date:20130827

Le 26/08/13 à 23:54, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
A À mon avis, abandonnes le SSD qui n'a pas beaucoup d'avantages
A en vitesse + cher, pour un bon Sata.

Euh...

Chez moi, le ssd apporte 
- un boot en 20s (mais comme faut attendre le bios et grub plus longtemps c'est 
pas très
  important), 
- les applis se lancent ~10x plus vite (ça se voit sur les goinfres), pas 
forcément important
- un gain en vitesse impressionnant dès que l'on a beaucoup de petits fichiers
  = claws-mail devenait pénible à utiliser avec 1M de mails sur le disque, et 
faire une
 recherche dans les archives à coup de regex demandait de la patience)
  = pour du grep sur des volumes moyens, par ex pour du développement, trouver 
tous les
 fichiers d'un projet qui utilisent telle classe, ça sert assez souvent, et 
avoir la réponse
 en 2s ou en 20s n'est pas tout à fait pareil.

Et par ailleurs, c'était indispensable pour moi avec de gros volumes de backup 
sur sata, lors
de la rotation des snapshot le disque est très sollicité pendant plus d'une 
heure par j et avoir
le système sur ssd permet de ne pas vraiment s'en apercevoir dans mon usage 
quotidien (sinon
c'était impossible de bosser pendant ce temps là, fallait programmer le backup 
la nuit et
laisser le PC allumé, un peu trop énergivore à mon goût).

Et j'ai pas rencontré de pb particulier pour installer ma debian dessus 
(j'avais fait
exactement comme avec un disque ordinaire, à l'époque avec une lenny je crois).

-- 
Daniel

La théorie est absurde dans la pratique
et la pratique est aveugle sans la théorie.
Kant

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Re: Installation debian 7 serveur ne boote pas

2013-08-27 Thread Grégoire COUTANT


Le 27/08/2013 11:20, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :

Et j'ai pas rencontré de pb particulier pour installer ma debian dessus 
(j'avais fait
exactement comme avec un disque ordinaire, à l'époque avec une lenny je crois).


Zut ! Enfin tant mieux pour toi plutôt :-)
Je vais réessayer encore, mais l'installation se passe très bien sur SSD 
ou DD classique, par contre avec le SSD ça ne boote pas, c'est donc bien 
lui qui pose problème, mais pourquoi ? J'aimerai bien le savoir.


Greg

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Re: Server Cracké

Le 26/08/13 à 17:08, honeyshell honeysh...@honeyshell.com a écrit :
H Je te joints à ce mail mon tuto pour l'installation/configuration de ssh,
H ainsi que l'installation de Fail2Ban.
H Avec cette configuration tu seras à l'abris des boots qui tentent de
H détecter les accès SSH peu sécurisés (mot de passe en root uniquement) sur
H le port 22.

Le plus simple (et secure) reste quand même d'interdire l'accès par mot de 
passe (n'autoriser
que ta clé, qui elle a une passphrase).

Pas besoin de se poser de question sur la solidité du pass (sinon celui de la 
clé) ni de savoir
si fail2ban ou le portknocking est efficace (ils me paraissent sans aucun 
intérêt avec
PasswordAuthentication no) .

Et pas besoin non plus de changer le port ssh (cacher la porte ne la rend pas 
mieux blindée,
c'est de l'illusion de sécurité).

-- 
Daniel

Il venait de lui dire : la jalousie est une pensée subjective
Elle lui plante un couteau dans le ventre en lui disant :
t'as qu'a faire semblant de mourir.
Les nuls

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Re: Server Cracké

Le 26/08/13 à 16:40, alain vanranst alainvanra...@gmail.com a écrit :
AV Comme vous l'aurez compris, je suis nul en sécurité, mais je ne demande
AV qu'à apprendre.

Autre truc utile, installer apticron pour être prévenu par mail dès qu'il y a 
une mise à jour à
faire (avec le détail du changelog et l'urgence relative de la màj).

Les plus téméraires peuvent configurer apt-cron pour installer automatiquement 
les paquets
provenant de security.debian.org, mais il y a un risque qu'une màj plante ou 
qu'un service ne
redémarre pas correctement.

-- 
Daniel

(écrit dans le livre d'or de plusieurs restaurants parisiens)
Je m'ai bien régaler. signe: Marguerite Duras
Pierre Desproges.

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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread honeyshell

Bonjour la liste,

DC  Le plus simple (et secure) reste quand même d'interdire l'accès par
mot de passe (n'autoriser
DC  que ta clé, qui elle a une passphrase).

c'est justement le but du tuto, tu ne l'as pas lu?

DC  Pas besoin de se poser de question sur la solidité du pass (sinon
celui de la clé) ni de savoir
DC  si fail2ban ou le portknocking est efficace (ils me paraissent sans
aucun intérêt avec
DC  PasswordAuthentication no) .

Je ne suis pas expert sur Fail2ban, mais je suppose que si il y
a matraquage sur le port ssh, le fait de mettre l'ip dans la jail permet de
moins solliciter ton service ssh. C'est déjà un plus.

DC  Et pas besoin non plus de changer le port ssh (cacher la porte ne la
rend pas mieux blindée,
DC  c'est de l'illusion de sécurité).

Le fait de le mettre sur un port supérieur à 10 000, permet déjà d'éviter
les boots basiques qui traînent sur la toile. Après oui si quelqu'un
s'intéresse à ton serveur, il trouvera la faille.

Sinon, est-ce que quelqu'un dans la liste à un bon lien, type tutoriel,
pour sécuriser son auto-hébergement (servcices utilisés : ssh, apache2,
wordpress, owncloud, dokuwiki). Car mon tuto est basique.

bonne journée à tous ;)

Re: Installation debian 7 serveur ne boote pas

2013-08-27 Thread andre_debian

On Tuesday 27 August 2013 11:20:01 Daniel Caillibaud wrote:
 Le 26/08/13 à 23:54, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
 A À mon avis, abandonnes le SSD qui n'a pas beaucoup d'avantages
 A en vitesse + cher, pour un bon Sata.

 Euh...
 Chez moi, le ssd apporte
 - un boot en 20s (mais comme faut attendre le bios et grub plus longtemps
 c'est pas très important),
 - les applis se lancent ~10x plus vite (ça se voit sur les goinfres), pas
 forcément important - un gain en vitesse impressionnant dès que l'on a
 beaucoup de petits fichiers = claws-mail devenait pénible à utiliser avec
 1M de mails sur le disque, et faire une recherche dans les archives à coup
 de regex demandait de la patience) = pour du grep sur des volumes moyens,
 par ex pour du développement, trouver tous les fichiers d'un projet qui
 utilisent telle classe, ça sert assez souvent, et avoir la réponse en 2s ou
 en 20s n'est pas tout à fait pareil.  Daniel

Parce que ton dd SSD marche bien,

alors que les miens étaient en rade,
reconnus par le BIOS une fois sur deux.
(le vendeur a bien confirmé leur panne)

andré


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Re: filesystem clock is behind system clock


Le 2013-08-27 08:44, Raphael Bauduin a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'ai ces messages chaque jour vers minuit:

Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2739]: warning: file system
clock is 139 seconds behind local clock
 Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2756]: warning: file system
clock is 127 seconds behind local clock
 Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2684]: warning: file system
clock is 166 seconds behind local clock

L'heure du serveur est maintenue avec ntp, et je ne constate pas de
différence d'heure par rapport à d'autres systèmes. Je ne vois aucun
log de mise à jour de l'heure à ce moment-là.

Je trouve aussi bizarre que à la même heure, des écarts différents
sont rapportés. à 00:13:47, les écarts sont simultanément de 127, 139
et 166 secondes.

Quelqu'un aurait-il une explication ou des suggestions de résolution?


Moi j'ai des questions est-ce que ça marche ?

Quel type de FS utilises tu ?
Tu as plusieurs serveurs ?
Ils sont tous sur debian ?
As-tu installé NTP sur chaque serveur ?

Il n'y a pas d'horloge dans un système de fichiers, le message 
d'avertissement indique, pour moi, un fichier dont la date est supérieur 
à la date système.


Julien

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Re: Server Cracké


Le 2013-08-27 11:48, honeyshell a écrit :

Bonjour la liste, 

DC  Pas besoin de se poser de question sur la solidité du pass
(sinon celui de la clé) ni de savoir
 DC  si fail2ban ou le portknocking est efficace (ils me paraissent
sans aucun intérêt avec
 DC  PasswordAuthentication no) .

Je ne suis pas expert sur Fail2ban, mais je suppose que si il y
a matraquage sur le port ssh, le fait de mettre l'ip dans la jail
permet de moins solliciter ton service ssh. C'est déjà un plus.


Oui et ça permet surtout d'économiser la bande passante



DC  Et pas besoin non plus de changer le port ssh (cacher la porte
ne la rend pas mieux blindée,
 DC  c'est de l'illusion de sécurité).

Le fait de le mettre sur un port supérieur à 10 000, permet déjà
d'éviter les boots basiques qui traînent sur la toile. Après oui
si quelqu'un s'intéresse à ton serveur, il trouvera la faille.

Sinon, est-ce que quelqu'un dans la liste à un bon lien, type
tutoriel, pour sécuriser son auto-hébergement (servcices utilisés :
ssh, apache2, wordpress, owncloud, dokuwiki). Car mon tuto est
basique.


Tu ne trouveras de tuto couvrant tout ça, avec les options que tu veux. 
Il faut le faire par étape. Dans ton cas, commence par trouver les infos 
de sécurisation pour SSH (je pense que c'est déjà fait). Ensuite, tu 
sécurises apache. une bonne pratique pour les services web avec 
authentification c'est de forcer l'HTTPS. Voir même d'utiliser 
l'authentification https de apache.


Cet article, montre comment ajouter l'HTTPS sur Apache.
http://www.debian-administration.org/article/349/

Il faut procéder par étape. Dis nous comment tu configures SSH, on te 
dira si c'est sécure ou pas. Ensuite, pareil pour apache 


Julien

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Re: Server Cracké -- installation de owncloud


Le 2013-08-27 11:48, honeyshell a écrit :

Bonjour la liste, 

Sinon, est-ce que quelqu'un dans la liste à un bon lien, type
tutoriel, pour sécuriser son auto-hébergement (servcices utilisés :
ssh, apache2, wordpress, owncloud, dokuwiki). Car mon tuto est
basique.


Je lance une installation de owncloud chez mais avec lighttpd et 
postgres. Je peux t'indiquer les phases de sécurisation. Tu l'installes 
avec les paquet deb ?


Julien

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Re: Installation debian 7 serveur ne boote pas

Le 27/08/13 à 11:30, Grégoire COUTANT gregoire.cout...@gmail.com a écrit :
GC avec le SSD ça ne boote pas, c'est donc bien 
GC lui qui pose problème, mais pourquoi ? J'aimerai bien le savoir.

Si tu es en MBR, tu as bien marqué ta partition bootable ?

(avec fdisk, p pour voir si tu as bien un * devant ta partition qui contient 
/boot, a pour le
mettre / l'enlever).

-- 
Daniel

Au train où vont les choses, les choses où vont les trains ne seront 
bientôt plus des gares !
Pierre Dac

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Re: filesystem clock is behind system clock

2013-08-27 Thread Gaëtan PERRIER

Le Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:44:11 +0200
Raphael Bauduin rbli...@gmail.com a écrit:

 Bonjour,
 
 J'ai ces messages chaque jour vers minuit:
 
 Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2739]: warning: file system
 clock is 139 seconds behind local clock
 Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2756]: warning: file system
 clock is 127 seconds behind local clock
 Aug 27 00:13:47 host postfix/cleanup[2684]: warning: file system
 clock is 166 seconds behind local clock
 
 L'heure du serveur est maintenue avec ntp, et je ne constate pas de
 différence d'heure par rapport à d'autres systèmes. Je ne vois aucun
 log de mise à jour de l'heure à ce moment-là.
 
 Je trouve aussi bizarre que à la même heure, des écarts différents
 sont rapportés. à 00:13:47, les écarts sont simultanément de 127, 139
 et 166 secondes.
 
 Quelqu'un aurait-il une explication ou des suggestions de résolution?
 
 Merci!
 
 Raph

Je ne sais pas si j'ai ces messages mais je confirme qu'il y a un
problème actuellement avec ntp car sur mon portable en testing l'heure
affichée à 3 à 4 minutes d'avance ...

Gaëtan

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gnome-terminal segfault

Bonjour,

J'ai 7~8 consoles ouvertes qui ont disparu sur un coup de roulette de souris au 
dessus de
l'une !

Sur une wheezy amd64 avec gnome classic, dans le kern.log je trouve

gnome-terminal[7121]: segfault at 1 ip 7f9649b0c816 sp 7fffbfe013e0 
error 4 in
libgobject-2.0.so.0.3200.4[7f9649af5000+4e000]

Ça peut être très gênant ce genre de blague, ça vous arrive ? Un moyen de le 
prévenir ?

J'ai l'impression que le pointeur était sur le bord de la fenêtre lors du coup 
de roulette qui
a provoqué le segfault, ça peut venir du window manager ?
(j'avais deux groupes d'onglets cote à cote, en voulant scroller dans la 
fenêtre de gauche j'ai
dû m'approcher ou passer au dessus de celle de droite)

J'ai regardé xterm mais visiblement il gère pas les onglets, et je vois pas 
comment m'en passer
sans risque (pris l'habitude de grouper mes consoles, soit par host soit par 
type de VM, si
elles se promènent partout je vais me gourer de console).
Et ça parait long de le configurer pour retrouver mes habitudes (couleurs, 
raccourcis, etc.),
mais ça c'est juste de la flemme (et du temps).

Merci

-- 
Daniel

Au train où vont les choses, les choses où vont les trains ne seront 
bientôt plus des gares !
Pierre Dac

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Re: Server Cracké

Le 27/08/13 à 12:32, julien jul...@nura.eu a écrit :
J  Je ne suis pas expert sur Fail2ban, mais je suppose que si il y
J  a matraquage sur le port ssh, le fait de mettre l'ip dans la jail
J  permet de moins solliciter ton service ssh. C'est déjà un plus.
J 
J Oui et ça permet surtout d'économiser la bande passante

C'est pas négligeable devant les ressources consommées par fail2ban ?

En cas de gros matraquage, je me demande si fail2ban consomme pas plus de 
ressources que le
matraquage (qui doit pas faire grand chose si y'a pas de mot de passe demandé 
et que
l'attaquant fourni pas de clé).

-- 
Daniel

Un clavier azerty en vaut deux.

