Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[David Wright]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 18:42:38 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 15:09:09 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > But how do Debian list servers know ?
> 
> A good question. How are my mails matched with my subscribed address
> so that I am awarded the accolade of LDOSUBSCRIBER? On the basis that
> my past statements about the SMTP protocol (whatever they were) have
> not been well received, I decline to offer any suggestion.

Have we been told what your subscribed address is? I've assumed
that it's the one in the envelope-from of the post I'm replying to.
(I don't want to quote it.) Is that correct? Or maybe that …CII.eu one?

> > Is it because Exim 4.89 said "MAIL FROM:<...subscribed.address...>" to
> > lists.debian.org ?
> 
> "subscribed.address" is the HELO and can be what I want it to be. See
> the headers of my previous mail.

Why would you use a "subscribed.address" (presumably an email address)
for your HELO (presumably actually a EHLO). I was under the impression
that it should be a domain, ie a FQDN.

> > Or is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to its Received:
> > header ?
> > 
> >   Received: from ... by ... with local (Exim 4.89)
> >   (envelope-from <...>)
> >   id 1iHRiB-0006S7-Ks
> >   for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:01:59 +0100
> 
> I can alter that too, and still be designated LDOSUBSCRIBER.

Have we observed that? I only had LDOSUBSCRIBER bestowed on me when my
envelope-from became the same as my subscribed address, which followed as
a consequence of my adopting the .corp domain name last year after seeing
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/12/icann_corp_home_mail_gtlds/
Until then, exim4 didn't seem able to rewrite my headers because I
didn't have a dot in my FQDN, only an unadorned hostname.

Cheers,
David.

Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[David Wright]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 15:09:09 (+0200), Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> i wrote:
> > > To my best knowledge, "X-Spam-Status: ... tests=...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,..."
> > > says that the "From:" address of the mail is subscribed.
> 
> Brian wrote:
> > Are you sure it is the From: and not the envelope From? My From: is
> > not subscribed.
> 
> Interesting observation.
> So the address by which you submit your mail to the remote server is
> subscribed and it is not the "From:" address which your mail client
> writes into the header part of the mail ?
> 
> I wonder whether my mail provider would allow me to send via SMTP
>   MAIL FROM:
>   RCPT TO:debian-user@lists.debian.org
> and then by DATA
>   From: "Somebody Else" 

It's fairly easy to find out by trying it out, only obviously in an
email to yourself, not the list. Perhaps not as easy as it was,
because unencrypted telnet has all but gone. And I've also found that
my ISP is more "impatient" and times out fairly quickly, so nowadays
I assemble the whole email in an emacs buffer and paste it into the
session all in one go. Here's an example, suitably mangled:

$ openssl s_client -starttls smtp -crlf -connect 
smtp.some.submission.host.tld:12345

That opens the session, and I only press Return when I've copied the
email itself into the paste buffer. Here's the email, and there's
a blank line after the header.

ehlo wren.corp
auth plain MyAuthenticationNameAndPasswordInBase64==
mail from:realusern...@realdomain.tld
rcpt to:
data
From: Whoever You Want To Be 
to: 
subject: hand written test 01

Hand written test 01
You could duplicate the headers here as a record
.
quit

I do it all in a script session so that I get a recording, from which
I snip the authentication lines before archiving it.
BTW the string in the authentication line above is generated with:
$ echo -e -n '\0username\0password' | base64
Obviously I'm assuming that your ISP has facilities comparable to
mine, which are (I use two):

250-PIPELINING
250-SIZE 2048
250-ETRN
250-AUTH DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5 PLAIN LOGIN
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-8BITMIME
250 DSN

250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-SIZE 3000
250-8BITMIME
250 OK

However, I see lots of DKIM stuff in your emails, so it might not be
as simple as this for you. But in principle, it should work.

   There is no inherent relationship between either "reverse" (from
   MAIL, SAML, etc., commands) or "forward" (RCPT) addresses in the SMTP
   transaction ("envelope") and the addresses in the header section.
   (RFC 5321.)

> But how do Debian list servers know ?
> Is it because Exim 4.89 said "MAIL FROM:<...subscribed.address...>" to
> lists.debian.org ?
> Or is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to its Received:
> header ?

I've always assumed the envelope from is generated from the 'mail
from' line, and that the envelope should reach the Debian list
processing system unchanged.

>   Received: from ... by ... with local (Exim 4.89)
>   (envelope-from <...>)
>   id 1iHRiB-0006S7-Ks
>   for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:01:59 +0100
> 
> (I wonder where "envelope-from" in "Received:" is specified. The word
>  does neither appear in RFC5322 nor in RFC5321.)

I've always assumed that what is in parentheses is all "noise" as far
as SMTP is concerned, like that Exim version number, the envelope-from
and, in your email for example, (Client did not present a certificate).

> ---
> 
> > > Nevertheless, if i have no other indication then i normally add a "Cc:"
> > > to the thread starter if i do not see LDOSUBSCRIBER among the spam tests.
> 
> > On the basis, one supposes, that the situation is unclear and you wish
> > the poster to know there is a reply to her post.
> 
> It is futile to send Cc: to people who are known to reply to list messages.
> But thread starters where i am in doubt get a Cc: from me if i have
> something to tell them.

Cheers,
David.

Microphone actif ?

[Pierre ESTREM]

Bonjour,

Je voudrais manipuler la sortie de "pactl list sources" pour en extraire 
le nom du microphone que j'utilise.


Mais celui-ci qu'il soit allumé (ou pas) a pour état "SUSPENDED" (tout 
comme l'entrée Line-in sur laquelle rien n'est branché).


Quelle commande pourrait-elle me dire quel microphone serait allumé ?

Merci
pierre estrem

Re: Problems with Buster and Bluetooth

[deloptes]

David Parker wrote:

> # hciconfig -a
> hci0: Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> BD Address: 5C:F3:70:8C:B7:98  ACL MTU: 1021:8  SCO MTU: 64:1
> UP RUNNING PSCAN
> RX bytes:62062 acl:40 sco:0 events:3178 errors:0
> TX bytes:499936 acl:776 sco:0 commands:1088 errors:38
> Features: 0xbf 0xfe 0xcf 0xfe 0xdb 0xff 0x7b 0x87
> Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
> Link policy: RSWITCH SNIFF
> Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
> Name: 'debian'
> Class: 0x100104
> Service Classes: Object Transfer
> Device Class: Computer, Desktop workstation
> HCI Version: 4.0 (0x6)  Revision: 0x153a
> LMP Version: 4.0 (0x6)  Subversion: 0x220e
> Manufacturer: Broadcom Corporation (15)

Under Service Classes you have only "Object Transfer"

hci0:   Type: Primary  Bus: USB
BD Address:   ACL MTU: 310:10  SCO MTU: 64:8
UP RUNNING PSCAN
RX bytes:19767535 acl:62926 sco:0 events:3572 errors:0
TX bytes:390503 acl:2479 sco:0 commands:1081 errors:0
Features: 0xff 0xff 0x8f 0xfe 0x9b 0xff 0x59 0x83
Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
Link policy: RSWITCH HOLD SNIFF PARK
Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
Name: 'fujitsu'
Class: 0x3c0104
Service Classes: Rendering, Capturing, Object Transfer, Audio
Device Class: Computer, Desktop workstation
HCI Version: 2.1 (0x4)  Revision: 0x12e7
LMP Version: 2.1 (0x4)  Subversion: 0x12e7
Manufacturer: Cambridge Silicon Radio (10)

Why is Audio not listed?

You can get the TxPower (if lucky) from the device via DBUS Device1
Interface

dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez 
/org/bluez/hci0/dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX
org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get string:org.bluez.Device1 string:TxPower

dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez 
/org/bluez/hci0/dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX
org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll string:org.bluez.Device1

replace dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX with your BT MAC

Re: Dual boot: one legacy, the other uefi

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 07/10/2019 à 09:42, Joe a écrit :

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:26:32 +0200
Pascal Hambourg  wrote:


Le 06/10/2019 à 22:45, Beco a écrit :


Now the system can boot both systems ok. But to choose which one
you want, you need to enter the BIOS, change legacy to UEFI, and
vice-versa, then you can boot.


Would you mind telling which systems boots in EFI mode and which one
boots in legacy mode ?


Windows 8/8a/10 boot only in EFI.


I don't think so. Source ?

Re: iptables why rejects this output?

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 10:55:53PM +0200, BAGI Ákos wrote:
> you mean I should make the firewall settings public?
> good idea :)

If your security depends on obscurity, you do not have a security in the
first place.

Your INPUT rules can be probed.
Your FORWARD rules aren't relevant to your problem.
Your OUTPUT rules are, and they do nothing to protect you from the
hostile Internet.

So if you're asking why a certain iptables rule produces a
certain kernel output - please provide the offending rule at least.
Or better - full OUTPUT chain.

Reco

Re: [OT] Dependencies et al

[Étienne Mollier]

(Warning: irrelevancy ahead.)

On 07/10/2019 21.29, Brian wrote:
> I am not overly bothered whether my answers are read. That is up to the
> OP. For all I know, all my mails are deleted on sight by all users on
> this list. :)

Wrong, there is at least one that hasn't.
QED  ;)
-- 
Étienne Mollier 
Fingerprint:  5ab1 4edf 63bb ccff 8b54  2fa9 59da 56fe fff3 882d



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: 3d acceleration broken out of the box on h/w that has been supported correctly in the past.

[Étienne Mollier]

On 07/10/2019 11.08, DAVID HAND wrote:
> This is present in Buster and Stretch - can't remember precisely when it 
> broke.
> 
> Don't know which package maintainer is responsible, have searched a  lot and 
> found many similar sounding issues yet not been able to fix it myself, nor 
> find active similar bug. Possibly one filed with glx-alternative
> 
> The breakage is fairly innocuous - unless your DE tries to do too much - like 
> KDE Plasma..  However 360 degree videos will without fail be garbled. (I 
> vaguely remember this occurring sometime between Wheezy and Stretch but 
> didn't really pay it much attention at the time). Installation of the 
> proprietary 304xx nvidia driver (in Stretch as no longer included since 
> Buster) changes but does not fix the issue.
> 
> I get the impression it's something to do with the spaghetti of openGL 
> symbolic links, but I'm a little out of my depth.
> 
> Would love to get some help to rectify this one way or another.
> 

Good day David, (well, day with a lot of noise, but that is
relatively uncommon actually),

Last time I had some garbling with libgl links, it was due to a
reinstallation, or update, of "xorg-xserver", which erased an
NVidia specific version of the libgl.so with its own.  Could you
send the output of the following commands:

$ glxinfo | head
$ nvidida-smi
$ lspci | grep VGA

Well, assuming the problem does come from garbled OpenGL libs,
purging then reinstalling the NVidia driver might help, but I am
referring for myself to a situation where the .run file from
NVidia was in use (specific driver qualification in professional
context); not sure how things would work with Debian packaging.

Kind Regards,  :)
-- 
Étienne Mollier 
Fingerprint:  5ab1 4edf 63bb ccff 8b54  2fa9 59da 56fe fff3 882d



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: iptables why rejects this output?

