Re: duplicate package
On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 08:50:01AM +0800, winnie hw wrote: > When I ping from a debian system to a host destination, sometimes I get the > duplicated package. What does this mean? I believe you mean "duplicate packet". One of the possible causes for that would be having two hosts with the same IP address on the same network.
duplicate package
Hello When I ping from a debian system to a host destination, sometimes I get the duplicated package. What does this mean? Thank you. winnie.
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 14:05:20 -0700 Charles Curley wrote: > Oops. I was talking about grub, you about the initrd. Sorry for the > confusion. I did some more testing. I have three machines set up for testing this setup. dti386: virtual machine, 1 GB memory, pentium2 processor. It will run all the way through its preseed configuration and stop at partitioning the hard drive, where it is supposed to stop. 711983104 Jan 15 20:24 firmware-testing-i386-netinst.iso cdtest: virtual machine, 1 GB memory, Haswell-noTSX processor. I can boot the iso image. It immediately reports not finding the CD-ROM. 728760320 Jan 1 20:35 firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso The third one, white, has less than 256MB of memory. It complains of not enough memory after d-i boots. Using the same iso image as dti386, it does not find the iso image. On dti386, the output from mount once the installer has stopped running the preseed is: rootfs on / type rootfs (rw,size=1022128k,nr_inodes=125454) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,size=102216k,mode=755) proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=501832k,nr_inodes=125458,mode=755) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000) /dev/sr0 on /cdrom type iso9660 (ro,relatime,nojoliet,check=s,map=n,blocksize=2048,iocharset=utf8) /dev/sda5 on /media type vfat (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro) lsmod does not show "loop". It does show "cdrom" and "isofs", but then so do the other two. I conjecture there is some difference between the i386 iso image and the amd64 iso image. Any ideas? -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 19:09:39 + Brian wrote: > loop.ko is a kernel module. It is needed to mount an > installer ISO to access its contents. But it is not > present in the installer's initrd. lsinitramfs reveals > that fact. The first email at #724931 has it right: Oops. I was talking about grub, you about the initrd. Sorry for the confusion. I'm no expert on the initrd. So I mounted firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso on a local directory. As you say, running 'lsinitramfs initrd.gz | grep -i loop' does not turn up loop.ko. All I know is that using that iso image I can boot to the installer, so something is making the contents of that iso image available to the d-i kernel. As Alice would say, curiouser and curiouser. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On Sat 18 Feb 2023 at 09:06:11 -0700, Charles Curley wrote: > On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 18:55:03 +0700 > Max Nikulin wrote: > > > Due to the following message I am confused if it should work for > > Debian: > > > > Brian to debian-user. Re: problem with loading installer (hard disk > > method) Thu, 29 Dec 2022 17:42:59 +. > > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/?m=29122022172846.4fc3cfd29...@desktop.copernicus.org.uk > > > > > GRUB's loopback facility will not work with installer images. > > > They do not contain iso-scan. > > > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/618000 > > Date: 2011. > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/724931 > > Date 2013, last entry dated 2020. > > Neither one is marked as resolved. > > loopback.mod (not .ko) is available in grub for both Bullseye and > Bookworm. > > root@cdtest:~# find /boot/ -iname loop* > /boot/grub/i386-pc/loopback.mod > root@cdtest:~# Irrelevant when it comes to what the kernel wants to do. > I can't find iso-scan anywhere except as a part of the package > dracut-live, so I'm not sure it's relevant here. I conjecture that > telling the kernel where to find the iso image bypasses any need for > iso-scan. (See the first email in #724931.) loop.ko is a kernel module. It is needed to mount an installer ISO to access its contents. But it is not present in the installer's initrd. lsinitramfs reveals that fact. The first email at #724931 has it right: > The module 'loop.ko' is not shipped with the Debian > testing netinstall ISO. It should reside in > /lib/modules/3.10-2-amd64/kernel/drivers/block/. > Because it is missing, it is impossible to mount ISO > images during the install and thus preventing > installation from ISO, if the module is not manually > imported. As for iso-scan: https://packages.debian.org/sid/iso-scan Joey Hess is a well-respected ex-Debian developer who was very influential in installer development. He says at https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2013/09/msg00097.html > iso-scan is part of the Debian installer[1]. > > However, it is only included in the hd-media initrd. > There is no reason to include it on the regular CD > initrd, because isohybrid allows mounting the USB > stick directly. (Not a loop-mount of an iso file > included in some disk, which the hd-media initrd > handles.) > > [1] I wrote it. Always nice to have my Debian work > cited as another reason Ubuntu is better than Debian! -- Brian.
