Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: [snip] as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any. That do not include systemd as a package. As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Um, I've heard that said before - but I like to check my facts (especially when issues are emotive, *and* when outside parties may have an interest in creating dissension and disorder), so I've read Patrick's opinions[*1]. He's never said that (though I'd welcome an authoritive correction). Understandably cautious for someone who manages a huge workload almost single-handedly. He has said he intends to remain with the current init system - that he likes some of the abilities of systemd, and that one day he may move to systemd.[*1] Which is not close to absolutely refuses to use systemd. [*1]:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce have their freedom of choice constrained by users. I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to do anything other than destroy, given that the user has a choice. User's do constrain. Within some limits (e.g. if the developer cares primarily about the users i.e. if the main motivation is not to scratch an itch). And that few users can agree on what they want except on a few minor points, it is an impossibility to extrapolate constrain to define individually defined outcomes. When users dictate often times the constraint results only in the destruction of that which the dictators hoped to shape. They even dictate. Some times. The most vocal minority demand - I see little evidence that does anything but the opposite of what they expect. Sadly many believe that criticism is a right, and also something for which they are owed. Like similar behavior in restaurants it's ultimately unhealthy for the consumer unless done carefully, politely, and with the full understanding of possible reactions from the producers. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. Sound practice in commercial enterprise - not in FOSS. And even in commerce the business that's wise recognises it can't please everyone so it allocates resources in the most profitable manner - which means it never satisfies all possible customers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Depends on what you mean by distros of merit. Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros besides Jessie were using systemd as the default: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the system is running. It will soon be possible to choose before installation. And always a reboot is Mandatory to me would imply you cannot change it at all. Ever. The system wouldn't work if you did. But we know that is not the case. More importantly it depends on whether using default as a measure of support for your argument(?) is relevant. Fedora 15, RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server. Just read today OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too. Haven't checked. So, 9 total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list. Assuming your best intentions - that you meant supported, it's a *much* longer list. A shorter list is those distributions that *do not* include systemd. I meant those distros that install systemd as the init at install time. Which is default and mandatory. I don't now the answer (either way) - though I'd be interested in knowing (CoreOS?). I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian. Debuan, I think it's called. A novel fork in that it appears to focus more on raising money than producing code, and that it's developers are anonymous. An interesting concept for a FOSS project. Aside from those peculiarities (and the hype associated
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Laurent Bigonville bi...@debian.org wrote: Le Mon, 1 Dec 2014 23:05:09 -0800, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com a écrit : On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: snipped As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd will even work with Slackware. Well according to the following wikipedia page, Patrick Volkerding (Slackware founder) has not completely ruled you systemd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption Hmm. So I do a web search on Patrick Volkerding systemd and find he's tweeted twice about systemd in the last four tweets. One was a bit of an enigmatic tweet about crying into his coffee when he read boycottsystemd.org and realized he wasn't reading the Onion. https://twitter.com/volkerdi/status/460102616991547393 Enigmatic? Doesn't seem difficult to understand. Patrick has a very dry sense of humor and is fond of satire. For those that haven't read it The Onion is a satirical site (and a good one)[*1]. When I first looked at the boycottsystemd site I thought it was someone sending up the anti-system extremists - then I realised they were serious. Patrick cried in his coffee when he realised boycottsystemd was *not* a satire. (is that less enigmatic for you?) The response to the comments on it would be whoosh. [*1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Onion http://www.theonion.com/ Example of the sort of The Onion article that makes it easy to facepalm at boycottsystemd:- *Girl Scouts To Sell Cookies Online* Good. This should help some of the shyer girls become more comfortable talking to strangers online.” He seemed pretty non-enigmatic here to:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ snipped Kind regards -- Just because somebody hears something you say, or reads something that you write, doesn’t mean you’ve reached them. With reading comprehension being what it is in the U. S., you can safely toss that one out the window. If you want to judge by the listening habits of people who buy records, the first thing they do is put it on and talk over it ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQMjAvTpditYvb=EXMjVzZ_XqM2RhjN7yNAEzE5hL=5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 3 December 2014 at 01:18, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: snipped As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use systemd. snipped He's never said that (though I'd welcome an authoritive correction). Understandably cautious for someone who manages a huge workload almost single-handedly. He has said he intends to remain with the current init system - that he likes some of the abilities of systemd, and that one day he may move to systemd.[*1] Which is not close to absolutely refuses to use systemd. [*1]:- http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/interviews-28/interview-with-patrick-volkerding-of-slackware-949029/ Let's quote a little bit more of that, just for completeness: Did you read what you are responding to - or what you've just quoted?? -- ... Whether we end up using them or not remains to be seen. It's quite possible that we won't end up having a choice in the matter depending on how development that's out of our hands goes. It's hard to say whether moving to these technologies would be a good thing for Slackware overall. Concerning systemd, I do like the idea of a faster boot time (obviously), but I also like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, and I'm guessing that's what most Slackware users prefer too. I don't spend all day rebooting my machine, and having looked at systemd config files it seems to me a very foreign way of controlling a system to me, and attempting to control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon flies in the face of the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well. ... -- That, and some tweets that are more recent than this interview, leaves me with a slightly different impression than neutral wait-and-see. [facepalm] [...] -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. Brilliant satire(?) Kind regards -- Let's not be too rough on our own ignorance; it's what makes America great! ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqnqtg2wypyw7wgtv92c4rvh10j+c9d_t+j1wxzqdjj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 3 December 2014 at 01:36, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 12/02/2014 at 07:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 18:05, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the system is running. It will soon be possible to choose before installation. And always a reboot is (I presume this was truncated somehow?) Yes, sorry. Flat battery - resumed from Draft and missed that. Should have been:- And always a reboot is necessary after installation - so a preseed/late_command will allow you to boot for the first time into non-systemd system. preseed/late_command=in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core A simple bash script makes rebuilding an install CD to include that preseed parameter a simple - quick process for those that want to use the GUI install option. Do you have a citation for this? I'm glad you asked. No - I presumed that amongst the lots of experts so opposed to the late-command option, at least one of them would apply Kenshi's patch (which apparently works) to d-i. Was my mistake an assumption that any of them would do more than demand? (have any of them even, including one of the noisier posters on this list who commented in that thread, done any of the bug-tested he widely requested?) snipped the decision was made that no, it won't be touched for jessie which sounds to me as if such a change is not going to happen soon. That I strongly suspect is correct - but not for the same reasons. snipped Kind regards -- Being cynical is the only way to deal with modern civilization — you can't just swallow it whole ~ Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQMVCimPeA13jDxJ3X�gtlmzzegsyzb4tc+8cyawy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: libc6-i386 vs libc6:i386 (for vpn client)
On 1 December 2014 at 23:15, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 28 nov 14, 12:50:56, Ross Boylan wrote:
Judging from https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO, which doesn't
seem current but is all I could find, if I'm on the amd64 architecture
and want to support i386 I should expect to get packages like
libc6:i386. There are a number of other packages that seem to have
versions for 32 bit without needing to specify an architecture suffix,
e.g. lib32z1 (32 bit version of zlib1g I think).
Further, I have those packages though I don't think I installed them
explicitly.
If I'm not mistaken such packages will be disappearing in the future,
don't concern yourself too much with them.
Finally, I have not issued the command
dpkg --add-architecture i386
though the wiki made it sound as if I would need to to get 32 bit libs.
Could anyone explain what is going on and what I need to do so I can
run a 32 bit app? I'm trying to install Juniper Networks proprietary
client, which includes a 32 bit library binary without the source.
The basic steps to install a proprietary 32 bit application on an amd64
install would be
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update
dpkg -i proprietary.deb
.deb... ?
Ross - are you trying to install JN Net Connect Java client for SA?
If so - Andrei's suggestions are correct, additionally:-
;making sure you install the 64-bit JRE (either Open or Oracle)
;likewise Iceweasel and it's Java
;you'll need ia32-libs and (the 32-bit versions of) libxtst6 libxi6
libstdc++6 libxext6 libxrender1 lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 lib32bz2-1.0
;running:-
# cp /etc/resolv.conf{,.bak}
before connecting to keep you original settings
# if dpkg complains about missing dependencies
apt-get install -f # short for --fix-broken
Kind regards,
Andrei
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Fwd: libc6-i386 vs libc6:i386 (for vpn client)
Apologies - accidentally sent to Ross only -- Forwarded message -- From: Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com Date: 2 December 2014 at 08:07 Subject: Re: libc6-i386 vs libc6:i386 (for vpn client) To: Ross Boylan rossboy...@stanfordalumni.org On 2 December 2014 at 06:41, Ross Boylan rossboy...@stanfordalumni.org wrote: Thanks Andrei, Scott and Curt for your help. I was only expecting help on the general 32/64 bit issues, but since you asked, here are some details about my particular goal. I am trying to install Juniper's client 8.0 software from an rpm; apparently they don't have a deb (there is a deb for the 7.x). Yes. The 7.3 for Ubuntu should work for you. If you mentioned your Debian release I missed it. Ideally I would skip the GUI, though I'm not sure if that's possible. The usual process here is to get a secure (but non-VPN) connection through a GUI (i.e., a browser) and then launch the java network connect app. It downloads some binaries, some of which can be invoked independently of the web interface. Connecting directly to our site gets the 7.1 client because the server is old. According to Juniper, only 7.3 and up work with 64 bit (in the rather weak sense that it can be made to work--they only distribute 32 bit clients). So connect to our site and download the java app does not seem viable (and doesn't work, though I may still lack some of the 32 bit pieces). Juniper tech support says the 8.x client should work with the 7.x server. Yes. 2 outstanding issues are whether I should use 32 or 64 bit java--the (64 bit) instructions for 8.x say to used icedtea and don't mention the 32 bit version As noted in my previous post:- Use the 64-bit java, likewise the 64-bit icedtea for 64-bit Iceweasel You may find madscientist's msjnc script useful, I haven't used it[*1] but it has been recommended by colleagues:- http://mad-scientist.net/welcome-to-the-lab/juniper-network-connect-vpn/ Most recent Juniper guide for 64-bit is here:- http://kb.juniper.net/InfoCenter/index?page=contentid=KB25230 --and what I should use for a certificate file. Go to the VPN signin page and download the CAfile (DER format) and certfile from there - certificate information, export certificate. The realm will be shown on the same page [*1]I run a 32-bit system as I use nothing that has sufficient gains from 64-bit to overcome the slight speed disadvantage, so it just works for me, and I only have to connect to very recent Junos Pulse Appliances (now PulseSecure). Ross Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqmmww5tniphrx9fkdpzho+d-kxmfaxx3xd65ugsbgl...@mail.gmail.com
Re: libc6-i386 vs libc6:i386 (for vpn client)
On 2 December 2014 at 04:31, Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: On 2014-12-01, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: .deb... ? Ross - are you trying to install JN Net Connect Java client for SA? I thought he was trying to install this: http://www.scc.kit.edu/scc/net/juniper-vpn/linux/ Install or follow guide? (you generally install from the Junos appliance) It's a guide on how to install the client to connect to (an old?) SA series VPN at kit.edu. Apologies if you knew that already and it just got lost in the translation to English. Apropos of little. The Windoof client is different to the Linux client. The latter are just a packaged .jar Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQN27qJK8De5Nq=1uxuvkgaosxmzfefav7j1twzyqmr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: I fear that once If? systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian ? Perl might be, but it seems a little hyperbolic to say systemd is (anymore then dev/devfs/Xfree-86/OpenOffice was). as the default init more distros will follow suit, Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of those that don't. and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce have their freedom of choice constrained by users. I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to do anything other than destroy, given that the user has a choice. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Depends on what you mean by distros of merit. Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros besides Jessie were using systemd as the default: Depends on what 'you' call *default*. It implies a choice - as opposed to *mandatory*. More importantly it depends on whether using default as a measure of support for your argument(?) is relevant. Fedora 15, RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server. Just read today OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too. Haven't checked. So, 9 total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list. Assuming your best intentions - that you meant supported, it's a *much* longer list. A shorter list is those distributions that *do not* include systemd. I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian. Debuan, I think it's called. A novel fork in that it appears to focus more on raising money than producing code, and that it's developers are anonymous. An interesting concept for a FOSS project. Aside from those peculiarities (and the hype associated with it) perhaps it will turn out to be a more recent version of xwin? (apologies to Keith Packard if the comparison is unjustified). snipped I tend to agree with Theodore Ts'o[*1] in that systemd is a worthy project designed to fix the failings and overcome the limitations of sysinitv, and that it 'might' be moving too fast. In that light I applaud the Debian decision to make it the *default*[*2] in Jessie so that it's failings can be exposed to a wider audience for the purposes of assessment and improvement. [*1] and Linux Torvalds, (oft misquoted) http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65402-torvalds-says-he-has-no-strong-opinions-on-systemd [*2] while maintaining support for alternative inits where individual developer's and packager's time constraints/motivations allow. Hopefully returning the list to it's correct discussions Yours in Debian solidarity -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqn6dz1f1ehspx_kr+hb0n5ucn0sag_p5osp9r-svx5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: XDG Standard is not evil
On 2 December 2014 at 11:49, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Having just waded through this thread, My sincere sympathies. and then reading the standard itself, Based on what you are quoting - that's the Base Directory Specification, which is part of the XDG Standards I can only conclude that it may not be evil but it is a horribly written standard. Lacking in comprehensive detail specifications? To start with, there's absolutely no context: Base Directory Specification The introduction reads, simply Various specifications specify files and file formats. This specification defines where these files should be looked for by defining one or more base directories relative to which files should be located. Nothing about where the standard applies, what kinds of files are being talked about, I believe the very next section entitled Basics provides an overview that covers those items. http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ar01s02.html on what kinds of systems. Any system/application that chooses to adopt it. In terms of OS, it's used on Linux, Mac (Apple?), and Windows. Nothing about what the standard is to be used for. a set of common interfaces for desktop environments https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Initiatives/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders?action=showredirect=GnomeGoals%2FXDGConfigFolders Nothing about who maintains the standard, Waldo Bastian, Ryan Lortie, and Lennart Poettering are credited on the page you referenced, anyone can contribute - simply join the mailing lists, which is all development is done:- http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg the process by which it is maintained and updated, See above. where to find the latest version. I found them here:- http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ I don't know where you read your version. No references. The lack of any of this, makes the rest of it essentially useless. If you expect a simple guide to the standard to include all of those points - then you are correct. Definitely agreed that what you've referenced is lacking in comprehensive detail, especially the sort I'd expect to see in an ISO standard. But then Freedesktop.org standards are not formal standards. And unless you follow the mailing lists, and have followed the history of X Desktop Group, it's very hard to understand. For Linux operating system standards, please see the Linux Standard Base project. freedesktop.org is loosely affiliated with the Free Standards Group; the FSG is one group that does de jure standards for free software. The X.Org Foundation and the IETF are other groups that do *formal* standards. Unlike these groups, freedesktop.org is just a collaboration zone where ideas and code can be tossed around, and de facto specifications encouraged. Perhaps that's a difficulty inherent with a informal standard (informal standards[*1]) built on concepts? Some confusion lies in people confusing xdg-utils[*1] compliance and the concepts they (the tools) are based (whacky, and unlikely, but it is possible that some is the result of reaction to anything with Lennart's name in it). [*1] see /usr/share/doc/xdg-utils/README Miles Fidelman snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQOowPHS_QkJta-bn8dg897Tr4wspw=arzmr_wy1tyq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: XDG Standard is not evil
On 2 December 2014 at 15:24, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Scott Ferguson wrote: On 2 December 2014 at 11:49, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Having just waded through this thread, My sincere sympathies. and then reading the standard itself, Based on what you are quoting - that's the Base Directory Specification, which is part of the XDG Standards I can only conclude that it may not be evil but it is a horribly written standard. Lacking in comprehensive detail specifications? To start with, there's absolutely no context: Base Directory Specification The introduction reads, simply Various specifications specify files and file formats. This specification defines where these files should be looked for by defining one or more base directories relative to which files should be located. Nothing about where the standard applies, Base Directory Specification, logically, precedes the Introduction. By doing so it frames the documents i.e. provides context. what kinds of files are being talked about, I believe the very next section entitled Basics provides an overview that covers those items. http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ar01s02.html No... it lists a collection of concepts, again, with no context. Does it not mention files? Please try and interleave your responses below the point you are replying to - this is not the Gish Gallop mailing list. Somehow (from XDG) The XDG Base Directory Specification is based on the following concepts: * There is a single base directory relative to which user-specific data files should be written. This directory is defined by the environment variable |$XDG_DATA_HOME|. * etc. Is NOT context. Nor did I say it was. I said, and the post remains unchanged - that Base Directory is the context. In contrast to, to pick a non-random example, the Linux Standard Base Which demonstrates only that you ignored, or are unable to understand the following:- snipped on what kinds of systems. Any system/application that chooses to adopt it. In terms of OS, it's used on Linux, Mac (Apple?), and Windows. Nothing about what the standard is to be used for. a set of common interfaces for desktop environments https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Initiatives/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders?action=showredirect=GnomeGoals%2FXDGConfigFolders Wow a web page, buried way deep inside a specific project's web site, not referenced in the standard itself - does not a standard make. Maybe, just maybe a design document. Is that a novel way of saying Thanks Scott for doing my homework for me? Nothing about who maintains the standard, Waldo Bastian, Ryan Lortie, and Lennart Poettering are credited on the page you referenced, anyone can contribute - simply join the mailing lists, which is all development is done:- http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg Again, not a standard. Do you not understand your own comment that I was replying to Nothing about who maintains the standard, - or are you being deliberately obtuse, or perhaps, and I hope not - trolling? the process by which it is maintained and updated, See above. where to find the latest version. I found them here:- http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ I don't know where you read your version. Again, not stated anywhere in the standard. I neither said nor implied that it was - nor that it *should* be. I was simply responding to your comment with a relevance. It's the basis of effective communication. Do try it. No references. The lack of any of this, makes the rest of it essentially useless. If you expect a simple guide to the standard to include all of those points - then you are correct. Definitely agreed that what you've referenced is lacking in comprehensive detail, especially the sort I'd expect to see in an ISO standard. But then Freedesktop.org standards are not formal standards. And unless you follow the mailing lists, and have followed the history of X Desktop Group, it's very hard to understand. Hence, my point. It's somewhat pretentious to call it a standard, I fear, for lack of a better metaphor - you are trying to make a fish out of a hat. I took the time to read and consider what I was replying to - it would be polite if you could reciprocate. The XDG Base Directory standard is a defacto, informal standard. and by any measure of a well written, well coordinated standards document - it simply is horrendous. And their documents can legitimately be considered both standards, and well written. *Formal standards* As is their purpose - something you seem prepared to put an inordinate amount of effort into *not* recognizing (which the paragraph I quoted above succinctly states), whilst adding considerable noise to the signal. Unlike these groups, freedesktop.org is just a collaboration zone where ideas and code
Re: fsck fails with partition in use error after partition umount'ed
On 30 November 2014 at 23:49, Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com wrote: On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 06:09:38PM +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 30 November 2014 at 17:47, Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com wrote: I notice that /dev/sdb1, an ext4 partition on a USB drive has remounted read-only. I try umount /dev/sdb1 then fsck /dev/sdb1 fsck from util-linux 2.25.2 e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014) /dev/sdb1 is in use. e2fsck: Cannot continue, aborting. Do you still get that if you use:- umount -vl /dev/sdb1 or:- umount -vr /dev/sdb1 Is there a way that a volume can be in use without being mounted? Yes. If you have disk errors (not data, disk). It'll be prominent in your logs (if it's a SATA grep for ATA). For your sake I hope I'm wrong or that it's just a loose connection. Nothing obvious in dmesg, which seems like the only relevant log with recent entries. syslog, kern.log, auth.log and debug show no changes since June. You may find that the device had problems during boot, and the fsck is 'trying' to fix them - but is unable to access the disk. For months, maybe longer, I've had irregularities with USB drives. When mounted for a long time, I will get errors. It's a pain if nothing shows in the logs. udisks --monitor or udisks --monitor-detail 'might' give you something useful, as may udevadm monitor --kernel --udev --property --subsystem-match=usb (after enabling debug with udevadm control --log-priority=debug) In this situation, I expect that if I unmount the drive, I should be able to run fsck, not have to reboot because some reference in the kernel/driver/fs code says the unmounted drive is still in use. Agreed. What did lsof and ps aux show? (any thing useful?) You can try (as root) instead of rebooting:- udisk --umount $slice If that works - try enabling udev debugging:- udevadm control --log-priority=debug In one terminal session run:- udisks --monitor And in another run:- udevadm monitor --kernel --udev --property --subsystem-match=usb I'd dig through lsof and ps first to 'try' and narrow down to cause. Regards, Joel snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqoj37vudxr7q+k5vcmwt_i8unsyddjq_nerthd0em0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
On 29 November 2014 at 17:06, Rick Macdonald rickm...@shaw.ca wrote:
On 28/11/14 05:21 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 28 November 2014 at 16:08, Rick Macdonald rickm...@shaw.ca wrote:
On 25/11/14 08:46 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snipped
Hey, thanks for all this!
