Advice on filing a bug report

[Dan Phillips]

Hi,

I had a problem with using a rt2500 based wireless card. The problem was 
that it would not connect to the router without security enabled. I am 
going to file a bug, but so not know what package to file it under, 
rt2500-source or iwconfig. Can someone advise me?


Please copy me on reply as I am not on the mailing list


Regards

Dan


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Re: Software Problem

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 06:34:27AM +0100, Miguel Albalat wrote:
> hi...i'm new in this linux world and i have a problem, i need a software to
> make a multimedia
> can anybody help me??

Can you give more details please? What exactly do you want to make?

Clear requests and more details will help the readers of this list
to sort out your problems. A start: if you are using Debian, it may
be useful to tell us what version of Debian you have installed, possibly
where you installed it from, and any things you have tried so far.

Example question: "I've just installed Debian testing (Etch) on an 
AMD64.I downloaded a CD image from http://cdimage.debian.org and burnt it to 
a disk using k3b. It seemed to finish, then suddenly the disk drive opened
and loud trumpet music played. Is this normal?"

Answer "Yes, this is perfectly normal. K3b is set to eject the disk when 
the program finishes. The music is an extra indication." [That one 
_always_ surprises me, because I'm usually watching the screen somewhere 
else :) ]

Hope this helps,

Andy


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Re: Debian switches driver letters preventing boot

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 01:13:50PM -0500, Gmail wrote:

[Please trim your quotes]

> This seems to get me part of the way there.  I created a modified initrd
> that does a "modprobe -q hpt366" before it loads the generic ide module.
>   The hpt366 module was already in the initrd image.   I modified my
> /etc/fstab to reflect hda instead of hde for the root drive.
> 
> My menu.lst entry says to boot from /dev/hda1 which oddly enough has
> always worked and is the only configuration that does work.  Grub
> reports a boot from hd(0,0).
> 
> However, during boot, it seems to indicate that it's trying to get
> initrd from /dev/hde (now treating hda as if it were hde).  It then
> times out trying to load /scripts/local-top.  Eventually I get a
> rudimentary shell where I can mount the root drive as /dev/hda1.
> 
> I've tweaked the initrd scripts, but yet it's still alternately treating
> the root drive as hda and hde.  Where is that coming from?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mark

Bob McGowan has made several posts on using the LABEL feature of fstab
and the kernel, search the archives for his name.

Also post titled "self-built kernel causing boot problems"

-- 
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: howto build debian xen kernel?

[Grok Mogger]

Jonas Meurer wrote:

Hello,

I just tried to build a debian xen kernel, based on linux-source-2.6.18,
linux-patch-debian-2.6.18 and kernel-package.

According to the docs i found, i can apply the debian kernel sources in
the following way:

resivo:/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.18$ ../kernel-patches/all/2.6.18/apply/debian 
2.6.18-10

unfortunately, the xen (and vserver) patches are not in the default
patchset, but in an extra 'series'. so i thought that the following
should work:

resivo:/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.18$ ../kernel-patches/all/2.6.18/apply/debian 
2.6.18-10-extra
Error: Target revision is not in our list of revisions

obviously, it doesn't.

So my simple question is: how do i build a debian xen kernel with
make-kpkg from debian kernel sources?

The official debian kernel images don't use make-kpkg, so it wouldn't
help to look in debian/rules from linux-2.6.

I didn't find any documentation about that topic. All howtos/tutorials/...
that talk about building a xen kernel, use the original xen kernel
sources, not the debian kernel source with patches.

greetings,
 jonas




You may have some need to compile your own kernel, but if you'd 
be fine with a pre-made vanilla Debian kernel, you can just 
install the appropriate Xen package.  The right one will drop a 
working Xen kernel in your /boot directory.  As I recall, you'll 
have to edit your GRUB menu.lst file and make an initrd with 
update-initramfs afterwards.  I think you want to pick one of 
the packages that starts with "xen-hypervisor".  There's a few 
of them.


I hope this might save you some trouble.

- GM


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Re: Booting Debian/testing fails

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 10:04:35AM -0500, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> > Kantonix, Mepis, Ubuntu, and others *based* on Debian.
> > Personally, I don't think that Debian is geared towards newbies but more
> > towards admins and people who seem to know what they are doing. Hence
> > the formation of Kantonix, Mepis, Ubuntu, and others *based* on Debian.
> > 
> > Unfortunately the distinction is not made clear anywhere.

If Debian decided to cater more and more for the nuances of newbies (and
what is a newbie anyway?) then I feel that the project as a whole would
suffer and the people who use Debian for certain reasons may find that
their requirements are no longer being catered for. These people could
quite possibly be DD's and seriously start to consider their motivations
in the project.

For example, I prefer to set up my system the way I want to, I don't
want a GUI whereas a newbie doesn't understand a computer without one.
Already you have a conflict.

> So does this mean that the Debian community, while helpful to newbies
> that know enough how to ask a question, would be happier if newbies who
> don't just went to one of those projects instead?  

We *are* the Debian community. Some would, some wouldn't, some don't
care, IOW there is no specific community viewpoint and probably never
will be. 

If someone doesn't know how to ask a question then *any* project will
have difficulty helping them. This is probably the Catch-22.

> If this is the case, we should still have the big button but say so.  Or
> have links to those projects as suggestions among others.  I think that
> such a simple thing would go a long way to making the debian website
> more newbie friendly.  Similar to notice at the head of a difficult
> trail warning that inexperienced hikers are more likely to fall off a
> cliff.  Help is available to get you out but it could take a week.

If you suggest it, and someone who has the authority to action it, likes
the idea then it may happen, but I'm guessing it has probably been
suggested before and either good reasons were issued about why it wasn't
a good idea or there was no one interested in implementing it. I could
be completely wrong though.

There are sites geared to helping newbies: linuxquestions.org, 
tldp.org.

-- 
Chris.
==
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: iceweasel not being recognized by ISP website

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:42:22AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> Raju's point about employment with capitalone is entirely
> different. CapitalOne is not (at least ostensibly) a web content
> company. As such they can (IMO) be somehwat forgriven for having
> non-compliant stuff on the web. That said, their web folks should be
> slapped around a bit. 
> 
> make sense? 

http://linuxmafia.com/

-- 
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: Unstable and Testing stability

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 09:24:11PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> I ended up getting it working, thanks. I can't believe I was so stupid 
> to substitute "main" for "testing", I guess I wasn't paying attention. 
> Thanks for your help all, I'll be sticking with testing permanently now :-D

Sorry to add more confusion :-) Once Etch is released, Lenny will become
the new testing and there will be a slurry of packages entering testing.
Some, of course, will have bugs. The bug will get fixed and the fixed
version will get uploaded to unstable where it won't propagate down to
testing for at least 10 days. I remember what happened when people stuck
with testing when Sarge became stable and Etch became the new testing.


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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: amule refuses to start

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 07:14:36AM -0800, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Sun February 4 2007 06:58, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > > Juanjavier Martínez
> > >
> > > [0] http://personales.ya.com/juanjavier_xxx/amule.jpg
> >
> > You also might not want to avoid pictures in your support requests if
> > you can, since the mailing lists are accessed by some through
> > console/text based devices.
> 
> There was no picture, only a link to the image in a 3.1 kb mail. The OP did 
> well I would say .

I agree, nothing worse than downloading a lot of unnecessary stuff. A
link to a picture of the problem is perfect.

-- 
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 11:04:45PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 03:23:19PM EST, Marcus Blumhagen wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 09:07:32PM +0100, Marcus Blumhagen wrote:
> > > This way you would really save time and could even keep your actual
> > > software selection without backing up /etc.
> > 
> > Oops, of course it has to be "... without backing up /usr."
> > 
> > Anyway, mostly the other posters already wrote similar suggestions and
> > I can only agree with them. Should have read the thread 1st, or am
> > I really *that* slow on typing? ;)
> 
> gtypist?  :-)
> 
> Thanks to all.
> 
> I have removed a large number of packages -- the best tip was from
> someone who suggested removing a kde, I think, library .. that pulled
> out a huge number of dependent package .. none of which I need .. and
> many of which I didn't even know I had them installed.
> 
> Now I have gotten rid of about 1G of stuff .. but I still think there's
> more. 
> 
> Is there any way I can have debian help me figure out if there is stuff
> that should be removed such as libraries that nothing uses -- naturally
> I did not remove a single library myself. 

apt-cache show cruft

> I ran "deborphan -z" but at a glance it looks like it does not add up to
> more than 20-30Meg .. so I might as well leave well alone.

There maybe others once you delete something,
i.e nothing depends on x; so x is listed in deborphan
x depends on y; so if you delete x and nothing else depends on y, then 
y will now be listed in deborphan.

-- 
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==
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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vim filetype detection (was Re: Vim colour syntax)

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 10:45:08PM -0500, Stephen wrote:
> > seems autodetection of the filetype is not working (?) 
> 
> Yup. I'm surprised that no one else upgrading from Sarge to Etch has
> experienced this either. I had a vanilla Sarge.

I noticed that vim-latexsuite no longer worked with vim 7.x whereas it
was working with vim 6.x. Filed a bug against vim-latexsuite but no
reply.

-- 
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==
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: font problems

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 10:00:19AM +, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:17:36 -0500
> "Mike Polyakov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > >Is this a bitmap font? Fontconfig (the font library used by GTK and
> > >QT) ignores bitmap fonts by default. To change this, run
> > >'dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config' as root and answer yes to the
> > >question re. bitmap fonts. On sarge the command is 'dpkg-reconfigure
> > >fontconfig'.
> > 
> > Hi,
> > This is a pcf font and I think it is a bitmapped font. I ran
> > dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config and answered yes to using bitmapped
> > fonts. However this did not solve my problem and I still can't choose
> > to use that font inside GVIM's font selected dialog. Any other ideas?
> > Thanks.
> 
> Is the font seen by fontconfig at all? Check the output of the 'fc-list'
> command. If the font appears there then it should be available to
> other applications such as gedit. This should at least help you to
> narrow down where the problem is.

man fc-cache

-- 
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etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.


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Re: bug in etch: "iceweasel -safe-mode" segfaults. disabling pango corrects this.

[Noah Dain]

On 2/5/07, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Noah Dain wrote:
> When I go to http://syscp-forum.org/ and scroll down the page,
> iceweasel segfaults.  It does so even with a fresh ~/.mozilla and
> running with "-safe-mode" option.  The crash happens immediately and
> is 100% reproducible.
>
> However, if I use env variable "MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1", iceweasel runs
> as expected (no crash).  I got that tidbit from
> http://www.debianhelp.org/node/3536/ which was posted to this list
> before.  However, in this case there is no output indicating libpango.
> Just the segfault mesage.
>
> I think it should be noted that I am running iceweasel under KDE.
> Also, the official Firefox2 release works fine.
>
> platform is i386.
>
> $ apt-cache policy iceweasel
> iceweasel:
> Installed: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2
>

Not here.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
   Installed: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2
   Candidate: 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2
   Version table:
  *** 2.0.0.1+dfsg-2 0
 500 file: sid/main Packages
 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status



I was able to use strace to hunt down the problem.  It seems when I
brought over some true type fonts, they ended up with 0600
permissions.  Some of the links on that page must have wanted
"tahoma.ttf", and when iceweasel went to open it, it segfaulted.