Re: snapd vs apt
On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 10:30:09AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > There are some hints at this in the GNU GPL (e.g. the sources have > > to be made available in their "preferred form"), but it goes much > > further, I think. > > As a long time Emacs hacker I can only agree. satisfying the legal part > of the definition of "Free Software" is just the first step. If you > care about "Free as in Free speech" you also want to go through extra > trouble to help your users becomes hackers/developers. Emacs is pretty special in this department. There is a key which takes you to a function documentation (so far, so good), but from there you can jump to that function's source, be it elisp or C. > Rather than focus on providing a slick&seamless experience you want to > focus on exposing your users to the program's source code. It comes > with its own downsides, of course. > > E.g. Emacs has not been internationalized yet, and it's not completely > clear that it should: to internationalize it well, we'd need for example > to replace `M-x` with something that uses translated command names > rather than using the names used in the source code. That would be > helpful for non-English users, obviously, but that would also make it > harder for them to know what to write in their `.emacs` and to > understand Emacs' source code. There's a funny anecdote for that: Back Then (TM) (it was Windows 3.1, Wikipedia says 1992 or thereabouts) Apple had this cool scripting language (was it Applescript?). It had a tokenized internal representation (was fashionable at the time). Of course, it was easy for them to localize the keywords, and they did [1]. Microsoft must have seen that and thought "Oh, we want that too". And they did (WinWord Basic or something). The snag was that this one only had a textual representation. The effect of all of this was that macros written in the USA couldn't run on a German computer (and vice versa, of course). Some kind of Midas touch, I guess. Cheers [1] I'm not sure this is a good idea. I lean on the side "it's not". -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Virtual machine affects client screen resolution
On Saturday 18 February 2023 12:17:20 am Max Nikulin wrote: > echo "$DISPLAY" So this got me curious, and I tried it out. In the terminal that's running inside of the virtualbox instance where I'm doing emails, it comes back with: :0 But in a terminal which is running on the host Debian system, it comes back with: :0.0 I wonder why the difference? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 18:55:03 +0700 Max Nikulin wrote: > Due to the following message I am confused if it should work for > Debian: > > Brian to debian-user. Re: problem with loading installer (hard disk > method) Thu, 29 Dec 2022 17:42:59 +. > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/?m=29122022172846.4fc3cfd29...@desktop.copernicus.org.uk > > > GRUB's loopback facility will not work with installer images. > > They do not contain iso-scan. > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/618000 Date: 2011. > > https://bugs.debian.org/724931 Date 2013, last entry dated 2020. Neither one is marked as resolved. loopback.mod (not .ko) is available in grub for both Bullseye and Bookworm. root@cdtest:~# find /boot/ -iname loop* /boot/grub/i386-pc/loopback.mod root@cdtest:~# I can't find iso-scan anywhere except as a part of the package dracut-live, so I'm not sure it's relevant here. I conjecture that telling the kernel where to find the iso image bypasses any need for iso-scan. (See the first email in #724931.) As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, I do have a rough script which automates most of the process of building the separate partition I use for these d-i images. I'll see if I can get that cleaned up and ready for prime time in the next few days. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: snapd vs apt
> The virtual environment model is a containerization: we're going > to separate the versions of language and libraries that we use from > everything else on the system so that we don't have to worry > about cross-interference. That allows multiple projects to work > on the same system. That also prevents combining two projects (because they all too often depend on different versions of the same libraries). So, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread it ends up going down the path where the developers only care about *their* own use of the code. Users are presumed to be "pure users" who may have legal access to the code but aren't really expected to do anything with the code. > Those were the pro arguments. The con arguments are that every > project needs to have all dependencies tracked, and if necessary > rebuilt when a security, performance or correctness problem is > solved -- independently. Organizations need to understand that > these things have costs. Then they can make decisions. Sadly, those who make the decisions can all too often arrange so that someone else gets to pay the costs. Stefan
Re: snapd vs apt
> There are some hints at this in the GNU GPL (e.g. the sources have > to be made available in their "preferred form"), but it goes much > further, I think. As a long time Emacs hacker I can only agree. satisfying the legal part of the definition of "Free Software" is just the first step. If you care about "Free as in Free speech" you also want to go through extra trouble to help your users becomes hackers/developers. Rather than focus on providing a slick&seamless experience you want to focus on exposing your users to the program's source code. It comes with its own downsides, of course. E.g. Emacs has not been internationalized yet, and it's not completely clear that it should: to internationalize it well, we'd need for example to replace `M-x` with something that uses translated command names rather than using the names used in the source code. That would be helpful for non-English users, obviously, but that would also make it harder for them to know what to write in their `.emacs` and to understand Emacs' source code. Stefan
Re: ps and AIX field descriptors
On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 10:28:43PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 17 Feb 2023 at 11:30:43 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 09:20:34AM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > $ ps -eo '%p %C' | sed -e 's/\([^ ]\+\) /\1|/;'
> > Eww, GNUisms.
