date:20051113

Mark Crean wrote:
> I also run SuSE and have done for a few years now. It is normally every
> bit as stable as Debian Stable and security updates are often faster as
> well.

This of course feeds into the misconception of Stable.  It's like "free
software" where people had to constantly say "Free as in open source, and free
as in free beer".  Debian stable is about stability in the "programs don't
crash" sense but it was named mainly for the "programs don't *change*" sense.
 So no, SUSE as you describe it is not every bit as stable as Debian Stable.
It changes, Debian Stable does not.

> Some
> of the comments on here about folks "deserving everything they get" and
> so forth if they do not run Stable are highly unattractive and reinforce
> negative attitudes about Debian. Since I'd like to make Debian my OS
> from here on in, this pains me.

It's not the negative, it's the truth.  It also cuts both ways.  People
who lament the fact that Stable doesn't have newer software get what they
deserve by riding Stable; older software that doesn't change.  If they want
changing software, they ride unstable and, again, get what they deserve.

-- 
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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Jon Dowland wrote:
> I think quite a lot of people are very happy to use stable on desktop
> systems. Most people who aren't are not typical desktop users
> themselves, but geeks or enthusiasts who want new-fangled stuff. For
> day-to-day office tasks and the like, a rock-solid base, where the
> layout of buttons etc. doesn't change every other week, is infinitely
> more desirable.

Anecdotal evidence to suppoort that; my dad.  In the past several years
I've bounced around email clients.  Name it and chances are I've run it.
TBird, sylpheed-claws, KMail, mutt, Evolution, Squirrelmail, elmo, pine,
Pegasus, Lookout! and a slew of others I've forgotten.  Every few months I
poke and different email clients hoping to find something closer to my ideal.
 I'm always looking for better.

My dad, in that same time, has used one client.  PMMail.  He started on
PMMail/2 back when I was big into OS/2 and PMMail/2.  When OS/2, for all
intents and purposes died, he moved to PMMail98 on Windows 98.  He's since
upgraded to PMMail2000 which is just a minor bugfix and rebranding to a
company that bought it and promptly never supported it.  He's using an email
client who's core was written over a decade ago and is happy with it.  So much
so that as much as I try to get him to move over to TBird, the closest to
PMMail in functionality and interface, he won't budge.  Not even the promise
of built-in Bayesian spam protection can sway him.

In the end Stable should remain precisely because noone else is doing it
the Debian way.  To say it is a failure and insist it should do things
differently is to ignore that for certain people it is a success and it does
have benefits.

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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Scott wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:

>>Scott wrote:

>>>And then OpenOffice.0rg 3, Firefox 2.0, GIMP 3.0, GNOME 2.16, and KDE
>>>4.0 will be released within the following month discouraging many from
>>>sticking with Debian stable

>>You still misunderstand.  The point is there is no one standing there with
>>a gun to their head forcing said people to stick to stable.  *NO ONE*. 

> Considering I'm *not* running stable, I understand perfectly.  Where
> have I implied I was?

Where did I imply you had said you were?  My response was to your general
statement that "people" would shy away from Debian stable.  I responded that
"people" don't have a gun to their head forcing them to remain on stable.
Never once were you mentioned.

> What Debian (or SOMEBODY please) needs is a new "stable" release at
> least once a year with security updates, bugfixes AND *major* software
> package (i.e 1.5 to 2.0, 3.6-4.0) updates to that release as the next
> release is being simultaneously developed.

Nope, stable is stable.  Stable let's you know there's a very solid base.
 It is up to the users to then upgrade packages as they so desire.  It's isn't
like there aren't 4 repositories that I can think of off the top of my head to
achieve just this.

> Wait, there is one I can think of, but unfortunately they utilize this
> software called YUM and hand have a gazillion packages but Debian has a
> gazillion and a half.

Funny, mine don't.

testing
unstable
apt-get.org (for backports)
volitile

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Re: unsubsrib

Gene Heskett wrote:
> And its preventing you from seeing the unsubscribe instructions
> appended to every message comeing through these servers.  You choice if
> you want to look like you just got off the bus.

Actually it is my choice to not see instructions I have seen appended to
every message for a good portion of the decade (give or take a year) I've been
subscribed to Debian-User.  Something tells me that my client isn't broken nor
am I in danger of looking like I "just got off the bus".

> I looked at Thunderbird because a friend was raving about it.  It
> didn't impress me, but then I'm used to kmail from kde 3.3.0.  Html
> doodads are nothing but a PITA that quadruples the size of the message,
> email should be pure text.  TBird makes that difficult IMO.  It's
> pretty, yes, but its usability to me is a -1.

Makes it difficult.  Wow, did you just get off the bus?  Edit, Account
Settings, Composition, uncheck "Compose messages in HTML format".  I'm sure
that you found that a strain.  I certainly did not when I first started using 
it.

> And you cannot count either.  I could get rid of the Openoffice blurb,
> but the rest stays, its been there for years and you are the first to
> complain in about 7 years now...

I can count.  It's called an hyperboolic approximation for humerous intent
because I didn't feel like having an exact number.  :P

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Re: web-based http password/group manager

Alvin Oga wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

>>Can anyone recommend a good web-based (CGI, PHP etc) manager for HTTP
>>password/group files?

>>Specifically I need to maintain a list of users, and assign the users to
>>one or more groups.

> vi ... takes about 5 seconds bring up the files to add/delete users :-)

Yes, because as we all know vi is really web based.  No, really.

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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread Alan Ianson

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 09:46:06PM -0800, Steve Mazurek wrote:

> I've used FC2, Mandrake (both of which I like very much) and Debian Sarge.
> Currently I am using Xandros, which is Debian-based. I'm not using Sarge
> right now because there are a lot of packages included and it's hard for me
> to determine which I need or don't need. If i install too many, I'll
> probably get things messed up. What I'm going to do is get a book dedicated
> specifically to Debian, determine what I need, and then reinstall Debian
> Sarge. But I will definitely go back to Debian.

The book is a good idea, grab your book and your install disks and then
just experiment. One of the great things about debian is it's package
system, you can install or remove anything you like. Just look through
dselect or apptitude and install whatever looks interesting. If you find
you made a mistake, just remove it, or leave it there for another day.
This stuff is all available to you, but I doubt you'll ever get around
to it all. At least I haven't!

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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread Steve Mazurek

I've used FC2, Mandrake (both of which I like very much) and Debian
Sarge.  Currently I am using Xandros, which is Debian-based. 
I'm not using Sarge right now because there are a lot of packages
included and it's hard for me to determine which I need or don't
need.  If i install too many,  I'll probably get things
messed up.  What I'm going to do is get a book dedicated
specifically to Debian, determine what I need, and then reinstall
Debian Sarge.  But I will definitely go back to Debian.

Steve MazurekOn 11/9/05, Ueli Meier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Im thinking of getting Debian Linux, currently I use Mandrake but I needto upgrade.On the web I could not get the Information I was looking for.I read an article that was a bit confusing.It says if you want a Linux Desktop rather use coral Linux or Suse.
Check the links.http://www.aboutdebian.com/install31.htmhttp://www.aboutdebian.com/desktop.htmIs Debian more for server applications, or is it a true Desktop like
Suse?Can I access the files on a dos partition?Ueli--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact 
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gagnez de quoi passer un bon noel

2005-11-13 Thread cashlist

===ROSACASH=
Voici comment gagner 5000 euro par mois
vous n'avez pas a faire de pub pour votre lien
Nous Nous occupons de tout.

http://rosapink.net

Bon succès @ tous.
===ROSACASH=


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Debian Raid Crash Repair

2005-11-13 Thread Siju George

hi,

I had a mirror o sarge with 2 disks. One of them failed now. I had
given an option for 1 spare disk while configuring Raid. Could some
one please tell me what I should do to Place a new disk and recreate
the mirror?? Should I manually partition the new disk or is there a
command that I can run after connecting the disk so that the Raid
Partitions will be created automatically and the rest of the space in
the hard disk be freely available? I would like to place an 80 GB disk
instead of a 40 GB one.

Thankyou so much

Kind Regards

Siju

Browser stopped displaying European characters

2005-11-13 Thread Haines Brown

[I apoligize if this message is duplicated. I've not been able to gate
the newsgroup, and inadvertangly sent a message to it rather than
through the list, which I'm doing now].

I'm running Galeon and Firefox browsers under debian/sarge. I believe
they were displaying European accented characters (but I'm not sure)
until I realized that locale hadn't been properly configured and redid
the configuration. Now I have:

  $ locale
  LANG=en_US
  LC_CTYPE="en_US"
  ...
  LC_ALL=

At present, accented European characters are replaced by "?".

In Galeon, Preference, Fonts, I have "Western Encoding". In Firefox,
English is the preferred language. Default encodeing is ISO 8859-0. I
can add a language (German) to the Preferences list, but it has no
effect on the display of German accented characters. 

-- 
 
   Haines Brown
   KB1GRM   


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Re: Sarge and Burning with TEAC DW-552G - Solution (Sort of)

2005-11-13 Thread Clint Harshaw

I backed up my data and using a spare hard drive, I installed Etch from 
the new installer, and then upgraded to Sid. I removed udev and all its 
related files using apt-get because of errors that were coming up on 
apt-get. After removing udev, I did:


apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y && apt-get dist upgrade -y

to move it all to Sid including the 2.6.14 kernel. Burning with this CD 
burner works just fine now. Since this is a home machine, I'm not 
terribly worried about it as much as I am the office machine.


