Re: is it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?
--snip-- I now have a list of trolls to ignore, at least some good that came of the discussion. --snip-- H -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Goodbye debian
Given the ghastliness of maintaining Perl code I've had to maintain perl code at work, so you have my sympathies. But in Perl's defense, it's not a necessary characteristic of Perl to be hard to maintain. It's just the inherent flexibility of the language that makes it easier to write Write Only Code. Given that you are refactoring at all shows that, while Perl has the flexibility to be written in an overly complex way, it can also be written to be maintainable, even in large projects. As for the lack of comments in the code, I've read some interesting opinions about the practice of commenting. That bad comments are worse than no comments at all, and that comments themselves tend to be the first victim of code rot. I've seen some comments in production code, that if it weren't for the NDA, would have been sent to www.thedailywtf.com. Using self-documenting code practices, sticking to the standards set out in Perl Best Practices, and the constant use of Perlcritic has reduced the amount of comments I've needed to put into code, as well as the need to maintain the comments. Which, in my opinion, can be harder than maintaining the code. There are no compile or run time error or warnings for an out-of-date comment. One extreme view was that comments in the code should be avoided as the need to comment was a sign that it was time to refactor of the code instead. That said, people who don't put descriptive comments with their submits need shot. :) I've got a bit of free time on my hands, perhaps you want some help refactoring? H. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: is it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?
Will you not be reading it, in the same way you weren't continuing the discussion? Here is the thing, When you describe people in a negative way, that is in an insult. The big hint that you are doing so, is when you start the sentence with you're If you are expressing an opinion, it starts with I think ... you're off your rocker is a term of derision and is an insult. I think that your idea is sub-optimal is an opinion. Turn it around onto yourself, and think how it would make you feel. That's also a good way to figure out what is insulting or not. But it may take a bit more thought. Why would I need a teaching course? I have a degree in psychology. I know about projection, I also know it is typified by a defensive mental position, like a person trying to defend his hypocrisy. you were going to seriously make me look like a full, is spelled fool, and I didn't have to make you look like one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: is it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?
Hal Vaughan wrote. But I haven't seen anyone insult him yet -- but then I haven't read many of the overnight posts yet. Anybody here watch The daily show. The first time I ever saw a show, they had a piece where they had Donald Rumsfeld denying he had ever said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, then they cut to old news footage of Rumsfeld saying We know they've got weapons of mass destruction, we know where they are. Classic. you're off your rocker I've never seen someone work so hard due to fear and sloth. You're not just ignorant ...just plain ignorant and stupid also interesting was the use of disparaging remarks about anyone who agreed with him Nobody agrees with you. At least nobody with any programming talent and experience. and that's just you from one email. Do you actually read what you are typing? Here is a bit of your own email you should have read, the bit where you say no point in continuing any discussion. Because you kept on replying, which _is_ _how_ _to_ _continue_ _the_ _discussion_. It's clear they all have significantly more experience than you and they're telling you, There is no point to what you're doing., If you read the comments at the start, there were suggestions on ways do what he wanted to do, or suggestions of systems that are primarily C based. Not only are you not reading your own emails, you are not reading others. And to the people (Neal Hogan, Lisi Reisz), who had seemed to have the biggest problems with what he was saying, who contributed the least logic and factual statements to the entire discussion. A big ironic thanks for contributing noise to the signal. --snip-- “Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.” GB Shaw. Yes, that's a cute quotation. I can also cite Zen quotations or other sources about the wisdom of knowing when to fight and when not to, or when to push a big rock out of the way or when it's better to walk around that rock. Great, you can go google up some zen and I'll pretend I care. I now have a list of trolls to ignore, at least some good that came of the discussion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: is it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?