I'll submit this tomorrow, errr, make that later today, time willing.

--
Noah Dain
"The beatings will continue, until moral improves" - the Management


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Re: Software Problem

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/05/07 23:34, Miguel Albalat wrote:
> hi...i'm new in this linux world and i have a problem, i need a software to
> make a multimedia

Do you forget the last words of your sentence?

> can anybody help me??

Usually.

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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:14:37PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Mon February 5 2007 15:29, cga2000 wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:13:31PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote:

[...]

> I suspect (but haven't tried it) apt would be ok with stuff from /etc/share 
> just going away. It would be put back on upgrade though with the new stuff.
> 
> If I had a need to clear disk space I would do it but I'd be very careful 
> about loosing necessary data lest something inexplicably stop working. Hard 
> drives are so cheap nowadays I'd opt for more disk space first if that's 
> doable.

Not for laptops -- even old laptops.

But the correct approach is keeping your system under control in the
first place.

Installing one package at a time and asking yourself thereafter -- do I
really need this..?  If in doubt immediately remove it.

At one point I was really tempted by the linux-from-scratch approach.
Among other things it makes installing a lot harder so you really think
twice.  The downside being that once you've sweated through the install
you probably also think twice or more before removing anything.

debian makes it so easy to install new software that if you're not
careful you can end up with vast amounts of junk that you don't even
remember how it got there.  

> > What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
> > one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
> > removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
> > Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
> > whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
> > Megs.. probably too late now.
> 
> Whenever I remove a package I always purge except system stuff I'll generally 
> leave the config there in case I want to revisit it. 

hmm.. that's a little messy for my personal taste.  

.. maybe it would be nice if apt had the capability of migrating a
snapshot of an application that is not currently needed to offline
storage .. and restoring it if/when needed. 

would make upgrades a bit more complicated, I guess .. but then you
would type, say:

$ startx $(which enlightenment) -- :1

and apt would ask you to mount a CD labeled .. whatever .. and a few
minutes later you'd be back where you left off .. maybe a year ago ..
like it was yesterday.

> Back when I used dselect packages that had config or other data that
> could be purged where marked with a - instead of _, I suspect aptitude
> is the same but haven't used aptitude to purge anything yet. I thought
> purging only purged the config files but maybe it will also purge
> other data in /usr/share/ but I have yet to try that and see myself.

I definetely like the idea of a system that's small enough so I know
off the top of my head exactly what's installed .. where the files are
and how it's set up .. customized. 

Thanks,

cga


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Re: [Solved (sorta)] Vim colour syntax

[Stephen]

Update:

Getting a little frustrated, I aptitude purged all my vim files. I then
re-installed 'vim vim-common vim-runtime'. I now have colour syntax
hi-lighting back.

I know it's not the proper way to fix things, but damn, I tried to do it
the right way. 

Thanks again for the assistance !

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Debian Kernel Build

[Figaro]

Question: How accurate is the mini HOW TO at the below quoted site? It 
seems not to have been updated for 2.6 series kernels. Is there a better 
tutorial?

http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/kernel-pkg.html
I have the : http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/
Running Debian Unstable > cannot find an off the shelf k7-smp image that 
won't either lose mouse and keyboard communication or boot. The previous 
2.6.16 versions were fine.. but not the -18's, at least not so far.  And 
i do not seem to be able to find the old version to reinstall.Alas I 
resort to a simgle cpu 2.6.18.-4-i486 version which does other odd stuff 
with Iceweasel flickering and consuming 95% cpu on many websites. Of 
course it could be my beloved e-17 (entrance wm)!!! Oh well, Unstable as 
she goes.! I really hate to resort to booting Ubuntu 6.06 !

thank you.
matthew
Thank you.


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Software Problem

[Miguel Albalat]

hi...i'm new in this linux world and i have a problem, i need a software to
make a multimedia
can anybody help me??

Re: off to try my hand at "hurd"ing

[Dave Witbrodt]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
here i go, installing the hurd. I'll report back. 


If you don't hear from me by the spring, I'm either dead or found
paradise. Either way send whiskey and reinforcements.


  What hardware are you installing on?  (Just curious.)

Dave W.


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:09:46AM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:04:44PM EST, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:29:42PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> > > seems that all the locales that I have no
> > > use for 
> > 
> > localepurge
> 
> Not on my system.

you mention lots of locales you have no use for. localepurge will
remove these locales for you. :)

A


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:04:44PM EST, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:29:42PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> > seems that all the locales that I have no
> > use for 
> 
> localepurge

Not on my system.


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 08:27:21PM EST, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:54:27PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:

[..]

> > In any event, I never even _used_ the vast majority of these packages ..
> > let alone configure them .. My guess is that they got pulled in when I
> > installed gnome/kde. 
> 
> then you can probably safely purge them. Basically the only things
> you're worried about here are configs you heavily customised for
> packages you think you might want again in the future.

I do have backups of /home and /etc.

> > As far as I can remember, the only thing I need to worry about is to
> > make sure I do not remove any .gconf, .gtkrc or .kderc file -- and
> > possibly ".qtrc" if there is such a thing .. because I have some X
> > font-related stuff in here that I would rather hang on to ..
> 
> by . I assume you mean ~/. in which case you
> should be fine. I believe that apt doesn't touch config files in your
> home dir.

Let's hope so.

Thanks,

cga.


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off to try my hand at "hurd"ing

[Andrew Sackville-West]

here i go, installing the hurd. I'll report back. 

If you don't hear from me by the spring, I'm either dead or found
paradise. Either way send whiskey and reinforcements.

A


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Re: Removing desktop environments (Beware! stupid post)

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 05:30:54AM EST, Marcus Blumhagen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:54:43AM +0100,  wrote:
> > Also debfoster2aptitude (provided by debfoster) might be of interest
> > for you. debfoster2aptitude because debfoster is deprecated by
> > aptitude, but this way you have can migrate your debfoster decision to 
> > aptitude. It can be run in interactive mode in a shell.  It will then ask 
> > you question about the installed packages, whether you intend to keep them 
> > or to remove or purge them (default is to purge, but can be overridden by 
> > setting "RemoveCmd = apt-get remove" /etc/debfoster.conf) A closer look 
> > into the manpage of debfoster provides you with some more information on 
> > fine tuning the behaviour when deciding which packages to consider for its 
> > questioning, i.e.:
> > 
> > debfoster2aptitude --option UseRecommends=no --mark-only
> > 
> > will also try to purge packages which actually are only
> > recommended by another installed package (by default debfoster
> > considers recommended packages as real dependencies. And wouldn't 
> > purge immediately after finishing asking questions. This is only a 
> > little
> > safety net.
> > 
> > Important Notice!:
> > 
> > Beware of the keys you press in interactive mode! Since it will be a 
> > long
> > game of question and answer, and you definitely don't want to
> > press "q" after answering 100+ questions. If you get tired of
> > answering you can postpone the other questions by pressing "x",
> > which will save your answers before exit.
> > 
> > 
> > If you use apt-get, then "debfoster" is the command to use, but I'd
> > really suggest using aptitude. This way you get aptitude to know which
> > packages are really programs you want and which ones are dependencies,
> > that can be removed, once there is no other package depending on it.
> 
> EVEN MORE IMPORTANT NOTICE:
> 
> Beware of debfoster2aptitude, as it doesn't quite seem to work as
> I have written. Actually while writing my previous mail I also once
> startet debfoster2aptitude, but 1st it seems not to respect command
> line options as the normal debfoster does, 2nd it immediatly wiped
> out my package selections in aptitude (now all, even essential
> packages are marked "auto" in aptitude, and an "aptitude dist-upgrade"
> attempts to purge all packages marked "auto")
> 
> Hope you did not already go to action. I am terribly sorry that I have
> posted this before having checked if it really works as I stated.

Don't worry.  I would never dream of blindly following an unknown
party's recommendations unless I fully understand the implications.

Especially something that could potentially screw up my system.

But since your prior post will in future be accessible to all kinds of
folks googling for solutions, it's just as well you complemented it with
this warning.

>   After some quick invocations of debfoster it seems to work fine.
>   But after some also quick reading it seems that debfoster does not
>   use a temporary file when running and instead writes directly to
>   the keeperfile, so you should backup your actual /var/lib/apt*
>   and /var/lib/debfoster before using debfoster. (But recalling the
>   OP I think this advise is superfluous) 
> Regards
> Marcus

Thanks,

cga




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Re: Vim colour syntax

[Stephen]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:35:29PM -0500 or thereabouts, cga2000 wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 03:26:42PM EST, Stephen wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 12:55:01PM -0500 or thereabouts, Michael Pobega 
> > wrote:
> >   
> > > I'm not asking for help, I'm offering it. I think the problem is just a 
> > > Debian based distro thing, because none of them come with vim-full 
> > > installed by default (As far as I know). vim-full is the package you 
> > > need to enable the extra things, for example my output from installing 
> > > vim-full says that I'm missing a few libraries and packages to get vim 
> > > /fully/ working.
> > 
> > Thanks for your help, it's appreciated, as is the other nice peoples
> > volunteering their time on a Sunday !
> 
> When else..?  Aren't we supposed to have jobs and be working during the week?

I don't know, does your job require you to work week days ? Some people work
weekends or nights.  

Did I say something to upset you ? You seemed a little testy at times in this
thread, and confusing respondents, at least once.

Regarding thanking people for their time on a Sunday; It was nice when they
could be doing something else, especially when it was Super Hype Sunday er ...
Super Bowl day in North America, and/or a weekend. Of course it's nice when
help is received at _any time_.

OK ?

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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Greg Folkert]

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 18:10 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:15:00 -0200
> Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Greg Folkert wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 20:38 +0100, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> > >   
> > >> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
> > >> Jan Schledermann told:
> > >>
> > >> [...]
> > >> 
> > >>> A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> > >>> kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> > >>> creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> > >>> difference could cause the compile problem?
> > >>>   
> > >> No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
> > >> include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched
> > >> or as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.
> > >> 
> > >
> > > Have you applied the "vmware-any-any-XXX" updates(1)?
> > >
> > > I get zero problems running VMware on a stock Debian kernel.
> > >
> > >
> > > (1) http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update107.tar.gz
> > >   
> > Greg, the patch worked perfectly here, thanks. vmware is running as I
> > type. Jan, I am using a stock kernel, no compile here. I installed
> > the sources to try to
> > workaround vmware.
> > 
> > 
> 
> After reading  this thread I install Vmware on a 
>  Sid box. .Here are the steps I used without the any-any patches. I
> ran this from a TTY since, I think, failures have occured while doing
> this in X with a Konsole.
> 
> 1. dl the source & unpack > 'l -s linux' in /usr/src/
> 2. cp -a /boot/config-  '/usr/src/linux/.config'
> 3. run 'make oldconfig', takes just a few seconds
> 
> Now Vmware is able to find the correct headers to match the running
> kernel.
> 
> For some reason the headers shipped with the kerenl don't satisfy
> Vmware?

