Re: cube-data package
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:25:47 +0200 Gonéri Le Bouder wrote: > On Tuesday 18 April 2006 12:52, Francesco Poli wrote: [...] > > An alternative could be persuading upstream to relicense both engine > > (client+server) and data in a DFSG-free manner. > > For instance, everything could be re-released under the ZLIB license > > (and provided with source code, of course!). > > > > Let's not give up before even trying! [...] > Cube data files copyright are hold by a large amount of contributors. > The majority of the works are under non free licenses. Relicensing is > IMO a very hard task. I've important difficulty to contact just 2 > authors... I can't imagine the work is it to contact every authors... I see. Thanks for having tried hard to have a reasonable discussion with the main author. And, above all things, thanks for clarifying the (horrible) licensing status of a game that I used to wrongly believe to be free. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpsLpMcS7J6H.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: cube-data package
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:09 +0300 Eddy Petri__or wrote: > On 4/18/06, Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > > An alternative could be persuading upstream to relicense both engine > > (client+server) and data in a DFSG-free manner. > > For instance, everything could be re-released under the ZLIB license > > (and provided with source code, of course!). > > > > Let's not give up before even trying! > > Really? > > Follow this thread: > > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-games-devel/2006-April/000831.html Geeez... Thanks for the pointer and sorry for having suggested what has already been tried. I think we don't need another hostile and aggressive upstream for Debian. At this point, MHO is: better look for a different game and forget about Cube... Thanks for giving it a try. P.S.: No need to Cc: me, as long as debian-legal is among recipients. Thanks. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgp1W6evCpMLK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: cube-data package
On 4/18/06, Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:39:26 -0700 Josh Triplett wrote: > > Seems reasonable. > > > > If enough Free data existed to play the game (even with a vastly > > reduced dataset), you could split the data into cube-data and > > cube-data-nonfree packages, and put the Free client and server in > > main. > > An alternative could be persuading upstream to relicense both engine > (client+server) and data in a DFSG-free manner. > For instance, everything could be re-released under the ZLIB license > (and provided with source code, of course!). > > Let's not give up before even trying! Really? Follow this thread: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-games-devel/2006-April/000831.html > Cube looks impressive, but there are other games that are both > technically good *and* DFSG-free: I don't see a reason why Cube should > "of course" be non-free... > > > -- > :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) > .. > Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 > Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 > > > -- Regards, EddyP = "Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein
Re: cube-data package
On Tuesday 18 April 2006 12:52, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:39:26 -0700 Josh Triplett wrote: > > Gonéri Le Bouder wrote: > > [...] > > > > What i want to do: > > > From source: > > > - cube-client > > > - cube-server > > > > > > From data: > > > - cube-client-nonfree > > > - cube-server-nonfree > > > - cube-data > > > > Seems reasonable. > > > > If enough Free data existed to play the game (even with a vastly > > reduced dataset), you could split the data into cube-data and > > cube-data-nonfree packages, and put the Free client and server in > > main. > > An alternative could be persuading upstream to relicense both engine > (client+server) and data in a DFSG-free manner. > For instance, everything could be re-released under the ZLIB license > (and provided with source code, of course!). > > Let's not give up before even trying! > Cube looks impressive, but there are other games that are both > technically good *and* DFSG-free: I don't see a reason why Cube should > "of course" be non-free... Cube data files copyright are hold by a large amount of contributors. The majority of the works are under non free licenses. Relicensing is IMO a very hard task. I've important difficulty to contact just 2 authors... I can't imagine the work is it to contact every authors... For a license list see: http://goneri2.free.fr/cube/ Regards, Gonéri
Re: cube-data package
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:39:26 -0700 Josh Triplett wrote: > Gonéri Le Bouder wrote: [...] > > What i want to do: > > From source: > > - cube-client > > - cube-server > > > > From data: > > - cube-client-nonfree > > - cube-server-nonfree > > - cube-data > > Seems reasonable. > > If enough Free data existed to play the game (even with a vastly > reduced dataset), you could split the data into cube-data and > cube-data-nonfree packages, and put the Free client and server in > main. An alternative could be persuading upstream to relicense both engine (client+server) and data in a DFSG-free manner. For instance, everything could be re-released under the ZLIB license (and provided with source code, of course!). Let's not give up before even trying! Cube looks impressive, but there are other games that are both technically good *and* DFSG-free: I don't see a reason why Cube should "of course" be non-free... -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpTwbE0ePg7L.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: cube-data package
Gonéri Le Bouder wrote: > To clarify: > game engine: zipped file that containt source code of the engine without the > network modified code. > data tarball: targziped file that containt music/textures/models and > precompliled client/server with modified network code. > >> 0. please copy and paste the full license text in your reply > The full license of the game engine is here. > http://goneri2.free.fr/cube/ > >> 1. please specify clearly which parts it applies to >>(game engine? game data? both?) > The game engine is provided under the ZLIB license. > > The data tarball is provided under the license i pasted in the first mail > and > some others different license (Cf: URL to svn.debian.org). > It contain precompiled client and server for Linux/FreeBSD i386. I want to > provied them since they have a modified network code to avoid cheat and they > are needed to connect to some public server. Of course, they are not free. Ignoring the precompiled modified client and server, it looks like the data file licenses range from Free to non-free to permission-required to no license given at all. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Free data files provide nearly enough to play the game, so the data needs to go to non-free; some of the files cannot even go in non-free. From your copyright file, some of the licenses requiring permission (beyond that presumably already given to cube): > *-> packages/spen > Map design is copyright 2004 Bill Spencer. > You're free to distribute this map pack as you wish as long as: you make no > profit, and leave the entire archive intact. However, Internet distribution > is to be > only through web sites of my choosing as long as one exists. *Elements* of > the map > may be used only as provided below. So this one needs permission from that author in order to distribute; that permission would need to cover the entire Debian mirror network, including both official and unofficial mirrors. > *-> packages/dcp_the_core all included data is designed for the cube > game engine. any other use or any form of redistribution requires my > permission. Same problem. Some of the licenses also state that distribution can occur "via electronic media (Internet, FTP, BBS) only"; that may not pose a problem for non-free, since I think distributors of non-free CDs already need to take caution and check individual packages, but I don't know the policy on that. Also note that several of the packages require distribution of an unmodified archive. It looks like a few of the data files do fall under Free licenses, though; I wonder if one could scrape together enough of them to play a full level? >> Let's start by checking whether this package *can* enter main. >> If (and only if) it turns out it cannot, we'll discuss whether it's >> distributable from the non-free repositories... >> OK? > IMO the engine can't enter main since it depends on its data to work. Right; the Free engine would need to go to contrib, if you decide to package it. > What i want to do: > From source: > - cube-client > - cube-server > > From data: > - cube-client-nonfree > - cube-server-nonfree > - cube-data Seems reasonable. If enough Free data existed to play the game (even with a vastly reduced dataset), you could split the data into cube-data and cube-data-nonfree packages, and put the Free client and server in main. - Josh Triplett signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: cube-data package
Thank you for your interest in Cube. >Firstoff, a little question: which format do game data come in? >I mean: > > (A) data (as used by the game engine) are "compiled" from another form > (preferred for making modifications) The data materials content files with these extensions: mp3, cgz, md2, ogg and Linux/i386 binary. So i guess the answer is A. To clarify: game engine: zipped file that containt source code of the engine without the network modified code. data tarball: targziped file that containt music/textures/models and precompliled client/server with modified network code. > 0. please copy and paste the full license text in your reply The full license of the game engine is here. http://goneri2.free.fr/cube/ > 1. please specify clearly which parts it applies to >(game engine? game data? both?) The game engine is provided under the ZLIB license. The data tarball is provided under the license i pasted in the first mail and some others different license (Cf: URL to svn.debian.org). It contain precompiled client and server for Linux/FreeBSD i386. I want to provied them since they have a modified network code to avoid cheat and they are needed to connect to some public server. Of course, they are not free. > 2. please clarify which parts source code is available for >(game engine? game data? both?) The engine source code is provided without the modified network code. > Let's start by checking whether this package *can* enter main. > If (and only if) it turns out it cannot, we'll discuss whether it's > distributable from the non-free repositories... > OK? IMO the engine can't enter main since it depends on its data to work. What i want to do: From source: - cube-client - cube-server From data: - cube-client-nonfree - cube-server-nonfree - cube-data Cheers, Gonéri
Re: cube-data package
On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:56:52 +0200 Gonéri Le Bouder wrote: > Hello list, Hi! > > We (Debian's pkg-game team), are interested to package a video game > called Cube (http://cube.sf.net). I already knew about Cube: that is to say, I knew that it exists... The game looks impressive (at least from the screenshots). I hope it can make its way into Debian (as long as license issues are solved for the best, more on this below!). > > The game is provided in a tarball[1] that provided a precompiled > binary and data game materials (textures, sounds, etc). > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cube/cube_2005_08_29_unix.tar.gz?download > Another package[2] exists with source code of the client under ZLIB. > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cube/cube_2005_08_29_src.zip?download Firstoff, a little question: which format do game data come in? I mean: (A) data (as used by the game engine) are "compiled" from another form (preferred for making modifications) (B) the format preferred for modifying game data is the same exact form that is read by the game engine Is it (A) or (B)? > A clarified copyright file exists here: > http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-games/packages/cube/cube-data/trunk/debian/copyright?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 > > > The game tarball is provided under this license: > Cube is freeware, you may use Cube for any purpose as long as you > don't blame me for any damages incurred, and you may freely > distribute the cube archive unmodified on any media. If you wish to > use the cube source code in any way (available from where you got > this), even just a mere build, read the readme.txt file carefully > (ZLIB license). > This is awkward. Here Cube is claimed to be "freeware" (I'm not sure if upstream know what's the usual meaning of this vague term...). At http://www.cubeengine.com/, I instead read: | Cube is an open source multiplayer and singleplayer first person | shooter game [...] | and includes source code (open source: ZLIB license). "Open source" is yet another vague term... :-( Anyway, if by "ZLIB license" they mean the license of the zlib library (as found in the zlib-bin Debian package, for instance), that license is suitable for releasing DFSG-free software. So, could you please clarify which license are we talking about and what does it apply to? What I'd ask you is: 0. please copy and paste the full license text in your reply 1. please specify clearly which parts it applies to (game engine? game data? both?) 2. please clarify which parts source code is available for (game engine? game data? both?) If any of these questions are not clear to you, I can elaborate more. If you simply don't know the answer, I'd suggest talking to upstream in order to seek clarification. > > Since we don't change contain of the materials. Do you think that we > can split the game tarball in two packages: > cube-client-non-free (non-free) > cube-data (non-free) Let's start by checking whether this package *can* enter main. If (and only if) it turns out it cannot, we'll discuss whether it's distributable from the non-free repositories... OK? -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpoJB7RpR77f.pgp Description: PGP signature
