Re: Helium [was: t-bird screwing up]

[tomas]

On Wed, Nov 02, 2022 at 12:06:16AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 01 Nov 2022 at 06:49:09 (+0100), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > This is only a half-truth. You know what goes out faster than helium?
> > Vacuum. And there was a whole glorious epoch in electronics which did
> > rely on keeping vacuum "in". You should have some fond memories of
> > that.
> 
> To be fair, most vacuum tubes aren't bathed in helium, but air, and
> then only at a one atmosphere differential pressure. A gas cylinder
> might be as high as 500 atmospheres.

But not a harddisk. My point was somewhat tongue-in-cheek: even assuming
He diffuses out of the harddisk, we've got very good at keeping air out
(cf. vacuum tubes), so you'll be left with... vacuum. Heads would fly
lower, not higher. Actually heads would roll on the tarmac :-)

Of course, if you've got 200 or 500 bar, something might leak.

> And vacuum tubes do contain a getter to deal with outgassing, which
> will help mitigate slight leaks.

Oxygen. Not nitrogen, AFAIK. Talk nerds getting off-topic :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: System Font

[David Wright]

On Tue 01 Nov 2022 at 15:53:56 (-0400), pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote:
> Folks:
> 
> Typically, I use i3wm, but I just got through sampling Plasma. Somehow
> it has reduced/changed what I guess I'd call my "system font". This
> shows up in Firefox menus, Claws-Mail menus and others. I don't really
> care about the font, but the size must be increased. The following is
> the rundown of my fonts, from fc-match:
> 
> serif: DejaVuSerif.ttf: "DejaVu Serif" "Book"
> sans-serif: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
> monospace: DejaVuSansMono.ttf: "DejaVu Sans Mono" "Book"
> Arial: LiberationSans-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Sans" "Regular"
> Helvetica: NimbusSans-Regular.otf: "Nimbus Sans" "Regular"
> Verdana: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
> Times New Roman: LiberationSerif-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Serif" "Regular"
> Courier New: LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
> 
> My ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf has nothing about the above in it.
> I'm running Debian testing.
> 
> I'd like to know what file or files specify font size and such, and/or
> how to fix this.

Perhaps try https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1239467
though I don't understand their "Don't choose a value below 1.0 or
about [is that above?] 4.0", because the value I have is -1.5
(ie negative, and I didn't choose it).

But I don't know what this would have to do with i3wm or Plasma,
or anything else outside FF. (I don't use a DE so I can't check.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Helium [was: t-bird screwing up]

[David Wright]

On Tue 01 Nov 2022 at 06:49:09 (+0100), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 06:32:17PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > I think, but don't know for sure, that they were also helium filled drives,
> > a guaranteed disaster.
> > 
> > They used the helium to make the heads fly lower, and when the helium leaked
> > out, and air leaked in,
> 
> Possible.
> 
> > the heads flew too high to read the disk. I don't know where Seagate
> > recruited the engineers who thought
> > up that idea,
> > 
> > Whatever, even I with an 8th grade diploma, knows you cannot keep helium
> > anyplace for very long. Put it in a monel metal
> > bottle with walls an inch thick and its molecules's are so small that 10% of
> > it is gone in 6 or 7 hours. 

So the He cylinders that we used after a few months in storage
really contained nothing at all!

> And these
> > jerks thought they could seal it up in a drive housing 1/16" thick?

The operative word is seal, not the thickness of the monel walls.
Seal—and no cracks.

> This is only a half-truth. You know what goes out faster than helium?
> Vacuum. And there was a whole glorious epoch in electronics which did
> rely on keeping vacuum "in". You should have some fond memories of
> that.

To be fair, most vacuum tubes aren't bathed in helium, but air, and
then only at a one atmosphere differential pressure. A gas cylinder
might be as high as 500 atmospheres.

And vacuum tubes do contain a getter to deal with outgassing, which
will help mitigate slight leaks.

Cheers,
David.

Re: installing & upgrading backport package & upgrading system

[David Wright]

On Wed 02 Nov 2022 at 04:52:51 (+), Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, Nov 02, 2022 at 04:20:22AM +, jindam, vani wrote:
> > * i want to install lo package from bullseye-backports.
> 
> There is no such package name "lo" in bullseye-backports or any other
> version of Debian. What are you actually trying to do?

Likely LO = LibreOffice; cf. FF = Firefox etc.

Cheers,
David.

Re: installing & upgrading backport package & upgrading system

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 02, 2022 at 04:20:22AM +, jindam, vani wrote:
> * i want to install lo package from bullseye-backports.

There is no such package name "lo" in bullseye-backports or any other
version of Debian. What are you actually trying to do?

> * correct method for before installation 
> of backport lo package? :
> (1)
> sudo apt -t bullseye-backports update && 
> sudo apt -t bullseye-backports full-upgrade
> sudo apt -t bullseye-backports install lo

If there were a package called 'lo' in bullseye-backports then all you'd
need (after editing your apt sources to include bullseye-backports) is
the last line.

> * for upgrading entire system after 
> installation of backport lo package? :

You do not have to update the entire system after installing one
backports package.

The backports suites aren't full distributions and you could not have a
working system where every package comes from -backports as most of
those packages won't exist. bullseye-backports is only intended to
provide a relatively small number of newer packages for systems
nominally running Debian bullseye.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

installing & upgrading backport package & upgrading system

[jindam, vani]

* i want to install lo package from bullseye-backports.

* correct method for before installation 
of backport lo package? :
(1)
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports update && 
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports full-upgrade
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports install lo

(2)
sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports install lo

* for upgrading entire system after 
installation of backport lo package? :
(1) 
sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade &&
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports update && 
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports full-upgrade

(2)
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports update && 
sudo apt -t bullseye-backports full-upgrade

regards,
jindam, vani

toots: @jindam_v...@c.im
others: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jindam_vani

Interpreting debsecan output

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

Today I was looking at "debsecan" for the first time. It has sent me a
very long daily report containing entries such as:

CVE-2021-3695 A crafted 16-bit grayscale PNG image may lead to a...
  