The problem is, the any-any patches are bug fixes and enhancements made
to the vmware sources.

It would be in your best interest to install them. You should use the
linux-headers that comes with Debian.

It is a flaw with VMware that makes it the problem.
-- 
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
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the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: No space in new mail message on login

[Kent West]

Andrew Critchlow wrote:
> I have a question which I have searched the internet and cannot find
> anything about this issue:
> When a user logs into the debian box they get "You Have newmail"
> For some reason there isn't a space in between 'new' and 'mail'.
>  
> Anyone know how to correct this?
>
>  
> Thanks

1. Please use a meaningful subject line. Thanks.

2. Does this happen when logging in at a console (text-only screen), or
via a GUI-fied login screen. If the GUI screen, is it xdm, gdm, kdm, or
wdm (or other)?

3. Does it happen for all users, or just one user? (You may need to
create a new user to test with.)



-- 
Kent West
Westing Peacefully 


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:43:14PM -0800, Michael M. wrote:

> And yet, just saying "Windows is dangerous" doesn't say anything about 
> why or how you should use Linux, nor does it say anything about which 
> Linux distro you should use, nor why Linux would be a better choice than 
> OS X for these users, if in fact it would be. 

Very true. It is just a starting point. Much like the progress of
tobacco smoking in the US (and maybe elsewhere, but here I am, in the
US). It was initially accepted and even encouraged. The transition
towards change began with admitting that it was a health problem.

So it goes with computers. Admitting there is a problem with the
generally accepted computing platform is the first step in phasing out
that platform for something more robust (whatever that may be). 

Gosh. sounds like a 12 step program for windows users...


> It's also a fact that most 
> of the exploited vulnerabilities in Windows are vulnerabilities that 
> Microsoft has already fixed, but millions of Windows users have not 
> applied because they can't be bothered or don't know how to use Windows 
> Update. It's hard for me to imagine how these users would cope with the 
> need to enter "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" in a terminal, which 
> would look very alien to people who've only ever done point & click.

It is a tragedy. So many pwned boxen. Nothing about modern computing
was designed with what is the current average user in mind. At least
it appears that way to me in my limited knowledge. Computing was
designed for researchers and scientists. The parts we all use day in
and day out are simply layers over the top of that structure.

A


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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Greg Madden]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:15:00 -0200
Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Greg Folkert wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 20:38 +0100, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> >   
> >> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
> >> Jan Schledermann told:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >> 
> >>> A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> >>> kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> >>> creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> >>> difference could cause the compile problem?
> >>>   
> >> No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
> >> include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched
> >> or as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.
> >> 
> >
> > Have you applied the "vmware-any-any-XXX" updates(1)?
> >
> > I get zero problems running VMware on a stock Debian kernel.
> >
> >
> > (1) http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update107.tar.gz
> >   
> Greg, the patch worked perfectly here, thanks. vmware is running as I
> type. Jan, I am using a stock kernel, no compile here. I installed
> the sources to try to
> workaround vmware.
> 
> 

After reading  this thread I install Vmware on a 
 Sid box. .Here are the steps I used without the any-any patches. I
ran this from a TTY since, I think, failures have occured while doing
this in X with a Konsole.

1. dl the source & unpack > 'l -s linux' in /usr/src/
2. cp -a /boot/config-  '/usr/src/linux/.config'
3. run 'make oldconfig', takes just a few seconds

Now Vmware is able to find the correct headers to match the running
kernel.

For some reason the headers shipped with the kerenl don't satisfy
Vmware?

-- 
Greg Madden


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Re: Booting Debian/testing fails

[Kamaraju Kusumanchi]

On Sunday 04 February 2007 20:45, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 08:10:07PM -0500, Kamaraju Kusumanchi wrote:
> > On Sunday 04 February 2007 18:51, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> > > On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:28:19PM -0500, Kamaraju Kusumanchi wrote:
> > > > For the interested, A summary of why there is no newbie list can be
> > > > found at
> > > >
> > > > http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html
> > > >
> > > > under "Why is there no separate list for newbies? Can you create one?
> > > > Should I create one?"
> >
> > The du-guidelines is not official debian policy or anything like that.
> > That is why you dont find a link from www.debian.org . However I thought
> > some such document would be useful for improving the signal/noise ratio
> > on d-u, so I just wrote it up.
>
> What would happen if you asked debian-www to add it or put in in the
> debian wiki?
>
> Doug.

The last time I looked, debian-www is full of spam with 1 or 2 ham posts here 
and there. I have no intention of subscribing to it again.

I do not understand your comment about debian wiki. Do you want me to put a 
link in the debian wiki or do you want me to put the whole contents there?

raju

-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/

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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Tyler Smith]

> Gnu_Raiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>From: Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wrote one day while
>>>in band camp:  I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn.  Is
>>>this unavoidable, or is there a terminal emulator that allows for
>>>the use of meta keys?
>
>> I assume you know about gnus right? Some would say that using slrn, and 
>> mutt with emacs is heresy!

Yes, I imagine I'll end up there eventually. But mutt worked with
relatively minimal work, and slrn was perfect from the first time I
ran it. Gnus still feels kind of weird, although it will inevitably be
what I end up using since I spend most of my time in Emacs.

I have added the command to my (newly-created) .Xresources file
suggested by Michael:

xterm*metaSendsEscape: true

and I've now got a working alt-key, so the immediate problem is
solved. I'll look into the advanced features of Xterm that you folks
have kindly pointed me towards:

> Gnu_Raiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XtermExtras
>
On 2007-02-05, Thomas Dickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_216
>


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Tyler Smit


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael M.]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 07:15:44 -0800
"Michael M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  
I think the issue people aren't addressing in this thread is one of 
goals. Most people who use Windows are not much more than novices or 
advanced beginners with respect to the intricacies of Windows

operation. Part of the reason for that is simply that most people
don't want to be. They want to be able to do what they want or need
to do with a computer, they don't really care about the whys &
wherefores of how the computer is carrying out the functions they
want it to perform, nor about how Windows and Linux distros and OS X
differ in their approaches to carrying out those functions.

If these are the people you're aiming at, then going on & on about
the Social Contract, the philosophy of open source, the evils of
proprietary formats, the importance of standards, etc., etc., is a
waste of time. They don't care. They want to get their photos off
their cameras. Frankly, I'm not sure any Linux distro, let alone



Fact: A dancer from a show in Romania lost her job (not to
mention the embarrassment) because some *very private* pictures of her
and her boyfriend got out on the internet.

Rumour: It is said her (or her boyfriends?) computer got cracked and
the pictures stolen.

True or not, I think users care about their private data, like
passwords, credit card numbers or even private photos, and their
ignorance is hurting the whole internet community (spambots).

  


And yet, just saying "Windows is dangerous" doesn't say anything about 
why or how you should use Linux, nor does it say anything about which 
Linux distro you should use, nor why Linux would be a better choice than 
OS X for these users, if in fact it would be. It's also a fact that most 
of the exploited vulnerabilities in Windows are vulnerabilities that 
Microsoft has already fixed, but millions of Windows users have not 
applied because they can't be bothered or don't know how to use Windows 
Update. It's hard for me to imagine how these users would cope with the 
need to enter "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" in a terminal, which 
would look very alien to people who've only ever done point & click.


--
Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute 
reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." --S. Jackson


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Re: ldap + pam howto?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:04:48PM +, Rakotomandimby Mihamina wrote:
> Hi,
> I am using Testing, and I want to setup the debian way an LDAP + pam 
> authentication system for system users.
> Would you know a recent howto talking about that?
> I dont need generic howto, I am interested in the debian specific way.
> 

Do you need to configure just the client, just the server, or both?

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
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http://www.connexer.com


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Re: What UPS to buy: a MGE Evolution 850 or an APC Smart-UPS 750?

[Paul Johnson]

Ron Johnson wrote:

> fax, printer & copier should *never* be run from battery.  They draw
> an *enormous* amount of power.  CRTs are in the same boat.  Don't
> know about LCDs.

Turning the LCD off makes a whopping 0.1 minute difference for me using
apcaccess to read off time remaining.



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Re: I have a question...

[Paul Johnson]

Zero Hiroshi wrote:

> I just want to know if the Debian OS is compatible with Windows XP.

No, largely due to a concerted effort on Microsoft's part to be compatible
with nothing.

> I use XP on my laptop, and I have an application that wont work right 
> because my laptop doesnt have have the HAL device, which is a .deb file. I 
> need to open it using Debian, without losing anything on my computer.  

As long as your drive isn't super-full, yes, but will require dual-booting. 
Easiest way to get started with that is at
http://www.goodbye-microsoft.com/



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Re: What UPS to buy

[Paul Johnson]

Russell L. Harris wrote:

> Another respectable UPS manufacturer is Tripp-Lite.

Tripp-Lite is expensive, but probably the best option around.  They make
great line-conditioning power strips, too.



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Re: What UPS to buy

[Paul Johnson]

Ron Johnson wrote:

>> Some of APC's UPS units allow you to set the voltage sensitivity via dip
>> switches, some of the units allow you to set it via software, and some
>> don't let you adjust the sensitivity.  So if you plan to back up your
>> battery powered UPS with an external generator, make sure to get a UPS
>> with an adjustment for voltage sensitivity.
> 
> But then you're stepping out of the realm of SOHO UPSs, no?

Not really.  Such a setup would be desirable in Northwest Oregon now that
we're stuck dragging California's electrically dead weight, and they can't
be bothered to turn off some lights.  Hopefully the answer to "How many
Californian legislators does it take to change a light bulb" is all of
them, just like all of them created the problem Oregon's being forced to
fix for them right now.  I would like to go back to paying market rates for
my electric instead of over twice market because PG&E doesn't want to pay
what California has legally required them to pay now (any rate the market
is willing to sell to power-nongenerating fools).





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Re: What UPS to buy: a MGE Evolution 850 or an APC Smart-UPS 750?

[Paul Johnson]

Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

> The deeper and faster you discharge a battery, the 1) less juice you get 
> out of it before it needs recharging and 2) the fewer cycles you get 
> before it needs replacing.  

One thing to add, and note that this *only* applies to improperly charged
NiCd battery:  You should never, ever trickle charge a NiCd, only burp
charge.  Trickle charging a NiCd battery damages the battery and creates
the dreaded "memory effect."  Unfortunately, most chargers supplied to
charge a NiCd are the wrong, trickle charge variety.  NiCd is the cheapest
battery option around, but one that should be avoided entirely unless you
know you have/will be purchasing equipment to burp charge the battery.

Discharging a battery completely damages any battery.  Avoid running it
completely flat if you can.  Doing so with NiCds will exacerbate any damage
to the battery creating the dreaded "memory effect" improperly charged
NiCds are prone to.

Any battery loses capacity over time, though you can reduce these effects
through proper care.



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Re: What UPS to buy: a MGE Evolution 850 or an APC Smart-UPS 750?

[Paul Johnson]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

> The home site is: http://www.apcupsd.com/
> 
> They have a very active mailing list.

Also available at nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.apcupsd.user for
your reduced-SMTP-load and back-reading convenience.



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Re: What UPS to buy: a MGE Evolution 850 or an APC Smart-UPS 750?

