Re: Caja de MATE squatte Iceweasel
Le 30/11/2014 19:34, Alain Rpnpif a écrit : Bonjour, Quand je voulais ouvrir le dossier de téléchargements de Iceweasel, clic-droit sur le fichier téléchargé, c'était Thunar qui prenait la main comme souhaité. Depuis que j'ai installé MATE, c'est Caja (ex-Nautilus 2) qui prend la main malgré que je sois sous Xfce. Dès que Caja est lancé, il reste en tâche de fond et prend la main pour certaines opérations à la place de Thunar comme par exemple ouvrir une clé USB. Quelqu'un sait-il comment imposer à Iceweasel Thuanr à la place de Caja ? De même, quand je suis sous Mate, je voudrais que ce soit Caja qui prenne la main. En résumé, Thunar sous Xfce et Caja sous Mate comme il se doit. Bonjour, peut être faut-il un profil différent par Desktop ? As-tu tenté avec iceweasel -p ce que ça donne ? Raphaël -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547d8bff.6080...@rignier.com
Re: [HS] Serveurs de clé OpenPGP
Hello, merci de ta réponse. J'ai envoyé ma clé sur SKS, ils synchronise encore avec d'autres, ce qui me paraît vachement plus pratique que d'envoyer à plein de serveurs différents qui ne communiquent pas entre eux. Le 01/12/2014 20:21, Fabián Rodríguez a écrit : Le 2014-12-01 13:41, Rhatay Sami a écrit : je voulais savoir quels serveurs de vous utilisiez pour poster vos clés publiques ? Enigmail ne propose que 3 choix par défaut... J'avais uploadé la clé sur 1 serveur mais l'un de mes contacts m'a fait remarquer qu'il n'arrivait pas à trouver ma clé... du coup je l'ai fait sur les 3. Est-ce bien suffisant ? Voilà les 3 serveurs : pgp.mit.edu pool.sks-keyservers.net keys.gnupg.net Techniquement ils synchronisent entre-eux... ou en tout cas ils le faisaient. Je publie toujours sur pool.sks-keyservers.net puis si j'ai le temps, sur les autres aussi. Pour être certain je demanderais sur la liste de discussion de GnuPG: http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users F. -- RHATAY Sami IUT Vannes - INFO2 ––– .--. / |o_o | |:_/ | // \ \ (| | ) /'\_ _/`\ \___)=(___/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
J'ai compris ce qui se passe. L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien. Je boote et je reboote sans problème. Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade jusqu'à ce tout soit à jour. Je tente de rebooter et mon boot n'est pas reconnu (il ne trouve aucun périphérique de boot). .? PC Le 01/12/2014 19:33, Pierre Couderc a écrit : J'ai réussi à installer en UEFI de base. Je n'ai pas compris pourquoi j'avais échoué précédemment, mais ça a l'air de fonctionner... Merci à tous. Le 01/12/2014 12:27, Pierre Couderc a écrit : Bonjour, J'ai un problème en installant une debian sur un Acer Travelmate (sans aucun OS alternatif). J'ai fait une installation minimum (laptop, utilitaire système), après avoir désactivé le boot EFI (Legacy Bios). Et il refuse de booter. Il passe en : grub rescue en déplorant l'absence de /mnt/boot/grub/i386pc/normal.mod En bootant avec un CD live, le disque a une bonne tête, avec une arborescence semble-ril normale. Merci pour votre aide. PC -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dee29.9070...@couderc.eu
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
On Tuesday 02 December 2014 17:51:53 Pierre Couderc wrote: J'ai compris ce qui se passe. L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien. Je boote et je reboote sans problème. Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade jusqu'à ce tout soit à jour. Je tente de rebooter et mon boot n'est pas reconnu (il ne trouve aucun périphérique de boot). Si boot Wheezy = OK et Jessie, non, quelle(s) application(s) est (sont) responsable(s) ? Grub ? (il aurait fallu garder le grub.cfg de Wheezy...) André -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201412021824.24275.andre_deb...@numericable.fr
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
Mmm, je suis prêt à résinstaller wheezy et à recommencer si ça fait avancer le schmillblick... Pour l'instant je vais voir si je peux trouver le grub.cfg avec un rescue CD. Le 02/12/2014 18:24, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit : On Tuesday 02 December 2014 17:51:53 Pierre Couderc wrote: J'ai compris ce qui se passe. L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien. Je boote et je reboote sans problème. Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade jusqu'à ce tout soit à jour. Je tente de rebooter et mon boot n'est pas reconnu (il ne trouve aucun périphérique de boot). Si boot Wheezy = OK et Jessie, non, quelle(s) application(s) est (sont) responsable(s) ? Grub ? (il aurait fallu garder le grub.cfg de Wheezy...) André -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dfe4d.2010...@couderc.eu
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
Voici le grub.cfg tel qu'il est actuellement, après migration sous jessie
Le 02/12/2014 18:24, andre_deb...@numericable.fr a écrit :
On Tuesday 02 December 2014 17:51:53 Pierre Couderc wrote:
J'ai compris ce qui se passe.
L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien.
Je boote et je reboote sans problème.
Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions
officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade jusqu'à ce tout
soit à jour.
Je tente de rebooter et mon boot n'est pas reconnu (il ne trouve aucun
périphérique de boot).
Si boot Wheezy = OK et Jessie, non,
quelle(s) application(s) est (sont) responsable(s) ?
Grub ?
(il aurait fallu garder le grub.cfg de Wheezy...)
André
#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
set have_grubenv=true
load_env
fi
if [ ${next_entry} ] ; then
set default=${next_entry}
set next_entry=
save_env next_entry
set boot_once=true
else
set default=0
fi
if [ x${feature_menuentry_id} = xy ]; then
menuentry_id_option=--id
else
menuentry_id_option=
fi
export menuentry_id_option
if [ ${prev_saved_entry} ]; then
set saved_entry=${prev_saved_entry}
save_env saved_entry
set prev_saved_entry=
save_env prev_saved_entry
set boot_once=true
fi
function savedefault {
if [ -z ${boot_once} ]; then
saved_entry=${chosen}
save_env saved_entry
fi
}
function load_video {
if [ x$feature_all_video_module = xy ]; then
insmod all_video
else
insmod efi_gop
insmod efi_uga
insmod ieee1275_fb
insmod vbe
insmod vga
insmod video_bochs
insmod video_cirrus
fi
}
if [ x$feature_default_font_path = xy ] ; then
font=unicode
else
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
set root='hd0,gpt2'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt2
--hint-efi=hd0,gpt2 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt2 --hint='hd0,gpt2'
932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
fi
font=/usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2
fi
if loadfont $font ; then
set gfxmode=auto
load_video
insmod gfxterm
set locale_dir=$prefix/locale
set lang=en_US
insmod gettext
fi
terminal_output gfxterm
if [ ${recordfail} = 1 ] ; then
set timeout=-1
else
if [ x$feature_timeout_style = xy ] ; then
set timeout_style=menu
set timeout=5
# Fallback normal timeout code in case the timeout_style feature is
# unavailable.
else
set timeout=5
fi
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
set menu_color_normal=cyan/blue
set menu_color_highlight=white/blue
### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
function gfxmode {
set gfxpayload=${1}
}
set linux_gfx_mode=
export linux_gfx_mode
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux' --class debian --class gnu-linux --class gnu
--class os $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-simple-932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f' {
load_video
insmod gzio
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
set root='hd0,gpt2'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt2
--hint-efi=hd0,gpt2 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt2 --hint='hd0,gpt2'
932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
fi
echo'Loading Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64
root=UUID=932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f ro quiet
echo'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-amd64
}
submenu 'Advanced options for Debian GNU/Linux' $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-advanced-932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f' {
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64' --class debian
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-3.16.0-4-amd64-advanced-932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f' {
load_video
insmod gzio
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
set root='hd0,gpt2'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt2
--hint-efi=hd0,gpt2 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt2 --hint='hd0,gpt2'
932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f
fi
echo'Loading Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64
root=UUID=932275bb-e7c0-407f-a259-5384a7d93a7f ro quiet
echo'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
Bonjour, Le 02/12/2014 17:51, Pierre Couderc a écrit : J'ai compris ce qui se passe. L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien. Je boote et je reboote sans problème. Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade Une migration sur un serveur, avec beaucoup de configuration..., encore passe, mais là, une install from scratch, sur un portable, pourquoi pas directement avec l'installeur jessie https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/index.fr.html ? Avec toutes les modifications y compris dans le démarrage (systemd...), je ne vois pas l'intérêt de passer par une installation wheezy suivie d'un upgrade. Bonne soirée, Luc. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e0b1a.50...@enac.fr
Re: Debian sur ACER Travelmate ne boote pas
Merci, la réponse est que dans la doc officielle, il est écrit qu'il faut passer par wheezy pour installer sid... Je ne connaissais pas cet installer, je vais essayer mais je suis inquiet de prendre le risque que mon PC brutalement ne veuille pas démarrer un jour de mise à jour. J'essaye et rendrai compte. Le 02/12/2014 19:55, Luc Novales a écrit : Bonjour, Le 02/12/2014 17:51, Pierre Couderc a écrit : J'ai compris ce qui se passe. L'installation sous wheezy se passe bien. Je boote et je reboote sans problème. Puis, je fais une migration à jessie (en suivant les instructions officielles), puis une série de aptitude upgrade Une migration sur un serveur, avec beaucoup de configuration..., encore passe, mais là, une install from scratch, sur un portable, pourquoi pas directement avec l'installeur jessie https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/index.fr.html ? Avec toutes les modifications y compris dans le démarrage (systemd...), je ne vois pas l'intérêt de passer par une installation wheezy suivie d'un upgrade. Bonne soirée, Luc. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e0cac.9050...@couderc.eu
Debian LTS?
Bonjour, S'il y en a parmi vous qui roulent encore des serveurs/systèmes avec Debian 6, je vous invite à ajouter les dépôts Debian LTS: https://wiki.debian.org/fr/LTS/Using et si vous voulez soutenir cette fonctionalité, je vous invite à contribuer financièrement ici: http://www.freexian.com/services/debian-lts.html J'ai demandé à R. Hertzog comment contribuer au projet pour avoir l'information en français sur son site, il y a aussi ceci: https://wiki.debian.org/fr/LTS A+ Fabian -- Fabián Rodríguez - XMPP/Jabber+OTR: magic...@member.fsf.org http://debian.magicfab.ca signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Client léger : Boot en PXE montage / en NFS (read-only).