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Re: Server Cracké


Le 2013-08-27 13:14, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :

Le 27/08/13 à 12:32, julien jul...@nura.eu a écrit :
J  Je ne suis pas expert sur Fail2ban, mais je suppose que si il y
J  a matraquage sur le port ssh, le fait de mettre l'ip dans la jail
J  permet de moins solliciter ton service ssh. C'est déjà un plus.
J
J Oui et ça permet surtout d'économiser la bande passante

C'est pas négligeable devant les ressources consommées par fail2ban ?


Fail2ban consomme un peu de CPU c'est tout. Dans le cas d'un serveur 
dédié, il y a un quota de bande passante. C'est donc la bande passante 
que je veux limiter.


Julien

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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread honeyshell

@Julien : merci pour tes conseils.

@DC : Fail2Ban est un script surveillant les accès réseau grâce aux logs
des serveurs. Lorsqu'il détecte des erreurs d'authentification répétées, il
prend des contre-mesures en bannissant l'adresse IP grâce à iptables.
Fail2Ban consomme en général 10 Mo. Le reste du travail est fait par
iptables.

Installation de owncloud et sécurisation

2013-08-27 Thread honeyshell

Julien  Je lance une installation de owncloud chez mais avec lighttpd et
postgres. Je peux t'indiquer les phases de sécurisation.

Pour l'instant je suis en configuration LAMP. Comme je vais avoir du
Wordpress, DokuWiki, et peut être bluemind, je ne souhaite pas coincer sur
des questions de documentation ou de compatibilité avec lighttpd ou
postgres.

Julien  Tu l'installes avec les paquet deb ?
J'avais pour idée d'utiliser le dépôt Owncloud pour être à la page.
Mauvaise idée?

Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread Johnny B


Le 08/27/2013 11:30 AM, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :

Le 26/08/13 à 17:08, honeyshell honeysh...@honeyshell.com a écrit :
H Je te joints à ce mail mon tuto pour l'installation/configuration de ssh,
H ainsi que l'installation de Fail2Ban.
H Avec cette configuration tu seras à l'abris des boots qui tentent de
H détecter les accès SSH peu sécurisés (mot de passe en root uniquement) sur
H le port 22.

Le plus simple (et secure) reste quand même d'interdire l'accès par mot de 
passe (n'autoriser
que ta clé, qui elle a une passphrase).

Pas besoin de se poser de question sur la solidité du pass (sinon celui de la 
clé) ni de savoir
Il est évident qu'un attaquant persévérant testera du bruteforce, c'est 
un principe de base logique de poser un pass strong meme avec un auth 
via clef publique. (les attaques peuvent aussi venir de la console physique)

si fail2ban ou le portknocking est efficace (ils me paraissent sans aucun 
intérêt avec
PasswordAuthentication no) .
Evidemment qu'ils ont un interet et n'ont rien a voir avec 
PasswordAuthentication no , fail2ban et port knocking agissent avant 
une négo avec le serveur SSH ce sont des outils nécessaire voir 
indispensables, encore faut il savoir les utiliser et ne pas juste faire 
un apt-get install et les laisser en plan




Et pas besoin non plus de changer le port ssh (cacher la porte ne la rend pas 
mieux blindée,
c'est de l'illusion de sécurité).
C'est aussi un principe de base. Il n'y a pas 1 solution à la sécurité. 
C'est un composé de plusieurs actions et méthodes. Si le port est 
modifié, l'attaquant va perdre un temps fou a catcher le port ssh et 
peut abandonner pour trouver une autre faille. Contruire un archi 
sécurisée c'est aussi se baser sur plusieurs composantes et faire perdre 
du temps à un attaquant est une action sécuritaire de base. Un firewall 
mal configuré est aussi une illusion de sécurité, donc oui modifier le 
port est une action qui ajoute 1+ dans toute la configuration d'une 
sécurisation






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Re: Server Cracké

Le 27/08/13 à 13:40, julien jul...@nura.eu a écrit :
J Le 2013-08-27 13:14, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :
J  Le 27/08/13 à 12:32, julien jul...@nura.eu a écrit :
J  J  Je ne suis pas expert sur Fail2ban, mais je suppose que si il y
J  J  a matraquage sur le port ssh, le fait de mettre l'ip dans la jail
J  J  permet de moins solliciter ton service ssh. C'est déjà un plus.
J  J
J  J Oui et ça permet surtout d'économiser la bande passante
J  
J  C'est pas négligeable devant les ressources consommées par fail2ban ?
J 
J Fail2ban consomme un peu de CPU c'est tout. 

Et des I/O disques (grep sur les logs).

J Dans le cas d'un serveur 
J dédié, il y a un quota de bande passante. C'est donc la bande passante 
J que je veux limiter.

J'ai jamais réussi à atteindre mes 100Mbs de limite de BP sans utiliser des 
SSD, j'ai toujours
les I/O disques qui limitent avant.

Ceci dit j'ai utilisé fail2ban pendant des années, mais si les mdp sont pas 
autorisés je doute
un peu de son intérêt (je me demande ce qu'une attaque bien bourrine en ssh 
pourrait consommer
en BP, j'ai l'impression que ça doit pas faire bcp d'octets / s, faudrait 
mesurer avec tcpdump
pendant une tentative).

-- 
Daniel

C'est quand on serre une dame de trop prés qu'elle trouve
qu'on va trop loin.
Alphonse Allais

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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread Christophe


Bonjour,

Le 27/08/2013 15:02, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :

J'ai jamais réussi à atteindre mes 100Mbs de limite de BP sans utiliser des 
SSD, j'ai toujours
les I/O disques qui limitent avant.

Ceci dit j'ai utilisé fail2ban pendant des années, mais si les mdp sont pas 
autorisés je doute
un peu de son intérêt (je me demande ce qu'une attaque bien bourrine en ssh 
pourrait consommer
en BP, j'ai l'impression que ça doit pas faire bcp d'octets / s, faudrait 
mesurer avec tcpdump
pendant une tentative).



Sans parler de serveur dédié, moi qui suis derrière un lien 
particulièrement faible, je sens très clairement la différence avec/sans 
: quand je suis au téléphone (SIP de bout en bout, pas sur une Box) et 
fail2ban désactivé, je le sais tout de suite quand il y a une tentative 
qui dure un peu dans le temps ;).

Accessoirement, ne n'autorise pas les authentifications par mot de passe.

En ce sens, je trouve qu'il y a un intérêt.

A première vue, Je ne pense pas tant que cela soit le nombre d'octets/s 
qui soit important, mais plutôt le nombre de packets/s dans le cas présent.


@+
Christophe.


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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread BERTRAND Joël


Daniel Caillibaud wrote:

Le 26/08/13 à 17:08, honeyshellhoneysh...@honeyshell.com  a écrit :
H  Je te joints à ce mail mon tuto pour l'installation/configuration de ssh,
H  ainsi que l'installation de Fail2Ban.
H  Avec cette configuration tu seras à l'abris des boots qui tentent de
H  détecter les accès SSH peu sécurisés (mot de passe en root uniquement) sur
H  le port 22.

Le plus simple (et secure) reste quand même d'interdire l'accès par mot de 
passe (n'autoriser
que ta clé, qui elle a une passphrase).


	Certes, mais cela oblige aussi de faire confiance à la machine hôte. 
Lorsque je suis chez un client, je ne fais pas confiance à sa machine a 
priori. Je ne lui donne donc pas ma clef.



Pas besoin de se poser de question sur la solidité du pass (sinon celui de la 
clé) ni de savoir
si fail2ban ou le portknocking est efficace (ils me paraissent sans aucun 
intérêt avec
PasswordAuthentication no) .

Et pas besoin non plus de changer le port ssh (cacher la porte ne la rend pas 
mieux blindée,
c'est de l'illusion de sécurité).


	Avec un ssh qui évite le compte root, un fail2ban bien configuré et des 
mots de passe un tant soit peu complexes, on évite déjà pas mal de 
problèmes.


Cordialement,

JKB

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Re: Installation debian 7 serveur ne boote pas

2013-08-27 Thread Grégoire COUTANT


Bonjour,

 Si tu es en MBR, tu as bien marqué ta partition bootable ?

GPT et il y a le flag boot

 Le SSD a bien le bon système de fichiers ?

ext4

 Est-il bien mis en bootable n°1 dans le BIOS ?

Oui, c'est UEFI et c'est bien une table de partition GPT :

(parted) print
Model: ATA Samsung SSD 840 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdb: 120GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: gpt

Number  Start   EndSize   File system  Name  Flags
 1  1049kB  512MB  511MB  fat32  boot
 2  512MB   768MB  256MB  ext2
 3  768MB   120GB  119GB lvm

Par contre ce qui est bizarre, c'est qu'avec fdisk, il ne me sort qu'une 
partition :


WARNING: GPT (GUID Partition Table) detected on '/dev/sdb'! The util 
fdisk doesn't support GPT. Use GNU Parted.


Disk /dev/sdb: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders, total 234441648 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   1   234441647   117220823+  ee  GPT

 Il semble que le BIOS tente de booter sur un DD
 non déclaré ou non bootable ...

Yes, ça on est d'accord

Greg

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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread Harang Jean-Marc


Le 27/08/2013 17:10, BERTRAND Joël a écrit :


Avec un ssh qui évite le compte root, un fail2ban bien configuré 
et des mots de passe un tant soit peu complexes, on évite déjà pas mal 
de problèmes.



bonsoir,

c'est vrai que je me suis contenté de ça sur mon dédié perso, avec un fw 
de base quand même et que j'ai 0 problème. je précise que je n'ai que 
très peu d'applications web en PHP, ça doit aider aussi ...


Mais qu'entends-tu par fail2ban bien configuré ? je pense que ça peut 
être instructif, en particulier pour des gens comme moi dont ce n'est 
pas le métier ;) Juste quelques points clefs, hein :)


merci
--
jean-marc

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Re: Installation debian 7 serveur ne boote pas

2013-08-27 Thread andre_debian

On Tuesday 27 August 2013 17:54:27 Grégoire COUTANT wrote:
 Bonjour,
   Si tu es en MBR, tu as bien marqué ta partition bootable ?
 GPT et il y a le flag boot
   Le SSD a bien le bon système de fichiers ?
 ext4
   Est-il bien mis en bootable n°1 dans le BIOS ?
 Oui, c'est UEFI et c'est bien une table de partition GPT :

 (parted) print
 Model: ATA Samsung SSD 840 (scsi)
 Disk /dev/sdb: 120GB
 Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
 Partition Table: gpt

 Number  Start   EndSize   File system  Name  Flags
   1  1049kB  512MB  511MB  fat32  boot
   2  512MB   768MB  256MB  ext2
   3  768MB   120GB  119GB lvm

Samsung : est-il le SSD sinon lequel ?
Conflit avec le mode GPT ?

Je vois :
1  fat32 = boot : de quoi s'agit-il ?
3  lvm = tu as bien un lvm ?  y aurait pas un conflit avec le ssd ?

andré




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Re: Server Cracké

2013-08-27 Thread BERTRAND Joël


Harang Jean-Marc wrote:

Le 27/08/2013 17:10, BERTRAND Joël a écrit :


Avec un ssh qui évite le compte root, un fail2ban bien configuré et
des mots de passe un tant soit peu complexes, on évite déjà pas mal de
problèmes.


bonsoir,

c'est vrai que je me suis contenté de ça sur mon dédié perso, avec un fw
de base quand même et que j'ai 0 problème. je précise que je n'ai que
très peu d'applications web en PHP, ça doit aider aussi ...


Ça aide aussi ;-)


Mais qu'entends-tu par fail2ban bien configuré ? je pense que ça peut
être instructif, en particulier pour des gens comme moi dont ce n'est
pas le métier ;) Juste quelques points clefs, hein :)


	Ne pas garder la configuration par défaut. Je ne sais pas comment est 
livré actuellement fail2ban, mais sur mes machines, il ne fait pas que 
regarder ssh. Il regarde tous les auters services potentiellement 
dangereux et banni plus rapidement les IP (et pour des durées d'autant 
plus longues que l'origine est bizarre... Je me connecte rarement en ssh 
depuis la Chine ou depuis un réseau zombie).


	Et bien configuré, cela veut dire aussi regarder ce qui se passe sur le 
réseau interne. La seule machine qui est tombée sur l'un de mes réseaux 
a subi une attaque depuis un PC vérolé. On ne pense pas trop à cela sur 
les petits réseaux.


	Et toujours ceinture _et_ bretelle. Le but n'est pas d'interdire à 
quelqu'un d'entrer sur des machines mais de le ralentir le plus possible.


Cordialement,

JKB

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Re: Antena WiFi USB ¿compatible?

2013-08-27 Thread Leo

 necesito que me contesten si hay una base de datos con antenas
compatibles disponible en la web...

Acá está la información que buscas:
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Devices/USB
Un saludo.

Re: Error extraño vlc en debian

El día 26 de agosto de 2013 18:31, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:12:11 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

Hola muy buenas, siempre he tenido buena experiencia con vlc aunque
reconozco que también uso kaffeine, smplayer...

Nunca he tenido ningún problema con vlc, es un monstruo y me reconocía
prácticamente cualquier formato. Pero ahora de buenas a primeras no es
capaz ni de abrirme un .avi , error:

Puedes darle más verbosidad a la salida con:

vlc -vv archivo.avi

Así verás qué biblioteca no encuentra o no puede cargar.

Sin módulo decodificador adecuado:
VLC no soporta el formato de audio o vídeo «mp4v». Desafortunadamente no
hay modo de arreglarlo.
Sin módulo decodificador adecuado:
VLC no soporta el formato de audio o vídeo «mpga». Desafortunadamente no
hay modo de arreglarlo.

Hum... revisa esto:

https://wiki.videolan.org/MPEG-4/

Hablan de dos paquetes (ffmpeg y mpeg4ip) como posibles opciones para
este tipo de códecs A/V.

Sé que el mensaje es claro, pero nunca he visto esto...Me instale los
codecs multimedia desde la repo.

Tampoco yo lo he visto nunca. De todas formas, pensaba que VideoLAN
instalaba sus propios códecs, es decir, que no tira del ffmpeg que
tengas instalado en Debian desde sus repos sino que usa el suyo propio
pero quizá me equivoque.

En cambio, kaffeine, smplayer, kplayer me lo reproducen sin
problemas...Si imagino la respuesta, si te funciona en otros
reproductores porque no los usas..Simplemente me gustaría saber el por
qué de este error...