No worries. Thanks for the feedback.
I created a thumb drive for testing. Using the actual drive takes too long,
as the cable is awkward, the drive spins up and down, etc.
I added my uid/gid to the rule for jollies, so it mounts as me instead of
root.
I'm uncertain of the advantage if you are a member of user. You can
use the USER tag in the rule to run commands as someone other than
root.
Plex should work in either case with wide-open 777 mode.
Agreed
ACTION==add, PROGRAM==/sbin/blkid -o value -s TYPE /dev/%k,
RESULT==ntfs,
ENV{mount_options}=%E{mount_options},utf8,uid=1000,gid=1000,umask=000
Oddly uid=N and gid=N in the ntfs-3g man (rather than uid= and
gid=) I'm not sure if that's why mount | grep $SomeNTFSSlice
reports single digit uid and gid [puzzled]
There was a problem in the dir_name,
Could you expand on that?
so I changed these two lines:
#ACTION==add, PROGRAM==/sbin/blkid -o value -s TYPE %E{device},
RESULT==ntfs,
ENV{mount_options}=%E{mount_options},utf8,gid=100,umask=002
ACTION==add, PROGRAM==/sbin/blkid -o value -s TYPE /dev/%k,
RESULT==ntfs,
ENV{mount_options}=%E{mount_options},utf8,gid=100,umask=002
What do you get from mount -L | grep Win?
# Get label if present, otherwise assign one
#PROGRAM==/sbin/blkid -o value -s LABEL %E{device}, ENV{dir_name}=%c
PROGRAM==/sbin/blkid -o value -s LABEL /dev/%k, ENV{dir_name}=%c
When I unmount the drive, the directory is not deleted. The
owner/permissions change from me/777 to root/755. I see you have commands
for umount and rmdir (Clean up after removal), but I'm not sure what is
meant to kick those off.
That /media/$NFTSSliceLABEL dir will remain. That the notoriously
fickle NTFS 'might' be damaged if the mounted NTFS device is suddenly
removed (more likely you might just get into a futile tug-of-war).
Belt and suspenders?
I pulled out the drive without umounting first, not
that I think you had that in mind, but that didn't change the behaviour
(much).
Did a program have access to that file system at the time?
It seems that only root can umount the drive, but I've seen mention of that
for NTFS, or maybe it was udisks in general?
NTFS-3G. After digging through policy kit it 'seems' if a non-root
user who is not a member of the disk group wants to umount NTFS they
need to recompile ntfs-3g with build-in FUSE and then setuid the
resulting binary.
Almost there!
Lots of room for improvement - if I had time I'd refine the rule to
*only* apply to a unique NTFS slice, and figure out a way so that the
slice icon that appears on XFCE desktop and in the sidebar of Thunar
*is* the mounted NTFS slice.
An alternative approach to solving the above two niggles would be to
hide the dysfunctional icons, and automagically (using udev) add an
icon to the desktop - which when clicked would umount the (WinBackup)
slice (gksudo or similar - if you use sudo that wouldn't be
necessary).
Regards,
Rick
Kind regards
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Re: Image cloning software
On 30 November 2014 at 04:39, Miroslav Skoric sko...@eunet.rs wrote: Is there a good software for Debian 7.7 as well as for Debian 6.10 that is capable to produce a multi DVD/CD image of a working system, in a way that such image can be used later as a DVD/CD installation media for 'cloning' on the other comps (or on itself, in case of an irreparable failure of a working machine)? Thanks. The Live-CD project? Packages are in the Debian repositories:- http://mklivecd.sourceforge.net/ http://live.debian.net/ I haven't used it in recent years, but I suspect with some tinkering it could do what you want - rescue cd, with a backup of your customisations, configurations, and home, an archive of main packages (space providing), and a copy of dpkg --get-selections selection which could be scripted to rebuild and/or clone a box. aptoncd AFAIK not in the Debian repositories - but you could try mkCDrec:- http://mkcdrec.sourceforge.net/ ...and it's successor - http://relax-and-recover.org/ There is also Debian-based Live CD, it's name escapes me, which is kind-of Norton Ghost and it includes the ability to clone to DVD. A simple clone (dd) would limit you to reinstalls on disks the same size or larger - whereas cp (with the appropriate switches) will, in most cases, work fine - if you first partition and format the new disk. You'd need to change the UUIDs in GRUB. I've used that method and dpkg --set-selections selections and customised /etc/skel to do what you describe but only from disks not optical media. A little bash scripting and bashburn or similar should make it possible to put that onto optical media. Start the restore/clone process with a tiny rescue cd booted toram? Generally the process you describe is done with something like puppet/chef etc, or preseeding PXE installs, on a larger scale (SOE deployment). M. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQO6pTchy1JHiLOQ20e=bad7chg3cn+yr0pfehpxpb6...@mail.gmail.com
Re: clamav-daemon broken after latest upgrade
On 30 November 2014 at 08:59, Robert S robert.spam.me.sensel...@gmail.com wrote: I'm running a stock-standard installation of debian (7.7). I do regular security updates. snipped # dpkg-reconfigure clamav-daemon /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: clamav-daemon is broken or not fully installed # apt-get upgrade gives me The following packages have been kept back: clamav clamav-freshclam clamav-milter libclamav6 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded. How can I resolve this? I've tried most of the usual tricks. Including apt-get -s dist-upgrade | less?? If not - try it, and it looks OK run it for real:- apt-get dist-upgrade - which will install the packages that have been held back. I suspect that will fix the problem. If that doesn't look like fixing your problem, then look at:- apt-get -sf install | less - which will probably offer to remove the clamav packages that are not fully-installed. snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqn7zmcsgep0gxk_t4g3bd+k-hhn31grf61bisswqrj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
On 30 November 2014 at 09:37, Marc Shapiro marcns...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/26/2014 01:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: 'Now' I regret not keeping the notes when I setup an iPhone rule for someone last year! :/ This time I will. I still get no device under /dev when I plug in the iPod, but ifuse does seem to be successfully mounting the device. 'Should' be a /media/i$Something directory created. All I know about ifuse is what I've read in the man page:- http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ifuseapropos=0sektion=0manpath=Debian+7.0+wheezyformat=htmllocale=en Is their an info page for ifuse? What does man -k ifuse give? The --debug option may provide more useful information I can traverse the fs and ls the files just fine. Unfortunately, rhythmbox and gtkpod now see the device, but they both insist that it is uninitialized and want to initialize it. Since it *has* been initialized and used for several months, this would be a *Bad Thing*. Unfortunately, that's only to be expected from Apple... From what I am seeing when I google the error it seems that the problem lies with the fact that Apple keeps changing the database format to make sure that you have to use iTunes and that the libimobiledevice2 that is in Wheezy is still using a much older version of the database. Yes - one work-around (a bit like trimming your toes so you can fit into cool shoes too small for your feet) is to use a udev rule to launch a VirtualBox Windoof machine. The VM can be launched in seamless mode and iTunes can be automagically be started. That will require waiting a few minutes for iTunes to become available, but with USB pass-though, it will allow you to access the full functionality of your Apple device from your Debian device. I'm not sure if libimobiledevice4 (in Jessie and Sid) is current enough, or if I need to wait for libimobiledevice5, which is in Experimental). There is nothing in Wheezy-Backports for the library. You 'might' be able to simply install the Testing/Unstable/Experimental version - backports are not always necessary to have the latest version of a Debian package. Looking at the dependencies and their minimum versions will tell you. Am I interpreting this correctly, or am I way off base? Seems correct to me. Thank you for the information. Marc Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqo+yyzq3tmmz5jcqsvrr6k3vzvccvjuts_upc5h3pb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Image cloning software
On 30 November 2014 at 10:53, Catalin Soare lolinux.so...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 30, 2014 1:26 AM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 November 2014 at 04:39, Miroslav Skoric sko...@eunet.rs wrote: Is there a good software for Debian 7.7 as well as for Debian 6.10 that... snipped There is also Debian-based Live CD, it's name escapes me, which... snipped Clonezilla? That's the one I was trying to wat-ya-ma-call-it! Thank you Catalin. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqn_pvmsdqqvrvbuyvpt6mzakgpmmiefzkycgmqpyhn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Creating a peculiar Live-CD
On 30 November 2014 at 02:30, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Scott Ferguson wrote: On 29 November 2014 at 08:17, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: On 11/28/14, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: snipped chuckle I've just proved ( again ;/ ) that my writing lacks clarity. It's hard to describe a custom live CD in a single, small post. Not really. I did it in a single sentence - see 3rd sentence down. How you want to achieve something?? Not what (objectives) - which you have expanded on in a subsequent reply to Curt. I'm still not clear on why. This may be an xy problem - certainly based on the expanded objectives placing a script in /etc/rc.local to do what you describe is not the solution - nor is placing it in init. I believe Curt has the right idea - you want a locked-down desktop (limits user action, wipes previous session). Depending on what your objectives are (as opposed to how I want to do what I don't know how to do) there are two approaches:- *1*. If you do *not* control the hardware the end-user will run the CD on - Build a Live-CD (see the debian packages of the same name). Modify the live CD to install the packages you want the user to have. lock the permission on any configuration files in their home directory you don't want them to be able to change. Be sure to lock down applications that allow extension/plugin additions (i.e. Iceweasel). Modify the logout button so that only two choices are possible - halt, and lock screen. A Live CD will eject during the shutdown process (you might find man halt informative). Setup autologin without password for a single user. e.g. student Use sudo to limit that users permissions. Setup ssh for remote administration. Configure the networking defaults. That's it (apart from documentation and testing, and internet access control which I'll cover later). Every time the users boots from the CD they are automagically logged into a pristine desktop with limited applications and rights. They can install, change, or go/save/browse nowhere, that you haven't allowed. When they shutdown the CD ejects and the box is powered off. *2.* If you do control the hardware - why bother with the CD? Just follow the same steps as *1.* with the additional steps of locking down GRUB and setting boot delay to 1, copying the modifications (locked permissions and customisation) to /etc/skel, and adding a script to the shutdown services that runs deluser --remove-all-records student. The added advantage is that it'll be easier to update (and if you are allowing internet access you need to apply updates - *even* if you use the Live CD option). Network/Internet restriction policy. If you have a LAN that these users will be connected to - the best option IMO is to restrict browing at the access point using white lists (or blacklists if you enjoy playing pop-a-mole). Dans Guardian (for squid) is ideal. If that's not possible and you need to apply internet access control at the local box level (LiveCD or HDD) the simplest approach for an unskilled admin is to install either:- ;Parental Control GUI (which uses tinyproxy and Dans Guardian) https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol/ ;WebCleaner http://webcleaner.sourceforge.net/ ;privoxy (it's in the Debian repository). snipped Dependant on what you mean by anything else... find out where anything else is triggered and remove the trigger. Ugh ;/ That's shutting the barn door Don't install door in first place. I have no idea what you are trying to say there. Could you expand on that please. snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqpr6rn0noc-7qzeeztxpy+esbbmazemk+ngu7pftvo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: fsck fails with partition in use error after partition umount'ed
On 30 November 2014 at 17:47, Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com wrote: I notice that /dev/sdb1, an ext4 partition on a USB drive has remounted read-only. I try umount /dev/sdb1 then fsck /dev/sdb1 fsck from util-linux 2.25.2 e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014) /dev/sdb1 is in use. e2fsck: Cannot continue, aborting. Is there a way that a volume can be in use without being mounted? Yes. If you have disk errors (not data, disk). It'll be prominent in your logs (if it's a SATA grep for ATA). For your sake I hope I'm wrong or that it's just a loose connection. You may find that the device had problems during boot, and the fsck is 'trying' to fix them - but is unable to access the disk. snipped The underlying issue is that the driver detects an I/O error. See comment above. Regards, Joel -- Joel Roth Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqo8c16y+_cfshrzuc8hjyx59cf50ed8dyykmzvagwr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Creating a peculiar Live-CD
On 29 November 2014 at 08:17, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: On 11/28/14, Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: snipped chuckle I've just proved ( again ;/ ) that my writing lacks clarity. It's hard to describe a custom live CD in a single, small post. The eject command indeed works as expected. The BIOS on my machines are set to automatically boot from any CD in the tray. My question was creating a Live-CD to only execute a specific script when booted and prevent anything else from being executed. Put the script in /etc/rc.local? Create a user that is autologged-in put the script in their autorun? Dependant on what you mean by anything else... find out where anything else is triggered and remove the trigger. If helps I've previously created a number of different auto USB Flash key builds that were designed to be used as plug, power-on, do a certain job automagically tools without user intervention. Some of the processes 'might' be useful for what it 'sounds' like you want to do. snipped I hope that helps a little. Perhaps if you gave more details of all that you want to do. e.g. a flow chart, what will this script do? Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMt2cQOniDtfM9L7-_KmkL16hvr8S6tC9SFwNYQhTXew0=q...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 29 November 2014 at 07:05, lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote: Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com writes: snipped On 22/11/14 20:50, lee wrote: Didier, you have *totally* missed the OPs point. BTW, since you assume that no systemd takeover Hyperbole much? ? the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device what has been the outcome of the GR to support multiple init systems? It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Huh? Does that mean that the users are left to deal themselves with the problems that could arise from this? Other than that, the OP has a good point. I found that every time something is related to the freedesktop stuff, Freedesktop just provides hosting. Substitute Sourceforge for Freedesktop and see how well your theory flies. freedesktop.org is open source / open discussion software projects working on interoperability and shared technology for X Window System desktops. The most famous X desktops are GNOME and KDE, but developers working on any Linux/UNIX GUI technology are welcome to participate.[1] How does that demonstrate that the systemd project is not hosted by freedesktop.org? Did your lips get sore or did you not quote the very next paragraph for other reasons? quote Software freedesktop.org hosts any on-topic software projects/quote [1]: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ it's not understandable at all because the documentation utterly sucks or doesn't even exist. It's an entirely dead end. Do we really need or want that? If we need it, what for? If we want it, wouldn't we be much better off using Windows? Please replace we with I - it gives the misleading impression you speak for the vast majority when you only speak for yourself. Please learn to read and to understand what you're reading, and you may find that I was asking questions. You could learn a lot about yourself by eating your own dog food. To draw a map for you, try replacing we with users. Save your crayons. I'm a Debian user. I wouldn't be better off using Windows. You speak only for your self, not everybody (or even a significant majority) and it would be presumptuous to believe otherwise don't you think? Note that opposition to *the choice* of using systemd 'probably' constitutes less than 1% of users. Noise, repetition, and FUD doesn't:- ;increase that percentage ;give you credibility ;justify your bullying and works against those that have genuine problems with systemd. And why do you mention this here? To provide constructive advice on how to get along with a *community*. Not in the expectation that everyone cares. Community includes all sorts, including minorities that many don't want to embrace. snipped The appropriate, polite way to deal with things you don't like - is speak *once* and state your case fully when you do. It's healthy to express concerns - it's unhealthy, to all, when you flood forums with them. The means justifies the ends - and bullying doesn't end well. snipped example of how not to act Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/camt2cqnxl8vdf2dbbu7opedzgaor4-bsn38zuuks08qdghi...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
My apologies for the delay in replying. On 28 November 2014 at 16:08, Rick Macdonald rickm...@shaw.ca wrote: On 26/11/14 04:20 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 27/11/14 06:32, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 26/11/14 08:24 AM, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 26/11/14 12:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 16:14, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 25/11/14 08:46 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snipped I do have an udev rule (see attached and cp it to /etc/udev/rules.d) that will automagically mount a NTFS formatted slice on an external drive that has the LABEL WinBackup to /media/WinBackup, that uses mount options that allow a user to write to it, and 'should' work for Plex. https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200288606-Mounting-NTFS-Drives-on-Linux I have tested this using an USB Flash Drive with a single slice formatted as NTFS, with the LABEL WinBackup. Thunar Vol Man is set to automatically mount external drives (though it may be redundant). $ groups scott cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev users fuse netdev $ mount -l | grep Win /dev/sdb1 on /media/WinBackup type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blksize=4096) [WinBackup] $ grep ^user /etc/fuse.conf user_allow_other It's a far from perfect udev rule, but:- ;regrettably I'm out of time for the moment (apologies to the poster waiting for assistance with Apple, resuming that is next on my to-do) ;I can't work out how to get around the limitations of NTFS support (you could try Tuxera, but I suspect they work within the limitations set by MS) ;I don't understand how Thunar populates the sidebar, and XFCE the desktop, with the link to the disk LABEL despite digging through 860 results from a find for WinBackup. Hopefully someone will post a solution for me. With respect to your Post's Subject - I don't know. They are limited by /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/25-ntfs-3g-policy.fdi, which 'seems' to be limited by the option in the ntfs-3g binary. I don't like the idea of recompiling it and running it setuid (the dangers of that with a Windows file system seem great). I suspect it's an xy problem. Do let me know if the default's in the rule (attached) are insufficient for Plex[*1]. $ mkdir /media/WinBackup/Test;echo This is a test /media/WinBackup/Test/test;ls -lR /media/WinBackup /media/WinBackup: total 0 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 144 Nov 29 11:17 Test /media/WinBackup/Test: total 1 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Nov 29 11:17 test [*1] I can make some modifications to permissions in the rule (default mount options, user command is run as, commands that are run). Let me know how it goes. Hope this makes sense, sorry if I've missed posts - I can't get at my usual work machine remotely at present and are reduced to using the Gmail web interface (sob). Kind regards 11-winbackup-auto-mount.rules Description: Binary data
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
snipped
Quick comment (I will get back to this later today or early tomorrow):-
grep ntfs /lib/udev/rules.d/*.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/80-udisks.rules:ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}==ntfs|vfat, \
If this does control the effect you note, (which is easy to determine),
then it's simple to create a rule based on it
(/etc/udev.d/$something.rule) that will treat your WinBackup disk
differently
I grabbed the src for udisks, but didn't get very far. It has code that
checks fstab and uses its entries if found, but that code isn't used. It
always makes a call to udev_glib instead.