>
> I don't keep a list of differences to hand, but I guess you'd prefer:
>
> $ ps -eo '%p %C' | sed -E 's/([^ ]+) /\1|/;'
> PID|%CPU
> 1| 0.0
> 2| 0.0
That's *slightly* better, in that it works on both GNU and BSD (and
maybe some future edition of POSIX -- I've been told they're considering
adopting the -E flag). A truly portable version would either use \{1,\}
or would simply repeat itself: [^ ][^ ]* (The latter is by far the
more common, especially in scripts that target ancient Unixes where \{1,\}
might not work.)
However, a bigger issue is that your command only works for the two-column
case. It doesn't support more columns:
unicorn:~$ ps -o '%p|%U|%a'
PID|USER|COMMAND
1010|greg|bash
2093990|greg|ps -o %p|%U|%a
unicorn:~$ ps -o '%p %U %a' | sed -E 's/([^ ]+) /\1|/;'
PID|USER COMMAND
1010|greg bash
2093858|greg ps -o %p %U %a
2093859|greg sed -E s/([^ ]+) /\1|/;
And even if you extended it in the "obvious" way, it would break down on
columns that can contain internal whitespace (e.g. %a).
> > That aside, a workaround like this is ugly and should
> > not be needed.
>
> The OP wrote: "How can I restore the previous behaviour that
> allowed other than whitespace separators between fields?"
>
> If that's the required format, what are the alternatives?
Because data fields can contain internal whitespace, the only way to
parse the output of ps and determine the right spot to put pipelines
(or whatever) would be to parse the header row. All of the headers
listed under "AIX format specifiers" are free of whitespace. So, one
could in theory parse that line, determine the column numbers where
each data field will end, and then replace spaces with pipelines in
those column numbers.
It should be noted that there appear to be two TYPES of data fields:
numeric and string. Look at this example:
unicorn:~$ ps -o '%C %g %n %p %U %a'
%CPU RGROUPNI PID USER COMMAND
0.0 greg 01010 greg bash
0.0 greg 0 2094243 greg ps -o %C %g %n %p %U %a
The "%CPU", "NI" and "PID" fields are right-justified. The "RGROUP",
"USER" and "COMMAND" fields are left-justified.
This means the header parser will also need to contain knowledge about
each header -- whether it's left-justified (string) or right- (numeric).
With all those pieces, I think the problem can be "solved", although I
wouldn't care to write such a thing. Time spent on writing that
parser/filter would be better spent advocating to restore the previous
functionality, IMHO.
Re: snapd vs apt
to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 06:55:52PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote: > > I can't stand those "applications" (Ruby, Python, I'm looking at > you) which have to run in some kind of "virtual environment". It's not a requirement; it's a support system for developers to manage dependencies, because they can't depend on a Debian-like organization to make things stable. The virtual environment model is a containerization: we're going to separate the versions of language and libraries that we use from everything else on the system so that we don't have to worry about cross-interference. That allows multiple projects to work on the same system. Those were the pro arguments. The con arguments are that every project needs to have all dependencies tracked, and if necessary rebuilt when a security, performance or correctness problem is solved -- independently. Organizations need to understand that these things have costs. Then they can make decisions. -dsr-
Re: xscreensaver fails to activate via "Preview" button or via "Blank after" setting
On 2/17/23, Mike Kupfer wrote: > Celejar wrote: > >> The logs show regular deactivate events like the following every 20 >> seconds: >> >> ClientMessage DEACTIVATE: already inactive, resetting activity time >> >> I saw this: >> >> https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/faq.html#no-blank >> >> I guess I have to figure out what application is sending these messages? >> Firefox? I do tend to keep a lot of tabs open. > > I recall seeing something several months ago about the Xfce power > manager fighting with xscreensaver, though I'm not able to find it right > now. If you have the Xfce power manager configured to manage the > display, you could try disabling that. Was it maybe a comment here? As in.. a comment I made? A year ago, apparently. It looks like I ultimately threw in the towel and opted for only power managing. My memory recall is that the conflict kept locking my Debian install up to the point of requiring a hardware button reboot. That obviously kills anything you have open and are working on at that moment. If I get my newest debootstrap booting, I'll play with it, too. I do like those screensavers as well as the artistic talent it takes to create them. :) Cindy :) -- Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * N.B. elbrus 5 minutes after I posted yesterday: "bookworm freeze" (as in.. not trixie). CHECK! *
Re: cpu supported?