¿Tienes el VLC de Debian o descargado de VLC?

Saludos,

--
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Me descargué la última versión porque debian no suele estar a la
última, pero aún así en opensuse también me pasaba y lo instale desde
los repos...Puede ser que en función de la distro metan las
dependencias de esos codec o no...Imagino...

Saludos.

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OFF [TOPIC] Dns Failover baratito pero efectivo...

Hola muy buenas, estoy buscando  para contratar un dns que soporte
failover ya que el actual que tenemos nominalia no lo soporta, es
muy sencillito. Había visto este googleando antes de postear por aquí:

http://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/services/dns-failover-system-monitoring/

Es bastante baratito este, porque queríamos cogerlo en amazon pero
como te cobra por servicio levantado y aparte por cada petición...Si
vamos a recibir millones de peticiones todos los meses el gasto puede
ser brutal.

La pregunta es si conocéis alguno que sea también baratito, estable y
soporte failover...

Es decir, compruebe si está online la primera resolución de dns y si
no, que actualice el dns y lo cambie al secundario...

DNS primario: example.org -- 1.1.1.1
DNS secundario: example.org -- 7.7.7.7

La idea sería que comprobará también un check http la cabecera de la
página web a donde resuelve de apache, eso sí que lo tiene el servicio
route53 de Amazon.

Saludos y gracias como siempre.


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OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

2013-08-27 Thread jEsuSdA 8)

Hola a todos!

Perdonad por el OT, pero creo que el tema tiene relación con nuestro
sistema operativo, al menos a nivel de aplicaciones.

Soy feliz usuario de varias cuentas de mensajería que manejo de forma
centralizada y cómoda a través de Pidgin. Sin embargo, cada vez más
gente ha ido migrando a las aplicaciones móviles con protocolos
privativos. La mayoría de la gente ha caído presa de la fiebre del
whatsapp y line desde hace tiempo.

Yo, de momento, me resisto a usar estas aplicaciones por varias cuestiones:

+ No son abiertas, ni libres, ni gratuitas (si entendemos que pese a que
cuesten 0€ tienen un coste sobre la privacidad)
+ No tienen clientes para escritorio linux ( lo cual obliga a estar
pendiente del móvil y escribir a través de él y no es algo con lo que me
sienta especialmente cómodo)

La cuestión es que me preguntaba si existe algún programa que conozcáis
que sirva para mensajería móvil pero que reúna las siguientes
características:

+ que sea libre y gratuito.
+ que tenga un cliente de escritorio o que su red se pueda usar con
clientes de escritorio existentes (pej. pidgin) o en su defecto que
tenga un cliente vía web.

+ que sirva para mensajería individual y por grupos.
+ que permita envío de adjuntos.

Buscando por ahí encontré Kontalk
https://code.google.com/p/kontalk/
http://kontalk.org/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kontalk
https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdcategory=Internetfdid=org.kontalk

Promete bastante, aunque la versión compatible con el protocolo de
jabber está aún en beta. Si alguno lo ha probado estaría interesado en
su opinión.

También me recomendaron Xabber, que aunque parece bastante maduro y
funcional, no parece muy intuitivo a la hora de crear grupos (al menos
yo no supe cómo crear grupos de conversaciones).

https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdcategory=Internetfdid=com.xabber.androiddevfdpage=3

De alguna forma, lo que voy buscando es un programa de mensajería que no
me obligue a usar el móvil, sino que me permita usarlo desde mi Debian
de forma cómoda (aunque el resto de contactos sí estén interaccionando
desde su móvil).

Alguna idea?

Un saludo!
jEsuSdA 8)

Re: OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

2013-08-27 Thread celtictux .

Verás, yo sigo, como tú, siendo reacio a usar ese tipo de programas, mi
sugerencia, no te compliques la vida!, vete a http://www.sendmassage.com, y
envía SMS gratis al móvil que quieras y sin límite. te aseguro que
funciona!. Te evitarás de instalar porquerías.

Saludos!

El 27 de agosto de 2013 13:05, jEsuSdA 8) lis...@jesusda.com escribió:

Hola a todos!

Perdonad por el OT, pero creo que el tema tiene relación con nuestro
sistema operativo, al menos a nivel de aplicaciones.

Soy feliz usuario de varias cuentas de mensajería que manejo de forma
centralizada y cómoda a través de Pidgin. Sin embargo, cada vez más gente
ha ido migrando a las aplicaciones móviles con protocolos privativos. La
mayoría de la gente ha caído presa de la fiebre del whatsapp y line desde
hace tiempo.

Yo, de momento, me resisto a usar estas aplicaciones por varias cuestiones:

La cuestión es que me preguntaba si existe algún programa que conozcáis
que sirva para mensajería móvil pero que reúna las siguientes
características:

+ que sea libre y gratuito.
+ que tenga un cliente de escritorio o que su red se pueda usar con
clientes de escritorio existentes (pej. pidgin) o en su defecto que tenga
un cliente vía web.
+ que sirva para mensajería individual y por grupos.
+ que permita envío de adjuntos.

Promete bastante, aunque la versión compatible con el protocolo de jabber
está aún en beta. Si alguno lo ha probado estaría interesado en su opinión.

También me recomendaron Xabber, que aunque parece bastante maduro y
funcional, no parece muy intuitivo a la hora de crear grupos (al menos yo
no supe cómo crear grupos de conversaciones).

https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdcategory=Internetfdid=com.xabber.androiddevfdpage=3

De alguna forma, lo que voy buscando es un programa de mensajería que no
me obligue a usar el móvil, sino que me permita usarlo desde mi Debian de
forma cómoda (aunque el resto de contactos sí estén interaccionando desde
su móvil).

Alguna idea?

Un saludo!
jEsuSdA 8)

--
***celtictux***

Re: OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

2013-08-27 Thread Jose L Triviño

Gtalk?

Enviado con Aquamail para Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

El 27 de agosto de 2013 13:05:05 jEsuSdA 8) lis...@jesusda.com escribio:

Hola a todos!

Perdonad por el OT, pero creo que el tema tiene relación con nuestro
sistema operativo, al menos a nivel de aplicaciones.

Soy feliz usuario de varias cuentas de mensajería que manejo de forma
centralizada y cómoda a través de Pidgin. Sin embargo, cada vez más gente
ha ido migrando a las aplicaciones móviles con protocolos privativos. La
mayoría de la gente ha caído presa de la fiebre del whatsapp y line desde
hace tiempo.

Yo, de momento, me resisto a usar estas aplicaciones por varias cuestiones:

La cuestión es que me preguntaba si existe algún programa que conozcáis que
sirva para mensajería móvil pero que reúna las siguientes características:

+ que sea libre y gratuito.
+ que tenga un cliente de escritorio o que su red se pueda usar con
clientes de escritorio existentes (pej. pidgin) o en su defecto que tenga
un cliente vía web.

+ que sirva para mensajería individual y por grupos.
+ que permita envío de adjuntos.

Promete bastante, aunque la versión compatible con el protocolo de jabber
está aún en beta. Si alguno lo ha probado estaría interesado en su opinión.

También me recomendaron Xabber, que aunque parece bastante maduro y
funcional, no parece muy intuitivo a la hora de crear grupos (al menos yo
no supe cómo crear grupos de conversaciones).

https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdcategory=Internetfdid=com.xabber.androiddevfdpage=3

De alguna forma, lo que voy buscando es un programa de mensajería que no me
obligue a usar el móvil, sino que me permita usarlo desde mi Debian de
forma cómoda (aunque el resto de contactos sí estén interaccionando desde
su móvil).

Alguna idea?

Un saludo!
jEsuSdA 8)

Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

El Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:59:22 -0300, ciracusa escribió:

 On 26/08/13 11:05, Camaleón wrote:

(...)

 Ahora, no encuentro por donde buscar el problema ya que en los log no
 encuentro nada de nada.
  
 (...)

 Todavía estoy esperando una respuesta:

 http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/2013/08/msg00763.html

 No recibí nada Camaleon, aquí va la respuesta.
 
 Esto decías tú:
 
 Puede ser el driver de la tarjeta gráfica. ¿Qué tarjeta tienes y qué
 driver usas?
 
 A falta de más información (p. ej., el registro del servidor Xorg que
 tienes en /var/log/Xorg.*.log, podría ser útil),
 
 Aquí va
 
 http://pastebin.com/ejqZjedq

Estupendo, muchas gracias.

En ese registro que mandas veo algunas cosas curiosas (no está completo, 
creo que faltan más datos al inicio de ese archivo) como por ejemplo que 
te está cargando el driver VESA algo que no suele ser lo más apropiado.

Y parece que tienes una gráfica Intel:

***
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics Chipset 
Accelerated VGA BIOS
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 1.0
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: Intel Corporation
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics 
Controller
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: Hardware Version 0.0
***

Manda la salida del comando lspci | grep -i intel para que podamos ver 
exactamente el chipset del adaptador. Lo raro es que teniendo una gráfica 
intel te cargue el driver VESA, algo pasa por ahí...
 
 intenta iniciar el sistema con el KMS desactivado a ver si notas alguna
 mejoría.
 
 Que es KMS?

Es el Kernel Mode Setting, un modo del kernel que permite gestionar de 
manera más eficiente el entorno X y las consolas. Al desactivar el KMS se
tiene que cargar el driver VESA genérico (que es lo que te está pasando a
ti y te da problemas) por lo que entiendo que lo que tendrías que hacer es
lo contrario: intentar que te cargue el módulo intel para ver si así te
funciona correctamente el salto entre las tty y el entorno gráfico.

https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting

 Te estarás refiriendo a KDM?

No, KDM es el gestor de sesiones de KDE, es otra cosa :-)

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Antena WiFi USB ¿compatible?

El Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:09:22 -0300, Ariel Martin Bellio escribió:

 ¿Donde debo buscar si una antena USB WiFi es compatible con GNU/Linux?

Pues debes fijarte en el chipset que usa el adaptador y luego comprobar 
qué driver usa y si está soportado por la versión del kernel que vayas a 
instalar:

https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi

 http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-464967544-placa-de-red-wifi-tp-
link-tl-wn722n-adaptador-usb-150mbps-n-_JM
 
 Esa es la que me interesa, pero solamente necesito que me contesten si 
 hay una base de datos con antenas compatibles disponible en la web...

Bueno, la antena -por su condición de mera antena realizada con 
materiales conductores- será compatible :-P, lo que te interesa es la 
circuitería. Veamos lo que dice la hoja de especificaciones:

http://www.tp-link.com/mx/products/details/?model=TL-WN722N#spec

Pues no dice nada (para variar...), pero el driver para windows es un 
athuw8 que quiere decir que usa el driver atheros, en principio 
excelente para linux por lo que seguramente te funcione con el driver 
ath9 o si es un chipset muy moderno quizá tengas que usar el driver 
compat-wireless más actualziado.

Saludos,

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Re: Error extraño vlc en debian

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:00:26 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

 El día 26 de agosto de 2013 18:31, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com
 escribió:

(...)

 Puedes darle más verbosidad a la salida con:

 vlc -vv archivo.avi

 Así verás qué biblioteca no encuentra o no puede cargar.

Manda la salida de ese comando que, aunque es muy verboso, seguramente te 
dirá qué archivo está buscando para el códec.

 ¿Tienes el VLC de Debian o descargado de VLC?

 Me descargué la última versión porque debian no suele estar a la última,
 pero aún así en opensuse también me pasaba y lo instale desde los
 repos...Puede ser que en función de la distro metan las dependencias de
 esos codec o no...Imagino...

Ok... pues más raro aún que te dé problemas si tienes la última 
versión :-?

Saludos,

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Re: OFF [TOPIC] Dns Failover baratito pero efectivo...

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:22:15 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

 Hola muy buenas, estoy buscando  para contratar un dns que soporte
 failover ya que el actual que tenemos nominalia no lo soporta, es muy
 sencillito. Había visto este googleando antes de postear por aquí:
 
 http://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/services/dns-failover-system-monitoring/
 
 Es bastante baratito este, porque queríamos cogerlo en amazon pero como
 te cobra por servicio levantado y aparte por cada petición...Si vamos a
 recibir millones de peticiones todos los meses el gasto puede ser
 brutal.
 
 La pregunta es si conocéis alguno que sea también baratito, estable y
 soporte failover...

(...)

Nosotros estamos usando Nettica¹ peor si te digo la verdad no sé si 
admite round-robin... espera que busco... ah, creo que lo han metido en 
la sección Failsafe² y en su FAQ³ (Do you support round-robin DNS 
entries?).

No sé si son caros o no (nosotros pagamos 50$/año para gestionar 50 
dominios, lo que ellos llaman Bulk DNS Service como servidor DNS 
primario) lo que sí te puedo decir es que desde que los estamos usando 
(hace 7 años) no hemos tenido ningún problema (ni caídas, ni time-outs...) 
y los cambios en las zonas son instantáneos (no tengo ni idea de cómo 
lo hacen pero cuando aceptas un cambio de zona y ejecutas una consulta DNS 
para ver esa actualización, no han pasado ni 30 segundos y ya aparece 
reflejada :-o).

Sería cuestión de que, en el caso de que te parezca interesante, 
preguntarles directamente si permiten lo que buscas para ir sobre seguro.

¹http://www.nettica.com
²http://www.nettica.com/Failover/Service.aspx
³http://www.nettica.com/Faqs/Dns.aspx#P6

Saludos,

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Re: OFF [TOPIC] Dns Failover baratito pero efectivo...

El día 27 de agosto de 2013 16:15, Maykel Franco
maykeldeb...@gmail.com escribió:
El día 27 de agosto de 2013 16:06, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:22:15 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

Hola muy buenas, estoy buscando para contratar un dns que soporte
failover ya que el actual que tenemos nominalia no lo soporta, es muy
sencillito. Había visto este googleando antes de postear por aquí:

http://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/services/dns-failover-system-monitoring/

Es bastante baratito este, porque queríamos cogerlo en amazon pero como
te cobra por servicio levantado y aparte por cada petición...Si vamos a
recibir millones de peticiones todos los meses el gasto puede ser
brutal.

La pregunta es si conocéis alguno que sea también baratito, estable y
soporte failover...

(...)

Nosotros estamos usando Nettica¹ peor si te digo la verdad no sé si
admite round-robin... espera que busco... ah, creo que lo han metido en
la sección Failsafe² y en su FAQ³ (Do you support round-robin DNS
entries?).