[BAGI Ákos]

you mean I should make the firewall settings public?
good idea :)


2019.10.05 12:32 keltezéssel, deloptes írta:

BAGI Ákos wrote:


How can I enable it with iptables? (I have lot of iptables rules).
Is it ok, to enable  it?

without the iptables rules it is hard to tell - post the rules
(iptables-save)

Re: vnc 64bit-32bitor Buster to Bullseye

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 03:01:43PM -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:
> Using tightvncserver on the 32-bit side and xtightvncviewer on the
> 64-bit side I have managed to get a connection, but no desktop
> manager. The viewer shows me a window but it is just gray, actually
> very small black and white spots.

You're supposed to edit .vnc/xstartup on tightvncserver side before
starting tightvncserver.


> How do I get xfce started on that session?

Something like this should do it (.vnc/xstartup):

#!/bin/sh

xrdb $HOME/.Xresources
xsetroot -solid grey
/usr/bin/startxfce4


> Better yet, how can I connect to the existing session on :0?

Forget about tightvncserver, it cannot do that. Use:

apt install x11vnc

x11vnc -display :0 -auth 

Reco

vnc 64bit-32bitor Buster to Bullseye

[Dennis Wicks]

Greetings;

I have a vanilla 64-bit install of Buster which claims to be 
Debian 10.1. I am trying to vnc from there to my old 32-bit 
machine which is running Bullseye (don't know what it claims 
to be).


Using tightvncserver on the 32-bit side and xtightvncviewer 
on the 64-bit side I have managed to get a connection, but 
no desktop manager. The viewer shows me a window but it is 
just gray, actually very small black and white spots.


How do I get xfce started on that session? Better yet, how 
can I connect to the existing session on :0? I can't seem to 
hook up to that. Strangely, when I connect to a Windows 
machine it seems to do exactly that!


Any assistance greatly appreciated!

Many TIA!
Dennis

Re: Dependencies et al

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 20:49:08 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Brian wrote:
> > I am still wondering what use it is to "check for the existence of
> > that LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before*
> > replying to e-mail". How does it affect the actions one takes?
> 
> As said, i use it as guideline whether to add a Cc: for the thread starter.
> If i write an answer, then i want it to be read.

I am not overly bothered whether my answers are read. That is up to the
OP. For all I know, all my mails are deleted on sight by all users on
this list. :)

> > Or is it just another facet of cargo cult?
> 
> Cargo cult is the advise to burn DVDs with speed 1.

:)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Michael Stone]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 10:05:30PM +0300, Reco wrote:

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 02:45:29PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 09:17:21PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial outcome.
>
> You're entitled to your option, of course.

For context, the most recent message from that account started out with:


And, for the context, I was referring to the child of the original
e-mail, which stated:

This is harassment because you force me to use either
Xarchiver or Ark, you don't give me the choice to use none.
...
All normal package managers would just remove everything
that depends on Xarchiver, not force me to install alternative.


Whenever it's a harassment it's for an appropriate Debian Team to
decide, of course.


No, reasonable people can evaluate it on their own without an appeal to 
authority. Trying to legitimize an inappropriate email is worse for the 
overall well-being of the list than just ignoring it, and hand-wringing 
over whether there was a good point hidden in the garbage simply 
dignifies it more than it deserves.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:45:29 -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 09:17:21PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial 
> > > outcome.
> > 
> > You're entitled to your option, of course.
> 
> For context, the most recent message from that account started out with:
> 
> "I posted to publicly state that Debian developers are assholes, but
> now I see that Debian users are assholes too (just like religious cult
> of Theo de Raadt which we know as OpenBSD)."
> 
> I think most people would agree that's a troll account which isn't going to
> lead to any meaningful engagement. It's probably reasonable to assume that
> any issues raised by the troll account were selected to cause conflict, not
> to request assistance for a real problem in need of a solution.

If that had been in a submitted bug report, it would been closed within
seconds.

> > Still, there were some valid points in that e-mail.
> 
> We can certainly agree to disagree.

About the points? Yes. About the tone? No. It is unacceptable on this
list and does not deserve to be championed.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 02:45:29PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 09:17:21PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial 
> > > outcome.
> > 
> > You're entitled to your option, of course.
> 
> For context, the most recent message from that account started out with:

And, for the context, I was referring to the child of the original
e-mail, which stated:

This is harassment because you force me to use either
Xarchiver or Ark, you don't give me the choice to use none.
...
All normal package managers would just remove everything
that depends on Xarchiver, not force me to install alternative.


Whenever it's a harassment it's for an appropriate Debian Team to
decide, of course.


> I think most people would agree that's a troll account which isn't
> going to lead to any meaningful engagement.

Totally agreed. Yet even such e-mail can give a start to a meaningful
and civilized discussion, as we're currently seeing in other part of
this thread.


> It's probably reasonable to assume that any issues raised by the troll
> account were selected to cause conflict, not to request assistance for
> a real problem in need of a solution.

Hardly. OP needed to get it out their system, and choose an
inappropriate way of doing so. Ban them, and be done with it.


> > User tries to uninstall a program, for instance - "xarchiver"
> 
> Why? What is the use-case for a naive user to remove that,

I've asked to leave "gnome" metapackage as it is, as you may recall.
It's perfect as it is. GNOME is the default Debian DE, installing
something else takes skill and determination. In the process of gaining
these user tends to lose that naivity (sp?).

Reco

Re: batterie sous openbox et compression video sous linux ?

[Francois Meyer]

Le 06/10/2019 à 23:17, benoit...@ouvaton.org a écrit :

1) BATTERIE SOUS OPENBOX
Je souhaiterais savoir comment afficher simplement (à la manière de
"xclock") le niveau de ma batterie (j'utilise de temps en temps à la 
main la
commade "acpi -b" mais il faut y penser !). Peut être un petit 
progamme en
"bash" lancé dans un "xterm" par exemple ? 


J'utilise conky avec :

${exec acpi -b | sed -r 's/^.+, ([0-9]{1,2}%), 
([0-9]{2}):([0-9]{2}).+/~\1 \n\2h\3m/'}


dans le .conkyrc

J'ai écrit la commande il y a bien longtemps...je ne me souviens plus du 
pourquoi du comment du sed. Je ne suis pas sous openbox mais je pense 
que ce qui marche avec fvwm2 devrait marcher avec openbox


Bonne soirée

François

Re: Dependencies et al

[John Hasler]

 Michael Stone writes:
> Are there any real users with valid use cases for which this as an
> issue?

"I told it to remove xyzzy and it removed all of Gnome!" (or some other
metapackage) is a common complaint.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 21:17:21 +0300, Reco wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:39:56PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.
> > > 
> > > I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
> > > Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.
> > > About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
> > > GUI archivers.
> > > I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
> > > dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.
> > 
> > I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial outcome.
> 
> You're entitled to your option, of course.

It is magnanimous of you to entertain that idea.

> Still, there were some valid points in that e-mail.

The "staff" on this list are entitled to work without fear of having
explicit insults and inappropriate language thrown at them, especially
when they choose to participate. The expectation is to work in a decent,
well-ordered, respectful, unviolent, and helpful environment.

It doesn't matter how valid the points made are. If you are kicking the
target in the teeth at the same time, they are not uppermost in your
mind and deserve to be ignored.

It is not just what you say - it is the way that you say it that matters.
This isn't, or shouldn't be, an anything goes list.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Brian wrote:
> I am still wondering what use it is to "check for the existence of
> that LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before*
> replying to e-mail". How does it affect the actions one takes?

As said, i use it as guideline whether to add a Cc: for the thread starter.
If i write an answer, then i want it to be read.


> Or is it just another facet of cargo cult?

Cargo cult is the advise to burn DVDs with speed 1.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Michael Stone]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 09:17:21PM +0300, Reco wrote:

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial outcome.


You're entitled to your option, of course.


For context, the most recent message from that account started out with:

"I posted to publicly state that Debian developers are assholes, but
now I see that Debian users are assholes too (just like religious cult
of Theo de Raadt which we know as OpenBSD)."

I think most people would agree that's a troll account which isn't going 
to lead to any meaningful engagement. It's probably reasonable to assume 
that any issues raised by the troll account were selected to cause 
conflict, not to request assistance for a real problem in need of a 
solution.



Still, there were some valid points in that e-mail.


We can certainly agree to disagree.


User tries to uninstall a program, for instance - "xarchiver"


Why? What is the use-case for a naive user to remove that, apart from 
coming up with scenarios to troll debian-user? For an experienced user 
with esoteric requirements the solution is trivial: don't use task 
packages if you want an artisanal hand-crafted install.

Re: et.al.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > But how do Debian list servers know [that Brian is subscribed] ?
> > [...] is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to
> > its Received: header ?

Brian wrote:
> I can alter that too, and still be designated LDOSUBSCRIBER.

Hmm. I see you tinkered with the first Received: text. A "c" is now
missing at the host name:
  Received: from ... by o...org.uk with local (Exim 4.89)
versus
  Received: from ... by co...org.uk with local (Exim 4.89)

But the "(envelope-from <...>)" is still part of that header line.

Nevertheless, if this address is not the one that is subscribed, then
i am out of ideas.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Sorl

[Antoni Villalonga]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:21:54PM +0200, Joan Cervan wrote:
> Hola,
> 
> En una web que porto, amb drupal, les cerques son molt lentes, i la
> sol·lució natural és deixar de banda la cerca en BBDD i usar Apache
> Sorl.

Hola,

Com a alternativa pots provar sphinx. És un motor full-text search.

Jo vaig fer un petit script que recull dades de la bd i les volca al sphinx (un
cop cada hora, amb el cron).

La cerca es pot fer amb comandes sql, emprant el connector mysql cap al sphinx.

Salut!

-- 
Antoni Villalonga
http://friki.cat/

lets encrypt certificaten

[lists]

Hallo,

Ik gebruik inmiddels alweer jaren de certificaten van Lets Encrypt voor 
vanalles en nog wat. Heel erg geweldig.


Doe dat altijd al met de client https://github.com/Neilpang/acme.sh Echt 
super: zeer lightweight, helemaal in bash. Ik gebruik daarbij 
afhankelijk van de machine de 'apache mode' of de 'standalone mode'.


Let Encrypt kent ook een DNS validation mode.

Het bezwaar van de (eigenlijk veel mooiere) DNS validation mode vond ik 
dat je daarvoor een API key van je DNS op alle Lets Encrypt clients 
moest zetten. Waarmee in geval van een compromised server ook direct je 
hele DNS compromised was.


Anyway. Ik heb afgelopen dagen het volgende project ontdekt:
https://github.com/joohoi/acme-dns

Hiermee is dat hele probleem in een keer opgelost. Je maakt een 
sub-zone, die je alleen voor Lets Encrypt validaties gebruikt, en 
gebruikt *NIET* je hoofdzone/DNS server, en je maakt een specifieke API 
username/password aan PER server waarop je Lets Encrypt certificaten wil 
gebruiken.


Ik kende acme-dns nog niet en ben het direct gaan gebruiken. Grote fan, 
misschien hebben jullie er ook iets aan. Misschien ook niet, in dat 
geval: gooi deze mail vooral weg. :-)


Groetjes!
MJ

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:54:17PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:39:56PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.
> > 
> > I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
> > Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.
> > About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
> > GUI archivers.
> > I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
> > dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.
> 
> I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial outcome.