So at this point I'm inclined to believe the problem is with this burner 
and 2.6.8 kernels.


Clint






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Re: dpkg-reconfigure clamav doesnot work

2005-11-13 Thread Siju George

On 11/14/05, Seeker5528 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:33 +0530
> Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > dpkg-reconfigure doesn't seem to work with clamav.
> >
> > What should I do to reconfigure the clamav package seetings??
>
> Synaptic shows me that clamav-base and clamav-freshclam use debconf so I
> would try both of those.
>

Thankyou so much Seeker its working :-)

Kind Regards

Siju

problems with e2fsprogs - conflicts/pre-depeds loop

2005-11-13 Thread Raj Kombiyil

Fellow uber-debianers,I have a problem with e2fsprogs. (Trying to install uni2ascii for example, which depends on e2fsprogs)
My environment: Debian gnu/linux testing/unstable, Kernel version 2.4.27(home brewed), libc6 2.3.2.ds1-22, sysvinit 2.84-2woody1

my sources.list
=

#security
deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free
# the main Debian packages.
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
# the non-US Debian packages.
deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free
#Blackdown Java
deb ftp://ftp.tux.org/java/debian/ sarge non-free

I have checked the earlier posts to this forum and it seems like this
is more of a problem of mixing distributions than anything to do with
the package. I have always used testing/unstable without any major
difficulties and recently with the release of SARGE I tweaked the
sources.list to point to the non-us "stable" distribution and forgot
about it, which might have caused the problem. All my work resides on
this system and I am "short of time". So without harming my
environment, is there a way around this problem - i.e; to fix --->
---
E: This installation run will require temporarily removing the
essential package e2fsprogs due to a Conflicts/Pre-Depends loop. This
is often bad, but if you really want to do it, activate the
APT::Force-LoopBreak option.
E: Internal Error, Could not early remove e2fsprogs
--
Any advice/suggestions welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Raj
ps: I am not subscribed to the list, so I would appreciate it if you could kindly mail me offlist.

--You have to be what you don't want to be, in order to be what you want to be!

lost interupt

2005-11-13 Thread Joe Zien

I installed knoppix 4.0 from a dvd that was included with Linux Format 
issue 73 on my drive /dev/hdb16 and it went well.
When I 1st booted with grub, I get message "give password for 
maintenance" or enter ctrl d for normal startup. I enter ctrl d and kno 
4.0 starts up normally.
The next day, I start kno 4.0 and I keep geting "hdb: lost interupt" and 
I have to reboot, try again and still get "lost interupt"
I have kno 3.6 installed on hdb10 so my hdb is ok. I have other distros 
installed on hdb and they all work ok


TIA

jozien


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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread John Hasler

James Vahn writes:
> Smoke and mirrors. These are an interesting read:

Old news.  All this has been covered extensively on Groklaw.
-- 
John Hasler


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Debian Sarge and loopback filesystem root

2005-11-13 Thread Kevin Veroneau

Hello,

I have a question that has been bugging me about the Debian Sarge
Kernel and INITRD. I noticed when taking apart the INITRD to insert the
correct code for a loopback filesystem root, the INITRD is so full with
other such code, I don't know where to insert the code from the HOWTO.

With doing this, I am going to be testing out an alternative to the
'bootcd' package, and create my own method that will support add-on
modules, but will differ quite alot to Knoppix and other such LiveCDs. I
will be adding support for installing to either a vfat/ntfs filesystem,
using a loopback root, thus removing the limitation that most people
face when install Debian on systems where Windows takes up their entire
hard disc. Giving them a chance to try Debian Sarge fully working and
fully Debian Sarge compatible.

It's still this first step that I am currently at a loss. If anyone
has any experience with Debian Sarge and it's INITRD, could you please
reply. I am subscribed to this list. I'm not to sure if this is a
developer question, since it is targeted at the user-level INITRD. I am
not asking questions regarding developing applications on Debian, or
even modifing the Debian kernel. Please correct me if I am wrong to use
this list or not.

--- Kevin Veroneau
"Forever with Debian, and never without Debian. I truly live the Debian
way. Long live Debian, and the entire toy story collection."


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Re: Ram memory after many days

2005-11-13 Thread Carl Johnson

gustavo halperin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hello
> 
>  I commonly use the next applications: Mozilla, gnu-emacs, gv, xpdf
> and many xterminals.  The problem is that after many days without
> restart the system the memory grow a little more any day and after
> aprox. 20 days I have all my 775MB occupied by the system and even if
> I close all the applications the memory occupied still the same, just
> reboot the system free this memory.
>  My question is how release the memory that is not in use any more?

I have similar problems, and I know it isn't used by the buffers and
cache as others have already suggested.  I have to exit from
X-windows, so it appears that X has some major memory leaks.  My
system seems to lose about 50MB/day, so that means I have to restart
X-windows every couple of weeks before I fill up RAM and swap.

Does anybody else have any suggestions on how to trace those memory
leaks without rebuilding the entire system from source?  I have
already tried 'xrestop', but it doesn't appear to be the applications,
so it must be at the server or library level.  I use similar
applications as the original writer, except I use Firefox instead of
Mozilla, and I use wmaker without gnome or KDE.

-- 
Carl Johnson[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread James Vahn

John Hassler wrote:
> Hugo Vanwoerkom writes:
>> I read it carefully and being, how shall one say, not business oriented
>> 8-p, what does it mean?
> 
> It means that the company that now calls itself "SCO" is an entirely
> different company from the 1980s Unix company by that name.

Smoke and mirrors. These are an interesting read:

http://buffy.sighup.org.uk/sco/note01.html
http://buffy.sighup.org.uk/sco/note02.html
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3489721


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Re: grammar checkers

2005-11-13 Thread Seeker5528

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:38:02 -0500
Mark Grieveson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A function of computers is to help people to communicate, and become
> empowered. Some computer users are recent immigrants, for whom English
> is not their first language.   Some computer users did not have a
> chance to attend post-secondary education, and worry about how they
> sound.  And some are educated, but still like to have both their
> spelling and grammar checked once in a while.  Whenever I ask, in a
> Linux forum, why Linux word processors do not have grammar checkers, I
> usually receive snobby answers implying that grammar checkers are
> stupid, and therefore so am I.  And this always surprises me. 

There is grammar checking for Abiword, but it's a work in progress and
not available for a released version.

For those who think grammar checking is stupid.

How many times have you seen posts asking about "duel boot"?

As fascinating as the idea of setting up multiple OSes to face each
other in single combat sounds, I think this is not really what these
people are wanting to know. ;)

Is this not the kind of error that grammar checking is intended to
prevent?

Later, Seeker

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure clamav doesnot work

2005-11-13 Thread Seeker5528

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:33 +0530
Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> dpkg-reconfigure doesn't seem to work with clamav.
> 
> What should I do to reconfigure the clamav package seetings??

Synaptic shows me that clamav-base and clamav-freshclam use debconf so I
would try both of those.

Later, Seeker


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Re: grammar checkers

2005-11-13 Thread Heimdall Midgard

On 2005/11/13, Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mark Grieveson wrote:
>
> > It was very good.  It would not only point out
> > grammar errors, but gave thorough explanations as
> > well (for example: "This sentence is in the
> > /passive voice, /ie, 'The ball was thrown by John'.
> > Consider rewording to the /active voice,/ ie, 'John
> > threw the ball'").
>
> Ah, yes, the active, passive voice "error".

That's more of a style issue than a grammar error.

> Mary's black eye stung.  It had been hit by a
> ball.  She looked at each of her classmates.  John
> was the only one who would not look her in the eye.
> She knew, the ball had been thrown by John.
>
> DINGDINGDING, passive voice!  But that's what
> fits there.
>
> > A function of computers is to help people to
> > communicate, and become empowered.
>
> No, the function of computers is to do what we
> tell them to do, not the other way around.

I think it's also the function of computers to remind
us that we may have committed an error. I think you're
talking about auto-correction.

Auto-correction is useful for fixing a very limited set
of writing problems, e.g. correcting every occurence of
"teh" (a letter combination that doesn't exist in
conventional English) to "the". Anything more is
probably asking for trouble.

> > Some computer users are recent immigrants, for whom
> > English is not their first language.  Some computer
> > users did not have a chance to attend
> > post-secondary education, and worry about how they
> > sound.  And some are educated, but still like to
> > have both their spelling and grammar checked once
> > in a while.

I wouldn't sit such an immigrant in front of a computer
and have him or her type out business letters. However,
in my former job as a copy editor I did find the crude
grammar checker of the word processor I had to endure
quite effective in ferreting out errors like
subject-verb agreement. There were plenty of false
positives, of course. But that's what the human (Ich)
was hired for.

[...]

> [1] Why yes, their, there and they're were put into
> that sentence as an example.  Have a cookie!

DISCLAIMER: This email was not checked for spelling and
grammatical errors.

--
Albert Einstein: Phantasie ist wichtiger als Wissen, denn Wissen ist begrenzt.

Re: spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Heimdall Midgard

2005/11/14, Wayne Topa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Adam Hardy([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> > I googled for this extensively and come up with nothing - I'm looking
> > for a hard-core spam blacklist to remove the spam from my POP3 mailbox
> > before I download it.

[...]

> apt-cache show mailfilter
>
> Removes spam at the server so you don't have to download it.  Uses
> Allow, Deny, Scoring regex rules to mark spam for deletion.
>
> There is also a new spinoff called murx which allows more options in the
> 'spam' filtering.  A debian package is available .

