apt colored output (was Re: Buster => Bullseye: packages kept back)
On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 davidson wrote:
Replying to myself.
According to [console_codes(4), under section ECMA-48 Set Graphics
Rendition], [this value] sets "blink off"
# apt -o "APT::Color::Highlight=^[[25m" search nethack
For me, this produces text in the default style (no highlights, no
colors).
This surprised me.
But it should not have, since the config option specified above just
tells apt to prefix the package name with a different PRETTIFY escape
sequence in output like
slashem-x11/stable 0.0.7E7F3-10 amd64
variant of Nethack (X11 window port)
One that happens to set the blink display attribute off. Vacuously, of
course, unless you happen to have "blink on" set.
Might as well replace 25 ("blink off") with any of
22set normal intensity
24underline off
25blink off
27reverse video off
or just
0 reset all attributes to their defaults
or nothing at all, ie
APT::Color::Highlight=^[[m
which is equivalent to
APT::Color::Highlight=^[[0m # reset all attributes to their defaults
This solves the problem of undesired colors, but not the emission of
unwanted escape sequences. And so there are bug reports like this:
#1010806 - apt: Avoid color output on monochrome terminals
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1010806
--
"What is your pronoun?" he inquired. "I have no pronoun," I answered,
hoping I knew his meaning. "What is your cog?" "My cog?" "Your sur
noun." "I haven't got that either."
-- Flann O'Brien, _The Third Policeman_
Re: Commands dont work
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 11:27:15PM -0400, darryl bruton wrote: > I just rebooted my lenovo ideapad to debian 11 and no commands work or > cant get wifi working im stuck on terminal I've tried everything > (kenneth@debianspiderweb) First things first: Did this ideapad run Debian before? If so - which version - did it work correctly? If not, how did you install Debian? Which image? If you know, where did you get it from?? No commands work - so, you can login? Really sorry - the list probably needs much more information. With every good wish, as ever, Andy Cater
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 03/04/2023 12:43, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:23:19PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote: I am just not sure, why perl6 is named to raku? Because Perl 5 still exists and is still seeing new releases, and what is now Raku is a completely different language, so there is no prospect of Perl 5 ceasing to be developed with all its users moving to what was then called Perl 6. Perl 6 needed a new name so as to stop being a source of confusion between itself and Perl 5. I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as python. The Python Software Foundation has marked CPython 2 (the default Python interpreter) as End Of Life since 2020. It also owns the trademark to "Python" and will not allow anyone else to make an interpreter that is called Python that extends the life of Python 2 with new features. The only existing distributable versions of CPython 2 are either old releases or strictly security fixes. The PSF wants Python 2 to die; they only concern themselves with Python 3. There are actively developed language interpreters that are compatible with Python 2 that aren't called Python, e.g. PyPy and Jython. So in fact even Python 2 is not yet dead as a language. If perl6 was just named as perl6, isn't it more clear? Perl 5 still has plenty of active developers of both itself and applications written in it who don't want to move to Raku. Raku is a lot more different to Perl 5 than Python 3 is different to Python 2. The Perl Foundation (which owns the Perl and Raku trademarks) doesn't want Perl 5 to die. So hopefully you can see now that things are different because things are different. That's good info for perl5 and 6. Thanks for telling us. regards.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Hello, On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:23:19PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote: > I am just not sure, why perl6 is named to raku? Because Perl 5 still exists and is still seeing new releases, and what is now Raku is a completely different language, so there is no prospect of Perl 5 ceasing to be developed with all its users moving to what was then called Perl 6. Perl 6 needed a new name so as to stop being a source of confusion between itself and Perl 5. > I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as > python. The Python Software Foundation has marked CPython 2 (the default Python interpreter) as End Of Life since 2020. It also owns the trademark to "Python" and will not allow anyone else to make an interpreter that is called Python that extends the life of Python 2 with new features. The only existing distributable versions of CPython 2 are either old releases or strictly security fixes. The PSF wants Python 2 to die; they only concern themselves with Python 3. There are actively developed language interpreters that are compatible with Python 2 that aren't called Python, e.g. PyPy and Jython. So in fact even Python 2 is not yet dead as a language. > If perl6 was just named as perl6, isn't it more clear? Perl 5 still has plenty of active developers of both itself and applications written in it who don't want to move to Raku. Raku is a lot more different to Perl 5 than Python 3 is different to Python 2. The Perl Foundation (which owns the Perl and Raku trademarks) doesn't want Perl 5 to die. So hopefully you can see now that things are different because things are different. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 05:44:31AM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > David Christensen wrote: > > > Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use > > it. Whitespace as syntax would only make that harder. > > But if the whitespace is semantic, there's no saying it can't > be used to produce even more - indeed, of its own kind, even. [1] Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language) -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 07:24:25PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: > On 4/2/23 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > > I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me off. > > Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to learn 'make', > > it's a sin that cannot be forgiven. > > +1 > > > Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use it. Whitespace > as syntax would only make that harder. It does. Python lambdas /have/ to be one-liners. Guido Van Rossum's comment on that is "well, Python isn't Lisp". More power to him, les Python for me :) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 09:16:08PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > But development is faster with Python [...] > >>> > >>> Is it? > >> > >> Yes. > > > > Development is fastest using whatever language you know > > best. This is not an objective argument. > > Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in > Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or, if > you will, the same in less time. I've seen people cutting off part of a door with a bread knife. If you measure a tool by what a novice can achieve with it, then, well, that's some metrics. "When someone says 'I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done,' give him a lollipop." [1] -- Alan Perlis Cheers [1] https://users.monash.edu/~lloyd/tildeMisc/1982/Perlis-Epigrams.html -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 03/04/2023 04:59, Tom Browder wrote: On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 3:42 PM Michel Verdier wrote: Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit : > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the > European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in > perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference Larry Wall and his many helpers released Perl 6 (now Raku) on Christmas Day, 2015. It is a much more modern language than Python, and it was designed as a "one-hundred year language." Check it out at https://Raku.org. -Tom I am just not sure, why perl6 is named to raku? for instance, in my default installation of debian 11, it has python3 pre-installed. $ python3 -V Python 3.9.2 I think python3 is much different to python2, but it's still naming as python. If perl6 was just named as perl6, isn't it more clear? regards. Corey
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Hello, On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 05:41:14AM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Andy Smith wrote: > > > For example, even if some AI assistant is written in Python, > > and even if you can ask it to spit out a device driver for > > the Linux kernel that does X and Y with Z hardware, do you > > think the device driver that it spits out will itself be > > written in Python? > > It is up to the AIs to decide what languages, editors etc each > and every one of them selects to use if it is FOSS, right? The argument being responded to is roughly that "a popular AI coding assistant is written in Python, and Python is a Turing-complete language, therefore there doesn't need to be any programming language other than Python." As long as there are environments where Python cannot be a choice — and Linux kernel drivers are currently one of those — there's always going to be alternatives to Python. Even if you imagine that such an AI might produce Python that acts as some higher-level generator of low-level object code that no human needs to look at, well, that's already the case with C and assembly language yet multiple assembly languages still exist and are used for real work, not just hobby purposes. So it really just seems like a thought experiment with very little applicability to the real world at least for the foreseeable future. AI coding assistants are not going to cause all programming languages to become defunct in favour of any one successor. Someone preparing for a programming career today still very much needs to look at what languages are used there and what's up-and-coming there. Even if they *do* ever use an AI assistant, that AI assistant likely won't be helping them write Python. It's completely domain-specific and going to remain so for a long time. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
David Christensen wrote: > Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use > it. Whitespace as syntax would only make that harder. But if the whitespace is semantic, there's no saying it can't be used to produce even more - indeed, of its own kind, even. In Computer Security it is known as the "whiteout" attack vector. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Commands dont work
I just rebooted my lenovo ideapad to debian 11 and no commands work or cant get wifi working im stuck on terminal I've tried everything (kenneth@debianspiderweb)
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 14:38, Emanuel Berg wrote: David Christensen wrote: For sysadmin, I *use* what comes on the platform. On Debian: 2023-04-02 13:40:08 root@taz ~ # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a 11.6 Linux taz 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1 (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux 2023-04-02 13:40:17 root@taz ~ # echo $PATH | tr ':' '\n' | perl -MFile::Slurp -ne 'chomp;@e=read_dir($_,prefix=>1); print map "$_\n",@e'|xargs file|perl -pe 's/\S+\s+//'|grep -v 'symbolic link'|perl -pe 's/, dynamically linked.+//'|sort|uniq -c|sort -rn 1868 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 356 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable 192 Perl script text executable 40 Python script, ASCII text executable 36 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable 30 setuid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 20 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 16 setgid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 14 Tcl script, ASCII text executable 10 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) 8 POSIX shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 4 Python script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 4 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable, with very long lines 2 a /usr/bin/env sh script, ASCII text executable 2 a /bin/mksh script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 2 Python script, ISO-8859 text executable 2 Java source, UTF-8 Unicode text 2 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) 2 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable [...] Psychedelic! :O Well done! Okay, so there is more Perl than Python, but both are prominent, so maybe and should have an understanding of both then ... and not so difficult to do, right? But you change that stuff, or use Perl/Python as glue? If you are, maybe either works pretty well, ey? The idea of userland tools that read lines of plaintext from standard input, write lines of plaintext to standard output, and whose input and output streams can be strung together into pipelines was novel at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_(Unix) On 4/2/23 14:59, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Side note, many guys say they only use sh because bash, zsh > etc requires them being installed, I don't see how that can be > problem on Unix systems. Of course, zsh can't be moved to > a computer without zsh itself, but how is that less portable > just because they add super-cryptic syntax to do fancy stuff? AIUI the practice has been to write Bourne shell scripts because nearly every Unix or Unix-like system has /bin/sh installed. Unfortunately, userland tools on different Unix and Unix-like operating systems or platforms do not have the same names (paths), do accept the same options, do not produce the same output, and/or do not produce the same warnings and/or errors. This includes /bin/sh. One of my favorite Perl sysadmin tricks is to generate shell commands and run them on remote hosts via SSH. In the past, I have installed /bin/bash everywhere to simplify the Perl code. My current practice is to keep the shell commands simple enough so as to avoid the incompatibilities. > I mean, it isn't the features we port, but the shell? In this context, I would interpret "port" to mean compiling the shell program from source code on a specific operating system or platform. So, to run a Zsh script on a given computer, the Zsh program needs to be compiled and installed on that computer. Package managers allow an expert to do the former and everyone else to do the latter. David
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Andy Smith wrote: > For example, even if some AI assistant is written in Python, > and even if you can ask it to spit out a device driver for > the Linux kernel that does X and Y with Z hardware, do you > think the device driver that it spits out will itself be > written in Python? It is up to the AIs to decide what languages, editors etc each and every one of them selects to use if it is FOSS, right? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: How to get rid of the synaptic message (mentioned below) at the end of installing a package?
