Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github
Mark Allums writes: > The onus is not on me to provide reasons. I simply asked for more > info. You initially asked for reasons; reasons were given. You haven't responded to those, from what I can see, and AFAICT they answer the initial reuest adequately. As best I can tell, a reasonable person would either be satisfied with what was presented, or have specific responses to rebut them. You can ask for more information; but if you have no specific response to the information already provided that shows why it's not sufficient to convince you, I don't see that anyone has an onus to provide more. -- \ “Try to learn something about everything and everything about | `\ something.” —Thomas Henry Huxley | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github
Mark Allums writes: > On 5/17/19 2:28 AM, Dominik George wrote: > >> Please explain, in detail, why. > > https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html > > https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/ > > https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm > > I'm not convinced, Give me more. If the above articles don't convince you, what would convince you that has not already been said? I'm sure you can appreciate that some people have unreasonable demands for being convinced, and no amount of persuasion is enough. Can you give an example of what reasonable presentation would be needed to convince you on this matter? -- \“Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas | `\ are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.” | _o__) —Howard Aiken | Ben Finney
Re: Configure your PC to contribute to Debian community
Ian Jackson writes:
> Vipul writes ("Configure your PC to contribute to Debian community"):
> > Is there a way to get isolation for work & contribution purpose to
> > keep yourself organized? I can get isolation by using Docker image
> > or install one more copy of Debian in PC and switch between them but
> > that would be painful. I want to hear from contributors &
> > maintainers Which method they are using or prefer to get isolation?
>
> schroot is a utility to help you work with chroots.
> sbuild is the build tool.
>
> To make a chroot you can use sbuild-createchroot or, err, I forget
> what it's called, schroot-buildd-setup or something ? Maybe someone
> else will pop up with the answer.
The relatively new ‘sbuild-debian-developer-setup’ package installs a
command of the same name, which I found significantly simplifies setting
up a sufficiently-isolated standard Debian package build environment.
--
\ “Do unto others twenty-five percent better than you expect them |
`\ to do unto you. (The twenty-five percent is [to correct] for |
_o__) error.)” —Linus Pauling's Golden Rule |
Ben Finney
Re: System warning that "/var" is almost full
Esteban L writes: > >From command line: /var# du -h --max-depth=1 > 1.8G ./lib > 4.0K ./local > 2.7M ./tmp > 16K ./lost+found > 44K ./snap > 6.3G ./cache > 4.0K ./opt > 56K ./spool > 4.0K ./mail > 8.2M ./backups > 139M ./log > 8.2G . > > So, my backups seems to be causing the main issue, followed closely by > the cache. I don't know whether you have different output, but by my reading, ‘backups’ (8.2MiB) is significantly smaller than ‘lib’ (1.8GiB) which is smaller again than ‘cache’ (6.3GiB). You can see them sorted by size with: $ du --max-depth=1 /var | sort --numeric-sort The ‘-h’ (‘--human-readable’) is useful as its name implies; but it has the disadvantage of being difficult to visually compare between lines. Better to use absolute numbers if you want to compare accurately. -- \ “'Tis strange, — but true; for truth is always strange; / | `\Stranger than fiction.” —“Lord” George Gordon Noel Byron, _Don | _o__) Juan_ | Ben Finney
Emacs without knowing any Lisp (was: text editors)
deloptes writes: > I've been there exactly 17y ago. I still have no idea where lisp is used > except in Emacs and some exotic projects, so being pragmatic ... good for > you who know emacs - for the rest good that you do not know emacs. I've been a happy and productive Emacs user for more than 17 years and still don't edit any Lisp. It just isn't necessary to get things done. (I hear the Atom text editor is implemented in JavaScript; that doesn't imply JavaScript knowledge is needed to use Atom.) With that knowledge, hopefully more people can explore using Emacs https://tuhdo.github.io/emacs-tutor.html>. -- \ “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not | `\ you believe in it.” —Neil deGrasse Tyson, 2011-02-04 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: text editors
mick crane writes: > Is there any text editor, preferably in a terminal that has the > facility to protect lines in the document, not the document itself ? If by “protect” you mean “prevent editing these lines but not others”, no I think that's not a feature of any editor I know. You can achieve some protection by temporarily *hiding* lines you're not wanting to edit. Vim has “folding” (hiding a set of lines). Emacs has “narrow&"9 to see nothing *but* a specific range of lines. > I've got 2 blocks of "code" that look similar and I keep editing the > wrong one and then it doesn't work. I would use Emacs “narrow” commands for that; quickly narrow the focus of the editor to only show me the area I'm meaning to edit, then easily widen the range when I need to. -- \ “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | `\ unintelligible propositions.” —Thomas Jefferson, 1816-07-30 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Recover deleted files on LVM volume
Hans writes: > Maybe "scalpel" or "foremost" may help. I will try ‘scalpel’ soon. The ‘foremost’ documentation leads me to believe it wants to dump a whole lot of stuff somewhere. I don't want that (the files should be restorable in-place, if at all; that's what ‘testdisk’ did the last time I used it successfully). -- \ “Try to learn something about everything and everything about | `\ something.” —Thomas Henry Huxley | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Recover deleted files on LVM volume
Reco writes: > But you don't need "testdisk", you need "photorec". Which Debian package do I install for that? $ aptitude search photorec $ echo $? 1 -- \ “I have a map of the United States; it's actual size. It says | `\‘1 mile equals 1 mile’. Last summer, I folded it.” —Steven | _o__) Wright | Ben Finney
Recover deleted files on LVM volume
Howdy all, How can I recover files deleted on a ext4 volume, in a logical (LVM) volume? I accidentally deleted a tree of directories and files, after completing a move of those files from elsewhere :-( In the past I have successfully used ‘testdisk’ to discover and recover deleted files. However when I try now, the tool apparently gets confused that there's no partition table. The “Advanced” menu item normally leads to a filesystem browser of deleted files. On this (still quite happily working) LVM volume though, ‘testdisk’ complains that it can't find any partitions. Should I be using ‘testdisk’ in a different way because this is an LVM logical volume? Should I be using some other tool to recover a tree of deleted files? -- \“The right to search for truth implies also a duty; one must | `\ not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true.” | _o__) —Albert Einstein | Ben Finney
NetworkManager with VPN for internet, not local LAN
Howdy all, How can I convince NetworkManager that a specific VPN is to be used only for traffic outside the local network, whatever that local network happens to be? I have an external VPN service that I use to avoid surveillance and censorship, both within organisations (like an employer or a café) and within my home country that mandates our ISPs spy on their behalf. So when I'm connecting to the various networks my notebook computer finds itself in, I want to connect to that VPN and have all internet traffic go through that VPN. Simultaneously, any addresses on the local LAN should *not* be routed through that VPN, because those local addresses are not routed outside the local network. What do I need to do in the NetworkManager VPN configuration, to ensure that when I've enabled that VPN it will apply to internet addresses but not local non-routable LAN addresses? Bear in mind that those LAN addresses can change dynamically as I move the computer to a different network, yet the VPN configuration should remain the same. -- \“You don't change the world by placidly finding your bliss — | `\you do it by focusing your discontent in productive ways.” | _o__) —Paul Z. Myers, 2011-08-31 | Ben Finney
GnuBee: freedom-respecting Network Attached Storage (was: Please Recommend Affordable and Reliable Cloud Storage for 50 TB of Data)
Andy Smith writes: > If all you require is access to your data when you are out and about, > and you do currently have always-on Internet at home, you could build > a cheap server, attach your existing USB storage to it, and serve it > with owncloud or something. This sometimes goes by the (IMO stupidly misleading) name of “personal cloud”, but “cloud” is a useless word for all of this. It's simply an always-on server for file storage and maybe some other services. When the primary purpose is network-attached file storage, as the original poster is requesting, the term to search for is Network Attached Storage (NAS). In other words, it's what used to be quite normal for many people, before the internet was centralised :-) and is a great step to re-decentralising the net [0]. One downside is, as pointed out earlier, you must (yourself, or convince someone else to) take on the job of system administrator for your network. There is a good free-software-respecting hardware solution for building a bare-bones server for running at a home or small office, the GnuBee https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/>. It runs a full-blown GNU+Linux operating system under your full control, so you could set it up to also run services along the line of nextCloud or the like. [0] https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/06/28/how-to-fix-what-has-gone-wrong-with-the-internet> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/tim-berners-lee-reclaim-the-web> -- \ “Every valuable human being must be a radical and a rebel, for | `\ what he must aim at is to make things better than they are.” | _o__) —Niels Bohr | Ben Finney
Using a VPN to bypass surveillance and censorship (was: how to find out video memory size?)
Long Wind writes: > google is blocked in china, and i can't use it to find answer It appears DuckDuckGo (a much more freedom-respecting search engine) is also blocked in China. This article discusses using a VPN to bypass surveillance and censorship https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/duckduckgo/>. -- \ “Natural catastrophes are rare, but they come often enough. We | `\ need not force the hand of nature.” —Carl Sagan, _Cosmos_, 1980 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: How to file a proper bug report
t.j.duch...@gmail.com writes: > I spend most of my time working on Windows, so debugging Linux will be > something new. Thanks for helping me on that! If you don't mind, > I'll post back on what I find so I can do this the right way. You're welcome here to ask about using Debian, especially since you already have a motivation to help the Debian Project make it better :-) -- \ “Speech is human, silence is divine, yet also brutish and dead: | `\ therefore we must learn both arts.” —Thomas Carlyle, 1830 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: How to file a proper bug report
t.j.duch...@gmail.com writes: > I have a user question on how to file a proper Debian bug report under > certain circumstances. Thank you for taking the care to find out what information is needed for a good bug report. Your specific use cases seem to involve non-free software (Steam games are, I assume, non-free in general, though there may be some exceptions) so that makes it particularly difficult to diagnose problems. If there are reproducible behaviours, it can be helpful to run the program under ‘strace’ and reproduce the behaviour, to get an extremely verbose log of system calls being made at the time when the behaviour occurs. When that is reproducible, it might be helpful to have two separate ‘strace’ log outputs: one from the environment where you don't get the buggy behaviour, one where you do. -- \ “If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we | `\ despise, we don't believe in it at all.” —Noam Chomsky, | _o__) 1992-11-25 | Ben Finney
Re: Can a recipients rights under GNU GPL be revoked?