You're entitled to your option, of course.
Still, there were some valid points in that e-mail.


> In this case, unless you're specifically trying to remove all of these
> specific dependencies (for no apparent reason) *it simply doesn't
> matter*.

And as I wrote in another part of this thread:

User tries to uninstall a program, for instance - "xarchiver", and user
has "lxqt" metapackage installed. User sees that apt tries to install
another dependency of "lxqt" along with removing the xarchiver.
Or, user has "lxde" metapackage installed. User tries to remove
"xarchiver", which removes "lxde" by dependency, which removes all of
LXDE as a result.


Disregarding "gnome" metapackage, which of the cases seems sane to you?
Or the end user?

Reco

Re: Dependencies et al

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 06:34:20PM +0200, Linux-Fan wrote:
> Citing from that:
> | 6.7.10. Best practices for meta-packages
> | A meta-package is a mostly empty package that makes it easy to install a
> | coherent set of packages that can evolve over time. It achieves this by
> | depending on all the packages of the set. Thanks to the power of APT, the
> | meta-package maintainer can adjust the dependencies and the user's system
> | will automatically get the supplementary packages. The dropped packages
> | that were automatically installed will be also be marked as removal
> | candidates (and are even automatically removed by aptitude).
> | gnome and linux-image-amd64 are two examples of meta-packages [...]
> 
> If I understand it correctly, meta-packages use Depends because this allows
> packages like the kernel meta-package to function correctly: Changing a
> Depends to a newer kernel version will cause older kernels to automatically
> be uninstalled.

It could work this way, but currently it does not in this specific case.
See /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove* .
Current behaviour is "we do not autoremove the current kernel and the
one that's installed before". Sane enough, if you ask me.


> From my point of view, this clearly explains why the kernel meta-package
> should make use of Depends fields, but for Desktop Environments, the
> advantage of having a Depends is less clear to me:
> 
> On the one hand, it is an advantage that just removing the Desktop
> Environment package will uninstall all related programs because this allows
> trying them out and uninstalling them afterwards without leaving many
> programs installed.

It's an improvement over the current behaviour IMO.

User tries to uninstall a program, for instance - "xarchiver", and user
has "lxqt" metapackage installed. User sees that apt tries to install
another dependency of "lxqt" along with removing the xarchiver.
Or, user has "lxde" metapackage installed. User tries to remove
"xarchiver", which removes "lxde" by dependency, which removes all of
LXDE as a result.

In the former case user has to guess the metapackage which forces such
replacement. In the latter case user is scared of the dependencies
(because they remove half of the "system").


> On the other hand, the case of a user wanting to install
> a desktop environment but "without this and that" is not possible with the
> current design of meta-packages.

Why, it's possible. But user cannot use metapackages in such case, and
picking the needed packages one by one is tedious at best.
Which beats the primary purpose of metapackages.


> I can think of another good reason for having Depends: Ease of support.
...
> Thinking of a case where everything is just Recommends, it would be
> possible that dependency problems (however they occurred in the first place)

A catch here is that Recommends are treated as Depends in a default
Debian installation. A user can disable Recommends installation, but
it's discouraged. See last month discussion on this at this list, for instance.

So, for the default apt settings, there is no visible difference between
Depends metapackage and Recommends metapackage.

The real fun starts then the user discovers that APT::Install-Recommends
setting.

Reco

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 10:56:30 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 16:03:21 (+0300), Reco wrote:

[...]

> > Please show a e-mail from the list subscriber that does not have
> > aforementioned attribute, then we'll have something to talk about.
> 
> Dead easy. Just configure your email system so that the envelope-from
> does not match your subscribed address. All my list postings lacked
> LDOSUBSCRIBER until April last year for that reason. Judging by one
> of the threads I contributed to at that time, I expect that this is
> when I changed my domain's name from nothing to "corp", and stopped
> exim from nagging me about my FQDN.

That seems good to me (and Reco agrees). Problem: my envelope From
does not match my subscribed address, and is not intended to.

I am still wondering what use it is to "check for the existence of
that LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before*
replying to e-mail". How does it affect the actions one takes? Or
is it just another facet of cargo cult?

-- 
Brian.

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

lwhona...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was under the impression, if I copied the dvd image to a usb stick,
> I could boot from the stick and start the install.

This is true. You have to put it as image onto the raw USB stick device.

  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
proposes for GNU/Linux something like
  cp debian-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdd
where /dev/sdd is the device file representing the USB stick.

For MS-Windows it proposes to use
  https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
An alternative is program Rufus with its "dd" mode. (I.e. not the mode by
which it installs GNU/Linux onto USB stick.)

It will not work if you put the ISO image into a partition of the USB stick
or as data file into a filesystem on the USB stick.
The copy operation is only credible if you afterwards (and after re-plugging)
see a new partition table on the USB stick. Maybe MS-Windows will complain
about a messed up GPT partition table. That's normal. Do not allow it to
"repair" it.


> Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD © © 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al

This does not look like the first bootloader message of a contemporary
Debian ISO image. If booted via legacy BIOS it should say "ISOLINUX"
rather than "Syslinux" and, depending on the age of your ISO image,
tell a younger age and higher revision.
debian-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso has in its boot image the strings
  ISOLINUX 6.04 20190226
  Copyright (C) 1994-2015 H. Peter Anvin et al

I assume you fell victim to some installation tool which unpacks ISOs
and tries prepare an own bootloader to boot the unpacked system. Typically
those programs offer to put several Linuxes onto the same stick.

This might work or not work. In any case it circumvents the prepared
boot procedure, which begins for legacy BIOS by the ISO's Master Boot
Record and then hops to the same boot program image that is used when
booting from DVD.


> Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb drive in
> order to begin the install for Debian?

You will need an internet connection for (semi-)automatic downloading of
the bulk of Debian packages. (The advantage is that you can use a small
"netinst" ISO of only a few hundred MB and a smaller USB stick.)

Alternatively you could work with a Blu-ray sized ISO, which needs some
effort to download if you do not yet have a running Debian system.
E.g. debian-10.1.0-amd64-BD-1 from
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
by help of an intermediate Debian Live system
  https://wiki.debian.org/JigdoOnLive

-
For the archives:

A. Söldner wrote:
> I think you've to make the USB-Stick bootable and write the first ISO to the
> Stick.

This is outdated since about Debian 6 (2012 ?).
We now have "isohybrid".


Gene Heskett wrote:
> Done right, you see the contents, but not the iso file.

True. But you would see the many files also if you copied the ISO onto
a partition instead onto the whole stick.
In this case, the stick's partition table would not change.
(It would not boot because the ISO's MBR would not be in place for the
 legacy BIOS to find it.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Michael Stone]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:39:56PM +0300, Reco wrote:

No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.

I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.
About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
GUI archivers.
I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.


I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial 
outcome. In this case, unless you're specifically trying to remove all 
of these specific dependencies (for no apparent reason) *it simply 
doesn't matter*. Saying, "there was a troll post which shows that this 
is an issue" just isn't compelling. Are there any real users with valid 
use cases for which this as an issue? If not, why encourage another 
dozen messages about it?

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[John Hasler]

Patrick Bartek writes:
> They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved,
> more or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has
> discovered and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life
> . . . and software

The OP is in a hell of his own making (which is fine with me).  If he
wasn't such a dork he'd let Lxqt pull in Xarchiver, ignore it, and
install his choice of archiver.

I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
don't use a DE.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 15:09:09 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

[...]

> But how do Debian list servers know ?

A good question. How are my mails matched with my subscribed address
so that I am awarded the accolade of LDOSUBSCRIBER? On the basis that
my past statements about the SMTP protocol (whatever they were) have
not been well received, I decline to offer any suggestion.

> Is it because Exim 4.89 said "MAIL FROM:<...subscribed.address...>" to
> lists.debian.org ?

"subscribed.address" is the HELO and can be what I want it to be. See
the headers of my previous mail.

> Or is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to its Received:
> header ?
> 
>   Received: from ... by ... with local (Exim 4.89)
>   (envelope-from <...>)
>   id 1iHRiB-0006S7-Ks
>   for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:01:59 +0100

I can alter that too, and still be designated LDOSUBSCRIBER.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 10:56:30AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 16:03:21 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:32:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:59:31 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of 
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* 
> > > > > > > > replying to
> > > > > > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to 
> > > > > > > > OP but
> > > > > > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says 
> > > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or 
> > > > > > > reads
> > > > > > > list mails.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > > > > > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?
> > > > 
> > > > Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk 
> > > > e-mail.
> > > > Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some 
> > > > conclusion.
> > > 
> > > Your theorising is interesting and doesn't really answer the question.
> > 
> > Because if you make a certain statement, the burden of proof lies on you.
> > Now that you have answered own question,
> > 
> > 
> > > That address is not subscribed to the list and plays no part in routeing
> > > mails to or from the list.
> > 
> > Yet e-mails with that address at From: do have X-Spam-Status: 
> > LDOSUBSCRIBER. 
> > Whenever list e-mail is delivered at another e-mail is hardly relevant.
> > 
> > Please show a e-mail from the list subscriber that does not have
> > aforementioned attribute, then we'll have something to talk about.
> 
> Dead easy. Just configure your email system so that the envelope-from
> does not match your subscribed address. All my list postings lacked
> LDOSUBSCRIBER until April last year for that reason. Judging by one
> of the threads I contributed to at that time, I expect that this is
> when I changed my domain's name from nothing to "corp", and stopped
> exim from nagging me about my FQDN.

Ok, that can work, I appreciate the explanation.

Now, the hard part. Show me a way *not* to have LDOSUBSCRIBER, and have
both Return-Path and From to be the same *and* to be subscribed to the
list. Bonus point is awarded for From to be from @gmail.com, another one
if e-mail is sent by Google MTA, with the valid DKIM.

Previous sentences refer to OP's e-mail, just in case.

Reco

Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 15:09:09 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> i wrote:
> > > To my best knowledge, "X-Spam-Status: ... tests=...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,..."
> > > says that the "From:" address of the mail is subscribed.
> 
> Brian wrote:
> > Are you sure it is the From: and not the envelope From? My From: is
> > not subscribed.
> 
> Interesting observation.
> So the address by which you submit your mail to the remote server is
> subscribed

No. My subscribed address does not appear in the mail headers and is
not used in the transaction between my mail server and bendel.debian.org.

> and it is not the "From:" address which your mail client
> writes into the header part of the mail ?

Correct.

> I wonder whether my mail provider would allow me to send via SMTP
>   MAIL FROM:
>   RCPT TO:debian-user@lists.debian.org
> and then by DATA
>   From: "Somebody Else" 

I do not see why not; it is part of DATA.

[...]

> > > Nevertheless, if i have no other indication then i normally add a "Cc:"
> > > to the thread starter if i do not see LDOSUBSCRIBER among the spam tests.
> 
> > On the basis, one supposes, that the situation is unclear and you wish
> > the poster to know there is a reply to her post.
> 
> It is futile to send Cc: to people who are known to reply to list messages.
> But thread starters where i am in doubt get a Cc: from me if i have
> something to tell them.