On 18/02/2023 08:15, Tixy wrote: On Sat, 2023-02-18 at 07:09 +, piorunz wrote: On 18/02/2023 06:17, Tom wrote: It also has 2 drives one is chip and the other spins. What? I'm guessing that's one SSD and one spinning magnetic media hard drive. Yes, I guessed that *after* I send the message. But still, it has nothing to do with processor, and SSD and HDD were supported by Linux since they (or Linux) began to exist. So no worries there :) -- With kindest regards, Piotr. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/ ⠈⠳⣄
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On Sat 18 Feb 2023 at 18:55:03 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 18/02/2023 12:26, Charles Curley wrote:
> > menuentry "Install Debian 12 OS (preseeded)" {
> > set root='hd0,msdos5'
> > set isofile=/firmware-testing-i386-netinst.iso
> > insmod part_msdos
> > insmod loopback
> > loopback loop (hd0,msdos5)$isofile
> > linux (loop)/install.386/vmlinuz auto=true file=/media/preseed.cfg
> > initrd (loop)/install.386/initrd.gz
> > }
>
> Due to the following message I am confused if it should work for Debian:
>
> Brian to debian-user. Re: problem with loading installer (hard disk method)
> Thu, 29 Dec 2022 17:42:59 +.
> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/?m=29122022172846.4fc3cfd29...@desktop.copernicus.org.uk
>
> > GRUB's loopback facility will not work with installer images.
> > They do not contain iso-scan.
> >
> > https://bugs.debian.org/618000
> > https://bugs.debian.org/724931
I am going to stick to that view and add that an initrd also
needs to contain loop.ko. 'lsinitramfs initrd.gz' is a useful
command. Bother items show in the hd-media intitrd but not in
the initrd of debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso.
I am mystified as to Charles Curley's experience.
--
Brian.
Re: snapd vs apt
On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 07:22:34PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 18/02/2023 13:33, tomas wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 12:50:12PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > > > > > When some application is packaged for Linux distributions it is easier to > > > rebuild it with a custom patch. I suspect that a developer distributing a > > > snap package may use specific and not well documented build environment. > > > > I think this one is a very important point which hasn't been addressed > > yet in this thread: Debian packages provide not only their source, but > > the whole build setup to rebuild that package (and most of them in a > > reproducible [1] way, i.e. they yield bit-for-bit identical binaries > > whenever the sources and the build dependencies stay constant). > > In my opinion reproducible build is a next order problem. I have seen > phrases like "it is too complicated to build". I am in doubts if such > application can still be called free software despite its license. It is > open source, but it is prohibitively difficult to build. Another interesting aspect of software freedom I've been thinking a lot about the last years: not only the legal freedom is relevant, but also the accessibility, and this has many dimensions, from ease of use (to different kinds of people, so what usually goes by "accessibility" is part of this) to ease of understanding and hacking. There are some hints at this in the GNU GPL (e.g. the sources have to be made available in their "preferred form"), but it goes much further, I think. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones
On 16/02/2023 22:41, Greg Wooledge wrote: 2) Also suggested: avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp This year, the output of that command no longer contains my printer's IP address. Last year, it did. I have no idea why this has changed. Avahi was mentioned in the ipv6 thread, so I decided to read links on the Debian wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_%28software%29 Avahi's performance resembles that of Bonjour, sometimes exceeding it; however Avahi can lose services when managing large numbers of requests simultaneously.[3] 3. Analysis of Peer-to-Peer Protocols Performance for Establishing a Decentralized Desktop Grid Middleware http://lipn.fr/~cerin/documents/PresentationSGS08heithem.pdf Unsure if it is relevant 4) Also mentioned: port 9100. For grins, I did "telnet 10.76.172.100 9100" and after that connected I typed "HELLO WORLD", then pressed Enter, then Ctrl-] q Enter to close the telnet session. I am curious if there is some tool convenient to get report concerning various service service discovery protocols provided at some ip (mDNS-SD, uPnP, etc.). Queue \\SPS\S010NEURD14841M Does anyone know what technology is used by windows nowadays (Simple Service Discovery Protocol, SSDP?) and which tools can be used in Linux to get list of services?
