WAS: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ).. NOW~~The dangers of .mbox mail clients?

[Chris M]

I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox 
format to store emails.

It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.

Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the mailbox a 
certain size?

or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?

The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1 on 
Windows 10. And you had

to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.

I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done 
reading emails.


Right now my "2024 Archives" folder is at:

Number Of Messages: 4776

Size: 300 MB


THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 02:18:40PM -0400, e...@gmx.us wrote:
> eben@cerberus:~$ apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64
> linux-image-amd64:
>   Installed: (none)
>   Candidate: 6.1.90-1

> What am I doing wrong?

You haven't installed the linux-image-amd64 metapackage, which means
you will not be offered new kernel versions automatically.  This isn't
technically "wrong", but it's not (or should not be) a common choice.

Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

James H. H. Lampert wrote:
I will say that one should probably not expect perfection from an 
email reader that's named after a cheap wine.


In my experience, T-Bird is the worst email reader I've ever used . . 
. except for *every other* email reader (without a single exception) 
I've tried. I'm particularly irritated with those that have no way to 
disable HTML rendering, and those that have no way to send properly 
formatted plain-text-only emails, those that try to trick you into 
top-posting, and (especially) those mobile email readers that waste 
finite processor resources by insisting on checking your email even 
when closed.


Compared to that, dealing with T-Bird's imperfections is a walk in the 
park.


--
JHHL
(who still hasn't figured out why Ford named a car, and the Air Force 
named its demonstration team, after that same cheap wine)






Thunderbird is the name of a cheap wine?

I love Evolution and Claws to a point. Its a PITA to forward emails with 
HTML in them, like the Informed Delivery email I get each morning

letting us know whats coming in the USPS that day.




THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: tree with dir size

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 01:11:57PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 10:32:16 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > duhs() (
> > shopt -s dotglob
> > printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
> > )
> > 
> > I'm not personally fond of this.  It's extremely easy to overlook
> > the fact that the curly braces have been replaced with parentheses,

> I guess minimalists would make a one-liner out of that.
> Myself, I prefer verbosity, and the ability to search and find
> all my functions with   /function.*{$   in less. For example,
> I write what is probably my most trivial function in .bashrc as:
> 
>   function _Cat_ {
>   cat
>   }
> 
> rather than:
> 
>   _Cat_() { cat; }

... I feel like you've just exemplified what I was talking about, missing
the fact that the curly braces were replaced with parentheses around the
function body to force a subshell every time it's called.

It had nothing to do with how many lines of code were used.  I could
have written them as

duhs() { (shopt -s dotglob; printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh); }

and

duhs() (shopt -s dotglob; printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh)

and the same point would have applied.

>   function _Cat_ {

Do note that the "function" keyword is a bash/ksh extension, and not
part of POSIX sh syntax.  In bash, "x()" and "function x" are identical
in behavior.  In ksh, they cause two different kinds of variable scoping
behavior.  Bash also allows "function x()" which ksh does not.

Just for the record.

Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Dan Ritter]

Bret Busby wrote: 
> On 4/6/24 00:10, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> > I will say that one should probably not expect perfection from an email
> > reader that's named after a cheap wine.
> > 
> 
> ?

USA-centric reference. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavored_fortified_wine

-dsr-

Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Lee]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 2:14 PM Bret Busby wrote:
>
> On 4/6/24 00:10, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> > I will say that one should probably not expect perfection from an email
> > reader that's named after a cheap wine.
>
> ?

Thunderbird wine was extremely inexpensive and 42 proof.
In retrospect I'm a bit surprised that I've never tried it.  Ripple,
yes. Boone’s Farm, yes. Thunderbird? no.

Lee

Re: tree with dir size

[David Wright]

On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 10:32:16 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> I'll also throw in one last piece of information because if I don't,
> someone else is likely to do it, without a good explanation.
> Syntactically, the body of a shell function doesn't have to be enclosed
> in curly braces.  The body can be any compound command, and a curly-brace
> command group is just one example of a compound command.  A subshell is
> another example.  So, it could also be written this way:
> 
> duhs() (
> shopt -s dotglob
> printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
> )
> 
> I'm not personally fond of this.  It's extremely easy to overlook
> the fact that the curly braces have been replaced with parentheses,
> especially in certain fonts.  Nevertheless, some people like this.