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 Susmita/Rajib wrote:
My illustrious team leaders and senior debian-user list-members,
My present Debian system installed from "Official Debian GNU/Linux
Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46"
While installing a package I receive this following message:
I do not use synaptic, and know nothing about it other than that it is
a GUI package manager.
The warning below looks to me as though synaptic tried (and failed) to
store a temporary file in root's home directory.
If I were in your place, I would wonder why it did not use the
invoking user's home directory instead.
Maybe there are reasons. I would want to know what they are, and
endeavor to judge for myself whether they are good ones.
W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file
'/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_sh' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. -
pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
This matches a bug report:
Bug #864179 - synaptic: Message appears:
"W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file
'/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_sh' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. -
pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permiso denegado)"
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=864179
What should I do to address this report [...]
You could send a message to
864...@bugs.debian.org
informing the maintainer that the bug affects you.
[...] or stop receiving this message?
You could use a different tool for package management, like apt,
aptitude, or apt-{get,cache,etc}.
It doesn't appear to be a harmful report so far as my system is
concerned.
I am not qualified to confirm or deny the accuracy of this perception.
My user-id can't access root report, I guess.
What you mean by this is unclear to me. Are you not the administrator
of the machine? What "root report" are you referring to?
But any advice would be welcome.
I would not ignore warnings from a package manager.
--
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Hello, On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 04:59:15PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote: > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl. > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? I don't accept the premise that it ever was the first choice, and I say that as someone who likes Perl and writes it nearly every day. I think you should ask a better question, one that more precisely covers what exactly it is that you want to know. Looking back at most of your recent posts to this list I'd give that same advice in response to many of them, I'm afraid. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Hello, On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 11:36:16PM +0200, Oliver Schoede wrote: > I don't see much of a reason for learning Perl today unless you're > a die-hard hobbyist with near infinite amount of time and an > undying penchant for obsolete technology. Perl continues to get new releases and new features. Just because it has less of a user base than it once did does not mean it is obsolete. If you don't have to support some application written in Perl then it's hard to see a compelling reason to learn it, but there are plenty of people who do have to do that, and plenty of new language features for them to keep up to speed with. Programming is extremely domain-specific and AI will not change that any time soon, although it may well chip away at the use cases for simple standalone throw-away scripting tasks. For example, even if some AI assistant is written in Python, and even if you can ask it to spit out a device driver for the Linux kernel that does X and Y with Z hardware, do you think the device driver that it spits out will itself be written in Python? Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me off. Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to learn 'make', it's a sin that cannot be forgiven. +1 Code that writes code is a very useful technique, and I use it. Whitespace as syntax would only make that harder. David
Re: A Campaign Aide Didn’t Write That Email. A.I. Did. -- NYT
None of this is surprising. I’m scared of criminals using it From my iPad Betty > On Apr 2, 2023, at 6:52 PM, ghe2001 wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > This is from a few days ago -- all of them are doing it. I'm assuming this > story wasn't written by some AI software. This email wasn't. Which is > exactly what it'd say if it was... > > > By Shane Goldmacher > > The Democratic Party has begun testing the use of artificial intelligence to > write first drafts of some fund-raising messages, appeals that often perform > better than those written entirely by human beings. > > Fake A.I. images of Donald J. Trump getting arrested in New York spread > faster than they could be fact-checked last week. > > And voice-cloning tools are producing vividly lifelike audio of President > Biden — and many others — saying things they did not actually say. > > Artificial intelligence isn’t just coming soon to the 2024 campaign trail. > It’s already here. > > The swift advance of A.I. promises to be as disruptive to the political > sphere as to broader society. Now any amateur with a laptop can manufacture > the kinds of convincing sounds and images that were once the domain of the > most sophisticated digital players. This democratization of disinformation is > blurring the boundaries between fact and fake at a moment when the acceptance > of universal truths — that Mr. Biden beat Mr. Trump in 2020, for example — is > already being strained. > > And as synthetic media gets more believable, the question becomes: What > happens when people can no longer trust their own eyes and ears? > > Inside campaigns, artificial intelligence is expected to soon help perform > mundane tasks that previously required fleets of interns. Republican and > Democratic engineers alike are racing to develop tools to harness A.I. to > make advertising more efficient, to engage in predictive analysis of public > behavior, to write more and more personalized copy and to discover new > patterns in mountains of voter data. The technology is evolving so fast that > most predict a profound impact, even if specific ways in which it will upend > the political system are more speculation than science. > > “It’s an iPhone moment — that’s the only corollary that everybody will > appreciate,” said Dan Woods, the chief technology officer on Mr. Biden’s 2020 > campaign. “It’s going to take pressure testing to figure out whether it’s > good or bad — and it’s probably both.” > > OpenAI, whose ChatGPT chatbot ushered in the generative-text gold rush, has > already released a more advanced model. Google has announced plans to expand > A.I. offerings inside popular apps like Google Docs and Gmail, and is rolling > out its own chatbot. Microsoft has raced a version to market, too. A smaller > firm, ElevenLabs, has developed a text-to-audio tool that can mimic anyone’s > voice in minutes. Midjourney, a popular A.I. art generator, can conjure > hyper-realistic images with a few lines of text that are compelling enough to > win art contests. > > “A.I. is about to make a significant change in the 2024 election because of > machine learning’s predictive ability,” said Brad Parscale, Mr. Trump’s first > 2020 campaign manager, who has since founded a digital firm that advertises > some A.I. capabilities. > > Disinformation and “deepfakes” are the dominant fear. While forgeries are > nothing new to politics — a photoshopped image of John Kerry and Jane Fonda > was widely shared in 2004 — the ability to produce and share them has > accelerated, with viral A.I. images of Mr. Trump being restrained by the > police only the latest example. A fake image of Pope Francis in a white puffy > coat went viral in recent days, as well. > > Many are particularly worried about local races, which receive far less > scrutiny. Ahead of the recent primary in the Chicago mayoral race, a fake > video briefly sprung up on a Twitter account called “Chicago Lakefront News” > that impersonated one candidate, Paul Vallas. > > “Unfortunately, I think people are going to figure out how to use this for > evil faster than for improving civic life,” said Joe Rospars, who was chief > strategist on Senator Elizabeth Warren’s 2020 campaign and is now the chief > executive of a digital consultancy. > > Those who work at the intersection of politics and technology return > repeatedly to the same historical hypothetical: If the infamous “Access > Hollywood” tape broke today — the one in which Mr. Trump is heard bragging > about assaulting women and getting away with it — would Mr. Trump acknowledge > it was him, as he did in 2016? > > The nearly universal answer was no. > > “I think about that example all the time,” said Matt Hodges, who was the > engineering director on Mr. Biden’s 2020 campaign and is now executive > director of Zinc Labs, which invests in Democratic technology. Republicans, > he
Re: Which Diff tool could I use for visually comparing two text files where Word Wrap is possible?