Re: Partitioning an SSD?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 23:09:15 -0600 David Wright wrote: > On Thu 16 Feb 2023 at 08:59:58 (+0100), Nicolas George wrote: > > pa...@quillandmouse.com (12023-02-15): > > > Here's why you would partition a drive. Reinstalling (which I end > > > up having to do every time Debian comes out with a new version > > > > Debian is not Ubuntu, major upgrade do not break the system. > > Judging by what we read here, they do when inexperienced people > try running testing or unstable for one reason or another. > (NB I'm casting no aspertions on paulf.) > > Cheers, > David. > OMG, I've been aspersed! ;-) Actually, I probably don't need to reinstall on upgrades. I've been using Debian for 20 years or so, and I've found there are sometimes problems with upgrades. More importantly, over time I accumulate packages which I don't need and which become cruft. Reinstalling zeroes everything back to only the packages I really want, and I can guarantee that things are now "clean". Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Re: snapd vs apt
On 18/02/2023 13:33, tomas wrote: On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 12:50:12PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: When some application is packaged for Linux distributions it is easier to rebuild it with a custom patch. I suspect that a developer distributing a snap package may use specific and not well documented build environment. I think this one is a very important point which hasn't been addressed yet in this thread: Debian packages provide not only their source, but the whole build setup to rebuild that package (and most of them in a reproducible [1] way, i.e. they yield bit-for-bit identical binaries whenever the sources and the build dependencies stay constant). In my opinion reproducible build is a next order problem. I have seen phrases like "it is too complicated to build". I am in doubts if such application can still be called free software despite its license. It is open source, but it is prohibitively difficult to build. I do not consider maintaining build rules as a pleasant activity during software development. Keeping scripts portable may require enough efforts. Certainly it is great when users do not have to compile applications themselves. Unfortunately convenient channels to deliver ready to use software caused emergence on an opposite issue. Nobody besides its developer can build it. It is expected that for the developer build scripts have lowest priority since there is no backpressure from maintainers of Linux distributions. Alleviation of an issue creates new challenges. More snap issues: I am unsure if it is possible to get debug symbols for snap packages. Attaching debugger to a sandboxed process may be not so easy as well. I have not investigated if I can tune level of isolation of snap packages for specific purposes. E.g. firefox snap does not allow opening PDF files from /usr/share/doc because system directories are isolated. On the other hand whole home directory is exposed for convenience. Can I start a browser instance with specific network namespace with firewall rules blocking access to local resources while another browser profile have access to the local network? Snap provides some knobs, however I an unsure that I will not face hard coded limitations. Not to mention complains that due to compressed image start time may became an issue.
Re: hard disk installation method fails
On 18/02/2023 12:26, Charles Curley wrote:
menuentry "Install Debian 12 OS (preseeded)" {
set root='hd0,msdos5'
set isofile=/firmware-testing-i386-netinst.iso
insmod part_msdos
insmod loopback
loopback loop (hd0,msdos5)$isofile
linux (loop)/install.386/vmlinuz auto=true file=/media/preseed.cfg
initrd (loop)/install.386/initrd.gz
}
Due to the following message I am confused if it should work for Debian:
Brian to debian-user. Re: problem with loading installer (hard disk
method) Thu, 29 Dec 2022 17:42:59 +.
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/?m=29122022172846.4fc3cfd29...@desktop.copernicus.org.uk
GRUB's loopback facility will not work with installer images.
They do not contain iso-scan.
https://bugs.debian.org/618000
https://bugs.debian.org/724931
Re: cpu supported?
On Sat, 2023-02-18 at 07:09 +, piorunz wrote: > On 18/02/2023 06:17, Tom wrote: > > > > It also has 2 drives one is chip and the other spins. > > What? > I'm guessing that's one SSD and one spinning magnetic media hard drive. -- Tixy