Bonsoir, Raph a écrit : Le 27/11/2014 16:16, Vincent Farget a écrit : Bonjour, Bonjour, En regardant sur le net, je suis tombé sur un article qui parle de aufs (basé, à priori, sur UnionFS). Cela parait être une solution à mon problème. Je vais y regarder de plus prêt. Je reviendrais sur la liste, si je ne m'en sort pas ... ;-) Merci, Bien cordialement. - Vincent FARGET. Sébastien NOBILI a écrit : Le jeudi 27 novembre 2014 à 15:15, Vincent Farget a écrit : Question : Y'a t'il un moyen de définir une possibilité pour les clients léger, d'écrire dans un système de fichier qui serait temporaire (il n'est pas nécessaire qu'il survie au reboot) ? Oui, tu peux très bien ajouter dans le /etc/fstab des directives de montage type « tmpfs » pour tous les dossiers que tu veux. Ensuite, tu n'auras qu'à ajouter les commandes de montage dans un script d'init (que tu peux créer) ou bien dans le script /etc/rc.local. Sinon, François B. (ici présent) maintient un système live (qui boote depuis une clé USB) sur lequel il a mis en place une solution permettant d'avoir des données modifiables et persistentes sur un système de fichiers en lecture seule. Je crois que c'est basé sur unionfs, il le confirmera si il passe dans le coin. http://clefagreg.dnsalias.org/ Seb - M. FARGET Vincent Systemes Informatiques et developpements webs Je sais pas si c'est ce que tu cherches, mais pour mes clients légers, je pars de ltsp-server qui sous Debian par défaut utilise NFS contrairement, à Ubuntu qui utilise nbd et squashfs. Le plus gros du travail est fait par LTSP avec une install debootstrap minimum et un chroot (lecture seule) configurable à volonté en modifiant/créant quelques scripts dans /usr/share/ltsp et la config ltsp.conf chargée depuis tftp. Côté client, toutes les modifs mon sont non persistantes en dehors des montages nfs en rw. Raphaël Je n'en ai pas parlé, mais je suis arrivé dans une structure ou il y a un pool de (5) serveurs LTSP (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS avec nbd squashfs) et des clients léger. Je souhaite remplacer ce système client/serveur LTSP vieillissant (de plus en plus décalé dans les versions), par un nouveau système de clients légers (sous NFS évidement). Donc : Oui, c'est ce que je cherches à mettre en place. Ne connaissant pas (actuellement) la conf de LTSP, est-ce lourd à configurer ou est-ce assez/extrêmement simple (création de scripts ???) ? Si tu as déjà réalisé ce type de configuration, as tu des (précieux) conseils ? Bien cordialement. - Vincent. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e2b21.7060...@orange.fr
Re: Ada komunitas debian di jakarta?
saya orang depok, kurang tau juga klo daerah jakarta ada komunitasnya atau gak... Am 01.12.2014 um 11:17 schrieb T. Surya Fajri: kebetulan saya mau ke Jakarta, apakah ada komunitas debian di Jakarta? -- Best Regard T. Surya Fajri http://www.diskurid.com Debian Indonesian Translator debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org mailto:debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org http://debian.or.id/
Re: Ada komunitas debian di jakarta?
terima kasih infonya teman-teman 2014-12-02 19:16 GMT+07:00 Bayu Arendra bayuaren...@gmail.com: saya orang depok, kurang tau juga klo daerah jakarta ada komunitasnya atau gak... Am 01.12.2014 um 11:17 schrieb T. Surya Fajri: kebetulan saya mau ke Jakarta, apakah ada komunitas debian di Jakarta? -- Best Regard T. Surya Fajri http://www.diskurid.com Debian Indonesian Translator debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org http://debian.or.id/ -- Best Regard T. Surya Fajri http://www.diskurid.com Debian Indonesian Translator debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org http://debian.or.id/
Re: Ada komunitas debian di jakarta?
sebenernya bnyak yg pakai debian tp untuk komunitas lebih aktif komunitas keturunannya seperti ubuntu salam Hasbi On Dec 3, 2014 7:33 AM, T. Surya Fajri kile...@gmail.com wrote: terima kasih infonya teman-teman 2014-12-02 19:16 GMT+07:00 Bayu Arendra bayuaren...@gmail.com: saya orang depok, kurang tau juga klo daerah jakarta ada komunitasnya atau gak... Am 01.12.2014 um 11:17 schrieb T. Surya Fajri: kebetulan saya mau ke Jakarta, apakah ada komunitas debian di Jakarta? -- Best Regard T. Surya Fajri http://www.diskurid.com Debian Indonesian Translator debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org http://debian.or.id/ -- Best Regard T. Surya Fajri http://www.diskurid.com Debian Indonesian Translator debian-l10n-indones...@lists.debian.org http://debian.or.id/
Devuan y un poco mas de luz
Fuentes: http://forum.debianizzati.org/viewtopic.php?f=15t=49133start=225 Extraccion y traduccion desde: http://lamiradadelreplicante.com/2014/12/01/devuan-uno-de-los-creadores-del-fork-de-debian-da-su-vision-del-proyecto/ Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: - - - Hola a todos Soy Franco NEXTIME Lanza uno de los autores del fork Devuan. Escribo en este hilo para hacer algunas aclaraciones que espero puedan ser apreciadas No tengo la intención de explicar y /o discutir el derecho a hacer un fork ,o porqué lo estamos haciendo, si systemd es bueno o no, etc, etc, esto ya tiene consumido demasiados teclados. Sin embargo me gustaría hacer algunas aclaraciones sobre lo que somos y lo que estamos haciendo en relación a los diferentes comentarios que surgieron en este hilo. VUA es un grupo de personas asociados en un foro de discusión privado y cerrado que nació hace años, alrededor de unos 3 y medio, formado por un grupo de “viejos” administradores de sistemas Unix. Todos amigos y en su mayoría de la zona de Milan El nombre viene de aquí: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2623488/unix/nine-traits-of-the-veteran-unix-admin.html .Nuestra definición interna se reconoce en al menos 5, preferiblemente 6 de los puntos enumerados en ese artículo. Aunque cerrado y privado el grupo VUA ha crecido con el tiempo, contando en estes momentos con 932 miembros, el 95% de Italia e incluyendo ya no solo administradores del sistema sino otra gente relacionada con la informática y/o cercana a Unix. Entre ellos un grupo de 50 personas, todos usuarios de Debian desde hace tiempo, algunos desarrolladores, algunos sysadmin y otros incluso desarrolladores de Debian decidieron poner en marcha el sitio debianfork.org, debido a que por razones que ya no vienen al caso discutir no querían la imposición de systemd. Después que el asunto de la resolución general de Debian finalizara mal en nuestra opinión, decidimos avanzar y crear un fork. Actualmente Devuan el fork en cuestión cuenta con una docena de desarrolladores activos de estes veteranos VUAs…y otros están uniéndose o a punto de unirse al proyecto. El proyecto es muy serio…no es trolling…se decidió que era el momento de dejar de gritar que no queremos imposiciones y que había llegado el momento de actuar y crear un fork, y lo estamos haciendo. Debo hacer hincapié en que Debuan no es una Debian sin systemd o contra systemd, de hecho este sistema de inicio será soportado. Devuan es un fork a favor de la libertad de elección. Por defecto vendrá con sysvinit, pero ofrecerá soporte a todos los init, todos los que se encuentran en Debian por lo menos. Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. …muchos dicen que no se sabe quién está detrás. Aparte de la explicación de que en el grupo VUA hay un número de nosotros que al menos por ahora quiere permanecer en el anonimato. También existe el motivo de que considerando las fuertes diatribas que se montan contra cualquiera que no es “pro-systemd”, muchos prefieren no exponerse a sufrir insultos, amenazas, incluso denigración.. Otra de las críticas es que estamos poco tiempo online…gente! es que estamos bifurcando una distribución enorme, lo que significa no solo paquetes, también trabajo organizativo, estructura, toma de decisiones, etc..El fork comenzó hace una semana, dejarnos tiempo para organizarnos :D ¿Quién recibe el dinero: Dyne.org, asociación sin ánimo de lucro ha existido durante muchos años, reconocido por la FSF y la comunidad Europea, con sede en los Países Bajos, que opera varios proyectos de código abierto. Su presidente es Jaromil (Denis Roio), que es también un miembro de VUA y una de las personas detrás del fork que ha accedido a gestionar por nosotros los fondos y el pago de impuestos, todo ello de manera transparente (el balance es público) En otro momento del hilo también explica el porque no es posible colaborar con Debian dentro de proyectos como uselessd No no podríamos y explico porqué, debido a lo que ha pasado con la llamada a Resolución General de Ian Jackson y como se están comportando diferentes mantenedores (por favor no me haga dar nombres…) el rechazo de parches y argumentaciones del tipo “si no te gusta systemd eres troll, ignorante y otros insultos es imposible colaborar ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… También critica otros
Re: Sonido en jessie [SOLUCIONADO]
El Mon, 01 Dec 2014 16:22:59 -0300, JavierDebian escribió: El 26/11/14 a las 15:20, Camaleón escibió: (...) Si sucede eso (que es lo esperable) indica que algo está impidiendo al módulo de sonido de intel que se pueda cargar al iniciar el sistema por lo que no estaría de más que comprobaras que no está en la lista negra de módulos (/etc/modprobe.d/*). Si no ves nada raro, te recomendaría que informaras en el BTS de Debian aunque ya te digo que a mí sí me funciona en Jessie y cuando añado ese módulo en el /etc/modules el journal lo muestra cargado. Bien. Los malos de la película eran /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noALSA.conf y /etc/modprobe.d/oss4-base_noOSS3.conf. Por algún motivo que desconozco, los módulos del kernel para el sonido de la tarjeta (p. ej., snd-*) y los de OSS son incompatibles (o cargas uno u otro pero no ambos porque entran en conflicto). Del primero, tuve en su momento una leve sospecha, dado que en una de sus líneas contiene la instrucción blacklist snd-hda-intel, la cual eliminé hace varios meses, sin resultado positivo. Pues es lo que te dije allá por octubre¹, pero no hubo caso :-) Esta vez me tomé el trabajo de sacar de /etc/modprobe.d/ todos los archivos, que son los que siguen alsa-base fbdev-blacklist.conf intel-microcode-blacklist.conf mdadm.conf modesetting.conf nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf - /etc/alternatives/glx--nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf nvidia.conf - /etc/alternatives/nvidia--nvidia-modprobe.conf nvidia-kernel-common.conf oss4-base.conf osspd.conf oss4-base_noALSA.conf oss4-base_noOSS3.conf y reiniciar el equipo. Mágicamente, el sonido volvió. De mágico nada... Razón por la que fui agregando de a un archivo, y reiniciando el sistema, hasta que cuando incluía cualquiera de los dos últimos, me quedaba sin sonido. Es evidente que los larguísimos blacklist que ambos poseen bloquean el sistema de sonido de ALSA. Con un grep -i black /etc/modprobe.d/* te hubieras ahorrado mucho tiempo y disgustos. La solución por ahora fue eliminarlos de /etc/modprobe.d/, sin ningún inconveniente detectado. ¿Mand? ¿Que has eliminado todos? :-O No, hombre, no hagas eso que esos archivos contienen configuraciones que te pueden servir... haz una búsqueda selectiva o en todo caso renombra los de oss*. Es más, una pequeña placa de audio USB que no funcionaba, (lo achacaba a falta de controladores), ahora sí lo hace. (Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB Stereo Audio Adapter, C-Media Chipset, RoHS) Lo que me queda pendiente por averiguar es por qué una instalación limpia de Debian, carga tantos blacklist de OSS que impiden la correcta ejecución de ALSA. La pregunta sería más bien por qué tienes instalado el paquete OSS si tienes ALSA y los módulos del kernel detectan la tarjeta de sonido sin problemas. ¹https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/2014/10/msg00127.html Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.02.14.33...@gmail.com
Re: Actualizar de Debian wheezy a Debian jessie
El 2014-12-01 a las 21:27 -0300, Gustavo Vega escribió:
(reenvío a la lista, me llegó al privado)
El 1 de diciembre de 2014, 11:27, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
(...)
Ahora bien, al quitar los comentarios de Mozzilla (entre comillas
porque
no especifica que sean solamente de Mozzilla, como si lo especifica el
repositorio de wheezy: deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ wheezy-backports
iceweasel-release) no me va a quedar una mezcla de paquetes entre
testing /
unestable y experimental al hacer un nuevo upgrade?
De lo que se trata es de hacer primero una actualización limpia (que
no haya conflictos) del sistema que es lo importante y luego una vez
que hayas actualizado a testing ya irás actualizando los paquetes que
tengas del repo D-M y los de Mozilla.
Hola, ya actualice a jessie como me dijeron, dejando solo los repos
oficiales.
Perfecto, de eso se trataba, de que la actualización del sistema fase
transcurriera sin problemas.
Pero al activar los repos de mozilla team para jessie (unstable y
experimental),
deb http://cdn.debian.net/debian unstable main
deb http://cdn.debian.net/debian experimental main
no solo actualiza los paquetes de mozilla (en mi caso iceweasel), sino
actualiza 123 paquetes a unstable, tal cual había pensado yo.
Creo que no lo estás haciendo bien. Esos repos son únicamente para que
actualices/instales *los paquetes de Mozilla* (iceweasel/icedove) como
indican en las instrucciones de la página (apt-get install -t
experimental iceweasel) no para que los tengas habilitados siempre e
instales toda la paquetería de ahí.
gustavo@debian:~$ apt-show-versions -b|awk
'BEGIN{FS=/}NF==2{a[$2]++}NF!=2{a[no oficial]++}END{for (i in a) print
i, a[i]}'
jessie 867
experimental 2
unstable 123
gustavo@debian:~$
Los paquetes que instalo de la rama unstable los pueden ver en el link, ya
que la salida es muy extensa.
http://pastebin.com/NkemjcWs
Ahora no importa porque es una maquina virtual (virtualbox), pero si fuese
en la maquina real me quedan mezclados los paquetes y entiendo que puede
ser perjudicial para el sistema.