[Paul Johnson]

J.A. de Vries wrote:

> After some Googling I am thinking of buying either an APC Smart-UPS 750
> or a MGE Evolution 850. As far as I know APC is the "big brand" and it
> certainly is the one that is the easiest to get around here. Their
> Powerchute software seems to support Linux as well.

No worries, apcupsd has you covered on the APC front.

> However, when reading the NUT website I noticed MGE is supporting them
> really well. And because I'd like to "vote" with my money I have thought
> of going for their product. Before I do so, I'd appreciate if any of you
> could share experiences. I'm not really an expert on this topic as this
> will be the first UPS I own, so any advice would be appreciated.

I have an APC Back-UPS ES 500 that works wonderfully on my system.



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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:54:27PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:48:34PM EST, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> > Hello.
> > 
> > cga2000, 06.02.2007 00:29:
> > > What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
> > > one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
> > > removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
> > > Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
> > > whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
> > > Megs.. probably too late now.
> > 
> > No problem. You could use some one-liner like the following:
> > 
> > # for i in `dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk '{print $2}'`;do dpkg -P "$i";done
> > 

nice.

[...]
> 
> I ran the "dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk .. " bit -- up to the semicolon
> and I have about three screenful worth of packages .. everything I
> removed over the weekend, it would seem..
> 
> > But make sure that you *really* need none of those config files anymore.
> 
> Well, that's what I found surprising .. the /usr/share stuff is not
> config files .. more like doc .. examples .. metaprograms / metadata ..
> I'm not sure why these files were not removed by a regular "apt-get
> remove" in the first place .. ??

the default remove is just to remove the package but not its config
files.

> 
> In any event, I never even _used_ the vast majority of these packages ..
> let alone configure them .. My guess is that they got pulled in when I
> installed gnome/kde. 

then you can probably safely purge them. Basically the only things
you're worried about here are configs you heavily customised for
packages you think you might want again in the future.

> 
> As far as I can remember, the only thing I need to worry about is to
> make sure I do not remove any .gconf, .gtkrc or .kderc file -- and
> possibly ".qtrc" if there is such a thing .. because I have some X
> font-related stuff in here that I would rather hang on to ..

by . I assume you mean ~/. in which case you
should be fine. I believe that apt doesn't touch config files in your
home dir.

A


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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Bruno Buys]

Greg Folkert wrote:

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 20:38 +0100, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
  

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
Jan Schledermann told:

[...]


A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
difference could cause the compile problem?
  

No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched or
as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.



Have you applied the "vmware-any-any-XXX" updates(1)?

I get zero problems running VMware on a stock Debian kernel.


(1) http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update107.tar.gz
  

Greg, the patch worked perfectly here, thanks. vmware is running as I type.
Jan, I am using a stock kernel, no compile here. I installed the sources 
to try to

workaround vmware.


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Re: your mail

[David Jardine]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 10:31:11PM +, Andrew Critchlow wrote:
> I have a question which I have searched the internet and cannot find anything 
> about this issue:When a user logs into the debian box they get "You Have 
> newmail"For some reason there isn't a space in between 'new' and 'mail'. 
> Anyone know how to correct this? Thanks

I can't help you, but I'd be worried about this.  It looks as if 
a file in a security-sensitive area has been tampered with.

-- 
David Jardine

"Running Debian GNU/Linux and
loving every minute of it."  -L. von Sacher-M.(1835-1895)


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Re: system freezes with Matrox G400 and GLX

[tomek . fizyk]

Użytkownik Jonas Meurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> napisał:
>Hello,
>
>I use a Matrox G400 DH as graphics controller, and i run debian/unstable
>on an amd64 system.
>
>Unfortunately this leads to system freezes when i try to use 3d
>rendering (GLX).
>
>Some examples which do always freeze my system are xmms visualisations,
>tuxkart and mixxx.
>
>Do you have any suggestions where to start debugging? Is this a glx/mesa
>bug, or a kernel mga driver bug, or a hardware problem?
>

I had a Matrox Millenium G400 and many problems with this card...
I don't remember it system freezes were among them, but what can I say
about them is that they were caused by the buggy kernel mga module
(which doesn't even support all features of the chip, eg. the chip has 3
texturing units but the module gives access only to 2 of them).
And I am 90% sure that it is the module's problem (only 90 because I don't
know if the module wasn't fixed as I've changed the gfx card half a year
ago).

Tomek


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:48:34PM EST, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> cga2000, 06.02.2007 00:29:
> > What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
> > one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
> > removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
> > Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
> > whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
> > Megs.. probably too late now.
> 
> No problem. You could use some one-liner like the following:
> 
> # for i in `dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk '{print $2}'`;do dpkg -P "$i";done
> 
> Explanation:
> 
> dpkg -l: This will obviously print out the status of every known package.
> grep ^rc: Only removed packages with config files left are relevant.
> awk '{print $2}': We only need the package names.
> dpkg -P: Purge the package.

Thanks, Mathias .. (g)awk is indeed our friend.

I'll double check the details of the above before running it but your
logic makes excellent sense.

I ran the "dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk .. " bit -- up to the semicolon
and I have about three screenful worth of packages .. everything I
removed over the weekend, it would seem..

> But make sure that you *really* need none of those config files anymore.

Well, that's what I found surprising .. the /usr/share stuff is not
config files .. more like doc .. examples .. metaprograms / metadata ..
I'm not sure why these files were not removed by a regular "apt-get
remove" in the first place .. ??

In any event, I never even _used_ the vast majority of these packages ..
let alone configure them .. My guess is that they got pulled in when I
installed gnome/kde. 

As far as I can remember, the only thing I need to worry about is to
make sure I do not remove any .gconf, .gtkrc or .kderc file -- and
possibly ".qtrc" if there is such a thing .. because I have some X
font-related stuff in here that I would rather hang on to ..

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

cga


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Alan Ianson]

On Mon February 5 2007 15:24, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:06:07 -0600
>
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You need linux-image-2.6.18-4-686.
>
>  ^^^
> Are you sure? I just updated and I still only see the -3- image.

Etch is still at -3. If all goes well the -4 with move into etch soon.


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Re: install 4.0 on usb hdd

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 01:55:21PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 06:18:14AM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> >>Zoran Kolic wrote:
> Is your BIOS able to boot from a portable USB driveand is the 
> portable
> USB drive bootable?
> >>>Bios is ami and sees devices as I connect them to the interface. The 
> >>>other
> >>>part of question: in this moment I have only enclosure. Tomorrow gonna
> >>>buy 2.5 hdd. It _must_ be bootable.
> >>>Theoretically, there should not be any reason not to successed to 
> >>>install
> >>>on usb disk and not to write _any_ data on internal hdd. It is a 
> >>>proof of
> >>>concept not to disconnect internal drive.
> >>>Should I post additional info?
> >>
> >>I am having trouble using my USB disk with mkinitrd.yaird, because you 
> >>cannot generate the image on a different system than the one you would 
> >>boot from. At least I don't know how.
> >
> >chroot into the system and run mkinitrd.yaird within the chroot. 
> 
> That doesn't work, I tried.

meaning that the initrd generated won't boot? or that mkinitrd fails?
output?

> 
> 
> YOu
> >can also manually edit bits of the yaird config files to make it point
> >to the right devices for booting.
> 
> But what to change? Documentation is very scarce.

I had success editing MOUNTDIR and MOUNTDEV in
/etc/yaird/Default.cfg when I was in the process of moving my system
to RAID. You've got to get the initrd to point to the right device for
"/" so that when does the pivot-root it will be there. So what device
does the USB disk com up as and change MOUNTDEV so that it points to
that device. Note that it still needs to appear in fstab the right
way. 

I actually built an initrd in a different system (same machine) by
modifying the in-place fstab, and /etc/yaird/Default.cfg so that they
matched the way the new system was supposed to come up. made the
initrd and transferred it to the new system and it worked. ymmv

A


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:23:45PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
  

Andrei Popescu wrote:


On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:08:53 -0500
Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
  

I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to
try to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're
going now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.
   


I did contribute one 'note' to newbiedoc and have plans for several
others. I will contribute regardless of how many others join.

Regards,
Andrei
 
  
So I guess we can call you the second person interested? Well, even if 
you don't want to take this discussion elsewhere you should still e-mail 
me so I can document how many people are interested (It's just a lot 
more simple that way, in my opinion).



I replied off list, but I'm in somewhat. I know I've got some stuff on
newbiedoc and plans for more there too, though what i have in mind is
not newbie stuff.

A
  
That's fine by me, I just want to give the mailing a bit more time and 
see how the turnout is; If anyone else is interested email me 
personally, and email it to the list also (Send two separate emails 
though, otherwise it won't pass my email filters.



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Re: Etch hangs on boot after printer installation

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:13:01AM +0100, Fab wrote:
> 
> I just installed the Linux driver for my printer a Samsung ML-1710, 
> printer worked fine but now the system hangs on boot, I have attached a 
> screenshot of where the boot stalls.
> 
> I am not sure what to make of it, should I do a dpkg-reconfigure 
> xserver-xorg?

there is no attachment. also many people on this list work on a cli
only and can't or won't view a screenshot. just describe, as
accurately as you can, what is happening. 

A


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 05:33:32PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >I tend to be both a decent writer and a pretty good editor (if I say
> >so myself), but time-wise am probably in a better position to edit
> >stuff and flesh it out than I am to write new material, at this
> >point. 
> >  
> That's good because I'm a pretty bad writer, I have good ideas but I 
> can't articulate them particularly well. An editor is what I'd really 
> need ;-)
> >I also think the place to start is with an installation guide for
> >dummies. And be realistic about it -- focus on i386 and moderately
> >aged equipment. 1) it is the mostly likely platform, 2) kernel support
> >is pretty good for hardware. 
> >
> >  
> That would probably be a good idea, and I agree that most people would 
> be using i386 but that isn't the hard part; Getting wireless set up is 
> usually a pain, and documentation there would probably be especially 
> hard.
> >What is the plan? A package (not good as you can't get the package
> >without installing), a web-doc? maybe a pdf download? 
> >  
> A package would be good, since people are bound to be apt-cache 
> searching for newbie docs (I know I tried it when I first started on 
> Ubuntu). Obviously we would have a plain text and HTML version for a 
> package and web-doc.
> 
> I myself don't know how to make pdf files, so if someone with a bit more 
> experience in that field joins up then we can definitely accomplish a 
> pdf version.

many editors will export to pdf. Also somehow on my system I've got a
"pdf printer". I think its part of cups, but whatever.

> 
> So far you're the only person to email me, so we'll see how the turnout 
> is; If it comes down to it I'll probably write it myself (With your help 
> editing, of course), but I can't promise that it would be worked on too 
> often ;P
> 

putting this back on the list.

A
 


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:07:26PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 02/05/07 17:24, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:06:07 -0600
> > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> >> You need linux-image-2.6.18-4-686.
> >  ^^^
> > Are you sure? I just updated and I still only see the -3- image.
> 
> I use Sid.  Maybe Etch is still at -3-?

I think so. And I only get -4- in the last day or two, though maybe
I'm behind on my updates.