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 Susmita/Rajib wrote: [trimmed: email headers] On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 Susmita/Rajib wrote: [ ... ] You do not tell us what application you are using to view the file contents. If it is not a terminal application, it might well fail to independently implement for your delightful spectation the ECMA-48 set graphics control sequences. [ ... ] Sorry for replying late. Take all the time you like. Eisenhower tells us that what is urgent is rarely important, and that what is important is rarely urgent. It is the same lxterminal available with the live ISO as narrated earlier. Was it not apparent from my email? I do not recall you specifying here what terminal you use. And it is interesting to know. But I meant to ask something different. I will try to be more clear. You have reported that redirecting icdiff output to a file, in your words, "drops all colors". And so I have three questions: 1. Show us the full command line you enter, to redirect the output of icdiff to a file. 2. Show us the full command line you enter, to view the contents of that file. 3. For a suitable pair of files, report whether colors are displayed as expected when you do $ icdiff file1 file2 > pretty_diff $ less -R pretty_diff -- "The first beginnings of wisdom," he said, "is to ask questions but never to answer any. You get wisdom from asking and not from answering." -- Flann O'Brien, _The Third Policeman_
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 14:36, Oliver Schoede wrote: Seems to me people easily forget this but Perl was intended, created to be a tool. A text processing tool. Not a language, or environment like Python. https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3394 Marjorie: Back in the beginning, what inspired you to write Perl? Larry: ... The beginnings of Perl were directly inspired by running into a problem I couldn't solve with the tools I had. Or rather, that I couldn't easily solve. As the Apostle Paul so succinctly put it, “All things are possible, but not all things are expedient.” I could have solved my problem with awk and shell eventually, but I possess a fortuitous surplus of the three chief virtues of a programmer: Laziness, Impatience and Hubris. I was too lazy to do it in awk because it would have been hard to get awk to jump through the hoops I was wanting it to jump through. I was too impatient to wait for awk to finish because it was so slow. And finally, I had the hubris to think I could do better. So is it still the first choice for sysadmin work on Linux? Well I doubt it, I also doubt it ever was. That would be shell. ;) +1 Be that as it may I don't see much of a reason for learning Perl today unless you're a die-hard hobbyist with near infinite amount of time and an undying penchant for obsolete technology. I find Perl to be very useful for a great many other tasks, including sysadmin. People can and do write anything from throw-away one-liners to N-tier network applications in Perl; some "bet their business" on Perl. Gaining basic proficiency with Perl requires a moderate investment of time, money, and effort. ~25 years ago, I bought the Llama book, worked through the first ~30% in one afternoon, and loved it. After that, the Cookbook provided me with the examples and explanations I needed to start writing useful Perl scripts. The Camel book is the language reference; for when you need definitive information: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-perl-8th/9781492094944/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/perl-cookbook-2nd/0596003137/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/programming-perl-4th/9781449321451/ Perl is not obsolete; Perl is mature. David
Re: A Campaign Aide Didn’t Write That Email. A.I. Did. -- NYT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Very sorry. email error. -- Glenn English -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: ProtonMail wsBzBAEBCAAnBQJkKil5CRCf14YxgqyMMhYhBCyicw9CUnAlY0ANl5/XhjGC rIwyAADlBgf/RkUCFtiELiRGD8ZgCfwFPq/Lo3pNC4pB38JdVpO2id8P4j2p SNN7lgQ4g8K0QokTNzF3tsaydZ5HxbQOMEy1dZDIoKtXUv69afKZwx4wR6L2 2rdAuMEul2ThqnxqK46K9boXk7uHyitHmXTBlrRgpfWx/MaVawpUehvhsBUK 7hyiX/1XcC3R7BjOmDMxOn1c05C+A+A4Iawv5+0PSo5yQNOrbDimldwJDaf9 k8F6nyemR/BsncAcdL79QjuyOcAJPzAQPqFRwFRBm5H2kNEX41aKPx1xP0Za TotTz7DdZT21bYrvAPdAPED7Ckd09DzMY74mc0QPg9SEy9wv9v5bpw== =LLSv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: A Campaign Aide Didn’t Write That Email. A.I. Did. -- NYT
ghe2001 quotes: > And as synthetic media gets more believable, the question becomes: > What happens when people can no longer trust their own eyes and ears? When they are actually using them. Which they are not doing when viewing "media". Actually, you should not entirely trust your own eyes and ears either. Go watch a good stage magician. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Our production system is using heavily perl (many thousand lines of perl5 code) - it's mod_perl, but still perl. Thanks.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
David Christensen wrote: > Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp [...] I have thought about that - is Lisp possible without them? But how do you then know priority? I'm sure someone tried to get rid of them, but how? > the use of white space as syntax in Python AKA "significant whitespace" in CS lingo :) > In contrast, postmodernism allows for cultural and personal > context in the interpretation of any work of art. How you > dress is your business. It's the origin of the Perl slogan: > "There's More Than One Way To Do It!" While I agree with that slogan - it's obvious, we see it every day, everywhere - zsh has the shell like iteration loop, but also the for loop, Elisp has CL-like functions (implemented in Elisp), and isn't CL the programmable programming language, even? So cred to Perl for the slogan but "There Are More Than Perl that" ... uhm, whatever. And what about LaTeX? A zillion ways to output the same document, basically. > The reason Perl gives you more than one way to do anything > is this: I truly believe computer programmers want to be > creative, and they may have many different reasons for > wanting to write code a particular way. What you choose to > optimize for is your concern, not mine. I just supply the > paint—you paint the picture. I agree but I think maybe the success of Python, and its development speed, is actually because of some of that rigidness, yes, including the whitespace lack of freedom. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
A Campaign Aide Didn’t Write That Email. A.I. Did. -- NYT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 This is from a few days ago -- all of them are doing it. I'm assuming this story wasn't written by some AI software. This email wasn't. Which is exactly what it'd say if it was... By Shane Goldmacher The Democratic Party has begun testing the use of artificial intelligence to write first drafts of some fund-raising messages, appeals that often perform better than those written entirely by human beings. Fake A.I. images of Donald J. Trump getting arrested in New York spread faster than they could be fact-checked last week. And voice-cloning tools are producing vividly lifelike audio of President Biden — and many others — saying things they did not actually say. Artificial intelligence isn’t just coming soon to the 2024 campaign trail. It’s already here. The swift advance of A.I. promises to be as disruptive to the political sphere as to broader society. Now any amateur with a laptop can manufacture the kinds of convincing sounds and images that were once the domain of the most sophisticated digital players. This democratization of disinformation is blurring the boundaries between fact and fake at a moment when the acceptance of universal truths — that Mr. Biden beat Mr. Trump in 2020, for example — is already being strained. And as synthetic media gets more believable, the question becomes: What happens when people can no longer trust their own eyes and ears? Inside campaigns, artificial intelligence is expected to soon help perform mundane tasks that previously required fleets of interns. Republican and Democratic engineers alike are racing to develop tools to harness A.I. to make advertising more efficient, to engage in predictive analysis of public behavior, to write more and more personalized copy and to discover new patterns in mountains of voter data. The technology is evolving so fast that most predict a profound impact, even if specific ways in which it will upend the political system are more speculation than science. “It’s an iPhone moment — that’s the only corollary that everybody will appreciate,” said Dan Woods, the chief technology officer on Mr. Biden’s 2020 campaign. “It’s going to take pressure testing to figure out whether it’s good or bad — and it’s probably both.” OpenAI, whose ChatGPT chatbot ushered in the generative-text gold rush, has already released a more advanced model. Google has announced plans to expand A.I. offerings inside popular apps like Google Docs and Gmail, and is rolling out its own chatbot. Microsoft has raced a version to market, too. A smaller firm, ElevenLabs, has developed a text-to-audio tool that can mimic anyone’s voice in minutes. Midjourney, a popular A.I. art generator, can conjure hyper-realistic images with a few lines of text that are compelling enough to win art contests. “A.I. is about to make a significant change in the 2024 election because of machine learning’s predictive ability,” said Brad Parscale, Mr. Trump’s first 2020 campaign manager, who has since founded a digital firm that advertises some A.I. capabilities. Disinformation and “deepfakes” are the dominant fear. While forgeries are nothing new to politics — a photoshopped image of John Kerry and Jane Fonda was widely shared in 2004 — the ability to produce and share them has accelerated, with viral A.I. images of Mr. Trump being restrained by the police only the latest example. A fake image of Pope Francis in a white puffy coat went viral in recent days, as well. Many are particularly worried about local races, which receive far less scrutiny. Ahead of the recent primary in the Chicago mayoral race, a fake video briefly sprung up on a Twitter account called “Chicago Lakefront News” that impersonated one candidate, Paul Vallas. “Unfortunately, I think people are going to figure out how to use this for evil faster than for improving civic life,” said Joe Rospars, who was chief strategist on Senator Elizabeth Warren’s 2020 campaign and is now the chief executive of a digital consultancy. Those who work at the intersection of politics and technology return repeatedly to the same historical hypothetical: If the infamous “Access Hollywood” tape broke today — the one in which Mr. Trump is heard bragging about assaulting women and getting away with it — would Mr. Trump acknowledge it was him, as he did in 2016? The nearly universal answer was no. “I think about that example all the time,” said Matt Hodges, who was the engineering director on Mr. Biden’s 2020 campaign and is now executive director of Zinc Labs, which invests in Democratic technology. Republicans, he said, “may not use ‘fake news’ anymore. It may be ‘Woke A.I.’” For now, the frontline function of A.I. on campaigns is expected to be writing first drafts of the unending email and text cash solicitations. “Given the amount of rote, asinine verbiage that gets produced in politics, people will put it to work,” said
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 12:11, Greg Wooledge wrote: Development is fastest using whatever language you know best. I would add -- "that is suitable to the task". David p.s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 10:14, Emanuel Berg wrote: tomas wrote: But Python's lambdas are preposterous (not so Perl's ;-) Well, can't compare either to Lisp, the Pythagorean theorem of computing ... https://hop.perl.plover.com/ Preface Around 1993 I started reading books about Lisp, and I discovered something important: Perl is much more like Lisp than it is like C. If you pick up a good book about Lisp, there will be a section that describes Lisp’s good features. For example, the book Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming, by Peter Norvig, includes a section titled What Makes Lisp Different? that describes seven features of Lisp. Perl shares six of these features; C shares none of them. These are big, important features, features like first-class functions, dynamic access to the symbol table, and automatic storage management. Lisp programmers have been using these features since 1957. They know a lot about how to use these language features in powerful ways. If Perl programmers can find out the things that Lisp programmers already know, they will learn a lot of things that will make their Perl programming jobs easier. The one Lisp feature that is missing from (core) Perl is macros. Using the techniques learned from HOP, I use higher order functions to substitute for macros. Alternatively, there are macro modules available on CPAN: https://metacpan.org/search?size=20=macro David
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 10:09, Emanuel Berg wrote: Nicholas Geovanis wrote: Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in perl were fake :-) Maybe there are OO modules by now? https://perldoc.perl.org/perlootut#PERL-OO-SYSTEMS David
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 09:31, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the European CS tradition. Larry Wall said ... https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3394 Marjorie: In what way is Perl better than other scripting languages such as Python and Eiffel? Larry: Perl is unique, not just among scripting languages, but among computer languages in general. It's the only computer language consciously and explicitly designed to be postmodern. All other computer languages are still stuck in the modern era to some degree. ... Modernism was based on a kind of arrogance, a set of monocultural blinders that elevated originality above all else, and led designers to believe that if they thought of something cool, it must be considered universally cool. That is, if something's worth doing, it's worth driving into the ground to the exclusion of all other approaches. Look at the use of parentheses in Lisp or the use of white space as syntax in Python. ... In contrast, postmodernism allows for cultural and personal context in the interpretation of any work of art. How you dress is your business. It's the origin of the Perl slogan: “There's More Than One Way To Do It!” The reason Perl gives you more than one way to do anything is this: I truly believe computer programmers want to be creative, and they may have many different reasons for wanting to write code a particular way. What you choose to optimize for is your concern, not mine. I just supply the paint—you paint the picture. David
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 2023-04-02 14:57, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: I'll admit that when I first saw perl, I thought it was horrific and I swore to continue using awk and C and ... anything but perl. But then one day $job required me to learn perl so I did and have been a convert ever since. Perl definitely has the edge when you're working with text. CPAN, however Ooo, CPAN. I can't even think about CPAN without my blood pressure rising. (Don't ask. Just know that CPAN's stupidity has caused me untold amounts of grief.)