No sé si son caros o no (nosotros pagamos 50$/año para gestionar 50
dominios, lo que ellos llaman Bulk DNS Service como servidor DNS
primario) lo que sí te puedo decir es que desde que los estamos usando
(hace 7 años) no hemos tenido ningún problema (ni caídas, ni time-outs...)
y los cambios en las zonas son instantáneos (no tengo ni idea de cómo
lo hacen pero cuando aceptas un cambio de zona y ejecutas una consulta DNS
para ver esa actualización, no han pasado ni 30 segundos y ya aparece
reflejada :-o).

Sería cuestión de que, en el caso de que te parezca interesante,
preguntarles directamente si permiten lo que buscas para ir sobre seguro.

¹http://www.nettica.com
²http://www.nettica.com/Failover/Service.aspx
³http://www.nettica.com/Faqs/Dns.aspx#P6

Saludos,

--
Camaleón

Mil gracias Camaleón...Lo único que no es un round robin lo que busco,
es un dns failover. Es decir, el que he pasado la URL que soporte
check tcp, http, https...:

DNS Made Easy’s monitoring nodes check every 2 to 4 minutes to ensure
your primary IP is responding. You can configure the DNS Made Easy
monitoring systems to check if your service is running on either TCP,
UDP, HTTP, or HTTPS protocols, and on any port you desire. As soon as
any of your services fail to respond from at least two different
geographic monitoring locations, your traffic will automatically be
moved to a different system. This minimizes the amount of downtime
that would result from an outage. If used in conjunction with our
System Monitoring service, an email will be sent immediately notifying
your contact email address of the outage.

En caso de caída del apache, como el check tcp o cabecera https,
http...Si no funciona, tire del segundo dns...En cuanto se recupere el
primero, ya tire otra vez...

Gracias nuevamente.

Saludos.

Que por lo que veo, lo soporta:

http://www.nettica.com/Failover/Service.aspx

Thanks.

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Re: OFF [TOPIC] Dns Failover baratito pero efectivo...

El día 27 de agosto de 2013 16:06, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:22:15 +0200, Maykel Franco escribió:

http://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/services/dns-failover-system-monitoring/

La pregunta es si conocéis alguno que sea también baratito, estable y
soporte failover...

(...)

Sería cuestión de que, en el caso de que te parezca interesante,
preguntarles directamente si permiten lo que buscas para ir sobre seguro.

¹http://www.nettica.com
²http://www.nettica.com/Failover/Service.aspx
³http://www.nettica.com/Faqs/Dns.aspx#P6

Saludos,

--
Camaleón

Mil gracias Camaleón...Lo único que no es un round robin lo que busco,
es un dns failover. Es decir, el que he pasado la URL que soporte
check tcp, http, https...:

En caso de caída del apache, como el check tcp o cabecera https,
http...Si no funciona, tire del segundo dns...En cuanto se recupere el
primero, ya tire otra vez...

Gracias nuevamente.

Saludos.

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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread Javier Silva

 Puede ser el driver de la tarjeta gráfica. ¿Qué tarjeta tienes y qué
 driver usas?

Tal como dice Camaleon, también creo que efectivamente el problema es
la gráfica, ya que está utilizando el VESA, cuando debería usar el de
Intel. En la nueva estable Wheezy si utilizas un Intel con gráfica, se
muestra la siguiente salida:

[16.400] (II) intel: Driver for Intel Integrated Graphics Chipsets: i810,
i810-dc100, i810e, i815, i830M, 845G, 854, 852GM/855GM, 865G, 915G,
E7221 (i915), 915GM, 945G, 945GM, 945GME, Pineview GM, Pineview G,
965G, G35, 965Q, 946GZ, 965GM, 965GME/GLE, G33, Q35, Q33, GM45,
4 Series, G45/G43, Q45/Q43, G41, B43, B43, Clarkdale, Arrandale,
Sandybridge Desktop (GT1), Sandybridge Desktop (GT2),
Sandybridge Desktop (GT2+), Sandybridge Mobile (GT1),
Sandybridge Mobile (GT2), Sandybridge Mobile (GT2+),
Sandybridge Server, Ivybridge Mobile (GT1), Ivybridge Mobile (GT2),
Ivybridge Desktop (GT1), Ivybridge Desktop (GT2), Ivybridge Server,
Ivybridge Server (GT2)

Has podido mirar el enlace de OpenVZ que te envié anteriormente?


---
Un saludo a todos/as.
Javier Silva


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Re: OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:05:05 +0200, jEsuSdA 8) escribió:

 Hola a todos!

Ese html...

 Perdonad por el OT, pero creo que el tema tiene relación con nuestro
 sistema operativo, al menos a nivel de aplicaciones.
 
 Soy feliz usuario de varias cuentas de mensajería que manejo de forma
 centralizada y cómoda a través de Pidgin. 

¿Y cuál es el problema con Pidgin/Empathy? Son multi-protocolo ¿no? :-?

 Sin embargo, cada vez más gente ha ido migrando a las aplicaciones
 móviles con protocolos privativos. La mayoría de la gente ha caído
 presa de la fiebre del whatsapp y line desde hace tiempo.

Ah, de eso no te vas a librar: si quieres interactuar con lines, 
whatsappes, wechats... etc. de momento no hay nada, aunque creo que line 
sí tiene una aplicación para windows y mac. 

Sinceramente, creo que es una moda pasajera como lo fue en su día Skype 
(aplicación que no he instalado jamás ya que me decanté por el uso de 
Ekiga y el protocolo estándar SIP).

 Yo, de momento, me resisto a usar estas aplicaciones por varias
 cuestiones:
 
 + No son abiertas, ni libres, ni gratuitas (si entendemos que pese a que
 cuesten 0€ tienen un coste sobre la privacidad)
 + No tienen clientes para escritorio linux ( lo cual obliga a estar
 pendiente del móvil y escribir a través de él y no es algo con lo que me
 sienta especialmente cómodo)

Completamente de acuerdo, además considero que son auténtico peligro y un 
tremendo engañabobos.

 La cuestión es que me preguntaba si existe algún programa que conozcáis
 que sirva para mensajería móvil pero que reúna las siguientes
 características:
 
 + que sea libre y gratuito.
 + que tenga un cliente de escritorio o que su red se pueda usar con
 clientes de escritorio existentes (pej. pidgin) o en su defecto que
 tenga un cliente vía web.
 + que sirva para mensajería individual y por grupos.
 + que permita envío de adjuntos.
 
 
 Buscando por ahí encontré Kontalk https://code.google.com/p/kontalk/
 http://kontalk.org/
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kontalk
 https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?
fdcategory=Internetfdid=org.kontalk

 Promete bastante, aunque la versión compatible con el protocolo de
 jabber está aún en beta. Si alguno lo ha probado estaría interesado en
 su opinión.

Espera mejor a que dejen de usar un protocolo propietario y si aún están 
vivos les das un chance.

 También me recomendaron Xabber, que aunque parece bastante maduro y
 funcional, no parece muy intuitivo a la hora de crear grupos (al menos
 yo no supe cómo crear grupos de conversaciones).
 
 https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?
fdcategory=Internetfdid=com.xabber.androiddevfdpage=3
 
 
 De alguna forma, lo que voy buscando es un programa de mensajería que no
 me obligue a usar el móvil, sino que me permita usarlo desde mi Debian
 de forma cómoda (aunque el resto de contactos sí estén interaccionando
 desde su móvil).
 
 Alguna idea?

Wikipedia suele tener tablas comparativas interesantes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_clients

En mi radar tengo a Jitsi, que lo conocí en su fase inicial de desarrollo 
y me interesó por ser un cliente SIP multiplataforma (está escrito en 
Java) pero que también admite cuentas IM.

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread ciracusa


On 27/08/13 11:19, Javier Silva wrote:

Puede ser el driver de la tarjeta gráfica. ¿Qué tarjeta tienes y qué
driver usas?
 

Tal como dice Camaleon, también creo que efectivamente el problema es
la gráfica, ya que está utilizando el VESA, cuando debería usar el de
Intel. En la nueva estable Wheezy si utilizas un Intel con gráfica, se
muestra la siguiente salida:

[16.400] (II) intel: Driver for Intel Integrated Graphics Chipsets: i810,
 i810-dc100, i810e, i815, i830M, 845G, 854, 852GM/855GM, 865G, 915G,
 E7221 (i915), 915GM, 945G, 945GM, 945GME, Pineview GM, Pineview G,
 965G, G35, 965Q, 946GZ, 965GM, 965GME/GLE, G33, Q35, Q33, GM45,
 4 Series, G45/G43, Q45/Q43, G41, B43, B43, Clarkdale, Arrandale,
 Sandybridge Desktop (GT1), Sandybridge Desktop (GT2),
 Sandybridge Desktop (GT2+), Sandybridge Mobile (GT1),
 Sandybridge Mobile (GT2), Sandybridge Mobile (GT2+),
 Sandybridge Server, Ivybridge Mobile (GT1), Ivybridge Mobile (GT2),
 Ivybridge Desktop (GT1), Ivybridge Desktop (GT2), Ivybridge Server,
 Ivybridge Server (GT2)
   

Ok.

Has podido mirar el enlace de OpenVZ que te envié anteriormente?
   

SI Javier, estoy en eso!

No obstante, teniendo en cuenta que la PC la tengo instalada crees que 
sea posible lograr que use el driver nativo de intel?


Hasta ahora no me había tocado nunca tener que instalar a mano un 
driver de una tarjeta de video, por lo que estoy un poco perdido!


:(



---
Un saludo a todos/as.
Javier Silva


   

Gracias Javier!

Saludos.



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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread ciracusa


On 27/08/13 10:31, Camaleón wrote:


Estupendo, muchas gracias.

En ese registro que mandas veo algunas cosas curiosas (no está completo,
   
Exacto, es que me pareció muy largo postear todo. Si quieres te lo puedo 
pasar como adjunto a tu privado para no enviar adjuntos a la lista?

creo que faltan más datos al inicio de ese archivo) como por ejemplo que
te está cargando el driver VESA algo que no suele ser lo más apropiado.

Y parece que tienes una gráfica Intel:

***
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics Chipset 
Accelerated VGA BIOS
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 1.0
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: Intel Corporation
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics 
Controller
(II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: Hardware Version 0.0
***

Manda la salida del comando lspci | grep -i intel para que podamos ver
exactamente el chipset del adaptador. Lo raro es que teniendo una gráfica
intel te cargue el driver VESA, algo pasa por ahí...
   

$ lspci | grep -i intel
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge DRAM Controller (rev 09)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge 
Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Cougar Point HECI 
Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1a.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation Cougar Point USB Enhanced Host 
Controller #2 (rev 05)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Cougar Point High Definition 
Audio Controller (rev 05)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Cougar Point PCI Express Root Port 
1 (rev b5)
00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Cougar Point PCI Express Root Port 
5 (rev b5)

00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev b5)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation Cougar Point USB Enhanced Host 
Controller #1 (rev 05)

00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Cougar Point LPC Controller (rev 05)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation Cougar Point 6 port SATA AHCI 
Controller (rev 05)

00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation Cougar Point SMBus Controller (rev 05)
03:00.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 30)



   

intenta iniciar el sistema con el KMS desactivado a ver si notas alguna
mejoría.

Que es KMS?
 

Es el Kernel Mode Setting, un modo del kernel que permite gestionar de
manera más eficiente el entorno X y las consolas. Al desactivar el KMS se
tiene que cargar el driver VESA genérico (que es lo que te está pasando a
ti y te da problemas) por lo que entiendo que lo que tendrías que hacer es
lo contrario: intentar que te cargue el módulo intel para ver si así te
funciona correctamente el salto entre las tty y el entorno gráfico.

https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting
   

Ok, leere al respecto porque no tenía visto este tema!
   

Te estarás refiriendo a KDM?
 

No, KDM es el gestor de sesiones de KDE, es otra cosa :-)

Saludos,

   

Muchas Gracias!

Saludos.



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Re: OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:24:46 +0200, Jose L Triviño escribió:

 Gtalk?

Ojo con Gtalk que -si no lo ha hecho ya- va a dejar de usar XMPP/Jabber 
en breve ;-(

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:53:22 -0300, ciracusa escribió:

 On 27/08/13 10:31, Camaleón wrote:

 En ese registro que mandas veo algunas cosas curiosas (no está
 completo,

 Exacto, es que me pareció muy largo postear todo. Si quieres te lo puedo
 pasar como adjunto a tu privado para no enviar adjuntos a la lista?

De momento no hace falta.

(...)

 Manda la salida del comando lspci | grep -i intel para que podamos
 ver exactamente el chipset del adaptador. Lo raro es que teniendo una
 gráfica intel te cargue el driver VESA, algo pasa por ahí...

 $ lspci | grep -i intel 

(...)

 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge
 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)

Sandy me suena a chipset modernico ¿no? (ya he perdido la cuenta de cómo 
va Intel en el apartado gráfico). Si es así, es posible que el kernel y 
la versión de Xorg que uses no tenga soporte para ese adaptador. 

Si estás usando Squeeze quizá puedas instalar a un kernel superior a 
través del repositorio de los backports, pero si estás con wheezy el 
error debe de venir por otro lado.

Hum... espera, en el primer mensaje dices que tienes Debian 6, es decir, 
Squeeze, pues entonces sí, lo más probable es que tengas que usar un 
kernel (y/o una versión de xorg) actualizada.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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RE: Antena WiFi USB ¿compatible?

2013-08-27 Thread William Romero

Algunos compradores de ese modelo lo compraron y opinaron en Amazon , y la 
experiencia con linux .
http://www.amazon.es/product-reviews/B002SZEOLG


Atte.

William Romero C. 


 To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
 From: noela...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Antena WiFi USB ¿compatible?
 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:46:30 +
 
 El Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:09:22 -0300, Ariel Martin Bellio escribió:
 
  ¿Donde debo buscar si una antena USB WiFi es compatible con GNU/Linux?
 
 Pues debes fijarte en el chipset que usa el adaptador y luego comprobar 
 qué driver usa y si está soportado por la versión del kernel que vayas a 
 instalar:
 
 https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi
 
  http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-464967544-placa-de-red-wifi-tp-
 link-tl-wn722n-adaptador-usb-150mbps-n-_JM
  
  Esa es la que me interesa, pero solamente necesito que me contesten si 
  hay una base de datos con antenas compatibles disponible en la web...
 
