gnus losing mail?

[Paul Johnson]

gnus seems to have this odd habit of at least appearing not to handle
incoming mail very well.  It warns that the mailbox was changed on
disk out from under emacs and asks if I really want to save my
changes.  If I say no, I can't leave the group.  If I say yes, I have
this unsure feeling that I could be missing mail.

So is gnus doing the right thing, or am I losing mail by saving?

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Re: gnus: How to automagically handle GPG

[Paul Johnson]

Kirk Strauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 2004-03-16T18:56:55Z, Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> OK, I can sign and view inline PGP-signed messages, but I see PGP/MIME as
>> an attachment...blarg.  And I don't seem to see it automatically in
>> newsgroups.
>
> That's... unexpected.  Maybe quit and reload Emacs?

I tried that.  Didn't seem to change anything.

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Re:ide-scsi emulation not working

[David Baron]

Note that, as is posted on bootup, ide-scsi is deprecated in 2.6 kernels. They 
recomment ide-cd instead. I am not clear how to make the switch.

However, ide-scsi is still around and does work. The mounting moints of the 
CDs has changed. In 2.4 kernel, they got to /dev/hd*, in 2.6 they get 
to /dev/scd*. So you need new lines in /etc/fstab. If you are still using the 
old kernel, both sets of lines can coexist without problems.

> I'm running sid, with a stock 2.6.3-1-686 kernel.


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Re: Gnome completely broken: no characters appear!

[Andy Ruddock]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Christophe Combelles wrote:
| Christophe Combelles wrote:
|
|> Since this morning, after a dist-upgrade on Sid, I cannot use Gnome
|> anymore.
|> Everything is OK while on gdm, but after Gnome is started, it cannot
|> display ANY character in the UI. I see the icons, but NO TEXT.
|>
|> If I start KDE, I have no problem.
|> If I start any gtk application from KDE, no problem
|>
|> The problem only occurs after gnome-settings-daemon is started:
|>
|> Has anybody seen this too ?
|>
|
| I could recover by doing the following:
| start KDE,
| start gnome-fonts-properties,
| disable everything (antialiasing, hinter, etc...)
| restart gnome
| reenable antialising,
| restart gnome.
|
| strange...
|
|
Thank you, I've got my Gnome desktop back and I'm a happy man.

I noticed while making the changes in gnome-font-properties that the DPI
value was 50, whereas for my setup it should have been 112.
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+G8JX9OxNORLDb/BBNf1QvQ=
=GPgE
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Set title bar name

[Gregory Seidman]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 11:18:13PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
} On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 01:42:46AM -0500, Gregory Seidman wrote:
} > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:16:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
} > [...]
} > } It would be nice if I could restore the window name back to what it was.
} > } I know I can find the current title with xprop and a mouse click.  Any 
} > } way to find if the program is running in a window and if so what the 
} > } current WM_NAME is (without having to click the mouse?).
} > } 
} > } In other words, how can my perl script check if there's a name and what 
} > } it is currently set as?
} > 
} > This works on an xterm (and may work on other terminals, but I don't
} > use 'em):
} > 
} > xprop -id $WINDOWID WM_NAME | sed 's/^[^=]*= "\(.*\)"$/\1/'
} 
} Hum.. That works locally, but not on ssh connections.  $WINDOWID isn't set.

That all depends on how you start your ssh sessions. I generally use:

ssh -X -f [EMAIL PROTECTED] xterm

If you run the xterm on the remote box, displayed via X11 forwarding,
all is well. This requires slightly more bandwidth than the other
option, but the benefits are pretty strong (from my perspective).

} Bill Moseley
} [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--Greg


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Re: Set title bar name

[Bill Moseley]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 01:42:46AM -0500, Gregory Seidman wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:16:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
> [...]
> } It would be nice if I could restore the window name back to what it was.
> } I know I can find the current title with xprop and a mouse click.  Any 
> } way to find if the program is running in a window and if so what the 
> } current WM_NAME is (without having to click the mouse?).
> } 
> } In other words, how can my perl script check if there's a name and what 
> } it is currently set as?
> 
> This works on an xterm (and may work on other terminals, but I don't
> use 'em):
> 
> xprop -id $WINDOWID WM_NAME | sed 's/^[^=]*= "\(.*\)"$/\1/'

Hum.. That works locally, but not on ssh connections.  $WINDOWID isn't set.


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Re: apache restart fails but initial start is ok

[Paul Johnson]

"Benedict Verheyen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Any idea of what could be causing this?

Apache is trying to start before the old apache has died?

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Paul Johnson]

Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The biggest difficulty I have with the postal service is living in a
> place with a shared letterbox. 

Wait, you have a shared letterbox?  Do you have roommates, or is this
an apartment building or something?

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Re: First Time Install Problems

[Paul Johnson]

Tony Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I'm new to Linux and keen to experience the stability of Debian
> particularly.

Welcome to the brave GNU world, my friend!

> I had a limited amount of experience of Red Hat 7 a couple
> of years back and have recently installed Lindows 4.5 which I beleive Is
> based on Debian but appears to be quite restrictive.

Yes, one of the things that makes me steer people away from Lindows
is, by default, you're always root.  Lindows makes roughly the same
mistake that makes a lot of the bugs in Windows possible with that one
step.

> Unfortunately it appears as if my NetGear FA311/312 NIC card is not
> supported by the Linux kernel, it is using the 'National
> Semiconductor Corporation DP83815' driver in Lindows, could someone
> please point me to the correct drivers and a howto on installing
> them ?

There are no sub-gigabit Ethernet adapters that aren't supported by
Linux.  Thank you for the detail, however, this makes it easier for us
to help you.

That being said, a quick search[1] through Google turned up a web
page[2] that seems to indicate that you want the natsemi kernel module.





[1] 
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=DP83815+linux&btnG=Google+Search

[2] http://www.scyld.com/network/ethercard.html

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Re: postgresql configuration and set-up

[BillMoseley]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 09:30:27PM -0500, Tom Allison wrote:
> I'm trying to get debian's postgresql server running on a machine.

> But I'm stuck on what the passwords are for the users I create.

> createdb foo
> createuser foouser

> works just fine.
> But how do I log in to the database foo as user foouser?

Something I'm learning about, too.

A couple of different ways.  One is to su to foouser and run
psql, the other is to use psql -U foouser.

> It says I need a password in the docs,  But I have no clue what it might
> be, I was never asked for one.

You have to tell createuser that you want to supply a
password (-P).

As glenn posted, it seems like you need to setup the
/etc/postresql/pg_hba.conf file.

The pg_hba.conf file is only for authentication.  It's used
for proving that you are who you say you are.  When you
connect from an account you can use "ident" method and not
worry about username and passwords.  If you just run psql it
knows your username.  If you connect with sockets (using -h,
for example) then you would need to have a local ident
program available (like ident2) that would authenticate that
you are indeed the user you say you are.

In the pg_hba.conf file postgres looks for the first
matching line by looking at the type (local or host), what
database you want to connect to, and as what user.  And
maybe from what IP address or range.

Then the final column says how to authenticate.  Ident I
mentioned above.  I use md5 for password authentication.

So, I'd create a user with 

  createuser -P someuser

and it would prompt for a password.  And then use "md5" in
the pg_hba.conf file to say to authenticate me by a
requiring a password.

Now, that authenticates to use the database.  But, the issue
I've been wondering about is this:

I create tables as one user then I want another user to use
those tables (like the web server).  Then I need to GRANT
access to every object in the database to that other user.

I wonder if there's an easier way than having to GRANT every
object -- like a global grant.


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Re: Sharing sound between users

[Paul Johnson]

glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> If someone logs into gnome -they own the esd and no one else can get in
> and use sound, even after they log out, unless someone manually kills
> esd deamon. If there are two X sessions running - only one can access
> sound - Sound seems easier in kernel 2.6 so I'm hoping I can finally
> solve this problem - any help... please?

Get a sound card that allows more than one stream to play at the same
time.  Yours does not.  I don't know what cards do other than mine
does.  It's a Creative SoundBlaster Live! 128.

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Paul Johnson]

Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> "If you are about to post a whole bunch of leaflets through this door
> - STOP! The skip is round the corner to the left. Please save me the
> trouble."

I had similar results in putting a sign on the inside door of my
mailbox where the mailman would see it that read, "This mail box is
for Paul Johnson ONLY.  This means no mail for 'Resident,' 'Our valued
friend at...,' or 'Postal Customer.'"

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Re: Set title bar name

[Gregory Seidman]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:16:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
[...]
} It would be nice if I could restore the window name back to what it was.
} I know I can find the current title with xprop and a mouse click.  Any 
} way to find if the program is running in a window and if so what the 
} current WM_NAME is (without having to click the mouse?).
} 
} In other words, how can my perl script check if there's a name and what 
} it is currently set as?

This works on an xterm (and may work on other terminals, but I don't
use 'em):

xprop -id $WINDOWID WM_NAME | sed 's/^[^=]*= "\(.*\)"$/\1/'

} Bill Moseley
} [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--Greg


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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Paul Johnson]

Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Multiply that by the number of complexes in
> any decent sized metro area and it comes out to at least a few
> truckloads of crap every day that people never even look at yet have
> to pay for the removal and storage/management of.

And if you live in an old building like mine, the junk mail might just
have a brief second life as a door stop for someone who left their keys
in the building and want to step outside for a cigarette.

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Re: community internet cafe with gnome

[Andy M]

I plan to put up a small webpage dedicated for this community effort. Is 
there a place to post 'linux success stories' somewhere?

Andy

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Andy M wrote:

Hi,

I'm running a free community Internet cafe with a bunch of debian 
machines with gnome installed. Visitors log in to a special 'cafe' 
account that doesn't have password. Ideally, every time they log in 
the 'cafe' home directory gets restored from clean backup. This is to 
prevent people from messing up settings and guarantee anonymity.

What would be the best way of doing this? I know that KDE has a 
Xstartup script where I can just rm -rf /home/cafe and then untar the 
backup, but I couldn't find anything like that in gnome.

The reason to choose gnome over KDE was that KDE was very busy - 
almost all visitors to this cafe are very much computer illiterate.

Any help is very appreciated!

Andy


[OT] That's great! Have you recorded your experiences anywhere?

Hugo.




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Re: Installing from iso images.

[Paul Johnson]

bob parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> When I use apt-get install whatever it comes back and asks for cdrom
> #x to be inserted. What I want to know is there some way I can
> divert this requirement to the corresponding iso image mounted on
> /mnt via the loopback device?

Should be able to.  I would try editing the /etc/apt/sources.list to
point to the appropriate place you want to be your "CD," as long as
that location has the tree off one of the CDs.

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Paul Johnson]

Richard Hoskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Your logic fails when you consider postage as a penalty.  Postage is
> payment for a service.  Pre-sorted bulk mail is cheaper to deliver
> than first class, and the postage reflects that.  But you know that.

Commercial speech is not covered by the first amendment in the US.
They can charge advertisers specifically a higher rate and fail to do
so, then wonder why they're always so broke...