I guess minimalists would make a one-liner out of that.
Myself, I prefer verbosity, and the ability to search and find
all my functions with   /function.*{$   in less. For example,
I write what is probably my most trivial function in .bashrc as:

  function _Cat_ {
  cat
  }

rather than:

  _Cat_() { cat; }

Cheers,
David.

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[eben]

On 6/3/24 09:40, Tom Browder wrote:

I keep getting emails concerning the serious kernel vulnerability in
kernels 5.14 through 6.6.

I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64

On 6/3/24 09:40, Tom Browder wrote:

I keep getting emails concerning the serious kernel vulnerability in
kernels 5.14 through 6.6.

I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64

Anyone concerned?


I have the same kernel, and no updates.

eben@cerberus:~$ sudo apt-get update
[sudo] password for eben:
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm InRelease
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates InRelease
Hit:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-proposed-updates InRelease
Hit:4 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports InRelease
Hit:5 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
Hit:6 https://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org bookworm InRelease
Hit:7 https://www.deb-multimedia.org bookworm InRelease
Reading package lists... Done

eben@cerberus:~$ apt list --upgradable
Listing... Done

eben@cerberus:~$ apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64
linux-image-amd64:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 6.1.90-1
  Version table:
 6.7.12-1~bpo12+1 100
100 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports/main amd64 Packages
 6.1.90-1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-proposed-updates/main
amd64 Packages
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security/main
amd64 Packages
 6.1.76-1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages
 6.1.67-1 500
500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates/main amd64 Packages

What am I doing wrong?  Also, I'm not sure how to interpret the apt-cache
output.


--

  This message was created using recycled electrons.

Re: Arranque muy lento con SSD

[Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena]

 El lunes, 3 de junio de 2024, 01:42:35 p. m. ART,  
escribió:


Hola.
Tengo un ordenador portátil Acer Aspire 5732ZG que ya tiene unos catorce años.
Hasta ahora estaba funcionando con Windows 7 y para lo que lo utilizaba (ver
películas y escuchar música) me sobraba. Pero como el lector de DVD empezaba a
fallar, decidí eliminarlo e instalar un SSD. Y ya de paso eliminar Windows y
meter Debian.
La idea era instalar el SO en un  SSD y utilizar el disco duro antiguo como
almacen de archivos. Así lo hice. La instalación no dio ningún problema, pero
a la hora de arrancar... se quedó la pantalla en negro con el cursor
parpadeando arriba a la izquierda. Intenté abrir una tty con
Ctl+Alt+F1...F2... Pero no funcionó. Pensé que se habia bloqueado, pero al
cabo de mucho tiempo apareció el SSDM y despues de loguearme se inició el
escritorio como si nada.
He vuelto ha hacer la prueba, cronometrando, y he visto que tarda unos 20
minutos en arrancar. Ya se que el equipo es viejo pero...¿20 minutos? me
parece excesivo. Antes Windows tardaba 1-2 minutos.

Todo esto sucede al cargar el kernel 6.1.0-21. Si en Grub selecciono el kernel
6.1.0-18, arranca más rapido. Aún lento porque es un equipo muy viejo, pero es
algo aceptable.

Una vez que ha arrancado el funcionamiento es el esperado.

Buscando en la red he leido algo de poner al controlador SATA en modo AHCI en
lugar de IDE en la BIOS. Pero ya estaba así.
Durante el arranque no da información, solo el cursor parpadeando.
El equipo es un Acer Aspire 5732ZG con Pentium T4400 a 2.2 GHZ, 4GB de Ram y
una grafica ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570. Un SSD Kingston de 240 GB donde he
instalado el SO (/dev/sdb) y un WDC de 500 GB como almacen (/dev/sdb).

A ver si alguien tiene idea de lo que puede estar pasando.

Saludos.

--


RESPUESTA de Egis:

Una PC o Notebook NO puede tardar 20 minutos en bootear por más vieja que sea.
Yo tengo -entre otras- una notebook HP mini 110 (que debe ser, en potencia, 
similar a la tuya) que tarda menos de un minuto en bootear desde el disco 
original. 

QUIZÁS, habrá que ver, lo que esté sucediendo es que el SO se quede buscando 
algún controlador o algún dispositivo que no exista o que no esté bien 
configurado.

En principio YO me fijaría en la BIOS de la notebook que dispositivos físicos 
están declarados en la BIOS, quita los que NO tengas más (el DVD) 

Colocar AHCI (interfaz avanzada de controlador host): que es el estándar 
moderno para el funcionamiento del controlador SATA, ofrece el mejor 
rendimiento posible con un dispositivo de almacenamiento SATA, además de la 
mejor compatibilidad para características que optimicen el rendimiento de la 
SSD, como el comando Trim. Así que... conviene activarlo.