The default settings for external drives is in /lib, offhand I can't
remember where filetypes is taken from (somewhere in /etc ?). Take a
look at udisks-doc if you're interested. Most of udisks, as you've
discovered, is binary.
Another very quick comment as I haven't had a chance to do much Debian
User stuff lately (will get back to this and an Apple udev rule this
evening).
The udisk rule I pointed out above - is fine as it is, it hides
disk/slices that would normally need to be hidden.
I need to finish testing a custom udisks rule for you that changes the
default naming of new devices that have an ntfs file system to
/dev/$Label and a udev rule that runs fuser to automount the drive (to
/media/$Label. It can be done with just udev, but it's a crude hack
(doesn't cleanly umount, creates incrementing /media/usbN). Then you
should get the Thunar support you want for Plex.
Regards,
Rick
Thanks for your patience.
Kind regards
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Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
'Now' I regret not keeping the notes when I setup an iPhone rule for someone last year! :/ This time I will. On 26/11/14 14:04, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 11/24/2014 02:39 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Thanks for the replies. On 24/11/14 05:12, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 11/23/2014 12:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Briefly as it's been 40 degrees Celsius here and I've been outside working all day (almost beer o'clock) On 23/11/14 18:27, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 11/22/2014 04:09 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 23/11/14 09:50, Marc Shapiro wrote: My daughter has recently purchased an iPod Touch and would like to be able to maintain it from our linux box running Wheezy. snipped I will try the udevadm monitor --property command once I have the device available again. Marc This is the result of plugging the device in while running udevadm monitor --property, waiting a minute or so, and then unplugging the device: Did you miss something? That appears to be just the tail end of the output? Make sure you have udevadm running *before* you plug the device in. My apologies if I didn't make that clear earlier. UDEV [275538.578940] remove Says that udevadmn detect a device being removed... I don't understand how it can detect a removal, without previously having detected an addition. And addition (plugging the device in) is a block that begins with ([nn:nn] is time of event) this:- UDEV [nn:nn] add /devices/pci:00/:00:16.2/usb4/4-4/4-4.4/4-4.4:4.2 (usb) ACTION=remove DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:16.2/usb4/4-4/4-4.4/4-4.4:4.2 DEVTYPE=usb_interface INTERFACE=255/253/1 MODALIAS=usb:v05ACp12AAd0510dc00dsc00dp00icFFiscFDip01in02 PRODUCT=5ac/12aa/510 SEQNUM=1785 SUBSYSTEM=usb TYPE=0/0/0 UDEV_LOG=7 USEC_INITIALIZED=275538570017 UDEV [275538.584890] remove /devices/pci:00/:00:16.2/usb4/4-4/4-4.4 (usb) ACTION=remove BUSNUM=004 COLORD_DEVICE=1 COLORD_KIND=camera DEVNAME=/dev/bus/usb/004/019 there's the device DEVNUM=019 DEVPATH=/devices/pci:00/:00:16.2/usb4/4-4/4-4.4 DEVTYPE=usb_device GPHOTO2_DRIVER=PTP looks like gphoto2 (a GNOME app?) released it, note that COLORD_KIND 'had' recognised the device as a camera. Try plugging the device back in and opening gPhoto (assuming go do indeed have it installed. ID_BUS=usb ID_GPHOTO2=1 ID_MODEL=iPod ID_MODEL_ENC=iPod ID_MODEL_ID=12aa ID_REVISION=0510 ID_SERIAL=Apple_Inc._iPod_ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9 ID_SERIAL_SHORT=ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9 ID_USB_INTERFACES=:060101:010100:010200:03:fffe02:fffd01: ID_VENDOR=Apple_Inc. ID_VENDOR_ENC=Apple\x20Inc. ID_VENDOR_ID=05ac MAJOR=189 MINOR=402 PRODUCT=5ac/12aa/510 SEQNUM=1786 SUBSYSTEM=usb That may be the fail in the speculative udev rule I supplied in an earlier post. But I'll wait until I hear about gPhoto and look at the udevadm monitor results showing the device being added before changing that rule (I'm still concerned about battling with GNOME's vfs). TAGS=:udev-acl: TYPE=0/0/0 UDEV_LOG=7 USBMUX_SUPPORTED=1 USEC_INITIALIZED=275471311002 It's mostly Greek to me, but if it gives you any hints I will be glad to hear it. Please see if you can grab the start of udevadm output. As a user:- udevadm monitor --udev ~/monitor_output_for_scott after a minute remove the device, use Ctrl+C to stop udevadm, then attach ~/monitor_output_for_scott to your reply (if it's not empty). Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547597c8.7040...@gmail.com
Re: disk group (was ... Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?)
On 26/11/14 21:27, Chris Bannister wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 02:46:24PM +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: In which case I'd recommend:- *1.* uncommenting the user_allow_other line in /etc/fuse.conf *2.* changing the fstab line to:- LABEL=WinBackup /media/WinBackup ntfs-3g uid=1000,gid=1000,permissions,auto,noatime 0 0 *3.* check that you are a member of the disk group (as a user:- groups |grep disk if you aren't, become one (as root)[*1]:- gpasswd -a $YourUsername disk [*1] groups won't show your changed group membership until after you've logged out, and logged back in. You can use the following if you need to double-check:- grep disk /etc/group I vaguely remember reading somewhere (may have been on this list) that putting anybody in the disk group is a big no no, I think it was to do with security. *It is* (shoot foot material). So is setting ntfs-3g setuid. Which is another practise used for what the OP wanted to achieve - in the way he wanted to do it. Like sudo no password it's a common practise - in hindsight I should have refused to help with that option (I did suggest udev) - and there are other ways. Whether I'm misremembering or not it would be nice to get it cleared up. You didn't misremember it - unfettered access to raw disks is not good practise. I was wrong. Following those instructions could have caused the OP to inadvertently break Windows. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5475bb29.6000...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 26/11/14 11:07, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 09:14, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 02:44:19AM +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: snipped Now, (I hope I'm not wrong on this.) It seems that the default GNOME installation required a graphics card with hardware acceleration. How stupid is that? It goes against the whole concept of a sensible default. It is our primary focus to build a modern operating environment, platform, and user experience. It doesn't make sense to target the hardware of the past. GNOME Shell uses relatively primitive 3D capabilities that have been available from essentially all computing devices made in the last four or five years. This includes most desktop and laptop computers, mobile devices, phones, tablets, and netbooks. Where there are exceptions, largely, there are bugs we can and should fix. So, the official plan is that people can still use the GNOME 2 shell with GNOME 3 applications and libraries, if necessary, but this is a transitional state, and to get the GNOME 3 experience, your computer needs hardware acceleration. snipped As does your question about a DE - (I decided to Google the answer). https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/FAQ#What_led_to_the_decision_to_make_3D_acceleration_a_requirement_for_GNOME_Shell.3F snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5475c1ac.20...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd (now moaning about GNOME-ing)
On 26/11/14 21:17, Erwan David wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 09:41:45AM CET, Curt cu...@free.fr said: On 2014-11-26, Erwan David er...@rail.eu.org wrote: So this means gnome now depends on non free drivers ? So in your opinion there are no open source hardware acceleration drivers in existence? I've seen apps complaining that nouveau or radeon were not accelerated. So maybe there are free accelerated drivers, but it seems to depend on the definition of accelerated, or it concerns not widely available cards. The magic of search. Very, very few can , even less make the 2 minute effort - (I've heard that's because it deprives them of the ability to spend years spreading their self-imposed ignorance. But 'I' would like to give them the opportunity to prove me wrong). https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/FAQ#GNOME_shell_does_not_seem_to_work_with_my_video_card._What_can_I_do.3F Some of the video cards that support FOSS 3D https://h-node.org/videocards/catalogue/en Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5475c317.6000...@gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
Thanks for replying. On 27/11/14 02:24, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 26/11/14 12:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 16:14, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 25/11/14 08:46 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Sorry, I don't know what DE means! Desktop Environment e.g. GNOME, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc KFCE. ?? https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=kfcesearchon=namessuite=allsection=all Gives me nothing :( Assuming the best intentions, and that KFCE isn't a typo - it still appears you are not running Debian, it's 'possible' you are using Mint - which is a Debian derivative. This the *Debian*-User list, the wrong place to expect support for anything other than Debian or Debian PureBlends for several[*1] reasons. Are you using Debian?? Scott, I really appreciate your time in helping me, and I realize it's not easy with my typo and perhaps mis-used terminology. As I hinted at, I've been running pure Debian for some 20 years. I forget how long I've been subscribed to this list, but it could be almost 20 years as well. That doesn't make me smart, just old (and happy with Debian). I did indeed mistype, and it should have been XFCE not KFCE. My original thought - then someone send me a link to the Mint desktop manager with the same name as the typo... I'm away from the box where I set-up a set environment, and the desk with my notes (this email client is being remotely accessed). I'll be back there later today. Note I put an NTFS file system on a USBKey with the same label as your setup, created a /media directory as you have - and was able to achieve what you wanted. I do want to provide you with a better way of reaching your desired outcome - without you (and userland processes) having raw disk access. Hopefully I'll get a chance to reply further later today. I've been googling and posting with the term auto-mount, but is this more properly hotplug? I'm not trying to get the USB drive to mount at boot; that I can do. It mounts when I plug the drive in to the running system, just not with the permissions that I need. I hope I didn't lead anyone to think I'm asking about a boot-time mount issue. Over the years the hot-plug system (if that's the name for it) seems to have changed a few times, and I admit I've never understood how hal, udev, etc worked/works. It's always worked to some extent, so I've never had to fuss with it. ntfs-3g's umask/dmask/fmask options all default to 0, but somebody is calling it with dmask=0077,fmask=0177. I haven't figured out the chain of commands involved. The ntfs-3g ref I (believe I) posted earlier on the thread is instructive (it's to upstream documentation). Regards, Rick Thanks for your patience - what you want is doable, just not, perhaps, exactly the way you want to do it. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54765d05.3080...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 27/11/14 01:30, Patrick Wiseman wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 26/11/14 12:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 26/11/2014 11:07 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: And *what do we know about the original customisation* that was made - which may have 'some' bearing on the badness of the upgrade/update defaults?? Oh, I get it, Patently, and demonstrably - you do *not*. Assuming your best intentions[*1], let me try and make it simple for you:- It's considered Best Practise to *identify*[*2] the problem *before* attempting to *solve* it. I identified the problem (my always closed and never before suspended laptop, while I was upgrading through an ssh session, suddenly suspended during the upgrade); I solved it (found the laptop in suspend mode, opened the lid, and the upgrade completed). Next problem identified (now when I closed the lid, the laptop - on AC power but with no functioning monitor - suspended); I solved it (by Googling and finding the solution previously posted). If only more people followed your example and:- ;patiently answered questions instead of dump and run ;did their research ;published there results ;carefully drew conclusions on causes - or didn't when insufficient data is available, especially when the context is contentious (kudos to you) Now, it may be that the problem is deeper, and that, as someone else has suggested, logind by default takes over a function previously performed by pm-utils, using which (with the xfce GUI interface) I had told the laptop NOT to suspend even though the lid was closed. pm-utils? Thanks, I do appreciate how hard it can be sometimes to recall/find notes of old setups. Do you recall how you disabled suspend? Perhaps using an xfce app/config? (It lives that way, functioning as a headless server.) pm-utils? Thanks, I do appreciate how hard it can be sometimes to recall/find notes of old setups. You may have noted my previous comments about not installing laptop-detect when using a laptop on mains (they make great firewall/router/gateways). I've also found power-saving problematic when employing laptops for those purposes and found removing that package the simplest way to deal with the problems. [...] In this instance - while Patrick has done the right thing by finding and publishing a solution, he hasn't provided any information about what he originally used for suspend - and how, or if, the laptop was not previously suspending. Only that it was a long time ago and he doesn't remember (cajvvksohyoymuwrdpa1glc7daqdefkcphj_fdv3sxj3wus-...@mail.gmail.com). Not sure what that's supposed to be a link to, It's the id of your original post. I 'should' have searched the mail archives to find a reference that is easier for the majority to find. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/11/msg01613.html but I thought I had made it clear that the laptop lid was closed and the laptop was NOT suspending. And, as I also said previously, I used the xfce GUI power manager to control what happened when the lid closed; Somehow I missed that. My apologies. *That* (xfce power manager) is what you 'should' file the bug report against. presumably it was talking to something further under the hood (pm-utils?) which has now apparently been overridden by logind. [...] So before debating the upgrade process it 'might' be best to try and recreate the scenario don't you think? That would probably not be possible, Not necessary given that we now know where the setting was made. It 'should' be possible to determine how xfce power manager disables suspend on lid close - and which part of the dist-upgrade doesn't respect that setting. although people in this thread have made what seem to me to be good guesses about what probably happened. But the upgrade was of over a thousand packages. All I was trying to do was to provide information which might prove helpful to others. But apparently one can have every good intention of not starting a fight on debian-user and a fight breaks out anyway. Sadly yes. Be nice to one another, Patrick Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54765aa5.2070...@gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
On 27/11/14 06:32, Rick Macdonald wrote:
On 26/11/14 08:24 AM, Rick Macdonald wrote:
On 26/11/14 12:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 26/11/14 16:14, Rick Macdonald wrote:
On 25/11/14 08:46 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
snipped
Sorry for replying to my own post...
I see now that it's the XFCE's volume management that is initiating the
(hotplug) mount. Some digging found that udisks is involved, so I
attached strace to the udisks-daemon and found this:
[pid 29472] 10:58:32 execve(/sbin/mount.ntfs, [/sbin/mount.ntfs,
/dev/sdg2, /media/WinBackup_, -o,
rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks,uid=1000,gid=1000,dmask=0077,fmask=0177],
[/* 3 vars */]) = 0
So the mode that I'd like to change is coming from the udisks-daemon (or
its parent). Strace on udevd shows that it's involved but I don't see
any file modes.
That's were I'm at now. I played with udev rules a bit but I've never
worked with them before.
Quick comment (I will get back to this later today or early tomorrow):-
grep ntfs /lib/udev/rules.d/*.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/80-udisks.rules:ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}==ntfs|vfat, \
If this does control the effect you note, (which is easy to determine),
then it's simple to create a rule based on it
(/etc/udev.d/$something.rule) that will treat your WinBackup disk
differently
Later.
Regards,
Rick
Kind regards
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Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 27/11/14 02:46, Patrick Wiseman wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 09:30:27AM -0500, Patrick Wiseman wrote: happened. But the upgrade was of over a thousand packages. All I was trying to do was to provide information which might prove helpful to others. But apparently one can have every good intention of not starting a fight on debian-user and a fight breaks out anyway. Huh? Where on earth do you get that impression? You forgot your sarcasm/ tag. It conflicts with the satire and irony tags... There is considerable debate about the subject by those developing the mailing list netiquette RFC. One camp want to combine all three tags, a second camp can't decide if irony is always a component of satire, or just sarcasm, and the third camp walked into a bar (should have ducked). Patrick Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54765e80.5000...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel and dolphin
On 25/11/14 17:17, Matthias Bodenbinder wrote:
Hi,
I am getting crazy with iceweasel not opening dolphin for containing
folders.
Hi, I run Debian Wheezy, with some backports, Iceweasel 33.1, KDE4[*1]
and *no* GNOME on this workstation.
[*1] kdebase-bin 4:4.8.4-2 (heavily customised KDE installation)
To see the current file browser system association (as your usual user):-
xdg-mime query default inode/directory
*1.* to make dolphin the default file browser (as your usual user):-
xdg-mime default dolphin.desktop inode/directory
***
Note: that relies on you having a dolphin.desktop config file - your
installation of GNOME, and my not, makes that problematic. If you have
locate installed *and* 'you' are a member of mlocate you can check
for it's existence with mlocate:-
mlocate dolphin.desktop
/usr/share/app-install/desktop/dolphin.desktop
/usr/share/applications/kde4/dolphin.desktop
*If* you don't get those results you can create them, by downloading
them from the attachments to this email, and saving them to the correct
locations (you'll need to change the filenames I've used to indicate
their future locations, to dolphin.desktop, and mv them from where you
download them as root).
***
*2.* You 'may' need to disable Nautilus as the default file browser - in
which case (check for it's existence first with ls), as root:-
mv /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.FileManager1.service{,.bak}
Note that's one line of code.
*Further considerations for GNOME possible problems*
Please note, again, I don't have/use GNOME so I'm forced to guess and
try and cover all possibilities I can think of (no guarantee that's
actually *all* - the standard Debian promise applies - if it breaks you
get to keep both pieces)
*1.* Check that Nautilus isn't set in default apps:-
as the usual user:-
grep -i nautilus /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
if you get a result, as root:-
cp cat /usr/share/applications/defaults.list{,.bak}
then edit it as root and remove the Nautilus line:-
nano /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
*2.* Repeat step *1.* above with:-
~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
~/.local/share/applications/defaults.list
*Further integration of KDE4 and Iceweasel*
*To add KDE's KPart capabilities*
As root:-
apt-get -s install kpartsplugin | less
if you're happy with what will be installed, proceed with the installation:-
apt-get install kpartsplugin
Go to System Settings on the KMenu - Network and Connectivity -
KPartsPlugin
Configure to suit your needs
*To add QT-style-like ability to Iceweasel* (it's a GTK app)
As root:-
*1.* apt-get -s install gtk2-engines-oxygen | less
if you're happy with what will be installed, proceed with the installation:-
apt-get install gtk2-engines-oxygen
*2.* apt-get -s install kde-config-gtk-style | less
if you're happy with what will be installed, proceed with the installation:-
apt-get install kde-config-gtk-style
*3.* Go to System Settings on the KMenu - Common Appearance and
Behaviour - Gtk Configuration
Configure to suit your needs
*4.* Install a KDE-like theme in Iceweasel (from the Iceweasel Addons
page - Appearance). I like Nuvola, there are Crystal (Cute Buttons) and
Oxygen-like Themes available
*To change the File Picker*
Go to about:config in Iceweasel
Search for ui.allow_platform_file_picker
Change the default Boolean value to false
*To change the print dialog to KDE's kprinter*
*1.* Repeat the above process for File Picker, except search for:-
print.print_command
and change the String value from:-
lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+-P$MOZ_PRINTER_NAME}
to:-
kprint
I hope that helps
Useful refs:-
man xdg-mime'
Kind regards
app-install
Description: application/desktop
applications
Description: application/desktop
Re: Purging a package............... (best practise for SuggestsImportant)
On 25/11/14 21:33, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Ma, 25 nov 14, 14:25:13, Charlie wrote:
Thank you for that information, it was most helpful.
I decided to add:
SuggestsImportant
{
false
};
};
To the existing etc/aptapt.conf.d/01autoremove file.
This may or may not be what you want, but changing that file is a
conffile of the package 'apt', so you will now be getting a prompt
whenever the maintainers make changes to it, whether related or not.