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Re: Set title bar name

[Bill Moseley]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:10:22PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:

> Here's a shell script I've been using to set the window title...

Thanks.  Perl seemed like the easiest way to skip leading switches, 
although the "--" (no more switches) doesn't work:

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

for ( @ARGV ) {
   next if /^\-/;
   system("title $_");
   system("/usr/bin/nano @ARGV");
   system("title xterm");
   exit;
}
exec '/usr/bin/nano';

A few extra forks, oh well.

It would be nice if I could restore the window name back to what it was.
I know I can find the current title with xprop and a mouse click.  Any 
way to find if the program is running in a window and if so what the 
current WM_NAME is (without having to click the mouse?).

In other words, how can my perl script check if there's a name and what 
it is currently set as?


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Re: gnus: How to automagically handle GPG

[Paul Johnson]

Kirk Strauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 2004-03-16T18:56:55Z, Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> OK, I can sign and view inline PGP-signed messages, but I see PGP/MIME as
>> an attachment...blarg.  And I don't seem to see it automatically in
>> newsgroups.
>
> That's... unexpected.  Maybe quit and reload Emacs?

That didn't fix it.  Still treats it like an attachment, showing the
link for that one part instead of expanding it like mutt does.

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gnus: mail aliases

[Paul Johnson]

Looking through the gnus manual, I cannot for the life of me find any
information on whether or not gnus even has any method for saving and
retrieving email addresses in any sort of sane manner.

So, long story short, I really have to wonder how to make email
aliases.  I can't be the only person who uses both gnus and
spamcop.net...

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Re: Is Grub going to be official Sarge boot loader?

[Gokul Poduval]

Hello,
  Looks like grub is going to be the default. The beta 3 releast notes 
of the debian installer says

The Debian Installer team is once again ready to announce a beta release
of the Debian sarge installer. New features in beta 3 include:
  - new easy to use partitioner that supports automatic partitioning 
and LVM
  - *grub as the default boot loader on i386*
and so on...

gokul

Raiz-mpx wrote:
After reading Debian Weekly News for March 16th, it mentions that; 
	"This release features the new partitioner that supports automatic
	partitioning and LVM and uses [43]grub as boot-loader on i386."

So does this means that my favorite boot loader will be the official 
Debian boot loader instead of Lilo?

I know its not really that big of deal, as anyone can apt-get Lilo, 
but might save users a little bit of headache due to the boot loader 
issues.

Rthoreau




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Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Gokul Poduval]

You can install putty, which is only a ssh client.

$apt-get install putty

This is what I get in unstable

Package: putty
Priority: optional
Section: net
Installed-Size: 624
Maintainer: Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Architecture: i386
Version: 0.54-2
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk1.2 (>= 
1.2.10-4), libx11-6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxext6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), 
libxi6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0)
Filename: pool/main/p/putty/putty_0.54-2_i386.deb
Size: 256948
MD5sum: cc732b06b98aa8e1bb9fa91535f2a8c9
Description: Telnet/SSH client for X
 This is the Unix port of the popular Windows ssh client, PuTTY. It 
supports flexible terminal setup, mid-session reconfiguration using 
Ctrl-rightclick, multiple X11 authentication protocols, and various 
other interesting things not provided by ssh in an xterm.

Lawrence Lee wrote:
I want to install ssh on an old laptop that has a small hard drive. My
problem is that I think the ssh server is huge, so I just want to install
ssh client. I don't just want to disable the server, but i don't want it
to install ssh server, to save space. I tried googling, but nothing
relavant came up. Is that because you need ssh server for ssh client? Kind
of like you need x-server for x-window?
---
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hills.ccsf.edu/~llee32/index.html



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eterm font brighter ?

[Ross Tsolakidis]

Hi all,

I'm not sure whether this an eterm config or bash config.
I have trouble reading the eterm font used, I can make it larger but it
looks lousy, I just want it brighter.

Does anyone know how to make the font brighter for eterm ?  (and make it
permanent)

Cheers,

--
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our organisation is limited to either the resupply of the attached files or the 
cost of having the attached files resupplied.

Is Grub going to be official Sarge boot loader?

[Raiz-mpx]

After reading Debian Weekly News for March 16th, it mentions that; 
"This release features the new partitioner that supports automatic
partitioning and LVM and uses [43]grub as boot-loader on i386."

So does this means that my favorite boot loader will be the official 
Debian boot loader instead of Lilo?

I know its not really that big of deal, as anyone can apt-get Lilo, 
but might save users a little bit of headache due to the boot loader 
issues.

Rthoreau


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Defoma and TT Font installation scripts

[Doug Breshears]

Hi all,

I have searched high and low to no avail for a "simple" font installer to 
work with Defoma.

After determining there was none (Is their??)
I have built a set of perl scripts that will
1. create a hints file from a fonts.scale file (from ttmkfontdir).

And assuming some changes are desired in the resultant file...

2. Tk viewer to view and change the hints individually, giving the
user a chance to view the font to make an intellegent decision.

If anybody is interested to use/improve and has a place I could post these
I would be happy to do so.
I would also welcome discussion as to how to make it better and the
validity of some of the assumtions I made while coding.

The scripts are still rough and don't interact with defoma directly.
Although that was the plan (with Debian::Defoma::Common), I just did
not get to it. So once the hints file is built it will have to be 
manually registered.

Doug Breshears
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: nvidia and kernel-image-2.6.3-1-k7

[Andrew Schulman]

>> Will I have to build
>> my custom kernel  to build nvidia driver as kernel module?
>> http://home.comcast.net/~andrex/Debian-nVidia/installation.html points
>> to a guide that suggests just this.
> 
> No, that is yet another private "I have read some docs and show you how
> to do it now" - howto document.

Ouch.  Okay, I have to say that module-assistant is a great little tool,
which I wasn't aware of before.  It takes care of most of the installation
drudgery that I spell out in my HOWTO.  It should make everyone's life
easier.

But there's a little more in my HOWTO than that, about which installation
method to use, which kernels are okay, and troubleshooting for that driver. 
The installation instructions are designed to be cut-and-paste easy for a
newbie (tho not as easy as m-a, it's true), and they weren't so easy to
throw together.  Yes, the information is around in the docs, but not all in
one place.  It took me a while to put it all together, and an explicit
start-to-finish set of instructions seems to be filling a need for some
folks.

Also back when I first wrote my HOWTO, there was quite a bit more to it,
because the driver wouldn't work with kernel 2.6, so you had to grab some
patches from minion.de, and I maintained another set of patches to allow
make-kpkg to build it.  But the driver works with kernel 2.6 now, so all of
that went away a few months back.

Anyway, thanks for writing module-assistant.  It takes a lot of the drudgery
out of building and installing those modules-- just what software should do
for us.

Andrew.



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Re: firefox 0.8-3 to 0.8-4 failing

[Chris Metzler]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:30:07 +0800
Gokul Poduval <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>I am using debian unstable, and when I tried apt-get upgrade today, I
>
> received the following error
> 
> Updating mozilla-firefox chrome 
> registry.../usr/sbin/update-mozilla-firefox-chrome: line 58:  1869 
> Segmentation fault  regxpcom >/dev/null
> 
> This is while upgrading from 0.8-3 to 0.8-4. Has anybody else received a
> 
> similar error ?

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=238441

-c


-- 
Chris Metzler   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(remove "snip-me." to email)

"As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I
have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear


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Re: mldonkey-server broken in Sid?

[Lorenzo Prince]

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Thus spake Remi Vanicat:
# Everything seem normal.

Seems perfectly normal when I start the system service.  No indication 
of any errors.  No indication that anything at all may be wrong except 
that there is never a pid for mlnet or mldonkey_server.

# what do telnet localhost 4000 do ?

telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

# and what is at the http://localhost:4080 url ?

Nothing.  The browser can't connect.

PRINCE
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9ozE70tl1pxOMoQCsObTQo4=
=kFKD
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firefox 0.8-3 to 0.8-4 failing

[Gokul Poduval]

Hello,
  I am using debian unstable, and when I tried apt-get upgrade today, I 
received the following error

Updating mozilla-firefox chrome 
registry.../usr/sbin/update-mozilla-firefox-chrome: line 58:  1869 
Segmentation fault  regxpcom >/dev/null

This is while upgrading from 0.8-3 to 0.8-4. Has anybody else received a 
similar error ?

gokul

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Re: ide-scsi emulation not working

[Kent West]

Andreas Janssen wrote:

Hello

Kent West (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

 

I've gotten a new Dell with a cdburner; the burner works fine in WinXP
(yech!), but I can't seem to get it working in Debian.
I've found some hints here and there (the eroaster FAQ, google, etc),
but the info hasn't helped.
I'm running sid, with a stock 2.6.3-1-686 kernel.
   

Then why do you want to use ide-scsi emulation? The kernel and the
userspace programs like cdrecord and cdrdao should be new enough to use
the writer without the emulation. I use my writer with the ide-cd
driver and k3b. All I had to do was to change ownership for /dev/hdc
and /dev/hdd from root.disk to root.cdrom.
 

Because eroaster won't detect the drive, and xcdroast says that using 
ATAPI rather than scsi emulation might result in problems, particularly 
dealing with speed.

In other words, because experience and "documentation" tell me to, and 
I've found no documentation other than what you and Kirk have said that 
indicate that I should be doing otherwise.

As I mentioned, the eroaster FAQ and google did not tell me this info; 
have you got any pointers to documentation that ide-scsi is really 
deprecated?

Thanks!

--
Kent
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Re: postgresql configuration and set-up

[glenn]

I think the secrets in the /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf file.
If your coming from a mysql background, this will seem quite different.
So using your example...
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:su - postgres
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ createdb foo
CREATE DATABASE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ createuser foouser
Shall the new user be allowed to create databases? (y/n) y
Shall the new user be allowed to create more new users? (y/n) y
CREATE USER
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ psql -U foo foouser
psql: FATAL:  IDENT authentication failed for user "foo"

--Im guessing this is the error you got?
-- So..
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ vi /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf
-- Then above all the other entries, till you sort out
-- how you want to use your permissions and security etc
-- put:
-- localfoo foouser trust
-- (this assumes you're trying to access from same box)
then...
su -
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /etc/init.d/postgresql restart
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ psql -U foouser foo

Welcome to psql 7.4.2, the PostgreSQL interactive terminal.
   
   
Type:  \copyright for distribution terms
   \h for help with SQL commands
   \? for help on internal slash commands
   \g or terminate with semicolon to execute query
   \q to quit
   
   
foo=# 

Best of luck
Glenn
On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 13:30, Tom Allison wrote:
> I'm trying to get debian's postgresql server running on a machine.
> 
> But I'm stuck on what the passwords are for the users I create.
> 
> createdb foo
> createuser foouser
> 
> works just fine.
> But how do I log in to the database foo as user foouser?
> It says I need a password in the docs,  But I have no clue what it might 
> be, I was never asked for one.
> 


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Re: K3b mkisofs failing under 2.6.4

[Kevin Coyner]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 04:59:09PM -0700, CW Harris wrote..

> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:05:53PM -0500, Curt Howland wrote:
> > Hi. I just finished upgrading to 2.6.4 in Sid. K3b and its tools
> > worked under 2.4.24 in Sid once I corrected permissions errors that
> > seemed to be everywhere. Could this be the same sort of thing?
> > 
> > When writing a data cd now, it fails saying that mkisofs is
> > reporting "resource temporarily unavailable".
> > 
> > This is the output from the K3b debugging output:
> > 
> > ---start--- System --- K3b Version: 0.10.3
> 
> A quick google indicates this is a reported bug in k3b:
> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73135
> 
> It also indicates this bug was fixed in k3b 0.11.1

Just FYI, but I get the same error messages, and I'm still running
2.4.24.  So it probably is the k3b bug as noted above, not the kernel
you are using.  And like you, I'm using Sid, which means we're both
using the buggy version 0.10.3.  

So it's either wait for k3b to be upgrade to 0.11 in Sid, or do
something more manual to fix it.

Kevin


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Re: Installing from iso images.

[bob parker]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:44, Pigeon wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:00:41AM +1100, bob parker wrote:
> > Because I supply various Linuxes to members of my lug, I have quite a few
> > iso images on hand including the 7 for Woody r2, and soon I will have the
> > 13 for Sarge plus the dvd iso images.
> >
> > When I use apt-get install whatever it comes back and asks for cdrom #x
> > to be inserted. What I want to know is there some way I can divert this
> > requirement to the corresponding iso image mounted on /mnt via the
> > loopback device?
>
> If you're loopback-mounting individual isos as required, I think you
> can just switch to another VC and symlink /dev/cdrom to the mounted
> image. If you've got them mounted all the time, you can stick deb file:
> statements in /etc/apt/sources.list pointed at the mounted images.
> (Can't remember the syntax off the top of my head but a combination of
> man sources.list and experimentation should get you there :-) )

So far my experimenting + man sources.list has done no good at all. I'll try 
your first idea if I have to, but I made a tiny script to take care of the 
mounting and unmounting of the 7 isos so I'd like to get it going if I could.
The examples on the man page for using file: go nowhere.

Cheers
Bob


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Re: Set title bar name

[Ken Irving]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 04:59:45PM -0800, Bill Moseley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...  Is there a program to set
> the title bar name that I can use as a wrapper script for nano -- set it
> to the file I'm editing, start nano, then on exit reset to "xterm".

Here's a shell script I've been using to set the window title...

$ cat `which title`
#!/bin/sh
# 27jul99 kci, 07feb2000, by Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

if [ "$1" == "-h" ]; then # online help message
echo \
' Set X terminal title bar
 Usage:
 $ title any text   ... specify a title
 $ title... use/restore the default title
 Export the TITLE shell variable for the default title, e.g,:
 $ export TITLE=...; title'
exit
fi

if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then
if [ -z "$TITLE" ]; then
TITLE='no title (see title -h)'
fi
echo -ne "\033]0;${TITLE}\007"
exit
fi

echo -ne "\033]0;[EMAIL PROTECTED]"

-- 
Ken Irving, Research Analyst, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 907-474-6152
Water and Environmental Research Center
Institute of Northern Engineering
University of Alaska, Fairbanks


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Re: s3, not s3virge

[bob parker]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:05, Ted Parks wrote:
> I posted a query about the s3virge driver. After some responses and more
> research, I need either an s3_svga or xf86-s3 driver. The card is an
> s3trio64+.
>
> I am new to Debian. How do I apt-get what I need to run the s3_svga
> driver, or, failing that, the xf86-s3 driver?

Ted, That does make a little more sense. I personally have not had trouble 
with the S3Virge but plenty with s3Trio.

apt-get install xserver-s3

Your config file will be 
/etc/X11/XF86Config
not 
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4

HTH 
Bob Parker


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Re: Installing from iso images.

[bob parker]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:38, Brian Brazil wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:00:41AM +1100, bob parker wrote:
> > Because I supply various Linuxes to members of my lug, I have quite a few
> > iso images on hand including the 7 for Woody r2, and soon I will have the
> > 13 for Sarge plus the dvd iso images.
> >
> > When I use apt-get install whatever it comes back and asks for cdrom #x
> > to be inserted. What I want to know is there some way I can divert this
> > requirement to the corresponding iso image mounted on /mnt via the
> > loopback device?
>
> Yip, that's my setup as my systems have no net access. Hence I can't
> look at the right now. Loopback mount(avoid spaces) and then add something
> like: /mnt/Debian-3.0/CD1/pool woody main contrib non-free
>

apt-get does not barf but it just ignores the /mnt lines and demands a cd.

Here's /etc/sources.list
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD1/ pool woody unstable main contrib non-US/contrib 
non-US/main non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD2/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD3/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD4/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD5/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD6/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb file:/mnt/Debian3.0/CD7/ unstable main contrib non-free

deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r1 _Woody_ - Official i386 Binary-7 
(20021218)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main
deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r1 _Woody_ - Official i386 Binary-6 
(20021218)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main


I've tried various combinations of the stuff above to no avail.

Here's the result of mount:
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-1.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD1 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop0)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-2.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD2 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop1)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-3.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD3 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop2)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-4.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD4 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop3)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-5.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD5 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop4)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-6.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD6 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop5)
/data/isos/debian/i386/woody/debian-30r2-i386-binary-7.iso on 
/mnt/Debian3.0/CD7 type iso9660 (rw,loop=/dev/loop6)

> I'd give the exact line but as I said I don't have it handy. Note that
> loop may only allow 8 mounts but that can be handled by a kernel boot
> parameter/module option (max_loop=256 IIRC).

I reckon when I get to Sarge I'll be just using the 2 dvd isos :-)

Any other ideas.

Thanks
Bob


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postgresql configuration and set-up

[Tom Allison]

I'm trying to get debian's postgresql server running on a machine.

But I'm stuck on what the passwords are for the users I create.

createdb foo
createuser foouser
works just fine.
But how do I log in to the database foo as user foouser?
It says I need a password in the docs,  But I have no clue what it might 
be, I was never asked for one.

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Re: What can't sudo do?

[Gregory K. Johnson]

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 02:52:49PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
[snip]
> If I use sudo (to
> try and provide most admin functions) then I would worry because my
> normal account then has more privileges that I'd want.  Then someone only
> need to gain access to my account instead of root.
[snip]

I assume you're not using the NOPASSWD tag; I dislike it for the same
reasons you seem to. When not using NOPASSWD, you're prompted for a
password only if 15 minutes has passed since you last used sudo. (The
delay is configurable; see sudoers(5) for timestamp_timeout.) When
you're done, just run 'sudo -k' to invalidate the timestamp as if 15
minutes had elapsed. After this, no one can use your sudo privileges
without re-entering the password.

-- 
Gregory K. Johnson
favorites: Vim, Mutt, LaTeX, Zsh, screen or Fluxbox, Python or C,
   Linux, Debian, the GPL, man pages, RPN, HP 48/49, PSION 5mx


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Re: What's the tool to set /ect/rc.* links?

[stan]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 12:31:06AM +, Tom Badran wrote:
> stan wrote:
> >I've forgoten what the tool to set the startup links in teh 
> >/etc/rc.* directories is.
> >
> >I was thinking it was update_rc, but that doesn't seem to exist.
> >Can someone refersh my memory? man -k seesm to be failing me here.
> >
> 
> Its update-rc.d
> 
Thank you sir.

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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apache restart fails but initial start is ok

[Benedict Verheyen]

Hi,

i'm using apache version 1.3.29 with openssl v0.9.7c.
When i boot and access any of my sites or links (as in configures in 
httpd.conf), all works fine.
But when i stop apache and restart it, no site works.
I just get a message (via the browser) that the connection was
disconnected. Weird as i don't see anything in the error logs
of apache or /var/log/messages.
It's not firewall related as it works when i first boot.
After a reboot, it all works fine again.
Could this have something to do with the SSL certificates?
After i try a /etc/init.d/apache start, i also do not 
got any error messages and my config checks out fine.

Any idea of what could be causing this?

Thanks,
Benedict



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Re: Set title bar name

[Cameron Hutchison]

Once upon a time Bill Moseley said...
> When I run vim from an xterm session it sets the name of the file I'm
> editing.  I'd like to do this with nano, too.  Is there a program to set
> the title bar name that I can use as a wrapper script for nano -- set it
> to the file I'm editing, start nano, then on exit reset to "xterm".

function xtitle()
{
  echo -ne "\E]2;$1\007";
}

I haven't tested this recently since I got rid of my title bars a while
ago.


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Re: Set title bar name

[forum]

> When I run vim from an xterm session it sets the name of the file I'm
> editing.  I'd like to do this with nano, too.  Is there a program to set
> the title bar name that I can use as a wrapper script for nano -- set it
> to the file I'm editing, start nano, then on exit reset to "xterm".

Unless I'm mistaken, the title bar on a terminal can be set with terminal 
control sequences (for VT100 or whatever)... try searching google for a 
reference of such codes, maybe that will show you how you can use echo with 
the appropriate escape characters to change the title.

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Set title bar name

[Bill Moseley]

When I run vim from an xterm session it sets the name of the file I'm
editing.  I'd like to do this with nano, too.  Is there a program to set
the title bar name that I can use as a wrapper script for nano -- set it
to the file I'm editing, start nano, then on exit reset to "xterm".




-- 
Bill Moseley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[James Keasley]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Ramiro Aceves wrote:
>
>> Kent West escribió:
>>
>>> [KDE not honoring system or user PATH statements]
>>>
>> I had same problem as yours, I found that in my Debian system  PATH
>> was set at /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
>> Hope this helps.

> would expect. So it's only when KDE is started from KDM (and
> presumably Gnome from GDM according to your experience) that the
> system/user path is ignored in favor of KDE's choice.

Piggy-backing Kent's post, as I can't seem to find Ramiro's post.

For setting you path, and any start up programs on a per user basis 
using gnome and GDM, put them in ~/.gnomerc[1], took a bit of digging 
to find this, but it is all working out properly now. 

[1] This doesn't appear to be standard behaviour from what I have 
read, apparently .profile is the standard location, but the script
/etc/X11/gdm/Sessions/Gnome that is installed by Sarge doesn't 
appear to use this, prefering .gnomerc

- -- 
James   jamesk[at]homeric[dot]co[dot]uk

Don't let your mind wander -- it's too little to be let out alone.
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apt-get upgrade confusion.

[Rolf]

Hello
Just when I thought I had my head around the apt-get mechanism when dealing 
with a mixing of stable and testing (and unstable) packages, this problem 
turns up.

Sources list contains stable and testing and unstable references. 
/etc/apt/preferences contains 3 pins:

Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian,a=stable
Pin-Priority: 900
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian,a=testing
Pin-Priority: 400
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian,a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 50
if I do an apt-get update everything goes smoothly, if then an apt-get 
upgrade, a miscellaneous bunch of packages want to get upgraded to the 
testing version.

The only logical answer is that some package install I have done requires 
these updated versions and so it is wanting to it.