  - grub-common, grub-pc, grub-pc-bin, grub2-common

I'm having troulbe understanding why it is reporting things such as
the above. Looking at the link provided, I see:

Release Version Status
bullseye2.06-3~deb11u1  fixed

I have newer versions installed:

$ dpkg-query -l grub-common grub-pc grub-pc-bin grub2-common
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   VersionArchitecture Description
+++-==-==--=
ii  grub-common2.06-3~deb11u2 i386 GRand Unified Bootloader (common 
files)
ii  grub-pc2.06-3~deb11u2 i386 GRand Unified Bootloader, 
version 2 (PC/BIOS version)
ii  grub-pc-bin2.06-3~deb11u2 i386 GRand Unified Bootloader, 
version 2 (PC/BIOS modules)
ii  grub2-common   2.06-3~deb11u2 i386 GRand Unified Bootloader (common 
files for version 2)

So why is debsecan reporting this as a security issue?

This is a very old host that has been continually upgraded since Debian
etch. At first debsecan included lots of complaints about removed
packages from earlier releases that had been left around after doing
dist-upgrade (Desired/Status='rc' in dpkg terms). I went through and
purged all of those so I believe there's only bullseye packages
remaining now, and that did reduce debsecan's output a lot, but I'm
having trouble understanding why it still mentions things like the
above.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: loss of mbmon function

[gene heskett]

On 11/1/22 19:57, David Christensen wrote:

On 11/1/22 06:20, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I am now suffering from a hang on reboot. And in looking for info, I 
find that gkrellm can only see temps. I don't push this
so they stay in the 29 to 30C range. gkrellm is, and has been part of 
my housekeeping for 20 years.


But mbmon was not installed, but it and all its suggested 
dependency's are now, and two reboots, which took about 20
minutes just to get to the bios screen while dancing a jig on the del 
key. During that time I can hear a
very faint clicking sound from time to time. zero activity on any 
drive controller led, there are two controllers,
one of course on the mobo, and one that interfaces a 4 drive raid10 
for the /home.


Mobo is: Asus PRIME Z370-A II, BIOS 0801 04/24/2019

mbmon claims to run by itself but needs root, and when ran with sudo, 
reports

gene@coyote:~$ sudo mbmon
[sudo] password for gene:
No Hardware Monitor found!!
InitMBInfo: Success

What do you suggest I install so this Asus mobo  can be monitored.



Those symptoms would seem to indicate that a disk drive is failing, 
causing the motherboard firmware and/or the HBA/RAID controller 
firmware to enter a retry/ timeout loop.



I would try:

1.  Enter the motherboard firmware setup utility during POST and look 
for warnings, errors, log entries, etc..


2.  Enter the HBA/RAID firmware configuration utility during POST and 
look for warnings, errors, log entries, etc..


3.  Examine dmesg(1) after boot, looking for errors, warnings, etc..

4.  Examine the files in /var/log after boot, looking for warnings, 
errors, etc..



BTDT twice this morning, Its all clean to this point.

5. Run SMART short tests on all drives, generate SMART reports for all 
drives, and then look at the reports for symptoms of a failing drive.



I have not done that yet. /dev/sda says its fine.
 Now a long test is running on /dev/sde, the first of 4 in the raid10. 
3 to go after this one. There are more, but they are late mounts, and not
in  /etc/fstab, they are in other machines all mounted thru /sshnet. My 
local network's contents.
6. Examine dmesg(1) and /var/log files again after the machine has 
been up for a while and look for warnings, errors, etc..


Nothing, it just sits there with the early boot Asus blurb on screen, 
for 20 minutes or more.
7. POST and Debian boot messages can scroll by faster than you can see 
them, and I am unsure if everything ends up in a log file.  If you 
cannot find any clues using the above steps, set up a video camera to 
record the console during boot.  Then, look at the video for warnings, 
errors, etc..


My impression is that its all pre-bios, pre-boot. Once it reaches the 
inital grub screen, the rest of the boot seems to be quite normal speed.
And if I can get into the bios, it looks perfectly normal. I'll send 
smartctl after more info. And I just put a dvm on a drive plug, getting

5.1 and 12.1 voltages there, so I don't think the psu is going down.


David

.
Take care & stay well, David, I'm going to go check some blankets &  
eyelids for leaks.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Helium [was: t-bird screwing up]

[David Christensen]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 06:32:17PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
I think, but don't know for sure, that they were also helium filled 
drives, a guaranteed disaster.



https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg780296.html

gene heskett Sun, 13 Mar 2022 14:49:25 -0700

The first to fail, last october is a 2TB Barracuda ST2000DM006, SN
Z4XAWQ6V, PN 2DM164-302


STFW I see nothing that indicates the Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM006 is 
helium filled.



STFW for articles related to helium-filled HDD's, I came across the same 
article Thomas found:


On 10/31/22 22:49, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> [1] 
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/helium-filled-hard-drive-failure-rates/



Unfortunately, I am not finding a follow-up article that addresses the 
closing hypothesis:


My hypothesis is that after normalizing the data so that the helium and 
air-filled drives have the same (or similar) usage (Drive Days), the 
helium-filled drives we use will continue to have a lower Annualized 
Failure Rate versus the air-filled drives we use. I expect this trend to 
continue for the next year at least.



But, Backblaze does make their raw data available.  So, the analysis 
task is waiting for whomever is interested:


https://www.backblaze.com/b2/hard-drive-test-data.html


I have a pair of HGST HUS726T6TALE6L4 drives (6 TB, helium-filled, CMR) 
that I use for near-site and off-site backups in rotation.  They are 
about 22 months old.  Whichever is near-site gets gets heavy usage for 
10 to 100 minutes once per week (ZFS replication with deduplication). 
So far, no problems.



David

Re: loss of mbmon function

[gene heskett]

On 11/1/22 16:52, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

On 01.11.2022 18:20, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I am now suffering from a hang on reboot. And in looking for info, I 
find that gkrellm can only see temps. I don't push this
so they stay in the 29 to 30C range. gkrellm is, and has been part of 
my housekeeping for 20 years.