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Steve Sobol wrote: >> If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but >> there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter >> a little bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot. > > I'm seeing scripts written in Python far more often than > Perl these days 100%, it's much more popular. > but it is probably useful to at least be familiar with both Right. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Jude DaShiell wrote: > Perl or python, which has the most supported sysadmin tools? What do you mean, built into the actual languages? Or the number of tools people have written in either of those languages? We need a command for that as well ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 2023-04-02 02:24, Emanuel Berg wrote: If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter a little bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot. I'm seeing scripts written in Python far more often than Perl these days, but it is probably useful to at least be familiar with both. There are some very popular software packages, like Sympa and RT, that are written in Perl. Both are currently maintained and have dropped new releases recently.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
debian-user wrote: >>> Development is fastest using whatever language you know >>> best. This is not an objective argument. >> >> Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in >> Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or, >> if you will, the same in less time. > > I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me > off. Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to > learn 'make', it's a sin that cannot be forgiven. I know, I absolutely don't like it but I think maybe it is actually beneficial for the speed aspect since you don't fiddle around with it manually in order to get it to look your way ... Erlang, Haskell are notorious for this because of the emphasis on pattern matching, people spend hours aligning back and forth to make the code look logical as well ... > I'll admit that when I first saw perl, I thought it was > horrific and I swore to continue using awk and C and ... > anything but perl. But then one day $job required me to > learn perl so I did and have been a convert ever since. C looks much better than Perl but Python also don't look good, C looks better. But Lisp also looks good - well, often! C almost always looks good. C U! -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Perl or python, which has the most supported sysadmin tools? -- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. On Sun, 2 Apr 2023, Michel Verdier wrote: > Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit : > > > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the > > European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in > > perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference > > in python. 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned procedural, > > functional like lisp, or modern OO. > > IMO style is perhaps important for development. But libs et regex are > more important for sysadmin. I use python if a library is there or if I > need to interface another python program. In example mutagen for covering > mp3 files. And I use perl everywhere when I need a regex: parsing logs > and the like. Specially with backref and substitution which are painful > with python (IMO). > >
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Le 2 avril 2023 Emanuel Berg a écrit : > Hey, inspired by the other dude's awesome list of source code, > can't we have a command to parse Bibtex and find out who has > the more books :) Hum I think win** have even more books, still it's not the thing to learn for a sysadmin :) I read 1 book on Perl (was in '98, not much internet) and 0 on python.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Oliver Schoede wrote: > So is it still the first choice for sysadmin work on Linux? > Well I doubt it, I also doubt it ever was. That would be > shell. ;) Indeed, I thought about that! The shell. Side note, many guys say they only use sh because bash, zsh etc requires them being installed, I don't see how that can be problem on Unix systems. Of course, zsh can't be moved to a computer without zsh itself, but how is that less portable just because they add super-cryptic syntax to do fancy stuff? I mean, it isn't the features we port, but the shell? Maybe you guys know the answer to that, never understood it and heard it from several guys. > Be that as it may I don't see much of a reason for learning > Perl today unless you're a die-hard hobbyist with near > infinite amount of time and an undying penchant for > obsolete technology. Ikr? This is what I've been (trying) to say all the time ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Emanuel Berg wrote: > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > But development is faster with Python [...] > >>> > >>> Is it? > >> > >> Yes. > > > > Development is fastest using whatever language you know > > best. This is not an objective argument. > > Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in > Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or, if > you will, the same in less time. I'm afraid that Python has one specific feature that puts me off. Sensitivity to indentation. To those who first had to learn 'make', it's a sin that cannot be forgiven. I'll admit that when I first saw perl, I thought it was horrific and I swore to continue using awk and C and ... anything but perl. But then one day $job required me to learn perl so I did and have been a convert ever since.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
ghe2001 wrote:
> On Amazon, if you ask for books on raku, you get stuff about
> clay and kilns. If you ask for python, you get TV programs
> and snakes.
>
> If you ask for perl, you get Perl. That's one thing good old
> Perl has over the new stuff :-)
Haha, but haven't you seen like 1 zillion Python books?
Crypto Trade with Python, Game programming in Pygame, blah
blah blah (made up examples but I'm almost sure they exist)
I think I've seen <10 Perl books in my life ... and
I love books!
Hey, inspired by the other dude's awesome list of source code,
can't we have a command to parse Bibtex and find out who has
the more books :)
I don't think Lisp will win anyway, I have these in my own
file, and I know of "CLTL" [1] as well ...
@book{land-of-lisp,
author= {Conrad Barski},
isbn = {1593272812},
publisher = {No Starch},
title = {Land of Lisp},
year = {2010}
}
@book{lispcraft,
author= {Robert Wilensky},
isbn = {0393954420},
publisher = {Norton},
title = {LISPcraft},
year = {1984}
}
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_the_Language
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
David Christensen wrote: > For sysadmin, I *use* what comes on the platform. On Debian: > > 2023-04-02 13:40:08 root@taz ~ > # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a > 11.6 > Linux taz 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1 > (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux > > 2023-04-02 13:40:17 root@taz ~ > # echo $PATH | tr ':' '\n' | perl -MFile::Slurp -ne > 'chomp;@e=read_dir($_,prefix=>1); print map "$_\n",@e'|xargs > file|perl -pe 's/\S+\s+//'|grep -v 'symbolic link'|perl -pe > 's/, dynamically linked.+//'|sort|uniq -c|sort -rn >1868 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) > 356 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable > 192 Perl script text executable > 40 Python script, ASCII text executable > 36 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable > 30 setuid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) > 20 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) > 16 setgid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) > 14 Tcl script, ASCII text executable > 10 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) > 8 POSIX shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable > 4 Python script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable > 4 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable, with very long lines > 2 a /usr/bin/env sh script, ASCII text executable > 2 a /bin/mksh script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable > 2 Python script, ISO-8859 text executable > 2 Java source, UTF-8 Unicode text > 2 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) > 2 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable [...] Psychedelic! :O Well done! Okay, so there is more Perl than Python, but both are prominent, so maybe and should have an understanding of both then ... and not so difficult to do, right? But you change that stuff, or use Perl/Python as glue? If you are, maybe either works pretty well, ey? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 22:42:14 +0200
Michel Verdier wrote:
>IMO style is perhaps important for development. But libs et regex are
>more important for sysadmin. I use python if a library is there or if I
>need to interface another python program. In example mutagen for
>covering mp3 files. And I use perl everywhere when I need a regex:
>parsing logs and the like. Specially with backref and substitution
>which are painful with python (IMO).
>
That's the whole point IMO, and the question was specifically about
system administration purposes, no clue why Lisp popped up. Or why
Python yet again, not say Ruby, arguably more of an (once) intended
Perl heir. So Perl's basically still around where there's a lot of
ageing "just works" layer and where you don't havy many dependencies or
special needs regarding funky libraries, frameworks, etc. And it can be
mostly for the same reason we're literally keeping hundreds if not
thousands of shell scripts around, full with arcane sed and awk
incantations and whatnot. It's doing the job, so what? Personally I
never really bothered to learn awk, so I'm still using Perl, on a daily
basis in fact, but for exactly the stuff some others would pull out
sed/awk/... Scripting, programming in the very small or what I've seen
Perl being touted to be *meant* for already 30 years ago. The fact at
some point some folks tried, more or less successfully, to make
something else entirely out of it, won't change history. Seems to me
people easily forget this but Perl was intended, created to be a tool.
A text processing tool. Not a language, or environment like Python.
So is it still the first choice for sysadmin work on Linux? Well I
doubt it, I also doubt it ever was. That would be shell. ;)
Still recall some interview from a couple of years ago where Larry Wall
apparently struggled with the Perl 6 thing ("Raku"), and at some point
he said, kind of like it's his last straw, well maybe it's (6) gonna be
the language of the singularity. He didn't really smile, guess he even
shrugged his shoulders, it was quite dry. Was he serious? Who knows,
it's Wall. Turns out though ChatGPT is--as virtually all ML
code--written in Python, that's at least according to Wikipedia and not
too surprising. There you go. Depending on what you make of it, there
may not come much after Python:
https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2023/1/267976-the-end-of-programming/fulltext
Be that as it may I don't see much of a reason for learning Perl today
unless you're a die-hard hobbyist with near infinite amount of time
and an undying penchant for obsolete technology.