Good point!
My fault Charlie, using 'could' in that example was bad and I should
have thought of the possible results - it'd have been safest if I'd just
given the fragments and /etc/apt/apt.conf example doc link to explain
the index format for more complex apt config changes.
I'd recommend reverting to the original /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove
and creating a new fragment e.g.:-
91suggestsimport with the content line that Andrei originally suggested.
If you don't want that you should probably revert to the package
maintainer's file and put your customizations in your own snippet under
apt.conf.d.
Kind regards,
Andrei
Thanks Andrei.
Kind regards
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Re: iceweasel and dolphin
On 26/11/14 04:45, Matthias Bodenbinder wrote:
Scott, you made my day! Your email helped me to solve the issue.
Thanks a lot.
dolphin was set as my default file browser: 2# xdg-mime query default
inode/directory dolphin.desktop
I followed your next advice to disable nautilus in
/usr/share/dbus-1/services mv org.freedesktop.FileManager1.service
org.freedesktop.FileManager1.service.bak
After doing that iceweasel used nemo ;-) But not dolphin.
Therefore I edited /usr/share/applications/defaults.list. It listed a
whole bunch of apps in inode/directory incl. nemo I removed them all
except for inode/directory=kde4-dolphin.desktop
And that was it! iceweasel now uses dolphin to open folders.
Thanks a lot Matthias
No worries - noticed I'd made a couple of errors, which I'll correct
below, and when I get some time put information up on the Debian Wiki in
case it's of interest to anyone else. FWIW after 12 years of inactivity
there has been recent murmurs on Mozilla of addressing KDE support (I'd
just prefer porting Firefox/Thunderbird to QT - and flying cars).
PS As soon as I enable org.freedesktop.FileManager1.service again,
iceweasel switches back to nautilus. Looks like this is leading the
mime type assignments.
Yes.
I would prefer default.list to lead that.
I'm not sure how you'd do that or whether it's possible
Note - my method of removing the dbus service file is a cludge and
probably won't survive upgrades, but it breaks nothing in KDE and is
trivial to maintain.
It 'might' be better to put a copy of those services files from
/usr/share/dbus-1/services/ into ~/.dbus-1/services and add some sort of
user over-ride into /etc/dbus-1/system.d - *but* I am just guessing.
I really am, happily, totally clueless when it comes to GNOME (not
opposed to it, just limited in time trying to cover KDE and Fluxbox DE)
Is that just an iceweasel/firefox thing or intentional for the whole
system?
The whole system AFAIK - it's very likely possible to apply more
fine-grained control, I just haven't explored it.
snipped
*1.* Check that Nautilus isn't set in default apps:- as the usual
user:- grep -i nautilus /usr/share/applications/defaults.list if
you get a result, as root:- cp cat
/usr/share/applications/defaults.list{,.bak}
CORRECTION
*Should be*
cp /usr/share/applications/defaults.list{,.bak}
snipped
*Further integration of KDE4 and Iceweasel*
snipped
CORRECTION
The following will *only* work with KDE3 (not in Wheezy or later) as
kprint doesn't exist in KDE4. (apologies for not having updated my
Iceweasel references to Wheezy, and failing to notice it doesn't have
the intended effect)
*However* if 'may' work with kprint4 which is available in Jessie and
later. kprint4 dependencies it likely won't install in Wheezy, and I
haven't tried to backport it yet.
*To change the print dialog to KDE's kprinter* *1.* Repeat the
above process for File Picker, except search for:-
print.print_command and change the String value from:- lpr
${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+-P$MOZ_PRINTER_NAME} to:- kprint
snipped
Kind regards
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Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
On 26/11/14 08:03, Rick Macdonald wrote: Well, many hours of googling, and running grep on my entire filesystem, have failed me this time. I'm running up-to-date wheezy. DE? How does one override or change to options fuse gives to ntfs-3g (if I have that right)? I have an NTFS filesystem on a USB-connected hard drive. With nothing in fstab, it gets auto-mounted as /media/WinBackup: syslog: Nov 25 12:56:17 timshel ntfs-3g[16915]: Version 2012.1.15AR.5 external FUSE 29 Nov 25 12:56:17 timshel ntfs-3g[16915]: Mounted /dev/sdg2 (Read-Write, label WinBackup, NTFS 3.1) Nov 25 12:56:17 timshel ntfs-3g[16915]: Cmdline options: rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks,uid=1000,gid=1000,dmask=0077,fmask=0177 Nov 25 12:56:17 timshel ntfs-3g[16915]: Mount options: rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks,allow_other,nonempty,relatime,default_permissions,fsname=/dev/sdg2,blkdev,blksize=4096 Nov 25 12:56:17 timshel ntfs-3g[16915]: Global ownership and permissions enforced, configuration type 7 According to the fuse man page, /etc/fuse.conf only supports mount_max and user_allow_other. I can mount it manually by adding the following entry to fstab (which somehow inhibits the automount), but I'd much rather have it auto mount whenever I plug it in. Without knowing more about your Wheezy the easiest option is probably to create a custom udev rule. LABEL=WinBackup /media/WinBackup ntfs rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks,allow_other,nonempty,relatime,default_permissions,blkdev,umask= 0 0 What does allow_other do? Why umask= (instead of 0022)? Why not uid=$username,gid=users Do you want to retain and use standard Windows permissions? How many people will need access to the disk? Rick Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54750b1b.8060...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 26/11/14 09:14, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 02:44:19AM +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: Or, perhaps a general rule for default settings - safest/do no harm? [just a wild guess] Wouldn't it make more sense having the default meaning: guarranteed to work on the majority of systems/setups enabling the admin to later change the defaults to better suit their own particular needs. If that breaks things - no. How does the current system *not* enable the admin to later reconfigure? Perhaps... apt could post some sort of information message and/or a choice? Oh wait :D And *what do we know about the original customisation* that was made - which may have 'some' bearing on the badness of the upgrade/update defaults?? I remember when (still is?) the default mutt configuration was having no colors defined so that at least it was still usable on displays without colour. Now *that's* clever thinking! Now, (I hope I'm not wrong on this.) It seems that the default GNOME installation required a graphics card with hardware acceleration. How stupid is that? It goes against the whole concept of a sensible default. I thought a similar thing when planning a web site about the IBM P/S2 series (with the MCA bus). Should I use HTML4, CSS, and Javascript? How much backward compatibility should I support? Then I saw the irony. In the end I realised I wasn't bound by the same limitations that lead to the compromises called PCI, and found a way to gracefully degrade to the lowest denominator. Neither scenarios are useful analogies for DE development - especially using a FOSS model (though elements of both 'might' be useful for understanding the basic problems, given the luxury of Monday morning lunch-room football coaches). As does your question about a DE - though I know nothing about GNOME it doesn't stop me from speculating wildly (when did it ever?). Perhaps (and I really am speculating) the decision was made on the basis of:- ;trying to cater for the largest groups of users? ;wanting to make use of the video card to render icons? Admittedly that's all wild speculations made with a time investment of minute. KDE and Fluxbox don't seem to require the latest video cards - and I don't see why I should care about a DE I don't use (or support) - with no disrespect intended to those that do use GNOME (or did). But mostly:- ;I don't see the relevance between the development of large desktop environments and apt's management of relatively simple package upgrade. ;it's not a subject 'I' would casually consider if I was making the decisions. I've given the subject of this post only minutes of thought - which is at least days short of the research and consideration I suspect it deserves. I note that I'm no super-brain and many posters may not labour under the same limitations as I. BTW, along the same lines, I'd expect the default *not* to suspend on lid-close simply because some models have quirks when coming out of suspend. It should be configurable by the admin whether he¹ wants it that way. Ideally. I don't pretend to understand all the issues - and 'maybe' more importantly, I'm not willing to second-guess those that do the work. ¹ Yeah yeah or she. They? :) Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547519b4.7080...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] alternative to dsndynamic.com?
On 26/11/14 10:49, Howard Eisenberger wrote: On 2014-11-25, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: snipped Good thing. dnsdynamic stopped working again today. Seems they may have a systemic problem:- https://twitter.com/dnsdynamic snipped Regards, Howard E. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54751e75.6020...@gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
On 26/11/14 11:41, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 25/11/14 04:04 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 08:03, Rick Macdonald wrote: Well, many hours of googling, and running grep on my entire filesystem, have failed me this time. I'm running up-to-date wheezy. DE? Sorry, I don't know what DE means! Desktop Environment e.g. GNOME, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc Probably irrelevant now - given your requirements (Plex) and your stated usage (only user) the fstab I've suggested solve the mounting requirement. Please note that I can't test this for you. Understanding fuse/ntfs-3g? See the ref to the documentation at the bottom of this post. It's not the easiest read but it may answer your question. snipped I can mount it manually by adding the following entry to fstab (which somehow inhibits the automount), but I'd much rather have it auto mount whenever I plug it in. LABEL=WinBackup /media/WinBackup ntfs rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks,allow_other,nonempty,relatime,default_permissions,blkdev,umask= 0 0 What does allow_other do? allow_other (man mount.fuse) Yes. In inadvertently rhetorical question. I 'should' have asked did you apply the changes to the fuse conf to allow that option to work? My apologies (I can be a bit thick). snipped You'd think that's all I need, Agreed but it's already on the mount command line. The problem seems to be the dmask fmask values restrict access regardless. No. You need to uncomment line 9 in /etc/fuse.conf so that allow_user will work in your fstab (from not-to-be relied on memory - it still won't allow a non-root user to umount the device). This is the line you need to uncomment:- #user_allow_other Read on for a step-by-step guide on what's required. Why umask= (instead of 0022)? Why not uid=$username,gid=users All the options were copied from the mount options in the syslog above. I removed the ones that mount didn't like (blkdev and fsname). I wanted to start with what (I think) fuse is giving ntfs-3g on it's command line (not that that's a valid thing to do). fuse doesn't seem to be a binary executable, and I can't find where these command line args are coming from when mount is called. Do you want to retain and use standard Windows permissions? How many people will need access to the disk? Nobody else uses the machine, but I need the permissions opened up. In which case I'd recommend:- *1.* uncommenting the user_allow_other line in /etc/fuse.conf *2.* changing the fstab line to:- LABEL=WinBackup /media/WinBackup ntfs-3g uid=1000,gid=1000,permissions,auto,noatime 0 0 *3.* check that you are a member of the disk group (as a user:- groups |grep disk if you aren't, become one (as root)[*1]:- gpasswd -a $YourUsername disk [*1] groups won't show your changed group membership until after you've logged out, and logged back in. You can use the following if you need to double-check:- grep disk /etc/group When my WinXP server died I moved my videos to my Linux desktop. I usually use Serviio but thought I'd give Plex a try (Plex doesn't support XP so I couldn't give it a try until now). Plex runs as user plex and cannot read any of the files on this USB disk when mounted under my account with mode 600 permissions. Plex has an option to let the client delete videos, so while testing I chose . I could tell Plex to run as me, but that's no good because its files are installed under /var/lib/plexmediaserver, and if I change the ownership of those it would likely break upgrading Plex when the next deb file is released. Thanks - I've made the above suggestions with that in mind. Rick Useful refs:- http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-faq/#unprivileged Kind regards -- Don't be smart, you dunno wot you're saying ~Snortle La Darse 90-250-400 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54754d10.70...@gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
I missed some questions there :( On 26/11/14 14:46, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 11:41, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 25/11/14 04:04 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/11/14 08:03, Rick Macdonald wrote: snipped fuse doesn't seem to be a binary executable, Not by that name. /sbin/mount.fuse and I can't find where these command line args are coming from when mount is called. /sbin/mount.ntfs (it's symlinked to /sbin/mount.ntfs-3g) snipped Kind regards -- Don't be smart, you dunno wot you're saying ~Snortle La Darse 90-250-400 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5475503d.3050...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 26/11/14 12:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 26/11/2014 11:07 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: And *what do we know about the original customisation* that was made - which may have 'some' bearing on the badness of the upgrade/update defaults?? Oh, I get it, Patently, and demonstrably - you do *not*. Assuming your best intentions[*1], let me try and make it simple for you:- It's considered Best Practise to *identify*[*2] the problem *before* attempting to *solve* it. e.g.:- if a plane falls from the sky and it's discovered that a critical component was broken - first determine whether component failed before implementing more rigorous manufacturing requirements. Lest it be later be discovered that a new component was not installed (maintenance problem) or sabotage. i.e. you can't fix a problem you don't understand. In this instance - while Patrick has done the right thing by finding and publishing a solution, he hasn't provided any information about what he originally used for suspend - and how, or if, the laptop was not previously suspending. Only that it was a long time ago and he doesn't remember (cajvvksohyoymuwrdpa1glc7daqdefkcphj_fdv3sxj3wus-...@mail.gmail.com). FWIW - I suspect that, provisionally, laptop-detect should ask before defaulting to suspend. I don't know that it doesn't - or whether, somehow, systemd over-rides it if it does. I do know from similar circumstances[*3] that using the late option in pre-seeding to remove laptop-detect prevents suspend. So before debating the upgrade process it 'might' be best to try and recreate the scenario don't you think? [*1] The triumph of optimism over experience? [*2] Which requires research. Your fallacious conclusions about me demonstrate a poor grasp of what research means. i.e. Searching for evidence to confirm a belief is *not* research. It leads only to confirmation bias. Your instance being a case in point. [*3] an old Gateway laptop with a broken screen used as a firewall you think Debian is perfect and that systemd could not possibly be the cause of the problem No. I suggest you brush up on your reading skills and save yourself the awkward gynastics required to sustain your unrealistic views. Suggesting that the original set-up be considered so that the systemd installation/release upgrade process causes less problems is antithetical to your flimsy excuse for a personal attack. In short, you are 'trying' too hard. -- that's funny Please enjoy your snortle. ; now I understand Your perception is misguided. why you are so unreasonable with people having issues with systemd. Again, your perception is misguided. I have a great deal of patience for people with genuine problems resulting from them installing systemd. Problematic people not so much. There's a difference. In short, you are deluded. Your, deserved, opinion says nothing of me and speaks volumes of you. A. It would be nice if I could have used the time replying to your obstreperous and bilious attack helping people with Debian problems. -- Don't be smart, you dunno wot you're saying ~Snortle La Darse 90-250-400 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54755c22.1060...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] alternative to dnsdynamic.com?
On 26/11/14 13:53, Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 09:11:04AM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Paul Scott wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 07:40:42AM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, It seems dsndynamic.com bit the dust this weekend of the 23 of November. Is there an alternative of a free dsn server? I meant dnsdynamic of course... You give no description but from the name it seems pretty clear that you want a dynamic dns service. I have been using dyndns.org from dyn.com for years. But they are no longer free are they? Doesn't look like it, Agreed curl -s http://dyn.com | html2text | head -n 14 Managed DNS Express: Fast, reliable DNS without breaking the bank. Get your first month FREE today! or it's well hidden within their site. Seems unlikely given the first month free, which is not dissimilar to the service I suggested where you have to re-register every 30 days. For people searching for other free options:- https://www.dnsdynamic.org/ I haven't used them, their service can be used with ddclient:- http://www.dnsdynamic.org/download/ddclient.conf Kind regards -- Don't be smart, you dunno wot you're saying ~Snortle La Darse 90-250-400 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547561ce.1000...@gmail.com
Re: How to override fuse args to ntfs-3g to set permissions?
On 26/11/14 16:14, Rick Macdonald wrote: On 25/11/14 08:46 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Sorry, I don't know what DE means! Desktop Environment e.g. GNOME, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc KFCE. ?? https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=kfcesearchon=namessuite=allsection=all Gives me nothing :( Assuming the best intentions, and that KFCE isn't a typo - it still appears you are not running Debian, it's 'possible' you are using Mint - which is a Debian derivative. This the *Debian*-User list, the wrong place to expect support for anything other than Debian or Debian PureBlends for several[*1] reasons. Are you using Debian?? Respectfully - I have duplicated as much as possible the system you described for testing and confirmation, but sadly there's no point in me posting the results and continuing this exchange, unless you can confirm that you run Debian [*1]the chemistry of potato products != those of potatoes, the people reading and searching this list are looking for information on Debian, and I have to limit my time to the same. Kindly -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54758003@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: That is the huge majority of Debian users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as expected. Apropos of what? That surprise from unexpected results through failure to read release notes (adequately prepare) is no surprise. It's always been the case - and ever will be. Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have yet to have a single problem with it. What about all of those people with custom software running which relies on sysv init for starting? They should continue using sysv, don't you think? It's illogical to upgrade and not expect change - even when electing (as Debian allows) to retain the same init system. I'll be upgrading to Jessie on my main workstation and retaining systemv - but before that I will:- ;expect change ;read the release notes ;read authoritative posts to Debian User ;plan for the worst case scenarios ;carefully weight up the possible benefits against the possible losses I expect to get from the exercise what I put into it - and I am only *certain* that I won't know the results until I've completed the exercise as I lack psychic abilities (or the psychosis that is mistaken for them) or the concrete facts from which to accurately deduct the outcome in my specific instance and particular fit-for-purpose. snipped Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users. 1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due respect to Gypsy Rose Lee (who is really just a naughty boy), some of us engineer types place little stock in soothsaying. 2. It's false logic to conclude *only* losses from change (and duplicitous to deny that systemd is your only choice) - it overlooks the possibility that the additional *choice* of systemd will attract more users (and more instances - you do know that many administrators manage large numbers of instances, right?). There is no evidence to show that other distros and projects that adopted systemd as the *only* choice lost users - quite the reverse. Sure, people who only run software in .deb packages won't be hit as hard. At all. And then only if *they* don't elect to stay with sysv. But that is definitely not the entire Debian user base. Those that deploy customisations in the Debian Way should file bug reports if those customisations are not supported *if* they change init systems. Upgrades have *always* supported customisations done the Debian Way - and I have every confidence they will continue to do so Jerry Kind regards -- The pure and simple truth is the truth is rarely pure and never simple -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5472e494.8050...@gmail.com
Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
On 24/11/14 11:36, Marc Shapiro wrote: ERROR: Pairing with device ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9 failed with unhandled error code -3 That's a plist error. What is the output of idevicepair -d pair (you may need to paste the output to paste.debian.net and provide a link to it in your reply). Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547307d6.7080...@gmail.com
Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
Thanks for the replies. On 24/11/14 05:12, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 11/23/2014 12:23 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Briefly as it's been 40 degrees Celsius here and I've been outside working all day (almost beer o'clock) On 23/11/14 18:27, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 11/22/2014 04:09 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 23/11/14 09:50, Marc Shapiro wrote: My daughter has recently purchased an iPod Touch and would like to be able to maintain it from our linux box running Wheezy. snipped You mention two devices - in which case I'd:- ;suggest you turn on udev debugging (as root udevadm control --log-priority=debug) Sorry - did you apply the above, and if so - what do the logs show? (please post any relevant information for all to reference.). Yes, I did. What log should I be looking in and what should I be looking for? syslog. e.g. as root:- tail -n 100 /var/log/syslog | less I apologize for not making it clear that I had tried all of these suggestions. The first thing that post says to do is to get the device node. That is my problem. I do not have a device node for the iPod (see the output from dmesg and my comments, above). It's possible that a fusefs has grabbed the device... I have little experience with Apple devices so this is a learning curve for me to. I'm guessing you run GNOME - something else I have (very) little experience with. I am using Mate. I do not like the Gnome 3 paradigm. I no nothing of GNOME - but I believe Mate is just the visual part of the DE (i.e. the vfs is still GNOME3) Please try unplugging the device, them, while running as root, udevadm monitor --property and posting the results from plugging the Apple device back in (if any). snipped I will try the udevadm monitor --property command once I have the device available again. Marc -- Please post only plain-text:- https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct The simple two-click method to send plain-text from Gmail web-interface:- https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Gmail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54730ae5.3030...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] alternative to dsndynamic.com?
