date:20141211

El Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:30:57 +0100, Maykel Franco escribió:

(ese html...)

 Hola buenas, quiero realizar un filtro en apache pero no se si realmente
 se puede. Por ejemplo esta url:
 
 https://www.example.com
 
 Quiero que si se le pasa un parámetro, devuelva la pagina bien:
 
 https://www.example.com/?embed=true

 Y si no se lo pasas o le pasas otro parámetro, que devuelva un forbidden
 u otra pagina:
 
 https://www.example.com
 
 https://www.example.com/testloquesea
 
 Se podría realizar con alguna expresión regular?

Sí, claro (p. ej., con mod_rewrite) pero vas a tener que hacer unas 
cuantas probatinas hasta dar con la tecla. Yo siempre tiro de Google para 
ver ejemplos de expresiones regulares.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.14.41...@gmail.com

Re: una de wheeze

El Wed, 10 Dec 2014 16:59:52 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 señores tengo un debian 7.7 , y cada que quiero instalar un paquete me
 sale :
 
 E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
 
 he googleado , pero no encuentro nada relacionado a wheeze

El error no es exclusivo de Wheezy.

Manda (o sube a www.pastebin.com) la salida completa de apt-get -f 
install.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.14.47...@gmail.com

[OT] Re: Donde estudiar Debian para obtener la certificación LPI?

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 01:48:58 -0300, Gustavo Vega escribió:

(ese html...)

 Antes que nada perdón por usar la lista por asuntos de esta índole.

Pues le pones un OT y listo ;-)

 Quiero hacer un curso de Linux y obtener la certificación LPIC-1 y
 LPIC-2.

(...)

¿Y qué relación le ves a esas certificaciones con Debian? 

En cualquier caso, piensa si no te sería más rentable ir por libre, si 
llevas usando Linux durante algún tiempo los dos primeros niveles no 
deberían presentarte muchos problemas.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.14.50...@gmail.com

RE: Donde estudiar Debian para obtener la certificación LPI?

2014-12-11 Thread Frank Harbey Sanabria Florez

TE podria servir los cursos de Youtube:

Basico: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyLcPK3h0D7B6VltdexP0Og3HSj9y9t8d
Medio: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyLcPK3h0D7AHB-Tyvu6kHF9jyXDiXqaJ

FRANK HARBEY SANABRIA FLOREZTecnologo en Telecomunicaciones y Sistemas
Bogota - Colombia@franksanabria
sugeek.co




Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 09:44:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Donde estudiar Debian para obtener la certificación LPI?
From: pablocar...@gmail.com
To: gnv...@gmail.com; debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org



2014-12-11 1:48 GMT-03:00 Gustavo Vega gnv...@gmail.com:
Antes que nada perdón por usar la lista por asuntos de esta índole.

Quiero hacer un curso de Linux y obtener la certificación LPIC-1 y LPIC-2.
Estoy entre Linux College ( http://www.linuxcollege.com.ar/index.htm ) y CLA ( 
http://www.linuxinstitute.com.ar/curso/dlse )
El CLA es a distancia, pero sale menos de la mitad que el de Linux College.
También está Educación IT, que ya hice un  curso ahí pero no me gusto.
Quería saber cual me recomiendan o si tienen referencias de alguno de esos 
lugares o si cursaron en alguno de esos u otros.
Vivo en Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Desde ya muchas gracias.


Gustavo.




Yo conozco educación it, y no lo recomiendo en lo mas mínimo. Tenia pensando en 
algún momento ponerme a estudiar en proydesa o algo por el estilo. Pero a nivel 
curso no se aprende en ningún lado mejor que en un centro de formación 
profesional. Y son títulos oficiales. Lo que si no se si hay alguno que enseñe 
lo que vos queres. Yo con tu experiencia me pondría a leer el material que anda 
dando vuelta y me prepararía laburando de esto como sea posible. La verdad que 
para adquirir esos conocimientos si no tenes que ponerte con eso es difícil. 
Leyendo y practicando es quizás la manera mas fácil. 


-- 
Pablo

Re: una de wheeze

2014-12-11 Thread Gustavo Castro

no estoy entendiendo de donde sacas ese java8? que repositorio te lo 
esta dando, los de debian no lo tiene? o es un archivo que descargastes? 
ese archivo no tiene extencion .sh? si es asi la instalacion no se hace 
de esa manera


./oracle-java8-installer

si es de extensión .deb usa dpkg
dpkg -i oracle-java8-installer
http://bitelia.com/2014/02/instalar-paquetes-deb-con-dpkg

El 11/12/14 a las #4, ricky gutierrez escribió:

El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 3:07, Manolo Díaz
diaz.man...@gmail.com escribió:

Todas esas utilidades que mencionas usan finalmente dpkg. Si falla esta
última poco importa cuál uses.

la verdad es que esta instalacion es fresca y quiero instalar el java
en wheeze , cuando lo trato de instalar termina con el error arriba
mencionado , vuelvo a postear el mensaje

  apt-get -f install oracle-java8-installer
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
oracle-java8-installer is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 10 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
Setting up oracle-java8-installer (8u25+8u6arm-1~webupd8~1) ...
Downloading Oracle Java 8...
--2014-12-11 08:17:29--
http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
Resolving download.oracle.com (download.oracle.com)... 23.201.103.137,
23.201.103.154
Connecting to download.oracle.com
(download.oracle.com)|23.201.103.137|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Moved Temporarily
Location: 
https://edelivery.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
[following]
--2014-12-11 08:17:30--
https://edelivery.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
Resolving edelivery.oracle.com (edelivery.oracle.com)... 23.60.6.140
Connecting to edelivery.oracle.com
(edelivery.oracle.com)|23.60.6.140|:443... failed: Connection refused.
download failed
Oracle JDK 8 is NOT installed.
dpkg: error processing oracle-java8-installer (--configure):
  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
  oracle-java8-installer
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)


Y, por favor, dejad de responder encima. Es incómodo leer la respuesta
antes que la cuestión que la motiva.


aptitude update  aptitude full-upgrade
no tienes dependencias rotas?

lo he ejecutado pero sin suerte

Setting up libisc84 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up libdns88 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up libisccc80 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up libisccfg82 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up libbind9-80 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up liblwres80 (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up bind9-host (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up host (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Setting up dnsutils (1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u3) ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
  oracle-java8-installer
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
A package failed to install.  Trying to recover:
Setting up oracle-java8-installer (8u25+8u6arm-1~webupd8~1) ...
Downloading Oracle Java 8...
--2014-12-11 08:24:02--
http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
Resolving download.oracle.com (download.oracle.com)... 23.201.103.154,
23.201.103.137
Connecting to download.oracle.com
(download.oracle.com)|23.201.103.154|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Moved Temporarily
Location: 
https://edelivery.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
[following]
--2014-12-11 08:24:02--
https://edelivery.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/jdk/8u25-b17/jdk-8u25-linux-i586.tar.gz
Resolving edelivery.oracle.com (edelivery.oracle.com)... 23.60.6.140
Connecting to edelivery.oracle.com
(edelivery.oracle.com)|23.60.6.140|:443... failed: Connection refused.
download failed
Oracle JDK 8 is NOT installed.
dpkg: error processing oracle-java8-installer (--configure):
  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
  oracle-java8-installer



Esa es, digamos, la conclusión final. Entre las líneas que no mandas
debe haber una explicación más extensa de lo que ha sucedido.

En estos casos suele ser útil buscar entre los informes de fallo de
Debian. Puedes encontrar cosas como esta:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=768651


voy para halla,

sldss

http://gnuforever.homelinux.com





--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489b374.3090...@esdebian.org

Re: una de wheeze

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:30:07 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 3:07, Manolo Díaz
 diaz.man...@gmail.com escribió:

 Todas esas utilidades que mencionas usan finalmente dpkg. Si falla esta
 última poco importa cuál uses.
 
 la verdad es que esta instalacion es fresca y quiero instalar el java en
 wheeze , cuando lo trato de instalar termina con el error arriba
 mencionado , vuelvo a postear el mensaje
 
  apt-get -f install oracle-java8-installer
 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state
 information... Done oracle-java8-installer is already the newest
 version.
 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 10 not upgraded.
 1 not fully installed or removed.
 After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
 Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y Setting up oracle-java8-installer
 (8u25+8u6arm-1~webupd8~1) ...
   ^^^

 Downloading Oracle Java 8...

(...)

Huy, huy, huy... para, para. 

Ese paquete *no es de/para Debian*, si quieres usar el java de Oracle en 
lugar del java que hay en los repos oficiales mejor que lo bajes de su 
web y lo instales según sus instrucciones.

De todas formas, te da un error 404 con la URL, nada grave.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.15.19...@gmail.com

fglrx-driver

Hola Comunidad, para preguntarles de algun FAQ para poder instalar el
driver privativo para mi laptop, el modelo de mi tarjeta es Radeon HD 7310
y estoy usando Debian Jessie. (fglrx). He intentado instalarlo pero siempre
me marca error el xorg de screens not found y de ahi no paso, en stable
hice el procedimiento que viene en la wiki y funciona correctamente, pero
al hacerlo en Jessie no funciona.

Gracias y agradecere sus comentarios.

Saludos.

$ cat /etc/issue
Debian GNU/Linux 8 \n \l

$ lspci |grep VGA
00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
Wrestler [Radeon HD 7310]

Re: fglrx-driver

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:39:36 -0600, AbeL escribió:

(ese html...)

 Hola Comunidad, para preguntarles de algun FAQ para poder instalar el
 driver privativo para mi laptop, el modelo de mi tarjeta es Radeon HD
 7310 y estoy usando Debian Jessie. (fglrx). He intentado instalarlo pero
 siempre me marca error el xorg de screens not found y de ahi no paso, en
 stable hice el procedimiento que viene en la wiki y funciona
 correctamente, pero al hacerlo en Jessie no funciona.

¿Qué paquete has instalado, el de Debian o el del fabricante?

Revisa el registro del Xorg (/var/log/Xorg.0.log) pero es posible que 
el paquete esté roto por algún cambio del kernel y lo tengan que 
actualizar algo bastante común con los drivers que dependen de que se 
mantenga la compatibilidad ABI.

Mira también por los bugs que haya abiertos, quizá encuentres algo que te 
sirva:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=nosrc=fglrx-driver

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.17.00...@gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

Gracias por la pronta respuesta, de hecho te comento que he instalado los 2
drivers, el que viene en los repositorios, e incluso el del fabricante,
pero en ambos me manda error. no se si alguien haya instalado el driver en
Debian Jessie?

Saludos.

2014-12-11 11:00 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:39:36 -0600, AbeL escribió:

 (ese html...)

  Hola Comunidad, para preguntarles de algun FAQ para poder instalar el
  driver privativo para mi laptop, el modelo de mi tarjeta es Radeon HD
  7310 y estoy usando Debian Jessie. (fglrx). He intentado instalarlo pero
  siempre me marca error el xorg de screens not found y de ahi no paso, en
  stable hice el procedimiento que viene en la wiki y funciona
  correctamente, pero al hacerlo en Jessie no funciona.

 ¿Qué paquete has instalado, el de Debian o el del fabricante?

 Revisa el registro del Xorg (/var/log/Xorg.0.log) pero es posible que
 el paquete esté roto por algún cambio del kernel y lo tengan que
 actualizar algo bastante común con los drivers que dependen de que se
 mantenga la compatibilidad ABI.

 Mira también por los bugs que haya abiertos, quizá encuentres algo que te
 sirva:


 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=nosrc=fglrx-driver

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


 --
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
 with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
 listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.17.00...@gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:05:30 -0600, AbeL escribió:

(corrijo el html y el top-posting)

 2014-12-11 11:00 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:
 
 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:39:36 -0600, AbeL escribió:

 (ese html...)