Oliver
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Amazon, if you ask for books on raku, you get stuff about clay and kilns. If you ask for python, you get TV programs and snakes. If you ask for perl, you get Perl. That's one thing good old Perl has over the new stuff :-) -- Glenn English -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: ProtonMail wsBzBAEBCAAnBQJkKfPlCRCf14YxgqyMMhYhBCyicw9CUnAlY0ANl5/XhjGC rIwyAACSrwgAhf+mjUhhvvE29cWAwtizea0qnvhCfQZjDuaGmfEq9iCudtAA HB+3Xj6OvAcq/ma+FAD3yph1qNQUGLxNtjulqG/2zu32etEW9TdC0QbzrZLD JPS7cI/TO8X84wSH5qh24HU4k/OrpYQjNeDTbhFOyDKWRmEBpunSDeuYwfSL w1NGNU2idW1NUd/S25/4H299/ofHPWUjafwemMpXJxC2cqXVFh3RKqMtbIhh /eeZ0VssegKrxikbt0Vl1EQR2pINvOs9KFJtMRolvF/9gvllK7X0a86zNwlI IBBGbSNCjSJQBepq1Fso6zWg/PCW5K+H9xjhW3ijA0vExmPnCXpXoA== =X6X2 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 22:32:51 +0200 Emanuel Berg wrote: > and SQL is pronounced "seekwell" :) No, it's pronounced "sqwill", as in something you really don't want to drink. > > Okay, my school isn't old school but it is getting there ... Give it time. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On 4/2/23 01:59, cor...@free.fr wrote: I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? Thanks. For sysadmin, I *use* what comes on the platform. On Debian: 2023-04-02 13:40:08 root@taz ~ # cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a 11.6 Linux taz 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1 (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux 2023-04-02 13:40:17 root@taz ~ # echo $PATH | tr ':' '\n' | perl -MFile::Slurp -ne 'chomp;@e=read_dir($_,prefix=>1); print map "$_\n",@e'|xargs file|perl -pe 's/\S+\s+//'|grep -v 'symbolic link'|perl -pe 's/, dynamically linked.+//'|sort|uniq -c|sort -rn 1868 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 356 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable 192 Perl script text executable 40 Python script, ASCII text executable 36 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable 30 setuid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 20 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 16 setgid ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV) 14 Tcl script, ASCII text executable 10 ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) 8 POSIX shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 4 Python script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 4 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable, with very long lines 2 a /usr/bin/env sh script, ASCII text executable 2 a /bin/mksh script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 2 Python script, ISO-8859 text executable 2 Java source, UTF-8 Unicode text 2 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux) 2 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable, with very long lines On FreeBSD: 2023-04-02 13:46:50 toor@f3 ~ # freebsd-version -kru 12.4-RELEASE-p1 12.4-RELEASE-p1 12.4-RELEASE-p2 2023-04-02 13:46:57 toor@f3 ~ # echo $PATH | tr ':' '\n' | perl -MFile::Slurp -ne 'chomp;@e=read_dir($_,prefix=>1); print map "$_\n",@e'|xargs file|perl -pe 's/\S+\s+//'|grep -v 'symbolic link'|perl -pe 's/, dynamically linked.+//'|sort|uniq -c|sort -rn 1022 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD) 91 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable 78 Perl script text executable 22 setuid ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD) 20 a /usr/local/bin/perl5.30.3 script, ASCII text executable 14 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), statically linked, for FreeBSD 12.4, FreeBSD-style, stripped 7 Python script, ASCII text executable 6 setgid ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD) 5 setuid, setgid ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD) 4 a /usr/bin/env /usr/local/bin/python3.9 script, ASCII text executable 4 POSIX shell script, Unicode text, UTF-8 text executable 3 Ruby script, ASCII text 1 POSIX shell script, ISO-8859 text executable 1 ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), statically linked, for FreeBSD 12.3, FreeBSD-style, with debug_info, not stripped 1 Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable I *write' Perl, Bourne, and Make. David
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 3:42 PM Michel Verdier wrote: > > Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit : > > > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the > > European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in > > perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference Larry Wall and his many helpers released Perl 6 (now Raku) on Christmas Day, 2015. It is a much more modern language than Python, and it was designed as a "one-hundred year language." Check it out at https://Raku.org. -Tom
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Le 2 avril 2023 Nicholas Geovanis a écrit : > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the > European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in > perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference > in python. 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned procedural, > functional like lisp, or modern OO. IMO style is perhaps important for development. But libs et regex are more important for sysadmin. I use python if a library is there or if I need to interface another python program. In example mutagen for covering mp3 files. And I use perl everywhere when I need a regex: parsing logs and the like. Specially with backref and substitution which are painful with python (IMO).
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
debian-user wrote: >> One aspect of Python is that so many people use it so there >> is so much information, web pages, books, the works. >> Whatever issue you have, Google will find a solution, >> pretty much every time. I don't have more than "I've done >> it" experience from Perl but if we compare Lisp to Python >> when it comes to readily available web (and other) >> resources, Python wins - and huge. > > Duh, Python has nearly as much as Perl maybe :) Introducing > Lisp as a substitute for comparison is a neat idea but is > still cheating! Yeah, good point, don't know where that came from, as for Python vs Perl with respect to development speed I have no idea since I don't have enough Perl experience, still, I think it's fair to say Python development is very fast if we don't compare it to anything else in particular. (Illogical, but you understand what I mean.) But okay then, learn Python first since it is much more in use, then? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
debian-user wrote: >> One aspect of Python is that so many people use it so there >> is so much information, web pages, books, the works. >> Whatever issue you have, Google will find a solution, >> pretty much every time. I don't have more than "I've done >> it" experience from Perl but if we compare Lisp to Python >> when it comes to readily available web (and other) >> resources, Python wins - and huge. > > Duh, Python has nearly as much as Perl maybe :) Introducing > Lisp as a substitute for comparison is a neat idea but is > still cheating! > > CPAN is still the original and best. > https://perldoc.perl.org/ is pretty good. There are > thousands (?) of books and lots of works, many of them > modules on CPAN. Then there's https://www.perlmonks.org/ or > just look at > https://perlhacks.com/articles/rtfm/perl-websites/ for > many more. Okay, maybe you're right ... Where I come from almost everyone knows some (enough) Python whereas Perl is much more old-school coolness. But granted I don't come from all places. But I still think I'm right, don't people say for example LAMP - Linux Apache MySQL Perl, nowadays Python, mostly? Isn't it much more in use? And "My" is a Swedish name, not an English possessive pronoun, and SQL is pronounced "seekwell" :) Okay, my school isn't old school but it is getting there ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Emanuel Berg wrote: > One aspect of Python is that so many people use it so there is > so much information, web pages, books, the works. > Whatever issue you have, Google will find a solution, pretty > much every time. I don't have more than "I've done it" > experience from Perl but if we compare Lisp to Python when it > comes to readily available web (and other) resources, Python > wins - and huge. Duh, Python has nearly as much as Perl maybe :) Introducing Lisp as a substitute for comparison is a neat idea but is still cheating! CPAN is still the original and best. https://perldoc.perl.org/ is pretty good. There are thousands (?) of books and lots of works, many of them modules on CPAN. Then there's https://www.perlmonks.org/ or just look at https://perlhacks.com/articles/rtfm/perl-websites/ for many more.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
> But development is faster with Python [...] Is it? >>> >>> Yes. >> >> Development is fastest using whatever language you know >> best. This is not an objective argument. > > Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in > Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or, > if you will, the same in less time. Lisp is a maximalist, universal language. Python is designed with certain aspects in mind. And quite successfully so! But, as I mentioned, it's not just the language itself, Python has this huge superstructure of support material/assets in different forms. That part becomes a chicken and egg discussion, but it's a fact anyway. Python is huge while Lisp is the underground. So the languages themselves, for whatever reasons (1), and the different sizes of the superstructures (2), for these two reasons and possibly others as well (?) it is just faster, less threshold, with Python. It's completely natural and we see it all the time. One hockey player is a power forward, another a playmaker (passer), a third a goal scorer, a forth a physical defenseman, and the fifth Mr Everything who can do it all. And in practice, to win the world championship, the defensive, physical player may have to end up scoring the game winning goal! It happens, just not as often as with the goal scorer. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Greg Wooledge wrote: But development is faster with Python [...] >>> >>> Is it? >> >> Yes. > > Development is fastest using whatever language you know > best. This is not an objective argument. Put it this way, a novice Python programmer can do more in Python than the novice Lisp programmer can do in Lisp, or, if you will, the same in less time. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 08:55:49PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > tomas wrote: > > >> But development is faster with Python [...] > > > > Is it? > > Yes. Development is fastest using whatever language you know best. This is not an objective argument.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
tomas wrote: >> But development is faster with Python [...] > > Is it? Yes. > Is it /better/, then? In that regard, yes. > Remember. All generalizations suck. Is it better to be all-around, or to be a specialist? Well, in general it's better to be all-around ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 07:14:06PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: [...] > But development is faster with Python [...] Is it? Is it /better/, then? Remember. All generalizations suck. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: error: out of memory