On 25/11/14 00:33, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, It seems dsndynamic.com bit the dust this weekend of the 23 of November. Is there an alternative of a free dsn server? Hugo noip.com is one of many - it's possible to use it with the debian package ddclient Do I use it? Yes. Is it better than other alternatives? I have no idea - a search engine will provide you with a list of free dns servers, only you can determine what's fit-for-purpose. Please note - with the greatest respect, as you haven't provided a Debian User context I've set the reply to Debian Community Offlist[]*1, please re-direct to this list if I've overlooked and un-stated context. Small hint: ask the question in a Debian User context and get an onlist reply. ddclient is a Debian package for use with dyndns. Kind regards [*1] My Return To: will send you to the list described here:- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54734caf.7060...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users. 1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due respect to Gypsy Rose Lee (who is really just a naughty boy), some of us engineer types place little stock in soothsaying. It is more than speculation. Read the posts here - some people (including me) are already looking for alternatives. And so are many companies I know of who have looked at jessie. 1. Like most things, that's relative. In this instance to the number of readers and users:- https://lwn.net/Articles/620441/ and, see my comments further down about churn (if I was overly tired and emotional I might write they're your ball, you know where your home is?, empty promises, and, what's second prize?. But I'm not 'that' tired and emotional). 2. Fore-telling the future, especially when the basis for future extrapolation is *not* based on *any* (supplied and confirm-able) facts - is assumption (not presumption - which generally, pre-supposes 'some' evidence, of which you provide none (which doesn't preclude the possibility you will at a later stage). Presumption is distinct from assumptions. (not to imply you are cognitively impaired, just in awareness that this is not a 1:1 communication) 3. companies that you 'know 'have looked at Jessie (which is not yet a Stable release) is like secret attorneys - not demonstrable facts and of dubious relevance. An unintentional oversight on your part I 'suspect'. I may be alone in the desire to not start jumping at shadows (or hanging monkeys in sailor suits) - that 'may' (based on historical precedence) only lead to burning witches and people that don't look like the tribal patriarch. 2. It's false logic to conclude *only* losses from change (and duplicitous to deny that systemd is your only choice) - it overlooks the possibility that the additional *choice* of systemd will attract more users (and more instances - you do know that many administrators manage large numbers of instances, right?). There is no evidence to show that other distros and projects that adopted systemd as the *only* choice lost users - quite the reverse. These are the ones who are abandoning Debian. Citation? These is a, um, little vague. Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts. Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the fictitious Wild West? I can only apologise of my ignorance of popular culture (long story - I haven't watched television in several decades - did I miss something important?). Never-the-less I suspect what you refer[*1] to is what is called churn. Tyre-kickers, testers, those that don't want to/don't have the time/capacity to learn sufficient skills, those that lack the motivation/capacity to decide for them selves and go with the flow (of the noisiest) - as some might say - like dead fish. None of which would be clients of your business - though admittedly I'm guessing at your business model and mean no undue disrespect to you as a Veteran Unix Administrator. (it's late, I'm tired, please forgive any clumsy wording and a total lack of editorial review, be assured I've endeavoured to extend the same courtesy). But they see the way Debian is going also, and don't like it. Objection - remains supposition *until* you supply evidence. I don't doubt you don't like it (shades of Fffacefriend and primary school??)But... there are many things I don't like, *I*'ll spare you, and other readers further expansion on them. They'll probably end up on BSD. Not necessarily a bad thing. BSD (a generic for a diversity of distributions, can use love - providing that those disenfranchised refugees that you refer to:- ;exist ;provide love Sure, people who only run software in .deb packages won't be hit as hard. At all. And then only if *they* don't elect to stay with sysv. But that is definitely not the entire Debian user base. I never said it was the entire Debian user base. Nor did I say you did. Please don't put words in my mouth. But even staying with sysv is only a temporary situation. In your prediction of *future* events. Which is dependant on Debian ceasing to do what Debian has done for more than two decades - overcome difficulties and adapt to change (an instructive guide to coping, and profiting from change, don't you think?) They see the handwriting on the wall Daniel[*2] or Omar Khayyám? [confused, but still keen to learn] - whether you agree with it or not. For the record - 'I' don't. On the basis of I've seen no evidence, in spite of extensive research and carefully open-minded view, of any factual support for the proof of soothsaying or prophecy (I was disappointed to discover that Uri Geller was a fraud, but I digress
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 00:53, The Wanderer wrote: On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote: Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have yet to have a single problem with it. What about all of those people with custom software running which relies on sysv init for starting? They should continue using sysv, don't you think? It's illogical to upgrade and not expect change - even when electing (as Debian allows) to retain the same init system. It's illogical to upgrade and not expect *improvement*, Good luck with that (expecting experience to triumph over optimism might be difficult to reconcile with so many posts from those opposed to a new default init). I'd recommend weighting the outcomes before embarking on an adventure with expectations. e.g. I admin systems that still run old-stable because the advantages of moving to Wheezy do not provide a compelling argument to do so. YMMV. Everyone has an opinion, no one owns facts. snipped That depends on what you (or they) count as a hit. And whether the batter is swinging a fickle stick? They will certainly hopefully, be doing a little research before banging the enter key... Please note that dist-upgrade requires more action on the part of the user than just that. snipped Those that deploy customisations in the Debian Way should file bug reports if those customisations are not supported *if* they change init systems. Upgrades have *always* supported customisations done the Debian Way - and I have every confidence they will continue to do so Is this impacted in any way by the discussion recently on (I think) debian-devel about things under /etc which are now symlinks to configuration files (some of them I think systemd-related) under /lib or /usr/lib, which latter will be overwritten on upgrade even if local modifications have been made? It's late, I'm tired, I cannot parse that. Perhaps if you replace I thing with I know e.g. a reference, preferably to something relevant to when Jessie becomes stable, I'll endeavour to answer that question - until then it's (unintentionally?) a little too Glenn Beck/Duane Gish. At a glance, it certainly looks to me as if the Debian Way of customizing things may now have changed at least somewhat What were you glancing at? (it would be helpful so I can respond to your question - assuming you are asking a non-rhetorical question). snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547350af.9090...@gmail.com
Re: Headless server just got suspended by updating systemd
On 25/11/14 01:03, The Wanderer wrote: On 11/24/2014 at 02:59 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:58:46PM -0800, Matt Ventura wrote: I think the bug here IMO is that a system simply shouldn't *do* things in general without me telling it to. If I close the lid of my laptop, unless I have told it to suspend when I do so, then it shouldn't suspend. I should be telling my machine to do the things I want it to do, not telling it to not do the things I don't want it to do. That's not the precedent set in Debian for some time now. The approach we take is sensible defaults, and suspend on lid close (at least whilst on battery power) is a sensible default. I seem to recall a discussion some years ago (I think on debian-devel) where this question came up, and I do not recall the discussion having settled out with the conclusion you have stated. Please be less vague - if you don't recall do the research instead of expecting others to do it for you. No offense intended - we all have don't recall days. My strongest memory of that discussion is someone expressing incomprehension at the idea of why someone might possibly want a laptop to suspend when closing the lid, and of writing a post explaining one possible reason why (involving parallelism with wake up on lid open). Personally, I suspect that the only reason suspend on lid close is thought of as a sensible default is because so many other (non-*nix) systems already do it, Or, perhaps a general rule for default settings - safest/do no harm? [just a wild guess] (i.e. laptops run on batteries - that default doesn't apply if laptop-detect is not installed) not because of anything inherent to the behavior or to lid-close themselves. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54735253.3040...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users. 1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due respect to Gypsy Rose Lee (who is really just a naughty boy), some of us engineer types place little stock in soothsaying. It is more than speculation. Read the posts here - some people (including me) are already looking for alternatives. And so are many companies I know of who have looked at jessie. 2. It's false logic to conclude *only* losses from change (and duplicitous to deny that systemd is your only choice) - it overlooks the possibility that the additional *choice* of systemd will attract more users (and more instances - you do know that many administrators manage large numbers of instances, right?). There is no evidence to show that other distros and projects that adopted systemd as the *only* choice lost users - quite the reverse. These are the ones who are abandoning Debian. Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts. But they see the way Debian is going also, and don't like it. They'll probably end up on BSD. Sure, people who only run software in .deb packages won't be hit as hard. At all. And then only if *they* don't elect to stay with sysv. But that is definitely not the entire Debian user base. I never said it was the entire Debian user base. But even staying with sysv is only a temporary situation. They see the handwriting on the wall - whether you agree with it or not. Those that deploy customisations in the Debian Way should file bug reports if those customisations are not supported *if* they change init systems. Upgrades have *always* supported customisations done the Debian Way - and I have every confidence they will continue to do so And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized pre-packaged) software to the system? Alien, checkinstall, and equivs come to mind. Agreed (also fs guidelines) Then again, Debian has, to date, been pretty friendly to the basic: download to /usr/local/src; unzip; untar ./configure; make; make install and checkinstall Do you expect customers to build .deb files for every piece of software they create? No, I expect the admin to 'try' and do that (e.g. checkinstall) or install the upstream package to the appropriate place where it *will* withstand upgrade. But not everyone follows BP (e.g. ITIL, PCI, and whatever relevant guidelines apply to their use-case). I don't know what your use-case is... It doesn't happen - and is not going to happen. It's much faster Convenience is the antipathy of security? (security also mean reliability). to just copy the files to the appropriate directories. And since they have complete control over the code, Complete control over the code? Are you sure you mean what you wrote? If so don't conflate complete control over the code with no control over whether the code will continue to function - as it would contradict your previous complaints. snipped Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5473543f.8080...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 02:01, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote: On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote: And exactly what is the Debian way to add custom (NOT customized pre-packaged) software to the system? As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the Debian way for installing custom software are: 1) If your software isn't installed via Debian's packaging system, avoid conflicts with the packaging system by installing it in places that Debian's packaging system is not supposed to manipulate (e.g. /usr/local) Sometimes. Often, though, they go in places like /bin or /sbin - as was done in Unix 25 years ago. (newsflash?) UNIX != Linux and,dist-upgrades won't over-ride binaries or scripts *unless* the sys admin has failed (BP and admin 101) by installing packages with names that conflict with regular distro supplied binaries/scripts. Dependencies for custom installs *should* be catered for by the installing admin - apt is good, but it's not magical (neither is any package manager). i.e. expect the impossible and prepare for failure (and don't expect professional credits). 2) If your software needs an init script, make sure that your script includes a correct LSB header and supports at least the standard verbs with their expected meanings. Some do, some don't. Many times they are just simple scripts to start a daemon because they don't depend on another system daemon starting. Agreed - but not useful in 'this' context. Does not parse. Please expand - specifics would be useful (pretend you're writing a use-case for change control). Your time is not less or more valuable than any one else's (an hour is worth exactly one hour). Jerry Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5473566a.2090...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 03:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users. 1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due respect to Gypsy Rose Lee (who is really just a naughty boy), some of us engineer types place little stock in soothsaying. It is more than speculation. Read the posts here - some people (including me) are already looking for alternatives. And so are many companies I know of who have looked at jessie. 1. Like most things, that's relative. In this instance to the number of readers and users:- https://lwn.net/Articles/620441/ and, see my comments further down about churn (if I was overly tired and emotional I might write they're your ball, you know where your home is?, empty promises, and, what's second prize?. But I'm not 'that' tired and emotional). 2. Fore-telling the future, especially when the basis for future extrapolation is *not* based on *any* (supplied and confirm-able) facts - is assumption (not presumption - which generally, pre-supposes 'some' evidence, of which you provide none (which doesn't preclude the possibility you will at a later stage). Presumption is distinct from assumptions. (not to imply you are cognitively impaired, just in awareness that this is not a 1:1 communication) It is not an assumption nor a presumption or prediction. Several people here (including me) have already indicated they are abandoning Debian for another distro or BSD. So have most of my customers who are currently using Debian. It is a fact. Lacking evidence - it remains *not* a fact. Feel free to amnend the world's dictionaries to adjust to you stated belief. 3. companies that you 'know 'have looked at Jessie (which is not yet a Stable release) is like secret attorneys - not demonstrable facts and of dubious relevance. An unintentional oversight on your part I 'suspect'. I may be alone in the desire to not start jumping at shadows (or hanging monkeys in sailor suits) - that 'may' (based on historical precedence) only lead to burning witches and people that don't look like the tribal patriarch. By contract, I am not allowed to specify which of my customers are running what. If you've ever been a consultant, you should be aware of non-disclosure agreements; they are a standard part of almost every consulting contract I've ever signed. I'm familiar with the concepts - and won't indulge in juvenile urinary sports that don't further the basic contention of what is an is not a demonstrable fact. But that does not mean they are not jumping ship. Agreed. Nor does plans for fighting an invasion of Martians. The only relevance is that they are both speculation of what is allegedly possible - conflated with likely, and having no relevance to *2.* 2. It's false logic to conclude *only* losses from change (and duplicitous to deny that systemd is your only choice) - it overlooks the possibility that the additional *choice* of systemd will attract more users (and more instances - you do know that many administrators manage large numbers of instances, right?). There is no evidence to show that other distros and projects that adopted systemd as the *only* choice lost users - quite the reverse. These are the ones who are abandoning Debian. Citation? These is a, um, little vague. As I said - contracts forbid me from giving specifics. But I'm sure you'll use that to say they don't exist. They do, however. Like secret attorneys and Santa Claus. I don't/won't cite clients with similar contractual obligations because:- ; it's not relevant ; it's unsubstantiated-able (probably not a work, I'm jet-lagged) ; it denigrates those without a financial consideration as a major factor in their motivations Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts. Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the fictitious Wild West? I can only apologise of my ignorance of popular culture (long story - I haven't watched television in several decades - did I miss something important?). No, it has nothing to do with TV. Then it just doesn't translate into English English. Never-the-less I suspect what you refer[*1] to is what is called churn. Tyre-kickers, testers, those that don't want to/don't have the time/capacity to learn sufficient skills, those that lack the motivation/capacity to decide for them selves and go with the flow (of the noisiest) - as some might say - like dead fish. None of which would be clients of your business - though admittedly I'm guessing at your business model and mean no undue disrespect to you as a Veteran Unix
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 03:26, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: snip snipped Do you expect customers to build .deb files for every piece of software they create? No, I expect the admin to 'try' and do that (e.g. checkinstall) or install the upstream package to the appropriate place where it *will* withstand upgrade. But not everyone follows BP (e.g. ITIL, PCI, and whatever relevant guidelines apply to their use-case). I don't know what your use-case is... These are system admins who have either started with Unix in the 1980's, or people who learned from those sysadmins. Back then you did put stuff in /bin and/or /sbin, for instance. And the company is not changing. Good luck with that (whoever you really are). The triumph of optimism over experience will no doubt be one hell of a party. Shame I'll likely not have an invite. Historically Overcome (difficulties) and Adapt (to change) works for survivors. It doesn't happen - and is not going to happen. It's much faster Convenience is the antipathy of security? (security also mean reliability). It is reliable. Imagine that I used a time machine to make the same point previously (whoever you really are). And has been for many years. That's what testing is all about. Apropos of what? You (whoever you are) shouldn't be running Testing if you want stability (Stable). I'm unable to conceive of how any minimally qualified Veteran UNIX Administrator doesn't get that (though admittedly I have been accused of lacking imagination). Please stop shifting goal posts - you'll not only hurt your back but also blow your cover. And even if they did create .deb files for everything, that would not negate the need for testing. Agreed - I'm glad you (who ever you are) have finally grasped some of the basics of the Debian Way, and also, basic change control. My only question is - what is your point? (aside from argument for the sake of argument). I am pleased that some to what I've said earlier has helped your understanding - it somewhat compensates for my time. snipped Yours in Debian solidarity. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54736ce3.4090...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 25/11/14 03:36, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-24, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts. Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the fictitious Wild West? I can only apologise of my ignorance of popular culture (long story - I haven't watched television in several decades - did I miss something important?). I think you're confusing holdups and hideouts (people who commit the former repair to the latter) with holdouts. Thank your Curt - I know little of popular (media) culture and banditry (so little time for entertainment). My gratitude for your help in understanding Jerry Stuckle's frame of reference - I believe it's related to something called preppers and trooffers (see I can be hip and with-it!). Don't let the grey hair and wrinkles on wrinkles fool you - I'm as hep as any of them young-uns. Time for my nap, then I'll be rappin and ropping. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54736ec9.5000...@gmail.com
Re: Purging a package...............
On 25/11/14 13:02, Charlie wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 23:24:29 +0200 Andrei POPESCU sent:
Because of this I set
APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant false;
in apt.conf
I have no apt.conf but I do have an /etc/apt/apt.conf.d directory?
Am I missing an apt.conf file and should one be added?
Yes, and no ;)
You can create one, or, you can create a fragment file and place it in
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d
AFAIK, both approaches are good.
An example fragment usage is to create a fragment e.g. (as root):-
nano /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/91autoremove
and populate it with Andrei's suggested config.
e.g.:-
cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/91autoremove
APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant false;
Notes:-
*Fragments are processed in alpha order (numbers, then the following
letters)- i.e. 10something will over-rule 11something, and 10something
will be over-ruled by 10thisthing.
*If two fragments have the same number they are processed in alpha order.
*Using the number 91 is an arbitrary choice.
*Fragments 'can' be easier to manage e.g.:- I keep a variety of
fragments in /etc/apt where they are ignored unless I, sometimes just
for momentary use, mv them to /etc/apt/apt.conf.d (where they are
processed by apt (using apt-config).