  Hola Comunidad, para preguntarles de algun FAQ para poder instalar el
  driver privativo para mi laptop, el modelo de mi tarjeta es Radeon HD
  7310 y estoy usando Debian Jessie. (fglrx). He intentado instalarlo
  pero siempre me marca error el xorg de screens not found y de ahi no
  paso, en stable hice el procedimiento que viene en la wiki y funciona
  correctamente, pero al hacerlo en Jessie no funciona.

 ¿Qué paquete has instalado, el de Debian o el del fabricante?

 Revisa el registro del Xorg (/var/log/Xorg.0.log) pero es posible que
 el paquete esté roto por algún cambio del kernel y lo tengan que
 actualizar algo bastante común con los drivers que dependen de que se
 mantenga la compatibilidad ABI.

 Mira también por los bugs que haya abiertos, quizá encuentres algo que
 te sirva:


 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=nosrc=fglrx-driver

 Gracias por la pronta respuesta, de hecho te comento que he instalado
 los 2 drivers, el que viene en los repositorios, e incluso el del
 fabricante, pero en ambos me manda error. no se si alguien haya
 instalado el driver en Debian Jessie?

Instalar los dos drivers te puede dar problemas.

Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.17.17...@gmail.com

Re: Donde estudiar Debian para obtener la certificación LPI?

2014-12-11 Thread Felix Perez

El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 11:59, Frank Harbey Sanabria Florez
franksanab...@live.com.co escribió:
 TE podria servir los cursos de Youtube:

 Basico:
 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyLcPK3h0D7B6VltdexP0Og3HSj9y9t8d
 Medio:
 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyLcPK3h0D7AHB-Tyvu6kHF9jyXDiXqaJ

Ya, ok, se agradece tu aporte el cual ya difundiste hace tiempo atrás,
pero por lo menos la auto publicidad en texto plano y sin top posting,
por favor.

Gracias.



-- 
usuario linux  #274354
normas de la lista:  http://wiki.debian.org/es/NormasLista
como hacer preguntas inteligentes:
http://www.sindominio.net/ayuda/preguntas-inteligentes.html


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAiZAx5HArO_mi-PBN1TX5AEbi=izjrhue-wd9bcoittz+o...@mail.gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

http://pastebin.com/nUWWxGAX

Te envio el error que manda al escribir $fglrxinfo  y el xorg.con

Saludos

2014-12-11 11:17 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:05:30 -0600, AbeL escribió:

 (corrijo el html y el top-posting)

  2014-12-11 11:00 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:
 
  El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:39:36 -0600, AbeL escribió:
 
  (ese html...)
 
   Hola Comunidad, para preguntarles de algun FAQ para poder instalar el
   driver privativo para mi laptop, el modelo de mi tarjeta es Radeon HD
   7310 y estoy usando Debian Jessie. (fglrx). He intentado instalarlo
   pero siempre me marca error el xorg de screens not found y de ahi no
   paso, en stable hice el procedimiento que viene en la wiki y funciona
   correctamente, pero al hacerlo en Jessie no funciona.
 
  ¿Qué paquete has instalado, el de Debian o el del fabricante?
 
  Revisa el registro del Xorg (/var/log/Xorg.0.log) pero es posible que
  el paquete esté roto por algún cambio del kernel y lo tengan que
  actualizar algo bastante común con los drivers que dependen de que se
  mantenga la compatibilidad ABI.
 
  Mira también por los bugs que haya abiertos, quizá encuentres algo que
  te sirva:
 
 
 
 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=nosrc=fglrx-driver

  Gracias por la pronta respuesta, de hecho te comento que he instalado
  los 2 drivers, el que viene en los repositorios, e incluso el del
  fabricante, pero en ambos me manda error. no se si alguien haya
  instalado el driver en Debian Jessie?

 Instalar los dos drivers te puede dar problemas.

 Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


 --
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
 with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
 listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.17.17...@gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

Hola de nuevo, esta completo, pero te lo paso de nuevo
http://pastebin.com/kKP0LMwX

ese xorg fue el que me creo el #aticonfig --initial

Saludos

2014-12-11 12:16 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:44:44 -0600, AbeL escribió:

 Sigues enviando los mensajes en formato HTML y haciendo top-posting ¿por
 algún motivo ? :-)

  2014-12-11 11:17 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 (...)

   Gracias por la pronta respuesta, de hecho te comento que he instalado
   los 2 drivers, el que viene en los repositorios, e incluso el del
   fabricante, pero en ambos me manda error. no se si alguien haya
   instalado el driver en Debian Jessie?
 
  Instalar los dos drivers te puede dar problemas.
 
  Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.

  http://pastebin.com/nUWWxGAX
 
  Te envio el error que manda al escribir $fglrxinfo  y el xorg.con

 El xorg.con se te ha debido de quedar atascado por el cable de
 Internet, mira a ver si le puedes dar un empujoncito a ver si sale.

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


 --
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
 with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
 listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.18.16...@gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:44:44 -0600, AbeL escribió:

Sigues enviando los mensajes en formato HTML y haciendo top-posting ¿por 
algún motivo ? :-)

 2014-12-11 11:17 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

(...)

  Gracias por la pronta respuesta, de hecho te comento que he instalado
  los 2 drivers, el que viene en los repositorios, e incluso el del
  fabricante, pero en ambos me manda error. no se si alguien haya
  instalado el driver en Debian Jessie?

 Instalar los dos drivers te puede dar problemas.

 Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.

 http://pastebin.com/nUWWxGAX
 
 Te envio el error que manda al escribir $fglrxinfo  y el xorg.con

El xorg.con se te ha debido de quedar atascado por el cable de 
Internet, mira a ver si le puedes dar un empujoncito a ver si sale.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.18.16...@gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 12:23:19 -0600, AbeL escribió:

Estooo, ¿sabes cómo enviar mensajes en formato texto plano? ¿y cómo 
responder *debajo* de los mensajes? ¿?

 2014-12-11 12:16 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

(...)

  Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.

  http://pastebin.com/nUWWxGAX
 
  Te envio el error que manda al escribir $fglrxinfo  y el xorg.con

 El xorg.con se te ha debido de quedar atascado por el cable de
 Internet, mira a ver si le puedes dar un empujoncito a ver si sale.

 Hola de nuevo, esta completo, pero te lo paso de nuevo
 http://pastebin.com/kKP0LMwX
 
 ese xorg fue el que me creo el #aticonfig --initial

Ah, no, si ese ya lo has enviado, pensaba que por el xorg.con te 
referías al archivo que te pedía /var/log/Xorg.0.log que es el que te 
falta por subir.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.18.27...@gmail.com

alguien trabajo con ffmpeg?

2014-12-11 Thread Juan Carlos Rebate

hola para quienes me recuerden soy quien preguntó como crear un repo con
dpkg-scanpackages, bueno ese tema lo dejé por imposible ya que no funciona
y no hay nada de info al respecto, esto lo quise haer porque apt no
resuelve bien las dependencias a la hora de querer instalar amano toda la
suite ffmpeg, lo bajé todo a mano y ya me funciona correcto pero ahora
tengo dudas ya que su documentación es confusa e incompleta,
1 saben si se puede emitir con varias camaras y como hacerlo? si videolan
creadora de ffmpeg tiene una utilidad de control?
2 cuantas emisiones en directo o bajo demanda podria soporta un servidor
independientemente del limite de usuarios que se coloque en el conf? cual
es el rendimiento por cada emision?
3 ya que ni ffserver ni ffmpeg tienen capacidad para trabajar con drm (ya
que no lo indica en la documentación) sabrian si se puede cifrar la
transmisión tanto directo como bajo demanda? ya que en la documentación
habla de que puede leer archivos cifrados o codificarlos pero no indica con
que sistema de cifrado puede hacerlo
4 en el caso de que se pueda emitir con varias camaras haria falta una
instancia de ffmpeg por cada camara? seria compatible esto de forma
multisistema? en fin estas son mis dudas mas apremiantes espero me puedan
ayudar porque he buscado manuales pero todos se centran en convertir
archivos y eso no es lo que deseo hacer
saludos

OT: Turla linux Debian

2014-12-11 Thread Ricardo Delgado

encontre en la web esta noticia

http://www.muylinux.com/2014/12/10/turla-malware
http://www.linux-party.com/index.php/57-seguridad/9241-linux-sufre-un-potente-troyano-turla-que-ha-infectado-gran-numero-de-victimas

pero nada especifico de como actua y que acciones tomar al respecto; o
simplemente es un FUD.

Saludos

-- 
Windows? Reboot
Debian?  beRoot 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/ca+0kpa2m0xioyydhqkpxmhsao6hmnhsyefv17ou8sgylduf...@mail.gmail.com

Re: fglrx-driver

Una disculpa,  entendi mal lo que tenia que subir, pero aqui va todo:

http://pastebin.com/ZaArCEkq

Gracias y Saludos.

2014-12-11 12:27 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 12:23:19 -0600, AbeL escribió:

 Estooo, ¿sabes cómo enviar mensajes en formato texto plano? ¿y cómo
 responder *debajo* de los mensajes? ¿?

  2014-12-11 12:16 GMT-06:00 Camaleón noela...@gmail.com:

 (...)

   Sube a www.pastebin.com el archivo completo /var/log/Xorg.0.log.
 
   http://pastebin.com/nUWWxGAX
  
   Te envio el error que manda al escribir $fglrxinfo  y el xorg.con
 
  El xorg.con se te ha debido de quedar atascado por el cable de
  Internet, mira a ver si le puedes dar un empujoncito a ver si sale.

  Hola de nuevo, esta completo, pero te lo paso de nuevo
  http://pastebin.com/kKP0LMwX
 
  ese xorg fue el que me creo el #aticonfig --initial

 Ah, no, si ese ya lo has enviado, pensaba que por el xorg.con te
 referías al archivo que te pedía /var/log/Xorg.0.log que es el que te
 falta por subir.

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón


 --
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
 with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
 listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.12.11.18.27...@gmail.com

Re: OT: Turla linux Debian

2014-12-11 Thread Gonzalo Rivero

El jue, 11-12-2014 a las 16:14 -0300, Ricardo Delgado escribió: 
 encontre en la web esta noticia
 
 http://www.muylinux.com/2014/12/10/turla-malware
 http://www.linux-party.com/index.php/57-seguridad/9241-linux-sufre-un-potente-troyano-turla-que-ha-infectado-gran-numero-de-victimas
 
 pero nada especifico de como actua y que acciones tomar al respecto; o
 simplemente es un FUD.
 
según symantec:
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2014-011316-1921-99
Systems Affected: 

Windows 2000, Windows 7, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT,
Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, Windows XP

y en la parte de detalles técnicos dice que crea cosas en el registro y
archivos en %Windir%, %System%\drivers,...
o sea...

 Saludos
 
 -- 
 Windows? Reboot
 Debian?  beRoot 
 
 




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1418330074.1636.12.ca...@gmail.com

Re: OT: Turla linux Debian

2014-12-11 Thread Manolo Díaz

El jueves, 11 dic 2014, a las 21:34 horas (UTC+1),
Gonzalo Rivero escribió:

El jue, 11-12-2014 a las 16:14 -0300, Ricardo Delgado escribió: 
 encontre en la web esta noticia
 
 http://www.muylinux.com/2014/12/10/turla-malware
 http://www.linux-party.com/index.php/57-seguridad/9241-linux-sufre-un-potente-troyano-turla-que-ha-infectado-gran-numero-de-victimas
 
 pero nada especifico de como actua y que acciones tomar al respecto; o
 simplemente es un FUD.
 

¿Qué puedes hacer, te preguntas? Echarte a temblar. Hay más
lindezas en ambos textos. Como para tomarlos en serio. 

según symantec:
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2014-011316-1921-99
Systems Affected: 

Windows 2000, Windows 7, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT,
Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, Windows XP

y en la parte de detalles técnicos dice que crea cosas en el registro y
archivos en %Windir%, %System%\drivers,...
o sea...