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: > […] I believe that the original author of a package could do something > like create further modifications to the code and create a non-free > version of the code. Yes. The _Copyleft and the GNU General Public License_ guide https://copyleft.org/guide/> addresses that possibility: The GPL is irrevocable in the sense that once a copyright holder grants rights for someone to copy, modify and redistribute the software under terms of the GPL, they cannot later revoke that grant. Since the GPL has no provision allowing the copyright holder to take such a prerogative, the license is granted as long as the copyright remains in effect. The copyright holders have the right to relicense the same work under different licenses […], or to stop distributing the GPLv2’d version (assuming GPLv2 §3(b) was never used), but they may not revoke the rights under GPLv2 already granted. In fact, when an entity loses their right to copy, modify and distribute GPL’d software, it is because of their *own actions*, not that of the copyright holder. The copyright holder does not decide when GPLv2 §4 termination occurs (if ever); rather, the actions of the licensee determine that. https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech8.html#x11-510007.1> So, the copyright holders can make new releases without granting GPL freedoms. But they have no way to revoke the GPL freedoms already granted to a person in a specific past release of the work. -- \“Fascism is capitalism plus murder.” —Upton Sinclair | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Can a recipients rights under GNU GPL be revoked?
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: > […] I believe that the original author of a package could do something > like create further modifications to the code and create a non-free > version of the code. Yes. The _Copyleft and the GNU General Public License_ guide https://copyleft.org/guide/> addresses that possibility: The GPL is irrevocable in the sense that once a copyright holder grants rights for someone to copy, modify and redistribute the software under terms of the GPL, they cannot later revoke that grant. Since the GPL has no provision allowing the copyright holder to take such a prerogative, the license is granted as long as the copyright remains in effect. The copyright holders have the right to relicense the same work under different licenses […], or to stop distributing the GPLv2’d version (assuming GPLv2 §3(b) was never used), but they may not revoke the rights under GPLv2 already granted. In fact, when an entity loses their right to copy, modify and distribute GPL’d software, it is because of their *own actions*, not that of the copyright holder. The copyright holder does not decide when GPLv2 §4 termination occurs (if ever); rather, the actions of the licensee determine that. https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech8.html#x11-510007.1> So, the copyright holder can make new releases without granting GPL freedoms. But they have no way to revoke the GPL freedoms already granted to a person in a specific past release of the work. -- \“Fascism is capitalism plus murder.” —Upton Sinclair | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Can a recipients rights under GNU GPL be revoked?
Howdy all, Recently in this forum, some concerns have been raised about works covered by GNU GPL. In particular, whether a recipient of a work, received under conditions of the GNU GPL, can have the freedoms of the GNU GPL later withdrawn in that same work. To reassure those who might worry whether they can reply on the freedom granted in a work, it is worth reading the GNU FAQ document for the GNU GPL at the Free Software Foundation: [For any GNU GPL-licensed work,] the public already has the right to use the program under the GPL, and this right cannot be withdrawn. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#CanDeveloperThirdParty> The same answer is in the FAQ specifically for the GNU GPL version 2.0 https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#CanDeveloperThirdParty>. You can read more in the Software Freedom Conservancy's document _Copyleft and the GNU General Public License: A Comprehensive Tutorial and Guide_, specifically in §7.4 “GPLv2 Irrevocability”. That concludes: Whether as a matter of a straightforward contractual obligation, or as a matter of promissory estoppel, a contributor’s attempt to revoke a copyright license grant and then enforce their copyright against a user is highly unlikely to succeed. https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech8.html#x11-540007.4> In other words: Any copyright holder can *say* they wish to retroactively revoke the GNU GPL to some party. However, unless that party has violated the conditions of the GNU GPL grant they originally received, there does not appear to be any enforcible threat of revocation that would succeed. I hope these, along with the many court cases world-wide that have tested the GNU GPL and found it to be enforcible, can reassure those considering whether a particular copyright holder's whim can revoke the freedoms guaranteed in a GNU GPL-covered work. I'd say there's nothing to worry about from those threats. -- \ “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them | `\to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their | _o__) own desires.” —Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 | Ben Finney
Re: ot: of a sort, alternative news collection sources?
Karen Lewellen writes: > If not, does anyone know of an alternative source that provides a > collection of news stories from various outlets in one place? Does collaboratively-edited publishing meet the need? Anyone can contribute, and articles are written collaboratively for a global audience. We strive at all times to meet the policy of writing and reporting from a neutral point of view, ensuring our reporting is as fair as possible. Furthermore, everything we write is cited, to maintain the highest standards of reliability. https://www.wikinews.org/> -- \ “As I bit into the nectarine, it had a crisp juiciness about it | `\ that was very pleasurable — until I realized it wasn't a | _o__) nectarine at all, but A HUMAN HEAD!!” —Jack Handey | Ben Finney
Re: do you find old firefox is better than new one?
Long Wind writes: > i have 52.9.0 and 45.9.0, both for stretch > new one often becomes unresponsive, Which one of “52.9.0” and “45.9.0” is the “new one”? Or do you mean some other version? Have you tried versions later than “52”? Debian Buster now has ‘firefox-esr’ version “60.4.0esr-1”. How does that change the behaviour for you? > and i have to close it and restart it This happened for me quite often, because many of the Firefox extensions were not compatible with Firefox 60. So, some of the extensions which formerly blocked garbage from many internet sites – malware like advertising and trackers – resumed when I visited sites, so many of my tabs would contain malware that quickly crippled the performance of the browser. After installing newer, compatible extensions (NoScript 10, uMatrix, uBlock Origin) and restarting the browser, that malware ceased, and my browser is now happily fast again. > i can't describe it in more details or reproduce problem If you can answer some of the questions above, that might help us understand better the behaviour you are describing. -- \ “For your convenience we recommend courteous, efficient | `\self-service.” —supermarket, Hong Kong | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: basilisk-browser
Dominik George writes: > >> > [1] https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86 > > Seriously? They forbid linking against libraries if their code is not > shipped with their sources? They don't forbid that. What they forbid is redistributing the modified work with the Pale Moon branding. http://www.palemoon.org/redist.shtml> > That also seems like a security nightmare in the making. > Mozilla themselves weren't even *that* ridiculous, were they? It is true that the Pale Moon trademark policy is more restrictive than what occurred with the Firefox trademark restrictions. -- \ “The best is the enemy of the good.” —Voltaire, _Dictionnaire | `\Philosophique_ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: basilisk-browser
Doug writes: > On 10/18/2018 04:49 AM, Reco wrote: > > Palemoon means extremely hostile upstream - [1]. > > > > [1] https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86 > > > I would like to know what you mean by "extremely hostile upstream" Reco anticipated your wish to know, and provided a concrete example of the hostility. Did you read the discussion at that URL? -- \“[T]he great menace to progress is not ignorance but the | `\ illusion of knowledge.” —Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, | _o__) 1914–2004 | Ben Finney
Re: No KODI for buster?
A_Man_Without_Clue writes: > I was going to build media playing station but the project needs be > postponed due to financial problem so it is ok for now For what it's worth, my current HTPC is running Debian Buster, with the Debian-packaged Kodi; I built it earlier this year (evidently before the packages were removed from Buster). Pretty happy with it. So when the current release-critical bugs are resolved, I am confident you'll have a good straightforward set-up. Feel free to come and discuss it again here when you get to doing that. -- \ “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O | `\ Lord, make my enemies ridiculous!’ And God granted it.” | _o__)—Voltaire | Ben Finney
Re: No KODI for buster?
Man_without_clue writes: > Well, since then [2017-11-13] nearly one year has passed. In that same period, many things have happened to the Debian 'kodi' package https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kodi/news/> including that it entered "testing" and then was later removed. You can read each news item at the above URL to find out more. -- \ “To label any subject unsuitable for comedy is to admit | `\ defeat.” —Peter Sellers | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: (OT) Top Posting (was Re: Gimp Babl too old)
Kenneth Parker writes: > I have a special issue: Using Gmail on a Phone or Tablet (I have > both). Both of those devices lack a proper keyboard. That makes them unsuitable for composing anything but very short messages, and wholly unsuitable for editing text. > Seriously, how do others of you deal with navigating this Debian List > on Android, while being a "Good Netizen"? I deal with it by never composing or editing messages without a proper keyboard. Handheld, full-touchscreen devices are fine as reading devices, and maybe for very limited gross-control input, but it's a mistake to try to use them as text editing devices until you connect a real keyboard. -- \ “I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I | `\ am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I | _o__) meant.” —Robert J. McCloskey | Ben Finney
Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists
Francesco Porro writes: > Sorry, I forgot to mention that I dont't want to run a mail server by > myself. > > Only *free* mail services, please. In that case, I recommend against all such services. The cost of running a mail server that anyone can join for no fee, practically requires that the operators must make lots of money exploiting the email users. So your options are: * Pay for the valuable service of running an email system, with you as the customer, and with a direct interest in not screwing you over. * Find someone you trust to never screw you over (maybe this is yourself), and get that person to put in lots of time and expertise operating a mail system indefinitely for you. * Use a zero-fee email service that is practically guaranteed to exploit its users in many ways. I strongly recommend against the third option. -- \ “I got an answering machine for my phone. Now when someone | `\ calls me up and I'm not home, they get a recording of a busy | _o__) signal.” —Steven Wright | Ben Finney
Re: manuals
mick crane writes: > Is it OK if I wget the webpages from > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ ? > to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ? Yes, it's okay for you to download them. Most of them you don't need to, because there is a more convenient way. Many of the manuals are in Debian as packages to install; browse the “doc” section in Aptitude (or your favourite package manager interface) to discover many documentation packages to install. -- \ “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not | `\entitled to their own facts.” —US Senator Pat Moynihan | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: mailing list vs "the futur"
tech writes: > Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something > more modern like a bugzilla or else ??? It's 2018. Shouldn't we move away from an old “keyboard” to something mroe modern like a data-glove? Less sarcastically: You have said nothing that demonstrates why a mailing list is not fit for the purpose. Merely because some things are newer does not make those things better. To argue for replacing an established system that works fine today, you have to actually demonstrate how it fails, and demonstrate how that failure is sufficiently bad for it to be replaced. Otherwise it stays, by default. -- \“I was in Las Vegas, at the roulette table, having a furious | `\ argument over what I considered to be an odd number.” —Steven | _o__) Wright | Ben Finney
Re: Any VPS recommendations?