 Bueno, la antena -por su condición de mera antena realizada con 
 materiales conductores- será compatible :-P, lo que te interesa es la 
 circuitería. Veamos lo que dice la hoja de especificaciones:
 
 http://www.tp-link.com/mx/products/details/?model=TL-WN722N#spec
 
 Pues no dice nada (para variar...), pero el driver para windows es un 
 athuw8 que quiere decir que usa el driver atheros, en principio 
 excelente para linux por lo que seguramente te funcione con el driver 
 ath9 o si es un chipset muy moderno quizá tengas que usar el driver 
 compat-wireless más actualziado.
 
 Saludos,
 
 -- 
 Camaleón
 
 
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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread ciracusa


Camaleon, gracias por tu respuesta!

Va entre tus líneas:

On 27/08/13 11:52, Camaleón wrote:


Sandy me suena a chipset modernico ¿no? (ya he perdido la cuenta de cómo
va Intel en el apartado gráfico). Si es así, es posible que el kernel y
la versión de Xorg que uses no tenga soporte para ese adaptador.
   

Si, la PC es bastante nueva.

Hum... espera, en el primer mensaje dices que tienes Debian 6, es decir,
Squeeze, pues entonces sí, lo más probable es que tengas que usar un
kernel (y/o una versión de xorg) actualizada.
   

Con respecto al kernel no puedo ya que estoy usando:

2.6.32-5-openvz-686 #1 SMP

Es la mas nueva dentro de Squeeze (osea la versión 6)

Ahora, con respecto a xorg, donde y como podría actualizarlo?

Te consulto, no sería mas factible buscar los drivers del chipset?

La verdad esto me supera ya que nunca me había tocado liar con Xorg y/o 
el driver de video y estoy un poco mareado!


:(

Muchas Gracias!



Saludos,

   



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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:06:13 -0300, ciracusa escribió:

 On 27/08/13 11:52, Camaleón wrote:

 Hum... espera, en el primer mensaje dices que tienes Debian 6, es
 decir, Squeeze, pues entonces sí, lo más probable es que tengas que
 usar un kernel (y/o una versión de xorg) actualizada.

 Con respecto al kernel no puedo ya que estoy usando:
 
 2.6.32-5-openvz-686 #1 SMP
 
 Es la mas nueva dentro de Squeeze (osea la versión 6)

Squeeze es ahora oldstable, la versión estable es Wheezy. Vale, pues 
seguramente el kernel que tienes aún no tenga soporte para ese chipset.

 Ahora, con respecto a xorg, donde y como podría actualizarlo?

Los paquetes del kernel y los de Xorg deben estar disponibles en el 
repositorio de backports, pero... huy, me temo que tienes un problema: no 
hay kernel openvz disponible en los backports ¿cómo es posible? :-/

 Te consulto, no sería mas factible buscar los drivers del chipset?

Es que me parece que necesitas dos cosas: a) una versión del kernel con 
soporte para el chipset intel y b) una versión de xorg con soporte para 
ese chipset. El servidor gráfico no creo que sea un problema porque 
tienes paquetes actualizados pero para el kernel que tú tienes no los veo.

 La verdad esto me supera ya que nunca me había tocado liar con Xorg y/o
 el driver de video y estoy un poco mareado!

Pues me temo que si quieres usar el driver de intel vas a tener que:

1/ Compilar e instalar un kernel manualmente con soporte para openvz y 
posiblemente instalar una versión actualizada de xorg desde los backports,

o

2/ Instalar directamente Debian Wheezy ;-(

A ver si a alguien se le ocurre alguna otra alternativa.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread Javier Silva

 Con respecto al kernel no puedo ya que estoy usando:

 2.6.32-5-openvz-686 #1 SMP


Mira esto otro que he encontrado en openvz.org y que tal vez te ayude
a tomar alguna decisión a los problemas que tienes con Squeeze, ya que
habla de Wheezy:

http://openvz.org/Installation_on_Debian

For Wheezy (7.0), use the vzctl package included in wheezy, together
with the Wheezy OpenVZ kernels from
http://download.openvz.org/debian/. Alternatively reduced
functionality may be possible using the stock Debian Wheezy kernel
(based on kernel.org version 3.2) and Vzctl_for_upstream_kernel.

Entiendo que todos los problemas que tienes en la actualidad con el
micro y la gráfica (ya que están dentro del mismo chip), se
solucionarían en el hipotético caso de que OpenVZ corriese en Wheezy,
cosa que parece hacer de manera limitada.

En el mismo wiki aparecen notas recomendando la instalación en RHEL6 e
incluso hay una nota que dice:

The best kernel to use is RHEL6-based. Please see
Install_kernel_from_RPM_on_Debian_6.0

El mismo kernel al que apunta el repositorio de la distribución wheezy
en sus servidores y que yo francamente no me atrevería a instalar.

Después de todo lo visto en el sitio de openvz, digo que si tanto
necesitas tener en funcionamiento OpenVZ, deberías hacer uso de las
recomendaciones que allí te hacen y cambiar el sistema base que parece
ser el problema o no iniciar el equipo en modo gráfico y utilizarlo
únicamente desde la consola.

Has probado a no iniciar el equipo sin el kdm/gdm/ldm y desde allí
iniciar el entorno gráfico?


---
Un saludo a todos/as.
Javier Silva


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Re: OT: Sustituto de Whatsapp con cliente para GNU/Linux

2013-08-27 Thread Pablo Jiménez

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 02:33:34PM +, Camaleón wrote:
 El Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:24:46 +0200, Jose L Triviño escribió:
 
  Gtalk?
 
 Ojo con Gtalk que -si no lo ha hecho ya- va a dejar de usar XMPP/Jabber 
 en breve ;-(

Aún está usando XMPP. Mi Bitlbee aún logra conectarse con los servidores 
de GTalk.

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Re: Sobre emuladores de Nintendo NES

2013-08-27 Thread Pablo Jiménez

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 08:13:24AM -0430, Miguel Matos wrote:
 El 26 de agosto de 2013 07:39, Gonzalo Rivero
 fishfromsa...@gmail.com escribió:
  El sáb, 24-08-2013 a las 23:16 -0430, Miguel Matos escribió:
  Saludos a la lista. Esta pregunta será algo exótica, pero igual quiero
  buscar una solución: quiero jugar al nintendo clásico (o NES), pero la
  aplicación FCEU no satisface mis necesidades, además de no saber cómo
  se configura. Quise instalar este paquete: fceux_2.1_i386.deb, pero al
  ejecutar el instalador de paquetes gdebi, me pinta este lindo error:
  No se puede satisfacer la dependencia: 
  libsdl1.2debian-alsa|libsdl1.2debian-all.
  Ya busqué por synaptic, pero no existen tales paquetes. Y yo me
  preguntó: ¿para qué el realizador del programa ofrece un paquete[1]
  que no da garantías que se instale? Y si éste no da resultados,
 
  ¿me
  proponen algún otro?
  apt-get install zsnes
 
  --
  (-.(-.(-.(-.(-.(-.-).-).-).-).-).-)
 
 Gracias por el esfuerzo, pero ya lo tengo instalado. También Visual
 Boy Advance y PCSX. Busco es uno para Nintendo clásico.

Aptitude debiera poder ayudarte:

$ aptitude search '~dNintendo | ~dFamicom'

No estoy usando stable, pero debieras tener un par de emuladores 
disponibles para NES/Famicom en la colección de paquetes, sin necesidad 
de recurrir a fuentes externas...

Saludos.

-- 
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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread Marcos Delgado

aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-intel


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Re: Problema al volver a las X desde la consola

2013-08-27 Thread José Maldonado

Ciracusa si piensas seguir usando Debian Squeeze para tener OpenVZ en
tu hardware, debes actualizar el kernel y la version del
xserver-xorg-video-intel, dirijite a squeeze-backport y elige un
kernel igual o superior a 2.6.39 de preferecia el actual kernel
estable 3.2 o 3.10 para usar sin problemas tu hardware.

2013/8/27 Marcos Delgado juanm...@gmail.com:
 aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-intel


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netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Vitor Hugo

Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?

Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Daniel Lenharo

Eu utilizo o Debian Wheezy +gnome no meu note e no meu net.

meu net é um acer v5.



2013/8/27 Vitor Hugo vitorhug...@hotmail.com

 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?

Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Rodrigo Torres Leme

Uso num netbook da philco com openbox tint2 conky e tilda. Sobe com 150mb
ou menos.  O problema maior é que a resolução não passa de 1024x600 e por
isso alguns botoes de menus bao consigo clicar. Fora isso ficou um foguete.
Em 27/08/2013 09:03, Daniel Lenharo dan...@sombra.eti.br escreveu:

 Eu utilizo o Debian Wheezy +gnome no meu note e no meu net.

 meu net é um acer v5.



 2013/8/27 Vitor Hugo vitorhug...@hotmail.com

 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?

Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Adiel de Lima Ribeiro

Utilizo o Debian 6 em um Itautec Infoway com hardware antigo, hd de
5400RPM. 
Mas recompilei o kernel e deixei o sistema com o gnome-core, ficou bala!


On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 08:55 -0300, Vitor Hugo wrote:
 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?
 

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Promoção Prorrogada - GANHE um KIT ARDUINO GRÁTIS

2013-08-27 Thread Cássio Agnaldo Onodera


A PROMOÇÃO FOI PRORROGADA !!!

Estamos lhe dando mais uma change para aproveitar a promoção: FAÇA UM CURSO DE 
ARDUINO EM DVD - E GANHE UM KIT GRÁTIS.

Você paga apenas R$219,00 no CURSO DE ARDUINO AUTOMAÇÃO E ROBÓTICA - E GANHA UM 
KIT COM ARDUINO e outros componentes GRÁTIS.

O pagamento pode ser feito pelo PAGSEGURO que lhe garante seu dinheiro de volta 
se não receber o produto e você ainda pode parcelar em até 18 vezes no cartão 
de crédito.

Para adquirir um de nossos cursos, entre no site abaixo e clique na guia 
Comprar.

http://www.arduinotec.com.br

ATENÇÃO: Ofertas válidas enquanto durarem os estoque da PLACA ARDUINO - 
APROVEITE - Ainda restam poucas unidades.

Visite o nosso site para conhecer mais sobre esta tecnologia ou reservar o seu 
curso:

http://www.arduinotec.com.br


Atenciosamente,

Prof. Cássio Agnaldo Onodera
Mestre pela Escola Politécnica da USP

=== PARA EXCLUIR SEU E-MAIL DE NOSSA LISTA, RESPONDA ESTE E-MAIL COM A PALAVRA 
REMOVER NO ASSUNTO (SUBJECT).
6104


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/bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off

2013-08-27 Thread Daniel Ferreira Bonfim

Pessoal, boa tarde.
Após suspender o sistema com o comando 'sudo pm-suspend', ao reinicia-lo é
exibido essa mensagem após a tela do GRUB:
*/bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off *
*(initramfs) *
*
*
Alguem pode me dar uma ajuda?

Re: /bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off

2013-08-27 Thread Zandre Bran

2013/8/27 Daniel Ferreira Bonfim daniel.f...@gmail.com:
 Pessoal, boa tarde.

Ôlas Daniel, Comunidade e Navegante futuro.

 Após suspender o sistema com o comando 'sudo pm-suspend', ao reinicia-lo é
 exibido essa mensagem após a tela do GRUB:
 /bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off
 (initramfs)

 Alguem pode me dar uma ajuda?

O comando era para somente suspender a máquina. Já tentou tira-la
da energia e liga-la novamente? Já tentou instalar somente o grub
novamente com algum livecd? Ou regera-lo?

# sudo grub-install /dev/sdX #onde X é a letra do disco, tipo sda

Mais sobre o GRUB em: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing

-- Abraços, Zandre.

:: http://acessibilidade.blog.br
:: http://zandrebran.blog.br
$ less  (head -n1 /etc/issue)


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Desinstalando extensões do GnomeShell

2013-08-27 Thread Márcio Vinícius Pinheiro

Caros,
tenho dois problemas aparentemente (porém não necessariamente) relacionados.

1- Instalei alguma extensão no Gnome shell que tem causado mal
funcionamento na shell: ao acessar a shell no hot-spot, tudo funciona
perfeitamente (busca, atalhos, os programas abrem, consigo trocar o
desktop, etc.) exceto pelo fato de que a shell não sai da tela
(impossibilitando de eu acessar de volta as janelas dos programas). Alguém
tem notícia de um problema semelhante? Estou usando o Sid. Pretendo
desinstalar todas as extensões e instalar uma a uma e testar pra achar a
vilã... é aí que entro no segundo problema.

2- Tanto pelo site https://extensions.gnome.org quanto pela janela de
opções consigo desativar as extensões, mas não consigo desinstalá-las (uma
ou outra consigo, a grande maioria não). Clico no X para desinstalar e nada
acontece. Isso é um problema conhecido? Há algum outro jeito de desinstalar
extensões do Gnome Shell?

- - - ·
Atenciosamente,

Márcio Vinícius Pinheiro
http://pt.gravatar.com/marciovinicius

Re: /bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off

2013-08-27 Thread Daniel Ferreira Bonfim

Eis a mensagem ao reinstalar o GRUB:

Impossível instalar o GRUB em /dev/sda
A execução de 'grub-install /dev/sda' falhou.

Este é um erro fatal.


Alguma sugestão?


Em 27 de agosto de 2013 13:14, Daniel Ferreira Bonfim daniel.f...@gmail.com
 escreveu:

 Olá Zandre. Obrigado, mas náo consigo reinstalar o GRUB. Ocorre um erro
 quando tento montar a partição / com o livecd. Ele simplesmente diz que não
 foi possível montar a partição.




 Em 27 de agosto de 2013 12:41, Zandre Bran zandreb...@ubuntu.comescreveu:

 2013/8/27 Daniel Ferreira Bonfim daniel.f...@gmail.com:
  Pessoal, boa tarde.

 Ôlas Daniel, Comunidade e Navegante futuro.

  Após suspender o sistema com o comando 'sudo pm-suspend', ao
 reinicia-lo é
  exibido essa mensagem após a tela do GRUB:
  /bin/sh: Can’t access tty; job control turned off
  (initramfs)
 
  Alguem pode me dar uma ajuda?

 O comando era para somente suspender a máquina. Já tentou tira-la
 da energia e liga-la novamente? Já tentou instalar somente o grub
 novamente com algum livecd? Ou regera-lo?

 # sudo grub-install /dev/sdX #onde X é a letra do disco, tipo sda

 Mais sobre o GRUB em:
 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing

 -- Abraços, Zandre.