I used to do that.

But I found it easier to just filter it at the server level. This can
be done by getting an email service (paid or free) that allows you to
set up filters that sends spam direct to the Trash or marks it as,
well, spam. This of course assumes that the email service allows you
pop access. I consider this to be one of GMail Beta's killer features,
compared to other popular freemail accounts (e.g. Yahoo and Hotmail).
Of course, you do need a GMail invite (but practically everyone knows
a grand uncle or distant cousin with invites to spare). Or you could
sign up for the paid version of Yahoo, etc.

Another trick I use is to enable mail forwarding across as many as six
email accounts. Each email account has its own set of filters, so that
at each iteration (Account 1 forwards to Account 2, which forwards to
Account 3, etc.), more and more spam is removed. This also allows me
to post at a mailing list using Account 1 (which is exposed to the
world) and read my post at Account 6 (more or less private).

--
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Re: mplayer windows size

2005-11-13 Thread Jeremy Hiestand

Add the following line to ~/.mplayer/config

 xy=640

This will scale EVERY movie to 640x[properly scaled y value].

To do this only for movie.avi, create the file movie.avi.conf in your ~/.mplayer/ directory and add the above line.

This may only work when using the xv video option.
On 11/12/05, BingYU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi allI have some difficulty in managing the size of mplayer ( I use FVWM WM)here is the output infermation.VO: [xv] 320x240 => 320x240 Planar YV1the mplayer windows is too small, Everytime I need to drag it to double
the size. ( I don't want to full screen, because the video is poor )THe question is, how I can let mplayer out double size, say 640*480Thank you fro you attention, any hint is helpful.--You will be surprised by a loud noise.
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Re: FYI: no video overlay support on recent Nvidia chips.

2005-11-13 Thread Bruno Hertz

khurram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Is there a workaround for this issue or has it been fixed?  It still  
> exists in Ubuntu breezy at least.
>
> Thx.

Not that I know of, but I didn't follow this issue recently. AFAIK,
it's related to chip design, so it probably can't be fixed. Except,
maybe, emulating hardware overlay support via the driver, which
apparently again would involve CPU cycles.

The best place for Nvidia/Linux related issues is btw the
corresponding forum
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=14

Here the thread I originally posted in July
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54336

and two more recent threads with complaints about the same issue
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54992
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=53984

So my guess is no, this isn't/can't/won't be fixed.

Bruno

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Nvidia failing on module-assistance (rivafb sanity check)

2005-11-13 Thread Cal Paterson

I'm trying to compile/install the non-free nvidia drivers through
module-assistant, but it bombs through a sanity-check complaining of
"rivafb" being installed, and that this can cause problems once the
drivers are installed.

I've asked a few people, and sent some stuff around, and found out
that my kernel (2.6.8-11-amd64-generic) doesn't have then installed,
but that they are enabled.

Apparently, having rivafb _enabled_ doesn't actually cause problems,
but that module-assistant will still fail the sanity-check, as though
they are installed.

I've been told to try two things:
1. Find a switch to disable this sanity check
(I can't one.  Is it possible that I'm mistaken?)

2. Find a new kernel/recompile a new kernel with rivafb completely removed.
(Which one should I use?  Should I use one from Debian, or should I
use a vanilla?)

Thanks a lot in advance for help, im relatively new to debian (and
even unix in general; sorry if this is a common question).
--
www.gnu.org

Re: changin XTerm colors

2005-11-13 Thread John L Fjellstad

Alvin Oga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> u forgot, didn't know (?) to do: 
>   xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources
>   ( it's buried in the docs too )

Nope, did that.   Still doesn't see any change.  Interesting enough, if
I do xrdb ~/.Xresources, I do get a color change but then everything
else changes too.  I really just want to merge the changes.  Does it
make any difference that I'm runnin Xorg on Sid?

-- 
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

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Re: changin XTerm colors

2005-11-13 Thread John L Fjellstad

Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Try putting them into ~/.Xdefaults
>
> I had to logout and back in for it to apply, but after that it was there 
> everytime :)

Tried, didn't work.
I'm running Sid, though with Xorg. Don't know if that makes a
difference.

-- 
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes


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Re: Wallpaper

2005-11-13 Thread j Mak

Hi Ken

Thanks for the link.

J. Mak


--- Ken Wahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.glatozen.org/wallpaper/debian.php
> 
> 
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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Carl Fink

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 11:16:27AM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
> Carl Fink wrote:

> >Why use a distro if you're going to have to manually install things anyway?
> > 
> That might make sense if we were just installing an OS but everyone 
> certainly has different needs in applications.

That's why I said "distro" (short for "distribution") and not "operating
system".

A selling point[1] of Debian has been how many applications are available
for it.  That stops working when the most-desired applications aren't
included.



[1]For some value of "selling" that applies to free things.
-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you attempt to fix something that isn't broken, it will be.
-Bruce Tognazzini


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unsubscribe

2005-11-13 Thread deb

unsubscribe


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Robert Brockway


On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Carl Fink wrote:

BTW, I think Sarge is more than just "usable" for desktops right now. 
What I fear as a long-time Debian user is that it'll have plenty of time 
to BECOME obsolete, because Etch won't be released until 2010 or 
something.  If Etch goes frozen by June of next year, the stable-only 
policy makes perfect sense.


I think you are spot on.  One of the reasons we love Debian is the 
rock solid stability.  The discussions leading up to the last freeze lead 
me to believe most users and developers want a release cycle faster than 
those in the past.  IMHO 12-18 months would be ideal.  I really think this 
is achievable without increasing the work load on the developers 
(something we can't ask).


Rob

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Re: usb printer disappeared (dist-upgrade?)

2005-11-13 Thread mikepolniak

On 21:28 Sun 13 Nov , Mario Frasca wrote:
> it seems quite stupid, I'm using to linux since 1993 more or less, but 
> all these modern graphic or automatic fluffs don't help me much...
> 
> well, the problem is that I cannot print any more.  cups did work and 
> the only cause I can think of is a dist-upgrade.
> 
> my printer is an epson stylus c46, connected via usb to an "flower 
> power" iMac of 2001.
> 
> yes, I'm running Debian GNU/linux, which distribution, well, that is a 
> problem.  I installed woody from cdroms, then I moved to sarge because 
> of the audio drivers, but my mistake was to actually move to "testing" 
> rather than the literal "sarge".  now I am on testing which is etch, if 
> I understood the logic.  I was trying to move back to sarge: to do that 
> I wrote some information into /etc/apt/preferences which probably was 
> not such a good idea (I got some unstable packages.!), anyways, this is 
> an other problem, let's go back to the printer...
> 
> it stopped working and my recovery procedures stopped working as well.
> I removed it, reinstalled, removed and purged, reinstalled, reiterated, 
> reconfigured, retried, but not recovered.  everything looks just perfect 
> as long as I don't try printing anything!
> 
> apt-get --purge remove cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint
> apt-get install cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint 
> cupsys-driver-gimpprint-data
> 
> I start cups and it says everything is all right.
> 
> Info epson stylus C46
> Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
> DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
> State Idle
> Accepting Yes
> JobSheets none none
> QuotaPeriod 0
> PageLimit 0
> KLimit 0
> 
> 
> so you say everything is all right, right, then print something!
> no.
> 
> Info epson stylus C46
> Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
> DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
> State Stopped
> StateMessage Unable to open USB device "usb:/dev/usb/lp0": No such device

Check /dev for lp0. You may have to link your lp0 -> /dev/usb/lp0


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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread John Hasler

Hugo Vanwoerkom writes:
> I read it carefully and being, how shall one say, not business oriented
> 8-p, what does it mean?

It means that the company that now calls itself "SCO" is an entirely
different company from the 1980s Unix company by that name.
-- 
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Re: Sound on Opliplex GX150

2005-11-13 Thread mulvihill


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> alsaconf did everything for me @ the same machine

Not for me I'm afraid. It looks like I really do have a hw problem.
But thanks anyway.

Ben


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Re: usb printer disappeared (dist-upgrade?)

2005-11-13 Thread David Goodenough

On Sunday 13 November 2005 20:28, Mario Frasca wrote:
> it seems quite stupid, I'm using to linux since 1993 more or less, but
> all these modern graphic or automatic fluffs don't help me much...
>
> well, the problem is that I cannot print any more.  cups did work and
> the only cause I can think of is a dist-upgrade.
>
> my printer is an epson stylus c46, connected via usb to an "flower
> power" iMac of 2001.
>
> yes, I'm running Debian GNU/linux, which distribution, well, that is a
> problem.  I installed woody from cdroms, then I moved to sarge because
> of the audio drivers, but my mistake was to actually move to "testing"
> rather than the literal "sarge".  now I am on testing which is etch, if
> I understood the logic.  I was trying to move back to sarge: to do that
> I wrote some information into /etc/apt/preferences which probably was
> not such a good idea (I got some unstable packages.!), anyways, this is
> an other problem, let's go back to the printer...
>
> it stopped working and my recovery procedures stopped working as well.
> I removed it, reinstalled, removed and purged, reinstalled, reiterated,
> reconfigured, retried, but not recovered.  everything looks just perfect
> as long as I don't try printing anything!
>
> apt-get --purge remove cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint
> apt-get install cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint
> cupsys-driver-gimpprint-data
>
> I start cups and it says everything is all right.
> 
> Info epson stylus C46
> Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
> DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
> State Idle
> Accepting Yes
> JobSheets none none
> QuotaPeriod 0
> PageLimit 0
> KLimit 0
> 
>
> so you say everything is all right, right, then print something!
> no.
> 
> Info epson stylus C46
> Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
> DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
> State Stopped
> StateMessage Unable to open USB device "usb:/dev/usb/lp0": No such device
I had a problem not unlike this.  For some reason the permissions on the 
/dev/usb/lp* devices were all the same EXCEPT lp0.  Make lp0 like the rest and
suddenly it works.