But the system is working fine, the only packages I've recently added work 
fine, apt-get check reports no problems. apt-cache policy package-name says 
sensible things.

If it is the case that these package versions are required due to some 
other dependency or relationship, how do I find out what that is?

If not (a) how can I find out why it wants to do this and (b) how do I stop 
it, unless it is recommended that I let it do it?

Many thanks.

rolf.

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Re: What's the tool to set /ect/rc.* links?

[Travis Crump]

stan wrote:
I've forgoten what the tool to set the startup links in teh 
/etc/rc.* directories is.

I was thinking it was update_rc, but that doesn't seem to exist.
Can someone refersh my memory? man -k seesm to be failing me here.
'mv', though you can use update-rc.d for local scripts.


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Re: What's the tool to set /ect/rc.* links?

[Tom Badran]

stan wrote:
I've forgoten what the tool to set the startup links in teh 
/etc/rc.* directories is.

I was thinking it was update_rc, but that doesn't seem to exist.
Can someone refersh my memory? man -k seesm to be failing me here.
Its update-rc.d

Tom

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What's the tool to set /ect/rc.* links?

[stan]

I've forgoten what the tool to set the startup links in teh 
/etc/rc.* directories is.

I was thinking it was update_rc, but that doesn't seem to exist.
Can someone refersh my memory? man -k seesm to be failing me here.

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: printing problem (mozilla 100% CPU)

[user list]

Are you using CUPS? I am on all my Debian machines. 

Art

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:34:58AM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Arthur H. Edwards wrote:
> >Just FYI, Netscape does not have the same problem. This is surprising,
> >as they come from the same code tree. Has there been any progress here?
> >
> >Art Edwards
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 09:16:55PM -0500, Ralph Katz wrote:
> >
> >>Patrick,
> >>
> >>It's a bug.
> >>
> >>#213004: Mozilla runs away with CPU usage and freezes when trying to print
> >>http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=213004
> >>
> >>My solution was to use Mozilla-Firebird, which is a nicer browser as 
> >>well.  Happy printing.
> 
> Of course with package mozilla 2:1.4-4 you pick up all the bugs that 
> that version of mozilla has.
> I found 2 in bugzilla searching on "loop print":
> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196306
> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211813
> but they referred to 1.3b and 1.5a, don't know if this would effect this 
> package.
> 
> Netscape is quite something else: it is indeed based on mozilla, but it 
> all depends on what version of netscape.
> 
> I download the latest release of mozilla and compile that with xft, it 
> avoids all such problems.
> 
> As to "nice", de gustibus non est disputandum...
> 
> Hugo.
> 
> 
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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Werner Mahr]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Dienstag, 16. März 2004 08:01 schrieb Paul Johnson:

> > in Example you need only to download one MTA, because of the conflicts. I
> > think you can save at least 2 CDs if you download only one of every
> > conflicting Package.
>
> And now you see exactly why jigdo is the preferred CD fetching method.

I think every one should prefer netinstall.

- -- 
MfG usw.

Werner Mahr
registered Linuxuser: 295882
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Y4mXVHIkUwMGHl1LrizwtLk=
=JMVg
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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Werner Mahr]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Montag, 15. März 2004 23:26 schrieb Number Six:
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 11:03:05PM +0100, Werner Mahr wrote:
> > in Example you need only to download one MTA, because of the conflicts. I
> > think you can save at least 2 CDs if you download only one of every
> > conflicting Package.
>
> A user might not know which she wants, first installing the one and then
> the other.  It might be helpful to provide .jigdo's that partition the
> archives into mutually non-conflicting subsets, so this hypothetical
> user could start trying things sooner.

Then you have Image names like:

Apache, PHP, MySQL, Postfix
Apache, PHP, MySQL, Exim

and so on. The time to see what Image you need, is at least the to donwload 
2-3 CDs.

- -- 
MfG usw.

Werner Mahr
registered Linuxuser: 295882
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imuMktA5sBKcxxc6DO59shU=
=jSKf
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Re: K3b mkisofs failing under 2.6.4

[CW Harris]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:05:53PM -0500, Curt Howland wrote:
> Hi. I just finished upgrading to 2.6.4 in Sid. K3b and its tools worked 
> under 2.4.24 in Sid once I corrected permissions errors that seemed to 
> be everywhere. Could this be the same sort of thing?
> 
> When writing a data cd now, it fails saying that mkisofs is reporting 
> "resource temporarily unavailable".
> 
> This is the output from the K3b debugging output:
> 
> ---start---
> System
> ---
> K3b Version: 0.10.3

A quick google indicates this is a reported bug in k3b:
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73135

It also indicates this bug was fixed in k3b 0.11.1

HTH

-- 

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---
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Re: debian newbie...

[David]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 11:09:06AM +0200, Mixo Shiburi wrote:

> Now that I am on the network, it seet that my machine cant access 
> externel ftp servers.
> In fact, I cannot ping any machine outsing out network work, I get
>  ping: sendto: Network is unreachable
>  ping: wrote ftp.debian.org 64 chars, ret=-1
> 
> But, from host I get:
>  mixo:/home/mixo# host ftp.debian.org
>  ftp.debian.org has address 128.101.80.131
>  ftp.debian.org has address 208.185.25.38
> 
> I take it my machine has a firewall which has blocked many ports by default,
> How do I get my machine to access ftp and ping server outside our network.
> 
> Http is not a problem as we use a proxy.

One remote possibility you might look at is that your ISP _could_ be
blocking some packets.  I can't see them blocking ftp, but my ISP (as
well as some others, I've heard) were blocking pings, especially for a
while, because of the viruses.  This is probably not your case,
especially with ftp, but if all else fails, you might check into this.
As you said above, however, you might need to check your firewall.


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K3b mkisofs failing under 2.6.4

[Curt Howland]

Hi. I just finished upgrading to 2.6.4 in Sid. K3b and its tools worked 
under 2.4.24 in Sid once I corrected permissions errors that seemed to 
be everywhere. Could this be the same sort of thing?

When writing a data cd now, it fails saying that mkisofs is reporting 
"resource temporarily unavailable".

This is the output from the K3b debugging output:

---start---
System
---
K3b Version: 0.10.3
KDE Version: 3.2.1
QT Version:  3.2.3

cdrecord comand:
---
/usr/bin/cdrecord -v gracetime=2 dev=0,0,0 speed=8 -dao 
driveropts=burnfree -eject -data -tsize=277683s - 

mkisofs
---
277683
/usr/bin/mkisofs: Resource temporarily unavailable. cannot fwrite 
32768*1

mkisofs comand:
---
/usr/bin/mkisofs -gui -graft-points -V K3b data project -volset  -A K3B 
THE CD KREATOR VERSION 0.10.3 (C) 2003 SEBASTIAN TRUEG AND THE K3B TEAM 
-P  -p K3b - Version 0.10.3 -sysid LINUX -volset-size 1 -volset-seqno 1 
-sort /home/curt/.kde/tmp-dierdre/k3b6wvtmb.tmp -r 
-hide-list /home/curt/.kde/tmp-dierdre/k3b1gWVqa.tmp -J 
-hide-joliet-list /home/curt/.kde/tmp-dierdre/k3bwbzgja.tmp -l 
-iso-level 2 -path-list /home/curt/.kde/tmp-dierdre/k3bUvcVac.tmp 
---end---


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Re: First Time Install Problems

[Chris Metzler]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:35:47 +
Tony Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On my first attempt to install 3.0 r2 'WOODY' from CD, i couldn't get
> past installing the base kernel. I had a more joy second time round and
> got as far as getting KDE to load through X. Unfortunately it appears as
> 
>   if my NetGear FA311/312 NIC card is not supported by the Linux kernel,
>   
> it is using the 'National Semiconductor Corporation DP83815' driver in 
> Lindows, could someone please point me to the correct drivers and a 
> howto on installing them ?

If your NIC was not identified by the install . . .during the install, you
should have reached a point where you could take the step of "Configure
Device Driver Modules."  That's where you select drivers for hardware
you want.  The driver you want is called "natsemi".

If you've already finished the install, then you want to use the
command "modprobe" to install the module into the currently running
kernel.  To make sure that it's used in future boots, put it into
/etc/modules, which contains a list of kernel modules that should
be installed at boot-time.


> I also noticed that I had no sound as arts couldn't load from X. I'm 
> using SIS SI7018 pci audio integrated into the mainboard which is using 
> the '3.8.1a-980706 (ALSAv0.9.8 emulation code)' in Lindows. Any help 
> would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "aRts couldn't load from X".  I guess you're
saying that when KDE started, it didn't start the aRts daemon?  If so,
it's worth hunting around and finding what the error message was when it
tried to start it.  Or, you could start it manually and see what it tells
you.  You shouldn't need aRts to make sound, though -- KDE applications
like to talk to the sound drivers through aRts, but others don't need to.
Just try playing a WAV file using "play filename.wav" and see what
happens.  Or try playing a file in xmms (first making sure that xmms
is set up to use the ALSA or OSS output plugin, via Options -->
Preferences --> Audio I/O Plugins --> Output Plugin (within xmms).

-c


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have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear


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Description: PGP signature

Re: ide-scsi emulation not working

[Andreas Janssen]

Hello

Kent West (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> I've gotten a new Dell with a cdburner; the burner works fine in WinXP
> (yech!), but I can't seem to get it working in Debian.
> 
> I've found some hints here and there (the eroaster FAQ, google, etc),
> but the info hasn't helped.
> 
> I'm running sid, with a stock 2.6.3-1-686 kernel.

Then why do you want to use ide-scsi emulation? The kernel and the
userspace programs like cdrecord and cdrdao should be new enough to use
the writer without the emulation. I use my writer with the ide-cd
driver and k3b. All I had to do was to change ownership for /dev/hdc
and /dev/hdd from root.disk to root.cdrom.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[Kent West]

Ramiro Aceves wrote:

Kent West escribió:

[KDE not honoring system or user PATH statements]

I had same problem as yours, I found that in my Debian system  PATH 
was set at /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
Hope this helps.


Indeed. In /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc:

# The PATH for the Session program. Default is
# /bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin
And my path:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/kde3/kdm:> echo $PATH
/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin
Looks like a match.

I did another test; when KDE is started via startx, the path is as I 
would expect. So it's only when KDE is started from KDM (and presumably 
Gnome from GDM according to your experience) that the system/user path 
is ignored in favor of KDE's choice.

I don't guess this could actually be considered a bug, but it does seem 
wrong.

/Rant
A few days ago I posted Off-Topic that the new KDE was pretty nice. Now 
that I've used it for a few days, I'm beginning to remember why I like 
icewm so well. Little things, like this, and like the Debian menus 
disappearing off the KDE menus so you can't find "non-KDE-approved" 
apps, etc.
/endRant

Thanks for the clue!

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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[Kent West]

Kent West wrote:

Kent West wrote:

According to "man bash",

When  bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, or as a non-inter-
   active shell with the --login option, it first reads and 
executes  com-
   mands  from  the file /etc/profile, if that file exists.  
After reading
   that file, it looks for ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, and 
~/.profile,
   in  that order, and reads and executes commands from the 
first one that
   exists and is readable.