Hubert Hauser writes: > My requirements: Some questions: > - accept anonymous proxies, Tor relays, onions and optionally Tor > exits, What do you mean by “accept” those things? Do you mean, the terms of service allow you to make your VPS do those functions? Do you mean, the terms of service allow you to access the VPS from an anomymous proxy / Tor relay / etc., from another machine? Do you mean something different from those? > - accept Bitcoins and optionally other cryptocurrencies, I assume this means “accept [cryptocurrency] as payment for the service”. > - very good support 24/7. Do you require the ability to contact the support service via email? Some other contact method (which)? > Please don't recommend VPS-es located in Russia, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, > Iraq, Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom or United States. What is the relevant criterion that is common to those, and absent for other countries? -- \ “The double standard that exempts religious activities from | `\ almost all standards of accountability should be dismantled | _o__) once and for all.” —Daniel Dennett, 2010-01-12 | Ben Finney
Re: Loan companies
Matthew Crews writes: > You might try the debian-legal list No, these questions are not appropriate on that forum (the summary of that forum is “Copyright, licensing and patent issues”, as you can see from the forum's website). Please be careful which forum you direct discussions to! -- \ “We jealously reserve the right to be mistaken in our view of | `\ what exists, given that theories often change under pressure | _o__) from further investigation.” —Thomas W. Clark, 2009 | Ben Finney
Re: Regarding Installation over Windows 10
Vijay Sehgal writes: > I want to install Linux on my machine. Welcome! Thank you for choosing to install Debian. > Can anyone guide me via walkthrough to how to do that? The installation guide is at https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual>, you can choose one for your language. > What is the use of other 2 iso files of nearly same size? Different architectures are incompatible; they need separate installation programs. You will need to choose the right one (and choose the corresponding Debian installation manual). You will need to know the “architecture” of your machine; this is a term roughly meaning “what is the CPU in the machine”. For a machine on which you are running MS Windows, the architecture is almost certainly “64-bit PC (amd64)”. -- \ “Anyone who puts a small gloss on [a] fundamental technology, | `\ calls it proprietary, and then tries to keep others from | _o__) building on it, is a thief.” —Tim O'Reilly, 2000-01-25 | Ben Finney
Re: VPN suggestions?
Dennis Wicks writes: > I want to set up a VPN for several computers in my house that are all > on a local network. What do you mean by “set up a VPN”? Is it sufficient to pay someone else to host the VPN, and your computers connect to that VPN managed by someone else? Do you expect to manage the VPN software? The hardware? Or do you want that job done by someone else? > And suggestions, hints, warnings? Be sure that the VPN is run by someone invested in *your* security. This excludes parties that offer “zero cost VPN” to all-comers; their incentive is mostly to turn your traffic into money, which almost certainly conflicts with your privacy. So, that means either you (or a party who already has your trust and has no conflict with your interests) set up the VPN specifically for you; or, you find a managed VPN for whom *you are the customer*, so that they will want to serve your needs and not someone else's. Once you explain more what your purpose is (and what you mean by “set up a VPN”), we can give more specific advice. -- \ “One of the most important things you learn from the internet | `\ is that there is no ‘them’ out there. It's just an awful lot of | _o__)‘us’.” —Douglas Adams | Ben Finney
Re: Expired GPG keys of older release
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: > On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 10:25:25 PM Ben Finney wrote: > > In other words: Yes, it's inconvenient, but it's because *no one can > > know* with confidence any more whether that key has been compromised. > > Well, I should study up more on keys and expiration, but isn't the > situation much the same before the key expires? I mean, the issuer / > owner of the key really doesn't know whether the key has been > compromised? The difference is in the degree of confidence that can be expected. When the key was created, the key's creator thereby expressed the upper bound of duration for that confidence remaining acceptably high. -- \ “Say what you will about the Ten Commandments, you must always | `\ come back to the pleasant fact that there are only ten of | _o__) them.” —Henry L. Mencken | Ben Finney
Re: Expired GPG keys of older release
Adam Cecile writes: > I still thinks it *sucks* to have no alternative then considering > packages signed by an expired key like unsigned packages The key is expired, which means its creator no longer claims it as their key. Any signatures found using that key, can no longer be known to be made by the person who nominally owns that key. In other words: Yes, it's inconvenient, but it's because *no one can know* with confidence any more whether that key has been compromised. So that does put it into the same category as “who the hell knows whether this signature is associated with the key owner”. That's just a fact that follows from the finite lifetime of the security of a given key. The longer it's been out there, the larger the window for compromise; and we're now outside the window where the key owner warrants to still be in control of that key. Don't trust whatever signatures you find with that key any more. -- \ “I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.” | `\ —Groucho Marx | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: why gdb-doc is in non-free ??!
Alexander Villalba <alexvillalb...@gmail.com> writes: > why gdb-doc is in non-free ??!: Because the GNU FDL does not grant the freedoms necessary for free software. > gdb-doc is also GNU The ‘gdb-doc’ work is released by the Free Software Foundation, and they intend it to be part of the GNU operating system. But, confusingly, the FSF do not consider that work to be free software (because they make an arbitrary and ill-defined distinction between documentation and software). <URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License#Criticism> For a work to be included in Debian, this distinction is irrelevant: the work must satisfy the Debian Free Software Guidelines. Because the license restrictions do not grant the freedoms promised in the Debian Free Software Guidelines, the ‘gdb-doc’ work cannot be in Debian. -- \ “Every valuable human being must be a radical and a rebel, for | `\ what he must aim at is to make things better than they are.” | _o__) —Niels Bohr | Ben Finney
Re: Correct: System Thinks Hardware Clock is UTC
Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> writes: > I could use hwclock --set --date= with the --localtime > option, etc., to correct this but is there an easier way? There is only one clock involved in this: the hardware clock. By telling the operating system that your hardware clock is set to UTC, you have told the operating system how to *render* the hardware clock's time for your local time zone. Setting the clock will set the hardware clock. By using a “set the clock” tool, you will set the hardware clock — but the clock-setting tool will take care of converting the time zone correctly. I think the generally-applicable advice is correct: tell the OS that your clock is set to UTC, and leave it to the operating system to figure out the weirdness of time zones. So I think you've done the right thing: tell the OS to keep the hardware clock at UTC. Now you just need to tell it what the time is :-) Assuming your machine is internet-connected, tell the operating system to keep your hardware clock in sync with the Network Time Protocol, by installing an NTP server. I can't recall what the default is; I use the ‘chrony’ package. -- \ “If you do not trust the source do not use this program.” | `\—Microsoft Vista security dialogue | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: which program do you recommend to read pdf file
Long Wind <longwi...@yahoo.com> writes: > but my acrobat reader in stretch is painfully slow in displaying them Acrobat Reader is non-free software, which means the GNU+Linux community cannot do anything to improve that software. What's more, even Adobe is no longer supporting that program on GNU+Linux <URL:https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2273757>. So whatever problems it has, will likely remain and get worse over time. So I am not too surprised that it performs badly :-) > which program can you recommend? Thanks! The catalogue at <URL:https://pdfreaders.org/> can be useful. The Evince viewer <URL:https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evince> is clean and nice to use, and in the GNOME desktop environment, Evince is the default Document Viewer program for PDF and many other formats. You can start with that; I have never needed anything else for PDF since I started using Evince :-) -- \ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does | `\ knowledge.” —Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: A Major Success Story, Using Debian 9.4
Kenneth Parker <sea7k...@gmail.com> writes: > Isn't this what this is all about? I now have a happy Debian user, who > was previously a marginalized Mac user, down on his luck, and unable > to afford the expensive new Macs! > > Now, he is up to date, and able to use Firefox, LibreOffice, and other > Debian Packages, while also able to Dual Boot, back to OSX Lion, when > he needs to. How's that for Volunteer work? Excellent work, and a great result. Thanks for reporting it to us! -- \ “Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a | `\ computer. Art is everything else we do.” —Donald Knuth, 1996 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Debian for wide-world, yes we can!
MENGUAL Jean-Philippe <mengualjean...@free.fr> writes: > Hypra developed […] a service to provide a free software based > computer, as nice as typical PCs, with a better uman support (better > privacy, including search engine, etc) > - 200 blind and old people now use Debian GNU/Linux, Libreoffice and > Firefox thanks to our system and human support. That is a great service, thank you for maintaining it! > Three years later, I am afraid with two things. 1. Most free software > companies drop the desktop. It has consequences on privacy, and usae of > computers with a low Internet connection. This is not special to free-software companies. The desktop platforms are in sharp decline generally, as most software is provided either as Service as a Software Substitute, which strips autonomy from users <URL:https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html>, or mobile apps, where the computing platform is tightly controlled by the monopolists (Apple, Google, Amazon) instead of the user community. > Free software has not yet had success due to lack of human support > with the free software based products. Yes, free software certainly has gone backward in mind share, because the desktop platform shrank in importance and we do not yet have a decent foothold on the mobile and SaaSS platforms. The gains from the 1980s and 1990s need to be won all over again, and this time the monopolists are more prepared :-/ <URL:https://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-TheHardwareWarsAndTheFutureOfFreeSoftware> > 2. Free software has less and less forces for accessibility and > universal design. Only 5 persons work on the accessibility stac. Kudos to those who do, and I agree with your implication that more people need to work on accessibility in free software. > Thanks in advance to anyone supporting tis initiative. Thank you for raising attention to this, and viva Hypra! -- \ “Those who write software only for pay should go hurt some | `\ other field.” —Erik Naggum, in _gnu.misc.discuss_ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Chaniging focus: security ouitside a password manager
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: >* during copy and paste operations, the plaintext password could > remain on the C "stack". thus making it vulnurable: Some notes: > > (1) I've read about at least one password manager that, somehow, > deletes the plaintext password from the copy and paste "stack" after a > time delay--I didn't make a note of which one that was. Yes, the Password Store tools do this (actively delete the content from the clipboard, after a configurable timeout). > (2) another approach could be that a password manager provides a > facility to write the password to a designated textbox […] Another common approach, similar to that, is to have a web browser plug-in which reads the same database. Thanks to WebExt support in both Chromium and Firefox, we have the Browserpass <URL:https://dannyvankooten.com/chrome-extension-for-pass/> extension that allows using credentials directly from a Password Store database. > Maybe my concern about these situations is unrealistic, but I want to > consider it, so all comments are welcome. I think you should move to the above model (tools like Password Store that actively work to get the credentials out of the clipboard quickly) as an immediate improvement first, and see how well that satisfies. -- \ “Don't be afraid of missing opportunities. Behind every failure | `\ is an opportunity somebody wishes they had missed.” —Jane | _o__) Wagner, via Lily Tomlin | Ben Finney