En cuanto a Kaspersky, tampoco encuentro ningún apunte de esos esquivos
analistas que se mencionan tan alegremente.

Saludos.
-- 
Manolo Díaz


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211221404.116dc...@gmail.com

Libc 6

2014-12-11 Thread María Rosa ☸

Hola lista: Vuelvo de nuevo a molestar porque Debian/Android me está dando
dolor de cabeza.
Tengo el bin para instalar el NDK tools para tener la arm correcta para mi
celular. Pero no la puedo instalar, me faltan librerías, que creo son
experimentales:
Cuando quiero ejecutar el dicho programa, la terminal muestra que me faltan
librerías:
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6:
version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin)
El tema es que buscando me doy con que estás librerías son inestables, si
las instalo puedo llevarme puesto el SO?
Tengo los repositores listos para agregarlos pero me da desconfianza.
¿Que hago?
Saludos.

Re: una de wheeze

2014-12-11 Thread Miguel Matos

El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 10:49, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:30:07 -0600, ricky gutierrez escribió:

 El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 3:07, Manolo Díaz
 diaz.man...@gmail.com escribió:

 Todas esas utilidades que mencionas usan finalmente dpkg. Si falla esta
 última poco importa cuál uses.

 la verdad es que esta instalacion es fresca y quiero instalar el java en
 wheeze , cuando lo trato de instalar termina con el error arriba
 mencionado , vuelvo a postear el mensaje

  apt-get -f install oracle-java8-installer
 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state
 information... Done oracle-java8-installer is already the newest
 version.
 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 10 not upgraded.
 1 not fully installed or removed.
 After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used.
 Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y Setting up oracle-java8-installer
 (8u25+8u6arm-1~webupd8~1) ...
^^^

 Downloading Oracle Java 8...

 (...)

 Huy, huy, huy... para, para.

 Ese paquete *no es de/para Debian*, si quieres usar el java de Oracle en
 lugar del java que hay en los repos oficiales mejor que lo bajes de su
 web y lo instales según sus instrucciones.

 De todas formas, te da un error 404 con la URL, nada grave.

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón

¡AHHH, con qué era eso de lo que se trataba! Ahora sí todo parece
encajar adecuadamente. Si no es mucha molestia ricky gutierrez,
¿puedes compartir primeramente el sources.list? (de preferencia, no
por pastebin, porque yo no puedo ingresar a esa web, cosas del PSI que
me habilita el Internet).

Este es parte del mío que quizás te pueda interesar:
# Repositorios no-oficiales de Java
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ raring main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ raring main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ saucy main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ saucy main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ trusty main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ trusty main

Y sí, Oracle Java 8 NO ES de Debian; pero sí se puede obtener:
$ java -version
java version 1.8.0_25
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_25-b17)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.25-b02, mixed mode)

-- 
Ayuda para hacer preguntas inteligentes: http://is.gd/NJIwRz


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/calevjms3omkxomz57ep9brxcpfnk6hzgetbmxyebomn1hbs...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Libc 6

2014-12-11 Thread María Rosa ☸

2014-12-11 20:15 GMT-03:00 María Rosa ☸ abdem...@gmail.com:

Hola lista: Vuelvo de nuevo a molestar porque Debian/Android me está dando
dolor de cabeza.
Tengo el bin para instalar el NDK tools para tener la arm correcta para mi
celular. Pero no la puedo instalar, me faltan librerías, que creo son
experimentales:
Cuando quiero ejecutar el dicho programa, la terminal muestra que me
faltan librerías:
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6:
version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by
./android-ndk-r10d-linux-x86_64.bin)
El tema es que buscando me doy con que estás librerías son inestables, si
las instalo puedo llevarme puesto el SO?
Tengo los repositores listos para agregarlos pero me da desconfianza.
¿Que hago?
Saludos.

Me contesto sola, porque ya lo solucioné creando un directorio en mi
usuario/fakeroot y extrayendo las librerías ahí, se extrajo NDK tools sin
ningun problema y hasta ahora salvé mi SO.
Seguí a esta persona que generosamente compartió su experiencia:
(Hago copy/paste para no pegar el enlace)

In my situation, the error appears when I try to run an application
(compiled on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS) using GLIBC_2.14 on Debian Wheezy (which
installs glibc 2.13 by default).

I use a tricky way to run it, and get correct result:

Download libc6 and libc6-dev from Ubuntu 12.04 LTS

Run dpkg command to install them into a directory (/home/user/fakeroot/ for
example):

$ dpkg -x libc6-dev_2.15-0ubuntu10.6_amd64.deb /home/user/fakeroot/
$ dpkg -x libc6_2.15-0ubuntu10.6_amd64.deb /home/user/fakeroot/

Run your command with specified LD_LIBRARY_PATH:

$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/user/fakeroot/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ YOUR_COMMAND

My application only uses memcpy() from GLIBC_2.14, and it works.

I don't know whether it will work successfully for other applications. Wish
it helpful.

Perdón, pero está en inglés. :(
Por si a algún usuario de Wheezy 7.7 amd64 le surge la necesidad de tener
instaladas estas librerías, puede que le funcione.
Leí que la actualización de Spotify y creo que Skype las requieren.
Saludos.
PD: La fuente:
superuser.com/questions/537683/how-to-fix-lib-x86-64-linux-gnu-libc-so-6-version-glibc-2-14-not-found

Re: una de wheeze

2014-12-11 Thread Miguel Matos

El día 11 de diciembre de 2014, 20:21, Gustavo Castro
g...@esdebian.org escribió:
 Usar repositorios de ubuntu en debian pues no es muy conveniente, aunque
 ubuntu tenga raíces las tenga en debian puede causarte problemas
 saludos
 El 11/12/14 a las #4, Miguel Matos escribió:

 ¡AHHH, con qué era eso de lo que se trataba! Ahora sí todo parece
 encajar adecuadamente. Si no es mucha molestia ricky gutierrez,
 ¿puedes compartir primeramente el sources.list? (de preferencia, no
 por pastebin, porque yo no puedo ingresar a esa web, cosas del PSI que
 me habilita el Internet).

 Este es parte del mío que quizás te pueda interesar:
 # Repositorios no-oficiales de Java
 deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ raring main
 deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ raring main
 deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ saucy main
 deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ saucy main
 deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ trusty main
 deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu/ trusty main

 Y sí, Oracle Java 8 NO ES de Debian; pero sí se puede obtener:
 $ java -version
 java version 1.8.0_25
 Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_25-b17)
 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.25-b02, mixed mode)



Cierto, cierto; pero por desgracia, es la opción más factible para
poder usar el Java de Oracle sin problemas. Digamos que el paquete
libre no da muchas satisfacciones; además de que está algo ralentizado
con lo que respecta a Java. Además, desde este se pueden instalar,
tanto la versión 7 como la 8.

-- 
Ayuda para hacer preguntas inteligentes: http://is.gd/NJIwRz


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CALEvJmTRuVJ376_UdyRuNOCMDsTW0X5UK8ys=os-bzw99ae...@mail.gmail.com

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Thursday 11 December 2014 07:22:07 Bret Busby wrote:
 Hence, is the term, in the context that it has been otherwise used in
 this thread, to refer instead, to multi-user computers, not a
 malapropism?

The original term may or may not have been a malapropism.  Let us not get into 
that.  But it is none-the-less a valid term with an accepted meaning.  

You presumably don't want me to call you an idiot?  Why not?  Because the 
accpeted meaning in modern English is not very polite.  It isn't what the 
word means in its orifins.  But it is the accepted meaning.

But this is becoming off-topic and semantic.  If it is to continue we had 
better go off-list.

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201412110807.02948.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Bret Busby

On 11/12/2014, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday 11 December 2014 07:22:07 Bret Busby wrote:
Hence, is the term, in the context that it has been otherwise used in
this thread, to refer instead, to multi-user computers, not a
malapropism?

The original term may or may not have been a malapropism. Let us not get
into
that. But it is none-the-less a valid term with an accepted meaning.

You presumably don't want me to call you an idiot? Why not? Because the
accpeted meaning in modern English is not very polite. It isn't what the
word means in its orifins. But it is the accepted meaning.

But this is becoming off-topic and semantic. If it is to continue we had
better go off-list.

Lisi

I think that I have said pretty much, all that I have to say, about
the usage of the term.

In terms of the on-topic and off-topic aspect, I believe that the
original question, was off-topic for the list, and, the original
poster in the thread, should have worded the question, so that what
exactly he was seeking, and, to excatly what he was referring, was
clear.

But, as always, others may disagree.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts,
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8MYscjNdqUh+=5hyzx1ywc06ojlolbyy1ce1c0skua...@mail.gmail.com

Re: GNU Barcodes

2014-12-11 Thread Johann Klammer

On 12/11/2014 08:10 AM, Ethan Rosenberg wrote:
 Dear List -
 
 I wish to be able to print a barcode .5 inches from top of the page and 
 centered.
 
 I generate the barcode -
 
 yes 12345 | head -84 | barcode -p 5x5.0cm -umm -e CODE39  test.ps;
 
 and print -
 
 lpr -o media=letter -#1 -P LJ1012 /var/www/test.ps -o page-top=33 -o 
 page-bottom=44 -o page-left=60 -o page-right=80
 
 The barcode is
 upside down
 not centered
 at the very top and truncated
 and multiple copies are printed.
 
 TIA
 
 Ethan
 
 
Have you ever read the story of Sysiphos?

Linux printing is similar. 
You will be digging trough several layers of abstractions. 
After finally having had a good look at cups low level driver 
interface you will find out that it's the printer driver that's at fault. 
You will notice that the driver is either closed source nad you have no 
chance of changing what's wrong, or you'll be looking at the 
drivers code but not be able to fix it, because you do not know 
your printers non-postscript internal communications protocol. 
And there's no way to find out. 
By the way you get there, you'll have wasted several weeks/months 
understanding all those shell scripts and conversions and the internals of 
the postscript interpreter(not that it would help you with the problem). 

Then, you'll go in full denial about your fruitless exploits. 

After a week you'll think it would be a fine Idea to print those 
barcodes(or some other documents)



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54895583.3060...@a1.net

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Gian Uberto Lauri

Christian Groessler writes:
   ^C could be unresponsive nevertheless, the process being stuck in kernel
   space and thus completely oblivious of the signals thrown at it.
  
  
  This would be a different problem hinting at a kernel bug...

Non necessarily a bug. We have to accept that exist atomic operations
that take more than 0 secs :).

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21641.23714.298395.350...@mail.eng.it

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Mart van de Wege

Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca writes:

 Actually, it's *always* a surprise.  These fsck happen at long enough
 intervals, that I can never know if it was 4 months ago or 7 months
 ago, and neither can I remember which laptop/desktop has the delay set
 to 172 days vs 194 days vs 98 days vs ...
 Can't you write a small script to obviate the limitations of your human
 memory, like this little hacker here did?

 No.  I'm not interested in such silly workarounds.
 It can't be that hard to make C-c work again, which is a real solution.


It's not. It's a bad workaround.

This is like all those people who first moved to Ubuntu back in the day,
complaining about not being able to login as root.

Mart

-- 
We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes.
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/86egs64nk6@gaheris.avalon.lan

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Joel Rees

2014/12/11 3:48 Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk:

 On Wed 10 Dec 2014 at 19:23:07 +0300, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote:

  On 10/12/2014 14:04, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
  
  Of course, there's also the option of completely disabling automatic
  fsck (there are several ways to do this), as I understand is the
default
  for new enough filesystems. This would make more sense for me on
systems
  with bad power (you'd still get the bad shutdown check).
 