*You may find you already have an autoremove fragment:-
cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove
APT
{
NeverAutoRemove
{
^firmware-linux.*;
^linux-firmware$;
^linux-image.*;
^kfreebsd-image.*;
^linux-restricted-modules.*;
^linux-ubuntu-modules-.*;
^gnumach$;
^gnumach-image.*;
};
Never-MarkAuto-Sections
{
metapackages;
restricted/metapackages;
universe/metapackages;
multiverse/metapackages;
oldlibs;
restricted/oldlibs;
universe/oldlibs;
multiverse/oldlibs;
};
};
Which you 'could' add the suggested config to, e.g.:-
APT
{
NeverAutoRemove
{
^firmware-linux.*;
^linux-firmware$;
^linux-image.*;
^kfreebsd-image.*;
^linux-restricted-modules.*;
^linux-ubuntu-modules-.*;
^gnumach$;
^gnumach-image.*;
};
Never-MarkAuto-Sections
{
metapackages;
restricted/metapackages;
universe/metapackages;
multiverse/metapackages;
oldlibs;
restricted/oldlibs;
universe/oldlibs;
multiverse/oldlibs;
};
SuggestsImportant
{
false
};
};
For the apt.conf method (/etc/apt/apt.conf) see:-
/usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz
for examples
Charlie
Kind regards
Useful refs:-
man apt.conf
http://debian-handbook.info/browse/wheezy/sect.apt-get.html#sect.apt-config
https://wiki.debian.org/AptConf
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Re: Purging a package............... (and apt-config processing order)
CORRECTION On 25/11/14 14:25, Charlie wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:02:37 +1100 Scott Ferguson sent: On 25/11/14 13:02, Charlie wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 23:24:29 +0200 Andrei POPESCU sent: snipped Notes:- *Fragments are processed in alpha order (numbers, then the following letters)- i.e. 10something will over-rule 11something, and 10something will be over-ruled by 10thisthing. snipped *Should* have been:- Notes:- *Fragments are processed in alpha order (numbers, then the following letters)- i.e. 10something will *be over-ruled by* 11something To be clearer - apt-config processes the rules in alpha order, if two rules conflict the last rule processed over-rules an earlier rule. I don't know whether /etc/apt/apt.conf is processed before fragments in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d - but I'd be interested in learning. Anyone?? My apologies for the misinformation (note to self - sack editor) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5473ff91.9040...@gmail.com
Re: Purging a package............... (and apt-config processing order)
On 25/11/14 15:14, The Wanderer wrote: On 11/24/2014 at 11:03 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: I don't know whether /etc/apt/apt.conf is processed before fragments in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d - but I'd be interested in learning. Anyone?? Now that you bring it up, I'd be interested in that myself. Fortunately, it's trivially discoverable: $ strace apt-get --dry-run autoremove /tmp/apt-dryrun-autoremove.strace $ grep apt.conf /tmp/apt-dryrun-autoremove.strace I'm not going to paste the output here, but apparently the fragment files are processed first. Thanks for that - I've added it to my references, along with the method you used to prove it. Apropos of which, if it's of interest to anyone:- *the *.d in a directory name indicates a fragments directory (generally) *in at least the instance of apt (preferences, conf, and sources) it's now the recommended Best Practise - though I have yet to discover (mostly through a lack of research) when support for apt.conf and apt.preferences[*1] will (or if ever) cease to be supported. Again, I'd be interested in learning. Anyone?? *it 'seems'[*2] it stems from sysv change from a monolithic /etc/rc conf file to a more easily managed directory of fragments. [*1] I don't know about sources.list, I use fragments in /etc/apt/sources.list.d for repositories other than the basic official Debian ones specific to the release - I don't propose that's the correct way to do things (and welcome useful comments). [*2] if it's important - I have only anecdotal support for that, tenuous, belief. Kind regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54740f33.8000...@gmail.com
Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
Briefly as it's been 40 degrees Celsius here and I've been outside
working all day (almost beer o'clock)
On 23/11/14 18:27, Marc Shapiro wrote:
On 11/22/2014 04:09 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 23/11/14 09:50, Marc Shapiro wrote:
My daughter has recently purchased an iPod Touch and would like to be
able to maintain it from our linux box running Wheezy.
snipped
BUS==scsi, ATTRS{idVendor}==05ac, ATTRS{idProduct}==12aa,
ATTRS{serial}==ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9,
NAME{all_partitions}=ipod, GROUP=plugdev
Should be BUS==usb
Also, MODE=0660
Note that you:-
;only need to supply enough rules to match the device (minimum of 2 from
memory) I'd suggest you use BUS and ATTRS{serial}.
;you haven't mentioned what you want to do with the device i.e. mount
it somewhere - or who should do that. Please let me know what you want
to do (I don't know anything about gtkpod requirements)
Example only - this will work - but should be modified to suit your
requirement (please read further down):-
ATTRS{serial}==ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9,
ATTRS{manufacturer}==Apple Inc., ATTRS{product}==iPod,
KERNEL==sd?1, SYMLINK+=ipod, GROUP=plugdev, MODE=0660
Did you try the above? If so, what results?
I then tried connecting the device again. Still nothing. I rebooted
with the device attached. Nothing.
Apologies - I'm rushed today and don't have time to check my notes. Try:-
udevadm control --reload-rules
Did you try this after applying the example rule three paragraphs up?
snipped
You mention two devices - in which case I'd:-
;suggest you turn on udev debugging (as root udevadm control
--log-priority=debug)
Sorry - did you apply the above, and if so - what do the logs show?
(please post any relevant information for all to reference.).
For now, I'm just trying to get my daughter's iPod connected. My wife
says that she is only interested in getting photos and video off and I
should be able to do that with shotwell. Shotwell works with unmounted
devices and detects and accesses my daughter's iPod just fine, so will
probably work with my wife's iPad Mini, as well.
;*post* the output of udevadm info[*1] for both IPod devices) to
paste.debian.net and include a link in your reply.
[*1] see the Ref below for an expansion on what I mean by that.
The first thing that post says to do is to get the device node. That is
my problem. I do not have a device node for the iPod (see the output
from dmesg and my comments, above).
It's possible that a fusefs has grabbed the device... I have little
experience with Apple devices so this is a learning curve for me to. I'm
guessing you run GNOME - something else I have (very) little experience
with.
Please try unplugging the device, them, while running as root, udevadm
monitor --property and posting the results from plugging the Apple
device back in (if any).
I tried the grep on
/var/log/messages, as the post suggested, but it did not provide a
device node. It gave pretty much the same as the dmesg output that I
posted above:
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.557084] usb 4-4.4: USB
disconnect, device number 8
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.789452] usb 4-4.4: new high-speed
USB device number 9 using ehci-pci
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.885203] usb 4-4.4: New USB device
found, idVendor=05ac, idProduct=12aa
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.885213] usb 4-4.4: New USB device
strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.885218] usb 4-4.4: Product: iPod
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.885222] usb 4-4.4: Manufacturer:
Apple Inc.
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote kernel: [11593.885226] usb 4-4.4: SerialNumber:
ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 9:
/sys/devices/pci:00/:00:16.2/usb4/4-4/4-4.4
Nov 22 17:39:18 quixote mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 9 was not an MTP device
Thanks. (do test the rule I posted - it 'should' work based on that
handy dmesg snip).
It did not continue with any of the other lines such as you show and
most specifically, does not provide a device node.
OK. Again, thanks for the useful information (your efforts are much
appreciated as I don't have the devices to analyse).
I had already looked
in /dev/disk/by-path, but there is nothing there. If I had a device
node then I would not have posted the question, since I would have been
able to mount the device and use gtkpod. My problem is the *lack* of a
device node.
Let's see what the use of the rule I posted, the logs, and the output of
udevadm monitor --property show. What you desire *is* possible, just
difficult as I don't have the device, and your system, on hand to test.
Your patience is greatly appreciated.
Kind regards
--
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Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 23/11/14 19:07, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote: Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes: But they are anathema to the We are systemd of Borg, resistance is futile crowd. And then there is the Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill! crowd who jump into every mention of Systemd to piss and moan about the other crowd, which then retaliates. While I can and will killfile you others evidently can't or won't and so every attempt at a rational discussion of anything Systemd related gets disrupted. I don't care for Systemd but I am going to have to live with it and so I want to hear about it's bugs, misfeatures, and workarounds. I do *not* want to hear about your conspiracy theories nor do I want to hear any more sneering ridicule of anyone who questions Systemd. Both crowds should just STFU. You are doing nothing but antagonizing people. Well said John, and thanks (for the record, I'm *not* pro-systemd, nor anti - just keeping my mind carefully open, as I did with the introduction of devfs and udev). Not to mention the fact that the list is NOT seeing the breadth of the problems with systemd -- the views of the not so few are being squashed time and time again with post moderation. You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list ... and you are deluded if you think the problem only concerns a small limited number of people. A. How many people subscribe to this list? How many people follow the various reposting of this list? While there may be a large number of people who have problems with systemd, many of which are Debian Users - most of them are polite, and present their objections/queries in a rational manner (you would do well to learn from them). May I respectfully suggest that context is everything - only a very small number of people*[*1]*, like yourself, make persistent, bullying, vague claims about problems with systemd - while continually ignoring that it is *not* forced on them. To suggest that you represent the silent majority is the height of arrogance (and delusion?) - don't you think. Likewise the belief that anyone who patiently tries to help you solve the problems you continually refuse to *define* and *substantiate* as fanbois or part of a conspiracy - does little to give credulence to your claims. It does nothing gain you respect, divides the community upon which *you* feed, and drowns out the legitimate concerns of others due to your incessant bad behaviour. Your behaviour, not surprisingly, irritates and offends users in general - to which you then claim is evidence of persecution. There's a term for that - a classification even. If you want fair hearing be respectful and intelligent - resorting the hyberbole implies that your argument is short on facts. List your *specific* problems with systemd and put them up *once* for people to read and reply to. Twice implies lack of forethought, three times implies? And you've ranted[*2 how many times? Likewise your *half-dozen* similarly behaved Veteran Unix Administrators. There are many who have concerns about systemd - you and your behaviour do not represent them. This is a community of users - most who don't code or package, some of which make a contribution in terms of reportbug. Those that code and package make a commitment (it's an eggs and bacon thing if you need an analogy). Developers and packages would not cease to exist if user did, the opposite is the opposite. Clearly you haven't considered that - please do. [*1]https://lwn.net/Articles/620441/ [*2]] a term I apply *after* continually, and exhaustively, assuming best intentions on your part. Time I could have spent trying to help people with non-organic problems. Kind regards (sincerely - try and embrace the difference instead of trying to destroy those things 'you' don't want). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5471a07b.1040...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 23/11/14 22:13, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-22, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: What next? Shall we debate gravity or other pointless exercises[*1] (unless the Debian User list has become a school for aspiring sophists)? I've always been against gravity and am amazed it ever got off the ground. I debate that! This is one of many problems with the human constitution. Do you understand the Constitution? No one does - am I right or am I right? I'm right (you're left - you pinko, orangey. Don't take that the wrong way...) Constitution is a woody word. So is Defenestration. Denialists say that causation is not consumption - but I say where's the evidence?. [Obscure Wheezy pun] Who's Sophie? My *server* has always worked just fine without her, and lot's of people say she works for the NSE. I've heard she abuses small animals - but it all fairness I wanna extend the opportunity for her to provide conclusive evidence that it ain't so. Note: We sent a letter to Sophie (I asked my secretary to write one as I speak - indicated by head nod) - but she hasn't responded. Make of *that* what you will (you social progressive type would - tell me I'm not wrong) Makes sense to me, let's ask an average salt of the earth[*1] reader [returning you now to the regular Debian User list] [*1 mmmhmm Salted earth - good thingy. Your sensationally, Glenn Beck (channelling Duane Gish via Shirley McLaine) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5471cc25.2080...@gmail.com
Re: enough with the what's (not) on-topic discussions already
On 24/11/14 03:38, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-23, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: To any listmasters that might be paying attention. L'hôpital qui se moque de la charité? :) Apt. (In English Pot, meet kettle) Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54724c40.9080...@gmail.com
Re: curl: (35) error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error
On 21/11/14 04:56, Teresa e Junior wrote: Hello! I am using curl 7.26.0-1+wheezy11, and when I run `curl https://www.basebit.com.br', it fails with the message: curl: (35) error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error I have done some research, and found suggestions that `curl --sslv3' should work, but then I get: curl: (35) error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number I have not been successful in trying to convince the website administrator to restrict available ciphers in Tomcat's https connector, as mentioned here: http://georgik.sinusgear.com/2012/02/19/tomcat-7-and-curl-ssl23_get_server_hellotlsv1-alert-internal-error/ So I would like if it could be possible to get this working here on my part! `curl --version' returns: curl 7.26.0 (i486-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.26.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1e zlib/1.2.7 libidn/1.25 libssh2/1.4.2 librtmp/2.3 Protocols: dict file ftp ftps gopher http https imap imaps ldap pop3 pop3s rtmp rtsp scp sftp smtp smtps telnet tftp Features: Debug GSS-Negotiate IDN IPv6 Largefile NTLM NTLM_WB SSL libz TLS-SRP Thank you! Teresa and Junior I also get this failure (curl 7.26.0-1+wheezy):- curl https://www.basebit.com.br curl: (35) error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error The site uses PKCS #1 SHA-256 With RSA Encryption (TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA, 128-bit keys) so... *this works*:- curl --ciphers SHA256 https://www.basebit.com.br curl 7.26.0-1+wheezy Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5472777b.2030...@gmail.com
Re: curl: (35) error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error
On 24/11/14 11:25, Teresa e Junior wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 11:10:35 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 21/11/14 04:56, Teresa e Junior wrote: snipped Your solution is much simpler, thank you! My pleasure. For completeness, you'll find this works also:- curl --ciphers AES128-SHA256 https://www.basebit.com.br Teresa e Junior Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54727ed4.8050...@gmail.com
Re: my unintentional irony and self-satire - Now French saying to Aussie colloquialism fail
On 2014-11-23, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/11/14 08:06, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 24/11/14 03:38, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-23, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: To any listmasters that might be paying attention. snipped self-unaware, awesome joke L'hôpital qui se moque de la charité? I think that, in one of the sciences, was a L'Hopital's Rule, but, do not remember to what it applied, or, what was the rule. Otherwise, I wonder whether the above, has something to do with mosques and charities and hospitals? :) Apt. (In English Pot, meet kettle) [facepalm] :) L'hôpital qui se moque de la charité? is a French precept[*1], the English equivalent is A pot calling the kettle black, the Australian abbreviation is Pot, meet kettle Note the difference between translation of individual words and meaning. Google translate will only get you so far. For a cheese-lover, Curt's name displays a high level understanding of the nuances of English - or, 'maybe', just synchronicity (CSJ). ;p [now finishing this brief semiotic and linguistic interlude and returning you to the regular Debian User list] [*1] one-bookian equivalent - Matthew7:5,Paul6:42 Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54728fe0.8030...@gmail.com
Re: my unintentional irony and self-satire - Now French saying to Aussie colloquialism fail
On 24/11/14 16:42, Bret Busby wrote: On 24/11/2014, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 2014-11-23, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: snipped [*1] one-bookian equivalent - Matthew7:5,Paul6:42 In tems of Orstarlianinsms, does the above, mean that Matthew got 7 gaols, and whalloped 5 behinds, and Paul only got 6 gaols, but managed to whallop 42 behinds? No - that would have been Matthew 7.5 Paul 6.42, but - they never played against each other. Paul came after the VFL/AFL restructure. (though Paul poached most of Matthew's players. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5472d235.6010...@gmail.com
Re: Warning - bleachbit might kill KDE
On 22/11/14 19:07, Hans wrote: Lisi, my first thought also, but... 'perhaps' Stephen *did* read the OP's comment, and like myself, as a result of looking for the bug report in an effort to find any useful information without having to ask the OP - couldn't find any such bug report. snipped Hi, as I wrote in my first comment, I already wrote a bugreport using reportbug. If there is none, then maybe my reportbug is not working properly. I am going to have to check this. Thanks for the advice. Likewise. Best Hans Kind regards P.S. Please don't CC me, I'm subscribed to the list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5470572e.7040...@gmail.com
Re: Problems with grub2/initramfs-tools in chroot
On 22/11/14 19:50, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Saturday 22 November 2014 00:47:00 Scott Ferguson wrote: On 22/11/14 09:59, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 21 November 2014 22:43:11 Ross Boylan wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/11/14 15:13, Ross Boylan wrote: Over the last week I've repeatedly found my machine unbootable, in the sense I couldn't get to a working system without intervention. Sometimes I couldn't even get the grub2 menu. Tick I don't understand what you mean by tick. You Americans! It's lucky that we English can talk American. Tick is the English for check. [snip] snipped Correct Lisi, thanks for your worldly-awareness. If I'd written check the larger part of the world might interpret that as an instruction. My apologies to Ross for the confusion. I once had an email from an American with a sentence with the word check in it 3 times. He meant cheque, tick - and check. But it did take me a moment or two to work out. Lisi :) Here (Australia), tick is also a blood-sucking insect and a term for on credit. Those that have demonstrated bad credit[*1] are added to the Cash Up No Tick list. ;p [*1] a cheque is just promise, not worth the paper it's written on. /colloquial banter [we return you now to the regular Debian User list] Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547058a0.50...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
Please don't top post. On 22/11/14 20:50, lee wrote: Didier, you have *totally* missed the OPs point. BTW, since you assume that no systemd takeover Hyperbole much? will happen (despite it already has), what has been the outcome of the GR to support multiple init systems? It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Other than that, the OP has a good point. I found that every time something is related to the freedesktop stuff, Freedesktop just provides hosting. Substitute Sourceforge for Freedesktop and see how well your theory flies. it's not understandable at all because the documentation utterly sucks or doesn't even exist. It's an entirely dead end. Do we really need or want that? If we need it, what for? If we want it, wouldn't we be much better off using Windows? Please replace we with I - it gives the misleading impression you speak for the vast majority when you only speak for yourself. Note that opposition to *the choice* of using systemd 'probably' constitutes less than 1% of users. Noise, repitition, and FUD doesn't:- ;increase that percentage ;give you credibility ;justify your bullying and works against those that have genuine problems with systemd. The appropriate, polite way to deal with things you don't like - is speak *once* and state your case fully when you do. It's healthy to express concerns - it's unhealthy, to all, when you flood forums with them. The means justifies the ends - and bullying doesn't end well. I want to know what's going on with my computer. Freedesktop stuff prevents that. Clearly it's not a project's choice of hosting that prevents your lack of knowledge. Nobody understands udev rules, Again - you're incorrect, and speaking for yourself. *I* am not the only person who understands udev rules - far from it. (small hint: I read the man files - my lips didn't even get sore!) and I'm not happy that Noted, many, many times - that you behave like a bad child. snipped Can we Debian Users have the list back now please? Feel free to continue your campaign on Debian Abusers - it'd be more appropriate. Don't you think. -- idealist zealots - those that would burn the planet to save their backyard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5470697b.3080...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 22/11/14 22:14, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:46:19 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Another reading being The Developpers won, Debian lost... Only reads that way if you have trouble reading - or simple refuse to acknowledge the view of Debian. The good new is there's an explanation for those that can't read:- http://blog.halon.org.uk/2014/11/barbie-the-debian-developer/?utm_source=rssutm_medium=rssutm_campaign=barbie-the-debian-developer Cheers, Ron. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547076c5.9000...@gmail.com
Re: Asterisk security
On 22/11/14 23:20, Rob van der Putten wrote: Hi there A lot of bugs [1] but no Debian updates. Should I be concerned? Sorry - I don't have an authoritative answer to that. It 'might' help if you gave some information about which release you are using. [1] For instance; http://downloads.asterisk.org/pub/security/AST-2014-012.html Did you scroll down and look at the Corrected in section and compare the version number with:- https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=asterisk (filter for the appropriate release) See also:- https://www.debian.org/security/2014/dsa-2835 I hope that helps a little. Are you are subscribed to the Debian Security list? Regards, Rob Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547086b0.4060...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
Dear sockpuppet - I'm surprised you're still around, I heard your bridge fell on you. [saddened] On 22/11/14 23:22, Gregory Smith wrote: Social progressives won. And that's a bad thing? I'm guessing you'd prefer social regressives (the anti-social) won. snipped On 11/22/14, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/11/14 22:14, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:46:19 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Another reading being The Developpers won, Debian lost... Only reads that way if you have trouble reading - or simple refuse to acknowledge the view of Debian. The good new is there's an explanation for those that can't read:- http://blog.halon.org.uk/2014/11/barbie-the-debian-developer/?utm_source=rssutm_medium=rssutm_campaign=barbie-the-debian-developer snipped -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547087d0.3090...@gmail.com
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 23/11/14 02:10, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Lu, 10 nov 14, 18:20:37, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote: Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman: Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a way that systemd is never installed, thus avoiding any potential problems that might result from later uninstallation all the dependencies that systemd brings in with it. Please be specific. What problems of of dependencies are you talking about? Objection: relevancy. Overruled :p Ironic choice of pseudonym - or self-satire? There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch != Dear intertubes - do my homework for me Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547119f2.4080...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
In an effort to keep a ration discussion from sliding into a pointless flame-war. On 23/11/14 02:07, Martin Read wrote: On 22/11/14 09:50, lee wrote: Nobody understands udev rules, Challenge accepted. *looks at /etc/udev/rules.d* *looks at /lib/udev/rules.d* I'm honestly baffled that someone who is capable of comfortably using emacs thinks these files are incomprehensible. They appear to be written in a domain-specific declarative language with a fairly straightforward syntax. And easily copied and customised to suit individual needs. Pick any period of *Linux* (!=UNIX) history and it's always been difficult (requires effort and time to learn[*1]). Part of the problem some of us that have been using it for a long time suffer from - is that we've long forgotten what it was like to learn to ride a bike, so it can appear that anything new is relatively harder to learn in comparison. *runs man 7 udev* Yup. Pretty straightforward. Some highly-commented example files would be *nice*, but I don't see anything particularly intimidating in there. Agreed[*2] - but that won't faze the la la la I can't hear you crowd with their pitchforks and fickle sticks from lugging the goal posts of *nobody* understands udev rules in their blind idealistic Gish Gallop[*3] drown out the truth campaign (sigh).[*4] FWIW I've previously posted a simple, step-by-step guide on how to write udev rules to this list - that actually has been used by a 12 year-old to write her own custom udev rule. If one of the Veteran UNIX Administrators can't do it - all that says is that there's a wide range of skill levels that constitute administrator (facepalm). [*1]As does anything build upon the knowledge of previous generations - we live in an era where no one person knows everything required to make something as simple as a pencil. Which IMO is not a good reason to revert to using only things that can be build from a cup of spit and two twigs. [*2]http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html is useful, on my long list of things-to-do (that I'll probably never get around to doing) is to propose (reportbug) that be added to the udev docs in the debian package. [*3]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop [*4]Picturing hunchback trolls infiltating the peasants surrounding the castle of change (and chanting here we go, here we go). Apropos of which I'm old enough to remember the devfs wars (now 'that' was a real war you whipper-snappers!). :) Kind regards -- None so blind as those that will not see ~ John Heywood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5471194e.7030...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 23/11/14 03:03, Buntunub wrote: I understand your reasons for thinking Systemd is bad for Debian. I do, and I also agree with some of them. However, Debian is composed of a diverse group of people who have every viewpoint under the sun from Systemd is the bane of Linux, to Systemd is the best thing to ever happen to Linux. No matter where you fall in that spectrum though, there is one common denominator, and that is that we all use and love Debian. Let's start from there. Making Systemd default in Jessie I believe runs against the Debian philosophy of conservative approach and release when ready. While I personally disagree with Systemd, I have no problems with it being a part of the Debian family of supported apps. I do feel it is very unwise though to make it the default in Debian because of its monolithic nature and because of the dependency chain problems, which right now at least, make it difficult to run an alternative init system, which limits user choice. This mailing list is about Debian users. Let's stick to talking about issues affecting Debian users. This is my take, and why I oppose the decision to make Systemd the default in the next stable release. I certainly have no qualms about including Systemd in the next stable release, and I actually encourage it, so that people will have time to play with it and come to know and possibly even fall in love with it. I seriously do not understand why this needs to be rushed. Thank you for your, considerate, rational, polite, intelligent, and constructive post - which demonstrates what I regard as the Debian way (a diverse, co-operative, non-hive mind). Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54711b21.3090...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 23/11/14 08:47, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:43:01 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/11/14 22:14, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:46:19 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Another reading being The Developpers won, Debian lost... Only reads that way if you have trouble reading - or simple refuse to acknowledge the view of Debian. The Constitution might need to be rewritten, to support your POW. While Debian always have been a meritocracy, the constitution have its load of weasel words, that implies the opposite. [confused] Where did I say *anything* about the Debian Constitution. A lose-lose situation, in my point of view. Point of view is an apt description (no debian packaging pun intended). What 'you' see depends not only on where you stand, but also what you can stand and understand. Which explains by those with an over-investment in an emotional opinion read into things words and references that do *not* exist in the original material. That's not to say I disagree with your assessment with the Debian Constitution - only that it's not remotely relevant to my comments. Please don't shift the focus, I assume your intentions are best, but - it's disingenuous, divisive, and does you no credit. Please retain focus. I don't see how endless meta-semantic pedantics by Monday-footballers has to do with a vote by Debian developers. What next? Shall we debate gravity or other pointless exercises[*1] (unless the Debian User list has become a school for aspiring sophists)? [*1] Context is everything - and this *is* the Debian User list. Kind regards -- By the time you're thirty you have the face you deserve ~ GBS By the time you're thirty you hold the opinions you deserver -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54711eef.9070...@gmail.com
Re: How to mount an iPod Touch
On 23/11/14 09:50, Marc Shapiro wrote:
My daughter has recently purchased an iPod Touch and would like to be
able to maintain it from our linux box running Wheezy. My wife has an
iPad Mini and it would be nice to be able to maintain that from the
linux box, as well. I have googled. I have upgraded to the latest
kernel from Backports (3.16). I have installed libimobiledevice-utils.