You are kinder than I am! I assume no LDOSUBSCRIBER means the user
is reading replies. Unfortunarely, there are some users who never
see any replies because they don't quite appreciate how mailing
lists work and anticipate receiving personal mails.

-- 
Brian.

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 October 2019 12:40:00 Dan Purgert wrote:

>  wrote:
> > Greetings All,
> >
> > Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired
> > computer specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows
> > world.  I do have a passing knowledge of Unix.
> >
> > I am attempting my first install of Debian and I must be missing
> > something from the Install Guide.  I was under the impression if I
> > copied the dvd image to a usb stick, I could boot from the stick and
> > start the install.
> >
> > Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb
> > drive in order to begin the install for Debian?
>
> If I'm understanding you properly, yes.  You need to take it from an
> "iso image" and actually have the data itself on the USB key (for lack
> of a better word, you need to "burn the image" to the USB key).
>
> I think Win10 can do this natively through the right-click context
> menus (essentially right-click the ISO -> select the "burn disc image"
> option, then select your USB drive as the target).  Bear in mind that
> I haven't used Windows in ages, so I might be off the mark here.
>
> > I have tried on two different computers and I am receiving the
> > following message when I boot from the USB drive:
> >
> > Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD C C 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al
> >
> > Error: No configuration file found
> >
> > No default or u/I configuration directive found!
> >
> > Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso
> > images to the 32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?
>
> That could definitely be a problem, especially if you "properly"
> burned the images to the USB, they'd have overwritten each other.

Each "iso" is a self-contained disk image. said another way, if you look 
at the contents of that usb drive, and see a file whose name ends 
in .iso, its burnt wrong, you should see the contents of that iso. It is 
a complete file system useing the iso9660 file system, designed to work 
with the spiral tracks, from the inside out, of the optical medium. 
burning it to the usb drive in raw mode, leaves an image that looks 
normal to a non-iso9660 file system. Done right, you see the contents, 
but not the iso file.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[goleo .]

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 4:41 PM Jonathan Dowland
 wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 03:46:53AM +0300, goleo . wrote:
> >Liar, you are the one being abusive. I am being rude for a right reason.
>
> Presumably you posted to debian-user@ in the hope of getting help.
> With this attitude I can assure you help will be in short supply.
>

I posted to publicly state that Debian developers are assholes, but
now I see that Debian users are assholes too (just like religious cult
of Theo de Raadt which we know as OpenBSD).

The problem I describe is not a concrete package issue, it is the
concrete package manager issue, only frauds would make it work
like this.

I helped myself by installing Manjaro Linux, it offers:
- full control out of the box;
- unlike Arch Linux it has cgo, I can reuse C in Go;
- user-friendly packages names;
- no division of "free" and "non-free" (open source is crap anyway);
- drivers are preconfigured perfectly;
- unlike Debian and Ubuntu it doesn't lag;
- doesn't force me to be system administrator, I concentrate on
  real problems, not the ones made up by retards developing
  distro.

The only reason I prefer Linux over Windows is because I have
less painful development environment, it doesn't discriminate C
programmers, but after 4 years of tinkering Arch Linux, Void Linux,
Parabola Linux, OpenBSD, DragonFly BSD, FreeBSD and NetBSD
I can say this: open source sucks, but Debian fucks!!!

> --
> Jonathan Dowland
> ✎   j...@dow.land
>   https://jmtd.net

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Dan Ritter]

lwhona...@gmail.com wrote: 
> 
> Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired computer
> specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows world.  I do have
> a passing knowledge of Unix.

Good news: you're not the only blind Linux user on this list. If
it helps, the installer has support for braille terminals and speech
output.

> Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso images to the
> 32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?

Yes. You want to copy the first DVD image only, to the raw disk.

If you were starting from another UNIX machine, you might be
doing something like:

dd if=Debian_image.iso  of=/dev/sdc

Where /dev/sdc indicates the unpartitioned destination disk, not
a partition on it (which would be sdc1 or sdc2 ...)

-dsr-

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[A . Söldner]

Am 07.10.2019 um 18:26 schrieb lwhona...@gmail.com:


Greetings All,

Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired
computer specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows
world.  I do have a passing knowledge of Unix.

I am attempting my first install of Debian and I must be missing
something from the Install Guide.  I was under the impression

, if I copied the dvd image to a usb stick, I could boot from the
stick and start the install.

Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb
drive in order to begin the install for Debian?

I have tried on two different computers and I am receiving the
following message when I boot from the USB drive:

Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD © © 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al

Error: No configuration file found

No default or u/I configuration directive found!

Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso images
to the 32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?

Any thoughts or pointers would be welcome. Thank you.

Larry Honaker

lwhona...@gmail.com 


Hi there,

I think you've to make the USB-Stick bootable and write the first ISO to
the Stick.

Regards

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 10:01:31 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Patrick Bartek writes:
> > Welcome to the Wonderful Hell of Dependencies.  
> 
> That's not dependency hell.  Dependency hell is what we had before
> package management systems.  I assure you that occasionally permitting
> the installation of a program you don't need is preferable by far.

They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved, more
or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has discovered
and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life . . . and
software. ;-)

B

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

 wrote:
>
> Greetings All,
>
> Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired
> computer specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows
> world.  I do have a passing knowledge of Unix.
>
> I am attempting my first install of Debian and I must be missing something
> from the Install Guide.  I was under the impression if I copied the
> dvd image to a usb stick, I could boot from the stick and start the
> install.
>
> Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb
> drive in order to begin the install for Debian?

If I'm understanding you properly, yes.  You need to take it from an
"iso image" and actually have the data itself on the USB key (for lack
of a better word, you need to "burn the image" to the USB key). 

I think Win10 can do this natively through the right-click context menus
(essentially right-click the ISO -> select the "burn disc image"
option, then select your USB drive as the target).  Bear in mind that I
haven't used Windows in ages, so I might be off the mark here.

>
> I have tried on two different computers and I am receiving the following
> message when I boot from the USB drive:
>
> Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD C C 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al
>
> Error: No configuration file found
>
> No default or u/I configuration directive found!
>
> Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso images
> to the 32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?

That could definitely be a problem, especially if you "properly" burned
the images to the USB, they'd have overwritten each other.


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl2bal8ACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooFBvAf/chfiElSHC5nF73oQPlvZQXjxf3fm/C9zuhZamuQLXLsyKN5POBRRZtX0
RwydjtwWbvQ4WMp7ZJ0J77NdZBwIygPFkOCiDcJ354X2B0NrxqT0ilVALgGSk0nY
GcL1lL6CUSs22bVPTUoTfVhxhWLwKyu+X9kNt4IZqgDrw5S8+bimioo9zsjtdw+M
tZ0OAyEoXA22E3mo4e2zG7f2OUAuNYtZ3Bv72EOndUjcTbK1PN83YYP3UNnOVZQV
Na5pMieQPAh945uSjL1+Pqo5x/ZLjTWXl8dH672OpTD44eS3tfn5mXWgz5538SbY
hOZREHdz0HB4QlMGJ9PGYHrm8cmRqQ==
=drTs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[john doe]

On 10/7/2019 6:26 PM, lwhona...@gmail.com wrote:
> Greetings All,
>
>
>
> Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired computer
> specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows world.  I do have
> a passing knowledge of Unix.
>
>
>
> I am attempting my first install of Debian and I must be missing something
> from the Install Guide.  I was under the impression
>
> , if I copied the dvd image to a usb stick, I could boot from the stick and
> start the install.
>
>
>
> Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb drive in
> order to begin the install for Debian?
>

No, only the first cd/dvd is required to install Debian.

>
>
> I have tried on two different computers and I am receiving the following
> message when I boot from the USB drive:
>
>
>
> Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD C C 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al
>
> Error: No configuration file found
>
> No default or u/I configuration directive found!
>
>
>
> Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso images to the
> 32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?
>
>
>

Try to install Debian with the first dvd iso that you have.

--
John Doe

Re: Dependencies et al

[Linux-Fan]

John Hasler writes:


Reco writes:
> The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
> confused by metapackages.

I think that most users are totally ignorant of the nature or even the
existence of metapackages.  As far as they are concerned the Lxqt
package *is* Lxqt and there is no way to get Lxqt other than to install
that package.  I don't see any effective way to explain it to them,
either.

It's not clear to me why metapackages don't make more use of Recommends,
though.  I understand that DE users expect a DE to provide an archiver,
but why does Lxqt *require* one?  Isn't installation of Recommends still
turned on by default?  Perhaps there's a need for "Weak-Depends" such
that Weak-Depends will always be installed but can be removed with no
more than a warning?  This would be used whenever the maintainer cannot
imagine why anyone would want to install package A and not package B,
but A doesn't absolutely require B.  All or almost all of the
dependencies in metapackages would then be weak.


I had wondered about the very same thing for multiple times already, but
this clear explanation above (thank you very much, John) has given me a good
opportunity to search the documentation for why meta-packages use Depends
instead of recommends. The best explanation I found so far is this:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch06.en.html#bpp-meta

Citing from that:
| 6.7.10. Best practices for meta-packages
| A meta-package is a mostly empty package that makes it easy to install a
| coherent set of packages that can evolve over time. It achieves this by
| depending on all the packages of the set. Thanks to the power of APT, the
| meta-package maintainer can adjust the dependencies and the user's system
| will automatically get the supplementary packages. The dropped packages
| that were automatically installed will be also be marked as removal
| candidates (and are even automatically removed by aptitude).
| gnome and linux-image-amd64 are two examples of meta-packages [...]

If I understand it correctly, meta-packages use Depends because this allows
packages like the kernel meta-package to function correctly: Changing a
Depends to a newer kernel version will cause older kernels to automatically
be uninstalled.

From my point of view, this clearly explains why the kernel meta-package
should make use of Depends fields, but for Desktop Environments, the
advantage of having a Depends is less clear to me:

On the one hand, it is an advantage that just removing the Desktop
Environment package will uninstall all related programs because this allows
trying them out and uninstalling them afterwards without leaving many
programs installed. On the other hand, the case of a user wanting to install
a desktop environment but "without this and that" is not possible with the
current design of meta-packages. Also, while I can generally think of cases
where names of packages that constitute a Desktop Environment change, from
a users point of view I would prefer not to propagate that change to
existing users, because they might be used to and happy with the previous
set of programs.

I can think of another good reason for having Depends: Ease of support.
Suppose there is someone asking for a complete Desktop Environment. As of
now, one just installs the meta-package. If it is already installed, one can
be pretty sure that all necessary programs are already on the system (they
might need to be activated by choosing a session in a display manager or
such). Thinking of a case where everything is just Recommends, it would be
possible that dependency problems (however they occurred in the first place)
cause a lot of the Desktop Environment to be missing but the meta-package
would still be installed leaving a "defective" (in terms of expected
programs to be available) installation without clear indication of the
why... I am, however, not sure if this problem is actually specific to
meta-packages but affects the whole system of Recommends?

YMMV
Linux-Fan

New Linux User needs some guidance

[lwhonaker]

Greetings All,

 

Briefly, I am a new Linux want-to-be.  I am totally blind, retired computer
specialist with most of my work experience in the Windows world.  I do have
a passing knowledge of Unix.