  Yes, disabling and doing manual checks from time to time is a
  possibility, but you'd have to convince all users to hand their
  gears to an admin outside of business hours. The said admin (who
  might just bee a teacher in fact) might not be happy with the idea
  of a week-end spent at fsck'ing the world out of the compulab, just
  because of systemd. With the conditions I mentioned earlier running
  a fsck regularly is a good thing, just not being able to interrupt
  it in case of emergency isn't.

 Ever since Wheezy automatic fsck has been disabled on new installs. [...]

Odd. The last time I booted my wheezy-by-install system, it did an
automatic fsck.

I did nothing in particular to enable that.

I think you are reading things into the documentation that you want to be
there.

--
Joel Rees

Re: GNU Barcodes

2014-12-11 Thread Darac Marjal

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 01:54:08AM -0500, Ethan Rosenberg wrote:
 Dear List -
 
 I wish to be able to print a barcode .5 inches from top of the page and 
 centered.
 
 I generate the barcode -
 
 yes 12345 | head -84 | barcode -p 5x5.0cm -umm -e CODE39  test.ps;

First of all, try viewing 'test.ps' using ghostview or some other
postscript viewer. As the saying goes: Garbage In, Garbage Out. If the
postscript file isn't right, then you'll end up printing correct
garbage.

 
 and print -
 
 lpr -o media=letter -#1 -P LJ1012 /var/www/test.ps -o page-top=33 -o
 page-bottom=44 -o page-left=60 -o page-right=80

Perhaps a matter of preference here, but personally I'd endeavour to get
the margins, page size etc correct in the post script and then just pass
a whole page to the printer. In that case, use the '-g' option to
barcode to size and position the barcode, then use '-p letter' to place
the barcode on a full sheet. You could then just say lpr -P LJ1012
/var/www/test.ps.

 
 The barcode is
 upside down
 not centered
 at the very top and truncated
 and multiple copies are printed.
 
 TIA
 
 Ethan
 
 
 -- 
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject
 of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54893f90.50...@hygeiabiomedical.com
 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 15:32:55, Jape Person wrote:
 
 But that information plus the linked items (in the info output) grub-reboot
 and grub-editenv may get me started toward a solution.

I think at least some of the list subscribers would be grateful for your 
findings.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Jo, 11 dec 14, 18:16:05, Joel Rees wrote:
 
 Odd. The last time I booted my wheezy-by-install system, it did an
 automatic fsck.
 
 I did nothing in particular to enable that.
 
 I think you are reading things into the documentation that you want to be
 there.

Check filesystem creation date:

e2fsprogs (1.42~WIP-2011-07-02-1) unstable; urgency=low
...
  * Mke2fs will now create file systems that enable user namespace
  extended attributes and with time- and mount count-based file
  system checks disabled.
...
 -- Theodore Y. Ts'o ty...@mit.edu  Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:38:57 -0400


The root of my sid install was created before that, so I was still 
getting the periodic check for it. The other ext4 filesystems were 
newer, so weren't checked (and I didn't even notice it).

I've just disabled the automatic check on the root partition as well, 
but I'm considering how to implement a forced fsck every now and then, 
including an xfs partition, which wouldn't be checked at boot anyway.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: About Testing Freeze and KDE

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 23:10:36, The Wanderer wrote:
 
 IOW, if version 2.2.4 of a program is packaged, and upstream releases
 version 2.3.0 after the freeze, it might be reasonable to stick with
 2.2.4 in preparing testing for release - but if upstream releases 2.2.5
 as a bugfix release for the 2.2.x line after the freeze (even if
 upstream has not released 2.3.0 yet), shouldn't 2.2.5 be included in
 testing, as part of preparing testing for release?
 
 I think that's a reasonable sort of question. There might be solid
 answers to it, reasons why it would be better to stick with 2.2.4 rather
 than include 2.2.5 in the release, but so far I don't think the thread
 is providing them.

Because the answer depends on too many factors.

- is this really just a bug-fix release?
- how serious are the bugs being fixed?
- how intrusive are the changes?
- does the particular upstream have a good track record in such matters?
- what about the package maintainer?
- etc.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: About Testing Freeze and KDE

2014-12-11 Thread B. M.

Le 11 déc. 2014 à 11:41, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com a écrit :

 On Mi, 10 dec 14, 23:10:36, The Wanderer wrote:
 
 IOW, if version 2.2.4 of a program is packaged, and upstream releases
 version 2.3.0 after the freeze, it might be reasonable to stick with
 2.2.4 in preparing testing for release - but if upstream releases 2.2.5
 as a bugfix release for the 2.2.x line after the freeze (even if
 upstream has not released 2.3.0 yet), shouldn't 2.2.5 be included in
 testing, as part of preparing testing for release?
 
 I think that's a reasonable sort of question. There might be solid
 answers to it, reasons why it would be better to stick with 2.2.4 rather
 than include 2.2.5 in the release, but so far I don't think the thread
 is providing them.
 
 Because the answer depends on too many factors.
 
 - is this really just a bug-fix release?
 - how serious are the bugs being fixed?
 - how intrusive are the changes?
 - does the particular upstream have a good track record in such matters?
 - what about the package maintainer?
 - etc.

So it depends on the maintainer? Is there any public information about how a 
certain maintainer thinks about / handles that?


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/6fe3fc30-be4a-4fd5-a9a0-42827d64e...@gmx.ch

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Reco

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 06:16:05PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
 2014/12/11 3:48 Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk:
 
  On Wed 10 Dec 2014 at 19:23:07 +0300, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
   On 10/12/2014 14:04, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
   
   Of course, there's also the option of completely disabling automatic
   fsck (there are several ways to do this), as I understand is the default
   for new enough filesystems. This would make more sense for me on systems
   with bad power (you'd still get the bad shutdown check).
  
   Yes, disabling and doing manual checks from time to time is a
   possibility, but you'd have to convince all users to hand their
   gears to an admin outside of business hours. The said admin (who
   might just bee a teacher in fact) might not be happy with the idea
   of a week-end spent at fsck'ing the world out of the compulab, just
   because of systemd. With the conditions I mentioned earlier running
   a fsck regularly is a good thing, just not being able to interrupt
   it in case of emergency isn't.
 
  Ever since Wheezy automatic fsck has been disabled on new installs. [...]
 
 Odd. The last time I booted my wheezy-by-install system, it did an automatic
 fsck.
 
 I did nothing in particular to enable that.
 
 I think you are reading things into the documentation that you want to be
 there.

No, Brian is correct. It's a simple thing to check (up-to-date Wheezy):

$ truncate -s 1G 1.raw
$ /sbin/mkfs.ext4 1.raw
mke2fs 1.42.5 (29-Jul-2012)
1.raw is not a block special device.
Proceed anyway? (y,n) y
Filesystem label=
OS type: Linux
Block size=4096 (log=2)
Fragment size=4096 (log=2)
Stride=0 blocks, Stripe width=0 blocks
65536 inodes, 262144 blocks
13107 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user
First data block=0
Maximum filesystem blocks=268435456
8 block groups
32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group
8192 inodes per group
Superblock backups stored on blocks:
32768, 98304, 163840, 229376

Allocating group tables: done
Writing inode tables: done
Creating journal (8192 blocks): done
Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done

$ /sbin/tune2fs -l 1.raw
...
Filesystem created:   Thu Dec 11 13:47:00 2014
Last mount time:  n/a
Last write time:  Thu Dec 11 13:47:00 2014
Mount count:  0
Maximum mount count:  -1
Last checked: Thu Dec 11 13:47:00 2014
Check interval:   0 (none)
...

Reco


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211105006.ga25...@d1696.int.rdtex.ru

RE: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Bonno Bloksma

Hi,

  fsck may take time. Relax, it needs that time.

 What if I do not have that time,

 Find it (this includes planning - of infrastructure and procedures if 
 required).

Ok, so that means anyone with a nice laptop who wants to do some work just 
before boarding a plane is now at risk. 
Just had to help someone this morning who had Windows 7 doing updates when he 
shut down his laptop to board a plane. He had no time to wait, he had not 
planned on there being an interruption in the normal baviour. This morning 
his laptop would not boot.
The same can happen with normal users if we give them the new Debian Jessie 
on a laptop and they run into a similar situation where fsck will start when it 
is not a good time to do so. For whatever reason. There needs to be a non 
corrupting way to something that can last that long. 

 No other choices.
In the near future with Jessie, maybe no, but soon after that we really need 
it.

 Let fsck run and pray it does not halts claiming it can't fix the problem.
When it is started due to an unclean shutdown or something like it, we can 
plan. When it simply runs because it does that sometimes, no thank you, I 
would like a cancel option.

Bonno Bloksma


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/89d1798a7351d040b4e74e0a043c69d7a83dc...@einexch-01.tio.nl

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Ron

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 09:07:21 +0100
Mart van de Wege mvdw...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is like all those people who first moved to Ubuntu back in the day,
 complaining about not being able to login as root.

And how do you keep a multi-user box safe if any user can sudo ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
  La gloire est une affaire privée.
  -- Louis Lachenal

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211075123.43fe1...@ron.cerrocora.org

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 15:32:55, Jape Person wrote:
 
 But that information plus the linked items (in the info output) grub-reboot
 and grub-editenv may get me started toward a solution.

I just thought of a different approach, using the fact that one can 
manipulate the Maximum mount count without having to umount the 
filesystem: write a script that always sets the Maximum mount count to 
'0' or '-1' late during the boot (e.g. via rc.local or @reboot in the 
crontab).

With this one can easily trigger a manual check on the next reboot with 
a simple:

tune2fs -c 1 /dev/sdXY

and the script will reset Maximum mount count immediately after, so 
you don't get a check on every reboot ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: VPN IPSec (Cisco vpnc)

2014-12-11 Thread Frédéric Marchal

2014-12-11 8:04 GMT+01:00 Hajder Rabiee hajd...@gmail.com:
Hi

Trying to connect to VPN at work but keep getting: vpnc: no response from
target.

I have created my vpn.conf in /etc/vpnc/myconf.conf and also added Local
Port 1 as I've read some posts that the particular error message might
have to do
with a block in the firewall. Comparing with OSX - where the VPN works, the
only difference is that I have to specify a group name in Linux. I have
talked to the IT admins and gotten the correct group name. I wonder though
is the Group Password the same as the shared key? Otherwise how do I
specify it?

I followed this tutorial to connect to Palo Alto GlobalProtect using
vpnc protocol:

http://blog.webernetz.net/2014/03/31/palo-alto-globalprotect-for-linux-with-vpnc/

The group name and group password are distinct parameters. The IT
admin should give you both in addition to your own credentials.

In the case of Palo Alto, it was necessary to enable X-Auth. I don't
remember the error message I received when it was not enabled. OSX,
Android and Windows with the GlobalProtect client don't need the
X-Auth protocol. Only Linux's vpnc needs it. You may have some similar
settings on your VPN server.

I configured the vpn using the Network Manager in KDE so I don't know
about /etc/vpnc.

Make sure you are not trying to connect to the VPN server from inside
the lan. It doesn't work on my network. I can only connect from the
wan.

I also had to circumvent another problem after the connection was
established. The route to the gateway is set to 128.0.0.0/1. Half of
the internet address space is routed through the VPN tunnel. I had to
configure vpnc to ignore the default route and add my own custom
routes (I did all of this in the Network Manager). OSX and Windows
receive the correct route though. I have yet to investigate more
deeply into that problem.

Frederic

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
https://lists.debian.org/CAJ7R-8R1HLVORcnUhfrhv+xJG7E9wm3mGZUcAf_ofeBWVGbg=w...@mail.gmail.com

Re: About Testing Freeze and KDE

2014-12-11 Thread Martin Read


On 11/12/14 07:34, B. M. wrote:

Le 11 déc. 2014 à 05:10, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm a écrit :

I understood him as asking why freeze testing with a version which
excludes the latest bug fixes, when a newer version which includes them
is available. This is not the same as asking why freeze testing with a
version which is not the newest version.


That's exactly what I was asking for!