 :: http://acessibilidade.blog.br
 :: http://zandrebran.blog.br
 $ less  (head -n1 /etc/issue)

Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread P. J.

uso num hp 1gb de ram processador atom n270. uso como  GUI awesome...
mas para vc recomendo o xfce... acho o gnome pesado para netbook...

2013/8/27 Adiel de Lima Ribeiro adiel.netad...@gmail.com:
 Utilizo o Debian 6 em um Itautec Infoway com hardware antigo, hd de
 5400RPM.
 Mas recompilei o kernel e deixei o sistema com o gnome-core, ficou bala!


 On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 08:55 -0300, Vitor Hugo wrote:
 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?


 --
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 Adiel de Lima Ribeiro
 facebook.com/sembr.dyndns.info



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Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Jack Jr


Tenho 3 particões no meu Netbook

1 - Debian 7.1 - Gnome
2 - Ubuntu 12.04.3 - Unity
3 - Ubuntu 13.10 - Unity


Jack Pogorelsky Junior
*Engº Mecânico (CREA-RS 136845)
*Tel: +55 (51) 8124-8132
Home Page: http://www.pogorelsky.net http://www.pogorelsky.net/
Blog: http://www.pogorelsky.net/blog
E-mail: pogorel...@pogorelsky.net mailto:pogorel...@pogorelsky.net


Em 27-08-2013 08:55, Vitor Hugo escreveu:

Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?



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Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Elias Praciano


XFCE, aqui e pretendendo um 'upgrade' pro LXDE. :)

Em 27-08-2013 14:16, P. J. escreveu:

uso num hp 1gb de ram processador atom n270. uso como  GUI awesome...
mas para vc recomendo o xfce... acho o gnome pesado para netbook...

2013/8/27 Adiel de Lima Ribeiro adiel.netad...@gmail.com:

Utilizo o Debian 6 em um Itautec Infoway com hardware antigo, hd de
5400RPM.
Mas recompilei o kernel e deixei o sistema com o gnome-core, ficou bala!


On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 08:55 -0300, Vitor Hugo wrote:

Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?


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Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread André Nunes Batista

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 09:55 -0300, Rodrigo Torres Leme wrote:
 Uso num netbook da philco com openbox tint2 conky e tilda. Sobe com
 150mb ou menos.  O problema maior é que a resolução não passa de
 1024x600 e por isso alguns botoes de menus bao consigo clicar. Fora
 isso ficou um foguete.
 

Asus eepc XFCE roda numa boa, mas a combinação acima é imbatível.

 Em 27/08/2013 09:03, Daniel Lenharo dan...@sombra.eti.br escreveu:
 Eu utilizo o Debian Wheezy +gnome no meu note e no meu net.
 
 
 meu net é um acer v5.
 
 
 
 
 
 2013/8/27 Vitor Hugo vitorhug...@hotmail.com 
 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface
 utilizam?
 
 
 


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Problemas com clientes Twitter

2013-08-27 Thread Mauricio S. T. Neto


Amigos boa noite.
Alguém mais esta com problemas para usar o Turpial ou Hotot no Wheezy?

Usava os dois e agora que troquei minha versão para wheezy não 
funcionam. fazendo algumas pesquisas encontrei alguns artigos informando 
que o Twitter modificou sua api de acesso e alguns clientes deixaram de 
funcionar. Isso procede?


Alguma sugestão sobre clientes para Debian/Gnome?

Abraço

--
Mauricio S.T. Neto


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Re: netbook

2013-08-27 Thread Thiago Henrique Ferreira Zoroastro

Estou usando Debian Wheezy com LOP (Lxde+Openbox+Pcmanfm) num netbook
Aspire One de 1.6 Ghz e 1GB RAM e está super estável.

 Alguem ai usa o debian no netbook? qual interface utilizam?



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Re: Postmaster and Abuse

2013-08-27 Thread Gregory Nowak

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:16:10AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 It's often considered bad form to put mail aliases such as these in
 /etc/aliases which is traditionally used to manipulate UNIX system
 account mail routing.  It's better to put them in /etc/postfix/virtual.

The docs in the postfix-doc package don't seem to mention this. In
/usr/share/doc/postfix-doc/html/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html it
says: You
should set up a
postmaster alias in the aliases(5) table that
   directs mail to a human person. The postmaster address is required
   to
   exist, so that people can report mail delivery problems. While
   you're
   updating the aliases(5) table, be sure to direct mail for the
   super-user to a human person too.

Greg


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Re: Postmaster and Abuse

2013-08-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner

On 8/27/2013 1:25 AM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:16:10AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 It's often considered bad form to put mail aliases such as these in
 /etc/aliases which is traditionally used to manipulate UNIX system
 account mail routing.  It's better to put them in /etc/postfix/virtual.
 
 The docs in the postfix-doc package don't seem to mention this. In
 /usr/share/doc/postfix-doc/html/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html it
 says: You
 should set up a
 postmaster alias in the aliases(5) table that
directs mail to a human person. The postmaster address is required
to
exist, so that people can report mail delivery problems. While
you're
updating the aliases(5) table, be sure to direct mail for the
super-user to a human person too.

I was speaking more to the abuse@ role account.  I should have made
that more clear.

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Re: Problems with nVidia proprietary driver

2013-08-27 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Monday 26 August 2013 23:24:45 Greg Madden wrote:
  (II) LoadModule: nvidia
  (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so
  (II) Module nvidia: vendor=NVIDIA Corporation
    compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0
    Module class: X.Org Video Driver
  (EE) NVIDIA: Failed to load the NVIDIA kernel module
  [snip] can't quite make it out accurately enough to copy.  Short
  message saying to look at the system's kernel log if you want to see
  more messages. (EE) NVIDIA (tangled up with above)
  (II) UnloadModule: nvidia
  (II) Unloading nvidia
  (EE) Failed to load module nvidia(module-specific error, 0)
  (EE) No drivers available.
  Fatal server error:
           no screens found
 
  I have downloaded the correct driver for my husband's card (GTX 650
  TI) 
 [snip] 
  But I would presumably need to unistall  
  whatever is there now first.
[snip]
  Ideas and suggestions please!  I don't want to reinstall and put up
  with nouveau if I can avoid it. :-(

 The proprietary Nvidia installer does a good job of configuring
 everything here, just works. It will write a new .xorg file and backup
 the old file, if present.

  Caveats, no Debian Nvidia stuff installed,

So how do I get rid of what I have just installed?

  blacklist the nouveau 

That seems to have been done successfully.

 driver, which Nvidia installer offers to do,  that is not a reference
 to a Linux kernel version.

Thank you for your reply.
Lisi


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On 8/27/13, Phi Debian phi.deb...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All,

I use debian and gnome since well the begining...
I have it on many nodes, but specially on some server, where many guests
run.
I was on squeeze sine the begining of squeeze, and decided to try wheezy.

Ubuntu is Debian snapshot, so much of muchness...

In both cases, GUI is choosable.

You install server with Unity/Gnome3 ?

For server, perhaps simpler XFCE4?

Or add custom repo and install Cinnamon or MATE desktops - there was a
big thread on just that here on debian-user in the last month I
think...

There are many lightweight window managers, simple and complex
toolbars - just mix and match for a lightweight server gui yes?

I went to Ubuntu first in 6.04, then 8.04, then never happy to upgrade
from there, so came back to Debian recently (last year), because of
Unity interface I don't like.

So now I use XFCE4. There are some dissatisfactory things these days.
Gnome2 just worked - and I could customize it in just the way I
wanted. But XFCE with some scripts and things here and there, and it's
acceptable. This is primary workstation.

For my various servers, I install _no_ gui. All remote admin.

If I had a physical server with eg VGA console, I would either just go
framebuffer and terminal, or *possibly* xfce. Really, server terminal
should be extremely temporary and brief affair - just enough to get
networking back up when you firetruck up, and get back to your primary
admin workstation. At least, that's how I do things... or would do
things if I had a server with a console :) I keep my server
networking as simple and/ or static as possible though .. to minimise
physical access requirements to server; common sense.

All the upgrade went smooth, and all worked like a charm, so thank you
for all the people who made this possible.

I can cope with the questionable gdm3 and all things around, but doing
GUI on the rudimentary VGA is not the main purpose of this server, yet
it worked, so no problem related with HW graphical board FW.

I start a vnc server for my account (vnc4server), and do the setup of
xstart the various way, the simplest being starting the gnome-session
in there.

Then right click on top-panel--property, color setup plain solid, and
kaboom, your vnc session is no longer available , oh no message
anybody knows by now, goolge it and it give massive useless solutions.

Since you are talking server, and VNC, then have you disabled 3D,
disabled effects etc? I don't know, I don't run GUI on servers, but if
I did, that would be first thing I would do, if I for some strange
reason ended up with a modern desktop on my server :)

I tried all sort of trick givin on the net, rm user account redo (that
works I can re start a vnc server and connect) yet still panel setup
crash, I tried all sort of things with dbus, socket, install tons of
useless packages.

Did you try different vnc servers? eg tightvncserver? x11vnc?
Did you try different vnc clients? there are a few.

Well, desesperate and after loosing a full day on it, I tried ubuntu,
and it cure. It come with its load of problems too, unity and all that
jazz, but all is workable around in a hour, going back to gnome
classic is doable.

So I think it is an adieu for debian It is miserable

I agree - it would be _very_ miserable day to have to leave Debian.
When I came back last year, it was like coming home to parents for
Christmas after many years away... too many years away..

Well may be this is just the end of an era, may be only .com can
produce valid OS and .org is fading, sad day.

Just a bug from sound of it. Probably fixed in a week. If high
importance/ money value servers, then perhaps you could find a
Debian-support contract company?

I still have another server to setup, I'll monitor the activity here

You do have test deployment-equivalent server don't you? Or some test
environment for testing your upgrades?

Anyway Phi, good luck
Zenaan

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Re: Building initrd for install Wheezy on pc without PAE

2013-08-27 Thread antispammbox-debian




Ok, many thanks.

Regards


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Re: Debian live build

2013-08-27 Thread antispammbox-debian



Ok, many thanks.

Regards


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 18:07 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 For server, perhaps simpler XFCE4?

Xfce or LXDE are a good idea.

 Or add custom repo and install Cinnamon or MATE desktops

Have you ever tested Cinnamon and MATE? Nobody should consider that one
of them can be called a quasi continued GNOME2, or that they are usable
for a stable production environment. I'm a Xfce user and installed both
for testing purpose.

 I went to Ubuntu first in 6.04, then 8.04, then never happy to upgrade
 from there, so came back to Debian recently (last year), because of
 Unity interface I don't like.

There are Ubuntu teams such as the Xubuntu team. Xfce users better go
with Xubuntu or Ubuntu Studio.

 So now I use XFCE4. There are some dissatisfactory things these days.
 Gnome2 just worked - and I could customize it in just the way I
 wanted. But XFCE with some scripts and things here and there, and it's
 acceptable. This is primary workstation.

I agree and Xfce4 is much closer to GNOME2 than Cinnamon and Mate are.

 I agree - it would be _very_ miserable day to have to leave Debian.
 When I came back last year, it was like coming home to parents for
 Christmas after many years away... too many years away..

In my experiences versatility is the best thing, IOW don't consider a
distro to be your golden calve, use the distro that fit best to your
needs. Once you're used too different package managements etc. it's easy
to switch the distro whenever needed. I always have different distros
installed. At the moment Arch Linux fit best to my needs and can be most
easiest configured to my needs. If this should change I even don't need
to install another Linux, they're already installed and at least two
different distros are maintained on my machine.

2 Cents,
Ralf


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread Phi Debian

Hi Zeenan,

Yes I did this move an the 'less used' server, not really crash'n'burn
but still ok to try yhr move there first.

Yes I used gnome-classic-2D

I used minimalist gnome setup, only 1 main-panel on the right, no
workspace, no other pannel

I have a permenant vnc session on the server (trusted network) and I
do most of the tiny things with GUI, else cui for stuff like NW,
iscsi, etc...

Yes I choose ubuntu as the less disorientating choice after many many
years on debian, next chice would have been mint, etc...

I don't go xfce because again I have very litle time to customize
thing, and learning how to script XFCE is out of my time bufget though
I exploded it with vnc on debian :)

What I liked with old gnome, was the custom can be done without
learning anything, drag drop panels, click on color that suite you,
focus follow mouse was trivial, etc

Well I learn a bit about gconf editor and I am about done on ubuntu...

So I wait a bit see if I can stay on debian (my prefered choice for
historical reasons)

Thanx for your help.
Cheers,
Phi



On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote:
 On 8/27/13, Phi Debian phi.deb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 I use debian and gnome since well the begining...
 I have it on many nodes, but specially on some server, where many guests
 run.
 I was on squeeze sine the begining of squeeze, and decided to try wheezy.


 Ubuntu is Debian snapshot, so much of muchness...

 In both cases, GUI is choosable.

 You install server with Unity/Gnome3 ?

 For server, perhaps simpler XFCE4?

 Or add custom repo and install Cinnamon or MATE desktops - there was a
 big thread on just that here on debian-user in the last month I
 think...

 There are many lightweight window managers, simple and complex
 toolbars - just mix and match for a lightweight server gui yes?

 I went to Ubuntu first in 6.04, then 8.04, then never happy to upgrade
 from there, so came back to Debian recently (last year), because of
 Unity interface I don't like.

 So now I use XFCE4. There are some dissatisfactory things these days.
 Gnome2 just worked - and I could customize it in just the way I
 wanted. But XFCE with some scripts and things here and there, and it's
 acceptable. This is primary workstation.

 For my various servers, I install _no_ gui. All remote admin.

 If I had a physical server with eg VGA console, I would either just go
 framebuffer and terminal, or *possibly* xfce. Really, server terminal
 should be extremely temporary and brief affair - just enough to get
 networking back up when you firetruck up, and get back to your primary
 admin workstation. At least, that's how I do things... or would do
 things if I had a server with a console :)   I keep my server
 networking as simple and/ or static as possible though .. to minimise
 physical access requirements to server; common sense.

 All the upgrade went smooth, and all worked like a charm, so thank you
 for all the people who made this possible.

 I can cope with the questionable gdm3 and all things around, but doing
 GUI on the rudimentary VGA is not the main purpose of this server, yet
 it worked, so no problem related with HW graphical board FW.

 I start a vnc server for my account (vnc4server), and do the setup of
 xstart the various way, the simplest being starting the gnome-session
 in there.

 Then right click on top-panel--property, color setup plain solid, and
 kaboom, your vnc session is no longer available , oh no message
 anybody knows by now, goolge it and it give massive useless solutions.