 

I am attempting my first install of Debian and I must be missing something
from the Install Guide.  I was under the impression

, if I copied the dvd image to a usb stick, I could boot from the stick and
start the install.

 

Do I need something else other than the iso image on a 32 GB thumb drive in
order to begin the install for Debian?

 

I have tried on two different computers and I am receiving the following
message when I boot from the USB drive:

 

Syslinux 4.03 2010-10-22 EDD C C 1994-2010 H. Peter Aanvin et al

Error: No configuration file found

No default or u/I configuration directive found!

 

Maybe I went too far, in that I copied the first three dvd iso images to the
32 GB stick.  Is that an issue?

 

Any thoughts or pointers would be welcome.  Thank you.

 

Larry Honaker

 

lwhona...@gmail.com  

 

Re: Dependencies et al

[John Hasler]

Reco writes:
> The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
> confused by metapackages.

I think that most users are totally ignorant of the nature or even the
existence of metapackages.  As far as they are concerned the Lxqt
package *is* Lxqt and there is no way to get Lxqt other than to install
that package.  I don't see any effective way to explain it to them,
either.

It's not clear to me why metapackages don't make more use of Recommends,
though.  I understand that DE users expect a DE to provide an archiver,
but why does Lxqt *require* one?  Isn't installation of Recommends still
turned on by default?  Perhaps there's a need for "Weak-Depends" such
that Weak-Depends will always be installed but can be removed with no
more than a warning?  This would be used whenever the maintainer cannot
imagine why anyone would want to install package A and not package B,
but A doesn't absolutely require B.  All or almost all of the
dependencies in metapackages would then be weak.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[David Wright]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 16:03:21 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:32:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:59:31 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of 
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* 
> > > > > > > replying to
> > > > > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP 
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > > > > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > > > > > list mails.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > > > > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> > > > 
> > > > What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?
> > > 
> > > Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk 
> > > e-mail.
> > > Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some 
> > > conclusion.
> > 
> > Your theorising is interesting and doesn't really answer the question.
> 
> Because if you make a certain statement, the burden of proof lies on you.
> Now that you have answered own question,
> 
> 
> > That address is not subscribed to the list and plays no part in routeing
> > mails to or from the list.
> 
> Yet e-mails with that address at From: do have X-Spam-Status: LDOSUBSCRIBER. 
> Whenever list e-mail is delivered at another e-mail is hardly relevant.
> 
> Please show a e-mail from the list subscriber that does not have
> aforementioned attribute, then we'll have something to talk about.

Dead easy. Just configure your email system so that the envelope-from
does not match your subscribed address. All my list postings lacked
LDOSUBSCRIBER until April last year for that reason. Judging by one
of the threads I contributed to at that time, I expect that this is
when I changed my domain's name from nothing to "corp", and stopped
exim from nagging me about my FQDN.

AIUI .corp became a TLD pariah earlier that year, having been
suggested for use, for example, in RFC 6762. I use it merely because
you seem to get fewest "false hits" when you  #  grep -r corp /etc
as compared with the alternatives, home and mail.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/12/icann_corp_home_mail_gtlds/

Cheers,
David.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

John Hasler wrote:
> Patrick Bartek writes:
>> Welcome to the Wonderful Hell of Dependencies.
>
> That's not dependency hell.  Dependency hell is what we had before
> package management systems.  I assure you that occasionally permitting
> the installation of a program you don't need is preferable by far.

If you add the right (wrong?) repos, you can put yourself back into
dependency hell.  It's getting more difficult to do so, but people still
manage :)


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl2bW+QACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooE1TQgApFO3HlmxbxYQVEvikEhwKzftmMgC4hsj6cv2Zgar8lkA03tbX3ppzxNe
EGTrKgbl7hKxX0XH9lsgvdVmJ2S1A4HxUbVTZqH0/LpcPQJCVjTfQ2xdpArPOCL6
bZ9NeoDXW5bwG8L5g2MsRBSykLHYqgi0uTzX9VM6IahaytZdnUarS6Ea58G9B57p
80YPnUrFWxeqqf3JdkrmrMMEliLqBpzkE+R1buPWnScAGtyK8es/N54ahuBhKm0l
aHN0+LA5gCkUHIU7LbtrR5em/FTl12sOc2cEX3p9++5fSkA2/mAkVti05mT6u/CC
P8z4pb02I/hHhNiHlFbI4Qs+GgEldQ==
=xDXc
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Reco wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:08:04PM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Reco wrote:
 I don't think anything needs to be done here -- the whole idea of
 (meta)packages is that you give up some choice for the benefits of not
 having to deal with dependency hell.  
>>>
>>> I disagree. The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
>>> confused by metapackages.
>> 
>> So then the education needs to be fixed, not the material.  I mean, at
>> one point in our lives, we were all confused by what we'd consider
>> "simple mathematics" nowadays.
>
> And we both know it does not work this way, although it should.
> One could write thousand words in the documentation, explaining
> everything in the finest detail possible. But if no one is reading the
> documentation - is there a meaning in all this work?
>
> Hence my suggestion. Users are confused already, and it won't get
> better. I have no problem filling a wishlist bugreport, but I like to
> estimate the possible users' reaction.

The ultimate underlying problem is that in this case, the user didn't
like that the package wanted to force a specific set of programs on the
system.

Now, yes, there are what sound like technical inconsistencies in the
packages (i.e. they're not actually "required" by anything other than
this metapackage itself); although it seems to be that the general user
expectation would be that a DE supplies some form of archive handling
capabilities.

Whether or not that's extraneous to the user's preferred software is
another question entirely -- I mean, I have cthulhu-knows how many
different programs installed simply from core-utils.  I probably touch
but a fraction of them, and yet they're still here.  Not to mention all
the "extras" that come along with say groff, or LaTeX.

>> [...]
>> I think I worded the response here poorly.
>> ...
>> engrampa. Of those, I assume that all three provide the necessary
>> "provides xyzzy" information (e.g. how installing postfix or exim
>> "provides" /usr/sbin/sendmail) to allow generic graphical tools to hook
>> ...
>
> No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.
>
> I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
> Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.

Certainly shows my limited understanding of how it all fits together,
that's for sure :).

> About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
> GUI archivers.
> I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
> dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.

I might've deleted it in editing somewhere, I was operating under the
assumption that "a gui archiver" is a required component of a "complete
DE" (for some value of "complete", anyway).

>
>
>> In either event, I think one of the mails mentioned wanting to use
>> peaZip, which isn't even available in the repos, so it doesn't matter
>> anyway; as APT would never be able to do dependency resolution.
>
> Why, apt certainly can do it. It's just requires the user to package
> PeaZip first ☺

He's having a hard enough time with packages, that're already available
in the repos.  This is just mean :D

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl2bW1kACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooHVbQf+NYtIWL4LMpk3GPENOaNmajaI6sVZwZ9x7llydHfxh+cDdPL5myLwBojd
mAAbEBRvvafTE8WxEG7cBeqzQ/mNvW7LSa586kJfChJx32mnnAqU1Dkigal5n/69
JV6yRlV0BR6TrgiEQXsGRIbCkadOnA6GQBa0xSTzCL2DWGgK2Odk7ab4ESWUHZKc
4IqvRChJr9hBhl9R+li+R2PcJI91jgqXXzqMuEeAAE1h0Y+73phHxMqkF4otmfru
kPBTNWYieOEfybuMigXkfIj9j0vb4bJffL6LHrDmi2+14YpmzImTIre3g9C7fjEh
jfKyiOaSh4cVQb27OYd6iorieHZbFQ==
=wH7V
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: checking ssh server is running

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:00:43PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> Are all [systemd] services daemons ?

No.  Systemd services have "types".  Some of these types (simple, forking)
can reasonably be called daemons, because they run a program, or suite
of programs, which is expected to stick around for a while.

Other types (oneshot) are most likely not running a long-lived program.
They may do something like adding a network route, mounting a file
system, removing old log files, etc.  The program only runs long enough
to do whatever it's supposed to do, and then it terminates.

Re: Python 3 as default

[Sven Hartge]

Glenn Holmer  wrote:

> Is it safe to set Python 3 as the default in Buster, or are there
> system programs that still need to run under Python 2?

Setting python3 as the default python interpreter is not supported in
Buster. Doing so will break your system.

Besides: /usr/bin/python is defined as being python2.x, the interpreter
for Python3 is always /usr/bin/python3.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[John Hasler]

Patrick Bartek writes:
> Welcome to the Wonderful Hell of Dependencies.

That's not dependency hell.  Dependency hell is what we had before
package management systems.  I assure you that occasionally permitting
the installation of a program you don't need is preferable by far.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: checking ssh server is running

[mick crane]

On 2019-10-07 14:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 08:42:51PM +0100, mick crane wrote:

after checking through /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the server
basic use is
systemctl start sshd.service
systemctl stop sshd.service
systemctl restart sshd.service
systemctl enable sshd.service ( should start sshd at boot )
systemctl disable sshd.service (should stop sshd at boot )


While these commands may work, it's worth pointing out that the service
name is actually ssh.service.  sshd.service is just an alias name for 
it.


In most situations, that won't matter, but if you attempt to make a
drop-in configuration directory to change the unit file, you WILL need
to use the correct service name.  I found this out the hard way, so I
thought I'd mention it to help others avoid the same pains.


so it is.
Are all services daemons ?

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Python 3 as default

[Glenn Holmer]

Is it safe to set Python 3 as the default in Buster, or are there system
programs that still need to run under Python 2?

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

Sorl

[Joan Cervan]

Hola,

En una web que porto, amb drupal, les cerques son molt lentes, i la
sol·lució natural és deixar de banda la cerca en BBDD i usar Apache
Sorl.

D'entrada pensava simplement agafar un servidor (VPS o cloud), amb 8Gb
de RAM, 4 o 8 processadors i 100 o 200Gb de disc SSD, bàsicament perquè
em penso que son els paràmetres que li van bé a java i Sorl (no hi ha
formules màgiques de "requeriments mínims, etc.", perquè depèn molt de
la quantitat d'info a indexar, el volum de cerques a fer, etc. Els meus
requisits, potser amb excepció de la quantitat d'info, i ni això, no
son molt alts (em penso), i per tant volia tirar de la configuració
superior i plantejar-me el servidor per donar servei a clients
diversos...

Però el que estic veient és que, com tot, això del Sorl és una ciència
i no tinc clar si optar per un SaaS (acostumen a ser cars) o opcions
preinstal·lades / modulars (he vist per sobre Bitnami). De moment
encara vaig una mica peix, i només us ho comentava per si algú de
valtros en te experiència, en això del Sorl, o les JVE i em podia
orientar (per acabar-ho d'adobar he descobert per a què serveix Tomcat,
i ara tinc un dubte més: muntar Sorl sobre Tomcat a Debian? Te sentit,
això? És una alternativa més lliure que muntar-ho amb el java
d'Oracle??