Sembla ser que no funciona. No se si atrevir-me a eliminar-ne les línies del status A veure si a algú se li acudeix el que fer. Gràcies *Xavier De Yzaguirre* xdeyzaguirre(at)gmail(dot)com +34 629 953 830 Missatge de Jordi Pujol del dia dg., 2 d’abr. 2023 a les 13:52: > Hola, > No comento gaires vegades, peró uns errors com aquests em fan ser > curiós, perquè son molt estranys, sembla com si la màquina fallés, > > Aquest error al instal.lar python far evident que els fitxers > d'aquests paquets en el disc son corruptes, > s'hauria de fer: > rm -vf /var/cache/apt/archives/python* > al resinstal.lar tornarà a descarregar els paquets > > Podría ser el disc dur, és lo més probable, hauries de fer algunes proves. > L'última vegada vaig solucionar-ho canviant el disc mecànic per un SSD > de 1TB. Va molt més depressa i no falla quasi mai. > > Salut, > Jordi Pujol > > On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 12:54 PM Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura > wrote: > > > > Bon dia de nou, > > Algú més s'ha trobat amb el problema del python3.11 al fer un apt > upgrade: > > 2023-04-02 11:52:18 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt upgrade > > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > > S'està calculant l'actualització… Fet > > S'instal·laran els paquets NOUS següents: > > linux-headers-6.1.0-7-amd64 linux-headers-6.1.0-7-common > linux-image-6.1.0-7-amd64 > > S'actualitzaran els paquets següents: > > console-setup console-setup-linux fuse3 installation-report > keyboard-configuration libdebconfclient0 libfuse3-3 libpackagekitqt5-1 > linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86 linux-doc > > linux-doc-6.1 linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 linux-kbuild-6.1 > linux-libc-dev xserver-common xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-legacy > > 18 actualitzats, 3 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 0 no actualitzats. > > S'ha d'obtenir 8.611 kB/137 MB d'arxius. > > Després d'aquesta operació s'utilitzaran 570 MB d'espai en disc > addicional. > > Voleu continuar? [S/n] > > Bai:1 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 fuse3 > amd64 3.14.0-3 [35,8 kB] > > Bai:2 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 libfuse3-3 > amd64 3.14.0-3 [88,0 kB] > > Bai:3 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 > xserver-common all 2:21.1.7-2 [2.381 kB] > > Bai:4 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 > xserver-xorg-legacy amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [2.387 kB] > > Bai:5 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 > xserver-xorg-core amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [3.719 kB] > > S'ha baixat 8.611 kB en 2s (4.713 kB/s) > > [master cf8db93] saving uncommitted changes in /etc prior to apt run > > Author: xavier > > 7 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 87 deletions(-) > > delete mode 100644 NetworkManager/system-connections/Proton VPN > ES#27.nmconnection > > delete mode 100644 > NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-ipv6leak-protection.nmconnection > > delete mode 100644 > NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-killswitch.nmconnection > > create mode 12 > "systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > > create mode 100644 > "systemd/system/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > > create mode 12 > "systemd/system/snapd.mounts.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > > S'estan llegint els canvis... Fet > > S'estan preconfigurant els paquets... > > setting xserver-xorg-legacy/xwrapper/allowed_users from configuration > file > > dpkg: s'ha produït un error greu irrecuperable, s'esta interrompent: > > el fitxer de la llista de fitxers del paquet «python3.11» conté un nom > de fitxer buit > > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) > > He provat les solucions habituals, > > 2023-04-02 12:02:35 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt install -f > > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > > 0 actualitzats, 0 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 18 no actualitzats. > > i res. També: > > 2023-04-02 12:04:27 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a > > Fe fet sudo apt -autoclean: > > 2023-04-02 12:07:29 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt autoclean > > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > > > > . > > > > Del libpython3.10-dbg 3.10.6-1 [13,8 MB] > > Del python3-dbus 1.3.2-1 [109 kB] > > Del python3-ibus-1.0 1.5.27-2 [277 kB] > > Del python3-keyring 23.9.1-1 [55,6 kB] > > Del python3-talloc 2.3.4-1 [17,7 kB] > > Del python3-systemd 235-1 [39,5 kB] > > Del python-jinja2-doc 3.0.3-2 [190 kB] > > Del python3-dulwich 0.20.46-1 [322 kB] > > Del python3-xdg 0.27-3 [38,8 kB] > > Del python3-tk 3.10.7-1 [109 kB] > > Del python3-gdal 3.5.2+dfsg-1 [938 kB] > > Del python3-psutil 5.9.2-1 [189 kB] > > Del python3-distutils 3.10.7-1 [141 kB] > > Del python3-jinja2 3.0.3-2 [121 kB] > > Del python3-gdbm 3.10.7-1 [19,1 kB] > >
Re : Re: Re : Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Ben merci ! ;-) C'est super sympa de prendre le temps de m'expliquer ça ! Justement j'étais contant que ça marche, mais j'étais embêté de ne pas savoir pourquoi. :-) Avec gratitude, -- Benoit Le dimanche 2 avril 2023 à 17:45, didier gaumet a écrit : > Le 02/04/2023 à 15:23, benoit a écrit : > [...] > > > libexiv2-27: > > Installé : 0.27.5-3.1 > > Candidat : 0.27.5-3.1 > > Table de version : > > *** 0.27.5-3.1 100 > > 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status > > 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 500 > > 500 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages > > 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 > > Packages > > [...] > > Tu as résolu ton souci grâce à l'aide de Bernard donc je ne réponds que > sur l'origine du problème: > le fait que libexiv2-27 soit installé en version 0.27.5-3.1 et que > celle-ci ne soit pas mentionnée dans un dépôt mais seulement en local > (/var/lib/dpkg/status) suggère que soit tu as installé cette version > (directement ou en tant que dépendance) depuis un dépôt (autre que > Bullseye ou Bullseye-security) que tu as cessé d'utiliser depuis, soit > que tu l'as installé (directement ou en tant que dépendance) depuis un > paquet que tu as téléchargé (hors apt ou aptitude) pour l'installer > localement. > > Dans ce genre de cas, les commandes: > - apt policy nom_paquet (pour voir quelles sont les versions installées > ou non et lesquelles sont dispo en local pou via les dépôts configurés) > - apt rdepends nom_paquet (pour voir quels sont les paquets qui > dépendent du paquet nom_paquet) > - aptitude why nom_paquet (plus précis que apt rdepends, permet de voir > pourquoi le paquet est installé, donc quel paquet parmi ceux listés par > apt rdepends a installé le paquet nom_paquet en tant que dependance) > > ensuite on a généralement les éléments pour savoir quoi > supprimer/purger, quoi installer, quoi reconfigurer, pour que tout > rentre dans l'ordre :-)
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
tomas wrote: >> Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and >> more in the European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly >> that the OO features in perl were fake :-) because it was >> another fad. You can feel the difference in python. >> 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned >> procedural, functional like lisp, or modern OO. > > But Python's lambdas are preposterous (not so Perl's ;-) Well, can't compare either to Lisp, the Pythagorean theorem of computing ... But development is faster with Python, it's a painful yet true fact that an average Python programmer can do in x time what skilled lispers can do in ... uhm, x + n time? Or something! -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
Nicholas Geovanis wrote: >> I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by >> perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? > > I first wrote perl on unix/linux in 1991. The first python > I wrote was about 10 years later. It feels like Perl is old, not ancient like Lisp, but old, while Python feels pretty modern, but the difference is actually pretty slim, Perl is from 1987, and Python from 1991. To be exact, Perl is from 1987-12-18, and Python from 1991-02-20, so Python is just 3y 2m 2d younger! > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and > more in the European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly > that the OO features in perl were fake :-) Maybe there are OO modules by now? > because it was another fad. You can feel the difference in > python. 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned > procedural, functional like lisp, or modern OO. Yeah, well, those paradigms are models to increase understanding and have people theorize back and forth, and there is nothing wrong with that, but IMO any good programming language should be able to do and express all those concepts, and more. One aspect of Python is that so many people use it so there is so much information, web pages, books, the works. Whatever issue you have, Google will find a solution, pretty much every time. I don't have more than "I've done it" experience from Perl but if we compare Lisp to Python when it comes to readily available web (and other) resources, Python wins - and huge. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 11:31:50AM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: [...] > Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the > European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in > perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference > in python. 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned procedural, > functional like lisp, or modern OO. But Python's lambdas are preposterous (not so Perl's ;-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023, 3:59 AM wrote: > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl. > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? > I first wrote perl on unix/linux in 1991. The first python I wrote was about 10 years later. By that time the Redhat/fedora/CentOS distro had hundreds of thousands of lines of python thruout it. I built the perl interpreter from source on IBM mainframes by 1994. Python is a more modern programming language than perl, and more in the European CS tradition. Larry Wall said directly that the OO features in perl were fake :-) because it was another fad. You can feel the difference in python. 3 styles you could code in python: old-fashioned procedural, functional like lisp, or modern OO. Thanks. > >
Re: Which Diff tool could I use for visually comparing two text files where Word Wrap is possible?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Which Diff tool could I use for visually comparing two text files where Word Wrap is possible? From: rhkra...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 09:07:47 -0400 Message-id: <[] 202304010907.47888.rhkra...@gmail.com> In-reply-to: <[] caeg4czus4dyt02pvm5byvrpxtxvdeybthfgwhrhi80upoy9...@mail.gmail.com> References: <[] caeg4czus4dyt02pvm5byvrpxtxvdeybthfgwhrhi80upoy9...@mail.gmail.com> On Friday, March 31, 2023 11:37:30 PM Susmita/Rajib wrote: [ ...] Thanks for the reply! I don't remember the name of the utility that I used to use in the Microsoft world, but it was very nice in showing changes within lines or paragraphs, using underline and crossout (wrong name) ... ... Aside: I'm not sure I can show crossout in an email, so will precede and end it with "-". ... The utility also showed a vertical line at the beginning of either a line or paragraph that had changed. ... I don't remember the name of the utility that I used to use in the Microsoft world, but it was very nice in showing changes within lines or paragraphs, using underline and crossout (wrong name). [ ... ] In your later reply you were helped by debian-u...@howorth.org.uk to have recalled the MS application called MS-Word. I had used it too till 2008. It was called "show/hide Corrections" that had to be activated from the Options menu. It would strike through (not underline) changed lines/words and mark the corrected parts in red. Best wishes, Rajib Etc.
Re: Which Diff tool could I use for visually comparing two text files where Word Wrap is possible?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Which Diff tool could I use for visually comparing two text files where Word Wrap is possible? From: davidson Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 10:54:06 + (UTC) Message-id: <[] alpine.deb.2.21.2304011044320.15...@azone.org> In-reply-to: <[] caeg4czvce+49-mkwgw7le3l1t6ztsak7jd3kchkevfgh303...@mail.gmail.com> References: <[] caeg4czus4dyt02pvm5byvrpxtxvdeybthfgwhrhi80upoy9...@mail.gmail.com> <[] CAEG4cZVrPz=aZN6C0V0J3EPYMrH=UGkWcbVCc8xY=31ff_p...@mail.gmail.com> <[] CAEG4cZUXaUAxG=0zlwpxuy44x9rtf7tnewvgfuddmzq7ile...@mail.gmail.com> <[] caeg4czvce+49-mkwgw7le3l1t6ztsak7jd3kchkevfgh303...@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 Susmita/Rajib wrote: [ ... ] You do not tell us what application you are using to view the file contents. If it is not a terminal application, it might well fail to independently implement for your delightful spectation the ECMA-48 set graphics control sequences. [ ... ] Sorry for replying late. It is the same lxterminal available with the live ISO as narrated earlier. Was it not apparent from my email? Best wishes, Rajib Etc.