De todas formas ya se que no pasa nada, ya me lo dijeron y además si están
en la Web de Debian Mozilla Team no pasa nada. Es solo a modo informativo.
Saludos y gracias por todo!!
Gustavo Vega
Si es una máquina virtual (podrás crear una snapshot del sistema antes
de hacer cambios) y dado que tienes la lista de paquetes que se han
actualizado puedes volver a instalar los paquetes que se correpsonden
con tu versión para que no tengas problemas en el futuro.
Y recuerda que si quieres usar el repo de Mozilla los paquetes se
actualizan de forma individual y si el gestor de paquetes te dice que
te va a instalar 50 paquetes de una versión distinta, pues hombre,
abortas y le dices que no ;-)
Saludos,
--
Camaleón
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Re: Debian se congela
El Mon, 01 Dec 2014 19:10:39 -0500, Germán Avendaño Ramírez escribió: El 01/12/14 a las 09:12, Camaleón escibió: No conozco r commander ¿qué hace exactamente esa aplicación y qué requisitos tiene en cuanto a hardware? Camaleón, R Commander es un frontend de R. GNU-R es una aplicación para trabajar especialmente estadística, aunque se pueden trabajar muchas más cosas de matemáticas. En los repositorios de Debian se encuentra r básico mediante el paquete r-base que se puede complementar con los paquetes r-cran-*. Este software es usado en las universidades, por ejemplo aquí en la Universidad Nacional de Colombia en el departamento de Estadística. Gracias por la explicación. Si se trata de un programa de estadística y manejo de datos en bruto, dependiendo del tamaño de los archivos de entrada (¿GiB?) quizá sí te pueda generar una carga de trabajo en el equipo notable, dependiendo de la potencia del mismo lo que puede hacer que el equipo se sobrecaliente como dices más abajo. Lo primero sería mirar los registros, aunque la mayoría de los cuelgues debido a problemas con el hardware no dejan señal alguna. Por ejemplo, un exceso de calentamiento, un módulo de memoria en mal estado, un disco duro con sectores defectuosos o problemas con el micro suelen causar cuelgues repentinos o reinicios que no dejan huella. Después, convendría saber si el cuelgue se debe a las X o al kernel. Para descartar un problema con el servidor gráfico suele ser útil acceder desde otro equipo con ssh ya que si el servidor X está colgado el acceso mediante ssh seguirá funcionando sin problemas. En cambio, si no responde, apuntaría a un cuelgue del kernel que es más difícil de gestionar ya que tendrás que buscar un patrón de error (ver en qué situación se produce ese cuelgue) aunque también puedes probar con una versión del kernel superior a la actual (p. ej., el que está disponible en los baskports) para ver si funciona sin problemas. En cuanto al problema, si he notado un problema con la temperatura. Ésta sube hasta el nivel crítico por lo que tengo que usar una base refrigerante. Seguramente éste fue el motivo. Este portátil vino con este inconveniente de temperatura, pero ya se pasó el tiempo de garantía. Entonces te convendría hacer dos cosas: 1/ Monitorizar la temperatura de manera constante (hay aplicaciones de escritorio que te ponen un grafiquito en pantalla o en la barra de tareas con los datos de los sensores) para verificar en todo momento que no sobrepase la recomendada por el micro aunque no te olvides tampoco del resto de componentes, hay tarjetas gráficas que son auténticas estufas. 2/ Refrescar el equipo (hacer una limpieza integral sería lo ideal porque los ventiladores mecánicos acumulan mucha pelusa). Además, como se trata de un portátil podrías usar una de esas bases que llevan ventiladores y evitar así que el equipo entre en shock por golpe de calor :-) Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.02.14.43...@gmail.com
Re: Actualizar de Debian wheezy a Debian jessie
Pero al activar los repos de mozilla team para jessie (unstable y
experimental),
deb http://cdn.debian.net/debian unstable main
deb http://cdn.debian.net/debian experimental main
no solo actualiza los paquetes de mozilla (en mi caso iceweasel), sino
actualiza 123 paquetes a unstable, tal cual había pensado yo.
Creo que no lo estás haciendo bien. Esos repos son únicamente para que
actualices/instales *los paquetes de Mozilla* (iceweasel/icedove) como
indican en las instrucciones de la página (apt-get install -t
experimental iceweasel) no para que los tengas habilitados siempre e
instales toda la paquetería de ahí.
gustavo@debian:~$ apt-show-versions -b|awk
'BEGIN{FS=/}NF==2{a[$2]++}NF!=2{a[no oficial]++}END{for (i in a) print
i, a[i]}'
jessie 867
experimental 2
unstable 123
gustavo@debian:~$
Los paquetes que instalo de la rama unstable los pueden ver en el link, ya
que la salida es muy extensa.
http://pastebin.com/NkemjcWs
Ahora no importa porque es una maquina virtual (virtualbox), pero si fuese
en la maquina real me quedan mezclados los paquetes y entiendo que puede
ser perjudicial para el sistema.
De todas formas ya se que no pasa nada, ya me lo dijeron y además si están
en la Web de Debian Mozilla Team no pasa nada. Es solo a modo informativo.
Saludos y gracias por todo!!
Gustavo Vega
Si es una máquina virtual (podrás crear una snapshot del sistema antes
de hacer cambios) y dado que tienes la lista de paquetes que se han
actualizado puedes volver a instalar los paquetes que se correpsonden
con tu versión para que no tengas problemas en el futuro.
Y recuerda que si quieres usar el repo de Mozilla los paquetes se
actualizan de forma individual y si el gestor de paquetes te dice que
te va a instalar 50 paquetes de una versión distinta, pues hombre,
abortas y le dices que no ;-)
Saludos,
A ver, quizas sea por usar una rama diferente, pero en mi sistema debian
sid comparto el repositorio correspondiente con el experimental sin
haber definido un pinning. Existiendo este por defecto un valor de
prioridad de 500 para sid y 100 para experimental. Con lo cual solo
utilizando el argumento -t en apt-get puedo pescarme algo del repo
experimental (practicado para el paquete iceweasel/mozilla con exito).
Ya he actualizo varias veces con full-upgrade sin ningun problema.
Me parece extraño que en Jessie/testing suceda lo que comentas, ya que
no puedo asegurarlo pero creo haber tenido una similar experiencia a la
que acabo de comentar tambien en esa rama.
¿no habras tocado algo?
Saludos desde el sur, alunado.
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Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 09:52:18 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: Fuentes: http://forum.debianizzati.org/viewtopic.php?f=15t=49133start=225 Extraccion y traduccion desde: http://lamiradadelreplicante.com/2014/12/01/devuan-uno-de-los-creadores-del-fork-de-debian-da-su-vision-del-proyecto/ Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.02.15.42...@gmail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El 02/12/14 a las 12:42, Camaleón escibió: El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 09:52:18 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: Fuentes: http://forum.debianizzati.org/viewtopic.php?f=15t=49133start=225 Extraccion y traduccion desde: http://lamiradadelreplicante.com/2014/12/01/devuan-uno-de-los-creadores-del-fork-de-debian-da-su-vision-del-proyecto/ Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Saludos, Justamente me acorde de tus comentarios en el tema systemd cuando leia sobre las ramificaciones y depedencias cada vez mas profundas encontre algo a favor de systemd, que aunque traducido por google se lee muy bien... lo dejo por aqui tambien: **A favor de systemd** https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1hl=esrurl=translate.google.comsl=autotl=esu=http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.htmlusg=ALkJrhj-DDRCKLHprv5kL_4mQF3zHqxJzw Al final la adopcion de systed por parte de los DD para fundada en una gran razon: trabajar menos -si mal no entiendo las cosas-. Hasta luego... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547de76c.3090...@mail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:23:08 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 12:42, Camaleón escibió: (...) Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Justamente me acorde de tus comentarios en el tema systemd cuando leia sobre las ramificaciones y depedencias cada vez mas profundas encontre algo a favor de systemd, que aunque traducido por google se lee muy bien... lo dejo por aqui tambien: (...) Esa página que apuntas¹ es más antigua que el Balrog de Moria. De hecho es del desarrollador principal de systemd y efectivamente, ninguno de sus mitos desmitifica lo que están diciendo los devuanenses, es decir, que tienen más razón que un santo ;-) ¹http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.02.16.30...@gmail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El 02/12/14 a las 13:30, Camaleón escibió: El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:23:08 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 12:42, Camaleón escibió: (...) Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Justamente me acorde de tus comentarios en el tema systemd cuando leia sobre las ramificaciones y depedencias cada vez mas profundas encontre algo a favor de systemd, que aunque traducido por google se lee muy bien... lo dejo por aqui tambien: (...) Esa página que apuntas¹ es más antigua que el Balrog de Moria. De hecho es del desarrollador principal de systemd y efectivamente, ninguno de sus mitos desmitifica lo que están diciendo los devuanenses, es decir, que tienen más razón que un santo ;-) ¹http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Eso mismo pude notar aun en mi oscura ignorancia, que no desmitifica los problemas de los que se encuentra acusado aun hoy. Aunque personalmente me sirvio para entender mejor sus fortalezas. La falta de scrips redundantes y la administracion centralizada con una pequeña curva de aprendizaje... (es lo que mas me quedo en el marote). Ellos mismos -o el- aclara que la velocidad no fue lo buscado sino un resultado consecuente del nuevo diseño. Realmente parecen dos posiciones 'ireconciliables'. pfff... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547decfa.8080...@mail.com
Debian con OpenRC
procedimientos para instalar OpenRC en debian. Este resuelve las profundas dependencias que genera systemd en otros servicios mediante systemd-shim. Crei haber leido aqui alguna queja sobre usar systemd-shim... aparentemente no hay mas soluciones (sin considerar el fork Devuan) http://www.esdebian.org/wiki/openrc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dea92.9070...@mail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El día 2 de diciembre de 2014, 13:46, unciegobailando unciegobaila...@mail.com escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 13:30, Camaleón escibió: El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:23:08 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 12:42, Camaleón escibió: (...) Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Justamente me acorde de tus comentarios en el tema systemd cuando leia sobre las ramificaciones y depedencias cada vez mas profundas encontre algo a favor de systemd, que aunque traducido por google se lee muy bien... lo dejo por aqui tambien: (...) Esa página que apuntas¹ es más antigua que el Balrog de Moria. De hecho es del desarrollador principal de systemd y efectivamente, ninguno de sus mitos desmitifica lo que están diciendo los devuanenses, es decir, que tienen más razón que un santo ;-) ¹http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Eso mismo pude notar aun en mi oscura ignorancia, que no desmitifica los problemas de los que se encuentra acusado aun hoy. Aunque personalmente me sirvio para entender mejor sus fortalezas. La falta de scrips redundantes y la administracion centralizada con una pequeña curva de aprendizaje... (es lo que mas me quedo en el marote). Ellos mismos -o el- aclara que la velocidad no fue lo buscado sino un resultado consecuente del nuevo diseño. Realmente parecen dos posiciones 'ireconciliables'. pfff... He estado siguiendo lo que se dice sobre los dos sistemas de arranque; hoy han estallado todos los foros y blogs con el tema de DEVUAN. Mi opinión: lo mejor que pudo pasar. ¿Por qué? Porque no me cabe dudas que va a terminar en algo mucho mejor que no es ni sysvinit ni systemd. ¿De dónde lo saco? De la experiencia de la tríada dialéctica. Después de 20, es la primera vez que se le mueve el piso a Debian. Y todo organismo sólo evoluciona cuando se ve sometido a presión. Creo que va a ser una forma de quebrar paradigmas de las nuevas generaciones, de romper con lo anterior, no porque sea malo, si no por el simple hecho de intentar otra vía. Ambos sistemas tienen los suyo, tanto de bueno como de malo. Lo único que realmente me molesta de systemd, son los logs binarios. JAP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAG0od5cYY5JJo+VKFyowB6=py7efenzugeyj+rbve-1tzgf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian con OpenRC