The following document:

https://release.debian.org/jessie/freeze_policy.html

explains the policy on what kinds of updates can be put into Jessie now 
that it has been frozen. The short summary is during the freeze, do not 
expect to see new versions of software in testing unless they provide 
fixes for release critical bugs *and basically nothing else*.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54898422@zen.co.uk

Re: About Testing Freeze and KDE

On Jo, 11 dec 14, 12:03:40, B. M. wrote:
 
 So it depends on the maintainer?

Not only.

 Is there any public information about how a certain maintainer thinks 
 about / handles that?

I'd be searching the archives of:

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-kde-talk
http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde-qt/

(found by searching the web for debian pkg kde maintainers)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

RE: C++ compiler g++-4.9

2014-12-11 Thread Bonno Bloksma

Hi,

 On 12/10/2014 01:23 PM, Nick Mpallas wrote:
 I am building a platform and I need to compile apache mesos from 
 sources. The issue is that the guys the require support for specific 
 c++11 features that in the 4.7 compiler currently supported by debian 
 aren't there. Will the g++ compiler will be updated?

 The versions in each release don't get updated, that's part of what makes it 
 stable.

That and the fact that Debian tries to use a version of the software that has 
been out for a while and has proven to be relative free of bugs.

 You'll need either to use jessie (that's going to be released in a couple of 
 months), or you could build an in house gcc backport (or even request one to 
 the backports team: [1])

One can even start using Jessie now if the problems that prevent releasing 
Jessie are not problems one runs into.

Bonno Bloksma

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread Marty


On 12/11/2014 02:02 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Wednesday 10 December 2014 18:08:00 Martin Read wrote:

On 10/12/14 13:26, Marty wrote:
 The industry and its plans for FOSS is strongly anti-choice:
 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.h
tml

It appears to me that you have missed a point which seems to be implied
by Lisi's choice of selective quotes.


It was certainly intended to be!


On the one hand, you say I would even deign to give users a choice in
the matter, and on the other you suggest making functionality that real
people are using on real computers go away.


Quite.  Choice means everyone must have what I want;


I think there's a group at Red Hat meeting that description. Choice for
them means, they choose, you follow. Apple, the leading vendor (I think
now having supplanted M$) leads the way, showing how it's all done on
a foundation of FOSS, and the world takes notice.

The systemd manifesto makes no mention of freedom or use choice.
Philosophy and ideology just get in the way. What's left is politics,
and marketing.

 not everyone must be

able to choose.


It was choice the brought an entire generation of users to Linux and
started the distributions, often with great expenditure of personal time
and effort. Some of us are still willing to advocate for choice as a
core principle


Infinite choice is in the end not possible.  But let us at least try to be
honest and avoid hypocrisy.


It was supposed to be a joke, so let's also not try to twist the issues
beyond recognition. There's really no good answer for anyone with 
contempt for user choice who makes a mock defense to press a point.

So yes, please he honest.


Lisi


By all means, embark on your endeavour in creating alternatives to
D-Bus. Just remember that to be a convincing alternative, it has to
solve *at least* the same set of problems.






--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548990f7.8060...@ix.netcom.com

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 10:53:07 +, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

  Let fsck run and pray it does not halts claiming it can't fix the
  problem.
 When it is started due to an unclean shutdown or something like it, we
 can plan. When it simply runs because it does that sometimes, no
 thank you, I would like a cancel option.

Then you will want to follow the advice in Comment 10 at

   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=719952


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/11122014125121.4e55d200e...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread claude juif

2014-12-11 13:41 GMT+01:00 Marty mar...@ix.netcom.com:

 On 12/11/2014 02:02 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

 On Wednesday 10 December 2014 18:08:00 Martin Read wrote:

 On 10/12/14 13:26, Marty wrote:
  The industry and its plans for FOSS is strongly anti-choice:
  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/
 2008-January/msg00861.h
 tml

 It appears to me that you have missed a point which seems to be implied
 by Lisi's choice of selective quotes.


 It was certainly intended to be!

  On the one hand, you say I would even deign to give users a choice in
 the matter, and on the other you suggest making functionality that real
 people are using on real computers go away.


 Quite.  Choice means everyone must have what I want;


 I think there's a group at Red Hat meeting that description. Choice for
 them means, they choose, you follow. Apple, the leading vendor (I think
 now having supplanted M$) leads the way, showing how it's all done on
 a foundation of FOSS, and the world takes notice.

 The systemd manifesto makes no mention of freedom or use choice.
 Philosophy and ideology just get in the way. What's left is politics,
 and marketing.

  not everyone must be

 able to choose.


 You still have choice. I mean of course distro maintainer make the choice
and you follow, and if you disagree just change your distro. If none is ok
for you, you still have the choice to build your own distro.

So Linux is a matter of choice, because you can do what you want with the
linux kernel and all free software. But you cannot do what you want with a
distro. Just because the goal of distro maintainer is to give you a stable
and easy to use Linux.

We should not be confuse about the difference between distro and Linux in
general.

It makes me think that distros tend to be like M$ :p (because most of end
users don't want to choose. They just want everything to work)


 It was choice the brought an entire generation of users to Linux and
 started the distributions, often with great expenditure of personal time
 and effort. Some of us are still willing to advocate for choice as a
 core principle

  Infinite choice is in the end not possible.  But let us at least try to be
 honest and avoid hypocrisy.


 It was supposed to be a joke, so let's also not try to twist the issues
 beyond recognition. There's really no good answer for anyone with contempt
 for user choice who makes a mock defense to press a point.
 So yes, please he honest.

  Lisi

  By all means, embark on your endeavour in creating alternatives to
 D-Bus. Just remember that to be a convincing alternative, it has to
 solve *at least* the same set of problems.





 --
 To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a
 subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
 Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548990f7.8060...@ix.netcom.com

RE: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Gian Uberto Lauri

Bonno Bloksma writes:

  Ok, so that means anyone with a nice laptop who wants to do some
  work just before boarding a plane is now at risk.

Just before boarding some plane is the bad time and place for some
work. 

  Just had to help someone this morning who had Windows 7 doing
  updates when he shut down his laptop to board a plane. He had no
  time to wait, he had not planned on there being an interruption in
  the normal baviour. This morning his laptop would not boot.

Bad timing for use of a computer. You know how it works, you know
what it can do. But you are the only one with a brain between the
ears. Start using it.

You know that Windows might download automagically updates and
that it could install them when you shutdown? 

  The same can happen with normal users if we give them the new

Maybe these normal users should be made a bit more aware of what they
do. Again, who is the one in charge because is equipped with a working
brain?

  Debian Jessie on a laptop and they run into a similar situation
  where fsck will start when it is not a good time to do so. For
  whatever reason. There needs to be a non corrupting way to
  something that can last that long.

If every child on every street, had clothes to wear and food to eat...

Things created by man do have drawbacks. It's something you can't
avoid.

   No other choices.

  In the near future with Jessie, maybe no, but soon after that we
  really need it.

I think that even more people really need some type of perpetual
motion engine...

  When it is started due to an unclean shutdown or something like it,
  we can plan. When it simply runs because it does that sometimes,
  no thank you, I would like a cancel option.

You have the option. Disable it. At your own risk.

On the other hand, the script could halt for user input. Then we will
have people complaining that they must attend the boot process.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21641.39890.538783.641...@mail.eng.it

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Wed 10 Dec 2014 at 14:22:59 -0700, Paul E Condon wrote:

 On 20141210_1830+, Brian wrote:
  On Wed 10 Dec 2014 at 19:23:07 +0300, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote:
  
   On 10/12/2014 14:04, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
   
   Of course, there's also the option of completely disabling automatic
   fsck (there are several ways to do this), as I understand is the default
   for new enough filesystems. This would make more sense for me on systems
   with bad power (you'd still get the bad shutdown check).
   
   Yes, disabling and doing manual checks from time to time is a
   possibility, but you'd have to convince all users to hand their
   gears to an admin outside of business hours. The said admin (who
   might just bee a teacher in fact) might not be happy with the idea
   of a week-end spent at fsck'ing the world out of the compulab, just
   because of systemd. With the conditions I mentioned earlier running
   a fsck regularly is a good thing, just not being able to interrupt
   it in case of emergency isn't.
  
  Ever since Wheezy automatic fsck has been disabled on new installs. For
   ^^
 
 Until I read the above, I had not realized that automatic fsck had
 been gone for so long -- and without me noticing. I suppose it is
 true, but I have no way of verifying. I know Wheezy and Jessie were
 both new installs for me because I had a very poor track record of
 doing successful dist-upgrades.

This paragraph constitutes data. It says that you have gone without an
fsck for x years without noticing anything untoward that you can ascribe
to a lack of one. It may be less detailed than a dedicated study might
want but they are valid data.

Multiply your experience by 10,000 or 100,000 similar accounts and a
picture begins to emerge and you can decide on how much confidence you
can place in a conclusion based on the accumulated data.
 
 Of course, there might have been some disastrous loss of data out
 there somewhere on someone else's computer. And that someone might not
 have realized that his data might have been saved if there had been a
 automatic fsck. If he thought about it at all, he probably just
 supposed that the disk failed 'between file checks', which had always
 been a possibility.

These are also data. It is also conjecture. It is very doubtful that
10,000 or 100,000 similar accounts would see any useful conclusion
formed.

 So the fact that there is no record of complaints
 proves nothing, one way or the other. We have no valid data, IMHO.

We have no data (valid or not) about failure. We do have data relating to
success; you added to it above. :) One single, well-substantiated
failure would be enough to cause a conclusion drawn from the record of
success to be re-examined.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/11122014125513.2457700af...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Stefan Monnier

 users equally well.  If it does, the relevance of having a ^C at boot
 time for stopping an fsck might be open to examination.

The issue goes beyond fsck.  It's important to be able to interrupt
various long-running operations (typically waiting for an event)
during boot.


Stefan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/jwv7fxyguqy.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Jape Person


On 12/11/2014 05:09 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 15:32:55, Jape Person wrote:


But that information plus the linked items (in the info output) grub-reboot
and grub-editenv may get me started toward a solution.


I think at least some of the list subscribers would be grateful for your
findings.

Kind regards,
Andrei



Tee-hee. Assuming I'm smart enough (or motivated enough) to figure it 
out. So far it looks like more than a little trouble to go through to be 
able to set up a way to manually force a boot-time fsck (without 
involving the end users).


As I may have mentioned, the command touch /forcefsck still works with 
the systemd init system, but it produces a warning in the log which 
makes me think that the function will disappear sooner or later.


Figuring this out should at least be easier than switching everybody 
over to OpenBSD or some such.


And -- if I find a means of accomplishing the goal -- I'll definitely 
post it.


Thank you again, Andrei!

Best regards,
JP


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489a4f6.8030...@comcast.net

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Stefan Monnier

 There is a sort of half-way house, whereby a second user can login
 to a workstation without the first user logging out, but the same
 keyboard and screen are used and the first user cannot do anything
 while the second user has control. I don't know how commonly used this
 is, Windows has had it for many years, but few home computers have
 enough resources to do this efficiently.

Huh?  Not only Windows but also GNU/Linux and Mac OS X have had this
for years.  And it's not particularly taxing in resources, since most of
the applications of the non active users will just be sitting idle and
can be swapped out.
IOW average PCs have been able to handle this very efficiently for years.

 Second and subsequent users have a poor 'user experience'.

Under Debian running Gnome, indeed, the experience is subpar: e.g. only
the first user logged in gets to enjoy audio output.  This bug has been
with us since Debian/Gnome started relying on pulseaudio, IIRC.
And in my experience, the Gnome lock screen has had (and still has) all
kinds of weird lockups in these kinds of situations.

IOW, the problem is that it's not tested enough.  Also, lots of
development around desktop environments have been made with brain-dead
assumptions (e.g. conflating user and administrator), forgetting
that GNU/Linux is a multi-user operating-system.
Examples go from earlier network-manager, to current pulseaudio, through
things like the mount daemon for USB drives.