 Since you are talking server, and VNC, then have you disabled 3D,
 disabled effects etc? I don't know, I don't run GUI on servers, but if
 I did, that would be first thing I would do, if I for some strange
 reason ended up with a modern desktop on my server :)

 I tried all sort of trick givin on the net, rm user account redo (that
 works I can re start a vnc server and connect) yet still panel setup
 crash, I tried all sort of things with dbus, socket, install tons of
 useless packages.

 Did you try different vnc servers? eg tightvncserver? x11vnc?
 Did you try different vnc clients? there are a few.

 Well, desesperate and after loosing a full day on it, I tried ubuntu,
 and it cure. It come with its load of problems too, unity and all that
 jazz, but all is workable around in a hour, going back to gnome
 classic is doable.

 So I think it is an adieu for debian It is miserable

 I agree - it would be _very_ miserable day to have to leave Debian.
 When I came back last year, it was like coming home to parents for
 Christmas after many years away... too many years away..

 Well may be this is just the end of an era, may be only .com can
 produce valid OS and .org is fading, sad day.

 Just a bug from sound of it. Probably fixed in a week. If high
 importance/ money value servers, then perhaps you could find a
 Debian-support contract company?

 I still have another server to setup, I'll monitor

Re: HDMI output

2013-08-27 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Sb, 10 aug 13, 23:57:50, Seth Bauer wrote:
 
 Dear Andrei,
 
Hi... I'm also having a similar problem.  I'm using wheezy/kde 4 also on
 a HP dv6 laptop.  When plugged into my TV via HDMI, the computer recognizes
 it as a monitor but there is no video on the TV.  Where should I send my
 /var/log/Xorg.0.log file?  It's way to long to post.

It should be fine as attachment.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 10:40 +0200, Phi Debian wrote:
 What I liked with old gnome, was the custom can be done without
 learning anything, drag drop panels, click on color that suite you,
 focus follow mouse was trivial, etc

If it was only this, than you'll be more satisfied with using Xfce4,
than with the original GNOME2. Xfce4 is missing some GNOME2 stuff, but
what you want here does Xfce4 much better than GNOME2 did. Note, I still
have a Linux with GNOME2 installed and can compare it with Xfce4. There
is no learning curve for you when you want to set up fonts for GTK and
QT apps, Xfce does this better, to chose colors etc. can be done much
easier using Xfce4. Xfce4 suffers from other things, e.g. the editor,
the file manager, no MUA, but you can use gedit, nemo, evolution with
Xfce4 ;). No dconf, gconf etc. is needed. Scripts aren't needed for what
you want to get.



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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread Mihamina Rakotomandimby


On 2013-08-27 11:07, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

Hi All,

I use debian and gnome since well the begining...
I have it on many nodes, but specially on some server, where many guests
run.
I was on squeeze sine the begining of squeeze, and decided to try wheezy.

Ubuntu is Debian snapshot, so much of muchness...



I think it's less and less the case:
http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/2038243/ubuntu-developing-its-own-package-format-installer

--
RMA.

Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.



On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 11:56 +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
 http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/2038243/ubuntu-developing-its-own-package-format-installer

Wow, thank you for the link. Than Ubuntu in the future will cause much
more issues, when you talk to upstream, than they already do by their
disgusting policy to split packages nowadays. Reminds me to the running
gag with the very often broken libjackd link in the past years.


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 11:05 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 
 On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 11:56 +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
  http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/2038243/ubuntu-developing-its-own-package-format-installer
 
 Wow, thank you for the link. Than Ubuntu in the future will cause much
 more issues, when you talk to upstream, than they already do by their
    Ubuntu and Debian
 disgusting policy to split packages nowadays. Reminds me to the running
 gag with the very often broken libjackd link in the past years.



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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 18:07 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
For server, perhaps simpler XFCE4?

Xfce or LXDE are a good idea.

Or add custom repo and install Cinnamon or MATE desktops

Have you ever tested Cinnamon and MATE?

No. Wanted to.

Nobody should consider that one
of them can be called a quasi continued GNOME2,

Ralph, surely you should know better!

Goodness me, you *should* think before you type.

Nobody should consider that such simple replies can be called
reasonable continuation of my comment.

or that they are usable
for a stable production environment. I'm a Xfce user and installed both
for testing purpose.

Your feedback regarding your testing of stability of Cinnamon, and
MATE, may be useful.

I went to Ubuntu first in 6.04, then 8.04, then never happy to upgrade
from there, so came back to Debian recently (last year), because of
Unity interface I don't like.

There are Ubuntu teams such as the Xubuntu team.

I am aware.

Ralph, are you suggesting to me that Xubuntu is better than Debian+XFCE ?

Xfce users better go
with Xubuntu or Ubuntu Studio.

Arch linux users who promote Ubuntu *over* Debian better go to another list!

I am XFCE user. I better stay with Debian.

Your comment is meaningless.

Perhaps you should add some other sentence for others to make sense of
what you say?

At the moment, your direct response to my comment is strange, to say the least!

Ralph, are you a compulsive relationship communications boundary tester?

I agree and Xfce4 is much closer to GNOME2 than Cinnamon and Mate are.

Ok.

I agree - it would be _very_ miserable day to have to leave Debian.
When I came back last year, it was like coming home to parents for
Christmas after many years away... too many years away..

In my experiences versatility is the best thing, IOW don't consider a
distro to be your golden calve, use the distro that fit best to your
needs. Once you're used too different package managements etc. it's easy
to switch the distro whenever needed. I always have different distros
installed. At the moment Arch Linux fit best to my needs and can be most
easiest configured to my needs. If this should change I even don't need
to install another Linux, they're already installed and at least two
different distros are maintained on my machine.

My need is time. I had multiple Ubuntu and Debian installs for a while
last year, but management and maintaining common customizations was
too much overhead. I've also tried CentOS and Slackware. In my opinion
best thing is Debian stable and Debian unstable installs, depending on
need. This minimizes the time I spend learning minutiae between
distros - real waste of time. Greater efficiency in one OS (at least,
for Debian) = greater productivity of my time. This is best.

:)
Zenaan

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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On 8/27/13, Phi Debian phi.deb...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Zeenan,

Hi Phi,

*please*, reply only to the list. I do not need multiple copies of your email.

I have a permenant vnc session

I don't really know what you mean by permenant vnc session.

on the server (trusted network) and I
do most of the tiny things with GUI, else cui for stuff like NW,
iscsi, etc...

Yes I choose ubuntu as the less disorientating choice after many many
years on debian, next chice would have been mint, etc...

OK. You might find that working to solve the bug in Debian is less
disorienting ... if this your first real bug in Debian, for so many
years, you are doing very well, better than me.

I don't go xfce because again I have very litle time to customize
thing, and learning how to script XFCE is out of my time bufget though
I exploded it with vnc on debian :)

I did not mean you must customize XFCE.

I mean try XFCE, it might work ok, for server (I use for desktop).

Also I mean if XFCE is not perfect for you, a little bit of
customization (like change color of task bar) might be easy, might
just work for you.

Also I mean scripting should not be necessary, may be not needed at
all for server. Only you can try it on your environment and see if it
works, just same as trying Ubuntu - no different, but I think much
less differences long term than Ubuntu. Ubuntu makes more and more
changes, probably more pain for you :(

What I liked with old gnome, was the custom can be done without
learning anything, drag drop panels, click on color that suite you,
focus follow mouse was trivial, etc

I agree. We learn it. It worked. Then they decide something _new_ and
_shiny_ and _paradigm-changing_ must be better. Sad.

Well I learn a bit about gconf editor and I am about done on ubuntu...

OK. So if it works for you, use it. May be after some months it will
still be just fine. If not, come back to Debian, or something else.

So I wait a bit see if I can stay on debian (my prefered choice for
historical reasons)

Sounds like you are on Ubuntu now.

May be Wayland and Weston will save the day for us XP-era GNOME2 junkies
http://lwn.net/Articles/559647/
:)

Good luck,
Zenaan

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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

I only want to point out that that there isn't such as the good, the bad
and the ugly distro. No distro of the known distros with a huge user
base is better or worse than another distro. I can mention advantages
and drawbacks for most of them, IOW for all of them I used/I'm using.

When I read on a Debian list, that Debian is the best, or on an Ubuntu
list that Ubuntu is the best or on an Arch list, that Arch is the best
or ..., than I only read, the distro is a religion or an attitude to
life, but distros aren't that. There's no need to glom on to a distro,
this likely does cause more work, than to switch distros.

Regarding to Cinnamon and Mate, they are often mentioned when users
experience issues with GNOME3 when they switched from GNOME2 and you did
it in the same context, that's why I only wanted to point out, that my
impression is, that people should be careful to use those desktops on
production environments, especially when installed from a third party
repository.

YMMV!


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread Phi Debian

I am not religious about distros, I said I got many guest running on
the server, this is precisly to have a whole sort of distro running.

Yet the server got to have one, and for historical reasons it happen
it is debian.

Now this gnome3 comes to the dance, and break the tiny bits of basic
thing I need on the server side. I did try xfce once and was not too
excited about the friendlyness of the config.

I used to have any kind of bugs before, that I could most of the time
work around, but this time I think people are getting away because it
soulds like a long standing bug, with no solution at debian while
solved at ubuntu. This could be acceptable for a little while, but
today it sounds like it show some weaknesses developping

No big deal, as you said Ralf, the agile survive :), let's hop to the
next one :)

Yet I know that many valuable people have really given a lot to
debian, and it is sad that a simple sub-sytem can kill it.

Cheers,
Phi

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Ralf Mardorf
ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
I only want to point out that that there isn't such as the good, the bad
and the ugly distro. No distro of the known distros with a huge user
base is better or worse than another distro. I can mention advantages
and drawbacks for most of them, IOW for all of them I used/I'm using.

When I read on a Debian list, that Debian is the best, or on an Ubuntu
list that Ubuntu is the best or on an Arch list, that Arch is the best
or ..., than I only read, the distro is a religion or an attitude to
life, but distros aren't that. There's no need to glom on to a distro,
this likely does cause more work, than to switch distros.

Regarding to Cinnamon and Mate, they are often mentioned when users
experience issues with GNOME3 when they switched from GNOME2 and you did
it in the same context, that's why I only wanted to point out, that my
impression is, that people should be careful to use those desktops on
production environments, especially when installed from a third party
repository.

YMMV!

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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

:)

Hi Ralph, hope you are well.

Your general, non-direct reply to my questions to you, is by default
consent to my implied positions.

I _am_ still interested to know if you consider yourself to be a
compulsive relationship-communication boundary tester?

I defend your right to free speech. Some of your speech invites questions.

Also I shall respond to some of your comments below:

On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 I only want to point out that that there isn't such as the good, the bad
 and the ugly distro. No distro of the known distros with a huge user
 base is better or worse than another distro.

Bollocks!

Discrimination is good.
It is healthy!
It is essential!
Viva la discrimination!
If you don't stand for something, you fall for anything!
Do you want luke warm politically correct blurps?

Fedora/RedHat has strict libre adherence for since forever. Debian has
social contract forever.

These advantages are definitive!

These distributions are therefore superior! They are definitively better!

We who are involved, are involving ourselves in visions and intentions
which visions and which intentions are beyond mere utility (take THAT,
Linus!)!!

Debian has 40,000 software packages, more than any other, and makes
Debian definitively better than other distros. So even on utility
metric, Debian is better!

Debian runs on 12 architectures. Definitively better!

 I can mention advantages
 and drawbacks for most of them, IOW for all of them I used/I'm using.

Pick your metric Ralph!

You are taking a fence-sitting politically correct luke warm position.
By you saying what you are saying, you are saying every distribution
is nearly as good as other distributions.

This implied conclusion from your words Ralph, is NOT TRUE!

You are choosing a limited set of metrics for better, and you are
failing to disclose your chosen metrics!

And then, if you pretend to be the consummate philosopher you will
probably begin to argue that any metrics are as good as any other ...
or that one preferred metric is as good as many other!

Just because you have time to spend time learning (mastering any?)
multiple GNU/Linux distributions does not mean other people are in
same situation.

Just because you fail to place an absolute scalar better value to
one end of a chosen metrics over the other end of that metric,
and/ or just because you fail to place a scalar better value of one
metric over another metric,
does not mean your position is valid!
Politically correct yes, but valid no, useful no, divisive possibly,
and indiscriminate certainly!

Someone who uses Gentoo or Arch, may have to spend time
custom-compiling some software that is not there. This takes time.

So pre-packaged software of Debian, makes Debian definitively better
than those other distros which do not have the software I need! Debian
saves me a lot of time, and this makes Debian definitively better for
me, on the metric of my personal time consumption, convenience metric,
flexibility of software choice metric, libre metric, community size
metric, founded on social conscience metric!

Ralph, it is ok to be universally agnostic...
But that is not optimal for some people's needs!! Like me for example.
And that is perhaps a luke-warm existence .. you can keep it.

On the surface, some of your comments appear to me broad-minded,
but I see underneath that you fail to speak of the truth of other
individual real living people, like me, and so you appear to me to be
in fact, narrow-minded.

It clearly looks to me like you are projecting your own personal
best concepts and likes onto everybody.

Discrimination is good!
It is personal!
It carries intent!
In fact, my discriminating, is my living of deep intents within me!

Ralph, right now, I am spending some of my time to engage with you in
this conversation.
Your communication/actions evidence underlying, perhaps unseen by you, intents.
The consequence of your actions, is evidence of those intents
(subconscious or conscious) manifested.

(For example, the engagement of another in communication, is some evidence...)

 When I read on a Debian list, that Debian is the best, or on an Ubuntu
 list that Ubuntu is the best or on an Arch list, that Arch is the best
 or ..., than I only read, the distro is a religion or an attitude to
 life, but distros aren't that.

No, but people are living!

People (some of them) have attitude in life! Is it wonderful?

For some technology, a distribution like Debian to unite people in a
social contract, is this not astounding? Is this not an amazing use
for technology, to turn people's minds to something higher than mere
atoms and bits?

Is this not worthy of celebration? a party of living! We can do more
with Debian, yes, but there is a message, we can _be_ more! Can you
believe that people believe this?

This is good.

This is excellent.

I, Zenaan, align with the Debian Manifesto.

I, Zenaan, align with RedHat and Fedora's staunch stance for liberty
in

mouse wheel spurious events (too sensitive) with evdev

2013-08-27 Thread Vincent Lefevre

The wheel of my new mouse is very sensitive: when I click on it
(middle button), it also often generates a scroll event (button
4 or 5). This is also sometimes the case when I'm just touching
the wheel. How can I prevent these events from occurring?