El martes, 2 dic 2014 a las 17:36 horas (UTC+1), unciegobailando escribió: procedimientos para instalar OpenRC en debian. Este resuelve las profundas dependencias que genera systemd en otros servicios mediante systemd-shim. systemd-shim se puede usar con cualquier sistema de inicio, incluido systemd-sysv, aunque en este último caso no hace nada. Por otro lado, en el README.Debian de openrc (0.13.1-4, testing) se lee: This package is EXPERIMENTAL. Installing it could make your system UNBOOTABLE. Only use this package for testing purposes in a virtual machine, unless you are very brave! -- Roger Leigh rle...@debian.org Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:54:39 +0100 No sé si ese README está desactualizado o no, pero asusta lo suyo. Crei haber leido aqui alguna queja sobre usar systemd-shim... aparentemente no hay mas soluciones (sin considerar el fork Devuan) Devuan también va a usar systemd-shim, por lo que según tu criterio tampoco es una solución. http://www.esdebian.org/wiki/openrc Saludos. -- Manolo Díaz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202180824.1f487...@gmail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El 02/12/14 a las 14:21, Javier ArgentinaBBAR escibió: El día 2 de diciembre de 2014, 13:46, unciegobailando unciegobaila...@mail.com escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 13:30, Camaleón escibió: El Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:23:08 -0300, unciegobailando escribió: El 02/12/14 a las 12:42, Camaleón escibió: (...) Aqui copio y pego las declaraciones de uno de los administradores de Devuan: (...) Entonces que cosas se cambian con respecto a Debian? Muchísimas. Se ha dicho que systemd se pueden evitar en Debian, pero esto no es cierto.Usted puede retirarla del PID1 pero los “tentáculos” están en todas las partes del sistema, y no es posible evitarlo por completo. (...) ahora casi todo el sistema básico depende de libsystemd0, y sus ramificaciones y dependencias son cada vez más y más profundas en debian como pasa en otros sistemas que lo han adoptado. En estas condiciones no es posible conseguir lo que queremos, es decir, la libertad de utilizar o no systemd… (...) Completa y desgraciadamente cierto :-/ Justamente me acorde de tus comentarios en el tema systemd cuando leia sobre las ramificaciones y depedencias cada vez mas profundas encontre algo a favor de systemd, que aunque traducido por google se lee muy bien... lo dejo por aqui tambien: (...) Esa página que apuntas¹ es más antigua que el Balrog de Moria. De hecho es del desarrollador principal de systemd y efectivamente, ninguno de sus mitos desmitifica lo que están diciendo los devuanenses, es decir, que tienen más razón que un santo ;-) ¹http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Eso mismo pude notar aun en mi oscura ignorancia, que no desmitifica los problemas de los que se encuentra acusado aun hoy. Aunque personalmente me sirvio para entender mejor sus fortalezas. La falta de scrips redundantes y la administracion centralizada con una pequeña curva de aprendizaje... (es lo que mas me quedo en el marote). Ellos mismos -o el- aclara que la velocidad no fue lo buscado sino un resultado consecuente del nuevo diseño. Realmente parecen dos posiciones 'ireconciliables'. pfff... He estado siguiendo lo que se dice sobre los dos sistemas de arranque; hoy han estallado todos los foros y blogs con el tema de DEVUAN. Mi opinión: lo mejor que pudo pasar. ¿Por qué? Porque no me cabe dudas que va a terminar en algo mucho mejor que no es ni sysvinit ni systemd. ¿De dónde lo saco? De la experiencia de la tríada dialéctica. Después de 20, es la primera vez que se le mueve el piso a Debian. Y todo organismo sólo evoluciona cuando se ve sometido a presión. Creo que va a ser una forma de quebrar paradigmas de las nuevas generaciones, de romper con lo anterior, no porque sea malo, si no por el simple hecho de intentar otra vía. Ambos sistemas tienen los suyo, tanto de bueno como de malo. Lo único que realmente me molesta de systemd, son los logs binarios. JAP aprovecho que estoy curioseando y les pregunto algo tecnico sobre systemd que no me ha gusta (no se si estoy bien orientado..) No resulta -asquerosamente- intrusivo que systemd se meta entre los pedidos de una aplicacion y d-bus? O sea que si falla systemd se me cuelga todo el escritorio gnome por ejemplo (y quizas parcialmente cualquier otro entorno)? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dfeee.6080...@mail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 03:03:26PM -0300, unciegobailando wrote: No resulta -asquerosamente- intrusivo que systemd se meta entre los pedidos de una aplicacion y d-bus? O sea que si falla systemd se me cuelga todo el escritorio gnome por ejemplo (y quizas parcialmente cualquier otro entorno)? Pues más o menos lo mismo que si falla el núcleo o el servidor X, se puede colgar todo el escritorio igualmente. Que un determinado software pueda tener bugs ya lo sabíamos, no hay nada nuevo en ello. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202221319.ga2...@cantor.unex.es
Re: Debian con OpenRC
El martes, 2 dic 2014, a las 18:08 horas (UTC+1), Manolo Díaz escribió: Por otro lado, en el README.Debian de openrc (0.13.1-4, testing) se lee: This package is EXPERIMENTAL. Installing it could make your system UNBOOTABLE. Only use this package for testing purposes in a virtual machine, unless you are very brave! -- Roger Leigh rle...@debian.org Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:54:39 +0100 No sé si ese README está desactualizado o no, pero asusta lo suyo. Pues parece que el aviso ya no es válido, lo que cuadra que openrc esté disponible en Jessie. Acabo de recibir respuesta de un mantenedor: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=771834 Saludos. -- Manolo Díaz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141203005257.35080...@gmail.com
Re: Devuan y un poco mas de luz
El 02/12/14 a las 19:13, Santiago Vila escibió: On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 03:03:26PM -0300, unciegobailando wrote: No resulta -asquerosamente- intrusivo que systemd se meta entre los pedidos de una aplicacion y d-bus? O sea que si falla systemd se me cuelga todo el escritorio gnome por ejemplo (y quizas parcialmente cualquier otro entorno)? Pues más o menos lo mismo que si falla el núcleo o el servidor X, se puede colgar todo el escritorio igualmente. Que un determinado software pueda tener bugs ya lo sabíamos, no hay nada nuevo en ello. Ok Santiago.. pero a mi el nucleo no me falla hace mucho y el servidor x tampoco (mis graficas son intel). El asunto aqui es que sistemaD es un nuevo intermediario en un aplicacoin y d-bus, mientra segun pude entender, antes no se necesitaba de esto. en fin.. gracias che igualmente. Biene bien para des-asnarse. jiji. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e9fe4.2060...@mail.com
[OFF-TOPIC] GVT de 35MB
Colegas, Alguém do grupo possui GVT da velocidade de 35MB? Se sim, qual o modem que eles costumam enviar? Outra dúvida: Eles costuma bloquear portas baixas, do tipo: 80, 21, 22 e etc? Estou migrando de velocidade, passando para 35Megas e preciso de um modem que possua recursos avançados, do tipo que deixe eu mudar a range de IPs, desativar o DHCP e que faça uma DMZ para o IP do servidor. E também preciso que essas portas mencionadas estejam abertas. Atualmente tenho GVT de 15MB, com um modem SAGEMCOM que tem todos esses recursos e o link não tem nenhuma porta bloqueada. No aguardo de informações. Atenciosamente, Henrique Fagundes henri...@linuxadmin.com.br Skype: magnata-br-rj Linux User: 475399 http://www.aprendendolinux.com/ http://www.facebook.com/PortalAprendendoLinux http://youtube.com/aprendendolinux/ http://twitter.com/aprendendolinux/ __ Participe do Grupo Aprendendo Linux http://listas.aprendendolinux.com Ou envie um e-mail para: aprendendolinux-subscr...@listas.aprendendolinux.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-portuguese-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e50de.80...@linuxadmin.com.br
MIlennium lista 01
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Gnome 3
Merhaba,Bilgisayarıma Debian 'ın son sürümü 7.7 'yi yükledim. Ancak grafik ekran donanımı yetersiz olduğundan gnome3 yüklenemedi mesajı çıktı. Masaüstü bilgisayarımın donanımı biraz eski .özellikleri Pentium E2180 2.0 Ghz ve RAM 2GB. Harici ekran kartım yok. Oyun da oynamıyorum. Acaba ilave RAM ve harici ekran kartı mı alayım? yoksa gnome 2 gibi daha düşük masaüstü arayüzü mü yükleyeyim? Ne öneririsiniz?Teşekkür ederim
Re: Gnome 3
Mate masaustu kullanmanizi oneririm On 02/12/2014 2:40 pm, Yılmaz TÜfekçi ytufek...@yahoo.com.tr wrote: Merhaba, Bilgisayarıma Debian 'ın son sürümü 7.7 'yi yükledim. Ancak grafik ekran donanımı yetersiz olduğundan gnome3 yüklenemedi mesajı çıktı. Masaüstü bilgisayarımın donanımı biraz eski .özellikleri Pentium E21802.0 Ghz ve RAM 2GB. Harici ekran kartım yok. Oyun da oynamıyorum. Acaba ilave RAM ve harici ekran kartı mı alayım? yoksa gnome 2 gibi daha düşük masaüstü arayüzü mü yükleyeyim? Ne öneririsiniz? Teşekkür ederim
Re: Gnome 3
Merhaba, Giris seviyesi harici ekran karti isinizi gorecektir. Original Message Subject: Gnome 3 From: Yılmaz TÜfekçi To: Debian CC: Merhaba, Bilgisayarıma Debian 'ın son sürümü 7.7 'yi yükledim. Ancak grafik ekran donanımı yetersiz olduğundan gnome3 yüklenemedi mesajı çıktı. Masaüstü bilgisayarımın donanımı biraz eski .özellikleri Pentium E21802.0 Ghz ve RAM 2GB. Harici ekran kartım yok. Oyun da oynamıyorum. Acaba ilave RAM ve harici ekran kartı mı alayım? yoksa gnome 2 gibi daha düşük masaüstü arayüzü mü yükleyeyim? Ne öneririsiniz? Teşekkür ederim
Re: Gnome 3
Selam, On 02-12-2014 14:37, Yılmaz TÜfekçi wrote: Merhaba, Bilgisayarıma Debian 'ın son sürümü 7.7 'yi yükledim. Ancak grafik ekran donanımı yetersiz olduğundan gnome3 yüklenemedi mesajı çıktı. Sorunun donanım yetersizliği olduğuna nasıl karar verdiniz? Masaüstü bilgisayarımın donanımı biraz eski .özellikleri Pentium E21802.0 Ghz ve RAM 2GB. Harici ekran kartım yok. Sizinkine yakın özelliklerde bir makinede (Core 2 Duo T5450 - 1.66 GHz, 1GB RAM, dahili ekran kartı) sorunsuz kullanıyor(d)um Gnome3'ü. Başka bir sorun olabilir mi? -- Selçuk Mıynat -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-turkish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e20c5.6050...@gmail.com
Stale file in Debian after change of equivs package
Hi! I am using equivs to create simple packages with dependencies and a few files. Now I removed one file from the equivs package and installed the resulting deb file. The deb file does not contain the file but dpkg did not remove the old file and says that the file belongs to the package. What did I do wrong? Example - Old package: $ dpkg-deb -c package1.deb /etc/test1.conf $ dpkg -L package1 /etc/test1.conf New package: $ dpkg-deb -c package1.deb /etc/test2.conf $ dpkg -L package1 /etc/test2.conf /etc/test1.conf TIA mad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547d72e7.1070...@sharktooth.de
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tuesday 02 December 2014 07:05:09 Patrick Bartek wrote: User's do contrain. They even dictate. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. What customers?? This is open source. Developers do not need, if they do not want to, to take any notice of anyone but themselves. They do not need customers. This is the basic misconception. Developers do not need us, the users. We need them. This is NOT a business. It will go out of business (having not been one in the first place) not if it loses all its users (who are NOT customers) but if it loses all its developers. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201412020856.07499.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
Hi guys Not for me but interesting. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg1MDQ -- Maderios -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547d8aa7.2070...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Le Mon, 01 Dec 2014 13:45:12 -0500, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net a écrit : Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: I fear that once systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian as the default init more distros will follow suit, and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Just to be clear... you're saying that Slackware, Gentoo, and their derivatives are not distros of merit? Or, for that matter, BSD and illumos derivatives? Did you saw that a co-founder of FreeBSD is proposing to switch to a system very similar to systemd? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg0ODE -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202114915.5b7c7...@soldur.bigon.be