But mbmon was not installed, but it and all its suggested 
dependency's are now, and two reboots, which took about 20
minutes just to get to the bios screen while dancing a jig on the del 
key. During that time I can hear a
very faint clicking sound from time to time. zero activity on any 
drive controller led, there are two controllers,
one of course on the mobo, and one that interfaces a 4 drive raid10 
for the /home.


Mobo is: Asus PRIME Z370-A II, BIOS 0801 04/24/2019

mbmon claims to run by itself but needs root, and when ran with sudo, 
reports

gene@coyote:~$ sudo mbmon
[sudo] password for gene:
No Hardware Monitor found!!
InitMBInfo: Success

What do you suggest I install so this Asus mobo  can be monitored.

Thanks all. Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
First step is to find model and make of IC that provides sensor 
functions.

Does this command gives any clues?
$ sudo sensors-detect


answered yes to all the default NO questions and still got only:
# Chip drivers
coretemp
nct6775

Which are now loaded, but still no voltages or fans are reported.

Thanks.






Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: loss of mbmon function

[David Christensen]

On 11/1/22 06:20, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I am now suffering from a hang on reboot. And in looking for info, I 
find that gkrellm can only see temps. I don't push this
so they stay in the 29 to 30C range. gkrellm is, and has been part of my 
housekeeping for 20 years.


But mbmon was not installed, but it and all its suggested dependency's 
are now, and two reboots, which took about 20
minutes just to get to the bios screen while dancing a jig on the del 
key. During that time I can hear a
very faint clicking sound from time to time. zero activity on any drive 
controller led, there are two controllers,
one of course on the mobo, and one that interfaces a 4 drive raid10 for 
the /home.


Mobo is: Asus PRIME Z370-A II, BIOS 0801 04/24/2019

mbmon claims to run by itself but needs root, and when ran with sudo, 
reports

gene@coyote:~$ sudo mbmon
[sudo] password for gene:
No Hardware Monitor found!!
InitMBInfo: Success

What do you suggest I install so this Asus mobo  can be monitored.



Those symptoms would seem to indicate that a disk drive is failing, 
causing the motherboard firmware and/or the HBA/RAID controller firmware 
to enter a retry/ timeout loop.



I would try:

1.  Enter the motherboard firmware setup utility during POST and look 
for warnings, errors, log entries, etc..


2.  Enter the HBA/RAID firmware configuration utility during POST and 
look for warnings, errors, log entries, etc..


3.  Examine dmesg(1) after boot, looking for errors, warnings, etc..

4.  Examine the files in /var/log after boot, looking for warnings, 
errors, etc..


5.  Run SMART short tests on all drives, generate SMART reports for all 
drives, and then look at the reports for symptoms of a failing drive.


6.  Examine dmesg(1) and /var/log files again after the machine has been 
up for a while and look for warnings, errors, etc..


7.  POST and Debian boot messages can scroll by faster than you can see 
them, and I am unsure if everything ends up in a log file.  If you 
cannot find any clues using the above steps, set up a video camera to 
record the console during boot.  Then, look at the video for warnings, 
errors, etc..



David

Fwd: [SECURITY] [DLA 3173-1] linux-5.10 security update

[John Boxall]

Did I miss something in the last three years? When did buster go to a 
5.10 kernel? My buster system is still on kernel 4.19.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [SECURITY] [DLA 3173-1] linux-5.10 security update
Resent-Date: Tue,  1 Nov 2022 20:58:06 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-lts-annou...@lists.debian.org
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2022 21:57:30 +0100
From: Ben Hutchings 
Reply-To: debian-...@lists.debian.org
Organization: Debian
To: debian-lts-annou...@lists.debian.org

-
Debian LTS Advisory DLA-3173-1debian-...@lists.debian.org
https://www.debian.org/lts/security/Ben Hutchings
November 1, 2022  https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
-

Package: linux-5.10
Version: 5.10.149-2~deb10u1
CVE ID : CVE-2021-4037 CVE-2022-0171 CVE-2022-1184 CVE-2022-1679
 CVE-2022-2153 CVE-2022-2602 CVE-2022-2663 CVE-2022-2905
 CVE-2022-3028 CVE-2022-3061 CVE-2022-3176 CVE-2022-3303
 CVE-2022-3586 CVE-2022-3621 CVE-2022-3625 CVE-2022-3629
 CVE-2022-3633 CVE-2022-3635 CVE-2022-3646 CVE-2022-3649
 CVE-2022-20421 CVE-2022-20422 CVE-2022-39188 
CVE-2022-39190
 CVE-2022-39842 CVE-2022-40307 CVE-2022-41222 
CVE-2022-41674
 CVE-2022-42719 CVE-2022-42720 CVE-2022-42721 
CVE-2022-42722

 CVE-2022-43750
Debian Bug : 1017425 1019248

Several vulnerabilities have been discovered in the Linux kernel that
may lead to a privilege escalation, denial of service or information
leaks.

CVE-2021-4037

Christian Brauner reported that the inode_init_owner function for
the XFS filesystem in the Linux kernel allows local users to
create files with an unintended group ownership allowing attackers
to escalate privileges by making a plain file executable and SGID.

CVE-2022-0171

Mingwei Zhang reported that a cache incoherence issue in the SEV
API in the KVM subsystem may result in denial of service.

CVE-2022-1184

A flaw was discovered in the ext4 filesystem driver which can lead
to a use-after-free. A local user permitted to mount arbitrary
filesystems could exploit this to cause a denial of service (crash
or memory corruption) or possibly for privilege escalation.

CVE-2022-1679

The syzbot tool found a race condition in the ath9k_htc driver
which can lead to a use-after-free.  This might be exploitable to
cause a denial service (crash or memory corruption) or possibly
for privilege escalation.

CVE-2022-2153

"kangel" reported a flaw in the KVM implementation for x86
processors which could lead to a null pointer dereference. A local
user permitted to access /dev/kvm could exploit this to cause a
denial of service (crash).

CVE-2022-2602

A race between handling an io_uring request and the Unix socket
garbage collector was discovered. An attacker can take advantage
of this flaw for local privilege escalation.