David
> Accepting Yes
> JobSheets none none
> QuotaPeriod 0
> PageLimit 0
> KLimit 0
> 
>
> this was what my system kept saying when it worked and when I tried to
> print without first switching the printer on
> but the printer _is_ on and the system does see it (/proc/bus/usb/devices):
> T:  Bus=02 Lev=02 Prnt=02 Port=02 Cnt=03 Dev#=  7 Spd=12  MxCh= 0
> D:  Ver= 1.10 Cls=00(>ifc ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs=  1
> P:  Vendor=04b8 ProdID=0005 Rev= 1.00
> S:  Manufacturer=EPSON
> S:  Product=USB Printer
> S:  SerialNumber=HU5QV0501172333510
> C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=c0 MxPwr=  2mA
> I:  If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 2 Cls=07(print) Sub=01 Prot=02 Driver=(none)
> E:  Ad=01(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS=  64 Ivl=0ms
> E:  Ad=82(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS=  64 Ivl=0ms
>
> what am I missing?
>
> ideas?
>
> thanks in advance,
> Mario
>
>
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Re: New Survey About SCO - Enter to Win

2005-11-13 Thread steef


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



*Whether you are a current SCO customer or not, we request your 
feedback.*


We want to learn how you use SCO UNIX (or have used it in the past).

/We only ask 5 easy questions, so it will take only a few minutes to 
complete./


Also, as our way of saying "Thank You", we'll enter your name in a 
drawing for *dozens of valuable prizes*.


Click on this line to begin the survey. 



*Using SCO UNIX Application Platforms*

Over the past several years, SCO has been re-engineering SCO UNIX 
(OpenServer and UnixWare) to be the most powerful, reliable, and 
secure operating system on Intel-compliant hardware. Now, we're ready 
to announce that SCO OpenServer 6 is more than just an operating 
system. SCO UNIX is now the most versitile applications platform on 
Intel-compliant hardware in the industry.


When you complete the survey, we'll give you a *FREE Applications 
Platform Solutions Guide for OpenServer 6*. Whether you still use SCO 
UNIX or not, this valuable free guide will help you more effectively 
utilize your business network systems.


You must complete this survey by November 30, 2005 to be eligible for 
these prizes. Remember, everyone who submits a completed survey will 
receive the *FREE Applications Platform Solutions Guide*.


Click on this line to begin the survey. 



Safely unsubscribe from The SCO Group e-mail at any time by clicking 
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why don't you just shut up from this list?

steef

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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

2005-11-13 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


John Hasler wrote:

I wrote, in part:


SCO changed its name to Tarantella and was recently acquired by Sun.



Seth Goodman writes:


So does that mean an end to their BS legal actions?



Read carefully.

1) Caldera purchased certain assets ("the Unix business") from Santa Cruz
   Operation (also then known as SCO).

2) Among the assets Caldera acquired from Santa Cruz Operation was the
   trademark "SCO".

3) Santa Cruz Operation changed its name to Tarantella and went on about
   its business.

4) Caldera brought suit against IBM.

5) Caldera changed its name to The SCO Group and started calling itself
   SCO.

6) Tarantella was recently acquired by Sun.



I read it carefully and being, how shall one say, not business oriented 
 8-p, what does it mean?


H


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usb printer disappeared (dist-upgrade?)

2005-11-13 Thread Mario Frasca

it seems quite stupid, I'm using to linux since 1993 more or less, but 
all these modern graphic or automatic fluffs don't help me much...


well, the problem is that I cannot print any more.  cups did work and 
the only cause I can think of is a dist-upgrade.


my printer is an epson stylus c46, connected via usb to an "flower 
power" iMac of 2001.


yes, I'm running Debian GNU/linux, which distribution, well, that is a 
problem.  I installed woody from cdroms, then I moved to sarge because 
of the audio drivers, but my mistake was to actually move to "testing" 
rather than the literal "sarge".  now I am on testing which is etch, if 
I understood the logic.  I was trying to move back to sarge: to do that 
I wrote some information into /etc/apt/preferences which probably was 
not such a good idea (I got some unstable packages.!), anyways, this is 
an other problem, let's go back to the printer...


it stopped working and my recovery procedures stopped working as well.
I removed it, reinstalled, removed and purged, reinstalled, reiterated, 
reconfigured, retried, but not recovered.  everything looks just perfect 
as long as I don't try printing anything!


apt-get --purge remove cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint
apt-get install cupsys cups-pdf cupsys-driver-gimpprint 
cupsys-driver-gimpprint-data


I start cups and it says everything is all right.

Info epson stylus C46
Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
State Idle
Accepting Yes
JobSheets none none
QuotaPeriod 0
PageLimit 0
KLimit 0


so you say everything is all right, right, then print something!
no.

Info epson stylus C46
Location usb://EPSON/Stylus C46
DeviceURI usb:/dev/usb/lp0
State Stopped
StateMessage Unable to open USB device "usb:/dev/usb/lp0": No such device
Accepting Yes
JobSheets none none
QuotaPeriod 0
PageLimit 0
KLimit 0


this was what my system kept saying when it worked and when I tried to 
print without first switching the printer on

but the printer _is_ on and the system does see it (/proc/bus/usb/devices):
T:  Bus=02 Lev=02 Prnt=02 Port=02 Cnt=03 Dev#=  7 Spd=12  MxCh= 0
D:  Ver= 1.10 Cls=00(>ifc ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs=  1
P:  Vendor=04b8 ProdID=0005 Rev= 1.00
S:  Manufacturer=EPSON
S:  Product=USB Printer
S:  SerialNumber=HU5QV0501172333510
C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=c0 MxPwr=  2mA
I:  If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 2 Cls=07(print) Sub=01 Prot=02 Driver=(none)
E:  Ad=01(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS=  64 Ivl=0ms
E:  Ad=82(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS=  64 Ivl=0ms

what am I missing?

ideas?

thanks in advance,
Mario


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Re: Ram memory after many days

2005-11-13 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom


gustavo halperin wrote:

Hello

I commonly use the next applications: Mozilla,  gnu-emacs, gv, xpdf and 
many xterminals.
The problem is that after many days without restart the system the 
memory grow a little more any day
and after aprox. 20 days I have all my 775MB occupied by the system and 
even if I close all
the applications the memory occupied still the same, just reboot the 
system free this memory.

My question is how release the memory that is not in use any more?



Try this:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/
for swap prefetching
or this:
http://iphitus.loudas.com/archck.php
same but with more things.

H


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Annoying Gnome problem

2005-11-13 Thread Nordbo

Hi,

For some time now I have been bothered by a problem when running Gnome
as my display manager. Whenever I try to do "su -" from a console I get
the following 5 warnings:

-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ su -
Password:
configuration error - unknown item 'QUOTAS_ENAB' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'NOLOGIN_STR' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'ENV_HZ' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'CHFN_AUTH' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'CLOSE_SESSIONS' (notify administrator)
hugin:~#
-

As far as I can tell, the only thing I did was call a apt-get dist-upgrade. Note that it does drop a root shell as asked. 

The problem with it is that it breaks the GUI access to every task in
the Administration menu (Boot, Disks, Networking, Printing, Services,
Shared Folders, Synaptic Package Manager, Time and Date, Users and
Groups) with the following error message:
--
Failed to run disks-admin as user root:
Failed to communicate with gksu-run-helper.
Received:
configuration error - unknown item 'QUOTAS_ENAB' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'NOLOGIN_STR' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'ENV_HZ' (notify administrator)
configuration error - unknown item 'CHFN_
While expecting:
gksu: waiting


As root I can run the commands as needed, so it must be the su functionality that has the problem. 

The question is how do I fix it so that the GUI options work?

Re: [Fwd: Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie]

2005-11-13 Thread steef


Hugh Lawson wrote:


steef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


 


i used 10 years ago wp5.1. never found a better
   



Get dosemu working, find your old wp5.1 install floppies, and you can use
wp5.1 under Linux.  See:

http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/linux.html

 


thanx!

steef

--
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journalist, publicist

groningen, netherlands


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re: debian lynx

2005-11-13 Thread Jude DaShiell

Problem solved, I forgot to put a check mark in the save options to disk 
checkbox.  Once that got done all worked as it had earlier this year.




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Re: Wallpaper

2005-11-13 Thread Maxim Vexler

On 11/13/05, Ken Wahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.glatozen.org/wallpaper/debian.php
>
>
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>
>

The following jpg was once posted on this list.
What I did was simply recolor the background so that it won't burn my
eyes and be usable as a wallpaper.

Check it out, quite nice actually :
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8499/seehearspeak10x68tw45mh.jpg

--
Cheers,
Maxim Vexler (hq4ever).

Do u GNU ?