Re: Password Manager opinions and recommendations
likcoras <likco...@riseup.net> writes: > I think pass (https://www.passwordstore.org/) meets most of your > requirements. It's a glorified shell script that calls gpg under the > hood to create passwords that are stored locally (under > ~/.password-store). I concur with the recommendation for Password Store, in this case. (that link again, <URL:https://www.passwordstore.org/>). Someone who has been manually handling their password database should be right at home with the Password Store system. > - It does not have a network component. Password Store uses Git to store the entries, and Git natively allows distribution of the repository via SSH or HTTPS (and others, of course). > - You can transfer individual password files, decrypt them yourself > with gpg, etc. This is very important! Our password data is too crucial to be locked into a custom data format needing a specific tool. Password Store avoids this by using only standard, general-purpose tools. > - Very straightforward to decrypt with a simple shell script. > - Uses pwgen to generate passwords, if requested. You can customize > generation a bit (no special characters, etc.) For more useful passphrases I can recommend Diceware or ‘xkcdpass’ <URL:https://pypi.python.org/pypi/xkcdpass>. That's a separate tool though, Password Store does not yet integrate with it. > - It does not handle automatic password updates. True. This could be implemented in a custom client though. Which raises another advantage of Password Store: it is a description of a password manager *without* specifying the client. There are many clients that work with this system, as can be seen at the website. <URL:https://www.passwordstore.org/#other> So I use the ‘pass’ command-line client on some machines, QtPass desktop client on others, and the Android app (available from the F-Droid app store <URL:https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=com.zeapo.pwdstore>) to carry them with me. -- \ “Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without | `\ having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it | _o__) too?” —Douglas Adams | Ben Finney
Federated, decentralised communication on the internet (was: domain names, was: hostname)
David Wright <deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes: > I don't understand why a home user would not be using a smarthost. > Perhaps we're talking about a different group of people. Why would a > home user want to relay mail rather than submit it to a smarthost? First, note that even if you don't know the reason why someone would want to run their own mail server on their own connection, that is no argument to arbitrarily deny them the ability to do it. So, while you're well within your rights to be curious about why, the question doesn't demand an answer. Whoever wants to run a mail server on their home connection should by default have the right to do so, for any reason or no reason, and doesn't need to explain why to anyone. As it happens, there are excellent reasons to want to do this. They are no less strong now than when doing this was much more common in the 1990s and earlier: in order to retain decentralised control, distributed throughout the community, of a decentralised and federated communication system. The news for the past decade (and more) has given frequent reminder of why it's important to wrest control of our communications out of the hugh, centralised choke-points that currently reign. That by itself is reason enough to support and encourage more people running mail servers independent of those entities. The person in question may have additioonal reasons, or separate reasons. The point is that email is *designed* and *works best* as a decentralised, federated system. We should be asking not “why would anyone do this?”, but rather “why have we gone so far in relinquishing the ability to do this?”. And then take active steps to move more toward federated, decentralised communication again. -- \“With Lisp or Forth, a master programmer has unlimited power | `\ and expressiveness. With Python, even a regular guy can reach | _o__) for the stars.” —Raymond Hettinger | Ben Finney
Reply to sender, Reply to list (was: policy around 'wontfix' bug tag)
Richard Hector <rich...@walnut.gen.nz> writes: > On 06/02/18 02:11, Vincent Lefevre wrote: > > On 2018-02-05 01:53:02 +1300, Richard Hector wrote: > > You should set up a "Mail-Followup-To:" for that. For reference, this refers to one of two proposed (but never standardised) fields “Mail-Followup-To” and “Mail-Reply-To” <URL:https://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html>. > I could do that, I'm sure (though I'm not sure how) - but I'd rather > that someone intending to send me a private reply didn't send it to the > list by mistake. Having to (in my case) click 'Reply to List' helps me > not send to the list by mistake. That's correct. The recipient isn't in a position to guess the intention of the person composing the message; the responsibility is on the person composing the reply, to choose “reply to sender” or “reply to list”. If you, when composing a reply, mean to reply to the sender, use that command in your mail client. It will go to the “Reply-To” address, or (if that's not present) the sender address. If you, when composing a reply, mean to reply to the mailing list, use that command in your mail client. It will go to the declared mailing list address (either that, or your mail client is broken for not recognising the mailing list address in every mailing list message). > > This is entirely your problem. > > The behaviour and policy of this list, when followed, does what I > want. Right. In particular the current list behaviour – don't alter or set Reply-To – and Richard's messages – absence of any custom field “Mail-Followup-To” or “Mail-Reply-To” – leaves the default behaviour, and the default behaviour is what Richard wants. There is often a call for changing the mailing list program so that it manipulates the header fields for redirecting replies to sender. This is simply a mistake, as explained in several places, e.g. <URL:http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-still-harmful.html>. I didn't see anyone so far call for that alteration, but it pops up in these discussion too often so the above document bears repeating. As I understand it from this thread, Richard (and I, for what it's worth) do not want to alter the default behaviour of either “reply to sender” nor “reply to list”. Those MUA commands, if implemented per existing standards, will each compose a message to the correct address for the chosen function. So the default behaviour, of the *command chosen by the person composing a reply*, matches the reply behaviour of Richard, and I, for each of the reply commands. This does not need any of us making any special alterations to any message header fields. The person composing a reply is the only one in a position to know whether they want the “reply to sender” or “reply to list” command. (And if they don't have one or both of those commands available, it is only in their power to choose a better MUA.) Don't expect the mailing list, nor individual posters, to second guess you on that. This has all been hashed out here in the past many times, but it is good to refresh the references and facts again. -- \ “I thought I'd begin by reading a poem by Shakespeare, but then | `\ I thought ‘Why should I? He never reads any of mine.’” —Spike | _o__) Milligan | Ben Finney
Re: Emacs info documentation missing in Debian Unstable
Nishan Singh Mann <nishan.singh.m...@gmail.com> writes: > Hello, on Ubuntu 17.10 which to my knowledge is based on Debian unstable, > installing Emacs via $sudo apt install emacs and then trying to view the > Emacs manual using C-h r fails with error "Info file emacs does not > exist" The Emacs manual is distributed subject to the GNU FDL, which imposes non-free restrictions on modification and redistribution. (Yes, it's very misleading to have non-free restrictions in a so-called “free documentation license”, but that's what the FSF have chosen.) Manoj Srivastava has summarised effectively <URL:https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml> why the GNU FDL makes a work non-free. So, Emacs under condition of the GNU GPL is free, and is in Debian; but the Emacs manual under condition of the GNU FDL is non-free, so it cannot be in Debian. You can either view the manual online <URL:https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/> or get it from outside Debian (for example, the ‘non-free’ area which is not part of Debian). -- \“Ubi dubium, ibi libertas.” (“Where there is doubt, there is | `\freedom.”) | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Youtube - newbie guidance
Andre Majorel <aym-nai...@teaser.fr> writes: > You occasionally have to install a new version [of ‘youtube-dl’] from > upstream, which in this case is easy : download from their site and > plop into /usr/local/bin or ~/bin so that command "youtube-dl" refers > to the new version instead of the now useless /usr/bin/youtube-dl > provided by the Debian package. I recommend against that. One important reason we install packages from Debian is so that we *don't* need to manage and run arbitrary code from upstream. Doing that also breaks package tracking when a security or other update is needed, losing another benefit of running the Debian package. The Debian package ‘youtube-dl’ in Unstable is typically updated within a day or two if YouTube breaks the interface. <URL:https://packages.debian.org/sid/youtube-dl> I recommend downloading the *Debian package* of the new version when it is available, and installing that. You will then continue enjoying the benefits of running the program as packaged in Debian. -- \“The whole area of [treating source code as intellectual | `\property] is almost assuring a customer that you are not going | _o__) to do any innovation in the future.” —Gary Barnett | Ben Finney
Re: Youtube - newbie guidance
Richard Owlett <rowl...@cloud85.net> writes: > I've never used youtube before. One thing to note explicitly: YouTube is deliberately designed to thwart downloading videos. YouTube's owner (Google, Alphabet, whatever they call themselves next year) have chosen a business model [0] that benefits when more people keep watching videos *via the site* [1]. So downloading videos from the site works directly against the business model they have chosen. I say this by way of explaining that, while there are many tools that can download videos from the site for offline viewing, the YouTube operators do not support this and will change the site without notice, in ways that cause such tools to stop working. > I did not have time to watch the whole video. > How can I download and save it? I am a happy user of ‘youtube-dl’ as suggested in this thread. There are others that can work well too. Just be prepared for the site owner's indifference, even hostility, to any such tool. None of them will keep working when YouTube is arbitrarily changed, which happens a number of times each year. > Is there some way to pause a video if I'm interrupted? This, too, works against the business model the site owners have chosen. I expect they will never implement such a feature. So yes, downloading the video for offline viewing – i.e. thwarting that business model – is IMO the sensible choice. [0] The site owners explicitly shifted from trying to maximise how many times you view their videos, to *how much time on site* you spend. <URL:https://www.businessinsider.com.au/youtube-watch-time-vs-views-2015-7> [1] YouTube has many ways to watch their videos on other sites. All of them entail staying online and communicating continually with the YouTube site about what you're doing. -- \ “The best in us does not require the worst in us: Our love of | `\ other human beings does not need to be nurtured by delusion.” | _o__) —Sam Harris, at _Beyond Belief 2006_ | Ben Finney
Re: Reporting a bug that affects more than one package