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 11:49:15AM +0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote: Le Mon, 01 Dec 2014 13:45:12 -0500, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net a écrit : Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: I fear that once systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian as the default init more distros will follow suit, and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Just to be clear... you're saying that Slackware, Gentoo, and their derivatives are not distros of merit? Or, for that matter, BSD and illumos derivatives? Did you saw that a co-founder of FreeBSD is proposing to switch to a system very similar to systemd? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg0ODE I surely did - In fact posted it here almost a week ago, for some reason, didn't get posted. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202114456.GA27172@stephen-desktop
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Le Mon, 1 Dec 2014 23:05:09 -0800, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com a écrit : On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: [snip] as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any. As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Well according to the following wikipedia page, Patrick Volkerding (Slackware founder) has not completely ruled you systemd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202130423.3b09a...@soldur.bigon.be
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 02/12/14 00:52, lee wrote: snipped WoW Whatever ... You should have snipped your own posts to begin with. Anyway, you didn't contribute anthing to what the OP said, and I don't find this part of the discussion worthwhile at all. Then why are you persisting with it? -- Tony van der Hoff | mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org Ariège, France | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dac72.7080...@vanderhoff.org
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: [snip] as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any. That do not include systemd as a package. As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Um, I've heard that said before - but I like to check my facts (especially when issues are emotive, *and* when outside parties may have an interest in creating dissension and disorder), so I've read Patrick's opinions[*1]. He's never said that (though I'd welcome an authoritive correction). Understandably cautious for someone who manages a huge workload almost single-handedly. He has said he intends to remain with the current init system - that he likes some of the abilities of systemd, and that one day he may move to systemd.[*1] Which is not close to absolutely refuses to use systemd. [*1]:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce have their freedom of choice constrained by users. I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to do anything other than destroy, given that the user has a choice. User's do constrain. Within some limits (e.g. if the developer cares primarily about the users i.e. if the main motivation is not to scratch an itch). And that few users can agree on what they want except on a few minor points, it is an impossibility to extrapolate constrain to define individually defined outcomes. When users dictate often times the constraint results only in the destruction of that which the dictators hoped to shape. They even dictate. Some times. The most vocal minority demand - I see little evidence that does anything but the opposite of what they expect. Sadly many believe that criticism is a right, and also something for which they are owed. Like similar behavior in restaurants it's ultimately unhealthy for the consumer unless done carefully, politely, and with the full understanding of possible reactions from the producers. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. Sound practice in commercial enterprise - not in FOSS. And even in commerce the business that's wise recognises it can't please everyone so it allocates resources in the most profitable manner - which means it never satisfies all possible customers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Depends on what you mean by distros of merit. Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros besides Jessie were using systemd as the default: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the system is running. It will soon be possible to choose before installation. And always a reboot is Mandatory to me would imply you cannot change it at all. Ever. The system wouldn't work if you did. But we know that is not the case. More importantly it depends on whether using default as a measure of support for your argument(?) is relevant. Fedora 15, RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server. Just read today OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too. Haven't checked. So, 9 total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list. Assuming your best intentions - that you meant supported, it's a *much* longer list. A shorter list is those distributions that *do not* include systemd. I meant those distros that install systemd as the init at install time. Which is default and mandatory. I don't now the answer (either way) - though I'd be interested in knowing (CoreOS?). I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian. Debuan, I think it's called. A novel fork in that it appears to focus more on raising money than producing code, and that it's developers are anonymous. An interesting concept for a FOSS project. Aside from those peculiarities (and the hype associated
Re: Creating a peculiar Live-CD
Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Sb, 29 nov 14, 16:46:01, Richard Owlett wrote: Application 2: Extremely secure browsing and email for me on my personal machine. https://tails.boum.org/ I wasn't thinking in terms of personal privacy, but what I think of as system security. My *personal idiosyncratic* views of system security include (but not limited to): 1. preventing others on the network executing code on my machine and/or reading/writing writing my files. Good iptables probably adequate. 2. Explicit control of when or if a program may access the network - functionality similar to COMODO for Windows machines. I've heard augments that such are unnecessary, BUT it is a *SPECIFICATION* of my goal. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547db7f9.8060...@cloud85.net
Re: bind9 needs sometimes a restart after resume from suspend
Hi On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 03:26:29PM +0100, Rainer Dorsch wrote: On Sunday 30 November 2014 11:59:16 Karl E. Jorgensen wrote: Hi On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:26:36PM +0100, Rainer Dorsch wrote: Hi Pascal, On Sunday 30 November 2014 11:15:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote: Hello, Rainer Dorsch a écrit : I run bind9 locally and noticed that bind9 sometimes needs a restart after suspend. Why ? Not running, not resolving, errors... ? bind9 does not respond. See e.g. the dig command from my previous post blackbox:~# dig heise.de ^Cblackbox:~# That was well hidden :-) Any related messages in /var/log/daemon.log ? Indeed there are a number of entries in there, these are the entries right after restart: Nov 30 10:10:49 blackbox named[24198]: clients-per-query decreased to 12 Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox console-kit-daemon[2055]: WARNING: Error waiting for native console 56 activation: Resource temporarily unavailable Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox named[24198]: validating @0xb3f5c0d0: . NS: got insecure response; parent indicates it should be secure Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox named[24198]: error (insecurity proof failed) resolving './NS/IN': 192.168.178.1#53 Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox named[24198]: error (network unreachable) resolving './NS/IN': 2001:503:c27::2:30#53 Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox named[24198]: managed-keys-zone: No DNSKEY RRSIGs found for '.': success Nov 30 10:10:50 blackbox named[24198]: validating @0xb3a00018: . NS: no valid signature found [snipped more of the same] These messages dont look abnormal - in fact they seem to indicate proper operation. But after restart when bind9 is working, I still see similar entries: Nov 30 15:19:40 blackbox named[2322]: validating @0xb4072230: . NS: got insecure response; parent indicates it should be secure Nov 30 15:19:40 blackbox named[2322]: error (insecurity proof failed) resolving './NS/IN': 192.168.178.1#53 [similar messages snipped] Going back to your original symptom: bind not responding... It looks like bind is at least *alive*. I wonder... What exactly does bind not responding mean? any command that reproduces that would be handy. As this is happening in relation to suspend/resume, this would imply that network interfaces go down and up too. So perhaps bind is failing to detect the re-arrival of network interfaces? The output of a command like sudo netstat -nlp | grep bind while bind is not responding would be instructive. And then compare/contrast with the scenario of a working bind... Hope this helps -- Karl E. Jorgensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202130714.GA32322@hawking
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Laurent Bigonville bi...@debian.org wrote: Le Mon, 1 Dec 2014 23:05:09 -0800, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com a écrit : On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: [snip] as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any. As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Well according to the following wikipedia page, Patrick Volkerding (Slackware founder) has not completely ruled you systemd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption Hmm. So I do a web search on Patrick Volkerding systemd and find he's tweeted twice about systemd in the last four tweets. One was a bit of an enigmatic tweet about crying into his coffee when he read boycottsystemd.org and realized he wasn't reading the Onion. https://twitter.com/volkerdi/status/460102616991547393 The other was a re-tweet from Kiki Novak. https://twitter.com/kikinovak/status/535861951642210304 FWIW -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43ip2ukmt-p3vppv4czjtvsnz+rnywbtsvgctl0-pt4f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Le 02.12.2014 08:05, Patrick Bartek a écrit : and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce have their freedom of choice constrained by users. I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to do anything other than destroy, given that the user has a choice. User's do contrain. They even dictate. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. Really? Tss... How many projects have you, as a user, constrained to do something? Being commercial or not... You may had some success in commercial softwares, because of contracts, but for small projects, or projects were the developpers are not paid, when they only contribute because they wan't to use it, but without having to suffer some bug or another, or with a feature they would like to have, I sincerely doubt you had constrained anyone. Honestly... if you want to constrain people on their spare time, if you want to remove us the last part of fun we can have in programming, then... well, people wont listen you, to stay polite. And it's normal. Open source developpers are not all paid for what they do. Only a minority is, and in this minority, I am not sure that the bigger part actually live from open source softwares. Of course, programming is just one of the various possible contributions to a project. But, most open source project starts by pure code and/or software engineering steps (most, because not games, for example, and there are probably some other around), and by that first base of code might, or might not, have contributions on other subjects (which are important too, I do not deny that. Even knowing that someone tried what you did may be a contribution which helps to continue working). But, maybe you know about a project which started by bug reports or translations on an empty codebase? Not a game, of course, that kind of projects definitely needs lots of very various skills. It may be why there are not a lot of pure FOSS games of high quality (I mean, there are many of them, but I feel like the ratio, when compared to other softwares, is by far lower that the same ratio in closed source world. Oh, and I mean graphical games, of course, not ascii ones): it does need by far more different skills than to build, say, a text editor. Oh. And, you forgot something. FOSS developpers are the users of their work, unlike in commercial softwares. And it changes *a lot* of things, if not everything. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f1a2fd0a224376265f2137f548c5c...@neutralite.org
Re: XDG Standard is not evil (was: Re: Why focus on systemd?)