In /etc/profile are these statements (they're the only path-related 
statements in this file):

PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games"
export PATH




I do not have a ~/.bash_login nor a ~/.profile. There are no 
path-related statements in my ~/.bashrc, and the only path-related 
statements in my ~/.bash_profile are these:

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
fi




(Interestingly, I don't see an "export PATH".)

But at a BASH prompt, this is the result:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk> echo $PATH
/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin




which does not have my ~/bin, nor the same path as defined in 
/etc/profile. Where is my path being set then?

I don't have the solution yet, but I have discovered that it's 
KDE-related. If I Ctrl-Alt-F2 to a virtual console, I get the path I 
would expect. If I start X with startx/icewm instead of KDM/KDE, I get 
the path I expect. I'll try KDM/icewm and see what that does.

It's definitely related to KDE (v 3.2, in sid, on a 2.6.x kernel); I can 
start icewm from KDM and the path is as I would expect.

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First Time Install Problems

[Tony Anderson]

Hi all,

I'm new to Linux and keen to experience the stability of Debian
particularly. I had a limited amount of experience of Red Hat 7 a couple
of years back and have recently installed Lindows 4.5 which I beleive Is
based on Debian but appears to be quite restrictive.
On my first attempt to install 3.0 r2 'WOODY' from CD, i couldn't get
past installing the base kernel. I had a more joy second time round and
got as far as getting KDE to load through X. Unfortunately it appears as 
 if my NetGear FA311/312 NIC card is not supported by the Linux kernel, 
it is using the 'National Semiconductor Corporation DP83815' driver in 
Lindows, could someone please point me to the correct drivers and a 
howto on installing them ?

I also noticed that I had no sound as arts couldn't load from X. I'm 
using SIS SI7018 pci audio integrated into the mainboard which is using 
the '3.8.1a-980706 (ALSAv0.9.8 emulation code)' in Lindows. Any help 
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Tony
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Re: ide-scsi emulation not working

[Kirk Strauser]

At 2004-03-16T21:56:50Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I've gotten a new Dell with a cdburner; the burner works fine in WinXP
> (yech!), but I can't seem to get it working in Debian.

> When I run "sudo xcdroaster", it scans the bus and finds the ATAPI CD
> Writer, and then later warns me that this is not the recommended way
> to go and I need to get ide-scsi emulation working.

ide-scsi is deprecated.  The xcdroast warning will probably go away soon.
I've been burning CD-Rs using native ATAPI mode with much success,
particularly since I can use hdparm to tune the drive (set DMA, etc.)
whereas I couldn't when I was using ide-scsi.
-- 
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In Googlis non est, ergo non est.


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Re: ide-scsi emulation not working

[Kevin Bailey]

I too recently got my CRX216E working, although with 2.4.
Forgive me if it's different.

I have this in lilo.conf, note the ide-

append="hdc=ide-scsi"

By the looks of your lsmod, ide-cd grabbed the CD-ROM
so hopefully this is your problem.

I had the ignore in /etc/modules.conf but took it out.
It didn't seem to be necessary.

Here's my dmesg:

hdc: SONY CD-RW CRX216E, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
...
hdc: attached ide-scsi driver.
scsi2 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices
  Vendor: SONY  Model: CD-RW  CRX216ERev: PD01
  Type:   CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02

krb

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 03:56:50PM -0600, Kent West wrote:
> I've gotten a new Dell with a cdburner; the burner works fine in WinXP 
> (yech!), but I can't seem to get it working in Debian.
> 
> I've found some hints here and there (the eroaster FAQ, google, etc), 
> but the info hasn't helped.
> 
> I'm running sid, with a stock 2.6.3-1-686 kernel.


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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[Kent West]

Kent West wrote:

According to "man bash",

When  bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, or as a non-inter-
   active shell with the --login option, it first reads and 
executes  com-
   mands  from  the file /etc/profile, if that file exists.  
After reading
   that file, it looks for ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, and 
~/.profile,
   in  that order, and reads and executes commands from the first 
one that
   exists and is readable.


In /etc/profile are these statements (they're the only path-related 
statements in this file):

PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games"
export PATH


I do not have a ~/.bash_login nor a ~/.profile. There are no 
path-related statements in my ~/.bashrc, and the only path-related 
statements in my ~/.bash_profile are these:

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
fi


(Interestingly, I don't see an "export PATH".)

But at a BASH prompt, this is the result:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk> echo $PATH
/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin


which does not have my ~/bin, nor the same path as defined in 
/etc/profile. Where is my path being set then?

I don't have the solution yet, but I have discovered that it's 
KDE-related. If I Ctrl-Alt-F2 to a virtual console, I get the path I 
would expect. If I start X with startx/icewm instead of KDM/KDE, I get 
the path I expect. I'll try KDM/icewm and see what that does.

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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[Kent West]

Werner Mahr wrote:

Am Sonntag, 14. März 2004 21:10 schrieb Kent West:

 

statements in my ~/.bash_profile are these:
   

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
   PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
fi
 

which does not have my ~/bin
   

If you don't have this directory, it is not set. Is in this file any other 
file sourced, or does any other file source this one? Maybe in that other 
file PATH is exported.

 

nor the same path as defined in
/etc/profile. Where is my path being set then?
   

Look in /etc/enviroment.
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk:> cat /etc/environment

LANG=en_US

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Re: PATH confusion in BASH

[Kent West]

Rodrigo Agerri wrote:

Kent West wrote:
 

In /etc/profile are these statements (they're the only path-related 
statements in this file):

   

PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games"
export PATH
 

I do not have a ~/.bash_login nor a ~/.profile. There are no 
path-related statements in my ~/.bashrc, and the only path-related 
statements in my ~/.bash_profile are these:

   

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
  PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
fi
 

(Interestingly, I don't see an "export PATH".)
   

Did you look at /etc/bash.bashrc?
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk:> cat /etc/bash.bashrc
# System-wide .bashrc file for interactive bash(1) shells.
# If running interactively, then:
if [ "$PS1" ]; then
   # set a fancy prompt (overwrite the one in /etc/profile)
   PS1='[EMAIL PROTECTED]:\w\$ '
   # check the window size after each command and, if necessary,
   # update the values of LINES and COLUMNS.
   shopt -s checkwinsize
   # enable bash completion in interactive shells
   #if [ -f /etc/bash_completion ]; then
   #. /etc/bash_completion
   #fi
fi


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Re: Installing Win4Lin On Sarge

[glenn]

I've got it running on sid, but running 2.4.18 (custom obviously) - from
memory there's a section on the netraverse site for downloading kernel
patches, which included some debian patches. 

I don't recall requiring alien to conver the rpm file.
 - Get back to me if you need me to ferret out more specific info.

Glenn

On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 05:28, Chris Gray wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have purchased the latest version of Win4Lin and am trying to get it
> running under Sarge. My Kernel version is Linux 2.4.22-1-386. Has anyone
> else been able to get this to install and run correctly?
> 
> I have searched prior posts and seen numerous references to an .rpm
> (Win4Lin-5.3.15b-d.i386.rpm) that could be converted with alien to patch
> the kernel. But those references are more than a year old and no such
> rpms seem to still be available.
> 
> Any help GREATLY appreciated...
> 
> Chris G.
> 
> 
> 


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Sharing sound between users

[glenn]

Hi - hoping someone can set me straight here...
I've been using linux since kernel 1.2 on pretty much a daily basis,
though I haven't garnished lots of expertise as I've never had to get
much beyond the 'keen user' level - either things just work, or I let
them go. One thing I've _never_ got working satisfactorily is sound -
How the hell do I get sound to work across a number of users
simultanously? 
If someone logs into gnome -they own the esd and no one else can get in
and use sound, even after they log out, unless someone manually kills
esd deamon. If there are two X sessions running - only one can access
sound - Sound seems easier in kernel 2.6 so I'm hoping I can finally
solve this problem - any help... please?
Glenn


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ide-scsi emulation not working

[Kent West]

I've gotten a new Dell with a cdburner; the burner works fine in WinXP 
(yech!), but I can't seem to get it working in Debian.

I've found some hints here and there (the eroaster FAQ, google, etc), 
but the info hasn't helped.

I'm running sid, with a stock 2.6.3-1-686 kernel.

lsmod reports:
Module  Size  Used by
sg 38880  0
snd_mixer_oss  20064  0
md5 3872  1
ipv6  255264  10
rtc12696  0
ohci_hcd   19332  0
snd_intel8x0   34376  0
snd_ac97_codec 63492  1 snd_intel8x0
snd_pcm   101316  1 snd_intel8x0
snd_timer  25956  1 snd_pcm
gameport4704  1 snd_intel8x0
snd_page_alloc 12228  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
snd_mpu401_uart 7840  1 snd_intel8x0
snd_rawmidi24928  1 snd_mpu401_uart
snd_seq_device  8072  1 snd_rawmidi
snd55428  8 
snd_mixer_oss,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
hw_random   5332  0
ehci_hcd   25764  0
usbmouse5568  0
tsdev   7264  0
uhci_hcd   33136  0
mousedev   10004  1
joydev 10336  0
evdev   9856  0
i810_audio 33844  1
ac97_codec 19084  1 i810_audio
soundcore  10208  3 snd,i810_audio
ide_scsi   15236  0
e1000  84804  0
parport_pc 35244  1
lp 11556  0
parport44520  2 parport_pc,lp
sr_mod 16612  0
i830   74572  26
intel_agp  18460  1
i810fb 32864  0
vgastate   10016  1 i810fb
agpgart32424  3 intel_agp
hid33248  0
usbcore   106684  7 ohci_hcd,ehci_hcd,usbmouse,uhci_hcd,hid
ide_cd 42468  0
cdrom  39008  2 sr_mod,ide_cd
ext3  121064  11
jbd62072  1 ext3
mbcache 9220  1 ext3
sd_mod 16736  0
ata_piix8036  0
libata 40928  1 ata_piix,[permanent]
scsi_mod  118136  5 sg,ide_scsi,sr_mod,sd_mod,libata
ide_disk   18560  13
ide_detect  1088  0
via82cxxx  14300  0
trm290  4996  0
triflex 5412  0
slc90e668584  0
sis551316872  0
siimage14148  0
serverworks13140  0
sc1200  8936  0
rz1000  2912  0
piix   12768  1
pdc202xx_old   16732  0
opti621 4868  0
ns87415 4968  0
hpt366 21764  0
hpt34x  5792  0
generic 3744  0
cy82c6934964  0
cs5530  6920  0
cs5520  6280  0
cmd64x 12604  0
amd74xx14108  0
alim15x3   12332  0
aec62xx10332  0
pdc202xx_new   12700  0
ide_core  157644  28 
ide_scsi,ide_cd,ide_disk,ide_detect,via82cxxx,trm290,triflex,slc90e66,sis5513,siimage,serverworks,sc1200,rz1000,piix,pdc202xx_old,opti621,ns87415,hpt366,hpt34x,generic,cy82c693,cs5530,cs5520,cmd64x,amd74xx,alim15x3,aec62xx,pdc202xx_new
unix   28368  236
font8320  0
cfbcopyarea 3968  1 i810fb
cfbimgblt   3168  1 i810fb
cfbfillrect 3904  1 i810fb