Terry Roy <t...@futurecourse.com> writes: > I found a bug in Debian's latest 9.3 update where the postinst script > of a package contained the line: > > "su - username do something" I've just run this command: grep "su - " /var/lib/dpkg/info/* which returned no results on a system with thousands of packages installed. So I tentatively conclude that it's not a common pattern. > I've just run across it again on a fresh install of another package. > I've reported that bug but clearly this seems to be an issue involving > the use of "su -" in postinst. You should proceed this way, IMO. Report a bug against each package that uses that invocation. I note that a similar pattern, invoking ‘su’ to run commands as another user, is in the ‘postgresql-common’ package: su -s /bin/sh postgres -c "… more commands …" If you alter the postinst script to use that pattern instead, does it avoid the problem you describe? If so, you can suggest that to the package maintainer. -- \ “Fox News gives you both sides of every story: the President's | `\ side and the Vice President's side.” —Steven Colbert, 2006-04-29 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: [OT] Relavant mailing list or USENET group
Richard Owlett <rowl...@cloud85.net> writes: > On 12/03/2017 04:14 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > > What specific features must the device omit, to meet this criterion? > > Presence of internal hardware capable of radiating in cell network > spectrum (omitting SIM card insufficient). If that is the *only* way to satisfy your requirements, along with all the other features you require: I am confident you will find no-one selling such a device ready for you to use. You will need to build such a thing yourself, or with some group of others who share such a strict set of requirements. -- \“The difference between religions and cults is determined by | `\ how much real estate is owned.” —Frank Zappa | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: [OT] Relavant mailing list or USENET group
Richard Owlett <rowl...@cloud85.net> writes: > 6. *NOT* be a "smartphone". What specific features must the device omit, to meet this criterion? Is it sufficient that the device does not connect to a cellular telephone network? Or are there other features (which, specifically?) that must also be omitted? -- \ “My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves | `\ to fact, not to try and make facts harmonise with my | _o__) aspirations.“ —Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860-09-23 | Ben Finney
Re: Can somebody explain the benefits of .d directories
Hans-Peter <theca...@aim.com> writes: > I have an honest question which is dead-simple: Why do we have ".d" > directories, such as "sources.d" or "grub.d", note that with grub, the > defaults are in another directory tree - this is simply beyond insane. Your question there seems less than an honest enquiry – asking for the reason something has come about – and more a rhetorical device. What specifically is it you think is “beyond insane”? The only thing you present that seems to address that is: > […] the downside being having to parse several files vs a single file which is surely an implementation detail and a design decision, not warranting any declaration of insanity. Yet you think it so egregious to be worthy of hyperbolic insult. > I seriously think this is nonsense, there is no "logical" reason for > doing this, afaict. Have I missed something ? Yes; you've missed the opportunity to ask honestly with the expectation we might convince you of the reason. At this point you are frustrated and exasperated, and it seems unlikely you will be receptive to a discussion of benefits and trade-offs. For example: > I have asked the question on unix.stackexchange.com and got silly > answers trying to defend the "it is so much easier to parse x files in > a directory than a single file" stance (you gotta be kidding!). If you're going to dismiss explanations as “silly” and “kidding” without addressing the content, that is totally at odds with your profession of enquiry: > I would really appreciate answers on this […] You have circumscribed the domain of answers you would be receptive to, such that it seems – based on your current exasperated hyperbole at the expsting mundane answers – no mundane explanation will satisfy you. > I have waited many years before reporting this because I lacked > confidence, but seriously ...I think this is a bug and it needs to be > fixed. ".d" is braindead, does not add any functionality that cannot > be replicated with the "Enter" key on a keyboard and, in the worst > case, a line starting with # followed by some comment. On those terms, I would advise anyone not to engage with this discussion. Please don't disparage the work of those implementing these systems unless you are willing to accept that those who implement it get to make the design decisions, and not dismiss those decisions as “silly”, “you gotta be kidding”, “braindead”, and “beyond insane” — none of which engage with the actual design or implementation. -- \ “Don't be afraid of missing opportunities. Behind every failure | `\ is an opportunity somebody wishes they had missed.” —Jane | _o__) Wagner, via Lily Tomlin | Ben Finney
Debian-capable NAS with free software and hardware (was: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS)
Reco <recovery...@gmail.com> writes: > On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 06:25:01AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: > > The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30) > > <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>. > > Terrific, thanks. > > I'll wait for 3.5'' one, maybe pledge something. The crowd-fund campaign ends soon for the GnuBee PC-2, so anyone who wants one should pledge now. It'll be cheaper than waiting. I've booked mine :-) -- \“Odious ideas are not entitled to hide from criticism behind | `\ the human shield of their believers' feelings.” —Richard M. | _o__) Stallman | Ben Finney
Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS
Reco <recovery...@gmail.com> writes: > What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following > treats: > > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred. > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM. > - Gigabit Ethernet. > - 4 SATA disk slots. > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount. The GnuBee PC-1 is already available <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1/>. The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30) <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>. Both meet your criteria I believe, as well as being open hardware designs and have only free software requirements. Buy the former if you want one now. Fund the latter if you want 3.5-inch drives. -- \ “I do not believe in forgiveness as it is preached by the | `\church. We do not need the forgiveness of God, but of each | _o__)other and of ourselves.” —Robert G. Ingersoll | Ben Finney
Re: Request of recommendations for public Mercurial repository hosting
Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc...@yandex.com> writes: > Hello. I am looking for a place to host a small free software (as in > freedom) project. I write to ask for your recommendations. The Kallithea project <URL:https://kallithea-scm.org/> produces an entirely free-software VCS hosting system. Git and Mercurial are supported. I don't know of anywhere that runs a hosted Kallithea instance, but your search now becomes easier: Instead of trying to find a host that specifically runs a VCS with your (to my mind quite reasonable) requireements, you can instead search for a web host where you can run your own Kallithea instance. -- \ “Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.” —anonymous | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system
Urs Thuermann <u...@isnogud.escape.de> writes: > I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old > versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically > installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others. For > example > > # aptitude search "~i clang" > i clang - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based) > i A clang-3.5 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based) > i A libclang-common-3.5-dev - clang library - Common development package > i A libclang1-3.5 - C interface to the clang library That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed. That is, the APT database shows it was manually requested, and so will never be auto-removed. -- \ “… a voice said reassuringly: cheer up, things could get worse. | `\So I cheered up and, sure enough, things got worse.” —James C. | _o__) Hagerty, 1909–1981 | Ben Finney
Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch
Borden Rhodes <j...@bordenrhodes.com> writes: > You can't say that something is a stable upgrade from the previous > version and then be surprised that users are annoyed when they find it > isn't. When annoyed users are unable or unwilling – and I make no judgement here, in what we've seen described in this thread, about which of those is the cause – to describe problems sufficiently for the problem to be identified as a bug? Yes, in that circumstance the developers are justified in saying that the package has no reported bugs that prevent its release in a stable Debian. That is not a claim that problems don't exist. It is not a claim the developers believe no problems exist; most developers are not silly enough to think that no bugs reported is the same as no bugs. Quite the contrary. It means, though, that users who are annoyed must *describe the problems in bug reports*, in sufficient specific detail to investigate, if they expect the problems to be addressed. While the problem is only evident to people who don't describe the problems in sufficient detail for them to be investigated, those problems can be expected to persist. > I use open source software appreciating that I'm part of an experiment > where I'll be on my own if something goes wrong. Not at all! You are part of a large community when something goes wrong. The barrier to investigating such problems is *lower* than with proprietary software. Unlike proprietary software, free software removes artificial barriers erected against the community of users properly investigating a problem and offering improved versions of the software to solve it. > If the marketing and community stuck to that message, you'd get fewer > complaints because you can say 'You knew what you were getting into.' I'm glad that message is not promulgated further. It is a false message. Instead, the message is: You have a community of peers that could not exist without software freedom. Problems exist in any software; but, unlike proprietary software, the community around this free software *is permitted* to investigate problems. So, to the extent they are described precisely and reproducibly, the community can help much more than with proprietary software. > I found it refreshing when someone said 'if you want your hand held, > go some place else', because was an honest reflection of the facts and > his ability to provide support. I hope no one comes to any software *merely* wanting their hand held. Also, the person who told you that was not saying anything I believe about this community. > So, yes, it answers how you reduce complaints from frustrated users: > don't oversell your software in the first place. I agree with that sentiment. I disagree that the software has been oversold in any of the cases described in this thread. -- \ “The fundamental principle of science, the definition almost, | `\ is this: the sole test of the validity of any idea is | _o__) experiment.” —Richard P. Feynman | Ben Finney
Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch
tony mollica <t...@threedogs.net> writes: > This fresh install of Stretch has given me network problems, slow > display to the point of having to wait for a mouse click or wheel > movement to take effect along with some other less important changes > that needed to be disabled, bypassed or otherwise massaged to work. Which are the bug reports in the Debian BTS that describe these problems specifically? Since you're able to describe them, presumably you want them to be investigated and fixed. > Comparatively, Jessie was blazingly fast and problem free on the exact > same hardware and I don't find any indications of what's holding up > the show. To allow the maintainers of the specific Debian packages that you find to be slow, to investigate the problem to find the fault, you (as the only person with first-hand experience of these particular problems) need to describe the specifics in bug reports to the Debian BTS. -- \ “Try to become not a man of success, but try rather to become a | `\ man of value.” —Albert Einstein | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Recommended editor for novice programmers?
Johann Spies <johann.sp...@gmail.com> writes: > Some alternatives which (some of them may have been mentioned in this > thread): > > Atom - a fairly new and versatile one as far as I know > PyCharm (not a native Debian Package) but very nice to debug Python > with. The community edition is free. > Bluefish (especially when editing html files). Atom is free. It has an enormous dependency tree, so not yet in Debian. Bluefish is free. It is in Debian for a long time now. PyCharm is not free. Its community edition is zero-cost, though still not free. -- \“That's the essence of science: Ask an impertinent question, | `\and you're on the way to the pertinent answer.” —Jacob | _o__) Bronowski, _The Ascent of Man_, 1973 | Ben Finney
Re: Recommended editor for novice programmers?