CVE-2022-2663

David Leadbeater reported flaws in the nf_conntrack_irc
connection-tracking protocol module. When this module is enabled
on a firewall, an external user on the same IRC network as an
internal user could exploit its lax parsing to open arbitrary TCP
ports in the firewall, to reveal their public IP address, or to
block their IRC connection at the firewall.

CVE-2022-2905

Hsin-Wei Hung reported a flaw in the eBPF verifier which can lead
to an out-of-bounds read.  If unprivileged use of eBPF is enabled,
this could leak sensitive information.  This was already disabled
by default, which would fully mitigate the vulnerability.

CVE-2022-3028

Abhishek Shah reported a race condition in the AF_KEY subsystem,
which could lead to an out-of-bounds write or read.  A local user
could exploit this to cause a denial of service (crash or memory
corruption), to obtain sensitive information, or possibly for
privilege escalation.

CVE-2022-3061

A flaw was discovered in the i740 driver which may result in
denial of service.

This driver is not enabled in Debian's official kernel
configurations.

CVE-2022-3176

A use-after-free flaw was discovered in the io_uring subsystem
which may result in local privilege escalation to root.

CVE-2022-3303

A race condition in the snd_pcm_oss_sync function in the sound
subsystem in the Linux kernel due to improper locking may result
in denial of service.

CVE-2022-3586 (ZDI-22-1452)

The Zero Day Initiative reported a flaw in the sch_sfb network
scheduler, which may lead to a use-after-free and leak of
sensitive information from the kernel.

CVE-2022-3621, CVE-2022-3646

The syzbot tool found flaws in the nilfs2 filesystem driver which
can lead to a null 

Re: loss of mbmon function

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 01.11.2022 18:20, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I am now suffering from a hang on reboot. And in looking for info, I 
find that gkrellm can only see temps. I don't push this
so they stay in the 29 to 30C range. gkrellm is, and has been part of 
my housekeeping for 20 years.


But mbmon was not installed, but it and all its suggested dependency's 
are now, and two reboots, which took about 20
minutes just to get to the bios screen while dancing a jig on the del 
key. During that time I can hear a
very faint clicking sound from time to time. zero activity on any 
drive controller led, there are two controllers,
one of course on the mobo, and one that interfaces a 4 drive raid10 
for the /home.


Mobo is: Asus PRIME Z370-A II, BIOS 0801 04/24/2019

mbmon claims to run by itself but needs root, and when ran with sudo, 
reports

gene@coyote:~$ sudo mbmon
[sudo] password for gene:
No Hardware Monitor found!!
InitMBInfo: Success

What do you suggest I install so this Asus mobo  can be monitored.

Thanks all. Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.

First step is to find model and make of IC that provides sensor functions.
Does this command gives any clues?
$ sudo sensors-detect



--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

System Font

[paulf]

Folks:

Typically, I use i3wm, but I just got through sampling Plasma. Somehow
it has reduced/changed what I guess I'd call my "system font". This
shows up in Firefox menus, Claws-Mail menus and others. I don't really
care about the font, but the size must be increased. The following is
the rundown of my fonts, from fc-match:

serif: DejaVuSerif.ttf: "DejaVu Serif" "Book"
sans-serif: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
monospace: DejaVuSansMono.ttf: "DejaVu Sans Mono" "Book"
Arial: LiberationSans-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Sans" "Regular"
Helvetica: NimbusSans-Regular.otf: "Nimbus Sans" "Regular"
Verdana: DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
Times New Roman: LiberationSerif-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Serif" "Regular"
Courier New: LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"

My ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf has nothing about the above in it.
I'm running Debian testing.

I'd like to know what file or files specify font size and such, and/or
how to fix this.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 08:22:07PM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Bret Busby wrote:
> > Are Blu-ray drives available for computers?
> 
> Sure.
> 
> My oldest one is a LG BD-RE GGW-H20L of 2008.
> My youngest is a ASUS BW-16D1HT which i bought recently after my
> Optiarc BD-5300S died mechanically.
> 
> 
> > I do not know of the storage capacity for a Blu-ray disc,
> 
> Single layer 25 GB, double layer 50 GB, triple layer 100 GB,
> four layer 128 GB.
> BD-R are write-once media. BD-RE are overwritable many times.
> Single layer media offer by far the best price/capacity ratio.
> (Cheaper than USB stick but more expensive than rotating hard disk.)
> 
> 
> > Given that USB thumb drives have been available, of up to 256GB capacity (I
> > have a few of them), I expect that iso files (or, iso file collections, if
> > needed, such as the whole set of 40 DVD images) for USB thumb drives, would
> > be available.
> 

There's a price/performance/storage overhead - if the media team made 256G
.iso files to go on a stick, they'd have to be stored somewhere - even if
just as .jigdo files. The number of people who would want to generate such
.isos is relatively small. There's also the (non-negligible) risk of errors in
copying to USB sticks which may not always be reliable unless you pay $$$ for
solid branded guaranteed drives - Corsair do some fantastic USB drives but
these are expensive.

> There is a 16 GB ISO named STICK16GB-1
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/
> 

Which works well - but may take a long time to generate, even with a local
mirror on the same network. Likewise the BD images. (From experience
doing point releases and generating the images locally).

> The problem with multiple ISOs is that Debian expects them on as many
> different optical media and will prompt you to put them into the drive
> when needed.
> I am not aware that this would work out of the box with multiple USB sticks.
> 
> Easier to use is a merged ISO which was made from some or all ISOs of
> a set of installation media.
> 
> (Actually there are 19 DVDs on
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
> while "current" is 11.5.)
> 

I trust Thomas to do and know the right thing for merged .iso files as
he has demonstrated on this list and he is generally exceptionally helpful
here.
> 

Then you've got source as well - if you wanted to have a "complete" Debian
- all architectures, including source - the number of disks would soon
soar.