Re: Re : Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Le 02/04/2023 à 15:23, benoit a écrit : [...] libexiv2-27: Installé : 0.27.5-3.1 Candidat : 0.27.5-3.1 Table de version : *** 0.27.5-3.1 100 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 500 500 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 Packages [...] Tu as résolu ton souci grâce à l'aide de Bernard donc je ne réponds que sur l'origine du problème: le fait que libexiv2-27 soit installé en version 0.27.5-3.1 et que celle-ci ne soit pas mentionnée dans un dépôt mais seulement en local (/var/lib/dpkg/status) suggère que soit tu as installé cette version (directement ou en tant que dépendance) depuis un dépôt (autre que Bullseye ou Bullseye-security) que tu as cessé d'utiliser depuis, soit que tu l'as installé (directement ou en tant que dépendance) depuis un paquet que tu as téléchargé (hors apt ou aptitude) pour l'installer localement. Dans ce genre de cas, les commandes: - apt policy nom_paquet (pour voir quelles sont les versions installées ou non et lesquelles sont dispo en local pou via les dépôts configurés) - apt rdepends nom_paquet (pour voir quels sont les paquets qui dépendent du paquet nom_paquet) - aptitude why nom_paquet (plus précis que apt rdepends, permet de voir pourquoi le paquet est installé, donc quel paquet parmi ceux listés par apt rdepends a installé le paquet nom_paquet en tant que dependance) ensuite on a généralement les éléments pour savoir quoi supprimer/purger, quoi installer, quoi reconfigurer, pour que tout rentre dans l'ordre :-)
Re : Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Bonjour Bernard, J'ai suivis pas à pas ce que tu indiques et ça a marché. :-) Un tout grand merci -- Benoit Le dimanche 2 avril 2023 à 14:07, Bernard Schoenacker a écrit : > Bonjour Benoit, > > Je suis en plein remue-méninges pour arriver à comprendre > quel est la saveur de ta distribution... Toutes mes excuses, c'est une bullseye amd64 > > En reprenant les bases (paquet) : > > https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-doc_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > > en ligne de commande : > > sudo dpkg-reconfigure --force libexiv2-27 > > sudo dpkg-reconfigure > > for i in libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64 > libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb ;do wget --progress=type -c -O > ~/Téléchargements/$i https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/$i ;done > > cd ~/Téléchargements/ > > sudo apt install -y ./libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > sudo apt install -y./libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > sudo apt install -y./libexiv2-doc_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb > > sudo apt-get -f install -y > > Merci d bien vouloir rendre compte sur la liste de l'avancement > > Bien à toi > Bernard
Re : Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Le dimanche 2 avril 2023 à 14:00, didier gaumet a écrit : > Bonjour, > > je pense que tu as un souci de conflit entre versions/provenances et un > $ apt policy libexiv* > devrait te/nous éclairer Oups, vraiment désolé : libexiv2-27: Installé : 0.27.5-3.1 Candidat : 0.27.5-3.1 Table de version : *** 0.27.5-3.1 100 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 500 500 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 Packages libexiv2-dev: Installé : (aucun) Candidat : 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 Table de version : 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 500 500 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 Packages libexiv2-doc: Installé : (aucun) Candidat : 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 Table de version : 0.27.3-3+deb11u1 500 500 https://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages 500 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 Packages
Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Bonjour Benoit, Je suis en plein remue-méninges pour arriver à comprendre quel est la saveur de ta distribution... En reprenant les bases (paquet) : https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/libexiv2-doc_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb en ligne de commande : sudo dpkg-reconfigure --force libexiv2-27 sudo dpkg-reconfigure for i in libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64 libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb ;do wget --progress=type -c -O ~/Téléchargements/$i https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/exiv2/$i ;done cd ~/Téléchargements/ sudo apt install -y ./libexiv2-27_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb sudo apt install -y./libexiv2-dev_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb sudo apt install -y./libexiv2-doc_0.27.3-3+deb11u1_amd64.deb sudo apt-get -f install -y Merci d bien vouloir rendre compte sur la liste de l'avancement Bien à toi Bernard
Re: Installation de libexiv2-dev
Bonjour, je pense que tu as un souci de conflit entre versions/provenances et un $ apt policy libexiv* devrait te/nous éclairer
Re: error: out of memory
Hola, No comento gaires vegades, peró uns errors com aquests em fan ser curiós, perquè son molt estranys, sembla com si la màquina fallés, Aquest error al instal.lar python far evident que els fitxers d'aquests paquets en el disc son corruptes, s'hauria de fer: rm -vf /var/cache/apt/archives/python* al resinstal.lar tornarà a descarregar els paquets Podría ser el disc dur, és lo més probable, hauries de fer algunes proves. L'última vegada vaig solucionar-ho canviant el disc mecànic per un SSD de 1TB. Va molt més depressa i no falla quasi mai. Salut, Jordi Pujol On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 12:54 PM Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura wrote: > > Bon dia de nou, > Algú més s'ha trobat amb el problema del python3.11 al fer un apt upgrade: > 2023-04-02 11:52:18 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt upgrade > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > S'està calculant l'actualització… Fet > S'instal·laran els paquets NOUS següents: > linux-headers-6.1.0-7-amd64 linux-headers-6.1.0-7-common > linux-image-6.1.0-7-amd64 > S'actualitzaran els paquets següents: > console-setup console-setup-linux fuse3 installation-report > keyboard-configuration libdebconfclient0 libfuse3-3 libpackagekitqt5-1 > linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86 linux-doc > linux-doc-6.1 linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 linux-kbuild-6.1 > linux-libc-dev xserver-common xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-legacy > 18 actualitzats, 3 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 0 no actualitzats. > S'ha d'obtenir 8.611 kB/137 MB d'arxius. > Després d'aquesta operació s'utilitzaran 570 MB d'espai en disc addicional. > Voleu continuar? [S/n] > Bai:1 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 fuse3 amd64 > 3.14.0-3 [35,8 kB] > Bai:2 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 libfuse3-3 amd64 > 3.14.0-3 [88,0 kB] > Bai:3 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 xserver-common > all 2:21.1.7-2 [2.381 kB] > Bai:4 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 > xserver-xorg-legacy amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [2.387 kB] > Bai:5 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 > xserver-xorg-core amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [3.719 kB] > S'ha baixat 8.611 kB en 2s (4.713 kB/s) > [master cf8db93] saving uncommitted changes in /etc prior to apt run > Author: xavier > 7 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 87 deletions(-) > delete mode 100644 NetworkManager/system-connections/Proton VPN > ES#27.nmconnection > delete mode 100644 > NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-ipv6leak-protection.nmconnection > delete mode 100644 > NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-killswitch.nmconnection > create mode 12 > "systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > create mode 100644 "systemd/system/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > create mode 12 > "systemd/system/snapd.mounts.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" > S'estan llegint els canvis... Fet > S'estan preconfigurant els paquets... > setting xserver-xorg-legacy/xwrapper/allowed_users from configuration file > dpkg: s'ha produït un error greu irrecuperable, s'esta interrompent: > el fitxer de la llista de fitxers del paquet «python3.11» conté un nom de > fitxer buit > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) > He provat les solucions habituals, > 2023-04-02 12:02:35 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt install -f > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > 0 actualitzats, 0 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 18 no actualitzats. > i res. També: > 2023-04-02 12:04:27 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a > Fe fet sudo apt -autoclean: > 2023-04-02 12:07:29 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt autoclean > S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet > S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet > S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet > > . > > Del libpython3.10-dbg 3.10.6-1 [13,8 MB] > Del python3-dbus 1.3.2-1 [109 kB] > Del python3-ibus-1.0 1.5.27-2 [277 kB] > Del python3-keyring 23.9.1-1 [55,6 kB] > Del python3-talloc 2.3.4-1 [17,7 kB] > Del python3-systemd 235-1 [39,5 kB] > Del python-jinja2-doc 3.0.3-2 [190 kB] > Del python3-dulwich 0.20.46-1 [322 kB] > Del python3-xdg 0.27-3 [38,8 kB] > Del python3-tk 3.10.7-1 [109 kB] > Del python3-gdal 3.5.2+dfsg-1 [938 kB] > Del python3-psutil 5.9.2-1 [189 kB] > Del python3-distutils 3.10.7-1 [141 kB] > Del python3-jinja2 3.0.3-2 [121 kB] > Del python3-gdbm 3.10.7-1 [19,1 kB] > Del python3-dbg 3.10.6-1 [1.228 B] > Del python3.10-dbg 3.10.6-1 [28,5 MB] > Del python3-lib2to3 3.10.7-1 [79,9 kB] > > (he esborrat les sortides que no mencionen el python) > > Per una altra banda, he mirat /var/lib/dpkg/status amb kate i he fet una > cerca de python3 per veure si hi veia alguna anomalia i no he vist res que em > permeti pensar que hi falta un nom de fitxer. Hi ha 1.083 ocurrències. No hi > he trobat cap indici de
Installation de libexiv2-dev
Bonjour à toutes et tous, Je n'arrives pas à installer libexiv2-dev Les paquets suivants contiennent des dépendances non satisfaites : libexiv2-dev : Dépend: libexiv2-27 (= 0.27.3-3+deb11u1) mais 0.27.5-3.1 devra être installé E: Impossible de corriger les problèmes, des paquets défectueux sont en mode « garder en l'état ». Que dois-je faire ? Merci d'avance -- Benoit