Nick Boyce <n...@steelyglint.org> writes: > I don't like to confess to my august and more sophisticated colleagues > here how much code I've written using joe - albeit in the simpler > languages (a variety of Bash scripts, Perl, C, HTML and similar). Joe is a fine text editor licensed as free software. I say that as someone who has decided I don't like to use it myself. To paraphrase someone else paraphrasing Voltaire: I may disagree with your choice of text editor, but I will defend to the death your right to use it. So, go ahead and admit how much you like Joe and how much code it has allowed you to write. If anyone has a problem with your usage of Joe for programming, they have me to answer to :-) Here's where I need to object: > I don't want to provoke any religious war here, and sorry if I offend > anybody, but: That doesn't alter the fact that you've disparaged programs in terms that state an absolute problem inherent to the program. This is not helpful, because it implies that people who choose those programs are wrong and should be disparaged themselves. For example: > emacs is ridiculously heavy-weight That's an absolute statement of objective fact. Do you think it is true for everyone? You have expressed it as though you do. You are, in this expression, saying that people who use Emacs deserve ridicule because Emacs is so obviously heavy-weight they should be embarrassed to use it. That's needlessly hostile. You can, instead, say what *you don't like* about the program: > and I can never remember whether exit is Ctrl_C Ctrl_X or Ctrl_X > Ctrl_C (yes practice would help) That's great! Thank you for stating your position here in terms of what you are and are not able to do. This doesn't judge anyone else as inferior. > vi's power makes light work of many tasks but it's as user-friendly as > a cornered rat ... novices usually remember their first time trying to > find out how to exit with a genuine shudder. This gets too far into stating objective fact. How do you know the “usual” experience of novice Vi users, have you surveyed a statistically powerful sample? I appreciate that it can be fun to rant about difficulties using programs, and Emacs and Vi are favourite topics of this sort. We can, and should, do so without also dismissing other people as inferior. When you acknowledge the possibility of provoking offense, it is on your shoulders to either express yourself in ways that *don't* implicitly disparage people with different preferences. Either that, or don't provoke at all :-) Have fun, everyone, using whatever text editors make your life better. -- \ “My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves | `\ to fact, not to try and make facts harmonise with my | _o__) aspirations.“ —Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860-09-23 | Ben Finney
Re: Laptop recommendation
Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc...@yandex.com> writes: > On 03/09/17 08:38, Jonas Hedman wrote: > > Basically I'm on the hunt for a newish laptop on which I naturally > > want to run Debian. [...] > > > > Any suggestions? > > Yes. Think Penguin <https://www.thinkpenguin.com/> sells computers > compatible with GNU/Linux that do not need proprietary drivers. Seconded. Think Penguin is one of very few vendors that actively source components by working with manufacturers to ensure they need no proprietary drivers. > They claim to donate part of the profit to the development of free > software (I can neither confirm nor deny this claim). Think Penguin do indeed spend hours of paid work to *increase* the number of hardware devices that will work with only free software. See <URL:https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/free-software-wireless-n-mini-vpn-router-tpe-r1100> as an example, the TPE-R1100. > Use H-node <https://h-node.org/> to check for hardware compatibility > and contribute an entry for your hardware if you can. The H-node project is a great community resource. More contributions keep it humming. -- \ “Try adding “as long as you don't breach the terms of service – | `\ according to our sole judgement” to the end of any cloud | _o__) computing pitch.” —Simon Phipps, 2010-12-11 | Ben Finney
Re: Resign me from your lists
Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc...@yandex.com> writes: > I assumed originally that this was a person who subscribed then > realized he did not want to be subscribed and decided to complain to > the list about that. Even on that assumption, there is no call to insult the person. No-one is born knowing how to operate a mailing list subscription, please allow people to learn without implying they are inferior. -- \ “I went over to the neighbor's and asked to borrow a cup of | `\ salt. ‘What are you making?’ ‘A salt lick.’” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: STOP
Nothin's Gonna > STOP Us Now -- \ “Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a | `\ computer. Art is everything else we do.” —Donald Knuth, 1996 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Stop
Jessica Litwin <jess...@litw.in> writes: > HAMMER TIME! In the name of lve! -- \ “Why doesn't Python warn that it's not 100% perfect? Are people | `\ just supposed to “know” this, magically?” —Mitya Sirenef, | _o__) comp.lang.python, 2012-12-27 | Ben Finney
Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch
Borden Rhodes <j...@bordenrhodes.com> writes: > To answer an earlier question about why I don't report all the bugs I > find in software: I choose my battles. I don't recall anyone asking why you don't report all bugs you find in software, that would be a fatuous question. You were asked specifically about the bugs in Debian Stretch that you encountered and you said you were surprised Stretch was released with those bugs not fixed. The question is not why you don't report all bugs. The question is, if there are bugs you ahven't reported in time for them to be investigated prior to release, how can you claim surprise when they aren't fixed in time for release? -- \ “Courage is not the absence of fear, but the decision that | `\ something else is more important than fear.” —Ambrose Redmoon | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch
Borden Rhodes <j...@bordenrhodes.com> writes: > I was very surprised when they released Stretch as I didn't find > anything 'stable' about the packages that I was using. My reply was primarily addressing that statement: you were surprised that Stretch, with the problems you describe, was released. Borden Rhodes <j...@bordenrhodes.com> writes: > Thank you for your response, Ben, > > > What response did you get to the bug reports you filed from the > > problems you encountered? > > One example includes an X regression […] To my knowledge, it's still > broken in testing […] (#863532). Thanks. Do you have an understanding, from that discussion, why that specific bug remained unresolved in Stretch? > Then there are the issues with the upgrade to KDE 5, which aren't > Debian's fault […] These are all upstream bugs that I've tried to > report. Are there bug reports in Debian that would show why the package should not be released with those bugs? > Ironically, both reportbug and reportbug-ng are broken on my system! > The former's GTK interface doesn't load Sorry to learn that. Does the text-only interface work well enough to report bugs? > I also ran into an issue […] I just uninstalled them and continued on. I think you can see from that, why the Debian release team can't be expected to know that a package is unsuitable for release, if people's experience with a bug are not recorded in a bug report :-) -- \ “A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of | `\ widths.” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch
Borden Rhodes <j...@bordenrhodes.com> writes: > I had lots of problems with Stretch when it was in testing. Thank you for running the ‘testing’ suite. The problems you encountered are an important part of having people run that suite; you can then report those problems in the Debian bug tracking system, so that the package maintainers have enough information to correct the package *before* release. What response did you get to the bug reports you filed from the problems you encountered? > I was very surprised when they released Stretch The release managers will use the Debian BTS to determine whether packages should remain in Debian for the release. Did the bug reports you made get addressed? Which packages still had Debian bug reports unresolved when Stretch was released? -- \ “Whenever you read a good book, it's like the author is right | `\ there, in the room talking to you, which is why I don't like to | _o__) read good books.” —Jack Handey | Ben Finney
Re: LibreOffice - middle click paste does not work.
kjo...@poczta.onet.pl (Kamil Jońca) writes: > Sid box with libreoffice. > After recent upgrade I realized that paste selection with Middle Mouse > button does not work. Can anyone confirm? I do not know if I have to > report bug :) Thanks for asking first. You'll need to describe the behaviour in a similar way as if you were reporting a bug, though. For example: What did you upgrade, from what version to what version? Can you give a repeatable sequence of steps that others can also try to reproduce what you're seeing? Is there anything special about your environment that we should know? -- \ “Try adding “as long as you don't breach the terms of service – | `\ according to our sole judgement” to the end of any cloud | _o__) computing pitch.” —Simon Phipps, 2010-12-11 | Ben Finney
Re: please help me
alshemally37 <alshemall...@gmail.com> writes: > i got problems download kali linux 2017 it is need to me This is a forum for discussing the Debian system in particular, not Kali Linux. > help me what can i do please? Seek at the Kali Linux community forums <URL:https://www.kali.org/community/>. -- \ “I went to the cinema, it said ‘Adults: $5.00, Children $2.50’. | `\ So I said ‘Give me two boys and a girl.’” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Free software
Doug <dmcgarr...@optonline.net> writes: > On 07/18/2017 07:18 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > >> Doug [2017-07-18 13:25:34-05] wrote: > >>> My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not > >>> being free to modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do > >>> they complain? > > If anyone who wanted to improve the house I live in were prevented from > > doing so without the express permission of the people who made the > > house, you're damned right I would complain. > Well, complain! I take it, then, that now have enough satisfactory answers to your question above and don't need to ask “why do they complain” about software freedom in future? -- \ “I turned to speak to God/About the world's despair; But to | `\ make bad matters worse/I found God wasn't there.” —Robert Frost | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Free software
Teemu Likonen <tliko...@iki.fi> writes: > Doug [2017-07-18 13:25:34-05] wrote: > > > My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not being > > free to modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do they > > complain? > > Free software has the advantage that it does not depend on just one > company and its interests. A free software community can maintain code > longer and can port it to different platforms. The community benefits > even if only some people actually modify the software. By analogy: I am not capable of maintaining the house I live in, let alone of making significant improvements. Yet I benefit from the fact that anyone sufficiently motivated can learn to do so and they don't need permission from the people who made the house. If anyone who wanted to improve the house I live in were prevented from doing so without the express permission of the people who made the house, you're damned right I would complain. I may have no intention of ever doing so myself, but I want a wide-open market of people who can do so if I ask, who have learned because no law stops them from doing so. Free software includes that same freedom for software: Everyone is free to learn about it, and try to improve it, and share their work with others who want it. Because everyone has that freedom, we don't all have to exercise it. But we must defend it for everyone, and look with suspicion on anyone – even those who sell video cards – who tries to deny us that freedom. -- \ “All television is educational television. The question is: | `\ what is it teaching?” —Nicholas Johnson | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: FOSS-friendly Wireless Access Point (WAP) for SOHO network?
David Christensen <dpchr...@holgerdanske.com> writes: > I am looking for a FOSS-friendly Wireless Access Point (WAP) […]. Thanks for being specific about your requirements. I am a happy customer of ThinkPenguin, who make the TPE-R1100 <URL:https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/free-software-wireless-n-mini-vpn-router-tpe-r1100> wireless access point, router, and VPN gateway. ThinkPenguin actively worked to develop one of the only free-software wireless router firmware, LibreCMC <URL:http://librecmc.org/> in order to put it on this device. -- \ “It’s a great idea to come in unencumbered by dogma but you | `\can’t also be unencumbered by evidence.” —Darren Saunders, | _o__) 2015-12-02 | Ben Finney
Re: why can't I visit this web site
Long Wind <longwind2...@gmail.com> writes: > i am not at home and can't use debian pc That's okay. We can wait until you are able to reply properly. -- \ “Are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Umm, I think so, Don | `\ Cerebro, but, umm, why would Sophia Loren do a musical?” | _o__) —_Pinky and The Brain_ | Ben Finney
Re: why can't I visit this web site
Long Wind <longwind2...@gmail.com> writes: > this is really unbelievable > I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of the monitor into your face? > can you help me and test the site? You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can know whether they're experiencing the same. -- \ “Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands | `\ it.” —Albert Einstein | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Old, stale bug reports (bug triage)
Felix Dietrich <felix.dietr...@sperrhaken.name> writes: > What is the etiquette dealing with seemingly forgotten bug reports? You should start with a message to the bug report email address. That will reach both the current owner of the report, and the package maintainer address. > […] to have another look at the report and decide for an appropriate > action; may I close the report myself or set e.g. the "wontfix" tag; > something else? Closing the report should be done only if that is clearly the conclusion. As a newcomer you should not do that except where there is a clear statement that the report has nothing further to be done. Same with setting a “wontfix” tag; that is an expression of the maintainer's position, and so it needs to be clearly expressed by the maintainers. You can begin with just a “What's the latest on dealing with this report?” message. More often that you might expect, that prompts someone to give an update on new information that never made its way to the bug report. -- \ “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world | `\ would also change.” —Mohandas K. Gandhi, _Collected Works_, 1913 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Spam on Debian lists
Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> writes: > On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:40:56 +0200 Jochen Spieker <m...@well-adjusted.de> > wrote: > > > fc: > > > Why not just restrict it to people who have subscribed? > > > > Because this excludes use cases that are deemed valid by the list > > masters. > > Like what? I can't speak for the list masters, but I can speak for use cases that would exclude that I find valid: * Posting from a service (such as a mailing list aggregator) which presents a single interface accessible without an email client. * Posting by people who we want to participate in the discussion, but who do not (yet) see the benefit to themselves of going through a subscription process. * Cross-posting on multiple forums when a discussion involves parties outside Debian, and we don't want the discussion balkanised with some people's responses rejected. There are likely others, but that seems enough to answer the question. -- \ “The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on | `\ uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral, and | _o__)spiritual health.” —_The Uses Of The Past_, Herbert J. Muller | Ben Finney
Re: Proper folder for non-Debian binaries
Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> writes: > Denying an admin the right to create other directories in the root of > /usr/local/ makes no sense to me. It makes sense in the context of “this space reserved for future use”. The operating system reserves some name spaces – including the root directory – to allow newer versions to introduce new entries unilaterally, knowing that any existing entry found there is *already* in violation of the standard and should be removed. -- \ “Only good questions deserve good answers.” —Oscar Wilde, _De | `\ Profundis_, 1897 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Debian man pages - mechanics of creation/publication?