> > If my memory is correct, back at about Debian 3.0 or 3.1, Debian was
> > available on something like 3 DVD's or 8 CD's, although, with advancing
> > years, my memory of that, may be a bit fuzzy.
> 
> Who needs wet memory when there is the cdimage archive ?
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/
> For the only CD sized images:
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r0/i386/
> and of them there were seven:
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r0/i386/jigdo-cd/
> But at 3.0_r3 there was also a single DVD:
>   https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r6/i386/iso-dvd/
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Bret Busby wrote:
> Are Blu-ray drives available for computers?

Sure.

My oldest one is a LG BD-RE GGW-H20L of 2008.
My youngest is a ASUS BW-16D1HT which i bought recently after my
Optiarc BD-5300S died mechanically.


> I do not know of the storage capacity for a Blu-ray disc,

Single layer 25 GB, double layer 50 GB, triple layer 100 GB,
four layer 128 GB.
BD-R are write-once media. BD-RE are overwritable many times.
Single layer media offer by far the best price/capacity ratio.
(Cheaper than USB stick but more expensive than rotating hard disk.)


> Given that USB thumb drives have been available, of up to 256GB capacity (I
> have a few of them), I expect that iso files (or, iso file collections, if
> needed, such as the whole set of 40 DVD images) for USB thumb drives, would
> be available.

There is a 16 GB ISO named STICK16GB-1
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/

The problem with multiple ISOs is that Debian expects them on as many
different optical media and will prompt you to put them into the drive
when needed.
I am not aware that this would work out of the box with multiple USB sticks.

Easier to use is a merged ISO which was made from some or all ISOs of
a set of installation media.

(Actually there are 19 DVDs on
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
while "current" is 11.5.)


> If my memory is correct, back at about Debian 3.0 or 3.1, Debian was
> available on something like 3 DVD's or 8 CD's, although, with advancing
> years, my memory of that, may be a bit fuzzy.

Who needs wet memory when there is the cdimage archive ?
  https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/
For the only CD sized images:
  https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r0/i386/
and of them there were seven:
  https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r0/i386/jigdo-cd/
But at 3.0_r3 there was also a single DVD:
  https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/3.0_r6/i386/iso-dvd/


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Luna Jernberg]

Yes they are

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 7:20 PM Bret Busby  wrote:
>
> On 2/11/22 01:40, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Bret Busby wrote:
> >> Someone did say that the full distribution comprises of many disks, so,
> >> maybe it needs four boxes?
> >
> > The four jewel case edition is here:
> >https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
> > for 25 GB Blu-ray discs.
> >
>
> Are Blu-ray drives available for computers?
>
> I have not yet seen a computer with an internal Blu-ray drive.
>
> My understanding is that the significant difference between a Blu-ray
> disc and a DVD, is that DVD discs are limited to 720p ("HD")resolution
> for video, and Blu-ray provides 1080p ("FHD") resolution for video.
>
> I do not know of the storage capacity for a Blu-ray disc, but, I imagine
> that it would need to be far greater than a DVD (up to 4.5GB, I
> believe), due to the difference in available resolution for video.
>
> Given that USB thumb drives have been available, of up to 256GB capacity
> (I have a few of them), I expect that iso files (or, iso file
> collections, if needed, such as the whole set of 40 DVD images) for USB
> thumb drives, would be available.
>
> If my memory is correct, back at about Debian 3.0 or 3.1, Debian was
> available on something like 3 DVD's or 8 CD's, although, with advancing
> years, my memory of that, may be a bit fuzzy.
>
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
>

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Bret Busby]

On 2/11/22 01:40, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

Hi,

Bret Busby wrote:

Someone did say that the full distribution comprises of many disks, so,
maybe it needs four boxes?


The four jewel case edition is here:
   https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
for 25 GB Blu-ray discs.



Are Blu-ray drives available for computers?

I have not yet seen a computer with an internal Blu-ray drive.

My understanding is that the significant difference between a Blu-ray 
disc and a DVD, is that DVD discs are limited to 720p ("HD")resolution 
for video, and Blu-ray provides 1080p ("FHD") resolution for video.


I do not know of the storage capacity for a Blu-ray disc, but, I imagine 
that it would need to be far greater than a DVD (up to 4.5GB, I 
believe), due to the difference in available resolution for video.


Given that USB thumb drives have been available, of up to 256GB capacity 
(I have a few of them), I expect that iso files (or, iso file 
collections, if needed, such as the whole set of 40 DVD images) for USB 
thumb drives, would be available.


If my memory is correct, back at about Debian 3.0 or 3.1, Debian was 
available on something like 3 DVD's or 8 CD's, although, with advancing 
years, my memory of that, may be a bit fuzzy.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Bret Busby wrote:
> Someone did say that the full distribution comprises of many disks, so,
> maybe it needs four boxes?

The four jewel case edition is here:
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
for 25 GB Blu-ray discs.


(There is also a twin pack for 50 GB BDDL:
   https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dlbd/
 and a way to combine all media on one big USB stick or 100 GB BDXL disc:
   https://wiki.debian.org/MergeDebianIsos
)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Bret Busby]

On 1/11/22 23:40, Bret Busby wrote:

On 1/11/22 23:28, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 10:57:17AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:




Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:


Ahhh... these are the boxed distributions?

Cheers
Someone did say that the full distribution comprises of many disks, so, 
maybe it needs four boxes?




"A full Debian distribution would be 40 DVDs"

Four boxes sounds about right...

:)

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[tomas]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 04:48:19PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Teemu Likonen (12022-11-01):
> > > To the OP: what does entering "locale -a" in a terminal say on your
> > > machine?
> > And "locale charmap" command too. Hopefully it will print "UTF-8" but if
> > it prints "ANSI_X3.4-1968" it means ASCII and 7-bit character set.
> 
> I checked that mousepad and jedit, the two editors mentioned by the OP,
> work well even with LC_CTYPE=C. I did not go to testing if they save and
> reopen the file correctly, only pasting.

Yes, there are many other parameters we'll have to explore. Fonts, for
one.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Boxed Distributions

[Bret Busby]

On 1/11/22 23:28, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 10:57:17AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:




Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:


Ahhh... these are the boxed distributions?

Cheers
Someone did say that the full distribution comprises of many disks, so, 
maybe it needs four boxes?