This guy asked a relatively simple question which I'm paraphrasing here as can you run Debian without perl or python, the answer is pretty much no. He gave his reasons for the question and his opinion on the answers he was given. He's also started probably the most interesting thread on this list for a while. As I've read it, he's not attacked anyone personally even when disagreeing with people and yet he is being personally attacked for his opinions. Well, here is my opinion, if you feel threatened enough by someone who disagrees with you, that you must insult them, it's a sign of a weak logic or a weak mind. It's the reaction typical of a zealot, fool or troll and not the response of someone with some useful knowledge to share. I don't agree with him that a one programming language system would be the right way to do things or that it would lead to a bright future of our free software world. but I'm not going to insult him for his belief. In fact it might be a good thing that he tries this endeavor. “Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.” GB Shaw. The benefits of multiple languages over a 1 language system (1LS) is that it gives you the ability to program at the appropriate level of the problem space. The studies show that the higher level you program the more instructions you have per line, and yet the bugs per line stay about the same. The studies also show that the amount of LOC produced by programmers of the same skill level is about the same, whether they use assembly, c or java, and yet the amount of instructions per LOC increase with level of the language. More productivity in the same time span is a major advantage. On a personal note, I think that programmers that use different languages can communicate in meta-programming terms, a hash-table is a hash-table whether you call it a hash or a dictionary. The benefits of a 1LS would be small in comparison to the benefits of plural system. H. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Informations about LVM2
First time replying so please forgive any first time mistakes. If you apt-cache show lvm2 what do you see? if you run apt-file list lvm2 | egrep 'lvmsar|lvmsadc' Does it show lvmsar and lvmsadc as being present? From the documentation I've read there is a conflict between lvm-common and lvm2. Perhaps this is the source of the issue? Cheers C H 2009/4/16 Sylvain Dauthieux dauthieux.sylv...@gmail.com: Hi all, I'm a student in Master in French and i'm working on lvm2 (OS : Linux Debian etch) I need to use lvmsar and lvmsadc to collect informations about data in snapshots. I would like to compare 2 snapshots (modified block). My problem is : lvmsar and lvmsadc are not implemented. I have : testbox3:/lib/lvm-200# dpkg -l | grep lvm ii lvm-common 1.5.20 The Logical Volume Manager for Linux (common ii lvm2 2.02.06-4etch1 The Linux Logical Volume Manager I tested the last version of LVM but not implemented too. I am in training course of end studies, i'm blocked in my project. Could you help me please ? In advance, thanks. Cordially, Sylvain Dauthieux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.orgwith a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- that which does not kill us will give us six more weeks of winter, Nietzschean Groundhog Theory -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Informations about LVM2
Hi 2009/4/16 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net: In 464aa698-33b4-464a-b5be-85e3db338...@gmail.com, Sylvain Dauthieux wrote: My problem is : lvmsar and lvmsadc are not implemented. Yeah, they never have been in Linux LVM2. They probably never will be because the standard methods of monitoring block devices work perfectly well against the block devices created by Linux LVM2. Weird, because I have them apt-file list lvm2 | egrep 'lvmsar|lvmsadc' returns lvm2: /sbin/lvmsadc lvm2: /sbin/lvmsar sudo lvmsar --version returns LVM version: 2.02.39 (2008-06-27) Library version: 1.02.27 (2008-06-25) Driver version: 4.13.0 The etch version includes these as libraries, the lenny version includes them as binaries to the sbin. These functions might serve some purpose on other LVM implementations (e.g. HP-UX) or on the original Linux LVM, but they are no longer needed in Linux LVM 2. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/ Off the top of my head, check to see if the files have been include when you installed lvm2 by checking the /lib/lvm-200/ directory. If they are missing from there, maybe try reinstalling LVM2 after uninstalling lvm-common? Cheers. C H -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Informations about LVM2
Hi, After looking at the code, it turns out lvmsar and lvmsadc are just stubs with no functionality that I can see. so, still not implemented yet. :( Uninstalling and re-installing will _not_ help. My bad. 2009/4/16 Cowley Harris warewo...@gmail.com: Hi 2009/4/16 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net: In 464aa698-33b4-464a-b5be-85e3db338...@gmail.com, Sylvain Dauthieux wrote: My problem is : lvmsar and lvmsadc are not implemented. Yeah, they never have been in Linux LVM2. They probably never will be because the standard methods of monitoring block devices work perfectly well against the block devices created by Linux LVM2. Weird, because I have them apt-file list lvm2 | egrep 'lvmsar|lvmsadc' returns lvm2: /sbin/lvmsadc lvm2: /sbin/lvmsar sudo lvmsar --version returns LVM version: 2.02.39 (2008-06-27) Library version: 1.02.27 (2008-06-25) Driver version: 4.13.0 The etch version includes these as libraries, the lenny version includes them as binaries to the sbin. These functions might serve some purpose on other LVM implementations (e.g. HP-UX) or on the original Linux LVM, but they are no longer needed in Linux LVM 2. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/ Off the top of my head, check to see if the files have been include when you installed lvm2 by checking the /lib/lvm-200/ directory. If they are missing from there, maybe try reinstalling LVM2 after uninstalling lvm-common? Cheers. C H -- that which does not kill us will give us six more weeks of winter, Nietzschean Groundhog Theory -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