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Bruce Hohl

--- Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 01:09:10PM +, Antony
> Gelberg wrote:
> 
> > Version 1 has perfectly adequate support for
> > linking to databases.  
> 
> Where you presumably mean "barely usable support if
> you're already a database expert"?  At least that's
> what *I* have.
> 
I intend to use OO Base with HSQL in place of MS
Access to *create* (not link) some single file
databases used for analytical analysis.  OO 2 appears
to implement this functionality in a clean and
reasonable manner (i.e. like MS Access).  This is an
important office software function.

> > In the time that you spent composing that post,
> > you could have searched the list archives and
> > learnt how to install it.  I doubt you could have
> > created any impressive documents in that time.
> 
> Why use a distro if you're going to have to
> manually install things anyway?
>  
Exactly!

Any who has used gnu+linux for a while understands the
potential danger of going outside one's distribution. 
(My download is in progress .. wish me luck!)

My original point:  OpenOffice 2.0 (while not perfect)
is an important piece of open source software.  IMHO
the Debian developers should get OO 2 into Testing
soon and create deb packages for Sarge.  (And if you
continue to doubt the importance of Office software
just consider what Office has done for Microsoft.)

__ 
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Re: spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Glenn English

On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 19:15 +, Adam Hardy wrote:

> Unfortunately the only blacklisting that murx does is to allow you to 
> build up your own blacklist - I want to use or connect to a public or 
> commercial blacklist database, such as the possibly mythical one I have 
> heard of (see above).

Would this work:

Set up your own MTA; receiving from the universe and sending via the
ISP .

Get the ISP to forward your mail (or use fetchmail if the ISP
can't/won't) so your email will come to your MTA as if it were coming
from the Internet. At this point, you have at least some control over
SMTP.

Use the spamhaus RBL(s) on the MTA for the DNS filter you're looking
for. Then use bogofilter, spamassassin, crm114, and anything else you
can think of to try to get rid of the rest.

?

-- 
Glenn English
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GPG ID: D0D7FF20

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Re: FYI: no video overlay support on recent Nvidia chips.

2005-11-13 Thread khurram



Is there a workaround for this issue or has it been fixed?  It still  
exists in Ubuntu breezy at least.


Thx.


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 02:36:05AM -0700, Scott wrote:
> Marc Wilson wrote:
> > if normal Debian practices are being followed, security fixes
> >are backported to stable, rather than new and untested versions being
> >packaged for stable.
> 
> Now that you mention it, Ubuntu used to do this the same way till they
> came to their senses (and after a bajillion user complaints).

You are wrong there. Ubuntu sticks to their guns with versioning for
released distros as far as I am aware. Both debian and ubuntu have been
forced to ship newer firefoxes as security releases, because upstream's
culture is to bundle their security updates with new features in a
single release. It has proven too difficult for the existing security
teams to determine precicely which changes in a very large changeset are
related to the vulnerability, so their hand was forced.

-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/

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Re: Is Debian ready for the desktop?

On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 07:50:09PM -0800, John L Fjellstad wrote:
> John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Caldera did not merge with SCO.  They purchased some assets from SCO
> > (including the SCO trademark) and then changed their name to The SCO Group.
> > SCO changed its name to Tarantella and was recently acquired by Sun.
> 
> Still doesn't change the fact that Corel has nothing to do with SCO

What is this, "my dad's bigger than your dad"? - you supply something
interesting, he supplies something interesting, it's not a bloody
competition.

-- 
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http://jon.dowland.name/


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Re: spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Clive Menzies

On (13/11/05 19:15), Adam Hardy wrote:
> >Adam Hardy([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> >
> >>I googled for this extensively and come up with nothing - I'm looking 
> >>for a hard-core spam blacklist to remove the spam from my POP3 mailbox 
> >>before I download it.
> >>
> >>I'm using a PDA alot and the primitive software on it doesn't include 
> >>any filtering, nor does my provider who runs the mailserver offer 
> >>anything.
> >>
> >>I heard that there is company offering some subscription service where 
> >>they run a database of spam mail originating IP addresses, maintained on 
> >>a continual basis by customers using (grit your teeth) an Outlook 
> >>extension to submit new spam for blacklisting at any time.
> >>
My experience of ISP controlled spam filtering is not great; you are
probably better off setting up a local solution.

> >>This is automated so that customers who frequently correctly identify 
> >>spam gain a ranking - customers with really high rankings can cause a 
> >>new spammer to be filtered out within seconds.
> >>
> >>Anyone heard of it, or an urban myth?
> >>
> >>After finding nothing on google, I think I might be wrong about it being 
> >>a pop3 mailbox cleaner. Perhaps it's Outlook-only.
> 
> Unfortunately the only blacklisting that murx does is to allow you to 
> build up your own blacklist - I want to use or connect to a public or 
> commercial blacklist database, such as the possibly mythical one I have 
> heard of (see above).

Spamassassin, sa-exim and clamav (if you want virus checking as well)
work well together.  I wrote some notes on setting up a mail server
which collects pop3 mail froma number of ISP's.  The mail filtering
would apply to a desktop situation.

http://www.clivemenzies.co.uk/selfhelp/MailServer.html

Regards

Clive

-- 
www.clivemenzies.co.uk ...
...strategies for business



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Re: Ram memory after many days

2005-11-13 Thread Ticiano Diniz





Hi,

I think that's nothing wrong. It's just the way Linux manages memory.
Linux uses available memory as cache so if you need that information again you can
get it faster. That memory is still available to other programs as needed.

Ticciano





Hello

 I commonly use the next applications: Mozilla,  gnu-emacs, gv, xpdf and 
many xterminals.
The problem is that after many days without restart the system the 
memory grow a little more any day
and after aprox. 20 days I have all my 775MB occupied by the system and 
even if I close all
the applications the memory occupied still the same, just reboot the 
system free this memory.
 My question is how release the memory that is not in use any more?

 Thank you in advance

  Gustavo Halperin

By the way, I'm using Debian Sarge with MW Enlightenment  without KDE or 
Gnome

Re: spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Adam Hardy


Wayne Topa on 13/11/05 18:44, wrote:

Adam Hardy([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:

I googled for this extensively and come up with nothing - I'm looking 
for a hard-core spam blacklist to remove the spam from my POP3 mailbox 
before I download it.


I'm using a PDA alot and the primitive software on it doesn't include 
any filtering, nor does my provider who runs the mailserver offer anything.


I heard that there is company offering some subscription service where 
they run a database of spam mail originating IP addresses, maintained on 
a continual basis by customers using (grit your teeth) an Outlook 
extension to submit new spam for blacklisting at any time.


This is automated so that customers who frequently correctly identify 
spam gain a ranking - customers with really high rankings can cause a 
new spammer to be filtered out within seconds.


Anyone heard of it, or an urban myth?

After finding nothing on google, I think I might be wrong about it being 
a pop3 mailbox cleaner. Perhaps it's Outlook-only.



apt-cache show mailfilter

Removes spam at the server so you don't have to download it.  Uses
Allow, Deny, Scoring regex rules to mark spam for deletion.

There is also a new spinoff called murx which allows more options in the
'spam' filtering.  A debian package is available .



Unfortunately the only blacklisting that murx does is to allow you to 
build up your own blacklist - I want to use or connect to a public or 
commercial blacklist database, such as the possibly mythical one I have 
heard of (see above).




Adam


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Ram memory after many days

2005-11-13 Thread gustavo halperin


Hello

I commonly use the next applications: Mozilla,  gnu-emacs, gv, xpdf and 
many xterminals.
The problem is that after many days without restart the system the 
memory grow a little more any day
and after aprox. 20 days I have all my 775MB occupied by the system and 
even if I close all
the applications the memory occupied still the same, just reboot the 
system free this memory.

My question is how release the memory that is not in use any more?

Thank you in advance

 Gustavo Halperin

By the way, I'm using Debian Sarge with MW Enlightenment  without KDE or 
Gnome



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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Ron Johnson

On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 16:50 -0700, Scott wrote:
> Kent West wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>3- OpenOffice 2 was recently added to Debian Unstable.
> >>Is it likely that OpenOffice 2 will be added to
> >>Debian Stable.  If so when?
> >> 
> >>
> > 
> > No. Stable does not get new packages, other than bug/security fixes and
> > the like.
> 
> And that my friends, is Debian's biggest flaw when it comes to the

You're missing the point of what "stable" means.

Because I want the "latest and greatest", I also use Sid, but don't
complain about Stable not having the "latest and greatest", because
I understand what Stable (in this context) means: unchanging set
of software, with only security patches added.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA
PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail.

"I need an expert on the pain I'm goin' thru, so I keep George on
the ol' turn table 'till I'm over you..."
Mark Chesnutt, "Just Playin' Possum"


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Re: spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Wayne Topa

Adam Hardy([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> I googled for this extensively and come up with nothing - I'm looking 
> for a hard-core spam blacklist to remove the spam from my POP3 mailbox 
> before I download it.
> 
> I'm using a PDA alot and the primitive software on it doesn't include 
> any filtering, nor does my provider who runs the mailserver offer anything.
> 
> I heard that there is company offering some subscription service where 
> they run a database of spam mail originating IP addresses, maintained on 
> a continual basis by customers using (grit your teeth) an Outlook 
> extension to submit new spam for blacklisting at any time.
> 
> This is automated so that customers who frequently correctly identify 
> spam gain a ranking - customers with really high rankings can cause a 
> new spammer to be filtered out within seconds.
> 
> Anyone heard of it, or an urban myth?
> 
> After finding nothing on google, I think I might be wrong about it being 
> a pop3 mailbox cleaner. Perhaps it's Outlook-only.

apt-cache show mailfilter

Removes spam at the server so you don't have to download it.  Uses
Allow, Deny, Scoring regex rules to mark spam for deletion.