I've tried adding
 append="hdc=scsi"
to lilo.conf (and rerunning lilo and rebooting).
I've tried adding
 options ide-cd ignore="hdc"
to /etc/modutils/actions
and running "update-modules" and rebooting.
Here's the relevant portions of dmesg:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk:> dmesg | grep hd
   ide0: BM-DMA at 0xffa0-0xffa7, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
   ide1: BM-DMA at 0xffa8-0xffaf, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
hda: ST380011A, ATA DISK drive
hdc: SONY CD-RW CRX216E, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hda: max request size: 1024KiB
hda: 15625 sectors (8 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=16383/255/63, 
UDMA(100)
hdc: ATAPI 48X CD-ROM CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33)

Tue Mar 16 15:52:48
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk:> dmesg | grep scsi
scsi0 : ata_piix
scsi1 : ata_piix
Tue Mar 16 15:52:52
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk:> dmesg | grep ide
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
   ide0: BM-DMA at 0xffa0-0xffa7, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
   ide1: BM-DMA at 0xffa8-0xffaf, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
/dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: p1 p2 p3 < p5 p6 p7 p8 p9 p10 p11 p12 
p13 p14 p15 > p4

When I run "sudo eroaster" and click on "Detect Reader" or "Detect 
Writer", I get this error:
 Couldn't detect your reader / recorder !
 Please make sure that you are r

Re: Fwd: Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:37:38PM +0100, Tom wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 16. März 2004 21:28 schrieb Tom:
> > * [16/03/2004 21:23] Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > I don't know about Sarge or Sid, but if you use Woody you are only
> > > asked if you want to run the ssh server. You cannot deinstall it
> > > without deinstalling the client as well - they are in the same
> > > package.
> >
> > Although I agree with a previous poster (<300kb isn't what I call a
> > waste of space), there are alternatives. Putty, for example.

Only for the client.

> > $ apt-cache search putty
> > pterm - PuTTY terminal emulator
> > putty - Telnet/SSH client for X
> > putty-tools - command-line tools for SSH, SCP, and SFTP
> 
> I agree on the waste of space thing, however:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search putty
> vbox3 - voice response system for isdn4linux
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
> 
> Seems there is no putty package in Woody, so you would have to compile 
> it or get it from somewhere else.

  http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/putty/

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Fwd: Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Tom]

- Forwarded message from Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:35:43 +0100
User-Agent: KMail/1.6
From: Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ssh client and ssh server

Hello

Am Dienstag, 16. März 2004 21:28 schrieb Tom:
> * [16/03/2004 21:23] Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I don't know about Sarge or Sid, but if you use Woody you are only
> > asked if you want to run the ssh server. You cannot deinstall it
> > without deinstalling the client as well - they are in the same
> > package.
>
> Although I agree with a previous poster (<300kb isn't what I call a
> waste of space), there are alternatives. Putty, for example.
>
> $ apt-cache search putty
> pterm - PuTTY terminal emulator
> putty - Telnet/SSH client for X
> putty-tools - command-line tools for SSH, SCP, and SFTP

I agree on the waste of space thing, however:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache search putty
vbox3 - voice response system for isdn4linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$

Seems there is no putty package in Woody, so you would have to compile 
it or get it from somewhere else.

(if you wanted to answer to the list instead to me, feel free to forward 
this message there)

best regards
Andreas Janssen

- End forwarded message -

Indeed, the list was where I wanted to send the message. :-)

Greets,
Tom


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Downgrading a few testing packages on a stable system

[Rich Stanton]

Hi,

I need some help sorting out a bit of a mess I've created.  I have a
stable (woody) system.  I use cups with gimpprint to print, and wanted a
driver for a newer printer which apparently is supported in newer versions
of gimpprint.  I therefore installed gimpprint from testing.  That went
fine, except when I try & add printers through the cups web interface,
after choosing the printer name I get a '404' error.  I therefore decided
to try & go back to my previous version of gimpprint.

Here's what apt did when I first installed the testing version of gimpprint:

debian:~# apt-get -t testing install cupsys-driver-gimpprint -u
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libc6 libc6-dev libcupsimage2 libcupsys2 libdb1-compat libgcrypt1
  libgimpprint1 libgnutls7 liblzo1 libpng12-0 libtasn1-0 linux-kernel-headers
  locales zlib1g
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libnss-db
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libcupsimage2 libdb1-compat libgcrypt1 libgnutls7 liblzo1 libpng12-0
  libtasn1-0 linux-kernel-headers
The following packages will be upgraded
  cupsys-driver-gimpprint libc6 libc6-dev libcupsys2 libgimpprint1 locales
  zlib1g


In order to go back, I created the file /etc/apt/preferences and added the
following to it:
Package: *
Pin: release a=stable
Priority: 1001

I then ran apt-get update followed by apt-get upgrade but it didn't change
anything.  Removing gimpprint & installing the stable version fails with
broken dependencies relating to libc6.

Where do I go from here?





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Re: Plug and play USB mice in Unstabble.

[glenn]

I've just been through similar ordeal, I found that hotplug (apt-get
install hotplug) automatically fixed my problem and I only had to edit
XF86Config-4. I also found hotplug causes my system to reboot randomly,
so to get my mouse working I had to:
- modprobe usbcore
- modprobe uhci-hcd
- modprobe usbmouse
- modprobe mousedev
- in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 set your device to /dev/input/mice
I don't have much expertise, but this seemed to work for me, so give it
a go
Glenn
On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 10:57, Thomas G wrote: 
> I cant get my usb mouse to work for the life of me. Is there an easy way 
> to configure plug and play usb mice? or a way to get my mx500 to work. 
> Im on a nforce2 motherboard and am running sid with gnome. any ideas or 
> input?
> 


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font fuss with ghostscript

[Tom Peters]

I'd appreciate if someone knowledgeable in the Debian Font Manager system
can give me some directions towards solving this problem:

Background: I am writing a book in DocBook, but I have problems generating
a good PDF file from it.  The reason is, that I have to include EPS images
that AcroRead does not know how to render.  But if I use ghostscript to
convert PDF (with EPS) to PDF, I get a new PDF file that A.R. knows how to
digest.

Thus:
fop GemBook.fo GemBook.pdf
gs -dNOPAUSE -dNOPLATFONTS -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile=GemBook_pdf.pdf
GemBook.pdf
(Note: I tried without NOPLATFONTS too)

My problem: the original fonts are plain vanilla Helvetica (for headers)
and Times (for text).  But they are replaced by ghostscript by something
sans-serif.  During processing I get all kinds of messages like:

Page 5
Loading NimbusSanL-Bold font from
/var/lib/defoma/gs.d/dirs/fonts/n019004l.pfb... 2030328 632708 1924052
621813 1 done.
Loading NimbusRomNo9L-Regu font from
/var/lib/defoma/gs.d/dirs/fonts/n021003l.pfb... 2090616 689993 1944148
629111 1 done.

I have many ghostscript packages installed, in particular:
gs 6.53-3 The Ghostscript Postscript interpreter
gs-common  0.3.3.1Common files for different Ghostscript relea
gs-pdfencrypt  1.0.4-6Provides support to view encrypted PDFs with
gsfonts6.0-2.1Fonts for the ghostscript interpreter
gsfonts-x110.17   Make Ghostscript fonts available to X11

However, the contents in /var/lib/defoma/gs.d/dirs/fonts/ do not seem to
be included in the packages directly.  The gsfonts package puts them
under /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/ .  I suppose some install script
copies them under the defoma dirs (copied, no symlinks).

In the log segment the n021003l.pfb is a Times-Roman font, and the
n019004l.pfb is a Helvetica-Bold font.  Both appear in the
/etc/defoma/hints/gsfonts.hints file.  Apparently they are from Nimbus.

But why does ghostscript replace the vanilla Adobe fonts by those Nimbus
fonts?
How come that everything becomes sans-serif?
What can I do about it?

Thanx,
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Tom "thriving on chaos" Peters


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Re: Can dselect display get shown on a serial console?

[Shaul Karl]

On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 05:12:30PM -0800, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> * Shaul Karl ([EMAIL PROTECTED])[20040315 13:44]:
> > 2. Actually, my setup is more complicated. I ssh from machine A to
> >machine B. On machine B I run screen. In one window of screen I run
> >minicom, which connect to machine C. And on minicom display I get 
> >the terminal on which I run dselect. What do I need to do to get
> >proper display of dselect?
> 
> Have you tried setting TERM to screen?
> 


  Only after you suggested that. Indeed
  
export TERM=screen 

seems to fix the problem.
-- 
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you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an idea and I
have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two
ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by  shaulk @ actcom . net . il)


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Re: my experience upgrading from exim3 to 4

[Monique Y. Herman]

On 2004-03-16, Andy Firman penned:
>
> I finally got motivated and upgraded to Exim4 as well but I did not go
> to the effort of using a backup MX.  From what I know, most good MTA's
> are built with redundancy and will try for a couple of days before
> they drop any mail.  My concern was being down and getting
> automatically un-subscribed to all my mailing lists.  That would be
> bad.

Well, I already had a backup MX (just in case my ISP turns evil or
something), so it wasn't a big deal to take advantage of that feature.
I wasn't so much worried about email not finding a server; I shut down
port 25 because I didn't want email to find a *misconfigured* server as
I was setting it up.  Imagine having your mail server announce that your
user doesn't exist here; fun stuff like that.

-- 
monique


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Re: AW: AW: AW: webmin-samba configuration problem

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Simmel wrote:

> bug report is okay, but place it where??? BTS?? NEver did a bug report
> before, please enlighten me :-)
>

See http://bugs.debian.org/  There is full documentation there.  Also
install the reportbug package.  It will automate the process of submitting
a bug for you.


-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/


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Re: PPD files

[Paul Yeatman]

->>In response to your message<<-
  --received from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Paul Yeatman wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to figure out exactly what the PPD file thing is about.
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> These files define the capabilities of a printer. You can download the
> appropriate ppd file from linuxprinting.org or (sometimes) from the
> vendor's site. They are just plain text files, so if you want to know
> what's in them just fire up vim and take a look. One of the packages
> using ppd files is cups, might that be the one you're thinking about?
> 
> Grx HdV

Yes, I've definitely noticed the correlation between CUPS and PPD
files but I don't have CUPS installed on any of my machines.

Thanks for the explanation of PPD files yet I should have been more
explicit.  I realize a PPD file provides information regarding
Postscript commands/capabilities? of a particular printer but, I
guess, my question is more . . . how, when and why would one use it?
And what package could it have been that encouraged me to provide PPD
files (knowing I don't have CUPS installed I'm assuming it is a common
Debian package)?