A


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:23:45PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:08:53 -0500
> >Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  
> >>I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to
> >>try to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're
> >>going now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.
> >>
> >
> >I did contribute one 'note' to newbiedoc and have plans for several
> >others. I will contribute regardless of how many others join.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Andrei
> >  
> So I guess we can call you the second person interested? Well, even if 
> you don't want to take this discussion elsewhere you should still e-mail 
> me so I can document how many people are interested (It's just a lot 
> more simple that way, in my opinion).

I replied off list, but I'm in somewhat. I know I've got some stuff on
newbiedoc and plans for more there too, though what i have in mind is
not newbie stuff.

A


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Alan Ianson]

On Mon February 5 2007 15:29, cga2000 wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:13:31PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote:
> > On Sun February 4 2007 14:37, cga2000 wrote:
> > > I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> > > looks suspicious.
> >
> > That sounds about right. I have a base install plus kde and my
> > /usr/share/ is 1.8G. :)
>
> Since we're both debian "/usr"s .. maybe you could "/share" it with me
> so I could get rid of mine..?

Sure, I could set that up on an nfs share. ;) It might not be in sync with 
what you have installed but it's doable.

> apart from the doc/ tree -- I could probably view those docs online if I
> ever .. ever ..  need to .. seems that all the locales that I have no
> use for .. fonts .. (from various packages) .. and games (tuxracer in
> particular) .. account for most of the 700M.

Yep, I have a few games like tremulous installed, it wouldn't surprise me if 
those account for a gig of that..

> I don't really want to just start deleting stuff in /usr/share/ one
> directory at a time because most of it is part of packages that I don't
> want to remove and I'd rather stay on good terms with apt.  I don't think
> there's a way to tell apt -- OK .. So, I've read the README and the
> debian-README and the changelog ..  and the release notes .. I very mych
> doubt I will read them again ..  please remove them.

I suspect (but haven't tried it) apt would be ok with stuff from /etc/share 
just going away. It would be put back on upgrade though with the new stuff.

If I had a need to clear disk space I would do it but I'd be very careful 
about loosing necessary data lest something inexplicably stop working. Hard 
drives are so cheap nowadays I'd opt for more disk space first if that's 
doable.

> What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
> one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
> removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
> Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
> whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
> Megs.. probably too late now.

Whenever I remove a package I always purge except system stuff I'll generally 
leave the config there in case I want to revisit it. Back when I used dselect 
packages that had config or other data that could be purged where marked with 
a - instead of _, I suspect aptitude is the same but haven't used aptitude to 
purge anything yet. I thought purging only purged the config files but maybe 
it will also purge other data in /usr/share/ but I have yet to try that and 
see myself.


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:20:07PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:02:01PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > > >  
> > > >>The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> > > >>Ubuntu. 
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >bleh. responsing anyway... 
> > > >
> > > >I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
> > > >their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
> > > >especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
> > > >it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
> > > >time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
> > > >course, just work forever.
> > > >[...]
> > > But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
> > > that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
> > > support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
> > > programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
> > > and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
> > > everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).
> > 
> > okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
> > indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
> > fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
> > to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
> > stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
> > point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
> > thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
> > caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
> > full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
> > this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
> > know to pick that selection at the end.
> 
> Do you mean that to gt Debian to appeal to this wider audience all we 
> need to do is have a different installer?

Well, hmmm...

maybe it is that simple. probably not. and I think the curernt
installer is damn good. However, for the group we're discussing here,
there are a lot of choices that people aren't used to seeing in a OS
install. I could see an installer image that is tailored just for
desktops. The only questions/choices would be timezone, locales,
language, and then it just piles on a full desktop. What are the
advantages? Gives novices a working and comfortable installation out
the door. Include tailored configs of MTA, automatic partitioning,
maybe some sane default apt mirrors, and other under-the-hood stuff
that novices are not equipped to handle. Disadvantages? another image
to maintain. others?  

I think my point is that a novice installing debian encounters a lot
of under-the-hood stuff (partitioning, MTA, mirror selection) that
they have never seen before and it leads to confusion. In other parts
of this thread (or maybe the other one) there was talk of putting a
newb down with an installer disk and a computer and watch what
happens. The things I think will cause problems are this
"under-the-hood" stuff. Just decide on some reasonable sane defaults
and go with it. Do away with tasksel, do away with most of
base-config and most of the debconf that comes up in the first boot
and you'll find a lot more people with running and decently configed
debian boxes. Will it be right for all of them? no. but they'll be up
and running instead of faltering at the first step -- installation. 

.02

A


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Re: debian rocks!

[M-L]

On Tuesday 06 February 2007 02:19, Shobhit Jindal sent this for all our 
perusal:
>---}  Just count one more happy debian user! Reinstalled yesterday, to
> switch ---} > from x86 sarge to amd64 etch. Everything went flawlessly.

Thanks to developers, maintainers, people on this list and everyone who 
contributes.

Been said before, but can't be mentioned often enough.

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++
For what are the classics but the noblest thoughts of man? They are the only 
oracles which are not decayed, and there are such answers to the most modern 
inquiry in them as Delphi and Dodona never gave. We might as well omit to 
study Nature because she is old. ...Henry 
David Thoreau
..
Linux Debian
_


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/05/07 17:24, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:06:07 -0600
> Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> You need linux-image-2.6.18-4-686.
>  ^^^
> Are you sure? I just updated and I still only see the -3- image.

I use Sid.  Maybe Etch is still at -3-?
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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=86PN
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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:29:42PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> seems that all the locales that I have no
> use for 

localepurge

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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[hendrik]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:08:53PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:

> I agree with you, I'm not one of those people who are completely against 
> Ubuntu; I think just anything you can accomplish in Ubuntu you can 
> accomplish in Debian, and probably more effectively/easily.
> 
> As for the newbie documentation, we should definitely get something 
> together. Everyone who is interested email me at my personal emailing 
> just to say "Aie!". Drop me an AIM/MSN/Jabber contact so I can reach you 
> beyond email if possible.

Aie!

Don't have AIM/MSN/Jabber.  I like email and wiki.  Especially if we're 
not all in the same time zone.

-- hendrik


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Mathias Brodala]

Hello.

cga2000, 06.02.2007 00:29:
> What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
> one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
> removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
> Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
> whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
> Megs.. probably too late now.

No problem. You could use some one-liner like the following:

# for i in `dpkg -l | grep ^rc | awk '{print $2}'`;do dpkg -P "$i";done

Explanation:

dpkg -l: This will obviously print out the status of every known package.
grep ^rc: Only removed packages with config files left are relevant.
awk '{print $2}': We only need the package names.
dpkg -P: Purge the package.

But make sure that you *really* need none of those config files anymore.


Regards, Mathias

-- 
debian/rules



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[hendrik]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:02:01PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > >  
> > >>The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> > >>Ubuntu. 
> > >>
> > >
> > >bleh. responsing anyway... 
> > >
> > >I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
> > >their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
> > >especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
> > >it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
> > >time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
> > >course, just work forever.
> > >[...]
> > But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
> > that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
> > support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
> > programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
> > and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
> > everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).
> 
> okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
> indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
> fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
> to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
> stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
> point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
> thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
> caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
> full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
> this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
> know to pick that selection at the end.

Do you mean that to gt Debian to appeal to this wider audience all we 
need to do is have a different installer?

> If you don't you end up here
> with the "I think I did something wrong because all I get is 'login:'"
> emails. 
> 
> Alright, I'm losing track of my thoughts now. bleh. let it go. We all
> agree, it needs to be easier for newbs without giving up the soul of
> debian ;)
> 
> A



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Re: Vim colour syntax

[cga2000]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 03:26:42PM EST, Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 12:55:01PM -0500 or thereabouts, Michael Pobega wrote:
>   
> > I'm not asking for help, I'm offering it. I think the problem is just a 
> > Debian based distro thing, because none of them come with vim-full 
> > installed by default (As far as I know). vim-full is the package you 
> > need to enable the extra things, for example my output from installing 
> > vim-full says that I'm missing a few libraries and packages to get vim 
> > /fully/ working.
> 
> Thanks for your help, it's appreciated, as is the other nice peoples
> volunteering their time on a Sunday !

When else..?  Aren't we supposed to have jobs and be working during the week?

> I didn't have vim-full installed prior, and someone else in the thread had
> posted what they had, (dpkg output) and it was indeed missing from the default
> install/upgrade. However, installing it didn't seem to resolve my colour 
> issue.
> :(

Someone suggested vim-tiny .. At one point I thought you might be
running plain vi .. Hence my questions re "compatible" .. 

You could check via:

$ alias

.. that vim is not aliased to something else ..

HTH

cga


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:13:31PM EST, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Sun February 4 2007 14:37, cga2000 wrote:
> 
> > I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> > looks suspicious.
> 
> That sounds about right. I have a base install plus kde and my /usr/share/ is 
> 1.8G. :)

Since we're both debian "/usr"s .. maybe you could "/share" it with me
so I could get rid of mine..?

:-)

apart from the doc/ tree -- I could probably view those docs online if I
ever .. ever ..  need to .. seems that all the locales that I have no
use for .. fonts .. (from various packages) .. and games (tuxracer in
particular) .. account for most of the 700M.

I don't really want to just start deleting stuff in /usr/share/ one
directory at a time because most of it is part of packages that I don't
want to remove and I'd rather stay on good terms with apt.  I don't think
there's a way to tell apt -- OK .. So, I've read the README and the
debian-README and the changelog ..  and the release notes .. I very mych
doubt I will read them again ..  please remove them.

What bothers me, though, is that a lot of the stuff in /usr/share/ --
one Meg here .. 600K there .. etc. apparently belongs to packages I have
removed (apt-get remove package-name) .. Probably adds up to a hundred
Meg or thereabout .. Looks like I should have specified a purge flag or
whatever and I would probably have freed up a couple more hundred
Megs.. probably too late now.

Thanks,

cga


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:06:07 -0600
Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You need linux-image-2.6.18-4-686.
 ^^^
Are you sure? I just updated and I still only see the -3- image.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:08:53 -0500
Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to
try to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're
going now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.



I did contribute one 'note' to newbiedoc and have plans for several
others. I will contribute regardless of how many others join.

Regards,
Andrei
  
So I guess we can call you the second person interested? Well, even if 
you don't want to take this discussion elsewhere you should still e-mail 
me so I can document how many people are interested (It's just a lot 
more simple that way, in my opinion).



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Re: What UPS to buy

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 13:59:28 -0600
Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:44:30 -0500
> > Kevin Coyner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> >> Some of APC's UPS units allow you to set the voltage sensitivity
> >> via dip switches, some of the units allow you to set it via
> >> software, and some don't let you adjust the sensitivity.  So if
> >> you plan to back up your battery powered UPS with an external
> >> generator, make sure to get a UPS with an adjustment for voltage
> >> sensitivity.
> > 
> > About two years ago, we had trouble at work due to an APC UPS that
> > would kick in every night. As we needed the computer at 5:00 AM we
> > had to connect the computer directly. When my boss wanted to throw
> > away the "faulty" UPS I took it home. After a Google search I found
> > the User's Manual describing the above mentioned dip-switches.
> > 
> > Needless to say I now have a pretty good working UPS, because of the
> > power fluctuations in my country and the stupidity of our IT-Service
> > (who couldn't figure out how to solve the problem).
> > 
> 
> Still the same battery?