Le 28.11.2014 15:32, Rusi Mody a écrit : However there are some issues: if the software-versions in these dont match up then its precisely these XDG files that tread on each others' toes across OSes. Well... if configuration files are not both upward and downward compatible between different versions, which could be both major, minor, Ubuntuesque or googlesque (yes, I do think that Ubuntu and chrome/firefox version schemes are stupid) I do not see where is the problem. After all, why, in the first time, do you need on the same computer different versions of the same software, if not for testing/development purposes? And in those purposes, you probably know how to change the default directory, right? On correct softwares, there is a command-line option for that, like -c, --config, or sometimes -C. No issue for me here but... One solution that Ive been toying with is as follows: 1. Have one real My-home partition 2. Keep /home as part of the OS-file system, so that each OS can mess around with its own 'XDG's' I wonder if people have tried this (or something similar) and any downsides Here, you know, you could be smarter. XDG directories are defined by environment variables. So, why not using, for example, in you .profile, something like this: $cat ~/.profile #!/bin/sh case $( grep PRETTY_NAME /etc/os-release |cut -f2 -d'' ) in Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid) XDG_FOOBAR_STUFF=~/.config/jessie *) echo hey, I have no idea what distro this is? esac But, of course, it won't work with, for example, vim, bash, and plenty of softwares which... DO NOT respect XDG things. Oh, and I used /etc/os-release, which is not always present because... it's a part of XDG, AFAIK. But, you can do this by grepping/sedding in some mount on labels or whatever trick you want to identify the system on which you actually are. This is clean, and efficient. Far better that what you could achieve *without* XDG. Yes, I like xdg, between other reasons because it does not impose things: good softwares (for example, i3) allows the user to choose, if he want or not to use XDG. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/457101a6a693f20b243e931a9d3ed...@neutralite.org
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: [snip] as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any. That do not include systemd as a package. As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Um, I've heard that said before - but I like to check my facts (especially when issues are emotive, *and* when outside parties may have an interest in creating dissension and disorder), so I've read Patrick's opinions[*1]. He's never said that (though I'd welcome an authoritive correction). Understandably cautious for someone who manages a huge workload almost single-handedly. He has said he intends to remain with the current init system - that he likes some of the abilities of systemd, and that one day he may move to systemd.[*1] Which is not close to absolutely refuses to use systemd. [*1]:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ Let's quote a little bit more of that, just for completeness: -- ... Whether we end up using them or not remains to be seen. It's quite possible that we won't end up having a choice in the matter depending on how development that's out of our hands goes. It's hard to say whether moving to these technologies would be a good thing for Slackware overall. Concerning systemd, I do like the idea of a faster boot time (obviously), but I also like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, and I'm guessing that's what most Slackware users prefer too. I don't spend all day rebooting my machine, and having looked at systemd config files it seems to me a very foreign way of controlling a system to me, and attempting to control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon flies in the face of the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well. ... -- That, and some tweets that are more recent than this interview, leaves me with a slightly different impression than neutral wait-and-see. [...] -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iP4nqA=JMzpN1Oawo7rSdS8FQXwszRH8HzubjCv=gg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Creating a peculiar Live-CD
Scott Ferguson wrote: On 30 November 2014 at 02:30, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Scott Ferguson wrote: On 29 November 2014 at 08:17, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: On 11/28/14, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: snipped chuckle I've just proved ( again ;/ ) that my writing lacks clarity. It's hard to describe a custom live CD in a single, small post. Not really. I did it in a single sentence - see 3rd sentence down. How you want to achieve something?? Not what (objectives) - which you have expanded on in a subsequent reply to Curt. I'm still not clear on why. Except for one, I don't think the why's are describable - too much intertwining of several years of personal projects. Why climb a mountain - because it's there may be the best answer. This may be an xy problem - certainly based on the expanded objectives placing a script in /etc/rc.local to do what you describe is not the solution - nor is placing it in init. I believe Curt has the right idea - [snip] Existence of kiosk CD's demonstrate what I want is doable. [snip] Network/Internet restriction policy. If you have a LAN that these users will be connected to - the best option IMO is to restrict browing at the access point using white lists (or blacklists if you enjoy playing pop-a-mole). Dans Guardian (for squid) is ideal. If that's not possible and you need to apply internet access control at the local box level (LiveCD or HDD) the simplest approach for an unskilled admin is to install either:- ;Parental Control GUI (which uses tinyproxy and Dans Guardian) https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol/ ;WebCleaner http://webcleaner.sourceforge.net/ ;privoxy (it's in the Debian repository). That looks promising. Dependant on what you mean by anything else... find out where anything else is triggered and remove the trigger. Ugh ;/ That's shutting the barn door Don't install door in first place. I have no idea what you are trying to say there. Could you expand on that please. E.G. I have one case where I want internet access via a serial modem only, therefore there will be no Ethernet nor WiFi drivers installed/installable (no apt/Synaptic/etc). Somewhat brute force but effective [rather significant side effects ;] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547dcf42.8050...@cloud85.net
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/02/2014 at 07:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the system is running. It will soon be possible to choose before installation. And always a reboot is (I presume this was truncated somehow?) Do you have a citation for this? The last I saw on that subject was when Jonas Smedgaard CCed debian-devel on a post to bug #668001, in the ensuing discussion of which Cyril Brulebois said that [1] I've already mentioned that having debootstrap stop pulling an init system might make sense at some point. In the meanwhile, debootstrap is not going to receive any patching in the dependency resolving area. and that [2] the decision was made that no, it won't be touched for jessie which sounds to me as if such a change is not going to happen soon. [1] 20141125173133.gk6...@mraw.org [2] 20141125185048.gf3...@mraw.org -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Laurent Bigonville bi...@debian.org wrote: Le Mon, 1 Dec 2014 23:05:09 -0800, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com a écrit : On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: snipped As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Well according to the following wikipedia page, Patrick Volkerding (Slackware founder) has not completely ruled you systemd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption Hmm. So I do a web search on Patrick Volkerding systemd and find he's tweeted twice about systemd in the last four tweets. One was a bit of an enigmatic tweet about crying into his coffee when he read boycottsystemd.org and realized he wasn't reading the Onion. https://twitter.com/volkerdi/status/460102616991547393 Enigmatic? Doesn't seem difficult to understand. Patrick has a very dry sense of humor and is fond of satire. For those that haven't read it The Onion is a satirical site (and a good one)[*1]. When I first looked at the boycottsystemd site I thought it was someone sending up the anti-system extremists - then I realised they were serious. Patrick cried in his coffee when he realised boycottsystemd was *not* a satire. (is that less enigmatic for you?) The response to the comments on it would be whoosh. [*1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Onion http://www.theonion.com/ Example of the sort of The Onion article that makes it easy to facepalm at boycottsystemd:- *Girl Scouts To Sell Cookies Online* Good. This should help some of the shyer girls become more comfortable talking to strangers online.” He seemed pretty non-enigmatic here to:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ snipped Kind regards -- Just because somebody hears something you say, or reads something that you write, doesn’t mean you’ve reached them. With reading comprehension being what it is in the U. S., you can safely toss that one out the window. If you want to judge by the listening habits of people who buy records, the first thing they do is put it on and talk over it ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQMjAvTpditYvb=EXMjVzZ_XqM2RhjN7yNAEzE5hL=5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 3 December 2014 at 01:18, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: snipped As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. snipped He's never said that (though I'd welcome an authoritive correction). Understandably cautious for someone who manages a huge workload almost single-handedly. He has said he intends to remain with the current init system - that he likes some of the abilities of systemd, and that one day he may move to systemd.[*1] Which is not close to absolutely refuses to use systemd. [*1]:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ Let's quote a little bit more of that, just for completeness: Did you read what you are responding to - or what you've just quoted?? -- ... Whether we end up using them or not remains to be seen. It's quite possible that we won't end up having a choice in the matter depending on how development that's out of our hands goes. It's hard to say whether moving to these technologies would be a good thing for Slackware overall. Concerning systemd, I do like the idea of a faster boot time (obviously), but I also like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, and I'm guessing that's what most Slackware users prefer too. I don't spend all day rebooting my machine, and having looked at systemd config files it seems to me a very foreign way of controlling a system to me, and attempting to control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon flies in the face of the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well. ... -- That, and some tweets that are more recent than this interview, leaves me with a slightly different impression than neutral wait-and-see. [facepalm] [...] -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. Brilliant satire(?) Kind regards -- Let's not be too rough on our own ignorance; it's what makes America great! ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqnqtg2wypyw7wgtv92c4rvh10j+c9d_t+j1wxzqdjj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 3 December 2014 at 01:36, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 12/02/2014 at 07:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the system is running. It will soon be possible to choose before installation. And always a reboot is (I presume this was truncated somehow?) Yes, sorry. Flat battery - resumed from Draft and missed that. Should have been:- And always a reboot is necessary after installation - so a preseed/late_command will allow you to boot for the first time into non-systemd system. preseed/late_command=in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core A simple bash script makes rebuilding an install CD to include that preseed parameter a simple - quick process for those that want to use the GUI install option. Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) snipped the decision was made that no, it won't be touched for jessie which sounds to me as if such a change is not going to happen soon. That I strongly suspect is correct - but not for the same reasons. snipped Kind regards -- Being cynical is the only way to deal with modern civilization — you can't just swallow it whole ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQMVCimPeA13jDxJ3X�gtlmzzegsyzb4tc+8cyawy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: XDG Standard is not evil (was: Re: Why focus on systemd?)
Le 27.11.2014 03:04, Serge a écrit : Later some people started to abuse those directories and put there files, that never supposed to be there. Those people don't really think about standards or unification. Usually they just enable displaying hidden files in their file manager, see a lot of dotfiles in a home directory and think that this is wrong. They start searching how to fix this, find xdg basedir-spec, and use it as an excuse for moving ~/.appname files, to ~/.config/appname, or worse, split them among .config, .local, .cache... If only rogues can put their configuration files in a subdirectory of a common directory, then every application is a rogue, since all applications put their configuration files in the $HOME directory or any of it's subdirectories. The point is that, applications using $HOME instead of $XDG_CONFIG_HOME does not only put their configuration there, but all their files. So, thanks to those ones, you will have things like: .bashrc, .bash_history, .dmenu_cache, .prxAEIHar (try to guess what's this file? I myself have no idea... reading it, it seems it's related to xosview?) etc. Ok, now, you only want to save your configuration files. Which ones will you take? Or, for a reason you want to use an application which is not installed on your system, but in a remote file system that you can't access everytime. If this application puts everything in $HOME, then you'll have useless things on your local machine, but if it uses XDG directories, you can mount/bind/whatever the distant directory to a point in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. Another nice thing: Imagine I use several softwares which are not pieces of an existing monolithic DE. Imagine I would like to write an application to manage configuration of those applications I am using. I will probably have to use the strategy design pattern[1] because configuration formats will differ (key=value in INI-style way, xml-erk-style format...) and have plug-ins to manage those formats, but there are quite common ways, easy to parse, like good ol' INI (like gftp, but you'll probably find many others lying around on your own computer), or ugly (my opinion) XML. Ok, so, we sometimes have common formats, which might be used by several applications I use. So, maybe we could find some which shares common features? Like, for example, binding a shorcut to open a file (pretty common, right?) or move your character in an FPS game? For this, I could ask my plug-ins to extract, in all configuration files of $XDG_CONFIG_HOME, everything which looks like being able to open a file (some regexes on the key's name should do the work in many cases), and refer the folder's name which contains the files to identify which software uses it. Then, I could ask the user if he want to define a new shortcut for some specified set of applications (or to all? Why not?). Ok, then, now, the user can have a way to configure everything on his computer, without those applications having been written to be integrate in any DE. Of course, DEs can use it too, but, I made the choice to not use such things, because I think that there is too much bloat. This would be harder, by far, if every application just puts things, sometimes in $HOME/.application, or $HOME/.application.conf, or $HOME/.application/config or $HOME/.application/application.config (not to speak about those nasty rc files!). Last but not least, it means that one could write a library to manage configuration files, which could be reused, because things goes in some predefined places, in a predefined order. No need to learn that .bash_profile is read before .profile... oh, sorry, bash does not uses XDG dirs. So, I can see advantages. Several ones. I'll try to find the problems now: the application have to be made correctly enough to not trust the content of an environment variable, because it may try to trick the software, for buffer overflows, code injections, or less dangerous things like behavior changing depending on the moment, if the application re-read the environment variable. That's all I can find. They don't think about /etc/xdg, they don't read FHS or other XDG standards, Well... honestly, I would not follow FHS blindlessly, obviously. Because, well... it does not works on Microsoft Windows, first, which is a widely used system, and I prefer to make things portable (so I would use a different mechanism on windows than on Debian to read default configuration files) plus, FHS is not followed in the same way everywhere: in *BSD, I think the softwares you will install through the package manager will not go into /usr/bin, but in /usr/local/bin. On some linux distro, it may go in /opt. How could I know? Even UNIX-style OSes disagree! About other XDG standards, well... I do not have to use dbus stuff to know what directory I should use to store my specific user's configuration, right? they don't care about people who have to do 2-4 times more
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