Re: error: out of memory
Bon dia de nou, Algú més s'ha trobat amb el problema del python3.11 al fer un apt upgrade: 2023-04-02 11:52:18 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt upgrade S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet S'està calculant l'actualització… Fet S'instal·laran els paquets NOUS següents: linux-headers-6.1.0-7-amd64 linux-headers-6.1.0-7-common linux-image-6.1.0-7-amd64 S'actualitzaran els paquets següents: console-setup console-setup-linux fuse3 installation-report keyboard-configuration libdebconfclient0 libfuse3-3 libpackagekitqt5-1 linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86 linux-doc linux-doc-6.1 linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 linux-kbuild-6.1 linux-libc-dev xserver-common xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-legacy 18 actualitzats, 3 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 0 no actualitzats. S'ha d'obtenir 8.611 kB/137 MB d'arxius. Després d'aquesta operació s'utilitzaran 570 MB d'espai en disc addicional. Voleu continuar? [S/n] Bai:1 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 fuse3 amd64 3.14.0-3 [35,8 kB] Bai:2 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 libfuse3-3 amd64 3.14.0-3 [88,0 kB] Bai:3 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 xserver-common all 2:21.1.7-2 [2.381 kB] Bai:4 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 xserver-xorg-legacy amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [2.387 kB] Bai:5 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 xserver-xorg-core amd64 2:21.1.7-2 [3.719 kB] S'ha baixat 8.611 kB en 2s (4.713 kB/s) [master cf8db93] saving uncommitted changes in /etc prior to apt run Author: xavier 7 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 87 deletions(-) delete mode 100644 NetworkManager/system-connections/Proton VPN ES#27.nmconnection delete mode 100644 NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-ipv6leak-protection.nmconnection delete mode 100644 NetworkManager/system-connections/pvpn-killswitch.nmconnection create mode 12 "systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" create mode 100644 "systemd/system/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" create mode 12 "systemd/system/snapd.mounts.target.wants/snap-gnome\\x2d3\\x2d38\\x2d2004-137.mount" S'estan llegint els canvis... Fet S'estan preconfigurant els paquets... setting xserver-xorg-legacy/xwrapper/allowed_users from configuration file dpkg: s'ha produït un error greu irrecuperable, s'esta interrompent: el fitxer de la llista de fitxers del paquet «python3.11» conté un nom de fitxer buit E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) He provat les solucions habituals, 2023-04-02 12:02:35 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt install -f S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet 0 actualitzats, 0 nous a instal·lar, 0 a suprimir i 18 no actualitzats. i res. També: 2023-04-02 12:04:27 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo dpkg --configure -a Fe fet sudo apt -autoclean: 2023-04-02 12:07:29 xavier@PC006:~$ sudo apt autoclean S'està llegint la llista de paquets… Fet S'està construint l'arbre de dependències… Fet S'està llegint la informació de l'estat… Fet . Del libpython3.10-dbg 3.10.6-1 [13,8 MB] Del python3-dbus 1.3.2-1 [109 kB] Del python3-ibus-1.0 1.5.27-2 [277 kB] Del python3-keyring 23.9.1-1 [55,6 kB] Del python3-talloc 2.3.4-1 [17,7 kB] Del python3-systemd 235-1 [39,5 kB] Del python-jinja2-doc 3.0.3-2 [190 kB] Del python3-dulwich 0.20.46-1 [322 kB] Del python3-xdg 0.27-3 [38,8 kB] Del python3-tk 3.10.7-1 [109 kB] Del python3-gdal 3.5.2+dfsg-1 [938 kB] Del python3-psutil 5.9.2-1 [189 kB] Del python3-distutils 3.10.7-1 [141 kB] Del python3-jinja2 3.0.3-2 [121 kB] Del python3-gdbm 3.10.7-1 [19,1 kB] Del python3-dbg 3.10.6-1 [1.228 B] Del python3.10-dbg 3.10.6-1 [28,5 MB] Del python3-lib2to3 3.10.7-1 [79,9 kB] (he esborrat les sortides que no mencionen el python) Per una altra banda, he mirat /var/lib/dpkg/status amb kate i he fet una cerca de python3 per veure si hi veia alguna anomalia i no he vist res que em permeti pensar que hi falta un nom de fitxer. Hi ha 1.083 ocurrències. No hi he trobat cap indici de l'error. He baixat de www.debian.org/distrib/packages el fitxer python3.11_3.11.2-6_amd64.deb i em dona el mateix error: 2023-04-02 12:39:53 xavier@PC006:~/Baixades/Linux/Python$ ls -ahl total 1,2M drwxr-xr-x 2 xavier xavier 4,0K 2023-04-02 12:39 . drwxr-xr-x 11 xavier xavier 4,0K 2023-03-31 15:00 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 xavier xavier 564K 2021-06-28 11:46 dbus-python-1.2.16.tar.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 xavier xavier 833 2021-06-28 11:47 dbus-python-1.2.16.tar.gz.asc -rw-r--r-- 1 xavier xavier 559K 2023-04-02 12:35 python3.11_3.11.2-6_amd64.deb 2023-04-02 12:39:57 xavier@PC006:~/Baixades/Linux/Python$ sudo dpkg -i ./python3.11_3.11.2-6_amd64.deb dpkg: s'ha produït un error greu irrecuperable, s'esta interrompent: el fitxer de la llista de fitxers del paquet «python3.11» conté un nom de fitxer buit o sigui que penso que és el propi paquet el que
Re: ssh -N en alleen maar ssh -N toestaan (succes)
On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 09:32:56PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: > Op 27-03-2023 om 23:22 schreef Geert Stappers: > > Op 26-03-2023 om 12:50 schreef Geert Stappers: > > > > > > Uit `man 1 ssh` > > > > > > -N Do not execute a remote command. > > > This is useful for just forward ports. > > > > > > Nu is `ssh -N` een client kant ding. > > > > > > Hoe aan server kant borgen dat alleen maar port forwarding gebeurd? > > > > > > Ik had gedacht om het dicht te timmeren door aan authorized_keys > > > op de server wat toe te voegen aan de regel met de pubkey voor > > > het account dat de `ssh -N` moet gaan doen. > > > > > > Er is "no-port-forwarding" > > > https://www.ssh.com/academy/ssh/authorized-keys-openssh#no-port-forwarding > > > maar niet iets als "only-port-forwarding" > > > > > > > kunnen oplossen door > > > > command="echo Don\'t do that" > > > > voor de pubkey in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys te zetten. Dat is aan server > > kant. > > > > Als ik `ssh -N -R :127.0.0.1:22 server` doe, krijg ik de gewenste > > portforward. Als ik iets zonder `-N` doe, komt er "Don't do that" terug. > > Waarom geen shell die alles weigert? Poortnummer van de gewenste port forward is langer dan 1025. Om dan de port open te krijgen is superuserprivilege nodig. Daar ga ik de shell niet van dichtzetten. > Groet, > Paul Groeten Geert Stappers -- Silence is hard to parse
Re: Hoe een Android device beter te mounten
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:12:20PM +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote: > Geert Stappers writes: > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 09:47:31AM +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote: > >> Als ik een Android via USB koppel, dan is deze via de command line > >> bereikbaar via: > >> /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=LENOVO_Lenovo_TB-8705F_HA141AZC/Internal\ > >> shared\ storage > >> > >> Als ik dan een mv probeer van mijn computer naar de Android, dan krijg > >> ik: > >> mv: preserving times for './file2move': Operation not supported > >> mv: preserving permissions for ‘./file2move’: Operation not supported > >> > >> $? bevat 0 en het bestand staat er ook, maar met de verkeerde tijd en > >> eventueel verkeerde permissies. > >> > >> Is er een manier om een Android zo te mounten dat de reguliere bestand > >> operaties wel zijn toegestaan? > > > > Het zou kunnen dat daar hl veel gevraagd wordt, maar ik kan het mis > > hebben. Vandaar dat ik graag de output van > > > > mount | grep VERDER_FILTER > > > > zou zien. "VERDER_FILTER" is dan iets dat alleen de android is. > > Het enige dat ik zie is: > gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse > (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000) Dat ziet er wel uit als output van `mount | grep VERDER_FILTER` 'type fuse.gvfsd-fuse' had ik niet verwacht, maar dat is mijn probleem. > Wat ik vreemd vind, want de Android 'schijven' zijn: > drwx-- 1 cecil cecil 0 Jan 1 1970 Internal shared storage > drwx-- 1 cecil cecil 0 Jan 1 1970 SD card > Ja, dat zou je niet verwachten. Ik ga afwachten wat het bericht elders in deze thread, Message-ID: <87tty0f9mw@munus.decebal.nl>, gaat brengen, i.p.v. uitleggen waarom "hl veel gevraagd" Groeten Geert Stappers -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law is the best known and most widely cited. They are part of his ideas in his extensive writings about the future. The laws are: 1 When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. 2 The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
M.I.T. is giving python's compiler some long overdue love which should speed it up considerably. -- Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. On Sun, 2 Apr 2023, Emanuel Berg wrote: > coreyh wrote: > > > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written > > by perl. > > And in C? > > > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? > > If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but > there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter a little > bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot. > > Most guys know one or two things really well and then enough > to get by everywhere else, so there's where I'd put Python and > Perl respectively, this day and age ... > >
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
coreyh wrote: > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written > by perl. And in C? > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? If you are looking for a career, Python is much bigger but there is a lot of shell scripts and for that matter a little bit of Perl don't harm, absolutely mot. Most guys know one or two things really well and then enough to get by everywhere else, so there's where I'd put Python and Perl respectively, this day and age ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
On Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 04:59:15PM +0800, cor...@free.fr wrote: > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl. > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? That depends. (Sorry: the answer is more or less as unspecific as the question( Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?
I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux? Thanks.