There is also a new spinoff called murx which allows more options in the
'spam' filtering.  A debian package is available .

WT
-- 
Why do we want intelligent terminals when there are so many stupid
users?
___


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Kazkoks www.Intymas.com atsirado..

2005-11-13 Thread Informacija









 

Kažkoks www.Intymas.com
atsirado..

 

Gal kas nors paaiškins kas čia
per saitas??? 

 

* Geriau nesilankyt jei nėra 18..

Re: [Fwd: Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie]

2005-11-13 Thread Hugh Lawson

steef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


> i used 10 years ago wp5.1. never found a better

Get dosemu working, find your old wp5.1 install floppies, and you can use
wp5.1 under Linux.  See:

http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/linux.html

-- 
Hugh Lawson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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spam blacklist pop3 solution

2005-11-13 Thread Adam Hardy

I googled for this extensively and come up with nothing - I'm looking 
for a hard-core spam blacklist to remove the spam from my POP3 mailbox 
before I download it.


I'm using a PDA alot and the primitive software on it doesn't include 
any filtering, nor does my provider who runs the mailserver offer anything.


I heard that there is company offering some subscription service where 
they run a database of spam mail originating IP addresses, maintained on 
a continual basis by customers using (grit your teeth) an Outlook 
extension to submit new spam for blacklisting at any time.


This is automated so that customers who frequently correctly identify 
spam gain a ranking - customers with really high rankings can cause a 
new spammer to be filtered out within seconds.


Anyone heard of it, or an urban myth?

After finding nothing on google, I think I might be wrong about it being 
a pop3 mailbox cleaner. Perhaps it's Outlook-only.


Adam


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Paul Scott


Carl Fink wrote:


On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 01:09:10PM +, Antony Gelberg wrote:
 


In the time that you spent composing that post, you could have searched
the list archives and learnt how to install it.  I doubt you could have
created any impressive documents in that time.
   



Why use a distro if you're going to have to manually install things anyway?
 

That might make sense if we were just installing an OS but everyone 
certainly has different needs in applications.


Paul Scott



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Re: Wallpaper

2005-11-13 Thread Ken Wahl

http://www.glatozen.org/wallpaper/debian.php


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Re: Wallpaper

j Mak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to retrieve the  Debian usplash (black
> with the red swirl on the left) from the installation
> cd because I want to use it as a wallpaper, but I
> cannot find it. Could anyone tell me where is it
> located, I mean in what folder.

I don't believe it's in any folder, unless you also installed
debian-installer to your hard drive.  You piqued my curiosity, so I
downloaded the debian-installer source and poked around in it and found
the file.

It does make pretty cool wallpaper.

-- 
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www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Michael Marsh

On 11/13/05, Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert Brockway wrote:
> > It's normal for the Debian security team to backport changes into the
> > existing code base in Debian.  Thus I expect the Firefox 1.04 to be the
> > vanilla source 1.04 plus backported security fixes.  This is a _good_
> > thing as it means less changes on an update.  This is one of the
> > strengths of the Debian approach.
>
> Perhaps, but it's also confusing to anyone coming to Debian from another
> Linux distro.   Let's just hope they *properly* update the user agent
> string..
>
> I say, that approach is fine, but why not show the right freakin version
> number?  Even if they didn't have to backport, patching would be simpler
> than starting over from scratch anyway.Heck the next version of
> Firefox will do it that way anyway (assuming one is using a version
> downloaded from Mozilla, that is).

There's actually a very good reason.  If the version number is
1.0.4-[patchlevel], it's reasonable to assume that the extensions and
plugins API/ABI hasn't changed.  I don't recall there being a change
between 1.0.4 and 1.0.7, but there *might* have been.  Also, sarge is
getting the security patches, not necessarily all of the feature
patches.  Imagine the nightmare of trying to figure out via the
Mozilla forums why feature X doesn't work in your installation of
1.0.7 when what you really have is 1.0.4+backported security fixes
from .5, .6, and .7.

In short, the patched version of Firefox in sarge is *not* 1.0.7, so
calling it 1.0.7 would be a mistake.

--
Michael A. Marsh
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh
http://mamarsh.blogspot.com

Where to download Debian 1.2?

2005-11-13 Thread Manou J.M. Eifes


Hello,

Does anyone know where I can download a full version of Debian 1.2 or 
getting an ISO-image of a cd that contains Debian 1.2? Or could someone send
me a copy of the Infomagic CD-ROM (december 1996), that contains Debian 1.2 
or an ftp-server that holds the CD-ROM as an ISO-image.


I need  Debian 1.2 for a personal project. I want to try severel different 
old Debian versions on an old computer.


Cheers,
Manou



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Re: downloading from web

BingYU wrote:
> Download all do the job
> neat and easy to use 
> Thank you!

You're welcome. It's one of my faves.

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© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Antony Gelberg wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> 
>>How about some more noise.
>>
>>The full and correct URL please?
>>
>>Is this perhaps what you meant?: http://www.debian.org/doc/
> 
> 
> http://www.debian.org/releases
> 

Thanks!  I'd actually seen that before but had forgotten where. :-) It's
nice to review again.  I picked up more information this time.

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Re: [Fwd: Re: can't remove dir]

2005-11-13 Thread kamaraju kusumanchi


Paul Johnson wrote:


kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:

 


Please keep replies on the list and also please bottom post to messages. I
am forwarding your email to the list.
   



Bottom posting isn't always the answer, and if you're going to lecture
someone about bad quoting style, you might want to follow good practice
yourself.

http://ursine.ca/Top_Posting
 




Regarding my posting the last email on the top. This could be the 
situation :- You can notice that my initial reply was at the bottom to 
Anton's email.  You can see that at 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2005/11/msg01560.html .  To this 
email, Eduardo Rocha Costa sent me a personal email by posting at the 
top. I forwarded that reply to the list thinking that the reply would be 
useful for others.


Now when I forward some email, it is usually sent as an attachment and 
some email clients have this habit of showing the text attachments at 
the bottom of the actual email which is why you saw my post as top posting.


I still think I follow reasonably good quoting style. But if you still 
have any suggestions, I would be happy to correct myself.


bye
raju


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Antony Gelberg wrote:
>
> Help yourself out by reading the debian-security-announce list.  

That one I subbed to when I noticed it was there.

>Also
> available on Usenet as linux.debian.announce.security (yes, the words
> are swapped which is confusing).  Also read follow-ups and other
> discussion on debian-security / linux.debian.security.

Thanks for that tip.
> 
> I also trust that as you're running unstable, you are following
> debian-devel-announce / linux.debian.announce.devel.

I am now. ;-)

Thanks!

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Re: Re: ftp fails first time when using apt-get

2005-11-13 Thread surachai

Hi
  I have the same problem. I can use nslookup, host or dig to resolve name. 
but I cannot use apt-get to resolve name at the first time. However If I use 
nslookup, host, or dig. apt-get can resolve that name. it like a cache on 
system. 

FYI


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Carl Fink

BTW, I think Sarge is more than just "usable" for desktops right now.  What
I fear as a long-time Debian user is that it'll have plenty of time to
BECOME obsolete, because Etch won't be released until 2010 or something.  If
Etch goes frozen by June of next year, the stable-only policy makes perfect
sense.
-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you attempt to fix something that isn't broken, it will be.
-Bruce Tognazzini


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Carl Fink

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 01:09:10PM +, Antony Gelberg wrote:

> Version 1 has perfectly adequate support for linking to databases.  

Where you presumably mean "barely usable support if you're already a
database expert"?  At least that's what *I* have.

> In the time that you spent composing that post, you could have searched
> the list archives and learnt how to install it.  I doubt you could have
> created any impressive documents in that time.

Why use a distro if you're going to have to manually install things anyway?
-- 
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you attempt to fix something that isn't broken, it will be.
-Bruce Tognazzini


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Re: Many packages missing from testing

2005-11-13 Thread C. Hurschler

On Sunday 13 November 2005 02:49, loos wrote:
> Em Sáb, 2005-11-12 às 14:47 +0100, Christof Hurschler escreveu:
> > On Saturday 12 November 2005 01:21, Johan Kullstam wrote:
> > > Exactly.  I was using "testing" for a while and got tired of losing
> > > when a package broke and wouldn't get fixed for ages.
> > >
> > > Of course, a savvy user could default to testing and drag in unstable
> > > (with whatever pre-reqs) whenever a breakage occured.  Perhaps this
> > > method could be made more known.
> >
> > Wouldn't pinning work very well in this case to allow a mixed
> > testing/unstable system?  The trouble packages can then be installed from
> > unstable using the -t option, with the majority of the rest of the system
> > runs at a testing level (for example all the non GUI stuff).
>
> The times I tried this, the broken packages never "naturally" got back
> to testing, they continued following the unstable version even after a
> version got back to testing.
> The testing/unstable solution, is usually quite "unstable" (not in the
> Debian sense, in the programs sense).
>
> Michel.

This is actually the way pinning should work if I understand it correctly.  
The package in question gets pinned at unstable and stays there until you 
intervene, that is until you reinstall it withthout a -t option at which 
point it would return to the default level.