 I think the main point being made is that computers are now
 sufficiently cheap that we don't have to all crowd around one machine,
 that where there are two or more people in a household who use a
 computer more than very occasionally, they will have their own
 computers.

The price of the actual device has become a non-issue to a large extent,
indeed.  But the price of real-estate has not gone down very much last
I checked, so the issue remains that it's a lot more expensive to have
room for 3 desks (with a computer and screen on each one) than to have
room for a single desk, shared by all members of the family.

So, while laptops are typically single user, if there is a desktop
computer in a home, it's almost always shared by the family members.

So far, those family members have been sufficiently undemanding that
they're willing to loginlogout every time they use the machine, but
they'd be better off never logging out and just switching between the
different users, all logged in at the same time.


Stefan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/jwv1to6gtqp.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Jape Person


On 12/11/2014 05:57 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 15:32:55, Jape Person wrote:


But that information plus the linked items (in the info output) grub-reboot
and grub-editenv may get me started toward a solution.


I just thought of a different approach, using the fact that one can
manipulate the Maximum mount count without having to umount the
filesystem: write a script that always sets the Maximum mount count to
'0' or '-1' late during the boot (e.g. via rc.local or @reboot in the
crontab).

With this one can easily trigger a manual check on the next reboot with
a simple:

 tune2fs -c 1 /dev/sdXY

and the script will reset Maximum mount count immediately after, so
you don't get a check on every reboot ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei



Whoa! And I get the answer just handed to me!

Now how am I supposed to learn anything when you just spoon-feed me?

;)

You know, I had been staring at tune2fs for a while and didn't come up 
with such a possibility -- mainly, I suppose, because I'm not used to 
using home-made scripts. I do almost everything by hand these days.


You have to love the power of scripting.

And the power of subscribing to a list with folks like you on it.

Many, many thanks, Andrei!

Best regards,
JP


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489a6aa.1050...@comcast.net

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Gian Uberto Lauri

Stefan Monnier writes:
   users equally well.  If it does, the relevance of having a ^C at boot
   time for stopping an fsck might be open to examination.
  
  The issue goes beyond fsck.  It's important to be able to interrupt
  various long-running operations (typically waiting for an event)
  during boot.

But some operations are atomic.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21641.42908.290433.745...@mail.eng.it

Re: About Testing Freeze and KDE

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 13:55:13, Bob Proulx wrote:
 When Testing is released as Stable a new name will be chosen for the
 next release and that new name will become Testing.

Minor nitpick: the names are already known, the release after Jessie 
will be Stretch and then next one Buster.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg5.html

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: How is typical home computer used today?


Bret Busby wrote:


Surely, it would have all been so much simpler, if the original poster
in the thread, had put the question To what personal uses, do people
put their computers?.


What correlation need there be between *simple* questions and 
*useful* answers?


The OP correctly phrased the question as How is typical home 
computer used today?

As I'm the OP, I should know. GRIN



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489aec9.3030...@cloud85.net

Re: How is typical home computer used today? (back to original question)

2014-12-11 Thread Miles Fidelman


Richard Owlett wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:


Surely, it would have all been so much simpler, if the original poster
in the thread, had put the question To what personal uses, do people
put their computers?.


What correlation need there be between *simple* questions and *useful* 
answers?


The OP correctly phrased the question as How is typical home computer 
used today?

As I'm the OP, I should know. GRIN


Well... not sure we're typical, then again, as others have asked, what's 
typical?  Anyway, in our home:


Context:
- house
- FIOS connectivity, WiFi to most machines, hardwired ethernet to my laptop
- Chromecast dongle on order - expect to be streaming to TV from various 
machines
- TV is digital, has a computer in it, as do various game boxes, Netflix 
via Xbox

- remote backup for all machines (CrashPlan)

Myself:

- Mac laptop used for personal and my own business
-- email, web, facebook, etc.
-- writing (MS Office)
-- bookkeeping and billpaying (Quicken, under windows, under Parallels)
-- personal files
-- games
-- remote admin of servers (servers/cluster, running in leased rack 
space - from small hosting business I used to run - now used to host 
community email lists and as a sandbox - currently Debian Linux, 
probably will become LSF, Gentoo, BSD or SmartOS shortly, maybe GNU Linux)

-- some development - mostly Linux, running in VMs, under Parallels
-- various stuff

- Windows laptop from work
-- email, web
-- ms office, sharepoint, server
-- visio

- Homebrew desktop/server sitting under my desk - usually off, use to 
play with various O/Ss


- Android Smartphone
-- email, calendar, etc.
-- web
-- various apps
-- use as hotspot when travelling

- Android Tablet - mostly use as book reader - probably will use to 
stream video to TV


Wife:

- Mac laptop
-- email, web
-- music
-- mostly personal and school use (teacher, finishing up masters)

- iPad and iPhone - the usual uses

Son #2

- Mac laptop (used to be Windows, also has a netbook floating around)
-- email, web
-- LOTS of videos
-- photo, video, and sound editing (art student and musician)

Son #1

- old laptop, variously Linux and Windows
- no longer living at home, I sometimes still provide tech support
- uses our backup service

Son #3

- Windows (school) and Mac (personal) laptops
- email, web, office - all the usual
- some sound hacking
- uses our backup service

Miles Fidelman







--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489b9a2.8090...@meetinghouse.net

Two monitors on a Matrox G450.

2014-12-11 Thread peter

A CRT monitor and an IBM flat monitor are connected to a Matrox G450  
adapter.  Both monitors display the command line interface.  With X 
running, the monitor on output 1 is active; the monitor on output 2 
indicates absence of signal.  If the monitors are swapped across the 
output connectors, output 2 continues to indicate absence of a signal 
while output 1 works.  From that I conclude that the monitors are OK.

* Do the following reports help to localize the problem to the video 
adapter or to software?  
* Failed to get size of gamma for output default?
* Other ideas?

Thanks,... Peter E.

 = 
peter@joule:~$ lspci -v -s 01:00.0
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. MGA G400/G450
 (rev 85) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Subsystem: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. Millennium G450 32Mb SDRAM Du
al Head
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 11
Memory at f200 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=32M]
Memory at fe9fc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
Memory at fe00 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8M]
Expansion ROM at fe9c [disabled] [size=128K]
Capabilities: access denied
Kernel driver in use: matrox_w1

peter@joule:~$ lsmod | grep matrox
matrox_w1  12547  0
wire   19207  1 matrox_w1
peter@joule:~$ lsmod | grep mga
mga26157  1 
drm   146387  2 mga

peter@joule:~$ xrandr
Can't open display

peter@joule:~$ xrandr -d :0
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 768
default connected 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
   1024x768   87.0*75.0 85.0 60.0 70.0  
   832x62475.0  
   800x60085.0 75.0 72.0 60.0 56.0  
   840x52560.0  
   700x52560.0  
   640x51260.0  
   720x45060.0  
   640x48085.0 75.0 67.0 60.0 73.0  
   720x40070.0 85.0  
   680x38460.0  
   640x40085.0  
   576x43275.0 70.0 60.0  
   640x35085.0  
   512x38487.0 85.0 75.0 70.0 60.0  
   416x31275.0  
   400x30085.0 75.0 72.0 60.0 56.0  
   320x24085.0  
   360x20085.0  
peter@joule:~$ xrandr -d :1
Can't open display :1

 = 



-- 
123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12
Tel +1 360 639 0202   http://carnot.yi.org/   Bcc: peter at easthope. ca


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/E1Xz5qZ-0001O0-OB@dalton.invalid

Re: how do I locate all the pictures on an Android phone?

2014-12-11 Thread Andre N Batista

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 06:05:13PM -0500, Gary Dale wrote:
 I'm running Jessie on an AMD64 system.
 
 Last night I took some pictures and tried my usual method of
 downloading - I plugged in the phone through USB and selecting File
 Manager when the notification window popped up. Navigating to
 /store_00010001/DCIM/Camera, I found a lot of pictures but not the

what happened to /sdcard/, /storage/sdcard0/?

 ones from last night.
 
 Tried again with Dolphin and got the same results.
 
 I can see the photos on my phone when I review them, along with a
 lot of others that I don't see in the file manager. Makes me wonder
 if I'm missing other pictures from earlier too.
 
 Any ideas on what's going on?

No, but how would one try to ahem _find_ for specific files on a unix
file system tree?

Have you installed either the Terminal apk or Android Debug Bridge?
 
 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:51:23 -0300
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote:

 On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 09:07:21 +0100
 Mart van de Wege mvdw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  This is like all those people who first moved to Ubuntu back in the day,
  complaining about not being able to login as root.
 
 And how do you keep a multi-user box safe if any user can sudo ?

And why anyone would configure sudo to allow any user to run any
command on behalf of any other user?
Besides, even if such broken sudo configuration is in place already,
who's forbidding one to reconfigure sudo?

Note that Ubuntu limits sudo-allows-all configuration to the first
created user by default.

Reco


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/20141211191603.ca46e9f3e51bd0507ed5c...@gmail.com

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread berenger . morel




Le 08.12.2014 18:59, Marty a écrit :

On 12/08/2014 10:43 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 08.12.2014 14:18, Marty a Ã©critÂ :

I almost tagged this off-topic but it's directed toward ordinary
Debian
users (with developer backgrounds). I first raised this on
modular-debian but I want to get some ideas from a wider audience.

I'm starting to get familiar with Plan 9 and D-Bus, to compare how
they
try to solve the same set of problems.

Plan 9 concepts attempt to solve Unix problems in a very different
way than Opendesktop.org. For people wanting to return to the
original
Unix concepts, 9p/plumber (or an updated version) seems like a
natural
fit going forward, for basic IPC purposes. 9p is already in Linux,
and
probably could be ported to the other Debian ports.

I realize I just have to convince millions of people to re-plumb
their
core OS in a short period of time, but recent history teaches us 
that

it
that this is entirely feasible! Thus emboldened, I would even deign
to give users a choice in the matter, but realistically, this would
probably be an experimental project.


You won't convince anyone if you do not build a PoC. Especially
developers giving their time literally for free.
Asking questions is a nice way to learn how you could do that PoC,
anyway. Asking and trying.


If this proves feasible, that's what I hope to do. I just want to 
know
if anyone thinks it's a good idea, before I commit time and 
resources.

My knowledge of all of the issues is sketchy at best.


Oh. Then, I doubt it's useful since my opinion is that dbus is useless 
(my opinion, which depends on my uses of my computers).

Why?
Because I do not see why my softwares should discuss between them 
without asking me.
I am ok if I explicitly plug one in another, but I do not want my 
computer to do things behind me: every time something tries to guess 
what I'm doing, it fails (speaking about that, I should learn about how 
to customize that stupid ACPI stuff to stop stopping my screen when I'm 
watching videos). I did not stopped using DEs and IDEs for nothing 
(slowdowns, crashes, losing time dragging mouse here and there to type 
text in right place, etc)...
Now... well, my opinion is that if applications have to have an IPC to 
discuss with another, then why not, but I think that the link should be 
obvious and explicit.
For example, I think dconf is stupid: you change the configuration, for 
example with a unified tool, and this affects many softwares. Why not. 
But, dbus is not needed for that: OSes are already able to send signals 
(that's how postgreSQL works to reload configuration for example).
That's how I think applications I use discuss with my window manager 
(i3): they use signals, described not by linux, but by X11 protocol. It 
works, it's lightweight, and it does not imply having a daemon for such 
a trivial thing (few lines of C does the job I guess).
If you need communication on more specialized thing (go to next song, 
send file by mail), you will anyway have to establish a real protocol, 
that emitter can build, and receiver understand.
So, having a daemon for non-specialized IPCs seems weird for me. Nice, 
you can send messages to the whole system. But, if no application minds 
about or understand your message, is not it plain stupid? Plus, it's not 
portable (anyone have seen dbus on windows? not sure, but I doubt it's 
on *BSD, too) unlike sockets.