Yup. But I'm not sure how old it is. I use it mostly for (very short)
power fluctuations because the wiring in my apartment block is *very*
bad and the refrigerator might trigger a reboot.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: relationship between debian's wiki and newbiedoc's wiki

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:46:22 +
Chris Lale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500
> > Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> If you changed the licence to be DFSG compliant, I would be happy
> >> to contribute.  Then again, if you did that, perhaps NewbieDoc's
> >> wiki could be merged to Debian's.
> >> 
> >
> > GFDL is considered DFSG compliant as long as the document doesn't
> > have unmodifiable parts:
> >
> > http://www.debian.org/News/2006/20060316
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> This is, in fact, the version of the GFDL used by the NewbieDOC
> project since 2001.
> 
> It is easy enough specifically to dual-licence an article (GFDL +
> GPL). Doing this has made it possible for some of the NewbieDOC
> content to be included in the Debian Reference (which requires GPL).
> It would be very difficult to re-licence all the work in either
> NewbieDOC or Debian Reference - tracing all the contributors (past
> and present) and obtaining permission would be very difficult.

How can I dual-licence my 'note' (if necessary), the one about
masquerading?

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:08:53 -0500
Michael Pobega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As for the newbie documentation, we should definitely get something 
> together. Everyone who is interested email me at my personal emailing 
> just to say "Aie!". Drop me an AIM/MSN/Jabber contact so I can reach
> you beyond email if possible.

I don't have either and also think it's not the best way to comunicate
(think of the time difference). For the moment we could still
communicate over debian-user and if the traffic gets too high I am sure
we could get a dedicated list, either on debian.org or alioth.

> I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to
> try to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're
> going now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.

I did contribute one 'note' to newbiedoc and have plans for several
others. I will contribute regardless of how many others join.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[cga2000]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 01:49:43PM EST, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 05:37:50PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
> > 
> > I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> > looks suspicious. 
> 
> my /usr/share/doc has 154M of stuff, maybe you could kill some -doc
> packages... just a thought.
> 
.. and a good one, since I was .. thinking that myself.

Whenever I find good doc on the net I usually save it in a private
folder before it disappears, but I've seen lots of rather useless stuff
in /usr/share/doc/ that I will never look again if I can help it. 

Thanks,

cga.



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A melhor solução para divulgar a sua empresa

[Melhor Publicidade]

Boas tardes

Venho por este meio fazer a apresentação da nossa solução de divulgação via 
email para os seus produtos e serviços. O email-marketing é a ferramenta de 
divulgação com melhor retorno tendo em conta os relativamente baixos orçamentos 
envolvidos e a capacidade de atingir um publico-alvo bastante alargado. A 
Montra 
Online é uma Newsletter cujo primeiro número será enviado no início de Março e 
onde poderá realizar a divulgação dos produtos da sua empresa.

A Montra Online apresenta as seguintes caracteristicas que o diferenciam de 
outros produtos actualmente disponíveis:
- O destaque é totalmente dado aos 
nossos clientes, não reservando para nós qualquer espaço na newsletter
- A 
nossa base de dados foi criada e desenvolvida por nós, sendo integralmente 
verificada antes do envio de cada newsletter de modo a garantir a validade de 
todos os endereços utilizados. Os endereços que não estejam a funcionar são 
imediatamente substituidos por outros, garantindo o envio para o número de 
endereços contratados
- A nossa capacidade de envio de newsletters garante a 
entrega das mesmas num espaço de tempo muito curto, normalmente inferior a 
24horas, garantindo o máximo de impacto para a sua divulgação
- A Montra 
Online será distribuida mensalmente para 50.000 endereços, numa fase inicial, 
prevendo-se o aumento regular do número de destinatários.

Em termos de divulgação da sua empresa pode optar pelas seguintes 
alternativas:
Grandes Anuncios – A opção por esta alternativa permite a 
colocação de um texto a descrever os seus produtos ou serviços, bem como duas 
fotografias. Poderá indicar os seus contactos, bem como o endereço do seu 
website e o seu email para permitir um acesso imediato ao seu 
site
Preço/inserção – 500€ + IVA
Desconto de 20% a partir de 3 
inserções
Pequenos Anuncios – A opção por esta alternativa permite a 
colocação do seu logotipo com link directo para o seu site
Preço/inserção – 
250€ + IVA
Desconto de 20% a partir de 3 inserções

Como promoção de lançamento, estes preços terão um desconto de 20% para 
adesões até 20 de Fevereiro.

Entre em contacto connosco para [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
não se esquecendo de indicar o seu telefone de contacto que teremos todo o 
gosto 
em falar consigo para lhe apresentar pessoalmente este nosso projecto.


 

O presente e-mails destina-se 
unicamente a informar e não pode ser considerado SPAM. Caso  não pretenda 
receber informações, envie uma mensagem com o assunto " Remover Email " e faça 
enviar..  Ao abrigo do decreto/lei 67/98 de 26 de Outubro, de regulação do 
tratamento automatizado de dados de caracter pessoal, o utilizador poderá 
aceder 
aos seus dados, rectificar ou cancelar os mesmos, conforme o disposto nos 
artigos 10º e 11º.  Qualquer solicitação nesse sentido deverá ser feita 
para o endereço do remetente. 

De salientar que se pretender anular 
o seu email deve efectuar essa anulação pelo endereço de email que se encontra 
na nossa base de dados, de outra forma ficaremos impossibilitados de o 
remover.

Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:30:39 -0800
Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:12:24PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> > True or not, I think users care about their private data, like
> > passwords, credit card numbers or even private photos, and their
> > ignorance is hurting the whole internet community (spambots).
> > 
> 
> Ignorance is exactly it. I think most users have no idea how
> vulnerable they really are *AND* if they actually were made to
> understand that, there would be a significant change in the way people
> view computers. 

But we all know at least one company with big influence on the users
that does not want them to change views.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Steve Mazurek]

Good points, but the people who don't or don't want to upgrade aren't just
people who are afraid to change.  A friend who first introduced me to Debian
still uses Woody.  He hasn't upgraded because he downloaded a lot of
packages and upgrading would require more time than he has available.  I'd
like to dist-upgrade to etch, but I'll wait until it becomes officially
stable.  Right now, i just don't have the time to tinker with it.

--Steve Mazurek

On 2/5/07, Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt
> >>you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best
> >>choice.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
> >examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
> >appropriately.

> >
> I fully agree with you.

of course! ;-)


> The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use
> Ubuntu.

bleh. responsing anyway...

I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.

This same thing applies in the wondows world. I work on win98 machines
quite a bit because people don't want to change (there are hardware
issues too...).

People don't want to upgrade constantly but want instead to just go
out and buy a new computer every X-years and use whatever that new
system is. Ubuntu fits that mold nicely, IMO. Note that I have little
experience with ubuntu -- just my impression.

> Maybe if
> Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in
> more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.
>

not a bad idea. although we all know that unstable is a good name for
it, it can be scary. Many people think it means their system will be
unstable (which it might) not that it refers to the state of package
movement within the release. Ummm... how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only?

A

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Re: Xorg will not start -- Success report

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 02:55:40PM -0500, Ken Heard wrote:
> 
> The key question is why did the installer on the Etch RC1 CDROM not 
> install all the dependencies of the xserver-xorg?  Only three were 
> installed: x-server-xorg-core, and two others which I did not need: 
> x-server-imputs-acecad and x-server-video-apm.  The ones I did need I 
> had to install myself.

I think this was reported before on this list (heh, maybe it was your
thread). Apparently there was some bug floating around that caused
this. 

> 
> A few days later I used the same build of Etch RC1 to install it from 
> scratch on my laptop.  All the dependencies of x-server-xorg were 
> installed, and on first boot X.org was loaded without needing any manual 
> configuration on my part.

so why did it work the second time from the same build... I believe
the installer does an update before you get to the package selection
stage and perhaps this was fixed so that the update would catch the
problem and fix it. guessing there.

congrats on solving the problem.

A



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

[no subject]

[Andrew Critchlow]

I have a question which I have searched the internet and cannot find anything 
about this issue:When a user logs into the debian box they get "You Have 
newmail"For some reason there isn't a space in between 'new' and 'mail'. Anyone 
know how to correct this? Thanks

Re: Sound jerking with via 82xx soundcard

[Atis]

On 2/5/07, Raffaele Morelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


>
> Artsd is nothing wrong, it's just used for KDE sounds.. none of
> players tried was using it. For being sure, i just killed it before
> next tests.
>
> Just tried mplayer, surprisingly it played almost normal (lag every 5
> or so seconds :D), i set verbosity to 5, and got some output at moment
> of lag (see below).
>
> >From this i suspect it could be some kind of buffering problem. As i
> understand, it's  lagging when it cant play some larger chunk, so it's
> trying smaller and smaller..
>
> Anyone have any ideas what buffer i could check/increase?
>
> Regards,
> Atis.

Hi
I had similar problems with kde sound system, noatun, kaffeine... which
disappeared when I configured kde not to deal with sound at all.

Why don't you use alsa?

regards


Im having troubles under alsa.. therefor everything that uses it (arts
or /dev/dsp emulation) also inherits it... Anyway, it doesn't matter
much now, as i bought Audigy and 5.1 speakers.. now playing with
asoundrc...

Regards,
Atis


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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Thomas Dickey]

Gnu_Raiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>From: Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Wrote one day while in band camp:
>> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
>> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
>> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
>> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
>> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

> I assume you know about gnus right? Some would say that using slrn, and 
> mutt with emacs is heresy!

some people seem to like the color scheme

(mutt and tin with ncurses here, editing with vile ;-)

> You might want to try the emacswiki it has some good knowledge, if your 
> really up for some abuse try the emacs irc channel on freenode. Most will 
> probably point you to the wiki, and laugh unless you find a kind soul who 
> will help you. But your probably going to get a lot of questions about 
> the "proper way to use gnus". This might be what your looking for!

> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XtermExtras

That looks like enough for him to start on.  Even _newer_ xterm can do
more.  Perhaps some Emacs user will make a package using xterm's
modifyOtherKeys escape sequence - see notes starting here:

http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.log.html#xterm_216

Anyway - he shouldn't _have_ to use ESC (with xterm).

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net


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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Gnu_Raiz]

>From: Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Wrote one day while in band camp:
> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

I assume you know about gnus right? Some would say that using slrn, and 
mutt with emacs is heresy!

You might want to try the emacswiki it has some good knowledge, if your 
really up for some abuse try the emacs irc channel on freenode. Most will 
probably point you to the wiki, and laugh unless you find a kind soul who 
will help you. But your probably going to get a lot of questions about 
the "proper way to use gnus". This might be what your looking for!

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XtermExtras

Gnu_Raiz


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system freezes with Matrox G400 and GLX

[Jonas Meurer]

Hello,

I use a Matrox G400 DH as graphics controller, and i run debian/unstable
on an amd64 system.

Unfortunately this leads to system freezes when i try to use 3d
rendering (GLX).