Chris

-- 
C. Hurschler

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Jollans

Scott wrote:

>Kent West wrote:
>  
>
>>
>>
>>>3- OpenOffice 2 was recently added to Debian Unstable.
>>>Is it likely that OpenOffice 2 will be added to
>>>Debian Stable.  If so when?
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>No. Stable does not get new packages, other than bug/security fixes and
>>the like.
>>
>>
>
>And that my friends, is Debian's biggest flaw when it comes to the
>desktop user.  It's also why I'll never run stable
>  
>
I don't believe that the average desktop user requires the latest
software. Sarge is a perfectly functional and exceptionally stable
system an adequately simple user interface. However, I am not currently
using sarge, and this of course has its reasons. It is simply what I am
used to, which is GNOME >= 2.10, especially with its automounting
features.  So, I am using ubuntu for the time being because I got fed up
with using sid for everything that worked on sid and resorting o stable
for the rest. ubuntu provides me with a reasonable amount of stability
and gnome's automounting feature which I have grown to love.


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Re: Many packages missing from testing

On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 11:37:49PM -0700, Scott wrote:


_please_ trim your quotes. :)

-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/


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Re: Window manager/desktop environment that's not RAM-intensive

2005-11-13 Thread Tom Allison


Robert Waldner wrote:

Hi!

I'm currently converting the SOs laptop to Debian. Problem is that
 it's rather underpowered in terms of RAM - 128 MB and no chance of 
 upgrading.


WMaker uses ~4MB of RAM, less than emacs under X.
Very fast, lean, and with a nice number of features.
Technically it is not a real Integrated Desktop Environment like KDE and 
Gnome, but I'm personally not suffering from the difference.


I guess I can't double click on some file and have it launch some 
application but that kind of integration, at least under Windows, seems 
to have introduced a lot of bugs and security problems.  But it's 
probable that my household of users is an exception to the demographics 
of the common user.



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[Fwd: Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie]

2005-11-13 Thread steef

 Original Message 
Subject:Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie
Resent-Date:Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:40:36 -0600 (CST)
Resent-From:debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date:   Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:22:44 -0500
From:   Mark Grieveson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Debian List 

OpenOffice 2.0 is an important piece of software...added 
OpenOffice.org 2, to their updates repository shortly after it's 
release...it likely will drive choice of distribution/version

I'm pretty tired of reading about OpenOffice 2.0.  I still prefer 
WordPerfect 6.1, to be honest, and it was released years ago.  What is 
it with Linux word processors that they can't have a grammar check?  
Heck, WordPerfect 6.1 was released ages ago with one.  But I digress.  
To my main point:  I'm a desktop user, not a programmer, and I had no 
problem installing the "oh-so-special" OpenOffice 2.0 on my 
Sarge-running computer.  So, my question is, what is all this fuss 
about?  Installing OpenOffice 2.0 on Sarge is a breeze.  Stop whining 
about nothing.

And now back to my first digression:  I realize that Abiword's latest 
has a grammar check (coincidentally, I also had no problem installing 
the latest Abiword on Sarge, which means anyone could install it, the 
newest of the new, on Sarge).  However, it fell far short of WordPerfect 
6.1's Grammatik (released just as mankind was picking up sticks and 
learning to beat the Monolith, I believe).  Likewise, Diction, a Unix 
tool, has been around forever; so, why do Linux word processors not have 
something that Windows word processors have had since mankind first 
realized the significance of having an opposable digit?

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..i agree completely . i too am fed up with the fuss about and around 
openoffice.2.0. is very aesy to install if 'you' know anything about dpkg, 
debian etc.
i used 10 years ago wp5.1. never found a better and  more democratic 
'tekstverwerker' after although openoffice 2.0 runs smooth.

steef

--
steef van duin
journalist, publicist

groningen, netherlands

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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 02:42:25AM -0700, Scott wrote:
> Robert Brockway wrote:
> > It's normal for the Debian security team to backport changes into
> > the existing code base in Debian.  Thus I expect the Firefox 1.04 to
> > be the vanilla source 1.04 plus backported security fixes.  This is
> > a _good_ thing as it means less changes on an update.  This is one
> > of the strengths of the Debian approach.
> 
> Perhaps, but it's also confusing to anyone coming to Debian from
> another Linux distro.   

I don't see why: the ship the version they state they do, and fix
security problems as they arise. Very logical to me. If people really
expect either security problems to sit unfixed, then I think they have
been set a pretty low standard by whatever other distro they've come
via.

> Let's just hope they *properly* update the user agent string..

I don't think the UA should be used to describe security patch levels.

-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/

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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 04:50:50PM -0700, Scott wrote:
> Kent West wrote:
> > No. Stable does not get new packages, other than bug/security fixes
> > and the like.
> 
> And that my friends, is Debian's biggest flaw when it comes to the
> desktop user.  It's also why I'll never run stable

I think quite a lot of people are very happy to use stable on desktop
systems. Most people who aren't are not typical desktop users
themselves, but geeks or enthusiasts who want new-fangled stuff. For
day-to-day office tasks and the like, a rock-solid base, where the
layout of buttons etc. doesn't change every other week, is infinitely
more desirable.

As the notion of desktop user moves further and further away from the
legacy of windows, and the levels of stability that brought with it, 

> At least Ubuntu promises you won't have to wait more than 6 months for
> the next stable release.

Indeed, although I'll reserve judgement on their definition of stable
until its been around a bit longer.

> And there's Fedora Core, who's latest release has been out for several
> months.  They added OpenOffice.org 2, to their  updates repository
> shortly after it's release.

Fedora Core is nowhere near comparable in terms of stability to debian,
so their legacy of releases and software versions is not worth
attempting to live up to.

-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/

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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

2005-11-13 Thread Mark Crean


Scott wrote:


[snip]

What Debian (or SOMEBODY please) needs is a new "stable" release at
least once a year with security updates, bugfixes AND *major* software
package (i.e 1.5 to 2.0, 3.6-4.0) updates to that release as the next
release is being simultaneously developed.

Wait, there is one I can think of, but unfortunately they utilize this
software called YUM and hand have a gazillion packages but Debian has a
gazillion and a half.

Don't get me wrong, I'm here because I felt etch/sid would be what I
wanted.  They are, except unlike the previously mentioned distro, I'm
much more "on my own" when it comes to security updates.   On the other
hand,  I've yet to be affected by "Joe Blow, Hobart, Tasmania,
discovered a buffer overrun if you disable the flex capacitor in  on rainy
Thursdays" :-)

So I get my latest and greatest and takes my chances.  I'm just saying
it doesn't have to be that way.

And that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. I'm sorry I
brought it up.

 

Don't be sorry. Change doesn't happen if everyone stays silent. 
Everything changes, and it's possible that the Linux scene has changed 
over the past few years too. There was a time when platform stability 
was a much rarer beast and Debian Stable meant something head and 
shoulders above the rest. These days stability is becoming much more of 
a given, as other distros have increasingly got their act together, and 
the notion of Debian Stable is perhaps not as valuable and exclusive as 
it once was.


I also run SuSE and have done for a few years now. It is normally every 
bit as stable as Debian Stable and security updates are often faster as 
well. The software on SuSE is generally a lot more recent. Of course, 
you can point out that SuSE lacks apt and so it is wipe and install 
again when a new version appears (although SUSE releases have been 
supported for two years after launch, and in some cases it is possible 
simply to upgrade). However, this is a different issue from stability 
per se.


I suspect that Debian probably will need to change its policy on 
releases and it's software tree generally if it wishes to remain 
relevent in the coming years. In the meantime, having tried all three 
releases, I have settled on Sid. It's for desktop use, and the Linux 
desktop is still rapidly improving in all sorts of ways. Cutting myself 
off from that by using Stable is not an attractive option for me. Some 
of the comments on here about folks "deserving everything they get" and 
so forth if they do not run Stable are highly unattractive and reinforce 
negative attitudes about Debian. Since I'd like to make Debian my OS 
from here on in, this pains me.


:)

Fish


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Re:

2005-11-13 Thread Clint Harshaw


ericradt wrote:

hi
i am set 'emacs.geometry:69x31'
in .Xresources for emacs
when i open some file
some word  more a row
so that  i can't see some word in one row
thank you





I'm not sure that I understand your question, but it sounds like you're 
having trouble with the size of emacs when it opens. I don't have a 
.Xresources file on my Sarge system, but use .emacs in my home directory 
to customize my emacs for work.


Here is the related section from my .emacs file that might help:

;; Customize the size of the emacs window
(set-frame-height (selected-frame) 70)
(set-frame-width (selected-frame) 170)

Hope this helps,
Clint











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Re: changin XTerm colors

2005-11-13 Thread Alvin Oga



On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Andreas Rippl wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 08:58:23AM -0800, John L Fjellstad wrote:
> > I tried to change the XTerm colors by putting these lines in my
> > ~/.Xresources file:
> > XTerm*Background: black
> > XTerm*Foreground: white
> > 
> > But it has no effect.  Anyone know what the problem is?

u forgot, didn't know (?) to do: 
xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources
( it's buried in the docs too )

than
xterm

and now for fun ..
- try changing the fonts
- than colorize your prompts
- or add /home/rippl#  to the title bar
- or gazillion billion other silly options

> alias xterm='xterm -bg black -fg white' 
> has always worked fine.

it'd better :-)

c ya
alvin


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Re: [Fwd: Re: can't remove dir]

2005-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson

kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:

> Please keep replies on the list and also please bottom post to messages. I
> am forwarding your email to the list.