For instance, the driver could start generating a button 4/5
event only when the wheel has been scrolled by a minimum amount
(or ignore the first button 4/5 event of a sequence).

Note: I want a solution at the system (driver) level, not at the
application level, because all applications are obviously affected.

I didn't find anything about that in the evdev(4) man page (the
idea is something like EmulateWheelInertia, but this one is for
wheel emulation).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre vinc...@vinc17.net - Web: http://www.vinc17.net/
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.net/blog/
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

Zenaan, if everybody would use Debian for development, than even the
Debian community would have to suffer from slower progress. To develop,
to report bugs to upstream etc. you often need an Linux userspace
environment that is up-to-date, but even experimental isn't up-to-date.
The policy that Debian isn't up-to-date, isn't in unison with upstream,
has got advantages, but it not seldom is a serious drawback for
developing, for continuing the evolution of Linux. There are hundreds of
Linux distros with social and libre policies, this isn't exclusive
for the distros you mentioned. Some people consider to get less binary
packages, that use current stable releases from upstream instead of more
binary packages that provide completely outdated packages, other users
don't care about this. So when I mention something you call politically
correct but without concentrated passion, you're mistaken. There's much
concentrated passion in what I mentioned. Different distros and even
different flavours of Ubuntu have different targets. For me something
very important is the KISS principle, again, Debian is a good distro
too, but IMO far away from KISS.

You're free to consider the distros you mentioned as the best distros,
but by doing this you miss a basic approach of FLOSS. There isn't such
as a commercial competition, or radical political model.


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

PS: Since you have that much issues with compiling software, consider
that some distros e.g. have a huge userbase, because not less users need
the current stable kernel release, with the current stable modules for
new hardware. Is the huge userbase from distros you consider as less
good, a community of idiots? There are so many reasons for having
different distros and why those distros have got a huge userbase. Some
of those distros are much older than Debian is.


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 You're free to consider the distros you mentioned as the best distros,
 but by doing this you miss a basic approach of FLOSS. There isn't such
 as a commercial competition, or radical political model.

What you say does not make sense.

You are free to ignore most (or all) of what I say, and to make
assumptions about things I have supposedly considered or said.

Free to do so, but not useful...


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 21:16 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
  You're free to consider the distros you mentioned as the best distros,
  but by doing this you miss a basic approach of FLOSS. There isn't such
  as a commercial competition, or radical political model.
 
 What you say does not make sense.
 
 You are free to ignore most (or all) of what I say, and to make
 assumptions about things I have supposedly considered or said.
 
 Free to do so, but not useful...

What branch of Debian do you recommend to contribute in development of
important Linux userspace projects?

I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency hell
or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and developers
need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes newer releases
than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't provide a stable branch
that is up-to-date, in sync with stable releases from upstream, even the
unstable branches of Debian don't provide this.

Wouldn't you call this a drawback for the evolution of Linux, while it
has less, if any advantages to go this way?



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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread berenger . morel




Le 27.08.2013 13:12, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :

Some of those distros are much older than Debian is.


Well, sorry to go inside your discussion ( which is more fun than 
anything else, for me ), but that point surprised me. I am not a linux 
distro expert, and only really used Debian ( tried Ubuntu, backtrack, 
archlinux and gentoo... only few hours, because I did not liked the 2 
first's packaging political - and gnome, which is the default for them - 
, for arch it was just broken even before a usable installation - xorg 
had broken dependency... arch was installed, but not *usable* for me. - 
and I never successfully compiled a gentoo system which just work when 
you start the computer... so, really fast tries, and only for gentoo I 
intend to try distro anew, to give it another chance. ) but IIRC, from 
stuff I had read here and there, the only older distro is slackware, am 
I wrong?


I do not mean that age is a criteria of quality ( this would mean our 
100 aged grandmothers are smarter and stronger than anyone else... I 
sincerely doubt it ;) ) but just wanted to know which other distro is so 
old.



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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 13:30 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
 
 Le 27.08.2013 13:12, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
  Some of those distros are much older than Debian is.
 
 Well, sorry to go inside your discussion ( which is more fun than 
 anything else, for me ), but that point surprised me. I am not a linux 
 distro expert, and only really used Debian ( tried Ubuntu, backtrack, 
 archlinux and gentoo... only few hours, because I did not liked the 2 
 first's packaging political - and gnome, which is the default for them - 
 , for arch it was just broken even before a usable installation - xorg 
 had broken dependency... arch was installed, but not *usable* for me. - 
 and I never successfully compiled a gentoo system which just work when 
 you start the computer... so, really fast tries, and only for gentoo I 
 intend to try distro anew, to give it another chance. ) but IIRC, from 
 stuff I had read here and there, the only older distro is slackware, am 
 I wrong?
 
 I do not mean that age is a criteria of quality ( this would mean our 
 100 aged grandmothers are smarter and stronger than anyone else... I 
 sincerely doubt it ;) ) but just wanted to know which other distro is so 
 old.

Yes it's fun for me too.



In mid-1992, Peter MacDonald founded SLS, which offered the first
distribution to contain elements such as X and TCP/IP.[citation needed]
The company was sending a set of 40 floppy disks containing Slackware to
people who wanted to get Linux.
Slackware (maintained by Patrick Volkerding) was initially based largely
on SLS, and the SUSE Linux distribution was originally a German
translation of Slackware. In 1994 Patrick Volkerding's scripts were
translated, accompanying the original S.u.S.E Linux 1.0 distribution,
which was a German version of Slackware, developed in close
collaboration with Volkerding. The floppies turned into CDs. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux_distributions#History

The Debian Project grew slowly at first and released the first 0.9x
versions in 1994 and 1995. During this time it was sponsored by the Free
Software Foundation's GNU Project.[118] The first ports to other,
non-i386 architectures began in 1995, and the first 1.x version of
Debian was released in 1996. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#1993.E2.80.931998

Slackware and Suse came before Debian. Ok, you can consider a
translation as the same distro, but IMO it already was important work
to make Linux available for a huger userbase. You can consider those few
years as being not much earlier, but IMO even a few month are important
regarding to computer evolution. I'm not pro version hunting, but for
development at least current stable releases from upstream should be
available. Debian doesn't provide this. This doesn't make Debian less
good, but it makes it less good for development of some important Linux
userspace software.

The OP has got an issue with GNOME, go and report this issue to upstream
and they will reply that bugs are likely fixed for up-to-date stable
releases of GNOME. So regarding to this thread the things I mentioned
aren't just for fun, just the discussion is ridiculous, since the OP
already had proven that Debian has got an disadvantage.


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread Curt

On 2013-08-27, Zenaan Harkness z...@freedbms.net wrote:

 Your general, non-direct reply to my questions to you, is by default
 consent to my implied positions.

I can't parse that.

 I _am_ still interested to know if you consider yourself to be a
 compulsive relationship-communication boundary tester?

I think he considers that one size does not fit all.

What a traitor (or not)!


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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

2013-08-27 Thread berenger . morel


Le 27.08.2013 13:29, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 21:16 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 You're free to consider the distros you mentioned as the best 
distros,
 but by doing this you miss a basic approach of FLOSS. There isn't 
such

 as a commercial competition, or radical political model.

What you say does not make sense.

You are free to ignore most (or all) of what I say, and to make
assumptions about things I have supposedly considered or said.

Free to do so, but not useful...


What branch of Debian do you recommend to contribute in development 
of

important Linux userspace projects?

I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency 
hell
or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and 
developers
need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes newer 
releases
than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't provide a stable 
branch
that is up-to-date, in sync with stable releases from upstream, even 
the

unstable branches of Debian don't provide this.

Wouldn't you call this a drawback for the evolution of Linux, while 
it

has less, if any advantages to go this way?


Is there is any distro with binaries from trunk/master ( depending on 
if you prefer svn or git ;) ) up to date? It would be quite strange, but 
sounds nice.


I think that source distros can have such a system, but they are really 
hard to install, and for all other distros, I think users... coders, 
just sync with the repo of the libs they need, if they need the latest 
development package, and then compile the stuff themselves. On Debian, 
you have no real choice, since some libs ( sfml or wxwidgets for example 
) does not have the latest version in binaries... In facts, I only had, 
for now, to use source repositories for something like 3 libs: 
wxwidgets, for the unstable versions ( 2.9.x ), libbullet, because it is 
not in Debian's repos ( IIRC ), and pluma-framework, for same reason.


On those libs, wxwidgets 2.9.x is not stable, so I would avoid to use 
it to create stuff for production environments. It's API may change 
tomorrow, and imply lot of work to adapt (it is not probable, but it is 
possible). Other 2 libs just lacks from the Debian's repo, but since 
Debian have a very huge package collection, is not it more likely for me 
to find my libs in Debian than in other distros with smaller package 
collection?


And for SFML... I'm using 1.6 for now. I should use 2.0 or 2.1, but... 
I just do not like it's design and API*.
Also, exceptions are almost not used, which imply that I have to 
encapsulate the calls to the lib anyway, so switching version of even 
library will be easy: I'll just need to rewrite implementation of my 
low level classes, which is really fast to do.
So, for the young SFML lib, not having the last version is not so 
problematic for me, but, yes, Debian does not have the last stable 
version of that particular library.


Finally, usually, libraries have some compatibility between versions, 
the more recent will support all features and API of older ones. Except 
for major releases, or for bad libraries that you should maybe think 
twice before using them. It means that it's better to work with older 
libs, if you do not require more recent features, to target more 
systems. As often when you try to write portable stuff, you can not use 
all bleeding edges of all targets.


To conclude, I think that Debian is excellent for programming, because 
of the ton of packages it have, and because when the coders needs the 
latest version of a lib, they are usually good enough with computers to 
clone/compile it ( but I admit that I am often very lazy too, so I try 
to avoid doing that. This is one of the reasons I no longer use windows 
for my desktop: on Debian, no need to compile and install stuff myself. 
Almost never.) .



*:
SDL is, imho, better on that, even if I am a C++ programmer which 
really love OOP and exceptions...
I feel like SFML uses OOP to hide stuff which may be useful for real 
programming. A problem ( not fixed in more recent versions AFAIK ) I 
recently had which is a nice example, is that I had a network error, and 
the lib only gave me the indication that there were an error. Yeah. 
Nice. There is an error, but you have no way to know which one... fun. 
Or not.
Luckily, C gives perror to print the real error on screen, but hey, why 
does the SFML lacks function to say what went wrong? SDL is better, it 
have such facility, with SDL_GetError(). Of course, it does not handle 
network, but the nice point of libs which only handle one thing is that 
they can focus and often handle it better. I hate frameworks ( yes, it 
means that I hate Qt, too.), really. I prefer UNIX philosophy: one tool 
for one thing, and combine tools to have a framework which only does 
what you really needs.



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Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.

On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
 On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 21:16 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 On 8/27/13, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:
  You're free to consider the distros you mentioned as the best distros,
  but by doing this you miss a basic approach of FLOSS. There isn't such
  as a commercial competition, or radical political model.

 What you say does not make sense.

 You are free to ignore most (or all) of what I say, and to make
 assumptions about things I have supposedly considered or said.

 Free to do so, but not useful...

 What branch of Debian do you recommend to contribute in development of
 important Linux userspace projects?

Ralph, you are quite disrespectful.

I ask you genuine question, speak from my heart on matters. You ignore
nearly everything I say and say something mostly unrelated. More than
that, you ask a question whilst waving a hand to sweep aside my
questions to you.

Before, I asked you a question I am interested in hearing your answer.

You completely ignored my question, and speak to my considerations and
made assumptions which are unfounded.

Again, same thing.

Finally (above), I point out to you that something you said (as again
before), is just not making sense.

You made no effort to explain (read again, your second sentence at
top, and see for you it is maybe an ambiguity, but for me, I actually
could not understand what you tried to say.

And again, you ignore what I say, that I do not understand (what you
say does not make sense),

and now, after ignoring me 3 times, you ask a genuine question of me?

Do you see Ralph that, to me, you are coming across as disrespectful ?

 I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency hell
 or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and developers
 need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes newer releases
 than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't provide a stable branch
 that is up-to-date, in sync with stable releases from upstream, even the
 unstable branches of Debian don't provide this.

Completely ignoring what I said, going to pure technical conversation now!

 Wouldn't you call this a drawback for the evolution of Linux, while it
 has less, if any advantages to go this way?

Now going to strawman (Ralph creates his straw argument to shoot it
down, pretending he shoots someone but himself), nothing about what I
said!

Ralph, you are competant at ignoring salient points and responses!

Also, you are competant at raising strawmen!

Also, your are inequitable in your conversational behaviour! (Ignore
my repeated question and many things, then ask me another question;
then do this all again.)

Also, you are competant at bold assertions (false bold assertions,
true bold assertions, and whatever inbetween)!

Also, you are competant at completely ignoring/sweeping away entire
halves of sequential communication when it does not suit nor interest
you.

Also, you are competant at ignoring genuine questions.

Ralph, you are entirely competant in using these above and more techniques,
to defend your - existential, - politically correct, - utilitarian
metric, , , belief system,
to essentially bludgeon the conversation.

I can easily go to technical conversation with you. In the past I
have. With others I have.

But Ralph can you participate (substantially) in a conversation which
goes beyond mere technical?
Does the concept of higher aspiration
[upset|offend|disgust|challenge|affront] you?

(Now I am again asking you genuine questions, but you have shown
persistent, repeated disregard for my questions in the multiple
earlier parts of this conversation, so I wonder, am I wasting my time
even posing such questions to you.)

Ralph when you ignore my questions and ignore what I say,
and then you continue as though a big part of the conversation (my
half) never happened,
then you are being disrespectful, and stubborn, and biased,
and you fail to acknowledge my position.

It is funny: you pretend to dislike religious communication
(about my OS is better, my metric is most important)
but you religiously ignore those parts of my opinion that you don't
like, and persistently insist that your utility metric (for some
Ralphy definition of utility) is still better. In fact, you are so
stubborn in your insistence, that you continue to talk as though I
said almost nothing, and as though you expect me to respect your
technical question as somehow relevant, *at-this-point*, in the
conversation.

In English, we call you a hypocrite.

I am wondering if you are merely alternate-position-challenged, or
alternate-belief-challenged, or religiously attached to relationship
communication boundary testing, or belligerently (attempting to)
dominating your own belief system on me.

However, although I hope, I do not really expect you to engage
intelligently with these _real_ considerations (as opposed to your
strawman considerations of mine), since you have

Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.