Some examples which do always freeze my system are xmms visualisations,
tuxkart and mixxx.

Do you have any suggestions where to start debugging? Is this a glx/mesa
bug, or a kernel mga driver bug, or a hardware problem?

Here is my system information:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
Linux resivo 2.6.18-8-amd64-resivo #1 Sat Feb 3 08:52:31 CET 2007 x86_64 
GNU/Linux

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8385 [K8T800 AGP] Host Bridge 
(rev 01)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI bridge [K8T800/K8T890 
South]
00:06.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:06.1 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:06.2 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB 2.0 (rev 04)
00:07.0 Multimedia video controller: Internext Compression Inc iTVC15 MPEG-2 
Encoder (rev 01)
00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8169 Gigabit 
Ethernet (rev 10)
00:0d.0 RAID bus controller: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20378 (FastTrak 
378/SATA 378) (rev 02)
00:0e.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller 
(rev 80)
00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID 
Controller (rev 80)
00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
Controller (rev 81)
00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge 
[KT600/K8T800/K8T890 South]
00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 
AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] 
HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address 
Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM 
Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] 
Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G400/G450 (rev 04)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ glxinfo
name of display: :0.0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe,
GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_OML_sync_control,
GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_SGI_video_sync,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer,
GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_swap_control,
GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
OpenGL vendor string: VA Linux Systems Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI G400 20050609 AGP 1x
OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 6.5.1
OpenGL extensions:
GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_texture_compression,
GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine,
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_window_pos,
GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_logic_op, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint,
GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_copy_texture,
GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays,
GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal,
GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color,
GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_subtexture, GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D,
GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_object,
GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels,
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_IBM_r

Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
  

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
 
  
The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. 
   

bleh. responsing anyway... 


I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.
[...]
  
But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).



okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
know to pick that selection at the end. If you don't you end up here
with the "I think I did something wrong because all I get is 'login:'"
emails. 


Alright, I'm losing track of my thoughts now. bleh. let it go. We all
agree, it needs to be easier for newbs without giving up the soul of
debian ;)

A
  
I agree with you, I'm not one of those people who are completely against 
Ubuntu; I think just anything you can accomplish in Ubuntu you can 
accomplish in Debian, and probably more effectively/easily.


As for the newbie documentation, we should definitely get something 
together. Everyone who is interested email me at my personal emailing 
just to say "Aie!". Drop me an AIM/MSN/Jabber contact so I can reach you 
beyond email if possible.


I don't plan on heading this documentation, though. I just want to try 
to get everyone involved in it, because I feel at the rate we're going 
now it's going to end up being just me and one other person.



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:24:56PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >  
> >>The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> >>Ubuntu. 
> >>
> >
> >bleh. responsing anyway... 
> >
> >I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
> >their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
> >especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
> >it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
> >time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
> >course, just work forever.
> >[...]
> But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
> that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
> support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
> programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
> and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
> everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).

okay, clarification. and this is no defense of ubuntu. I am
indifferent. Ubuntu has a default environment that just works and is
fully implemented. Debian does too, but its not so obvious as you have
to select it at the last stage of installation. So, yes running debian
stable (or frankly just not upgrading any install of debian at some
point where you're satisfied with it) is effectively the same
thing. But getting there is not as direct as with ubuntu. ubuntu
caters to the windows user who wants to plug in the disk and have a
full blown working desktop without any real intervening stuff. (I know
this is not reality...). In debian you can do that, but you have to
know to pick that selection at the end. If you don't you end up here
with the "I think I did something wrong because all I get is 'login:'"
emails. 

Alright, I'm losing track of my thoughts now. bleh. let it go. We all
agree, it needs to be easier for newbs without giving up the soul of
debian ;)

A


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Re: Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Angelo Bertolli]

Michael M. wrote:
"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.
Well I think at the very least, we could all come up with answers to 
this for ourselves.  I know for me it involves two things:


1) Debian repositories contain a LOT of software (or maybe it's just the 
software I like).


2) Debian has the most excellent upgrade paths.

Angelo



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Unknown message when starting Icedove

[Niels Rasmussen]

Hi list,

I'm running debian testing etch.

I have this line in my.xsession-errors:

DOUBLE-CLICK: 400 --> -1 THRESHOLD: 8 --> -1 Warning: unrecognized command 
line flag -P


It appears everytime I start Icedove.

What does this mean ??


--
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Registred Linux user #133791
Get counted at http://counter.li.org


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
  
The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. 



bleh. responsing anyway... 


I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.
[...]
But it's the same way with Debian Stable/Testing. If you want a system 
that just /works/, you can run Stable. If Stable is too outdated/doesn't 
support your hardware, give Testing a run. If you really need a few 
programs (For me running Testing, I'll use checkinstall as an example) 
and don't mind a few bugs you can always install from source (Since 
everything in the repositories is GPL/BSD anyway).
Maybe if 
Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.





[...]  how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only? 
  
Referring to it as Sid seems like a good idea to me, but really no 
matter what it will be referred to as Unstable by the community; Which 
will probably just scare users away. The way I see it, is that the 
Debian mainsite shows that 3.1 Stable (Current) is the only "/workable/" 
release, and is very outdated. Testing (Which /apparently/ has bugs) is 
a bit more up to date, but not perfect. And Unstable will just break 
your system, but comes with the most updated programs!


In reality, running Debian Sid at this point in time is almost as 
unstable as running Ubuntu Edgy 6.10; Hell, even running Ubuntu Feisty 
7.04 is more unstable than using Sid.


I really think the mainsite has too much of an outdated, old look to it. 
I think that is one of the main things that scares people away. I mean, 
compare for yourself:


http://debian.org/
http://ubuntu.com/


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Re: Problem connecting to Wifi network

[Justin Hartman]

Thanks Wackojacko.
To fix my problem all I had to do was add this to my interfaces file:

iface eth0 inet dhcp
wpa-ssid crcwifi
wpa-psk password

Thanks for your help!
--
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Justin Hartman
PGP Key ID: 102CC123


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:45:17PM +, Chris Lale wrote:
> Michael Pobega wrote:
> >Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >[...]  I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot of people's 
> >needs 
> 
> On the other hand, there must be a lot of people who would find Debian a 
> great solution if only they could get started.

Amen Brother!

> 
> >(The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye candy, whereas 
> >Debian really offers only stability), and there's really nothing we 
> >can do about it.
> 
> This may be true for gamers and the like, but stabilty and security are 
> surely more important for a large number of home users who buy online, 
> bank online, use digital cameras, etc?
> 

I disagree. Granted it *should* be that way, but I think people *want*
the whizz-bang new stuff. It may not be what they need or should have,
but it is what they want. Why else would people buy new cars every 2
years? Not because there is anything wrong with the old one except
htat its not new. I know this goes counter to my argument in the
parent thread that people using computers don't like change, but I
think it follows. They want to stick with what they know until they
can get the new whizz-bang thing and then they jump. Their needs are
not a consideration in that. If they were many many people would still
be using 486's with wp5.0 or something along those lines.

[...]> 
> >
> >The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> >Ubuntu.
> 
> I read in a Linux magazine that Ubuntu's popularity was mainly due to a 
> vibrant community. Well, if that is the case, Debian already has that - 
> it just doesn't yet have much of a focus on "complete newbies" or 
> "BDUs". I think that Douglas's ideas for "complete computer newbies" 
> could help to fill this gap.

yup.

A


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Re: best terminal emulator for emacs -nw?

[Michael V. De Palatis]

Tyler,

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 03:55:05PM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to get emacs setup for mutt and slrn. It works really well,
> except for one thing. When I use it as my editor with emacs -nw, the
> alt- key combos get muddled by xterm en route to emacs, so that I have
> to use ESC instead. Is this unavoidable, or is there a terminal
> emulator that allows for the use of meta keys?

Try adding this to your ~/.Xresoures (or ~/.Xdefaults if that is what
you have named it):

xterm*metaSendsEscape: true

That seems to work for me. I also often use (u)rxvt, but that doesn't
have a special option set (it may, however, look at the xterm options
first, in which case that might be why).

-- 
Michael V. De Palatis
Georgia Institute of Technology
School of Physics
837 State Street
Atlanta, GA 30332-0430

em vee dee at gatech dot ee dee yoo
http://mike.depalatis.net


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 02:07:39PM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:
> >
> >  
> >>"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
> >>you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best 
> >>choice.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
> >examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
> >appropriately.

> >  
> I fully agree with you.

of course! ;-)


> The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
> Ubuntu. 

bleh. responsing anyway... 

I return to the example of my mom. Many people don't want to "update"
their system. They want it to just work and stay that way. Many users,
especially novices, don't deal well with change and don't want
it. Ubuntu, if you don't upgrade, is perfect in this respect. At the
time it is released, it just works. If you leave it there, if will, of
course, just work forever.

This same thing applies in the wondows world. I work on win98 machines
quite a bit because people don't want to change (there are hardware
issues too...). 

People don't want to upgrade constantly but want instead to just go
out and buy a new computer every X-years and use whatever that new
system is. Ubuntu fits that mold nicely, IMO. Note that I have little
experience with ubuntu -- just my impression.

> Maybe if 
> Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
> more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.
>

not a bad idea. although we all know that unstable is a good name for
it, it can be scary. Many people think it means their system will be
unstable (which it might) not that it refers to the state of package
movement within the release. Ummm... how about "CuttingEdge" instead
of "Bleeding Edge" or how about just refering to sid only? 

A


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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Shobhit Jindal]

some news
myself just installed kernel 2.6.18-4-686 and vmware (vmware-config.pl) was
configured without giving the error
- no linux/version.h in /usr/src/include/linux

not to mention 2.6.18-3-686 and 2.6.18-2-686 did give the error!

On 2/5/07, Margarita Manterola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The only
> > catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> > /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.
>
>  i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason
and
> not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.

I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.

--
Besos,
Marga





--
Registerd Linux User #426561
-
Shobhit Jindal
B.Tech. Part-III,
Department Of Electronics Engineering, ITBHU
INDIA

Re: What UPS to buy

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:44:30 -0500
Kevin Coyner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Some of APC's UPS units allow you to set the voltage sensitivity via
dip switches, some of the units allow you to set it via software, and
some don't let you adjust the sensitivity.  So if you plan to back up
your battery powered UPS with an external generator, make sure to get
a UPS with an adjustment for voltage sensitivity.


About two years ago, we had trouble at work due to an APC UPS that
would kick in every night. As we needed the computer at 5:00 AM we had
to connect the computer directly. When my boss wanted to throw away the
"faulty" UPS I took it home. After a Google search I found the User's
Manual describing the above mentioned dip-switches.

Needless to say I now have a pretty good working UPS, because of the
power fluctuations in my country and the stupidity of our IT-Service
(who couldn't figure out how to solve the problem).



Still the same battery?


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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Greg Folkert]

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 20:38 +0100, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
> Jan Schledermann told:
> 
> [...]
> > A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> > kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> > creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> > difference could cause the compile problem?
> 
> No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
> include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched or
> as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.

Have you applied the "vmware-any-any-XXX" updates(1)?

I get zero problems running VMware on a stock Debian kernel.