Bottom posting isn't always the answer, and if you're going to lecture
someone about bad quoting style, you might want to follow good practice
yourself.

http://ursine.ca/Top_Posting

-- 
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Version numbers and backporting [was Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie]

2005-11-13 Thread Robert Brockway


[Discussion on Debian version numbers and backporting]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Scott wrote:


Perhaps, but it's also confusing to anyone coming to Debian from another
Linux distro.   Let's just hope they *properly* update the user agent
string..

I say, that approach is fine, but why not show the right freakin version


Because the version is 1.04 not 1.07.  Changing the version number to 1.07 
when an app is really 1.04 with backported fixes would be bad bad.  The 
version number can define features, defaults, bugs and behaviour.


Cheers,

Rob

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Re: changin XTerm colors

2005-11-13 Thread Andreas Rippl

On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 08:58:23AM -0800, John L Fjellstad wrote:
> I tried to change the XTerm colors by putting these lines in my
> ~/.Xresources file:
> XTerm*Background: black
> XTerm*Foreground: white
> 
> But it has no effect.  Anyone know what the problem is?  According to
> XTerm manual, this should work.  Oh, and I tried changing the names
> (Background to background etc. No effect).  
> -- 
> John L. Fjellstad
> web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
> 
> 
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Hi John,

the .Xdefaults solution is probably the preferred way to solve your
problem, but for me an alias in my .bashrc like

alias xterm='xterm -bg black -fg white'

has always worked fine.

Hth
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 Key-ID: 0x81073379


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Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Marc Wilson wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 04:55:36PM -0700, Scott wrote:
> 
>>Marc Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>OpenOffice.org 2 will never be added to Debian stable.  Instead, the next
>>>time there is a stable release (Etch), OpenOffice.org 2 will be included.
>>
>>And then OpenOffice.0rg 3, Firefox 2.0, GIMP 3.0, GNOME 2.16, and KDE
>>4.0 will be released within the following month discouraging many from
>>sticking with Debian stable
> 
> 
> Which is no one's problem but their own. 

Which is all that matters (or doesn't) to "them".

>Despite what the average cluebie
> believes, software does not come with a magic expiration date.

No agrument there, often times I've stuck with a program because I
didn't like what the "new and improved" version brought me.

> They use something other than stable, they deserve what happens to them.
> That's why they're not releases.  'Nuff said.

Or they find a distro that can produce a stable version in less than
three years.  There are a number of them. It's really not at all unsual...

Oh, now I'm done.

-- 
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Steve Lamb wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> 
>>And then OpenOffice.0rg 3, Firefox 2.0, GIMP 3.0, GNOME 2.16, and KDE
>>4.0 will be released within the following month discouraging many from
>>sticking with Debian stable
> 
> 
> You still misunderstand.  The point is there is no one standing there with
> a gun to their head forcing said people to stick to stable.  *NO ONE*. 

Considering I'm *not* running stable, I understand perfectly.  Where
have I implied I was?

> The  point of stable is that the *version numbers are.  STABLE!*  If they 
> want
> all the goodies they are perfectly capable of moving up the tree to testing or
> unstable.

What Debian (or SOMEBODY please) needs is a new "stable" release at
least once a year with security updates, bugfixes AND *major* software
package (i.e 1.5 to 2.0, 3.6-4.0) updates to that release as the next
release is being simultaneously developed.

Wait, there is one I can think of, but unfortunately they utilize this
software called YUM and hand have a gazillion packages but Debian has a
gazillion and a half.

Don't get me wrong, I'm here because I felt etch/sid would be what I
wanted.  They are, except unlike the previously mentioned distro, I'm
much more "on my own" when it comes to security updates.   On the other
hand,  I've yet to be affected by "Joe Blow, Hobart, Tasmania,
discovered a buffer overrun if you disable the flex capacitor in  on rainy
Thursdays" :-)

So I get my latest and greatest and takes my chances.  I'm just saying
it doesn't have to be that way.

And that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. I'm sorry I
brought it up.

-- 
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Scott wrote:
> 
>> I was absolutely blown away by this:
>>
>> The latest official Debian Sarge package for Firefox is for v 1.04!
>> http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/m/mozilla-firefox/
>>
>> I'm rather surprised to see this.  Why?
>>
>> Firefox is currently @ 1.07 and every "point" release since 1.0 has been
>> due to security issues.
> 
> 
> It's normal for the Debian security team to backport changes into the
> existing code base in Debian.  Thus I expect the Firefox 1.04 to be the
> vanilla source 1.04 plus backported security fixes.  This is a _good_
> thing as it means less changes on an update.  This is one of the
> strengths of the Debian approach.

Perhaps, but it's also confusing to anyone coming to Debian from another
Linux distro.   Let's just hope they *properly* update the user agent
string..

I say, that approach is fine, but why not show the right freakin version
number?  Even if they didn't have to backport, patching would be simpler
than starting over from scratch anyway.Heck the next version of
Firefox will do it that way anyway (assuming one is using a version
downloaded from Mozilla, that is).

-- 
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: A few general questions from a Debian newbie

Marc Wilson wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 08:33:00PM -0700, Scott wrote:
> 
>>The latest official Debian Sarge package for Firefox is for v 1.04!
>>http://security.debian.org/pool/updates/main/m/mozilla-firefox/

> if normal Debian practices are being followed,
> security fixes are backported to stable, rather than new and untested
> versions being packaged for stable.
> This means that the v1.04 available from s.d.o would have v1.07's security
> fixes in it.  I'm sure you can review the package changelog to find out for
> sure.

Now that you mention it, Ubuntu used to do this the same way till they
came to their senses (and after a bajillion user complaints).

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www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2005 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

Re: aic7xxx driver floppy for sarge

2005-11-13 Thread Seeker5528

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:31:10 -0800
David Kirchner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> This may sound like a stupid question, answered in some FAQ somewhere,
> but I just can't find it. Does anyone know which Sarge floppy image
> contains the aic7xxx SCSI driver?
> 

From here:

http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-i386/current//images/MANIFEST

floppy/cd-drivers.img   -- CD drivers, including all SCSI

: I'm thinking if your cdrom drive is bootable you should just be able
to boot from there instead of messing with floppy images.

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch03s06.html.en#boot-dev-select

If you are not able to set the SCSI CD as the boot device for some
reason (as opposed to booting then failing to run) then you could always
make a floppy for Smart Boot Manager and from it's boot menu select CD
as the drive you want to boot.

http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/

Later, Seeker

Re: Strange problem of /dev/cdrom disappearing under sid

Dang, what did you do right? I had virtually the same problem a few days
ago, posted about it and it took a day to get a (albeit very friendly)
response! :-)

I'm still trying to work on the problem though.  I've not found a solution.


Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm experiencing a really strange issue there, with a laptop under a
> fresh sid system (installed from scratch two days ago).
> 
> The laptop is an ASUS W3V, the CDROM device is a CDRW/DVD+R writer
> combo.

In my case it's a ABS M64 desktop, but I don't think that matters much.
> 
> First of all, the CDROM device works great: I can boot on the Sarge
> netinst CDROM, moreover it's well seen in the BIOS.

Exactly!

> 
> Everything looks ok for the hardware: I can open it and when I put a CD
> media inside, the device starts cycling it as expected.

Yep

> 
> Note that I used to use it for burning CDRWs and DVDs and for reading
> CDROM/DVDROM media. It used to work perfectly.

Mine worked great (very recently) under Ubuntu 5.04, 5.10 and Fedora Core 4.

> 
> Since I had a problem with my hard disk (the partition table got
> corrupted during a crash), I had to reinstall a new system.

Similar here, that's when I switched from Fedora Core to Debian etch.
> 
> I used the Sarge 3.1 netinst CDROM (so I booted on it), then
> dist-upgraded to Sid.

Very similar here,  I used Sarge CD-1, just to get a base install done.
Then I did a dist-upgrade and then installed the etch packages I wanted.
But in my case everything worked fine for a while and then the CD-ROM
(well DVD-ROM, actually) drives no longer functioned.
> 
> By now, everything looks like I don't have any CDROM device:

Yep. Same here.
> 
> - The first thing I find really weird is that dmesg does not show any
> information about my CDROM device. There is simply nothing about it.

Exactly!  It shows shows my external hard drive, my USB devices, my two
internal hard drives, but no mention of the DVD drives at all. It's like
they just vanished.

> 
> - under udev, I just don't have /dev/hdc, neither the symlink /dev/cdrom

Mine are

ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*",SYMLINK+="cdrom%e"
ENV{ID_CDROM_CD_RW}=="?*",  SYMLINK+="cdrw%e"
ENV{ID_CDROM_DVD}=="?*",SYMLINK+="dvd%e"
ENV{ID_CDROM_DVD_R}=="?*",  SYMLINK+="dvdrw%e"
> 
> - under hotplug, I have /dev/hdc but cannot mount any device: "not a
> valid block device". Moreover, eject does not work neither: "cannot
> open /dev/hdc".
> 
> - cdrecord -scanbus shows nothing.

Ditto...
> 
> Now the very strange part:
> If I boot on a 2.4.27 Debian kernel, the CDROM is seen, dmesg speaks
> about it...
> 
> I'm investigating for more than 2 days now, and I would really welcome
> any idea that could help me getting back the device.
> 

I had done that initially but upgraded to a 2.6 later and (as I stated
previously) the drives still worked for a time.  I think when I upgraded
the kernel again is when the problem appeared.

If you figure this out *please* let me know how you did it.  With luck
I'll have it figured out by then, but just in case

Thanks.

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www.angrykeyboarder.com
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