I think sockets are good enough, and not that hard to use. Open a file 
descriptor, read, write, and close. If you need non-blocking accesses, 
then you need 3 more lines of C, that you can move into a dedicated 
function.
I do not only think, I now have a proof about that: did not used 
sockets since school (~8 years ago). Yesterday I wanted to at least 
start a project (a text editor without UI at all, like mpd is a music 
player without UI) and, in less than 4 hours, have built my own C++ 
socket class, and trivial client/server (they just send/receive, for 
now. Just a start, still have the protocol to build.) which I can reuse 
very easily for future uses.



I don't want to end up reinventing any wheels.


Forget what people says about reinventing the wheel.
It's good to so: it allows you to understand why wheels are built the 
way they are. It's thanks to someone which explained how to reimplement 
OOP features in C that I finally were able to understand my first uses 
of the C++ keyword class (I do not say that it allowed me to understand 
OOP concepts, only how, internally, a class works, which is a 
prerequisite for me to learn more things. Writing clean code have no 
link with using C, asm, or Java: it's about coding modules which 
contains functions and not whole programs. ).


But, yes, it takes time.


Could an IPC bridge/shim mechanism connect to a new IPC model while
apps
and DE's migrate from D-Bus, or support both optionally? I can see 
an

updated version of Plumber might be needed, and things might be
simplified by other

Re: how do I locate all the pictures on an Android phone?

2014-12-11 Thread Darac Marjal

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 02:32:18PM -0200, Andre N Batista wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 06:05:13PM -0500, Gary Dale wrote:
  I'm running Jessie on an AMD64 system.
  
  Last night I took some pictures and tried my usual method of
  downloading - I plugged in the phone through USB and selecting File
  Manager when the notification window popped up. Navigating to
  /store_00010001/DCIM/Camera, I found a lot of pictures but not the
 
 what happened to /sdcard/, /storage/sdcard0/?

MTP abstracts you from the details of the real filesystem. The
abstraction is managed by the Media Scanner task. Rebooting and then
waiting 10-15 minutes for the Media Scanner to do its thing might help.

 
  ones from last night.
  
  Tried again with Dolphin and got the same results.
  
  I can see the photos on my phone when I review them, along with a
  lot of others that I don't see in the file manager. Makes me wonder
  if I'm missing other pictures from earlier too.
  
  Any ideas on what's going on?
 
 No, but how would one try to ahem _find_ for specific files on a unix
 file system tree?
 
 Have you installed either the Terminal apk or Android Debug Bridge?
  
  




signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread berenger . morel




Le 10.12.2014 21:34, Andrei POPESCU a écrit :

On Mi, 10 dec 14, 13:27:21, Paul E Condon wrote:


What is 'PoC'? Probably will be blindly obvious once I've been told.


Most likely Proof of Concept.


Yes.

By PoC I mean a small set of program/library which demonstrates that 
something is doable. The kind of pieces of code that you usually just 
put somewhere while rewriting a real, cleaner, version of what you try 
to do :)


When I search for acronyms, I usually just use my favourite search 
engine, which often gives me nice results (using duckduckgo).



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/be56911e7905f0ed75d948bba278f...@neutralite.org

Re: Two monitors on a Matrox G450.

2014-12-11 Thread Sven Hartge

pe...@easthope.ca wrote:

 A CRT monitor and an IBM flat monitor are connected to a Matrox G450
 adapter.  Both monitors display the command line interface.  With X
 running, the monitor on output 1 is active; the monitor on output 2
 indicates absence of signal.  If the monitors are swapped across the
 output connectors, output 2 continues to indicate absence of a signal
 while output 1 works.  From that I conclude that the monitors are OK.

 * Do the following reports help to localize the problem to the video 
 adapter or to software?  
 * Failed to get size of gamma for output default?
 * Other ideas?

Dual-Monitor wirh a G450 only works with a binary-only HAL from Matrox
(no longer available) which must be compatible with your X-Version. 

Conclusion: Dual-Monitor with a G450 on a newer Debian Version than
maybe Lenny or Etch is not possible.

Sorry.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2b7f6t8d6...@mids.svenhartge.de

Re: How is typical home computer used today? (back to original question)


Miles Fidelman wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:


Surely, it would have all been so much simpler, if the
original poster
in the thread, had put the question To what personal uses, do
people
put their computers?.


What correlation need there be between *simple* questions and
*useful* answers?

The OP correctly phrased the question as How is typical home
computer used today?
As I'm the OP, I should know. GRIN


Well... not sure we're typical, then again, as others have asked,
what's typical?  Anyway, in our home:
[snip details]


Thank you. That gives me a useful framework to compare my usage to:
  1. brother-in-law (retired history professor) and sister 
(retired librarian)

  2. brother (retired factory worker)
  3. a nephew (contract programmer)
  4. a friend (has BSEE but is not computer geek) who asked me 
to install a demo Linux





--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489cc96.4020...@cloud85.net

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Stefan Monnier

  users equally well.  If it does, the relevance of having a ^C at boot
  time for stopping an fsck might be open to examination.
 The issue goes beyond fsck.  It's important to be able to interrupt
 various long-running operations (typically waiting for an event)
 during boot.
 But some operations are atomic.

I don't see how to affects what I said.


Stefan


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/jwvwq5ydtq6.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?


berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

[snip]

Now, if you think multi-user OSes are not that good, I think
there is an OS with a different kernel somewhere (not Linux, not
*BSD, not Hurd, not Windows, not ReactOS...) which wants to build
a single user system.
Can't remember the name, I only remember that when someone on
linuxfr described it, I was really sceptical, because there will
obviously be tons of security issues with such a system.



There is a market (how large???) for a single user single task 
computer and OS.
That is how I operate ~100% of the time. Security is a non-issue, 
I have the only key to my house. It needs only one password to 
cove case of physical malicious access. There would be advantages 
to a maintenance password to guard me from making careless/dumb 
errors on *MY OWN* machine. It would be extremely useful if its 
kernel supported running unmodified Debian packages.




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489d2b7.1060...@cloud85.net

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Jerry Stuckle

On 12/11/2014 5:53 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
 Hi,
 
 fsck may take time. Relax, it needs that time.

 What if I do not have that time,

 Find it (this includes planning - of infrastructure and procedures if 
 required).
 
 Ok, so that means anyone with a nice laptop who wants to do some work just 
 before boarding a plane is now at risk. 
 Just had to help someone this morning who had Windows 7 doing updates when he 
 shut down his laptop to board a plane. He had no time to wait, he had not 
 planned on there being an interruption in the normal baviour. This morning 
 his laptop would not boot.
 The same can happen with normal users if we give them the new Debian Jessie 
 on a laptop and they run into a similar situation where fsck will start when 
 it is not a good time to do so. For whatever reason. There needs to be a 
 non corrupting way to something that can last that long. 
 
 No other choices.
 In the near future with Jessie, maybe no, but soon after that we really 
 need it.
 
 Let fsck run and pray it does not halts claiming it can't fix the problem.
 When it is started due to an unclean shutdown or something like it, we can 
 plan. When it simply runs because it does that sometimes, no thank you, I 
 would like a cancel option.
 
 Bonno Bloksma
 
 

A perfect example.  I often do work just before boarding a plane on a
Windows notebook, because around here you don't know when a plane is
going to board until they actually start boarding it.  It could be on
time, or it could be 30 minutes (or more) late.

But I have Windows Update set to Notify only - no automatic
downloading and installing of updates.  That way I can control when the
updates are done (I've seen it take  20 minutes to shut down after a
major update).

If Windows can give you the option as to when to perform a potentially
critical (do not shut down!) and long running process, why can't Linux?

Or, better yet, give the option to cancel it if it does start at the
wrong time.

I often give presentations with my notebook.  If I'm lucky, I get 10-15
minutes to set up.  If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another
presenter ahead of me).  I use Linux whenever possible, but since my
time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete.

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489d03e.5040...@gmail.com

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Thursday 11 December 2014 14:48:41 Richard Owlett wrote:
 The OP correctly phrased the question as How is typical home
 computer used today?
 As I'm the OP, I should know. GRIN

If we had trouble understanding it, then you did *NOT* correctly phrase the 
question.

And you have *STILL* not said what you mean by typical, which is meaningless.

Nor have you said what you mean by a home computer.

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201412111757.46997.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 12:11:26 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

 If Windows can give you the option as to when to perform a potentially
 critical (do not shut down!) and long running process, why can't Linux?

As far as having the option of an fsck at boot is concerned I've already
mentioned grub's datehook module. Ok, you have to set it up in grub.cfg
but then you can forget about ever having an fsck run at an inconvenient
time. Assuming your presentations tend to take place between 10:00 and
20:00 the machine would be configured to not run an fsck during that
time slot.

 Or, better yet, give the option to cancel it if it does start at the
 wrong time.

For less work to set up than the previous method you want to take a look
at

   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799574
 
 I often give presentations with my notebook.  If I'm lucky, I get 10-15
 minutes to set up.  If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another
 presenter ahead of me).  I use Linux whenever possible, but since my
 time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete.

Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/11122014180201.1f494f1dd...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Miles Fidelman


Stefan Monnier wrote:

There is a sort of half-way house, whereby a second user can login
to a workstation without the first user logging out, but the same
keyboard and screen are used and the first user cannot do anything
while the second user has control. I don't know how commonly used this
is, Windows has had it for many years, but few home computers have
enough resources to do this efficiently.

Huh?  Not only Windows but also GNU/Linux and Mac OS X have had this
for years.  And it's not particularly taxing in resources, since most of
the applications of the non active users will just be sitting idle and
can be swapped out.
IOW average PCs have been able to handle this very efficiently for years.


Second and subsequent users have a poor 'user experience'.

Under Debian running Gnome, indeed, the experience is subpar: e.g. only
the first user logged in gets to enjoy audio output.  This bug has been
with us since Debian/Gnome started relying on pulseaudio, IIRC.
And in my experience, the Gnome lock screen has had (and still has) all
kinds of weird lockups in these kinds of situations.

IOW, the problem is that it's not tested enough.  Also, lots of
development around desktop environments have been made with brain-dead
assumptions (e.g. conflating user and administrator), forgetting
that GNU/Linux is a multi-user operating-system.
Examples go from earlier network-manager, to current pulseaudio, through
things like the mount daemon for USB drives.


I think the main point being made is that computers are now
sufficiently cheap that we don't have to all crowd around one machine,
that where there are two or more people in a household who use a
computer more than very occasionally, they will have their own
computers.



Well, let's not forget these other common(?) uses of home computers:
- file/print server
- media server - probably headless, accessed via browser on a tablet or 
smartphone
- remote access from tablet or smartphone (web browser or screen 
mirroring software) - increasingly common among couch potatoes



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489e7e6.8010...@meetinghouse.net

Re: VPN IPSec (Cisco vpnc)

2014-12-11 Thread Hajder Rabiee

Ok thank you for your reply.

I'll have a second round with the IT admins. The question remains if the
pre shared key is the same as the group password? If not, how is it
specified in vpnc?



On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Frédéric Marchal 
frederic.marc...@wowtechnology.com wrote:

 2014-12-11 8:04 GMT+01:00 Hajder Rabiee hajd...@gmail.com:
  Hi
 
  Trying to connect to VPN at work but keep getting: vpnc: no response
 from
  target.
 
  I have created my vpn.conf in /etc/vpnc/myconf.conf and also added Local
  Port 1 as I've read some posts that the particular error message
 might
  have to do
  with a block in the firewall. Comparing with OSX - where the VPN works,
 the
  only difference is that I have to specify a group name in Linux. I have
  talked to the IT admins and gotten the correct group name. I wonder
 though
  is the Group Password the same as the shared key? Otherwise how do I
  specify it?