Apa, ja em direu,

Salutacions,

-- 
Joan Cervan Andreu
Desenvolupament web / Web developer
Drupal - Moodle - CiviCRM
+34 635 40 31 04
https://www.calbasi.net

Re: Debian 10 Installation -Boot

[David Wright]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:20:17 (+1030), Paul Dabrowski wrote:
> Folks,
> I have been using Debian 9 in a multi-boot setup for quite some time with a
> great deal of satisfaction. The basic set up was:
> Windows 7 (for the infrequent use by other family members)
> Debian 9 (living on /dev/sda5; used very often by me for work)
> Siduction (living on /dev/sda8; mainly for goofing off and experimentation)
> Note: /home is on a separate partition for some of the obvious reasons.
> 
> I was able to multi-boot between these very nicely with a minimum of fuss.

Is this all BIOS booting, or is EFI involved? (I don't know about the
latter, and am not sure if you can distinguish then from the grub.cfg
contents.)

> Recently I figured that I should move across to Debian 10 and take
> advantage of updates and other progress-like stuff. I decided to install
> Debian 10 onto /dev/sda8 (stomp over Siduction) and transition to it
> gradually from Debian 9 - in my mind a fairly reasonable plan.
> 
> The installation went fairly steadily, as I would have expected based on
> past experience. The installer reached the point where the other operating
> system were detected (a good sign to me); interestingly the displayed
> information said that grub would set up one other OS along with the current
> installed system Debian 10. I went ahead and completed the installation and
> got Debian 10 to boot successfully.
> 
> However (don't you hate the word?), when trying out the other multi-boot
> options I found that the pre-existing Debian 9 would not boot - the Windows
> 7 booted OK. The choice for selecting and booting from Debian 9 was being
> presented but when selected there is just a blank screen and a flashing
> cursor.

Have you checked that your 9 installation is intact—presumably you
mount it from 10 so you can peruse your previous configuration files.

> I'm guessing that Grub might have chosen to ignore Debian 9 (a generous
> excuse) or something else has gone astray. I have attached the grub.cfg
> files from the Debian 9 and Debian 10 installations; I don't have the
> background (or time and willingness to become a grub expert) to examine
> these for meaningful differences. I'm hoping that they may be more
> enlightening to you folk.

As you pointed out, the 9 entry is presented to you, so it hasn't been
ignored. But I notice that you boot very "quietly", so I assume you
waited long enough after selecting 9 for any disk checking or whatever
to complete.

I edit the line in /etc/default/grub to read
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="systemd.show_status=true quiet"
so that I see more of the action when booting. If you do this, it will
probably only affect the lines for your 10 system in /boot/grub/grub.cfg,
so one way to effect this when you boot 9 is to select the 9 system in
Grub's menu and press e, move to the linux line and add the option at
the end of the line, so that it ends in:
  quiet systemd.show_status=true
and then press F10 to boot.

> What I would appreciate very much:
> 1. Some simple and straightforward instruction on how to enable the grub
> booting mechanism to allow me to boot Debian 9. If it was doable before, it
> should be doable now.
> 2. Not to expend an excessive amount of time going to and fro trying out
> poorly conceived suggestions.
> 3. I would hope that this might inform you of a possible malfunction in the
> structure of the Debian installer and that it can be remedied successfully
> - as said before, this wasn't an issue in the past.
> 
> This was something of an unexpected and 'bummer' outcome; I have enjoyed
> using Debian in the past and look forward to using it in the future. So far
> my enthusiasm for Debian/Linux is not dented.

Comparing your two grub files and my own doesn't reveal anything to
me, though I've never used Grub's themes myself. (Your 9 kernel looks
somewhat old, but perhaps you haven't been able to run 9 for a month.)

Depending on your specific graphics cards, you can get differences
between older and newer distributions. But I've typically seen boot
messages before things mess up. Some people have reported that adding
nomodeset to the kernel line (in the same way as above) can help, so
it might be worth trying that. Any changes you make in the menu in
this way will only affect the one boot, so it's safe to try things out.

Cheers,
David.

[resolu] Re: [testing] ecran noir apres mise a jour

[Gaëtan Perrier]

Le samedi 05 octobre 2019 à 13:33 +0200, Gaëtan PERRIER a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> 
> Je viens de faire la mise à jour du jour de testing et quand j'ouvre ma
> session
> gnome, j'obtiens un écran noir avec juste le curseur de la souris ...
> Ça dit quelque chose à quelqu'un ?
> 
> Gaëtan


gnome-shell 3.34 venant d'intégrer testing le problème est résolu.

Gaëtan


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Email based attack on University

[tomas]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 02:46:54PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 12:10:14PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >I'm pretty confident that they'll work. Firstly, Jonathan
> >knows his stuff.
> 
> that's generous, thank you!

C'mon. Thank *you* for your work on Debian. *That* is generous.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Email based attack on University

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 12:10:14PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

I'm pretty confident that they'll work. Firstly, Jonathan
knows his stuff.


that's generous, thank you!

--
  Jonathan Dowland
✎   j...@dow.land
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Email based attack on University

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 10:49:01AM +1100, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
Well I think the bash line means that the bash command uses ~/whatever 
as data (which it could do without the x switch?) like any program 
does with data files. I wasn't aware of this. I read later the the -c 
is not necessary, and wonder if the "s are necessary.


The quotes are only necessary if the path to the binary you want to
invoke are necessary. I use them out of habit, although I forgot that
'~' is not expanded within quotes. Using "$HOME/whatever" instead would
have worked.

-c is key here, because I'm not assuming that ~/whatever is a shell
script. This is telling the shell interpreter to run the command,
whatever it may be. But, as pointed out elsewhere, "noexec" does indeed
defeat running a binary via bash in this exact manner.


The 3rd suggestion is still a mystery.


That's a loader binary that loads and executes a binary supplied as an
argument. It's actually invoked under the hood whenever you run a
binary. But again as pointed out elsewhere "noexec" defeats this direct
approach; one needs to introduce more indirection.


--
  Jonathan Dowland
✎   j...@dow.land
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 16:03:21 +0300, Reco wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:32:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:59:31 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of 
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* 
> > > > > > > replying to
> > > > > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP 
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > > > > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > > > > > list mails.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > > > > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> > > > 
> > > > What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?
> > > 
> > > Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk 
> > > e-mail.
> > > Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some 
> > > conclusion.
> > 
> > Your theorising is interesting and doesn't really answer the question.
> 
> Because if you make a certain statement, the burden of proof lies on you.
> Now that you have answered own question,

The statement was about the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER, not its presence.
As Thomas says - a user could be subscribed with another address.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 03:46:53AM +0300, goleo . wrote:

Liar, you are the one being abusive. I am being rude for a right reason.


Presumably you posted to debian-user@ in the hope of getting help.
With this attitude I can assure you help will be in short supply.

--
  Jonathan Dowland
✎   j...@dow.land
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:08:04PM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Reco wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:56:33AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> >> > 3) Synaptic did not provide a user a meaningful choice.
> >> > [...]
> >> > I'm not saying that Synaptic should be transformed to aptitude (which is
> >> > famous for its multi-choice resolver), we have one aptitude already,
> >> > please leave it this way. But showing the *reason* of such replacement,
> >> > i.e. "lxqt package demands that you will have some archiver installed"
> >> > would be a definite step in right direction.
> >> 
> >> I don't think anything needs to be done here -- the whole idea of
> >> (meta)packages is that you give up some choice for the benefits of not
> >> having to deal with dependency hell.  
> >
> > I disagree. The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
> > confused by metapackages.
> 
> So then the education needs to be fixed, not the material.  I mean, at
> one point in our lives, we were all confused by what we'd consider
> "simple mathematics" nowadays.

And we both know it does not work this way, although it should.
One could write thousand words in the documentation, explaining
everything in the finest detail possible. But if no one is reading the
documentation - is there a meaning in all this work?

Hence my suggestion. Users are confused already, and it won't get
better. I have no problem filling a wishlist bugreport, but I like to
estimate the possible users' reaction.


> >> > 4) Metapackages tend to have restrictive dependencies.
> >> >
> > [...]
> >> According to the "similar packages" lists of the three options in the
> >> Bullseye package listings, it looks like there are a handful of other
> >> alternatives that the package maintainer "might" have chosen as
> >> alternates / in addition to the three that he did.  But, then I don't
> >> know enough about those packages (e.g. file-roller, or p7zip) to say
> >> whether they'd actually work -- that is, whether they provide the
> >> ability for the other "default" applications to hook into / be compiled
> >> against.
> >
> > That's somewhat different problem. Certain applications (terminal
> > emulators, browsers to name a few) provide a virtual packages such as
> > x-terminal-emulator or x-www-browser to save the trouble of listing all
> > the possible alternatives in a package dependencies. Reduces the amount
> > of bugs if some package leaves the archive too.
> > But I see no virtual package that means "I'm an archive utility with
> > GUI".
> 
> I think I worded the response here poorly.
> ...
> engrampa. Of those, I assume that all three provide the necessary
> "provides xyzzy" information (e.g. how installing postfix or exim
> "provides" /usr/sbin/sendmail) to allow generic graphical tools to hook
> ...

No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.

I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.
About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
GUI archivers.
I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.


> In either event, I think one of the mails mentioned wanting to use
> peaZip, which isn't even available in the repos, so it doesn't matter
> anyway; as APT would never be able to do dependency resolution.

Why, apt certainly can do it. It's just requires the user to package
PeaZip first ☺

Reco

Re: checking ssh server is running

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 08:42:51PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> after checking through /etc/ssh/sshd_config on the server
> basic use is
> systemctl start sshd.service
> systemctl stop sshd.service
> systemctl restart sshd.service
> systemctl enable sshd.service ( should start sshd at boot )
> systemctl disable sshd.service (should stop sshd at boot )

While these commands may work, it's worth pointing out that the service
name is actually ssh.service.  sshd.service is just an alias name for it.

In most situations, that won't matter, but if you attempt to make a
drop-in configuration directory to change the unit file, you WILL need
to use the correct service name.  I found this out the hard way, so I
thought I'd mention it to help others avoid the same pains.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Reco wrote:
>   Hi.
>
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:56:33AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> > 3) Synaptic did not provide a user a meaningful choice.
>> > [...]
>> > I'm not saying that Synaptic should be transformed to aptitude (which is
>> > famous for its multi-choice resolver), we have one aptitude already,
>> > please leave it this way. But showing the *reason* of such replacement,
>> > i.e. "lxqt package demands that you will have some archiver installed"
>> > would be a definite step in right direction.
>> 
>> I don't think anything needs to be done here -- the whole idea of
>> (meta)packages is that you give up some choice for the benefits of not
>> having to deal with dependency hell.  
>
> I disagree. The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
> confused by metapackages.

So then the education needs to be fixed, not the material.  I mean, at
one point in our lives, we were all confused by what we'd consider
"simple mathematics" nowadays.

>
>
>> I'm not sure what "lxqt" needs across the board, but I imagine that
>> since it wants one or the other archive program, there are one or more
>> other packages built against them.
>
> Does not seem to be the case. One of "lxqt"'s dependencies, "ark" is a
> KDE archive utility. Or so is says in the description.
> Another one, "enrgampa", comes from MATE.
> "lxqt" is a typical metapackage, listing some totally unrelated programs
> with dependencies that could fit a certain role, and said programs do
> not come with LXQT.

Fair enough.