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[Nicolas George]

Teemu Likonen (12022-11-01):
> > To the OP: what does entering "locale -a" in a terminal say on your
> > machine?
> And "locale charmap" command too. Hopefully it will print "UTF-8" but if
> it prints "ANSI_X3.4-1968" it means ASCII and 7-bit character set.

I checked that mousepad and jedit, the two editors mentioned by the OP,
work well even with LC_CTYPE=C. I did not go to testing if they save and
reopen the file correctly, only pasting.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2022-11-01 16:27:25+0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> To the OP: what does entering "locale -a" in a terminal say on your
> machine?

And "locale charmap" command too. Hopefully it will print "UTF-8" but if
it prints "ANSI_X3.4-1968" it means ASCII and 7-bit character set.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 6965F03973F0D4CA22B9410F0F2CAE0E07608462


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Re: Boxed Distributions

[tomas]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 10:57:17AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Jude 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:

Ahhh... these are the boxed distributions?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[tomas]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 03:19:41PM +, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> emacs?

It shows the é perfectly well, yes (besides, Emacs is the best
editor out there, anyway). But, TBH, even vim can do.

To the OP: what does entering "locale -a" in a terminal say on
your machine?

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256






--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, November 1st, 2022 at 8:54 AM, jindam, vani 
 wrote:


> i copy paste a lot from wikipedia articles.
> for example, if i paste "é", it shows garbage.

I just tried that paste in LibreOffice, and it worked.

--
Glenn English

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Version: ProtonMail

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Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[Eric S Fraga]

emacs?
-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 29.0.50 2022-11-01) on Debian 11.4

Re: which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[Nicolas George]

jindam, vani (12022-11-01):
> i copy paste a lot from wikipedia articles.
> for example, if i paste "é", it shows garbage.
> i am using mousepad & jedit. is there any gui 
> text editor which displays correctly pasted text 
> with different languages? i am on debian bullseye.

I just tested, mousepad and jedit accept accents perfectly well. You
have another problem somewhere else.

OTOH, jedit does not run with my default 6G limit on addressspace and
does not understand X11 middle-mouse paste → apt-get purge this shit.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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which gui text editor support correct rendering of multiple languages

[jindam, vani]

i copy paste a lot from wikipedia articles.
for example, if i paste "é", it shows garbage.
i am using mousepad & jedit. is there any gui 
text editor which displays correctly pasted text 
with different languages? i am on debian bullseye.

regards,
jindam, vani

toots: @jindam_v...@c.im
others: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jindam_vani

Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[nevivurn]

On 11/1/22 22:59, The Wanderer wrote:
> Can anyone advise me as to at least where I need to look to find out
> about this syntax and how to understand it? Advice about how to actually
> handle this dense and complicated control file (and its input
> control.in) properly, rather than in whatever hackish way I might
> otherwise come up with, would be even more appreciated.

Those are not Debian-specific per se, but firefox-specific, it seems.

debian/rules passes IN_FILES through a `preprocess` function, which
accumulates them in PREPROCESSED_FILES, which are eventually built using
the python script at python/mozbuild/mozbuild/preprocessor.py. This
script handles the parsing (with regex) and substitution.

$ grep -B1 -e preprocessor.py debian/rules

I don't know enough Make to advise you on how to move on with this info,
but good luck!

Re: Boxed Distributions

[Jude DaShiell]

Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2022, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 02:24:25AM -0400, Joe Roberts II wrote:
> > Dear Debian Friends,
> >
> > I was hopeful that you guys can point me in the right direction on where to
> > recieve boxes distributions of Debian.
> >
> > Is there any way you guys can put me on a distribution list for the
> > beautiful boxed distributions for Debian? ?
> >
>
> Debian hasn't produced boxed distributions. The nearest I can
> suggest is that you contact one of the vendors from here who
> can supply CD/DVD media (or, more usually these days, maybe
> a USB stick that is bootable.)
>
> A full Debian distribution would be 40 DVDs so many vendors supply
> the first one or two DVDs only. Some vendors supply the equivalent
> of the library case you'd get for a two DVD film.
>
> https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/
>
> > I respect the fact Debian stands for excellence and hard work and would
> > love to see the boxed distros in my area. Thank you guys kindly. I left my
> > address / email / and phone if you decide to email me or call me. I would
> > love to have a boxed distribution of all great Debian releases.
> >
> > You guys are awesome ?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Joe Roberts II
> >
> > Address
> > Joe Roberts II
> > 2075 Browns Fork Rd
> > Hazard, KY 41701
> >
> > Phone - 1-606-335-8099
>
>
Disks may not be a good choice since boxed distributions with disks do
arrive with broken disks.  If the vendor packs professionally you should
be okay though.  Putting a plastic box of disks inside a cardboard box is
not professional packing.  Bubble wrap can help insulate disks from shock
and breakage though.  So if a vendor is to be used at all, find out how
they pack and ship the product before buying.  Popped popcorn around a
disk box inside a shipping box would work well too.

Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[The Wanderer]

On 2022-11-01 at 10:42, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 03:32:05PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
>
>> jeremy ardley (12022-11-01):
>>
>> > cmake has inbuilt support for deb packaging
>> 
>>  cmake can have all the features it wants, if Debian does not
>> use it, then talking about it is a waste of time.
>> 
>> Do you have a source that shows Debian uses cmake for its packaging?
> 
> Please, for the love of Debian, just do
> 
> head -n1 debian/rules

$ head -n1 debian/rules
#!/usr/bin/make -f

But that isn't necessarily applicable here, because we're not talking
about debian/rules; we're not even talking about debian/control, but
about debian/control.in.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 03:32:05PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> jeremy ardley (12022-11-01):
> > cmake has inbuilt support for deb packaging
> 
>  cmake can have all the features it wants, if Debian does not
> use it, then talking about it is a waste of time.
> 
> Do you have a source that shows Debian uses cmake for its packaging?

Please, for the love of Debian, just do

head -n1 debian/rules

Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[Nicolas George]

jeremy ardley (12022-11-01):
> cmake has inbuilt support for deb packaging

 cmake can have all the features it wants, if Debian does not
use it, then talking about it is a waste of time.