Le 20.11.2014 22:26, Scott Ferguson a écrit : On 21/11/14 06:45, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Scott Ferguson a écrit : Might be worth fscking the disk first in case that's where the problem lies. Why ? fsck works on filesystems, not disks or partition tables. Good question - because I didn't spend much time thinking about it, or, because I haven't used ms-dos partition tables for a very long time? :/ Regardless - maybe badblocks would be a better way of checking if the problem is a result of damage to where the E(P)BRs are written? Certainly simpler than examining the E(P)BRs for errors which would be my next course of action if I had no backups of the disk. (I suspect) There are at least two possible scenarios(?) which would result in a problem that the OP is experiencing[*1]:- ;the OP accidentally overwrote an EBR i.e. created another extended partition at some later point (1st sector of the extended partition?) ;a damaged sector containing an EBR In the first case parted rescue may/should be able to fix the problem. The OP could probably get more info by checking the E(P)BRs. The problem 'might' be in the first or last E(P)BR (again, I 'suspect' Martin is right about the looping) Perhaps (from unreliable memory):- dd if=/dev/sdc bs=512 count=1 skip=22026238 | hexdump -C likewise with the last extended partition, and then the same on the E(P)BRs 'might' show the error? I note that's a lot of suspicions, mights, and guesses - but again, I welcome input and correction. [*1] I'm guessing, and welcome input - as I suspect would the OP An interesting problem, sadly the person most likely to know the answer hasn't been seen on the lists for some time. Kind regards First, sorry for delay and thanks for replies. I won't have time to fix this for now, I will try to find time ASAP. Not that I really mind the data which were on that disk, but it will allow me to tinker with partition tables and such things on which I do not have a good knowledge. I had even no idea that logical partitions were a chained list, but now that you say it, it makes sense. Also, what is EBR (or EPBR, which seems to be some sort of enhanced whatever may be a EBR)? To fix things, I tried to take a look at testdisk, which was able to find partitions. Lot of them, in facts, included lot of... removed partitions (I did a lot of experiments on that disk before). Plus, I have no idea about how to ask it (testdisk) to fix, apply things? Any document about how to use it? Not the man, I already have read it, and it's plain useless. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e68e09075ad78cad0db7cb232b53f...@neutralite.org
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
On 02/12/2014 20:48, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: [cut] Also, what is EBR (or EPBR, which seems to be some sort of enhanced whatever may be a EBR)? Extended Boot Record on DOS disks ? Where information about extended partition is stored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_boot_record To fix things, I tried to take a look at testdisk, which was able to find partitions. Lot of them, in facts, included lot of... removed partitions (I did a lot of experiments on that disk before). Plus, I have no idea about how to ask it (testdisk) to fix, apply things? Any document about how to use it? Not the man, I already have read it, and it's plain useless. I think you read French, if not the page is available in English too. http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_FR It's from TestDisk author. Hope it helps. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e0491.7080...@googlemail.com
Re: Stale file in Debian after change of equivs package
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, mad wrote: I am using equivs to create simple packages with dependencies and a few files. Now I removed one file from the equivs package and installed the resulting deb file. The deb file does not contain the file but dpkg did not remove the old file and says that the file belongs to the package. What did I do wrong? Files in /etc are usually conffiles, which are not removed on upgrade by default. Presumably equivs is following standard practice, and marking them as such unless you do work to avoid it. If removal is what you want, see dpkg-maintscript-helper's rm_conffile for code which will enable you to safely remove the conffile. [Alternatively, if this is a private package, and you're sure that test1.conf will never be needed, you can unconditionally remove it in the new version's .postinst or similar.] -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com Any excuse will serve a tyrant. -- Aesop -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202171135.gw22...@teltox.donarmstrong.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On 12/02/2014 04:47 AM, maderios wrote: Hi guys Not for me but interesting. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg1MDQ # More about the vision This is just a start, as bold as it sounds to call it fork, at a process that will unfold in time and involve more people, first to import and change Debian packages and later on to maintain them under a separate course. To help with this adventure and its growth, we ask you all to get involved, but also to donate money so that we can cover the costs of setting the new infrastructure in place. https://devuan.org/donate.html So kiddies, be sure to send in your checks and money orders so you can all put your money where your mouth is. cackles Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e0f8f.3030...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Wed 03 Dec 2014 at 02:27:26 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) You do us a service by raising this. We are lead to believe there is a huge number of people who want to preseed d-i to have a clean install. Not one person on -user or -devel has indicated any success with using the patch or given any detail which would allow anyone to follow in their footsteps and test it. Why not? Is it so difficult? Is it beyond the capabilities of a user with technical skills? Looks like half an hour's work to me. Those who have a vested interest in the issue seem reluctant to turn apparently works into does work or does not work. Until we get some testing and substantial feedback, using this patch to beat the anti-systemd drum should be seen as noise. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202193623.go3...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/02/2014 02:34 AM, Stephan Seitz wrote: Debian has kindled a big fire with this systemd crap. It’s time to jump ship before you only have ashes. Shade and sweet water! Stephan yes! Yes! RUNAWAY!! slaps helmet :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e153c.6080...@gmail.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:47:19 +0100 maderios mader...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys Not for me but interesting. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg1MDQ It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it forced upon me this way. These guys should have kept working on Debian and made sure every package is compatible with whichever init system we choose. Too bad, it won't happen. DI doubt very much that Devuan will last. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlR+I7QACgkQG4/m5fHE0bIT2QCgt6f0QoKy6+/B+5PXhAMHvYnn NgQAn2t8efLZS023AL7VQtneY0qozwpr =oJXc -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 09:40:20PM +0100, Märk Owen wrote: It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it forced upon me this way. # apt-get install upstart # apt-get install sysvinit-core # apt-get install openrc No one is forcing you to stick with systemd. The fork is just silly. -- . o . o . o . . o o . . . o . . . o . o o o . o . o o . . o o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o pgpUp3YHpJVru.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:22:13 -0700 Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it forced upon me this way. # apt-get install upstart # apt-get install sysvinit-core # apt-get install openrc No one is forcing you to stick with systemd. The fork is just silly. Another way to look at it is forward planning for the release after Jessie, when systemd may well become compulsory... Cheers, Ron. -- To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. -- George Santayana -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141202184738.61518...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Brian wrote: On Wed 03 Dec 2014 at 02:27:26 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) You do us a service by raising this. We are lead to believe there is a huge number of people who want to preseed d-i to have a clean install. Not one person on -user or -devel has indicated any success with using the patch or given any detail which would allow anyone to follow in their footsteps and test it. Why not? Is it so difficult? Is it beyond the capabilities of a user with technical skills? Looks like half an hour's work to me. Those who have a vested interest in the issue seem reluctant to turn apparently works into does work or does not work. Until we get some testing and substantial feedback, using this patch to beat the anti-systemd drum should be seen as noise. Well, actually, it does involve a little more than downloading debootstrap, applying the patch, and compiling. One has to build a custom copy of d-i to actually make use of it. That's bit of a complicated procedure. Personally, I'd rather wait for the installer team to fix a bug that has rather broad implications. I also seem to recall seeing at least one report of someone who'd done the test. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e34ae.6010...@meetinghouse.net
Re: bind9 needs sometimes a restart after resume from suspend
Karl E. Jorgensen wrote: I wonder... What exactly does bind not responding mean? any command that reproduces that would be handy. As this is happening in relation to suspend/resume, this would imply that network interfaces go down and up too. So perhaps bind is failing to detect the re-arrival of network interfaces? The output of a command like sudo netstat -nlp | grep bind while bind is not responding would be instructive. And then compare/contrast with the scenario of a working bind... I think that is a good debugging direction. For reasons I haven't looked into BIND will bind to specific addresses. There is always 127.0.0.1:53. Plus there will be one for each interface. Try: $ netstat -na | awk '$NF==LISTEN/:53/' With this example output from a system. tcp0 0 192.168.2.34:53 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN tcp0 0 127.0.0.1:530.0.0.0:* LISTEN tcp6 0 0 :::53684:::*LISTEN tcp6 0 0 :::53 :::*LISTEN It may be that something is dropping the network offline and the suspend-resume is simply cycling the network off and on again and restoring the network connection. Maybe the root cause isn't BIND but rather that the network has gone offline. $ ip addr show | awk '$1==inet' inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo inet 192.168.2.34/24 brd 192.168.230.255 scope global br0 I would also want to know what is in /etc/resolv.conf to know if it is configured for the local nameserver. And also what hosts entry is listed in /etc/nsswitch.conf to see how it is configured. $ grep nameserver /etc/resolv.conf nameserver 127.0.0.1 $ grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf hosts: files dns Lastly this *shouldn't* be related to any DNS lookups but the contents of /etc/hosts is the files part in the above. It is possible that contents of /etc/hosts might be confusing the issue of thinking bind isn't working properly. Shouldn't be since it apparently works after a suspend-resume but mentioning it here for completeness anyway. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
Hello I have a problem with jessie : my Acer Travelmate (P253) refuses to boot. I have used 2 methods : 1- install wheezy, all is ok, I boot and boot again. I change it to jessie (following standard instructions) : I can boot no more 2- I have used net installer debian-jessie-DI-b2-amd64-netinst.iso . Same problem. There is no message, but it seems that the HDD is not seen and the PC tries to boot on the network. I have repeated many times the problem, so I suppose it is not a mistake of mine. I think that it did boot correctly with wheezy, but a regression in jessie creates the problem. 1- what am I missing ? 2- if it is a bug, in what package should I declare it ? I am willing to help to fix the bug, if any. Thank you in advance Pierre Couderc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e3cc1.5030...@couderc.eu
Re: Stale file in Debian after change of equivs package
Don Armstrong wrote:
mad wrote:
I am using equivs to create simple packages with dependencies and a few
files.
Now I removed one file from the equivs package and installed the
resulting deb file. The deb file does not contain the file but dpkg did
not remove the old file and says that the file belongs to the package.
What did I do wrong?
Files in /etc are usually conffiles, which are not removed on upgrade by
default. Presumably equivs is following standard practice, and marking
them as such unless you do work to avoid it.
Likely. If so you can test for this by querying the package database.
dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}\n' foopackagenamehere
That will list out the files from that package along with the checksum
of it. If you want a full dump from the system then don't specify a
package name. But then better page it or grep for just what you
want. I have 121 of them on my system from various packages.
dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}\n' | grep obsolete
Bob
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Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
Am Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2014, 18:47:38 schrieb Renaud OLGIATI: On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:22:13 -0700 Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it forced upon me this way. # apt-get install upstart # apt-get install sysvinit-core # apt-get install openrc No one is forcing you to stick with systemd. The fork is just silly. Another way to look at it is forward planning for the release after Jessie, when systemd may well become compulsory... Or going beyond what is offered in Debian… like making GNOME installable without having any systemd related package installed. I.e. making: merkaba:~ LANG=C apt-get purge systemd Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: amor analitza-common blinken cantor cantor-backend-kalgebra filelight kaccessible kalgebra kalgebra-common kalzium kalzium-data kanagram kbruch kcharselect kcolorchooser kde-config-cron kde-icons-mono kdeaccessibility kdeadmin kdeartwork kdeartwork-style kdeartwork-theme-window kdeartwork-wallpapers kdeedu kdeedu-kvtml-data kdegraphics kdegraphics-mobipocket kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer kdegraphics-thumbnailers kdemultimedia kdenetwork kdenetwork-filesharing kdetoys kdeutils kdf kgamma kgeography kgeography-data kgpg khangman kig kiten klettres klettres-data kmag kmousetool kmplot kolourpaint4 kppp krdc kremotecontrol krfb kruler ksaneplugin kscd kstars kstars-data ksystemlog kteatime ktimer ktouch ktouch-data kturtle ktux kuser kwordquiz libanalitza5abi1 libanalitzagui5abi1 libanalitzaplot5abi1 libkdeedu-data libkeduvocdocument4 libkiten4abi1 marble pairs parley parley-data plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba print-manager qtdeclarative4-kqtquickcharts-1 rocs step Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED: colord* gvfs* gvfs-backends* gvfs-daemons* hplip* hplip-gui* k3b* k3b-i18n* kde-full* kde-plasma-desktop* kde-plasma-netbook* kde-standard* libpam-systemd* libvirt-daemon-system* network-manager* packagekit* packagekit-tools* plasma-nm* plasma-widget-networkmanagement* policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome* polkit-kde-1* printer-driver-postscript-hp* systemd* systemd-ui* udisks2* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 26 to remove and 0 not upgraded. After this operation, 57.9 MB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] work. And well systemd-shim and cgmanager *are* installed. But that would be the bigger work… as it needs patching of upstream projects *or* implementing the required functionality elsewhise. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3665370.lq8Inphs2e@merkaba
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 06:47:38PM -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: Another way to look at it is forward planning for the release after Jessie, when systemd may well become compulsory... Most would call that FUD. -- . o . o . o . . o o . . . o . . . o . o o o . o . o o . . o o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o pgph4NmlzHiM5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Getting a custom package into a new system early in the install process