 I followed this tutorial to connect to Palo Alto GlobalProtect using
 vpnc protocol:


 http://blog.webernetz.net/2014/03/31/palo-alto-globalprotect-for-linux-with-vpnc/

 The group name and group password are distinct parameters. The IT
 admin should give you both in addition to your own credentials.

 In the case of Palo Alto, it was necessary to enable X-Auth. I don't
 remember the error message I received when it was not enabled. OSX,
 Android and Windows with the GlobalProtect client don't need the
 X-Auth protocol. Only Linux's vpnc needs it. You may have some similar
 settings on your VPN server.

 I configured the vpn using the Network Manager in KDE so I don't know
 about /etc/vpnc.

 Make sure you are not trying to connect to the VPN server from inside
 the lan. It doesn't work on my network. I can only connect from the
 wan.

 I also had to circumvent another problem after the connection was
 established. The route to the gateway is set to 128.0.0.0/1. Half of
 the internet address space is routed through the VPN tunnel. I had to
 configure vpnc to ignore the default route and add my own custom
 routes (I did all of this in the Network Manager). OSX and Windows
 receive the correct route though. I have yet to investigate more
 deeply into that problem.

 Frederic




-- 
Med vänliga hälsningar / Best Regards
Hajder

Re: [minor bitch] about the panel (taskbar) LXDE

2014-12-11 Thread Harry Putnam

Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes:

 On Mi, 10 dec 14, 13:57:01, Harry Putnam wrote:
 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes:
 
  So far every application *except xterm* I have tried has the same icon 
  in the top left corner of its window as well as the taskbar. I tried GTK 
  as well as Qt applications. To me this seems to indicate a bug in xterm 
  rather than lxpanel.

[...]

Thanks for clearing up my misreading

xterm may have a bug, but that would also mean emacs gui does too, but
may also be using an xterm.

Can anyone say if xterm shows an icon in taskbar with other desktops
than lxde?


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87k31yow1j@reader.local.lan

Re: VPN IPSec (Cisco vpnc)

2014-12-11 Thread Mike McGinn

Here are the fields in my default.conf for vpnc and what I use them for:
IPSec gateway   this is the IP you use to access the vpn
IPSec IDwe use this as the ID for the company.
IPSec secretthis is the key
Xauth username  we don't use this
Xauth password  we don't use this
Vendor ciscoI think vpnc uses this
Local Port 1
Debug 1 sets the logging level - higher = more logging

On Thursday, December 11, 2014 13:38:52 Hajder Rabiee wrote:
 Ok thank you for your reply.
 
 I'll have a second round with the IT admins. The question remains if the
 pre shared key is the same as the group password? If not, how is it
 specified in vpnc?
 
 
 
 On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Frédéric Marchal 
 
 frederic.marc...@wowtechnology.com wrote:
  2014-12-11 8:04 GMT+01:00 Hajder Rabiee hajd...@gmail.com:
   Hi
   
   Trying to connect to VPN at work but keep getting: vpnc: no response
  
  from
  
   target.
   
   I have created my vpn.conf in /etc/vpnc/myconf.conf and also added
   Local Port 1 as I've read some posts that the particular error
   message
  
  might
  
   have to do
   with a block in the firewall. Comparing with OSX - where the VPN works,
  
  the
  
   only difference is that I have to specify a group name in Linux. I have
   talked to the IT admins and gotten the correct group name. I wonder
  
  though
  
   is the Group Password the same as the shared key? Otherwise how do I
   specify it?
  
  I followed this tutorial to connect to Palo Alto GlobalProtect using
  vpnc protocol:
  
  
  http://blog.webernetz.net/2014/03/31/palo-alto-globalprotect-for-linux-wi
  th-vpnc/
  
  The group name and group password are distinct parameters. The IT
  admin should give you both in addition to your own credentials.
  
  In the case of Palo Alto, it was necessary to enable X-Auth. I don't
  remember the error message I received when it was not enabled. OSX,
  Android and Windows with the GlobalProtect client don't need the
  X-Auth protocol. Only Linux's vpnc needs it. You may have some similar
  settings on your VPN server.
  
  I configured the vpn using the Network Manager in KDE so I don't know
  about /etc/vpnc.
  
  Make sure you are not trying to connect to the VPN server from inside
  the lan. It doesn't work on my network. I can only connect from the
  wan.
  
  I also had to circumvent another problem after the connection was
  established. The route to the gateway is set to 128.0.0.0/1. Half of
  the internet address space is routed through the VPN tunnel. I had to
  configure vpnc to ignore the default route and add my own custom
  routes (I did all of this in the Network Manager). OSX and Windows
  receive the correct route though. I have yet to investigate more
  deeply into that problem.
  
  Frederic
-- 
Mike McGinn KD2CNU
Be happy that brainfarts don't smell.
No electrons were harmed in sending this message, some were inconvenienced.
** Registered Linux User 377849

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Ron

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:52:22 -0500
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:

 Well, let's not forget these other common(?) uses of home computers:
 - file/print server
 - media server - probably headless, accessed via browser on a tablet or 
 smartphone
 - remote access from tablet or smartphone (web browser or screen 
 mirroring software) - increasingly common among couch potatoes

Not to mention the Pentium I box happily recycled, headless, running IPCop 
firewall to protect the LAN from intrusion.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
  Profund and/or witty statement goes here.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211160420.7c004...@ron.cerrocora.org

How to print duplex when using lpr

2014-12-11 Thread Kevin O'Gorman

I sometimes use lpr in a pipeline getting postscript from groff.  My
printer (HP CP2025dn) has a duplexer and I'd like to use it.  I could look
up the Postscript for that, but I'm wondering if there's a way to force
either of groff or lpr to do it for me.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman
#define QUESTION ((bb) || (!bb))   /* Shakespeare */

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

2014-12-11 Thread Jerry Stuckle

On 12/11/2014 1:23 PM, Brian wrote:
 On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 12:11:26 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
 
 If Windows can give you the option as to when to perform a potentially
 critical (do not shut down!) and long running process, why can't Linux?
 
 As far as having the option of an fsck at boot is concerned I've already
 mentioned grub's datehook module. Ok, you have to set it up in grub.cfg
 but then you can forget about ever having an fsck run at an inconvenient
 time. Assuming your presentations tend to take place between 10:00 and
 20:00 the machine would be configured to not run an fsck during that
 time slot.


OK, so I set it up not to run between 07:30 and 21:00 (some
presentations start as early as 8:00 AM and some evening presentations
as late as 8:30 PM).  This means fsck will never run because I don't use
the laptop outside of those times.

 Or, better yet, give the option to cancel it if it does start at the
 wrong time.
 
 For less work to set up than the previous method you want to take a look
 at
 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799574
  

To which Lennart responded that is not a good idea.

 I often give presentations with my notebook.  If I'm lucky, I get 10-15
 minutes to set up.  If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another
 presenter ahead of me).  I use Linux whenever possible, but since my
 time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete.
 
 Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it.
 
 

I appreciate that - but unfortunately, sympathy doesn't solve the problem :)

Jerry


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489ea5c.9030...@gmail.com

Re: How to print duplex when using lpr

On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 11:14:23 -0800, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

 I sometimes use lpr in a pipeline getting postscript from groff.  My
 printer (HP CP2025dn) has a duplexer and I'd like to use it.  I could look
 up the Postscript for that, but I'm wondering if there's a way to force
 either of groff or lpr to do it for me.

Is

  http://localhost:631/help/options.html?TOPIC=Getting+StartedQUERY=

any help?


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/11122014192240.74723994e...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread Martin Read


On 11/12/14 17:21, Richard Owlett wrote:

There is a market (how large???) for a single user single task computer
and OS.


It's very large indeed! Apple, and the various customers (e.g. Samsung, 
LG, HTC) of Google and Microsoft, are quite enthusiastic about selling 
devices that (superficially) cater to that market.



That is how I operate ~100% of the time. Security is a non-issue, I have
the only key to my house.  It needs only one password to cove case of
physical malicious access. There would be advantages to a maintenance
password to guard me from making careless/dumb errors on *MY OWN*
machine. It would be extremely useful if its kernel supported running
unmodified Debian packages.


Conveniently, it turns out to be possible to configure a Debian system 
to automatically log you in when you turn it on. I haven't *followed* 
any of the links duckduckgo has kindly provided me with when I typed


debian autologin

into its search box and pressed RETURN, but at least some of them 
certainly appear to be useful based on the preview text shown in the list.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489f02b.4030...@zen.co.uk

Re: How to print duplex when using lpr

2014-12-11 Thread Don Armstrong

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
 I sometimes use lpr in a pipeline getting postscript from groff. My
 printer (HP CP2025dn) has a duplexer and I'd like to use it. I could
 look up the Postscript for that, but I'm wondering if there's a way to
 force either of groff or lpr to do it for me.

If you're using cups, you can do the following:

lp -o sides=two-sided-long-edge filename;

man lp; for details.

-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

The attackers hadn't simply robbed the bank. They had carried off
everything portable, including the security cameras, the carpets, the
chairs, and the light and plumbing fixtures. The conspirators had
deliberately punished the bank, for reasons best known to themselves,
or to their unknown controllers. They had superglued doors and
shattered windows, severed power and communications cables, poured
stinking toxins into the wallspaces, and concreted all of the sinks
and drains. In eight minutes, sixty people had ruined the building so
thoroughly that it had to be condemned and later demolished.
 -- Bruce Sterling, _Distraction_ p4


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211192713.gm31...@rzlab.ucr.edu

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Ric Moore


On 12/11/2014 01:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote:


So much metaphorical male ovine faeces.

And, that is not directed at Lisi; just at the people trying to impose
their dubious opinions and classifications, of what is, and, what has
been, and, of what should be.


Do you suppose Debian has become refuge for former XP users?? :) Ric


--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489f2b5.1060...@gmail.com

Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?

2014-12-11 Thread Ric Moore


On 12/11/2014 11:33 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:


Well... this model is still very used in enterprises. I do not speak
about those old mainframes which are still bought by very huge
corporations (at least, I've heard so)


Huh? :D Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489f78c.7080...@gmail.com

Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?

On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 14:02:52 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

 On 12/11/2014 1:23 PM, Brian wrote:
  
  For less work to set up than the previous method you want to take a look
  at
  
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799574
   
 
 To which Lennart responded that is not a good idea.

Who am I to argue with a super-coder's views. :) I would look at it this
way:

He says

  If an fsck is started after boot is complete we really shouldn't try to
  take posession of /dev/tty1 again, since X11 or a getty might run on it,
  and things would get very confused if we'd try to read input from that.

but being pragmatic, if you applied the suggested change, tested and
found no confusion taking place then keep it.

I'm not completely happy with that approach but if it works, it works.

I'd like to suggest 'tune2fs -c -1 /dev/sdaX' and running an fsck when
*you* decide but the heavens could fall in. :)

  I often give presentations with my notebook.  If I'm lucky, I get 10-15
  minutes to set up.  If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another
  presenter ahead of me).  I use Linux whenever possible, but since my
  time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete.
  
  Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it.
 
 I appreciate that - but unfortunately, sympathy doesn't solve the problem :)

But it does get you responses.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/11122014192651.c5b5a6ea0...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: How is typical home computer used today?

2014-12-11 Thread Joe

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:38:29 -0500
Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12/11/2014 01:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote:
 
  So much metaphorical male ovine faeces.
 
  And, that is not directed at Lisi; just at the people trying to
  impose their dubious opinions and classifications, of what is, and,
  what has been, and, of what should be.
 
 Do you suppose Debian has become refuge for former XP users?? :) Ric
 
 

I wouldn't have thought so, most will still be running XP...

-- 
Joe


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141211203415.459d9...@jresid.jretrading.com

Re: How is typical home computer used today?