I have done everything I can think of.
When I plug the device in I get the following in dmesg:
[ 127.569680] usb 4-4.4: new high-speed USB device number 6 using ehci-pci
[ 127.665562] usb 4-4.4: New USB device found, idVendor=05ac,
idProduct=12aa
[ 127.666054] usb 4-4.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2,
SerialNumber=3
[ 127.666538] usb 4-4.4: Product: iPod
[ 127.667021] usb 4-4.4: Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
[ 127.667517] usb 4-4.4: SerialNumber:
ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9
You will note that there is no mention of a mountable device node. I
have added a file, '50-custom.rules' in /etc/udev/rules.d that contains
the line:
BUS==scsi, ATTRS{idVendor}==05ac, ATTRS{idProduct}==12aa,
ATTRS{serial}==ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9,
NAME{all_partitions}=ipod, GROUP=plugdev
Should be BUS==usb
Also, MODE=0660
Note that you:-
;only need to supply enough rules to match the device (minimum of 2 from
memory) I'd suggest you use BUS and ATTRS{serial}.
;you haven't mentioned what you want to do with the device i.e. mount
it somewhere - or who should do that. Please let me know what you want
to do (I don't know anything about gtkpod requirements)
Example only - this will work - but should be modified to suit your
requirement (please read further down):-
ATTRS{serial}==ea1f2a0800d76f91f9bc0d50d6620151d249e6a9,
ATTRS{manufacturer}==Apple Inc., ATTRS{product}==iPod,
KERNEL==sd?1, SYMLINK+=ipod, GROUP=plugdev, MODE=0660
I then tried connecting the device again. Still nothing. I rebooted
with the device attached. Nothing.
Apologies - I'm rushed today and don't have time to check my notes. Try:-
udevadm control --reload-rules
What am I doing wrong?
Not supplying dense walls of text describing your circumstances? ;)
You mention two devices - in which case I'd:-
;suggest you turn on udev debugging (as root udevadm control
--log-priority=debug)
;*post* the output of udevadm info[*1] for both IPod devices) to
paste.debian.net and include a link in your reply.
[*1] see the Ref below for an expansion on what I mean by that.
I have installed gtkpod and hope that it will do
what I need it to do. But first, I need to be able to mount the device.
Any help will be appreciated.
I'm happy to do so later today (time providing) when you've posted the
requested information (again, apologies - I don't own those devices).
Marc
Ref:- (a guide I've previously posted to this list)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/12/msg01117.html
Kind regards
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Re: Custom /etc/kernel scripts not working.
On 21/11/14 19:25, dE wrote: I've certain scripts placed in /etc/kernel post*.d to update the kernel and init in the efi system partition. This's the script -- #! /bin/bash cp -Lf /vmlinuz /efi/linux.efi cp -Lf /initrd.img /efi I tried echoing somthing and it did not produce any output. The file is world and user executable/readable and owned by root. Not an answer - just curious. Did you try:- run-parts --test Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546f00c6.5010...@gmail.com
Re: Warning - bleachbit might kill KDE
On 22/11/14 05:53, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 21 November 2014 18:42:20 Stephen Allen wrote: So, do not use this option in bleachbit! I already filed a bugreport and think this warning might help others. You should file a bug report. Run reportbug, should be on your debian system. Erm... Lisi Lisi, my first thought also, but... 'perhaps' Stephen *did* read the OP's comment, and like myself, as a result of looking for the bug report in an effort to find any useful information without having to ask the OP - couldn't find any such bug report. Refs:- https://bugs.launchpad.net/bleachbit/ https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=bleachbit;dist=all https://www.google.com/search?q=bleachbit+(%22bug+report%22+OR+%22bugreport%22+OR+%22reportbug%22)tbs=qdr:m Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546fafd0.1060...@gmail.com
Re: Problems with grub2/initramfs-tools in chroot
On 22/11/14 09:59, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 21 November 2014 22:43:11 Ross Boylan wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/11/14 15:13, Ross Boylan wrote: Over the last week I've repeatedly found my machine unbootable, in the sense I couldn't get to a working system without intervention. Sometimes I couldn't even get the grub2 menu. Tick I don't understand what you mean by tick. You Americans! It's lucky that we English can talk American. Tick is the English for check. [snip] snipped Correct Lisi, thanks for your worldly-awareness. If I'd written check the larger part of the world might interpret that as an instruction. My apologies to Ross for the confusion. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546fdd04.8000...@gmail.com
Re: Problems with grub2/initramfs-tools in chroot
On 22/11/14 09:43, Ross Boylan wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/11/14 15:13, Ross Boylan wrote: Over the last week I've repeatedly found my machine unbootable, in the sense I couldn't get to a working system without intervention. Sometimes I couldn't even get the grub2 menu. Tick I don't understand what you mean by tick. That I had the same symptom. (as Lisi has noted). [snip] Could changing the boot order in the BIOS change the drive mappings and screw up grub that way? Yes. Whichever drive I booted off of sda and sdb always referred to the same physical devices. And that was even though I booted into different operating system instances. But I guess the fact that linux can keep the names safe (via udev remembering serial numbers I suspect) doesn't really speak to the drive mappings that grub sees in its early operation. [snip] I've had a 'similar' problem, in my case it was solved with:- grub-install /dev/$Whatever I either executed that explicitly or, I assume, the grub package installation machinery did it for me. But I still had trouble. If you executed that explicitly, see my comment about double-checking device names and BIOS boot order. If you didn't explicitly tell grub-install where to install - it'll likely just put it back in the same place (and not solve the problem?). grub needs to know where it should jump to. Yes. I don't know how it can figure that out from inside a chroot. The same way it figures it out when not in a chroot? For example, say /boot inside the chroot is mounted from sdb2. To the chroot, it's just part of the filesystem. How is grub-install to figure out that, when it loads from the start of the disk, it should look for the grub directory (not /boot/grub) of the appropriate partition? That depends on what you mounted in your chroot. locate/mlocate/find devicemap 'might' be instructive. The only possibility I can think of would be that it looks in /etc/fstab. Perhaps (or mtab)? I haven't done more than glance at info grub-setup so I can't say I know how device map is created (only that I know how I resolved a similar problem). If the problem is GRUB, and you are actually booting from sdb (due to the BIOS settings making it the boot device. Did you try the following? Note: double check device names (you can use the GRUB device name) with the mount command and use SMART to determine which device it the one set to boot from in the BIOS. Hope that helps. Kind regards Thanks for your response. Ross . Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546fdd42.3060...@gmail.com
Re: wheezy php5 upgrade -- lots of cron emails
On 20/11/14 18:12, Tad Bak wrote:
After the recent php5 security upgrade on wheezy (libapache2-mod-php5,
php5-cli and php5-common) my cron started to generate a lot of e-mails:
From: Cron Daemon root@...
To: root@...
Subject: Cron root@... [ -x /usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime ] [ -x
/usr/lib/php5/sessionclean ] [ -d /var/lib/php5 ]
/usr/lib/php5/sessionclean /var/lib/php5 $(/usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime)
sed: invalid option -- 'z'
Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]...
[...]
Has anybody experienced the same behavior?
No, though I've applied the same update. However others have, and their
solution may help you:-
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770105#25
Hope that helps.
Thanks,
Tad
Ref:-
https://www.google.com/search?q=sed%3A+invalid+option+--+'z'+NEAR+wheezy
Kind regards
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Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
On 20/11/14 20:13, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Scott Ferguson a écrit : On 20/11/14 12:45, Martin Read wrote: On 20/11/14 01:03, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 20/11/14 04:06, Morel Bérenger wrote: I think it's msdos. AFAIK mdos partition tables don't support anywhere near that number of slices. :( MS-DOS partition tables support any number of logical partitions. ... using E(P)BRs - limited only by disk space for them. Thanks for the correction Pascal, apologies to the OP for the misinformation. MSDOS extended partitions contain a linked list of logical partitions. It looks, from the pattern of that table, like the linked list has been corrupted so as to form a cycle. Indeed, after logical partition 8 it seems to loop back to logical partition 6. A dd of the first 512 bytes will show you whether you've overextended your MBR. If you have - that will explain the corruption (dos is limited to 512b). No, the MBR does not contain the chained extended partition tables. correct (again), they can be located anywhere on the disk The somewhat good news is that it's fixable. Yes. If recovery tools such as testdisk or gpart cannot fix the loop, my tool of choice would be sfdisk to export, edit by hand (keep partitions 1 to 8 only) and recreate the partition table. Might be worth fscking the disk first in case that's where the problem lies. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546dc4a8.8070...@gmail.com
Re: systemd for administrators, printable version.
On 21/11/14 01:48, Amodelo wrote: Am 19.11.2014 um 09:48 schrieb Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com: On 19/11/14 18:05, Erwan David wrote: On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 05:34:20PM CET, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk said: On Tue 18 Nov 2014 at 10:56:58 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:54:48PM +0100, Erwan David wrote: snipped Not pdf, but printable That search term has http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html as its first result. It gave this for you. Google results vary depending on search history, Sadly, whoever told you that was misinformed - and misinformed you. Google results may vary according to the constantly updating search index - and search terms - but the search history, either stored in your browser history, or your Google profile (if you login to a Google account) does *not* affect results. You are wrong. Your opinion says nothing of me, and speaks volumes of you. Google search-term results depend on many things, As I've previously stated - and provided factors, twice. Context shouldn't be hard to grasp, don't you think? snipped But in this case I also get the above http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html as first result Also - previously stated. snipped Please try and keep your posts at least vaguely related to the purpose of this list. Or simply subscribe to PointlessArgumentsRus and Me2 lists. Thanks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546e4422.8030...@gmail.com
Re: USB problem, hardware issue?
On 21/11/14 07:24, Joel Roth wrote: Dear List, I started noticing a delay between when I start moving the mouse on my T410 (running sid), and when the cursor actually starts to move. I replaced the mouse, but it didn't help. Now I am noticing that when I've left the USB keyboard idle, the first keystroke or two is lost. I also experienced journal I/O errors on NTFS partitions on USB connected disks, and difficulties with ext4 partitions under loads of many concurrent reads and writes. Together I'm considering these may be symptoms of hardware issues. Does anyone have experience with this? Ouch! Yes - though it may not be the same problem in your case. A failing hard drive causes the entire system to start lagging. (from memory logs full of ATA errors). In my case the drive ran OK for a short period, then as it warmed up the errors started to occur. thanks, Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546e5e7f.3040...@gmail.com
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
On 21/11/14 06:45, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Scott Ferguson a écrit : Might be worth fscking the disk first in case that's where the problem lies. Why ? fsck works on filesystems, not disks or partition tables. Good question - because I didn't spend much time thinking about it, or, because I haven't used ms-dos partition tables for a very long time? :/ Regardless - maybe badblocks would be a better way of checking if the problem is a result of damage to where the E(P)BRs are written? Certainly simpler than examining the E(P)BRs for errors which would be my next course of action if I had no backups of the disk. (I suspect) There are at least two possible scenarios(?) which would result in a problem that the OP is experiencing[*1]:- ;the OP accidentally overwrote an EBR i.e. created another extended partition at some later point (1st sector of the extended partition?) ;a damaged sector containing an EBR In the first case parted rescue may/should be able to fix the problem. The OP could probably get more info by checking the E(P)BRs. The problem 'might' be in the first or last E(P)BR (again, I 'suspect' Martin is right about the looping) Perhaps (from unreliable memory):- dd if=/dev/sdc bs=512 count=1 skip=22026238 | hexdump -C likewise with the last extended partition, and then the same on the E(P)BRs 'might' show the error? I note that's a lot of suspicions, mights, and guesses - but again, I welcome input and correction. [*1] I'm guessing, and welcome input - as I suspect would the OP An interesting problem, sadly the person most likely to know the answer hasn't been seen on the lists for some time. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546e5c7e.9010...@gmail.com
Re: Problems with grub2/initramfs-tools in chroot
On 21/11/14 15:13, Ross Boylan wrote: Over the last week I've repeatedly found my machine unbootable, in the sense I couldn't get to a working system without intervention. Sometimes I couldn't even get the grub2 menu. Tick Things are OK now, but I'm trying to understand what went wrong so I don't do it again. I had multiple disks and was working on the first 2. Initially I worked on sdb and left sda blank. Tick My setup involves various extras: software RAID, crypo (cryptsetup) and LVM, though not all system instances used all those. Disks were GPT (or blank); everything was wheezy amd64. I would install a system using debootstrap following Appendix D of the installation manual. I bind mounted /dev and /dev/pts, and usually /sys and /proc to the chroot before switching to it. I usually ran the grub setup from within the chroot. It's not clear to me exactly what is going on running grub-install from a chroot. Because of the bind mounts I assume it has access to the devices so that grub-install /dev/sdb actually installs to sdb. But the chroot simply has a file system without knowing how it was mounted. The chroot might not even have the packages to deal with its filesystem (e.g., a chroot run on an encrypted LVM volume on top of RAID need not have mdadm, cryptsetup, or lvm2 installed---not just in theory but in my practice). initramfs-tools tries to figure out what modules should be in the initrd, but it's not clear to me how it decides (consulting fstab, mdadm.conf and related files? install a module if the relevant package is installed? call the OS? consult /proc?). I think this led to some problems, e.g., the chroot was on a /dev/mdx, but the mdadm tools did not end up in the initrd. Eventually I created a system on sda and ran grub-install /dev/sda from inside the chroot. Not only did the system not boot off sda, when I told it to prefer booting off sdb I didn't get back what I had before; instead I got an older setup for sdb. Tick Could changing the boot order in the BIOS change the drive mappings and screw up grub that way? Yes. Thanks for any wisdom. Ross Boylan P.S. When formatted, both disks got a bios_grub partition. I've had a 'similar' problem, in my case it was solved with:- grub-install /dev/$Whatever If the problem is GRUB, and you are actually booting from sdb (due to the BIOS settings making it the boot device. Note: double check device names (you can use the GRUB device name) with the mount command and use SMART to determine which device it the one set to boot from in the BIOS. Hope that helps. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546ec986.4080...@gmail.com
Re: Web site conformance and various browsers
On 18/11/14 04:47, songbird wrote: berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: ... PS: when I think about how crappy all of this is, and that I remember that many people said me that websites runs in the same way everywhere, I just laugh. I try to remember it everyday, since there is a rumor which says that laughing 5min per day is good for health, hehe :) thanks! and thanks to everyone else too. uhg! i've avoided this question for a while so far, for good reasons and i can see they still apply. Some will advice that validation is not important. And they're right - if accessibility is not important. (if it won't validate it probably won't render - and hence limit the audience). i'll send a note to the problem website support desk and see if any thing will happen. Please do - I'm sure somewhere there is a developer who will thank you for agreeing with the advice they gave management - which was subsequently ignored. since i do have free time here or there i'll also volunteer to help them test newer versions. You might also try spoofing a different user-agent to see if the site renders properly then. e.g.:- Chris Pederick's User Agent Switcher Firefox/Iceweasel extension. Note that HTML5 has only very recently become a standard, and that many websites that use HTML5 don't conform with that standard. Perhaps if you posted the relevant URL we could offer more useful advice. Apologies if this advice has been repeated elswhere by those who can't be bothered/don't know how to *not* break threads (sigh) I caught GoLinux's post but may have missed others. songbird Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546c5cda.5060...@gmail.com
Re: systemd for administrators, printable version.