Richard Owlett <rowl...@cloud85.net> writes: > I've an idea for something to be added to some man pages. > It has not risen even the "wishlist bug" stage yet. With such vague description, answers can only be very vague and won't address specifics of what you hope to do. > To rise that far I have to convince myself that the modification of so > many existing man pages could be automated. Manual pages are produced by a multitude of different processes, from documents in lots of different source formats. Automation of changes is going to be very variable in how feasible it would be across the range of those documents. If you can be more specific about exactly what it is you want to do, our answers can engage more specifically. -- \ “I was in a bar the other night, hopping from barstool to | `\ barstool, trying to get lucky, but there wasn't any gum under | _o__) any of them.” —Emo Philips | Ben Finney
Re: bug report
Thibault Roulet <t...@omch.ch> writes: > I have some serious issues with USB 3 HDD docking station, in which > package should I report this bug ? The hardware is not what determines which package to which you should report the bug. Instead, you will need to specify what software is behaving incorrectly. That's what determines which package should receive the bug report. -- \ “We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the | `\ sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his | _o__) wife is beautiful and his children smart.” —Henry L. Mencken | Ben Finney
Re: Errors were encountered while processing python3.5 etc
Gary Roach <gary719_li...@verizon.net> writes: > The problem seems to be in the python3.5-minimal package. It won't > configure. You'll need to report a bug about that, showing the complete text of the session where you run a command and the output leading to the failure. > I would report this as a bug but the problem seems to have rendered > the reportbug program unusable. You can report a bug to the BTS by composing an email message <URL:https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting>. The ‘reportbug’ tool is a helper program, not a requirement, for making bug reports. -- \ “In the long run, the utility of all non-Free software | `\ approaches zero. All non-Free software is a dead end.” —Mark | _o__) Pilgrim, 2006 | Ben Finney
Re: Synaptic icons - where defined/explained?
David Wright <deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes: > So when you run aptitude […] > > Also if so, what do you see when you select this item? > (ie press return on this item, then ↓ and return, > repeating until you reach actual package names.) For reference, the “expand all items within this one” command is ‘[’. The corresponding “collapse all items within this one” command is ‘]’. -- \ “How many people here have telekenetic powers? Raise my hand.” | `\ —Emo Philips | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?
john cusey <john_cu...@hotmail.com> writes: > Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs? What kind of answer are you looking for? One correct answer would be: Because installing software is a potentially very disruptive act on a computer, so it should be done through a formal system of packages. Installing a package, for me, is a matter of: * Open the package manager as a privileged user. Because I never want to be able to accidentally install software, my normal user account has no access to do this. * Browse the menu of available packages. * Click it, and it installs. > I tried to install opera on Debian. So, another correct answer is: Debian is an operating system of free software, and Opera is instead proprietary, so necessarily outside Debian. Third-party packages may not be so smoothly integrated into the package system. Non-free software may be available from people who maintain it for use in Debian, but there is no guarantee it is available in the package manager. > I have computer science degree and I still trying to do this. You imply that the problem is primarily one of technical difficulty. Not so: it is much more a problem of competing interests (those who want to restrict software freedom do not want their software on the terms Debian is available) and social factors (ensuring people cannot shoot themselves in the foot with a dangerously insecure tool will necessarily entail some barriers to one-click operation). > I know nobody will read this email. You know better now. -- \“Good morning, Pooh Bear”, said Eeyore gloomily. “If it is a | `\ good morning”, he said. “Which I doubt”, said he. —A. A. Milne, | _o__)_Winnie-the-Pooh_ | Ben Finney
Re: (error) @ flashplugin-nonfree
Brian <a...@cityscape.co.uk> writes: > On Sat 17 Dec 2016 at 20:28:21 +0100, Erwan David wrote: > > > opening a binary file in an unknown format is always a bad idea. > > Really? What binary file is in the mail? The MIME content-type specified for that attachment is “application/octet-stream”. That explicitly means a stream of bytes, in an opaque format. Whether that specification is correct can only be determined by opening the content; exactly the mistake Erwan is warning against. -- \ “I thought I'd begin by reading a poem by Shakespeare, but then | `\ I thought ‘Why should I? He never reads any of mine.’” —Spike | _o__) Milligan | Ben Finney
Re: Python Alternatives?
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeif...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes: > Ben Finney <bign...@debian.org> writes: > > > The policy for Python in Debian requires that “/usr/bin/python’ is > > the default Python 2 interpreter, and ‘/usr/bin/python3’ is the > > default Python 3 interpreter. > > > > There is no “default Python interpreter” in Debian. Python 2 and > > Python 3 are incompatible run-time systems. > > snowball:518$ ls -l /usr/bin/python You're requesting the default Python 2 interpreter. > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Jun 3 2016 /usr/bin/python -> python2.7* On that system, the default Python 2 interpreter is Python 2.7. > python2.7 is the default python on my system for any reasonable value of > "default". That's a reasonable interpretation of “default”. But that's not a reasonable interpretation of “the default Python interpreter”, because on Debian, the Python interpreter is always distinct for each incompatible major version. The major versions don't default to anything else; you have to explicitly choose one. It so happens, by historical accident, that ‘/usr/bin/python’ is the name for Python 2's interpreter. It is not the name for any other Python interpreter version, and it is not “the default Python interpreter”. If you want Python 2, you invoke the interpreter named ‘python’. If you want Python 3, you invoke the interpreter named ‘python3’. You don't have the option not to choose; there is no default major version of Python in Debian. -- \ “It's up to the masses to distribute [music] however they want | `\… The laws don't matter at that point. People sharing music in | _o__)their bedrooms is the new radio.” —Neil Young, 2008-05-06 | Ben Finney
Re: Python Alternatives?
Michael Milliman <michael.e.milli...@gmail.com> writes: > I currently have both Python 2.7 and Python 3.4 installed on my debain > 8.5 (jessie) system. The default Python interpreter on the system is > Python 2.7 (as linked by /usr/bin/python). The policy for Python in Debian requires that “/usr/bin/python’ is the default Python 2 interpreter, and ‘/usr/bin/python3’ is the default Python 3 interpreter. There is no “default Python interpreter” in Debian. Python 2 and Python 3 are incompatible run-time systems. > I would prefer [the ‘/usr/bin/python’ interpreter] to be Python 3.4. That would violate Debian Python policy. You are free to do it on your own system, but it will likely break many Python packages on Debian, and you get to keep all the pieces :-) -- \ “Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do | `\ so too.” —Voltaire, _Essay On Tolerance_ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: non-free software requirement
Steve Greig <greigst...@gmail.com> writes: > When I installed debian I got a message saying my computer (emachines > laptop AMD Athlon X2 64bit) needed some non-free software. The names of the > software were given although I did not record the names. That's important information. Could you try running the installer again, and carefully recording the messages? > However, I wondered what it might be for. If you had recorded what specifically the messages said, that would have been useful to know. Without knowing the specific drivers it suggested, we can only guess, like you :-) -- \ “Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to | `\another, ‘What! You too? I thought I was the only one!’” —C.S. | _o__) Lewis | Ben Finney
Re: Where are WiFi passwords (WPA keys) stored?
Robert Latest <boblat...@gmail.com> writes: > […] when I configured the WiFi network using some GUI tool in the XFCE > desktop, You'll need to be more specific than that :-) Exactly which tool did you use? > So there must be a place, somewhere, where the WiFi passowrd ist > stored, outside the realm of some specific user. Where is it? That will depend on what version of Debian, and which tool you used. The most likely answer is: You used the GNOME tool that interacts with NetworkManager <URL:https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager>, but that could be wrong. Please tell us the details so we can know better what your system is doing. -- \ “I went to a garage sale. ‘How much for the garage?’ ‘It's not | `\for sale.’” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: It there a way to file a complaint against a package maintainer?
J Mo <jm...@jmomo.net> writes: > This new maintainer has caused a lot of problems because they, > admittedly, don't use the package themselves and don't really > understand it. This is, I think, one of the better reasons to intervene. If there are willing maintainers among the actual user community for a package, those people have a somewhat stronger claim to the package maintainer role than people who are not in the user community of that package. > Anyone have any advice? People will naturally care about various things in this matter. Be aware of the natural tendency for such interactions to escalate, and continue to instead seek dispassionate discussion of problems. Keep calm. Always leave space for a graceful response. Seek discussion and consensus. Be guided by what's best for the user community of that package, the user community of Debian as a whole, and of software freedom generally. -- \ “What's another word for Thesaurus?” —Steven Wright | `\ | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: comparing password managers in Debian, synchronizing on multiple devices
deloptes <delop...@gmail.com> writes: > The idea to upload encrypted password on some cloud service is scary Then don't upload it to a cloud service :-) Instead, upload it to a specific host, one that you can make an informed trust decision about. > Passwords are usually kept in a safe place. Yes. Do you consider encrypted files, that can only be unlocked by one's private key, to be safe? > Especially private keys are not meant to be shared so I did not > understand what are you doing with your private gpg key? Do you have > it printed on paper? The private key for unlocking the database stays on the device where I'm using it. So yes, that means I need to be able to trust the device on which I unlock my passphrase database. That's entailed within the task: to access one's secret passphrases, one must do that on a device one trusts with that task. (Good sigmonster, have a cookie.) -- \ “Try adding “as long as you don't breach the terms of service – | `\ according to our sole judgement” to the end of any cloud | _o__) computing pitch.” —Simon Phipps, 2010-12-11 | Ben Finney
Re: comparing password managers in Debian, synchronizing on multiple devices
Daniel Pocock <dan...@pocock.pro> writes: > Therefore, how are people choosing a password manager and solving this > in practice? A primary criterion for my data is: Avoid depending on a service I can't quickly replicate elsewhere with all my data intact. This tends strongly toward standard protocols, and services that are published as free software. So, for a password manager: * The database must be in a format already known to be readable by other, mature, well-maintained software. (This disqualifies an application-specific storage format that might have been readable when I first checked but doesn't remain compatible over time.) * The encryption must be immediately available to decrypt with standard tools, using keys in a standard format and available in an obvious place to use. (This disqualifies software that says it supports a standard encryption algorithm but its keys or encrypted data are not right there for me to try decrypting in a hurry with standard tools.) * The synchronisation must default to, and encourage, standard widely-implemented file synchronisation systems. (This disqualifies software that has a non-default option for some protocol that most of the application's users don't use, therefore it's not as widely user-tested and more likely to be unreliable when I need it.) * The synchronisation must default to, and encourage, choosing an independently-maintained hosting provider. (Similar to the above, if most people default to a single hosting provider then the federated hosting will not be nearly well tested enough to assure reliability in a pinch.) * The synchronisation must easily and obviously allow a user to set up their own (or ask a skilled friend to set up) hosting, on at least an equal standing with other synchronisation methods. For me, at present the best option is Password Store (a.k.a. ‘pass’). > - which password managers have a built-in mechanism for synchronizing > or merging password lists on multiple devices? By setting a Git remote to a private hosted repository, all my devices can sync the password database by Git push and pull. > - who is using some other mechanism such as Git or ownCloud to sync? Git is not an other method, it's built in to the application :-) > Some other factors that come to mind for a comparison table: > > - support for PGP Password Store uses standard OpenPGP, as implemented by GnuPG. > - support for other strong crypto (e.g. smartcard) Don't know about this. > - merging algorithm for multiple devices Password Store uses a separate encrypted file for each entry, so merges are only a matter of managing a directory tree. > - multi-user / team capabilities I've seen discussion of this in the Password Store community; it usually comes down to managing one's GnuPG keys. Password Store allows the database to be encrypted to (i.e. unlockable by any of) multiple GnuPG keys. > - browser integration I prefer integration to *all* applications on the desktop: i.e., the program should simply place the passphrase in the clipboard, allowing me to paste it into whatever form I visit. That covers the browser as well. -- \“But it is permissible to make a judgment after you have | `\examined the evidence. In some circles it is even encouraged.” | _o__)—Carl Sagan, _The Burden of Skepticism_, 1987 | Ben Finney
Re: Which version of Debian from which physical device?