>
>
>> > 4) Metapackages tend to have restrictive dependencies.
>> >
> [...]
>> According to the "similar packages" lists of the three options in the
>> Bullseye package listings, it looks like there are a handful of other
>> alternatives that the package maintainer "might" have chosen as
>> alternates / in addition to the three that he did.  But, then I don't
>> know enough about those packages (e.g. file-roller, or p7zip) to say
>> whether they'd actually work -- that is, whether they provide the
>> ability for the other "default" applications to hook into / be compiled
>> against.
>
> That's somewhat different problem. Certain applications (terminal
> emulators, browsers to name a few) provide a virtual packages such as
> x-terminal-emulator or x-www-browser to save the trouble of listing all
> the possible alternatives in a package dependencies. Reduces the amount
> of bugs if some package leaves the archive too.
> But I see no virtual package that means "I'm an archive utility with
> GUI".

I think I worded the response here poorly.  

As I understand things - "lxqt" requires one of three options for an "X
based compression tool" (presumably as a requirement of a "complete(tm)
DE" or similar line of thought).  The package maintainer has determined
that there are three that fit the bill -> xarchiver(default), ark, or
engrampa. Of those, I assume that all three provide the necessary
"provides xyzzy" information (e.g. how installing postfix or exim
"provides" /usr/sbin/sendmail) to allow generic graphical tools to hook
against them without needing to have compile-time options set.

Therefore, we end up with a few things we can take away:

  1. Three options is all the package maintainer can keep track of (in
  addition to everything else).
  2. Three options was deemed "enough" by the package maintainer.
  3. The other options (e.g. pz7ip) do not provide the aforementioned 
  "hooks" required by something else.
  4. The other options (e.g. p7zip) are actually part of non-free and 
  I missed that somewhere :)

In either event, I think one of the mails mentioned wanting to use
peaZip, which isn't even available in the repos, so it doesn't matter
anyway; as APT would never be able to do dependency resolution.


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl2bOLIACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooHZpQf/TfzcasWcOtdYzOI4j+UQOF9qx5OhHXAu3aGVqq0ToczURaEx0p3XxgIv
OjNGRLj3Sy6Fe/uJGzGcubCuHLAlezT0CpSFUM5HNhHxboiZo+CQfbwF0sBrcgxo
I5CLOg60T9etOg/QstqpwFM3IXEJpQfjlFpT+h/2mF0oS+0cywo4Dj7VlMDNF4VD
nV6WRiIaNFGezMtwQLuGkeERWsZt7AjLrZuK4UFwBe8JQw1aviuD7e20fr6zWND6
ePeN1ea1DEIa1l2ZoWXqJetMkHOtGpjG1bNMgn91BUIfrw3sxZCFe0MoxyKA6V/S
7ZjR/SYTURDHQ4xbb3Y/K+GYWnFRiQ==
=EpKU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > To my best knowledge, "X-Spam-Status: ... tests=...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,..."
> > says that the "From:" address of the mail is subscribed.

Brian wrote:
> Are you sure it is the From: and not the envelope From? My From: is
> not subscribed.

Interesting observation.
So the address by which you submit your mail to the remote server is
subscribed and it is not the "From:" address which your mail client
writes into the header part of the mail ?

I wonder whether my mail provider would allow me to send via SMTP
  MAIL FROM:
  RCPT TO:debian-user@lists.debian.org
and then by DATA
  From: "Somebody Else" 

But how do Debian list servers know ?
Is it because Exim 4.89 said "MAIL FROM:<...subscribed.address...>" to
lists.debian.org ?
Or is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to its Received:
header ?

  Received: from ... by ... with local (Exim 4.89)
  (envelope-from <...>)
  id 1iHRiB-0006S7-Ks
  for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:01:59 +0100

(I wonder where "envelope-from" in "Received:" is specified. The word
 does neither appear in RFC5322 nor in RFC5321.)


---

> > Nevertheless, if i have no other indication then i normally add a "Cc:"
> > to the thread starter if i do not see LDOSUBSCRIBER among the spam tests.

> On the basis, one supposes, that the situation is unclear and you wish
> the poster to know there is a reply to her post.

It is futile to send Cc: to people who are known to reply to list messages.
But thread starters where i am in doubt get a Cc: from me if i have
something to tell them.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 01:32:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:59:31 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > 
> > > > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > > > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* 
> > > > > > replying to
> > > > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP 
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > > > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > > > > list mails.
> > > > 
> > > > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > > > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> > > 
> > > What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?
> > 
> > Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk e-mail.
> > Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some 
> > conclusion.
> 
> Your theorising is interesting and doesn't really answer the question.

Because if you make a certain statement, the burden of proof lies on you.
Now that you have answered own question,


> That address is not subscribed to the list and plays no part in routeing
> mails to or from the list.

Yet e-mails with that address at From: do have X-Spam-Status: LDOSUBSCRIBER. 
Whenever list e-mail is delivered at another e-mail is hardly relevant.

Please show a e-mail from the list subscriber that does not have
aforementioned attribute, then we'll have something to talk about.

Reco

Re: Email based attack on University

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 12:14:28PM -, Curt wrote:
> On 2019-10-05,   wrote:
> I meant
> 
>  bash -c "~/whatever"
> 
> appears to be faulty (for one reason or another.

For two reasons.

First, the -c.  That's been explained already.
Second, the quotes around the tilde cause tilde expansion not to be done.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Curt]

On 2019-10-07, Reco  wrote:
>
> 1) Call me old-fashioned, but posters' personalities should not matter
> here, at this list.

I don't see what is old-fashioned about your opinion here. I would think
it were the gentilities of polite discourse that have become outmoded
(as demonstrated finely by the OP), and your view that good breeding is
somehow immaterial the new-fangled thing.

> Whenever a OP is a teen, old person, dog or AI (there are unconfirmed
> sightings of last two posting here ;) is hardly relevant to the problem.
> The language OP is using could definitely use some improvement indeed,
> but discussing OP's personality just because of that is as low as it
> gets.

A person's nature when confronting a problem is entirely relevant to its
solution. A puerile nature blames the stone, and eventually the landscape
architects, when stubbing his toe in the rock garden.

If your objective wisdom is to assert that this specific stone has no
legitimate place in this particular garden and should be removed, well,
that may be true. File the appropriate wish-list bug report with the
architects, who have strived to create an ensemble effect and might not
wish to go without certain elements.

But as the stone in question figures on the map handed out to everyone
before entry, it seems to me it could've been avoided one way or
another by any astute visitor.

-- 
"There are no foreign lands. It is the traveler only who is foreign."
-- Robert Louis Stevenson

Re: Dual boot: one legacy, the other uefi

[sp007]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 17:45:37 -0300
Beco  wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> I have this laptop problem to solve: the original windows 10 is kept,
> shrunk partition to 1TB, originally cryptographied (but now normal).
> The rest was given to Linux, Debian 10: 800GB root and 8.2GB swap.
> 
> Now the system can boot both systems ok. But to choose which one you
> want, you need to enter the BIOS, change legacy to UEFI, and
> vice-versa, then you can boot.
> 
> Not a good way to keep.

When I needed windows I had once succes with rEFInd boot manager,
apt install refind

Always have a rescue USB stick at hand though, windows 10 has
nasty suprises.

Wish you good luck.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:59:31 +0300, Reco wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > [...]
> > > > 
> > > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying 
> > > > > to
> > > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> > > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > > 
> > > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > > > list mails.
> > > 
> > > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> > 
> > What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?
> 
> Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk e-mail.
> Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some 
> conclusion.

Your theorising is interesting and doesn't really answer the question.
That address is not subscribed to the list and plays no part in routeing
mails to or from the list.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:56:33AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > 3) Synaptic did not provide a user a meaningful choice.
> > [...]
> > I'm not saying that Synaptic should be transformed to aptitude (which is
> > famous for its multi-choice resolver), we have one aptitude already,
> > please leave it this way. But showing the *reason* of such replacement,
> > i.e. "lxqt package demands that you will have some archiver installed"
> > would be a definite step in right direction.
> 
> I don't think anything needs to be done here -- the whole idea of
> (meta)packages is that you give up some choice for the benefits of not
> having to deal with dependency hell.  

I disagree. The parent thread shows that at least some of the users are
confused by metapackages.


> I'm not sure what "lxqt" needs across the board, but I imagine that
> since it wants one or the other archive program, there are one or more
> other packages built against them.

Does not seem to be the case. One of "lxqt"'s dependencies, "ark" is a
KDE archive utility. Or so is says in the description.
Another one, "enrgampa", comes from MATE.
"lxqt" is a typical metapackage, listing some totally unrelated programs
with dependencies that could fit a certain role, and said programs do
not come with LXQT.


> > 4) Metapackages tend to have restrictive dependencies.
> >
> > The whole fuss is about the contents of the Depends field of "lxqt".
> > Last, but not least - is there a meaningful reason to use Depends
> > instead of Recommends in metapackages such as "lxqt"? Barring the
> > "gnome" package, I know the answer for it.
> 
> Does it really matter though?
> I mean, there's a basic set of "X-core-utils" that I think can be
> agreed on as required for a full-featured DE.  One of those being
> something that can handle archives.

In the case of the original "problem" - yes it does.
Installing a metapackage with Recommends only would still pull the same
dependencies (by default, that is), but removing one of said
dependencies would not force another one on a user.
Of course it leaves the user without a program to handle archives
(from user's POV), but it may be the desired outcome.

This way flexibility is gained, nothing is lost, user is saved from the
confusion. Am I missing something?


> According to the "similar packages" lists of the three options in the
> Bullseye package listings, it looks like there are a handful of other
> alternatives that the package maintainer "might" have chosen as
> alternates / in addition to the three that he did.  But, then I don't
> know enough about those packages (e.g. file-roller, or p7zip) to say
> whether they'd actually work -- that is, whether they provide the
> ability for the other "default" applications to hook into / be compiled
> against.

That's somewhat different problem. Certain applications (terminal
emulators, browsers to name a few) provide a virtual packages such as
x-terminal-emulator or x-www-browser to save the trouble of listing all
the possible alternatives in a package dependencies. Reduces the amount
of bugs if some package leaves the archive too.
But I see no virtual package that means "I'm an archive utility with
GUI".

Reco

Wiemy, co jest ważne, żeby zbudować optymalną stronę WWW, sprawdź nasze warunki.

[Agencja Kreatywna]

Planujesz zmianę swojej *Strony* lub *Sklepu internetowego*? A może interesuje 
Cię nowy projekt?



Jedno jest pewne, trafiłeś w dobre ręce.

 Odeślij do nas maila z informacją*TAK*,
a my przygotujemy dla Ciebie bezpłatną wycenę.



Nasz Doradca Klienta wytłumaczy Ci sposób działania, po czym przedstawi 
optymalne rozwiązania dla Twojego biznesu.


_ _ _
Strony i Sklepy WWW 
na dobrych warunkach!

Zbuduj z nami stronę lub sklep internetowy, zaufaj fachowcom.

[Agencja Interaktywna]

Planujesz zmianę swojej *Strony* lub *Sklepu internetowego*? A może interesuje 
Cię nowy projekt?



Jedno jest pewne, trafiłeś w dobre ręce.