On 19/11/14 18:05, Erwan David wrote: On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 05:34:20PM CET, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk said: On Tue 18 Nov 2014 at 10:56:58 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:54:48PM +0100, Erwan David wrote: snipped Not pdf, but printable That search term has http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html as its first result. It gave this for you. Google results vary depending on search history, Sadly, whoever told you that was misinformed - and misinformed you. Google results may vary according to the constantly updating search index - and search terms - but the search history, either stored in your browser history, or your Google profile (if you login to a Google account) does *not* affect results. printable is a harder problem to answer. Unless you supply your personal definition. While it's definitely a personal preference - printing the Debian systemd man files is a definitive guide. I note that is not a paint-by-numbers solution to howto administer a systemd system - and hope you'll note there is difficulty defining what that system is (we don't know what we don't know?). Despite you presumed best intentions your subject and content leave lots of leeway to people trying to help answer the question. Please see the attached for a (crude) BASH on which to base printing an exhaustive list of systemd man files. I hope this may be a basis for future reference without provoking the sort, um, unfortunate response you made to Brian:- https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+NEAR+for administrators+filetype%3Apdf it is not reliable. I got a page with all the pages (I to XXI I think) in wrong order. Maybe the result was in the middle and I missed it. I can't reproduce your results. :( I downloaded the pdf then printed it using Okular (with a little juggling to get double-sided from a non-duplex laser printer). Ref:- http://0pointer.de/public/ In the hope it may prove useful - please see the (other) attached BASH script Kind regards -- #!/bin/bash # replace $YourPreferredPrinter with the appropriate value for i in man -k systemd;do zcat /usr/share/man/man1/$i.gz | groff -man -Tps | lpr -P $YourPreferredPrinter;done#!/bin/bash #Please replace $Url with the appropriate url. curl $Url 21 | grep -o -E 'href=([^#]+)' | cut -d'' -f2
Re: Which Debian category am I located?
On 16/11/14 15:13, Clarence wrote: There are tons of categories on Debian Mailing-List? I forgot which one am I located, when I tried to search the archive. located??? Please explain - what area/usage of Debian are you interested in? If as a user of Debian (English) then you have the right list. If specifically firewall, or, laptops, then you should probably chose those lists. If you mean to which list am I subscribed - check your received and sent email folders in Icedove. If you meant to which list have I previously posted... None using that email address. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546c5e88.4040...@gmail.com
Re: systemd for administrators, printable version.
On 19/11/14 20:53, Darac Marjal wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 07:48:49PM +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 19/11/14 18:05, Erwan David wrote: On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 05:34:20PM CET, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk said: On Tue 18 Nov 2014 at 10:56:58 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:54:48PM +0100, Erwan David wrote: snipped Not pdf, but printable That search term has http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html as its first result. It gave this for you. Google results vary depending on search history, Sadly, whoever told you that was misinformed - and misinformed you. Google results may vary according to the constantly updating search index - and search terms - but the search history, either stored in your browser history, or your Google profile (if you login to a Google account) does *not* affect results. So you're saying that http://dontbubble.us is pure marketing hype? No - because I haven't read it. It's a big web - you'll even find sites for flat-earthers and luddites. Is it authoritative? Are you saying that Google, themselves (googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/personalized-search-for-everyone.html) misinformed their customers about what they do? Have you read it? Have you read, carefully, what I wrote (which is still quoted above)?? [small hints] You'll know when we customize results because a View customizations link will appear on the top right of the search results page. Clicking the link will let you see how we've customized your results and also let you turn off this type of customization. Personalized search != copying and pasting a quoted search URL. Maybe you were simply unaware of how Google influence their product (searchers) for the benefit of their customers (advertisers). No. Though I'll allow that I've never been employed by the UK Google division, nor do I put much stock in meta-semantic quibbling. Kind regards. and many thanks for your, considered, emotionally unbiased, opinions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546c6f36.4050...@gmail.com
Re: No Google bubble?
On 19/11/14 22:09, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com [2014-11-19 10:48 +0200]: Sadly, whoever told you that was misinformed - and misinformed you. Google results may vary according to the constantly updating search index - and search terms - but the search history, either stored in your browser history, or your Google profile (if you login to a Google account) does *not* affect results. Can you please back this up with evidence? I would love to be proven misinformed. With the greatest respect Martin - have you tried testing it yourself? Fire up three boxes running Iceweasel, with one using a Google profile with a search history and logged into Google, a second not logged into Google but with a search history, and a third also not logged into a Google account but with no search history - then paste the same search term into the search box. Do let me know if you can't find the pdf under discussion at the top of the search results. systemd for administrators pdf http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html If you refer to my original reply to Paul you'll note I quoted the Google UK (and I'm not in the UK) blog notice where it states that *modified* search results are clearly marked, and can be replaced with *unmodified* search results by clicking on a button[*1] - please try that before people prove a negative (assuming that's even possible). Then, to be fair to the originally lambasted Brian - try *copying and pasting* a search term. And do note my original comment about the nature of Google's search index - it's always changing (it's not a static index)[*2]. Even if you do an identical search query at the same moment as I - we will get different results (Google doesn't have a single international search engine). Never-the-less, Brian's query *currently* will put that same page at the top of the results (for the time being). [*1] https://www.google.com/history/optout?hl=en [*2] Now includes the OP's post Here's the first URLs from the results (I've removed the dozen or so that are above the search results):- https://www.google.com/search?q=systemd+for+administrators+pdfamp;client=iceweasel-aamp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficialamp;channel=sbamp;source=lntamp;tbs=li:1amp;sa=Xamp;ei=O-9sVIXDG8OxmwW68ILADgamp;ved=0CBYQpwU *http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html* http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XL78OblSZFgJ:0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html+amp;cd=1amp;hl=enamp;ct=clnkamp;client=iceweasel-a https://www.google.com/search?client=iceweasel-aamp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficialamp;channel=sbamp;q=related:0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-pdf.html+systemd+for+administrators+pdfamp;tbo=1amp;sa=Xamp;ei=O-9sVIXDG8OxmwW68ILADgamp;ved=0CCMQHzAA http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-ebook-psankar.pdf http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jI2PwP6QAooJ:0pointer.de/public/systemd-ebook-psankar.pdf+amp;cd=2amp;hl=enamp;ct=clnkamp;client=iceweasel-a https://www.google.com/search?client=iceweasel-aamp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficialamp;channel=sbamp;q=related:0pointer.de/public/systemd-ebook-psankar.pdf+systemd+for+administrators+pdfamp;tbo=1amp;sa=Xamp;ei=O-9sVIXDG8OxmwW68ILADgamp;ved=0CCkQHzAB http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/resources.html Apropos of which, for those concerned about Google not providing search results as a community service, please try the following Iceweasel extensions:- ;Moxie's Google Sharing ;Wladimir Palant's Ad Block Plus ;Ove's Self-Destructing Cookies ;Giorio Maone's No Script Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546cf397.8050...@gmail.com
Re: the developers have spoken
On 20/11/14 04:01, golinux wrote: On Wed, 11/19/14, songbird songb...@anthive.com wrote: Subject: the developers have spoken To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 8:11 AM the vote is in. [cut] My beloved Debian, RIP. Very sad that the ride will be over when when Squeeze and Wheezy (and possibly Jessie - jury is still out) get to EOL . . . golinux (soon to be linuxrip) You can always start a business telling fortunes - in those countries that allow it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546cf60f.3080...@gmail.com
Re: No Google bubble?
On 20/11/14 04:04, Darac Marjal wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 03:49:09PM +, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-19, Renaud OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: The claim is your Google search history affects your Google search results. Seems Google tailors your results depending on what you look at; frinstance if they see that you often go to the Wikipedia article on the query subject, they will put wikipedia higher in your results. The link posted by Darac (http://dontbubble.us/) claims that Google results are tailored *based on your search history*. I don't have a search history. I had no cookies, either, when I made the search. Nor was I logged in to their services. So I don't see how Google could have tailored my results. Do you regularly search from the same IP address? Do you regularly search from the same browser? Do you regularly search from the same country? Because Google don't publish their search algorithm, it's impossible to tell how they tailor their results for anonymous users. It's not beyond the realms of possibility (nor beyond Google's resources) to tailor results based on a number of factors. Firefox users prefer github, Internet Explorer users are generally conservative, Chinese users should not be shown 'unacceptable' ideas are all customisations that Google *COULD* implement, all with the goal of getting the best click-through statistics. It's possible - but it's not the case. Click-through-statistics isn't the primary purpose, relevant results is. It's possible that people can live on orange juice alone - but nor is it the case. And any demand to prove it does nothing to change a belief into a fact. Google *can* tailor search results, the user can easily avoid tailored search results. When Google tailors search results the fact they have been tailored is clearly evident and a button is displayed, which upon clicking, will give you un-tailored search results. Impel != Compel As previously stated (for those that can't or won't read) - there are a number of factors that affect search results, the main ones being:- ;where you are when you make the query (the search engines are distributed and not synched in real-time + they differ slightly according to local language and laws) ;the index is based, mainly[*1] on backlinks harvested by Googlebot i.e. it's dynamic (e.g. these posts modify the results) [*1] Google employs thousands - while not published the search results algorithm is not like the formula for Coke-a-Cola. At what point does this thread become petty and stupid? While it may satisfy the desires of those with a conspiracy axe to grind, or some sort of resentment based on the false idea that Brian made them look silly for not performing a simple search for an answer to their question - none of this is remotely relevant to the OP's question. -- The pure and simple truth is that the truth is rarely pure and never simple -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546cfa09.3000...@gmail.com
Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table
On 20/11/14 04:06, Morel Bérenger wrote: Le Lun 17 novembre 2014 19:32, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a écrit : On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: So, what part of that disk should I extract, which could be usable and sharable? Partition table, of course, which is probably at disk's beginning, but how long might it be? That depends. What kind of partition table? I think it's msdos. Could you post the output of fdisk -l /dev/$ProblematicDisk please (you'll need to run the command as root)? Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546cfa85.7050...@gmail.com
Re: No Google bubble?
On 20/11/14 08:14, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com [2014-11-19 21:46 +0200]: With the greatest respect Martin - have you tried testing it yourself? No, I have not used Google for over 5 years by choice because I do not like it when profit-driven entities make decisions over what I should see. With all due respect: have you not heard of the search bubble or are you denying it? The claimed respect is not immediately evident in the slanted questions. Ever since switching to duckduckgo.com, I've found the better answers. At first it's hard because DDG shows you the stuff you aren't used to, but when I research, this is the stuff I want to see. I don't want to be reconfirmed in the bias and prejudices I already have. I'm happy you've found a search engine that satisfies your search requirements. I'd be even happier if you mustered the tolerance that I have for other people's choices of search engines. [curious] What does any of this have to do with Debian-user?? Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546d123f.2060...@gmail.com
Re: the developers have spoken
On 20/11/14 08:14, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Wed 19 Nov 2014 at 12:41:45 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 03:25:24AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: snipped The vast majority on debian-user see this list as being for the support of users who *use* Debian and not a talking shop about it. Encouragement to pervert its purpose is little short of bad manners, no matter how interesting a small number may find the topic. Please be considerate. Ummm quite a few of us ARE using Debian, and HAVE BEEN using Debian, and discussion of comparisons and alternatives seems to be perfectly on topic. [curious] Other than a possible exercise in self-validation - if, as you've previously stated, *you have ceased using Debian* - why do you continue posting to Debian user? Kind regards -- People with causes have a way of letting others do their time on the cross James Lee Burke -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546d14c2.7080...@gmail.com
Re: Reloading the kernel with kexec before other services start
On 20/11/14 10:00, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
Hello.
I need to reload the same kernel that the machine boots with with kexec,
in order to specify different kernel parameters. Changing the boot
loader is unfortunately not an option.
I'm using Debian Wheezy with sysvinit. I can make a script to kexec the
kernel just once (avoiding loops), but how should I modify/add the init
scripts so that on boot, this scripts is loaded before the system
daemons (to prevent corrupting their files when they're ungratuitously
terminated)?.
Modifying /etc/rc2.d is discouraged as far as I can tell, because the
scripts there get overwritten by update-rc.d.
Regards and thanks.
Try kexec-tools(?)
https://wiki.debian.org/BootProcessSpeedup#Using_kexec_for_warm_reboots
Or, perhaps, modify /etc/init.d/reboot, possibly something like:-
(as root)
cp /etc/init.d/reboot /usr/local/bin/reboot
cp /usr/local/bin/reboot{,.bak}
nano /usr/local/bin/reboot
modify to suit, then when you want to use kexec cp the modified
/usr/local/bin/reboot to /etc/init.d/reboot and reboot, afterwards cp
/usr/local/bin/reboot.bak to /etc/init.d/reboot
Kind regards
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Re: the developers have spoken
On 20/11/14 10:16, Brian wrote: On Wed 19 Nov 2014 at 16:14:46 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Wed 19 Nov 2014 at 12:41:45 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 03:25:24AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: No, not necessarily. For many, it means that Debian Linux is dying and will soon be dead -- or rather, no longer relevant. I just hope that the alternative in FreeBSD works out. I encourage you to find out sooner, rather than later, but please don't trouble to tell us whether it does or not. Please DO report back. Some of us really do want to know the state of alternatives. Apart from using your own resources to explore alternatives you will find the experts at http://www.freelists.org/list/modular-debian The list is tailored exactly to your needs and the needs of others with similar thinking. They are actively seeking recruits. I am confident you will be welcomed into a congenial coterie of like-minded people where discussion of other operating systems is always on the agenda. The vast majority on debian-user see this list as being for the support of users who *use* Debian and not a talking shop about it. Encouragement to pervert its purpose is little short of bad manners, no matter how interesting a small number may find the topic. Please be considerate. Ummm quite a few of us ARE using Debian, and HAVE BEEN using Debian, and discussion of comparisons and alternatives seems to be perfectly on topic. Nobody has mentioned 'on-topic' or 'off-topic' but the continual rabbiting on (sorry, Scott) No offence taken, I was simply trying to help those with genuine concerns (like Miles) and guide those with irrational fears on howto express them without jamming the lists with FUD (which threatens to discredit those with genuine concerns). I'll stop that now. becomes a trifle wearing after five+ months. Agreed. Using Debian isn't a reason to create a talking shop about every little thing connected with it, especially when it is to the detriment of this list. Excitment about having a group of like-minded people to converse with at modular-debian appears lacking. One wonders why? Desire for self-validation? Misery likes company? Despite claims of there ain't no such thing as a free lunch and being bullied - a small, vocal, minority persist in making demands of Debian (bullying and tanstaafl hypocrisy?). As evidenced by those seeking help on how to kill-list references to systemd, this results in debian users not seeking support on this list, which reduces useful feedback to developers amongst other problems - and lessens the chance of genuine problems with systemd becoming the *default* getting a fair hearing. Kind regards -- idealist zealots - those that would burn the planet to save their backyard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546d296c.7090...@gmail.com
Re: Reloading the kernel with kexec before other services start
On 20/11/14 10:36, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
Thanks for the answer.
If I understand correctly, your suggestions take effect when restarting
the machine. I'm looking for something that takes effect when starting up.
Simpler - add an extra GRUB entry. My apologies for the confusion (I've
only used kexec for (warm) reboots.
I have considered making a script in /etc/init.d/, but how can I make
sure that this scripts gets executed before any daemon prone to
corrupting files when terminated improperly starts?.
Or, perhaps, modify /etc/init.d/reboot, possibly something like:-
(as root)
cp /etc/init.d/reboot /usr/local/bin/reboot
cp /usr/local/bin/reboot{,.bak}
nano /usr/local/bin/reboot
modify to suit, then when you want to use kexec cp the modified
/usr/local/bin/reboot to /etc/init.d/reboot and reboot, afterwards cp
/usr/local/bin/reboot.bak to /etc/init.d/reboot
Kind regards
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Re: Reloading the kernel with kexec before other services start
On 20/11/14 10:43, Mario Castelán Castro wrote: This is a virtual machine whose bootloader is bypassed. GRUB is ignored completely, so I can't modify it to pass kernel options. That's why I need to use kexec. Then I'd suggest you:- ;try the reboot method - warm reboot and kexec should allow you to achieve the desired outcome ;provide more information about your virtualmachine so other suggestions can be provided. At any rate, thanks you very much for the quick reply!. Compiling! (so I have time to answer list posts - and swordfight). But not for much longer - so I may not get back to the list until this evening or tomorrow. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546d2e31.3000...@gmail.com
Re: the developers have spoken
On 20/11/14 10:15, Peter Nieman wrote: On 19/11/14 22:21, Miles Fidelman wrote: Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 12:41:45PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Please DO report back. Some of us really do want to know the state of alternatives. If you insist then please use the d-community-offtopic list[1], which was set up for these situations. How about, no. Debian, the state of Debian, the future of Debian, comparisons of Debian to alternatives are all (IMHO) completely on topic, and of interest to THIS user. It's amazing, isn't it. No. At least every second message sent by systemd advocates ends with the words stop it!, shut up! or go away!. They claim to support free software and can't even tolerate free speech. Those two things are mutually exclusive. And Debian is made up of a large collection of people who don't all share the same opinions. Clearly you overstate your claims - or simply can't count. If you can't be truthful please consider the people whose legitimate concerns are being kill filed through your thoughtlessness. I want those twenty minutes back that I spent checking. Please don't make the mistake of believing that the vast majority of list subscribers who don't post on this subject all approve of your behaviour or share your opinions. -- The means justifies the ends -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546d3cf8.8090...@gmail.com