Richard Owlett <rowl...@cloud85.net> writes: > However today, while chasing down an intermittent problem, I needed to > know which point release was active and which physical device > contained the OS. Usually I have gparted installed and can determine > the active device by the "locked" symbol. The question “which physical device contains the OS?” may not have a simple answer: * “physical device” can have multiple layers of abstraction involved, so it's somewhat arbitrary which one you pick as “physical”. * “the OS” can be on many devices, so you need to pick which part of the OS you're interested in. A question with a simpler answer: “which device is currently mounted as the root filesystem?”, may serve as a useful proxy. Here is one answer: $ mount | grep 'on / ' /dev/sda1 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered) Does that proxy question suffice? -- \ “Progress might have been all right once, but it's gone on too | `\long.” —Ogden Nash | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Building Debian Package From Upstream Source
Stephen Allen <marathon.duran...@gmail.com> writes: > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 10:00:03AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: > > Especially when patches are needed, you shouldn't expect those > > patches to apply to anything except the exact upstream version. The > > work of a Debian package maintainer includes re-working the patches > > for each version. > > OIC That's most likely the issue - I'll be patient and wait for > the Debian maintainer to update. You can also help out, if you want to exercise the skills: Figure out the intent of those patches, get the Debian packaging VCS onto your local environment, and see what has changed in the new version from upstream that might affect the intent of the patches. Debian package maintainers need people who can help out, and tangible measurable work like this is a good way to get involved. -- \ “Skepticism is the highest duty and blind faith the one | `\ unpardonable sin.” —Thomas Henry Huxley, _Essays on | _o__) Controversial Questions_, 1889 | Ben Finney
Re: Building Debian Package From Upstream Source
Stephen Allen <marathon.duran...@gmail.com> writes: > So, I downloaded the upstream source, downloaded the most recent > version of the Debian Package, so that I have a Debian source tree. Is the upstream source you downloaded, different from the upstream source (the ‘….orig.tar.gz’) to which the Debian packaging is intended to apply? Especially when patches are needed, you shouldn't expect those patches to apply to anything except the exact upstream version. The work of a Debian package maintainer includes re-working the patches for each version. -- \ “You've got the brain of a four-year-old boy, and I'll bet he | `\ was glad to get rid of it.” —Groucho Marx | _o__) | Ben Finney
Primary and secondary school education in free software
Howdy all, Does anyone know people skilled in education curricula – teachers and those who write such curricula – also passionate about software freedom? I am wanting to find people skilled in producing primary and secondary school curricula, who would be interested in working to make material that uses only free software while teaching computing skills to school children. The intent is to teach technology skills (e.g. computer programming, online collaboration) in a manner that schools will find valuable and easily adopted, while diligently avoiding any dependence on non-free platforms or technologies. I know that there must be many people passionate about the issue who would read this, but I'm particularly looking for people whose profession is to make such material *and* who have this interest. -- \ “It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh | `\at that man.” —Jack Handey | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?
Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeo...@doraji.xyz> writes: > My meant is that 100% rules/policy is not easy to keep for FSF-like > Free Software by the definition. Your statement was that you did not think you could tell people to use free software. Do you still think so? Why? Do you believe “keep 100% rules/policy” is necessary for a person using free software? What does that mean? > Only in real life i have some trouble because my country Korea is > still under MS-Windows softwares also my shop use Windows XP for work. You have our sympathy :-) Please keep promoting use of free software, even for people currently who are also using non-free software. -- \ “I like to fill my bathtub up with water, then turn the shower | `\ on and pretend I'm in a submarine that's been hit.” —Steven | _o__) Wright | Ben Finney
Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck
No Spam <mailingli...@high5.alioth.uberspace.de> writes: > So it is 12 years later; To what event are you referring? Your message's header has no standard “In-Reply-To” field, so it apparently is not composed as a reply. > has someone found something working? I hope you can find an email client that correctly preserves the thread of discussion :-) -- \ “… correct code is great, code that crashes could use | `\ improvement, but incorrect code that doesn’t crash is a | _o__)horrible nightmare.” —Chris Smith, 2008-08-22 | Ben Finney
Re: epub files and debian?
Dan Ritter <d...@randomstring.org> writes: > evince cannot handle epub at all. Your statement about "many epub > files don't open correctly in evince" should read "no epub files are > opened by evince". Bah, you're right. This is a long-standing request (since 2008!) in the Gnome BTS <URL:https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539347>. The sticking point appears to be that Evince fundamentally assumes the document naturally has pages, whereas EPub presents a continuous document. No-one has suggested a good resolution to that. -- \ “The long-term solution to mountains of waste is not more | `\ landfill sites but fewer shopping centres.” —Clive Hamilton, | _o__) _Affluenza_, 2005 | Ben Finney
Re: epub files and debian?
Kushal Kumaran <kus...@locationd.net> writes: > Ben Finney <ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au> writes: > > > Dan Ritter <d...@randomstring.org> writes: > > > >> However, you probably don't need to go that far. EPUB is HTML > >> in a ZIP file. Unzip it, then deal with HTML as you wish. > > > > Many EPub files that I find, don't open correctly in Evince (the default > > Gnome document viewer). Are there various formats that call themselves > > EPub? > > evince cannot handle epub (application/epub+zip). Okay. How is that different from the format described above: “EPub is HTML in a Zip file”? That's what I would expect as “application/epub+zip”. -- \ “If I haven't seen as far as others, it is because giants were | `\ standing on my shoulders.” —Hal Abelson | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: epub files and debian?
Dan Ritter <d...@randomstring.org> writes: > However, you probably don't need to go that far. EPUB is HTML > in a ZIP file. Unzip it, then deal with HTML as you wish. Many EPub files that I find, don't open correctly in Evince (the default Gnome document viewer). Are there various formats that call themselves EPub? -- \ “Faith is the determination to remain ignorant in the face of | `\ all evidence that you are ignorant.” —Shaun Mason | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:47:35 AM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > >> I'm looking for a decentralized instant message system (e.g. XMPP, SIP, > > >> ...) where I can be sure that I receive all messages, even if I'm not > > >> connected when the message is sent [ Obviously, I'll only receive them > > >> when I'm back online. ] > > > > > > I believe that's called "electronic mail" or "email". > > > > There's that, and there are SMS messages as well, indeed. SMS probably does not count as a decentralised system in the sense the original poster is seeking. > Google Voice Google's services are highly centralised to a single vendor. -- \ “Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in | `\ behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.” —Ambrose | _o__) Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 | Ben Finney
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?
Stefan Monnier <monn...@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > I'm looking for a decentralized instant message system (e.g. XMPP, SIP, > ...) where I can be sure that I receive all messages, even if I'm not > connected when the message is sent [ Obviously, I'll only receive them > when I'm back online. ] While still new, I see that Matrix <URL:https://matrix.org/> is a decentralised communication platform which does what you describe and more. > PS: Bonus points if that feature is also available on an Android > application that's Free Software. The Vector client <URL:http://vector.im/> is a good-looking Matrix client for web and mobile OSen. Neither of them are packaged in Debian yet; please help if you can! <URL:https://bugs.debian.org/830601> -- \ “For myself, I am an optimist — it does not seem to be much use | `\ being anything else.” —Winston Churchill, 1954-11-09 | _o__) | Ben Finney
Re: debian version ID
Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> writes: > Given the many possible options[1] for that file's content, one would > think there would be a way to get the extra detail in, maybe > VERSION_ID=8 and VERSION="8.5 (Jessie)", or move "Jessie" to > VERSION_CODENAME and put 8.5 as VERSION. I don't understand what you're asking, then. Are you claiming the current content of the file violates that standard? If so, a bug report would be appropriate. If not, are you asking about counter-factual “why wasn't it done some other way”? An obvious answer is “because choosing some particular single way necessarily means the other ways are not chosen”. But you seem to be wanting some non-obvious answer different from that. -- \ “We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!” | `\—Vroomfondel, _The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy_, Douglas | _o__) Adams | Ben Finney
Re: debian version ID
Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> writes: > Will someone please explain (or point to, since it's not in release > notes), why: > > 1: /etc/os-release (in Jessie at least) does not include the point > release version as represented by /etc/debian_version The proximate explanation is: Because the API for that file is different. It describes the stable release for its whole lifetime, not the updates made since that version of Debian was released. A related question might be: Where is the canonical location of the version string that *includes* the update (e.g. “8.5”)? I don't know whether such a thing exists. > 2: 8.5 (as installed here on host gx62b) is not using the (LTS) 4.4 > kernel I expect the reason is: Because at the time Jessie was frozen, Linux 4.4 was not released. An update to Jessie is made only to fix bugs, not to gain new releases of packages. So the question instead is: Why would the general policy of “don't upgrade a package to a new version” for Debian stable releases, have an exception for this package? -- \“Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what | `\mnemonic means, you've got a problem.” —Larry Wall | _o__) | Ben Finney