 Odeślij do nas maila z informacją*Tak*,
a my przygotujemy dla Ciebie bezpłatną wycenę.



Nasz Doradca Klienta wytłumaczy Ci sposób działania, po czym zaproponuje 
optymalne rozwiązania dla Twojego biznesu.


_ _ _
Strony i Sklepy WWW 
na dobrych warunkach!

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 13:53:43 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Reco wrote:

[...]
 
> Brian wrote:
> > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > list mails.
> 
> To my best knowledge, "X-Spam-Status: ... tests=...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,..."
> says that the "From:" address of the mail is subscribed.
> If this sign is missing, the person-like entity which wrote the mail
> could still be subscribed by another address or other means.

Are you sure it is the From: and not the envelope From? My From: is
not subscribed.
 
> Nevertheless, if i have no other indication then i normally add a "Cc:"
> to the thread starter if i do not see LDOSUBSCRIBER among the spam tests.

On the basis, one supposes, that the situation is unclear and you wish
the poster to know there is a reply to her post.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Reco wrote:
>   Hello, list.
>
> It may seem a thread hijacking (and may be it is), but I feel that the
> discussion of OP's problem has taken a wrong turn. Consider this a my
> attempt to put in on a right track ☺.
>
> So I've been reading this thread, and it got me thinking. I know, it's a
> somewhat strange confession to make (☺), but anyway:
> [...]
> 3) Synaptic did not provide a user a meaningful choice.
> [...]
> I'm not saying that Synaptic should be transformed to aptitude (which is
> famous for its multi-choice resolver), we have one aptitude already,
> please leave it this way. But showing the *reason* of such replacement,
> i.e. "lxqt package demands that you will have some archiver installed"
> would be a definite step in right direction.

I don't think anything needs to be done here -- the whole idea of
(meta)packages is that you give up some choice for the benefits of not
having to deal with dependency hell.  

I'm not sure what "lxqt" needs across the board, but I imagine that
since it wants one or the other archive program, there are one or more
other packages built against them.  The only way out of that then would
be to compile the affected programs from source, so that they can call
his preferred archive solution (assuming said solution can be hooked
into by the affected programs).

>
>
> 4) Metapackages tend to have restrictive dependencies.
>
> The whole fuss is about the contents of the Depends field of "lxqt".
> Last, but not least - is there a meaningful reason to use Depends
> instead of Recommends in metapackages such as "lxqt"? Barring the
> "gnome" package, I know the answer for it.

Does it really matter though?  I mean, there's a basic set of
"X-core-utils" that I think can be agreed on as required for a
full-featured DE.  One of those being something that can handle
archives.

According to the "similar packages" lists of the three options in the
Bullseye package listings, it looks like there are a handful of other
alternatives that the package maintainer "might" have chosen as
alternates / in addition to the three that he did.  But, then I don't
know enough about those packages (e.g. file-roller, or p7zip) to say
whether they'd actually work -- that is, whether they provide the
ability for the other "default" applications to hook into / be compiled
against.



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl2bJ+8ACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooEMWAf/foOa4n+9swQggiZCePT8g5htTVxiXeX1wqVoBGEvU19K3py6ZzOB6zvI
bbol5/AHj+Oi3ShALGtDUegY8FvNgOgjR1jnBD7ONHxu19lrjCC2cDIWdAyUltkp
bCQGE4DnXwgu3Mk+SpeM522GtWD/NeX5cJCSTKpdNp4SjuuoJbkA36ntziI/LbSo
Dc3SxgwkuySYTSxNSbW/g4Kx3dcgKfPVZ5Q1oA7weRLzg+s/F75ZoIfXMX7BWAUh
nnQ48yJIi7MnuxUWwaUehiruDgG4kSgk4S7brmPkvqYDq03pmNM0XsuzN+kq4AYg
UM/s8vn2pQA/Jjkf8pLMrtBLgmnuuQ==
=Kw3I
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:50:28PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > 
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
> > > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> > > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > > 
> > > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > > list mails.
> > 
> > You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> > Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.
> 
> What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?

Clearly there are several people that are using a...@cityscape.co.uk e-mail.
Please share the answer to this question once all of you reach some conclusion.

Reco

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Reco wrote:
> > 1) Call me old-fashioned, but posters' personalities should not matter
> > here, at this list. [...]
> > The language OP is using could definitely use some improvement indeed,

It would serve the general issue of constructive discussion.


> > discussing OP's personality just because of that is as low as it gets.

I made up my own theories but refrained from posting them, although i am
now sad about the consequential waste of bad pun and fake commiseration.


> > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
> > e-mail.

Brian wrote:
> The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> list mails.

To my best knowledge, "X-Spam-Status: ... tests=...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,..."
says that the "From:" address of the mail is subscribed.
If this sign is missing, the person-like entity which wrote the mail
could still be subscribed by another address or other means.

Nevertheless, if i have no other indication then i normally add a "Cc:"
to the thread starter if i do not see LDOSUBSCRIBER among the spam tests.

> > Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> > have your reply visible to the list.

... which in this case is indeed my intention because i have nothing
useful to say about the OP's original problem.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 14:11:15 +0300, Reco wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
> > > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> > > have your reply visible to the list.
> > 
> > The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> > definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> > list mails.
> 
> You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
> Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.

What does the lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER tell us?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:39:05AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> > LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
> > e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> > have your reply visible to the list.
> 
> The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
> definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
> list mails.

You'll excuse me if I take your suggestion with a grain of salt.
Just on a basis of your past statements about SMTP protocol.

Reco

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 11:28:03 +0300, Reco wrote:

[...]

> PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
> LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
> e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
> have your reply visible to the list.

The non-existence of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a mails's headers says nothing
definite about whether the poster is subscribed to the list or reads
list mails.

-- 
Brian.

3d acceleration broken out of the box on h/w that has been supported correctly in the past.

[DAVID HAND]

This is present in Buster and Stretch - can't remember precisely when it broke.

Don't know which package maintainer is responsible, have searched a  lot and 
found many similar sounding issues yet not been able to fix it myself, nor find 
active similar bug. Possibly one filed with glx-alternative

The breakage is fairly innocuous - unless your DE tries to do too much - like 
KDE Plasma..  However 360 degree videos will without fail be garbled. (I 
vaguely remember this occurring sometime between Wheezy and Stretch but didn't 
really pay it much attention at the time). Installation of the proprietary 
304xx nvidia driver (in Stretch as no longer included since Buster) changes but 
does not fix the issue.

I get the impression it's something to do with the spaghetti of openGL symbolic 
links, but I'm a little out of my depth.

Would love to get some help to rectify this one way or another.

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[tomas]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 11:28:03AM +0300, Reco wrote:
>   Hello, list.
> 
> It may seem a thread hijacking (and may be it is) [...]

I don't feel so. Thanks for this post.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Reco]

Hello, list.

It may seem a thread hijacking (and may be it is), but I feel that the
discussion of OP's problem has taken a wrong turn. Consider this a my
attempt to put in on a right track ☺.

So I've been reading this thread, and it got me thinking. I know, it's a
somewhat strange confession to make (☺), but anyway:

1) Call me old-fashioned, but posters' personalities should not matter
here, at this list.

Whenever a OP is a teen, old person, dog or AI (there are unconfirmed
sightings of last two posting here ;) is hardly relevant to the problem.
The language OP is using could definitely use some improvement indeed,
but discussing OP's personality just because of that is as low as it
gets.


2) OP claims to use a "Default Debian install", yet LXQT was installed.

Terminology aside, last time I've checked, Debian offered GNOME as a
default Desktop Environment. Regardless of my personal opinion of this
Finely Designed DE™, maybe (just maybe) GNOME should be made more
visible to the end user of Debian?


3) Synaptic did not provide a user a meaningful choice.

I know how the dependencies work, so are most of the list participants
(seems that way, at least).
What's more important here, I tend to believe that I know why they were
invented, and (contrary to some options expressed in this thread) - why
they are still relevant in 21st century.

But what we are seeing here? User wants to uninstall a package, but
another package wants to be installed instead for no good reason (from
user's POV). Moreover, in this case that is one of the two possible
replacements (check "lxqt" dependencies), but the user is not informed
of that.
I'm not saying that Synaptic should be transformed to aptitude (which is
famous for its multi-choice resolver), we have one aptitude already,
please leave it this way. But showing the *reason* of such replacement,
i.e. "lxqt package demands that you will have some archiver installed"
would be a definite step in right direction.


4) Metapackages tend to have restrictive dependencies.

The whole fuss is about the contents of the Depends field of "lxqt".
Last, but not least - is there a meaningful reason to use Depends
instead of Recommends in metapackages such as "lxqt"? Barring the
"gnome" package, I know the answer for it.


Options, comments, criticism and even the OP's option are welcome.

Reco

PS Just a friendly reminder. Please check for the existence of that
LDOSUBSCRIBER value of X-Spam-Status e-mail header *before* replying to
e-mail.  Unless, of course, you intention is *not* to reply to OP but
have your reply visible to the list.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Joe]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 03:46:53 +0300
"goleo ."  wrote:


> 
> Liar, you are the one being abusive. I am being rude for a right
> reason.
> 

You are being rude through (being charitable) ignorance.

1. Boot the appropriate Debian netinstall medium.

2. Deselect *all* tasks when offered the choice, since you don't
understand them.

3. When the installation finishes, use apt-get to install exactly the
software you want and nothing else.

4. If something you want isn't packaged for Debian, compile it from
source.

5. If the source does not exist, write it.

Now, does any other operating system but Linux give you that
flexibility? And if it's flexibility you want, use an adult email
system. Run your own mail server if you wish.

-- 
Joe

Re: Dual boot: one legacy, the other uefi

[Joe]

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 23:26:32 +0200
Pascal Hambourg  wrote:

> Le 06/10/2019 à 22:45, Beco a écrit :
> > 
> > Now the system can boot both systems ok. But to choose which one
> > you want, you need to enter the BIOS, change legacy to UEFI, and
> > vice-versa, then you can boot.  
> 
> Would you mind telling which systems boots in EFI mode and which one 
> boots in legacy mode ?
> 
Windows 8/8a/10 boot only in EFI.

-- 
Joe

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[tomas]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 12:00:11AM +0300, goleo . wrote:

[...]

> This is harassment because you force me to use either
> Xarchiver or Ark, you don't give me the choice to use none.

Who is that "you" you keep talking about? You are aware that
you are addressing the "Debian Users" mailing list? People
like you?

Except that yes, some of the folks around here are writing
and packaging software for you and me *for free* -- something
for which I say *THANK YOU* (not you, goleo: you're just an
immature kid with bad manners).

> You are a bunch of hypocrites and assholes [...]

And slinging shit at those who work for us is so uncool I
can't find a name for it.

Go buy yourself a Windows or a Mac-OS. You seem to deserve it.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Ansgar]

Carl Fink writes:
> From his writing style, I get the feeling goleo is a young teen, perhaps
> someone who learned social skills in a multiplayer game online.

Or a hateful older person who is afraid of this new "video game" stuff
and made up his mind that playing video games makes people abusive, just
as TV, movies and earlier books did as was so correctly predicted by the
older people at the time ;-)

Ansgar