I currently use lprng with the ifhp package (hp print filters) for
printing.  I noticed recently when trying to get a PCL only
printer working that the foomatic config script put a line
":ppdfile=" in the printcap.  Is there any advantage with using
this with my "ordinary" entries (or is this essentially what the
ifhp filter is doing through another means)?

Yesterday, I found a package called "hp-ppd".  I installed this (not
knowing exactly what it was getting me) and apparently it provides PPD
files for HP printers.  But then what . . .  unless you use the
"ppdfile=" entry in printcap but . . . what does that get you?  I also
noticed a package called "lpr-ppd".  How does this compare with lprng
and when/why would one choose to use this for his print spooler?  This
is more along the line of my inquiry(ies).

Paul

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 ==
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 ==


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Re: Installing from iso images.

[Pigeon]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:00:41AM +1100, bob parker wrote:
> Because I supply various Linuxes to members of my lug, I have quite a few iso 
> images on hand including the 7 for Woody r2, and soon I will have the 13 for 
> Sarge plus the dvd iso images.
> 
> When I use apt-get install whatever it comes back and asks for cdrom #x to be 
> inserted. What I want to know is there some way I can divert this requirement 
> to the corresponding iso image mounted on /mnt via the loopback device?

If you're loopback-mounting individual isos as required, I think you
can just switch to another VC and symlink /dev/cdrom to the mounted
image. If you've got them mounted all the time, you can stick deb file:
statements in /etc/apt/sources.list pointed at the mounted images.
(Can't remember the syntax off the top of my head but a combination of
man sources.list and experimentation should get you there :-) )

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 01:34:37PM -0500, David P James wrote:
> On March 16, 2004 13:04, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 11:16:25PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> 
> >
> > | Further more, why am I penalized with a higher postage rate for not
> > | spamming?
> >
> > I don't understand this statement.
> >
> 
> Bulk mail is typically charged at a lower rate than what is termed 
> "first class" mail, which is what most people think of as "mail". I 
> suspect the reason for the lower cost is the fact that sorting isn't an 
> issue. By the same token, if you place a note on your post box that you 
> do not wish to receive junk mail (unaddressed mail) then I believe the 
> postal carriers are supposed to honour that request. However, if the 
> business has placed your address on the mail (and paid a higher rate, 
> even if not the full first class rate) then the postal service is 
> obliged to deliver it.
> 
> At least that's how it's supposed to work in Canada...

I live in a house which has been converted into a bunch of flats - 10
flats sharing 1 letterbox. This makes it a target for leaflet
spammers. Floods of leaflets get stuffed through the letterbox and
legitimate mail gets lost because it has sixty leaflets on top of it
and nobody realises it's there; also, when the spam gets thrown out
(which takes ages to happen, unless I get fed up enough to do it
myself) legitimate mail gets picked up and thrown out with it. So I
stuck a notice on the letterbox:

"If you are about to post a whole bunch of leaflets through this door
- STOP! The skip is round the corner to the left. Please save me the
trouble."

Made not the slightest difference...

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Re: Gnome completely broken: no characters appear!

[Christophe Combelles]

Christophe Combelles wrote:
Since this morning, after a dist-upgrade on Sid, I cannot use Gnome 
anymore.
Everything is OK while on gdm, but after Gnome is started, it cannot 
display ANY character in the UI. I see the icons, but NO TEXT.

If I start KDE, I have no problem.
If I start any gtk application from KDE, no problem
The problem only occurs after gnome-settings-daemon is started:

Has anybody seen this too ?

I could recover by doing the following:
start KDE,
start gnome-fonts-properties,
disable everything (antialiasing, hinter, etc...)
restart gnome
reenable antialising,
restart gnome.
strange...

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Chris Metzler]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:16:57 +
Pigeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> The original mail contained the important condition "if you don't have
> a flatrate". As far as woody goes, I have a lot of packages installed,
> and there's several off each CD. That would have meant a lot of
> downloading - not necessarily all the CDs, but a lot of apt-getting.

You're right; I totally missed that.  My apologies to Kai Grossjohann.

I suppose it's possible to obtain package lists organized by CD, so
one could figure out *which* CDs one needed.  if it were absolutely
necessary to get the CDs by mail.  I might also think that the
sorting of CD contents by popularity would mean that the first two
or so CDs would take care of enough of what one wanted that an 8 hour
download for the remaining packages of interest wouldn't be necessary.
So it's still not clear to me that it's a problem, I guess.

-c


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Re: Vdr crashes with linux 2.6.3

[Seppo Ingalsuo]

ti, 2004-03-16 kello 20:15, Seppo Ingalsuo kirjoitti:
> I have an EPIA 800 based PC with up-to-date Debian testing (sarge). Vdr
> (video disk recorder) 1.3.6 application crashes always almost
> immediately at start. Gdb (6.0 from unstable...) shows it happens in
> libpthread.so 

Sorry for not being too specific. This vdr is not from Debian packages.
I'm interpreting from vdr mailing list responses that others haven't
seen this kind of problem so I'm suspecting this could be a Debian
specific problem, perhaps in libc6 package. I'll try to compile the
package again from sources and try see what happens.




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Re: PPD files

[HdV]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, Paul Yeatman wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out exactly what the PPD file thing is about.

Hi Paul,

These files define the capabilities of a printer. You can download the
appropriate ppd file from linuxprinting.org or (sometimes) from the
vendor's site. They are just plain text files, so if you want to know
what's in them just fire up vim and take a look. One of the packages
using ppd files is cups, might that be the one you're thinking about?

Grx HdV



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Toshiba 3500 Tablet PC

[Arron Kau]

Does anyone know of a good reference for installing linux on
a tablet, esp. on a Toshiba 3500?

 

How about software under linux that provides tablet
functionality: (inking, handwriting reco…)?

 

Thanks.

 

Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:22:41PM -, Tim Gunning wrote:
> > 
> > > How in God's name is it an obstacle? Who the hell needs all 13 CD's? 
> > > Are you planning on installing every single binary package there is?
> > 
> >
> 
> whoot, is it actually possible to install everything, 
> 
> does such a command exist ?
> 
> +
> 
> bash-2.05b$ sudo apt-get install *
> Password:
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependancy Tree... Done
> E: Couldn't find package 1
> bash-2.05b$
> 
> ++
> 
> gutted. bet it would have been a beast as well ;)

Should have been '*' :-)

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:23:30AM +, Richard Kimber wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:48 +
> Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Judging from what friends say about the US' mail system and what I know
> > of other systems, the US' mail system is dreadful compared to that of
> > many other first-world countries.
> 
> So, it's better than ours, then? :)

I don't find ours to be that bad - mail usually arrives within 2-3
days. It's possible to send off a postal order for some electronic
components on Monday and have the bits on Wednesday, failing that
Thursday; any longer delays are more likely to be due to the supplier
of the bits than the PO. There is something of a problem with the way
it all grinds to a halt at weekends, but then everything grinds to a
halt at weekends.

The biggest difficulty I have with the postal service is living in a
place with a shared letterbox. Stuff gets pinched. The workaround is
to have a radio transmitter attached to the flap of the letterbox and
a receiver in my room which beeps when the post arrives, so I can go
and collect it straightaway before anyone gets a chance to pinch it.

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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:30:26AM -0500, Chris Metzler wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:49:10 +0100
> Kai Grossjohann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Beretta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > How in God's name is it an obstacle? Who the hell needs all 13 CD's?
> > > Are you planning on installing every single binary package there is?
> > 
> > I don't know about you, but the idea of
> > 
> >   - buy CD 1 via mail order
> >   - wait a week for it to arrive
> >   - start Debian installation
> >   - want to install application X
> >   - find out which CD contains application X
> >   - buy CD Y via mail order
> >   - wait a week for it to arrive
> >   -...
> > 
> > doesn't sound too exciting for me.  Especially the "wait a week" bits.
> 
> Yes, but why in the hell would you do that, either?  Why wouldn't it
> be:
> 
> - buy CD 1 via mail order
> - wait a week for it to arrive
> - start Debian installation, which then completes itself over the network
>   after the base system is installed.

The original mail contained the important condition "if you don't have
a flatrate". As far as woody goes, I have a lot of packages installed,
and there's several off each CD. That would have meant a lot of
downloading - not necessarily all the CDs, but a lot of apt-getting.

> > So, *if* somebody decides to buy via mail order, *then* surely
> > anything but "the full set of all CDs" doesn't make sense.
> 
> If you have some commitment to doing everything the hard way,
> sure, I guess.

Or if you have a metered connection.

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Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Andreas Janssen]

Hello

Greg Bolshaw (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> Lawrence Lee wrote:
>> I want to install ssh on an old laptop that has a small hard drive.
>> My problem is that I think the ssh server is huge, so I just want to
>> install ssh client. I don't just want to disable the server, but i
>> don't want it to install ssh server, to save space.
> 
> `apt-get install ssh` - you will be asked whether you want to install
> the server.

I don't know about Sarge or Sid, but if you use Woody you are only asked
if you want to run the ssh server. You cannot deinstall it without
deinstalling the client as well - they are in the same package.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Steve Lamb]

Lawrence Lee wrote:
I want to install ssh on an old laptop that has a small hard drive. My
problem is that I think the ssh server is huge.
Me thinks you think wrong.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~} ls -l `which sshd`
-rwxr-xr-x1 root root   275288 2004-01-04 15:44 /usr/sbin/sshd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~} ls -l `which ssh`
-rwxr-xr-x1 root root   212792 2004-01-04 15:44 /usr/bin/ssh
The server's only 60k larger than the client and even on a tiny, by 
today's standards, 2Gb drive <300kb isn't huge.  :)

--
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: my experience upgrading from exim3 to 4

[Andy Firman]

On Sun, Mar 14, 2004 at 09:18:52AM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> On 2004-03-14, Vineet Kumar penned:
> >
> > That part about the process on port 25 is a bit strange, but having
> > the init scripts in place shouldn't be a problem.  Init scripts hang
> > around when you remove (without purging) a package, but they usually
> > begin with something like
> >
> > DAEMON=/usr/lib/exim/exim3 test -x $DAEMON || exit 0
> >
> > So if the package is removed the init script will simply exit.  So
> > having it invoked at startup shouldn't be a problem, since it just
> > exits without doing anything.
>
> Ah!  Good point.  I just checked the script; you're right.  Okay, so,
> that wasn't a problem.  I'm still glad I got rid of 'em.  I'm sure the
> naming convention (exim rather than exim3) would confuse me at some
> point.  ("But I changed the exim files and nothing's different!")
>

Cool, I did not now that either.  I still have exim starting up in my
init scripts along with exim4.  The exim script has this:
DAEMON=/usr/sbin/exim
NAME=exim
test -x $DAEMON || exit 0

But there is no longer a /usr/sbin/exim on my system since exim 
was uninstalled when I installed exim4.  Now I understand.

I finally got motivated and upgraded to Exim4 as well but I did
not go to the effort of using a backup MX.  From what I know, most 
good MTA's are built with redundancy and will try for a couple of days
before they drop any mail.  My concern was being down and getting 
automatically un-subscribed to all my mailing lists.  That would be bad.