Do you have a source that shows Debian uses cmake for its packaging?

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[jeremy ardley]

On 1/11/22 22:20, The Wanderer wrote:


This definitely isn't cmake. It's part of the Debian build system, and
if that depended on cmake, I'm all but absolutely certain that I'd know
it by now.

Also, this has nothing to do with the build system for the software
being packaged; it's entirely to do with the Debian packaging glue which
handles telling that build system what to do and tying the results of
the build together into Debian package files.



cmake has inbuilt support for deb packaging as well as related third 
party add-ons. As there is a scarcity of CMakeLists.txt files in your 
package, it will be using a different build system.


--
Jeremy

Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[The Wanderer]

On 2022-11-01 at 10:11, jeremy ardley wrote:

> On 1/11/22 21:59, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> However, in doing so I have run into a snag which I previously
>> skipped over and ignored: I don't actually know what the @variable@
>> syntax means/does, or what parses it. It's not Makefile syntax, as
>> far as I've been able to determine. I haven't thus far found any
>> documentation for debian/control.in at all; my searches are leading
>> me only to documentation for debian/control, which doesn't mention
>> any .in file as far as I've found.
>> 
> If it's not Makefile, it's quite possibly cmake based which in turn
> can generate dynamic makefiles at various stages in the build.
> 
> The downside is that cmake for large projects has nuances that
> require years of direct cmake experience to fully understand what is
> going on.

This definitely isn't cmake. It's part of the Debian build system, and
if that depended on cmake, I'm all but absolutely certain that I'd know
it by now.

Also, this has nothing to do with the build system for the software
being packaged; it's entirely to do with the Debian packaging glue which
handles telling that build system what to do and tying the results of
the build together into Debian package files.

> Search for some CMakeFiles.txt files to check if you need to explore
> cmake further.

The only such CMake*.txt files present are those in third-party
dependency subdirectories of the source tree, which have nothing to do
with the Debian build system.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[Nicolas George]

jeremy ardley (12022-11-01):
> If it's not Makefile, it's quite possibly cmake

I strongly doubt that Debian uses cmake for its packaging. Source?

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[jeremy ardley]

On 1/11/22 22:11, jeremy ardley wrote:
Search for some CMakeFiles.txt files to check if you need to explore 
cmake further.



Wrong. My typing error. Look for CMakeLists.txt files.

--
Jeremy

Re: debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[jeremy ardley]

On 1/11/22 21:59, The Wanderer wrote:

However, in doing so I have run into a snag which I previously skipped
over and ignored: I don't actually know what the @variable@ syntax
means/does, or what parses it. It's not Makefile syntax, as far as I've
been able to determine. I haven't thus far found any documentation for
debian/control.in at all; my searches are leading me only to
documentation for debian/control, which doesn't mention any .in file as
far as I've found.

If it's not Makefile, it's quite possibly cmake based which in turn can 
generate dynamic makefiles at various stages in the build.


The downside is that cmake for large projects has nuances that require 
years of direct cmake experience to fully understand what is going on.


Search for some CMakeFiles.txt files to check if you need to explore 
cmake further.


--

Jeremy

debian/rules @variable@ syntax

[The Wanderer]

As background: for reasons which I could explain but would probably take
a lot of going into and/or go off on a lot of tangents that wouldn't
help me reach my actual goal, I'm trying to build an older version of
the firefox-esr package in such a way that the resulting binary packages
have a different name. (The short version is that I need to install that
version in an environment where a package I cannot afford to change or
remove has dependencies which would force removing any package named
firefox-esr.)

I have the source package, and with a lot of digging and tweaking and so
forth have gotten it to build unmodified -and then to build again with
the changes that are the reason why I want to do this in the first
place, aside from the package name change. (Yes, these changes are
designed to fix the problems that would result from having this version
installed with that other package.)

But I'm now finding myself utterly stumped as to where and how the
binary-package names are defined. (There are a *lot* of them for this
source package - firefox, firefox-esr, iceweasel, the i18n variants of
at least one and I think multiple of the above for each of a
surprisingly large number of languages, and possibly some I've missed.)

In debian/control.in (which builds debian/control, which is where the
package stanzas that define what binary packages will be built exist),
the template binary-package stanza represents the binary-package name
with the string '@browser@'.

I have searched the source (at least inside the debian/ directory, and
IIRC at one point through the entire broader Firefox source tree) for
various variants of this, and have so far been entirely unable to figure
out where it comes from. It appears to trace back through multiple other
variable names, possibly building the final value by concatenating two
of them together at some point, and I have had no luck in finding out
where those variable names are ultimately *set* to their values.

I've pulled out of that rabbit hole and gone back to an earlier stage of
the process: trying to analyze the variable itself, in hopes that I had
traced it wrong, and that by doing thing over I can find another avenue
which will turn out to be more fruitful.

However, in doing so I have run into a snag which I previously skipped
over and ignored: I don't actually know what the @variable@ syntax
means/does, or what parses it. It's not Makefile syntax, as far as I've
been able to determine. I haven't thus far found any documentation for
debian/control.in at all; my searches are leading me only to
documentation for debian/control, which doesn't mention any .in file as
far as I've found.

Can anyone advise me as to at least where I need to look to find out
about this syntax and how to understand it? Advice about how to actually
handle this dense and complicated control file (and its input
control.in) properly, rather than in whatever hackish way I might
otherwise come up with, would be even more appreciated.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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loss of mbmon function

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

I am now suffering from a hang on reboot. And in looking for info, I 
find that gkrellm can only see temps. I don't push this
so they stay in the 29 to 30C range. gkrellm is, and has been part of my 
housekeeping for 20 years.


But mbmon was not installed, but it and all its suggested dependency's 
are now, and two reboots, which took about 20
minutes just to get to the bios screen while dancing a jig on the del 
key. During that time I can hear a
very faint clicking sound from time to time. zero activity on any drive 
controller led, there are two controllers,
one of course on the mobo, and one that interfaces a 4 drive raid10 for 
the /home.