(1) http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update107.tar.gz
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Although, I am interested in helping to bring more people to Debian. 
I know that everyone is a BDU at one time, down to both you and me. 
If you need any help e-mail me at this address with anything you need 
done.





Perhaps there are enough contributors to this thread who are 
interested in producing "BDU" documentation that we could make 
something happen?




You can count me in on this, just send me a personal e-mail anytime and 
we can get a starting time setup. Hopefully AIM/MSN/Jabber would be good 
ways to contact you?



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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Chris Lale]

Michael Pobega wrote:

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
[...]  I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot of people's needs 


On the other hand, there must be a lot of people who would find Debian a 
great solution if only they could get started.


(The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye candy, whereas 
Debian really offers only stability), and there's really nothing we 
can do about it.


This may be true for gamers and the like, but stabilty and security are 
surely more important for a large number of home users who buy online, 
bank online, use digital cameras, etc?




[...]

What I'm trying to say is, if we are just a kind community and we 
don't lie to potential users, they will probably come back to Debian; 
And if they don't, they will at least have no gripes or negative 
things to say about it.

We can do all this and still make Debian more accessible.



The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu.


I read in a Linux magazine that Ubuntu's popularity was mainly due to a 
vibrant community. Well, if that is the case, Debian already has that - 
it just doesn't yet have much of a focus on "complete newbies" or 
"BDUs". I think that Douglas's ideas for "complete computer newbies" 
could help to fill this gap.



--
Chris.


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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Andrew Perrin]

Take a look here:

http://www.vmware.com/community/thread.jspa?messageID=76957&tstart=0

Essentially, vmware in its raw state doesn't compile with relatively newer 
kernels. You need patches to make them work. You can find these patches at 
http://platan.vc.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmware .


Once you download and tgunzip them you will simply run the installer from 
there.


Good luck.

Andy Perrin

--
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Assistant Professor of Sociology; Book Review Editor, _Social Forces_
University of North Carolina - CB#3210, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3210 USA
New Book: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/178592.ctl



On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, Bruno Buys wrote:


Margarita Manterola wrote:

Hi!

On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only
> catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
> /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.

 i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason and
not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.


I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
not.


I was trying with the vmware server. Anybody has a suggestion?
I have both kernel sources and headers installed.


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Re: VMWare on current kernels

[Elimar Riesebieter]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 the mental interface of
Jan Schledermann told:

[...]
> A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686
> kernel and the source code, is that the source code by default
> creates version 2.6.18 and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version
> difference could cause the compile problem?

No! Since 2.6.18 we're using include/linux/utsrelease.h instead of
include/linux/version.h. Either the vm-sources have to be patched or
as you suggested use  a selfconfigured (compiled) kernel.

Elimar

-- 
  The path to source is always uphill!
-unknown-


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Re: Friendly registrar

[Max Hyre]

Brian Keefer wrote:

> In light of what happened Wednesday, does anyone else have any
> additional suggestions for non-US registrars that won't yank your
> delegation just because a major corporation told them to (it seems
> GoDaddy would rather dump their customers than anger a major
> corporation)?

   It was scary watching the Godaddy commercials on
the Superbowl last night, and thinking ``if only the fans knew
the truth''.  But then, we all know advertising = lying.

-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Chris Lale]

Michael Pobega wrote:

Ken Heard wrote:
If GNU-Linux is going to make any serious inroads in the BDU market 
(BDU=brain dead user) which Microsoft dominates faute de mieux, there 
has to be documentation which the average BDU can understand. In the 
distros about which I have had personal experience (Red Hat 8 -- 
before RH abandoned the BDUs -- Debian Sarge and now Etch) such 
documentation seems to be an afterthought. [...]


Ken Heard
Toronto, Canada

Very good writing Ken, I enjoyed reading it. I agree with you that to 
appeal to the BDU market the Debian community will have to band 
together and create easy to follow documentation, but the question is 
do we really want it?


I know that bringing BDU people to Linux is an awesome idea, but the 
influx of BDUs would bring a "stupidity" to Debian, one that is often 
associated with distros like Ubuntu (Note: I have nothing against 
Ubuntu personally, it's just commonly known that most people frown 
upon Ubuntu users). In my experience Debian requires you know nothing 
about Linux to install it, but rather just how a computer works. As 
much as I'd love to have my mother use Debian over Windows, I'd rather 
give her a Fedora or Ubuntu disc before I'd ever give her a Debian 
installer.


Personally, I found the Etch installer easier then eg the Win98 
installer. I think that the reason why the Debian installer is perceived 
to be more problematic is that nine time out of ten you do not do a 
straightforward install to a blank hard drive. You usually want to do 
difficult things like non-destructively shrinking partitions, creating 
partitions manually, dual-booting etc.




Although, I am interested in helping to bring more people to Debian. I 
know that everyone is a BDU at one time, down to both you and me. If 
you need any help e-mail me at this address with anything you need done.





Perhaps there are enough contributors to this thread who are interested 
in producing "BDU" documentation that we could make something happen?


--
Chris.


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Re: highmem kernel question

[Tyler Smith]

On 2007-02-05, Andrei Popescu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:32:01 GMT
> Tyler Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've upgraded my RAM from 512M to 1.5G, ...  Google tells me that I
>> need a kernel with highmem support.  ... which one?
>> 
>> Linux blackbart 2.6.18-3-486 #1 Mon Dec 4 15:59:52 UTC 2006 i686
>> 
>> Thinkpad R60, Intel Core Solo 1660 Mhz CPU
>
> Use a -686 image.
>
>
> HTH,
> Andrei
> -- 

I installed the linux-image-2.6.18-3-686 from testing, and free now
reports 1,547,636kb total ram!

Thanks!


-- 
Regards,

Tyler Smit


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Re: Removing desktop environments

[Alan Ianson]

On Sun February 4 2007 14:37, cga2000 wrote:

> I did notice that /usr/share/ has over 700M of stuff in it and this
> looks suspicious.

That sounds about right. I have a base install plus kde and my /usr/share/ is 
1.8G. :)


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Re: ping: invalid argument

[Max Hyre]

Jonas Meurer wrote:

> I guess that the problem is '-n 1'. According to the ping manpage, the
> option '-n' takes no argument:

AAARRRrrrghh!  I should have used `-c 1'.  I'm so used to using another
implementation that uses -n for the number of pings that I forgot to
check what I was doing.  That it didn't give the error the first
(failed) time put me off the scent.

   Thanks for the reality check.

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 Max Hyre




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Re: VMWare on current kernels (was: debian rocks!)

[Jan Schledermann]

Margarita Manterola wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> On 2/5/07, Shobhit Jindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 2/5/07, Bruno Buys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > The only
>> > catch ins't debian related: vmware seems to not like my
>> > /usr/src/include/linux, and asks for a new linux/version.h.
>>
>>  i have been stuck to kernel 2.6.18-1-686 for the very same reason
>>  and
>> not upgrading have searched a bit but to no avail.
> 
> I had this problem as well.  And as a pointer, I could get the latest
> vmware-player to work, where the old vmware-workstation that I had did
> not.
> 

Do you only "have" the sources or did you actually compile your kernel with
the sources that you have on your computer?
As far as I recall from prior experiences with compiling stuff like VMWare,
you should compile the module with the source of the actual running kernel
and not an unused copy of source code.
I have compiled the necessary VMWare modules both with the 2.6.18 and 2.6.19
sources without any problems at all.
A significant difference between the pre-compiled 2.6.18-1-686 kernel and
the source code, is that the source code by default creates version 2.6.18
and NOT 2.6.18-1-686. This version difference could cause the compile
problem?


regards
Jan
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Re: Attracting newbies (Was Booting Debian/testing fails)

[Michael Pobega]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 07:15:44AM -0800, Michael M. wrote:

  
"why Debian instead of Ubuntu/SuSE/Linspire/etc.?" Do that and I doubt 
you'd get too many users for whom Debian probably isn't the best choice.





maybe our focus, as a trying-to-be-helpful user community is to
examine what the derivative offerings are and redirect people
appropriately. Now wait... I'm not advocating that debian activiely
steer people away from debian. I'm saying examine what a user needs,
and wants, and recommend the right distro for them, even if it is one
of the derivatives. The different stages of skill development and user
requirements frankly point to different distros anyway. I put my mom
on Ubuntu, not because I thought she couldn't handle deb, she
certainly could have, but because I knew that she wanted a "just
works" solution for her old PPC mac. It was perfect. Everything works
to her satisfaction out of the box. She in on dialup so has no real
major security issues, and since it all works, i haven't even bothered
to teach her how to upgrade. That was the "right" solution for her. 


For many usrs, debian is just not the "right" solution at this
time. Maybe it will be for that user in the future. I would rather
refer someone to the "right" solution and have them get a good feeling
about "those debian guys" because they listened to what I needed and
helped me out. That is certainly better than dragging some novice
through the wringer trying to help them get their sound working or
whatever. Those users, if properly educated and handled will look back
on their brief debian experience with good feelings. They will
recognise that their current o/s is base don debian and will
ultimately do good advocacy for debian in some manner or another. And,
if they decide to pursue the computer "education" more fully and they
want the challenge and flexibility of running full-blown debian then
they can do so. They will come back to this community with *some*
debian based background, a positive attitude --having been treated
well the first time through, and a higher general level of computer
skills that can be applied to the problem.

This leads to the interplay between the derivatives. With derivatives
focusing on the end-user desktop, they can filter improvements
upstream to debian which will ultimately benefit debian and all the
other deriv's too. 


meh. my .02

A
  
I fully agree with you. I think in reality Debian doesn't cater to a lot 
of people's needs (The more common desktop user just wants Beryl and eye 
candy, whereas Debian really offers only stability), and there's really 
nothing we can do about it.


I don't mean to change the subject, but I myself used Ubuntu because I 
felt that Debian was way too outdated for me. Then after multiple system 
breakages I decided to just switch over to Debian, and it ended up 
working fine. Debian has all the positives of Ubuntu (apt, deb files, 
etc.) without all of the negatives (I hate having to do a dist-upgrade, 
especially in Ubuntu since in Ubuntu it breaks your system 80% of the 
time). When I first came to the Debian community, I was told that I 
should go give Ubuntu a shot, and I did. And as Andrew said, I 
inevitably ended up crawling back to Debian and settled with the 
(Somewhat out of date) testing distribution. And to boot, I was so happy 
when I (Just yesterday) changed my sources.list from etch to testing, 
because now I'll never have to do a distro upgrade again.


What I'm trying to say is, if we are just a kind community and we don't 
lie to potential users, they will probably come back to Debian; And if 
they don't, they will at least have no gripes or negative things to say 
about it.


The one thing I really don't understand, though, is why people use 
Ubuntu. Please nobody respond to this or change the topic, but all I'm 
saying is that if you want something like Ubuntu use unstable; It is 
updated pretty often, equally as buggy as Ubuntu, but you never need to 
do a dist-upgrade. It just makes more sense to me, really. Maybe if 
Debian changed the word "/Unstable/" to something else it would bring in 
more users? Maybe Stable, Testing, and BleedingEdge? Just my thoughts.



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