >
> > We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o
> 
> I assume the intended policy is that lists.debian.org is suitable for
> discussion lists (like the GNOME Team's debian-gtk-gnome@lists and
> the Games Team's debian-devel-games@lists), but not for the maintainer
> address of record that gets all the bugs and other bulk mail (like the
> GNOME Team's current pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth and the Games
> Team's pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth)?
> 
> A few packages and pseudo-packages already have lists.d.o mailing lists
> as their Maintainer, for instance debian-boot and debian-kernel. I know
> some GNOME team developers have suggested having debian-gtk-gnome as our
> canonical maintainer address: Alexander, presumably your response means
> that this would be considered inappropriate, and the GNOME team should
> keep debian-gtk-gnome as a discussion list only?
We are happy running lists like debian-boot that are used for discussions,
bugs and commit messages. But please not things like bugs and commit messages
only lists. So if -gtk decides a one for all list fits them we are happy with
it, but we won't run for example a -gkt-commits and -gtk-bugs list.

Alex
 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Tue, 2017-12-26 at 16:02 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > 
> > > 2017-12-26 15:05 GMT+01:00 Ole Streicher :
> > > > Maintainer: Debian Science Team 
> > > 
> > > I think we should request the list something like
> > > debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
> > > and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org
> > 
> > We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o
> 
> Why not?
The infrastructure and tools are not good in maintaining such a huge number
of lists. 

Alex


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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ben Hutchings]

On Tue, 2017-12-26 at 16:02 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Anton Gladky wrote:
> 
> > 2017-12-26 15:05 GMT+01:00 Ole Streicher :
> > > Maintainer: Debian Science Team 
> > 
> > I think we should request the list something like
> > debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
> > and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org
> 
> We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o

Why not?

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
The world is coming to an end.  Please log off.



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Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Simon McVittie]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 at 16:02:08 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Anton Gladky wrote:
> > I think we should request the list something like
> > debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
> > and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org
>
> We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o

I assume the intended policy is that lists.debian.org is suitable for
discussion lists (like the GNOME Team's debian-gtk-gnome@lists and
the Games Team's debian-devel-games@lists), but not for the maintainer
address of record that gets all the bugs and other bulk mail (like the
GNOME Team's current pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth and the Games
Team's pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth)?

A few packages and pseudo-packages already have lists.d.o mailing lists
as their Maintainer, for instance debian-boot and debian-kernel. I know
some GNOME team developers have suggested having debian-gtk-gnome as our
canonical maintainer address: Alexander, presumably your response means
that this would be considered inappropriate, and the GNOME team should
keep debian-gtk-gnome as a discussion list only?

smcv

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Anton Gladky wrote:

> 2017-12-26 15:05 GMT+01:00 Ole Streicher :
> > Maintainer: Debian Science Team 
> 
> I think we should request the list something like
> debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
> and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org
We don't want maintainter lists on l.d.o

Alex - speaking as and for the listmasters
 

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Anton Gladky]

2017-12-26 15:05 GMT+01:00 Ole Streicher :
> Maintainer: Debian Science Team 

I think we should request the list something like
debian-science-maintain...@lists.debian.org
and use it instead of @lists.alioth.debian.org

Cheers

Anton

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Ole Streicher]

Mattia Rizzolo  writes:
> On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 02:45:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> The time before the last time I asked about tracker, the answer was
>> that this was not yet possible due to old lintian doing automated
>> rejects on ftpmaster.
>
> That's now fixed, and you can use $pack...@packages.debian.org in the
> Maintainer field.

So, one should use f.e.

Maintainer: Debian Science Team 

to indicate it is a team maintained package? The field is not only used
to give a contact address, but also to get an idea who is actually
maintaining a package. For example, I feel much more attracted to fix a
bug in a package that is maintained by a team where I am member of, and
I would like to see this directly instead of needing to search whether
it is among the 1000 Debian Science packages.

If we don't have such a rule, then the Maintainer field is quite
redundant -- at least the mail address there *is* already.

Best

Ole

Re: salsa.debian.org (git.debian.org replacement) going into beta

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> On Dec 26, Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately that is something that has to be done. At least unless someone
> > wants to write some kind of redirection map. 
> I am really surprised that this issue was not considered: I expect that 
> git hosting is by far the most common use case for alioth.
it was considered, but nobody wanted to write it and how exactly it should
work. 

Alex



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