This is what I did for my Debian Stable server:

Added the following lines to my /etc/apt/sources.list file.
deb http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/exim4manpages/ woody/
deb http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/gnutls/ woody/

Then I did apt-get update, then apt-get install exim4-deamon-heavy.
(exim4-daemon-heavy includes exiscan-acl which allows one to actually
reject email at smtp time which is very, very nice)

It took a couple of hours learning how the configuration works as 
it is totally different from Exim 3.

The debconf took care of the main isses such as what domains you 
accept mail for, who you relay for, do you recieve via smtp or 
fetchmail, etc

I was worried about local delivery as I like to deliver to /home/user/Maildir.
Exim4 is delivering the same way Exim 3 did and I did not have to do anything.

Getting spamassassin working with exiscan took a while.
Mailman 2.1.4 was pretty easy to get working again.

I am finding that Exim4.30 is an excellent MTA.

Thanks to Andreas Metzler for the backport.

Andy


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Re: ssh client and ssh server

[Greg Bolshaw]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Lawrence Lee wrote:
> I want to install ssh on an old laptop that has a small hard drive.
> My problem is that I think the ssh server is huge, so I just want to
> install ssh client. I don't just want to disable the server, but i
> don't want it to install ssh server, to save space.

`apt-get install ssh` - you will be asked whether you want to install 
the server.

HTH
Greg

- -- 
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| Greg Bolshaw LPIC  | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
| Consultant | JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Linux Technologies | http://www.linuxtechnologies.co.uk   |
+---+
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/~~~\
| This e-mail has been digitally signed using PGP (Pretty Good  |
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=H18b
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Re: Installing from iso images.

[Johann Koenig]

On Tuesday March 16 at 07:38pm
Brian Brazil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In fact I then export this to all my other systems with samba. BTW:
> you can't loopback from NTFS.

Do you mean NFS? If so, have you looked at the option for /etc/exports
'nohide'? man exports
-- 
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Now Playing: Social Distortion - Lost Child : Prison Bound
Today is Setting Orange, the 2nd day of Discord in the YOLD 3170
My public pgp key: http://mental-graffiti.com/pgp/johannkoenig.pgp


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ssh client and ssh server

[Lawrence Lee]

I want to install ssh on an old laptop that has a small hard drive. My
problem is that I think the ssh server is huge, so I just want to install
ssh client. I don't just want to disable the server, but i don't want it
to install ssh server, to save space. I tried googling, but nothing
relavant came up. Is that because you need ssh server for ssh client? Kind
of like you need x-server for x-window?


---
Lawrence Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hills.ccsf.edu/~llee32/index.html


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Gnome completely broken: no characters appear!

[Christophe Combelles]

Since this morning, after a dist-upgrade on Sid, I cannot use Gnome anymore.
Everything is OK while on gdm, but after Gnome is started, it cannot display ANY 
character in the UI. I see the icons, but NO TEXT.

If I start KDE, I have no problem.
If I start any gtk application from KDE, no problem
The problem only occurs after gnome-settings-daemon is started:

Has anybody seen this too ?

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Re: gnus: How to automagically handle GPG

[Kirk Strauser]

At 2004-03-16T18:27:00Z, Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> See
>
>   http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/GnusPGG

What's the purpose of the section called "Automatic decryption/verification
of gpg/pgp parts"?  Does it do something fundamentally different than the 

(setq mm-verify-option 'always)
(setq mm-decrypt-option 'always)

lines that we've been using?
-- 
Kirk Strauser
In Googlis non est, ergo non est.


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Re: Installing from iso images.

[Brian Brazil]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:00:41AM +1100, bob parker wrote:
> Because I supply various Linuxes to members of my lug, I have quite a few iso 
> images on hand including the 7 for Woody r2, and soon I will have the 13 for 
> Sarge plus the dvd iso images.
> 
> When I use apt-get install whatever it comes back and asks for cdrom #x to be 
> inserted. What I want to know is there some way I can divert this requirement 
> to the corresponding iso image mounted on /mnt via the loopback device?

Yip, that's my setup as my systems have no net access. Hence I can't
look at the right now. Loopback mount(avoid spaces) and then add something like:
/mnt/Debian-3.0/CD1/pool woody main contrib non-free

I'd give the exact line but as I said I don't have it handy. Note that
loop may only allow 8 mounts but that can be handled by a kernel boot
parameter/module option (max_loop=256 IIRC).

In fact I then export this to all my other systems with samba. BTW: you
can't loopback from NTFS.

Brian


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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[bob parker]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:49, Kai Grossjohann wrote:
> Beretta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > How in God's name is it an obstacle? Who the hell needs all 13 CD's?
> > Are you planning on installing every single binary package there is?
>
> I don't know about you, but the idea of
>
>   - buy CD 1 via mail order
>   - wait a week for it to arrive
>   - start Debian installation
>   - want to install application X
>   - find out which CD contains application X
>   - buy CD Y via mail order
>   - wait a week for it to arrive
>   -...
>
> doesn't sound too exciting for me.  Especially the "wait a week" bits.
>
> Please note that an 8h download via modem can become quite expensive
> if you don't have a flatrate.  That's, I guess, why people want to
> order the CDs in the first place.
>
> So, *if* somebody decides to buy via mail order, *then* surely
> anything but "the full set of all CDs" doesn't make sense.

Agreed. FWIW I have hit every one of my Woody set of 7 doing installs.
Maybe that's cos I'm retired and have too much time on my hands. :-)

Bob Parker


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PPD files

[Paul Yeatman]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out exactly what the PPD file thing is about.
This is new to me.  I remember way back when, either when
upgrading to Woody or sometime thereafter, some software (my best
guess is the defoma package) got installed that had a debconf
window that explicitely encouraged something about getting the PPD
files for any printers used.  I had no idea what these were at the
time and, as printing seemed to work fine, I left things alone.
Now I'm getting more exposed to printing and PPD files and am
again wondering what all this is about.  If I remember correctly, the
debconf message added that a program/command was to run once the
correct PPD file(s) were acquired.  I tried running 'dpkg-reconfigure
defoma' but apparently there is no debconf interaction with this
package.  Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?

Paul

-- 
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 ==
 ==Proudly brought to you by Mutt==
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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[bob parker]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:59, David wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 04:57:30AM +1100, bob parker wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:31, Beretta wrote:
> >
> > Yeah and who can tie up their phone line 24 hours. I did d/l a full iso
> > (Knoppix) on my dialup at 8/24 through the night only. It took a week.
> > And then it was out a bit or 3 and failed the md5sum check, repaired by
> > rsync fortunately.
> >
> > Any way for me on my dialup, the d/l is 3 months.
>
> I, too, am on dialup.  And I, too, have downloaded ISO's, using much the
> same strateg you did.  It's slow and tedious, but it is feasible.
>
> But as far as _we_ are concerned with the the number of CD's, I don't
> think it should be a problem.  I don't see _any_ reason to download the
> whole set unless you wish to be a collector.  For one thing, after
> several security updates, many of the packages will probably be outdated
> before we even would install them.  

That is where jigdo comes right into it's own. I keep the iso images of my 
Woody set of 7 on my 80 gig hard drive.  So I create the upgraded images from
1. The original iso
2. /var/cache/apt/ (iirc). I keep the system uptodate so jigdo gets what I 
have already downloaded.  I use apt-get autoclean but not apt-get clean so I 
keep my updated packages.
3. The Debian mirrors last.

> I think the recommendation of
> downloading just what you need to get a secure network system up and
> running and doing a net install of the rest is the wisest choice.

For many people yes. I supply cds to my local lug members so I need them all.

>
> It seems that the argument that there's too much in the distro, but one
> still wants it ALL seems a bit circular to me.  If you get it all,
> you're going to have to download a bunch one way or the other.  If
> there's too much, why would you want all of it in the first place?  It
> seems that it's much more logical to first download a few (however much
> that would be) necessary packages, and then begin picking what you need
> and really want.  For one thing, it's more reliable.  When you download
> a ~700 Meg image, it has to be correct in its entirety.  One little
> glitch and you've lost it all unless you can get it straightened out.

When that happens rsync is very much your friend. I've corrected full sized 
iso's on my rubber band powered dialup in as little as 5 minutes, more often 
20 minutes, which is stunning compared to the time it takes to d/l the iso in 
the first place. More than likely need to use rsync with the --ignore-times 
option.

Jigdo will be even more important when I have 13 images + 2 dvd images to 
maintain.

Bob Parker


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Re: gnus: How to automagically handle GPG

[Kirk Strauser]

At 2004-03-16T18:56:55Z, Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> OK, I can sign and view inline PGP-signed messages, but I see PGP/MIME as
> an attachment...blarg.  And I don't seem to see it automatically in
> newsgroups.

That's... unexpected.  Maybe quit and reload Emacs?

Regarding the rest of my configuration, this is an excerpt from my .gnus.el
(same as .gnus, but it gets compiled for faster startups):


(setq
 ;; Variables that can be customized on a per-group basis
 gnus-newsgroup-variables '(setup-hook-function-name)
 )

;; Emacs should always decrypt and verify emails
;; automatically
(setq mm-verify-option 'always)
(setq mm-decrypt-option 'always)
(setq gnus-buttonized-mime-types '("multipart/encrypted" "multipart/signed"))

(add-hook 'gnus-message-setup-hook
  (lambda ()
(interactive)
(and setup-hook-function-name
 (funcall setup-hook-function-name


Then, in the group parameters for the root topic ("Gnus" - I think it's the
same for everyone), I have:


((posting-style
  (signature-file "~/.signature"))
 (setup-hook-function-name
  '(lambda nil
 (if
 (message-news-p)
 'mml-secure-message-sign-pgp 'mml-secure-message-sign-pgpmime


Now, if I post to a mailing list, Gnus uses the -sign-pgpmime function to
sign my mail.  If I post to a newsgroup, Gnus uses -sign-pgp.  In groups
where I don't want to sign my email at all I add this to my group
parameters:


(setup-hook-function-name nil)


Of course, I can always manually choose whether or how to sign a particular
message before I send it, but it's nice to not have to remember.  :)
-- 
Kirk Strauser


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Re: Next stable release: 13 CD's

[Steve Lamb]

Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
The sender paid for the delivery.  Unlike with email spam where the
sender steals the resources for delivery.  Notice that, before you
implemented automatic throwing away of email, how you received vastly
more email spam than you did postal mail (ads and real mail).  Putting
the cost of delivery on the sender makes advertisers think twice
before paying to put a piece of paper in your mailbox.  (while I get
enough postal spam, I still don't get a whole lot)
Mind you we still pay for it.  I don't think the post office takes a 
portion of the proceeds from sending junk mail and hands them over to the 
local municipalities for waste removal and management.  It is quite an eye 
opener to live in an apartment complex and see the trash bin next to the 
mailboxes stuffed to overflowing almost every day from the 99.9% of junk mail 
that isn't wanted and thus by definition isn't needed.  Multiply that by the 
number of complexes in any decent sized metro area and it comes out to at 
least a few truckloads of crap every day that people never even look at yet 
have to pay for the removal and storage/management of.

--
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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