I have a customized package, adduser, that I want to get into new VM's early in the wheezy installation process. In particular, it must happen before installing the debian basic system tools (DBST hereafter) recommended when the installer gets to task selection. The modified adduser tweaks the UID/GID assignments and the DBST installation creates some of those incorrectly. The rest of this message gives some approaches I've thought of and problems with each. My first thought was that I could point the installer at the host machine and have a thin cache there that would use my adduser if asked for that, and otherwise forward requests to somewhere else. But the closest thing I've found is that I could set up an alternate repository with the package.(1) Unfortunately, debootstrap only can use one repository (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=76). At task selection the regular apt mechanisms may be in use, in which case adding repositories to sources.list would work. How could I intervene to modify the sources.list in time? Alternately I could take an installer disk image and modify it. I've been using netinst, which I don't think has many (any?) regular debs on it, as opposed to udebs. Perhaps I should try some fatter image and tweak the archive. It's also possible that if I skipped even the base packages at the task step things would be OK. I know that if I debootstrap a system and avoid installing extras the result is OK (i.e., not IDs allocated in a way that conflicts with my desired scheme). But it's not clear how I could install those packages later; the list of tasks under aptitude does not include a base packages task. Maybe it's all essential packages? Thanks for any help. Ross Boylan (1) And presenting a merged view of a synthetic repository with one package replaced would be tricky, because various master files would need to be different from upstream to avoid security problems with the modified package. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAK3NTRBnOve7jfA0wwa-EYrZpiGu_iSysRAHS2WZepyv=fz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue 02 Dec 2014 at 16:52:46 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Wed 03 Dec 2014 at 02:27:26 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) You do us a service by raising this. We are lead to believe there is a huge number of people who want to preseed d-i to have a clean install. Not one person on -user or -devel has indicated any success with using the patch or given any detail which would allow anyone to follow in their footsteps and test it. Why not? Is it so difficult? Is it beyond the capabilities of a user with technical skills? Looks like half an hour's work to me. Those who have a vested interest in the issue seem reluctant to turn apparently works into does work or does not work. Until we get some testing and substantial feedback, using this patch to beat the anti-systemd drum should be seen as noise. Well, actually, it does involve a little more than downloading debootstrap, applying the patch, and compiling. One has to build a custom copy of d-i to actually make use of it. That's bit of a complicated procedure. Why does debootstrap have to be downloaded and a custom copy of d-i built? Suppose the patch were applied to debootstrap in a running d-i. Why wouldn't that be sufficient for testing? That's a straightforward technical question, incidentally. Personally, I'd rather wait for the installer team to fix a bug that has rather broad implications. In other words, you'd rather not know whether the patch works (whether the procedure is complicated or not). It cannot be that important to you then. I also seem to recall seeing at least one report of someone who'd done the test. Not what I would call substantial feedback. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02122014222318.249335dea...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
Brian wrote: On Tue 02 Dec 2014 at 16:52:46 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Wed 03 Dec 2014 at 02:27:26 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) You do us a service by raising this. We are lead to believe there is a huge number of people who want to preseed d-i to have a clean install. Not one person on -user or -devel has indicated any success with using the patch or given any detail which would allow anyone to follow in their footsteps and test it. Why not? Is it so difficult? Is it beyond the capabilities of a user with technical skills? Looks like half an hour's work to me. Those who have a vested interest in the issue seem reluctant to turn apparently works into does work or does not work. Until we get some testing and substantial feedback, using this patch to beat the anti-systemd drum should be seen as noise. Well, actually, it does involve a little more than downloading debootstrap, applying the patch, and compiling. One has to build a custom copy of d-i to actually make use of it. That's bit of a complicated procedure. Why does debootstrap have to be downloaded and a custom copy of d-i built? Suppose the patch were applied to debootstrap in a running d-i. Why wouldn't that be sufficient for testing? That's a straightforward technical question, incidentally. Also a straightforward technical question: How would one actually do that? It looks to me like d-i starts up, then pulls in debootstrap and starts it running. I've spent a little bit of time looking at how d-i figures out where to look for debootstrap, and got to the point of concluding that I either had to put the patched debootstrap in the repo (not going to happen) or build a customized d-i that looks for the patched debootstrap somewhere else. That's the point at which I decided that, not being much of a c coder, I really didn't want to mess with things. If you have a straightforward suggestion, please Personally, I'd rather wait for the installer team to fix a bug that has rather broad implications. In other words, you'd rather not know whether the patch works (whether the procedure is complicated or not). It cannot be that important to you then. No... I kind of figure that deboostrap should actually work properly, and that as a core piece of system code, the maintenance team should care enough to actually fix this kind of bug. It was sitting there long enough. That, in itself, is a datapoint for me in making decisions about future reliance on Debian. I also seem to recall seeing at least one report of someone who'd done the test. Not what I would call substantial feedback. True enough. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e4d20.6000...@meetinghouse.net
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 23:27:13 +0100 Pierre Couderc sent: 1- install wheezy, all is ok, I boot and boot again. I change it to jessie (following standard instructions) This may not help at all because things may have changed in the last couple of months, but I'll give it a larrup. I don't know what the standard instructions are? If you can install wheezy with a minimum install, no packages other than what you need to get a bootable system, and you're doing a net install. By only installing the minimum packages on the install of wheezy, you don't get a lot of stuff left behind from the change to jessie. On the reboot ***after*** removing the CD/USB stick or whatever, just go into your /etc/apt/sources.list and change every instance of wheezy to jessie. Save the file and the do an apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. When this is complete and everything is configured. Reboot. Should then be fine. Like I say: if nothing has changed in the last couple of months since I installed a jessie system on a clean machine. This way has always worked for me in the past, but your mileage may vary. Best of luck, Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** Be true to your work, your word, and your friend. ..Henry David Thoreau *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141203111731.5301c791@taogypsy
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue 02 Dec 2014 at 18:37:04 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Tue 02 Dec 2014 at 16:52:46 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Wed 03 Dec 2014 at 02:27:26 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) You do us a service by raising this. We are lead to believe there is a huge number of people who want to preseed d-i to have a clean install. Not one person on -user or -devel has indicated any success with using the patch or given any detail which would allow anyone to follow in their footsteps and test it. Why not? Is it so difficult? Is it beyond the capabilities of a user with technical skills? Looks like half an hour's work to me. Those who have a vested interest in the issue seem reluctant to turn apparently works into does work or does not work. Until we get some testing and substantial feedback, using this patch to beat the anti-systemd drum should be seen as noise. Well, actually, it does involve a little more than downloading debootstrap, applying the patch, and compiling. One has to build a custom copy of d-i to actually make use of it. That's bit of a complicated procedure. Why does debootstrap have to be downloaded and a custom copy of d-i built? Suppose the patch were applied to debootstrap in a running d-i. Why wouldn't that be sufficient for testing? That's a straightforward technical question, incidentally. Also a straightforward technical question: How would one actually do that? I think I asked my question first. :) It looks to me like d-i starts up, then pulls in debootstrap and starts it running. I've spent a little bit of time looking at how Debootstrap only runs when the base system is installed. I assume it runs whatever is in /usr/sbin and /usr/share/debootstrap. Now - what happens if you alter these files before installing the base system? d-i figures out where to look for debootstrap, and got to the point of concluding that I either had to put the patched debootstrap in the repo (not going to happen) or build a customized d-i that looks for the patched debootstrap somewhere else. That's the point at which I decided that, not being much of a c coder, I really didn't want to mess with things. If you have a straightforward suggestion, please Debootstrap is mainly a bunch of scripts. The patch is applied to the scripts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/03122014002004.ff86083b4...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
Le 03/12/2014 01:17, Charlie a écrit : Thank you very much ! On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 23:27:13 +0100 Pierre Couderc sent: 1- install wheezy, all is ok, I boot and boot again. I change it to jessie (following standard instructions) This may not help at all because things may have changed in the last couple of months, but I'll give it a larrup. I don't know what the standard instructions are? This is exactly what you say above. If you can install wheezy with a minimum install, no packages other than what you need to get a bootable system, and you're doing a net install. I did that : only standard utilities. Boot and reboot, and rereboot to be well sure. By only installing the minimum packages on the install of wheezy, you don't get a lot of stuff left behind from the change to jessie. On the reboot ***after*** removing the CD/USB stick or whatever, just go into your /etc/apt/sources.list and change every instance of wheezy to jessie. I did that. Save the file and the do an apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. When this is complete and everything is configured. I did that. But I had to repeat the upgrade operation many times until I get a clear system with no more packet loaded with the last upgrade. Reboot. :( Should then be fine. :( :( Like I say: if nothing has changed in the last couple of months since I installed a jessie system on a clean machine. This way has always worked for me in the past, but your mileage may vary. As I imagine this has been tested thousand times in the world , I thnk this may be a problem due my particular computer. And I would like to report it as a bug. But I do not know in which package : grub-common ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e6f90.5060...@couderc.eu
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 03:04:00 +0100 Pierre Couderc sent: Save the file and the do an apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. When this is complete and everything is configured. I did that. But I had to repeat the upgrade operation many times until I get a clear system with no more packet loaded with the last upgrade. Strange indeed. Update, so I have found, is only one pass. Upgrade is also only one pass, unless you do apt-get dist-upgrade after upgrade. That will often bring in new packages or want to remove some. If your bandwidth drops out or is particularly slow you might need to upgrade a couple of times, but you should get a message that the server wasn't found or lost etc.. I have never had your problem? But then things might have changed recently, and I don't have to install any Debian system for anyone at the moment so can't test it. Have you tried a different mirror? I sometimes need to do that because there is work being done on the one I use and it delivers an error message telling me that the packages aren't signed? Or just wait. Otherwise my apologies for I have no idea what else might be the matter. Hope you can resolve it or someone who actually has some idea about what's causing this speaks up. Be well, Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** In the midst of this chopping sea of civilized life, such are the clouds and storms and quicksands and thousand-and-one items to be allowed for, that a man has to live, if he would not founder and go to the bottom and not make his port at all, by dead reckoning, and he must be a great calculator indeed who succeeds. .Henry David Thoreau *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141203162415.05d5b4dd@taogypsy
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
Le 03/12/2014 06:24, Charlie a écrit : On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 03:04:00 +0100 Pierre Couderc sent: Save the file and the do an apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. When this is complete and everything is configured. I did that. But I had to repeat the upgrade operation many times until I get a clear system with no more packet loaded with the last upgrade. Strange indeed. Thank you Charlie, But as I did all on correctly - I hope -, I think that this is a bug linked to my own computer. So I want to declare it and my question is : where ? If I get no better answer, I sall declare it in grub-common -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547ea8c0.9010...@couderc.eu
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
Sent this to Pierre's private mail first. Sorry. Hi Pierre, you might want to dig further into this, as I can't see how a developer could fix the error you are experiencing without more information. Have you tried chrooting into the unbootable system from an install cd's rescue mode? Is there anything suspicious in the logs? When exactly does the boot-up stall? You don't even see the GRUB menu, do you? Have you tried with another boot loader? Last time I installed, LILO was still available for selection from expert install iirc. If the system boots with LILO, you would have narrowed down the problem quite a bit. If you do get to GRUB but booting fails afterwards, you can try adding debug flags to your kernel options, see: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/boot_debugging This link is for Arch, so be careful, not every last bit also applies to Debian, but it was the most comprehensive guide I could find now. Again, I don't think filing a bug without any info but it doesn't work will get your problem solved. Good luck, Simon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547eb486.20...@gmail.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
Le 02/12/2014 23:15, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : Am Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2014, 18:47:38 schrieb Renaud OLGIATI: On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:22:13 -0700 Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a waste. They shouldn't have left. I'm pretty neutral about systemd as I'm only an end user but I disklike having it forced upon me this way. # apt-get install upstart # apt-get install sysvinit-core # apt-get install openrc No one is forcing you to stick with systemd. The fork is just silly. Another way to look at it is forward planning for the release after Jessie, when systemd may well become compulsory... Or going beyond what is offered in Debian… like making GNOME installable without having any systemd related package installed. The systemd package is just a small part of systemd. I'd like to remove systemd-logind and lbpam-systemd, sinc I have no clue at all that logind is better deisgned and programmed than resolved, which showed it was designed without any care for well known attacks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547ebd24.4010...@rail.eu.org
Re: boot fails on jessie on Acer Travelmate
Le 03/12/2014 07:58, Simon Hollenbach a écrit : Sent this to Pierre's private mail first. Sorry. Hi Pierre, you might want to dig further into this, Mmm, what is my other choice ? W8 ? Ubuntu ? as I can't see how a developer could fix the error you are experiencing without more information. But I am ready to spend hours to fix that ! Wht is needed ? Have you tried chrooting into the unbootable system from an install cd's rescue mode? Is there anything suspicious in the logs? Yes, I can read files from a mive CD. What log shold I search ? When exactly does the boot-up stall? You don't even see the GRUB menu, do you? I am not sure what is the grub menu, but if it is the blue menu asking which debian version to load. I do not arrive there. In fact, it seems to me that the disk is not read, but it tries to net boot. Have you tried with another boot loader? Last time I installed, LILO was still available for selection from expert install iirc. If the system boots with LILO, you would have narrowed down the problem quite a bit. No, sorry, I am not enough expert. If this is a regression in GRUB, it must be solved, one way or another. Debian wheezy works fine on this computer. Jessie has worked too, but no more today. If you do get to GRUB but booting fails afterwards, you can try adding debug flags to your kernel options, see: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/boot_debugging This link is for Arch, so be careful, not every last bit also applies to Debian, but it was the most comprehensive guide I could find now. I do noth think I go up to grub, but I thnk that something is grub broken by the installation of jessie. Again, I don't think filing a bug without any info but it doesn't work will get your problem solved. I am not able to find the bug myself. I am ready to spend hours to fix it, but I need the help of someone to tell me where to search... Thank you Simon PC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547ec225.7070...@couderc.eu