Mobo is: Asus PRIME Z370-A II, BIOS 0801 04/24/2019

mbmon claims to run by itself but needs root, and when ran with sudo, 
reports

gene@coyote:~$ sudo mbmon
[sudo] password for gene:
No Hardware Monitor found!!
InitMBInfo: Success

What do you suggest I install so this Asus mobo  can be monitored.

Thanks all. Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: version de Bullseye

[Marcelo Eduardo Giordano]

Gracias. me funcionó perfecto

El 31/10/22 a las 22:04, Gerardo Braica escribió:

Hola.

cat /etc/debian_version


El 31/10/22 a las 19:28, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano escribió:

Hola amigos.

Quiero saber mi versión de Bullseye, o sea 11.x

Que comando puedo ejecutar? Probé lsb_release -a pero me dice 
solamente bullseye.


Gracias



--
*/Gerardo Braica
*/gbra...@gmail.com.ar
/*/*

--

Marcelo E. Giordano
/Contador Público/
*(2634) 4***17505**

Pedro Molina 574· San Martín - Mendoza
_c ontadorgiordano.com.ar_

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Re: Boxed Distributions

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 02:24:25AM -0400, Joe Roberts II wrote:
> Dear Debian Friends,
> 
> I was hopeful that you guys can point me in the right direction on where to
> recieve boxes distributions of Debian.
> 
> Is there any way you guys can put me on a distribution list for the
> beautiful boxed distributions for Debian? 
> 

Debian hasn't produced boxed distributions. The nearest I can
suggest is that you contact one of the vendors from here who
can supply CD/DVD media (or, more usually these days, maybe
a USB stick that is bootable.)

A full Debian distribution would be 40 DVDs so many vendors supply
the first one or two DVDs only. Some vendors supply the equivalent
of the library case you'd get for a two DVD film.

https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/

> I respect the fact Debian stands for excellence and hard work and would
> love to see the boxed distros in my area. Thank you guys kindly. I left my
> address / email / and phone if you decide to email me or call me. I would
> love to have a boxed distribution of all great Debian releases.
> 
> You guys are awesome 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Joe Roberts II
> 
> Address
> Joe Roberts II
> 2075 Browns Fork Rd
> Hazard, KY 41701
> 
> Phone - 1-606-335-8099

Re: Helium [was: t-bird screwing up]

[gene heskett]

On 11/1/22 01:50, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 06:32:17PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]


I think, but don't know for sure, that they were also helium filled drives,
a guaranteed disaster.

They used the helium to make the heads fly lower, and when the helium leaked
out, and air leaked in,

Possible.


the heads flew too high to read the disk. I don't know where Seagate
recruited the engineers who thought
up that idea,

Whatever, even I with an 8th grade diploma, knows you cannot keep helium
anyplace for very long. Put it in a monel metal
bottle with walls an inch thick and its molecules's are so small that 10% of
it is gone in 6 or 7 hours.  And these
jerks thought they could seal it up in a drive housing 1/16" thick?

This is only a half-truth. You know what goes out faster than helium?
Vacuum. And there was a whole glorious epoch in electronics which did
rely on keeping vacuum "in". You should have some fond memories of
that.

That doesn't mean that Seagate didn't botch the implementation, perhaps
especially in your batch, mind you.
I'll buy that, but the power diff of 20% might have had some wishful 
thinking

effect. I'd be far more concerned with head flying height. With helium. and
similar aerodynamics, flying height, given perfectly smooth surfaces which
spinning rust does not have encouraged them to take advantage of that, but
if the drive leaks, the head is going to fly too high. I my case, 
neither drive
gave any indication of trouble until it just dropped offline in the 
middle of the
night. I replaced it with a 1T Samsung I had bought for a different 
project, and was

busy recovering some of my last 25 years of history from Amanda backups on
another 2T drive of the same model # that also went face down before I 
was able to

get it all. Most of that history gone forever.

So I bought a stack of samsungs 1T  SSD's and started from scratch. That,
because I didn't know, wasn't warned,  led to 20+ installs because by 
the time
I had stuffed a hot potato in Orca's mouth, it would not reboot, stopped 
dead
looking for brltty and no one could tell me how to get rid of it 
completely..


So only a re-install was possible. The bullseye installer thinks, if it 
see's a usb
to seriel convertor, it installs and links both brltty and orca, which 
wipes out the
usability of the machine for someone who can hear, not too well at 88 
yo, but
having orca pronounce at 500% of normal volume, spelling out every key  
pressed in the

same monotone voice forever is extremely distracting, and at no time
in those 20+ installs. did it ever ask me if I was blind.

Someone finally mentioned I should unplug the usb stuff. I squawked the 
installer s/b
fixed to at least ask and was essentially told to STFU. To have the 
installer do that
w/o asking was the biggest problem I've had in 24 years, although the 
network setup
runs it a a close second. usb to seriel convertors are used for many 
other things besides

braille printers.

This folks [1] do some assessment three years after they started having
helium drives in their mix and the results are not as clear cut as yours.

I tend to trust them, since as a cloud storage provider, they go through
more hard drives in a year than we both could have, had we started at
the beginning of our lives. The cool part about them is that they keep
a tab on their failure rates and /publish/ them, for all of us to see.

Cheers

[1] https://www.backblaze.com/blog/helium-filled-hard-drive-failure-rates/

Interesting read.



Cheers, Gene Heskett

--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Boxed Distributions

[Joe Roberts II]

Dear Debian Friends,

I was hopeful that you guys can point me in the right direction on where to
recieve boxes distributions of Debian.

Is there any way you guys can put me on a distribution list for the
beautiful boxed distributions for Debian? 

I respect the fact Debian stands for excellence and hard work and would
love to see the boxed distros in my area. Thank you guys kindly. I left my
address / email / and phone if you decide to email me or call me. I would
love to have a boxed distribution of all great Debian releases.

You guys are awesome 

Sincerely,
Joe Roberts II

Address
Joe Roberts II
2075 Browns Fork Rd
Hazard, KY 41701

Phone - 1-606-335-8099