También influye el entorno de escritorio... XFCE y LXDE son menos pesados que 
otros.

Convendría también que le des una revisadita a los archivos "log"

Por mi parte no puedo decirte más. Seguramente otros aportarán más ideas.
  

Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 4/6/24 00:10, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
I will say that one should probably not expect perfection from an email 
reader that's named after a cheap wine.




?



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: tree with dir size

[tomas]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 02:36:43PM +, Andy Smith wrote:

[...]

> If that's the only thing you're using unbuffer for, why not just use
> the -C option of tree? It's a bit like the "--color=always" of ls.

Oh, and the complementary option for `less', while we're at it, would
be -R:

  tree -C | less -R

(I tend to add -SX to less: people might like those or not).

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Arranque muy lento con SSD

[jerigondor78]

Hola. 
Tengo un ordenador portátil Acer Aspire 5732ZG que ya tiene unos catorce años. 
Hasta ahora estaba funcionando con Windows 7 y para lo que lo utilizaba (ver 
películas y escuchar música) me sobraba. Pero como el lector de DVD empezaba a 
fallar, decidí eliminarlo e instalar un SSD. Y ya de paso eliminar Windows y 
meter Debian.
La idea era instalar el SO en un  SSD y utilizar el disco duro antiguo como 
almacen de archivos. Así lo hice. La instalación no dio ningún problema, pero 
a la hora de arrancar... se quedó la pantalla en negro con el cursor 
parpadeando arriba a la izquierda. Intenté abrir una tty con 
Ctl+Alt+F1...F2... Pero no funcionó. Pensé que se habia bloqueado, pero al 
cabo de mucho tiempo apareció el SSDM y despues de loguearme se inició el 
escritorio como si nada.
He vuelto ha hacer la prueba, cronometrando, y he visto que tarda unos 20 
minutos en arrancar. Ya se que el equipo es viejo pero...¿20 minutos? me 
parece excesivo. Antes Windows tardaba 1-2 minutos.

Todo esto sucede al cargar el kernel 6.1.0-21. Si en Grub selecciono el kernel 
6.1.0-18, arranca más rapido. Aún lento porque es un equipo muy viejo, pero es 
algo aceptable. 

Una vez que ha arrancado el funcionamiento es el esperado. 

Buscando en la red he leido algo de poner al controlador SATA en modo AHCI en 
lugar de IDE en la BIOS. Pero ya estaba así.
Durante el arranque no da información, solo el cursor parpadeando.
El equipo es un Acer Aspire 5732ZG con Pentium T4400 a 2.2 GHZ, 4GB de Ram y 
una grafica ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570. Un SSD Kingston de 240 GB donde he 
instalado el SO (/dev/sdb) y un WDC de 500 GB como almacen (/dev/sdb).

A ver si alguien tiene idea de lo que puede estar pasando.

Saludos.

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 3 Jun 2024 11:29 -0500, from tom.brow...@gmail.com (Tom Browder):
> Thanks for your concern and help.

You're welcome. Glad you got it sorted.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 09:15 Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>
wrote:

> On 3 Jun 2024 08:40 -0500, from tom.brow...@gmail.com (Tom Browder):
> > I keep getting emails concerning the serious kernel vulnerability in
> > kernels 5.14 through 6.6.
> >
> > I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64
>
> Something's broken on your end.
>
> Bookworm is currently at ABI 6.1.0-21 / kernel 6.1.90-1 since May 6


Michael, on one my hosts I discovered both 13 and 21 pkgs are installed. I
did a reboot and I get uname -a = 6.1.0-21-amd4;

I must have missed a msg at some point.

Thanks for your concern and help.

-Tom

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 3 Jun 2024 09:51 -0500, from tom.brow...@gmail.com (Tom Browder):
> But another remote host seems to have the same problem. Each host comes
> from a different provider and had slightly different default pinnings in
> '/etc/apt/sources.list'.
> 
> I'll double-check my pinnings.

Try: apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64

Here's the output of that from my system, only slightly anonymized,
for comparison:

> linux-image-amd64:
>   Installed: 6.1.90-1
>   Candidate: 6.1.90-1
>   Version table:
>  *** 6.1.90-1 500
> 500 http://security.debian.org bookworm-security/main amd64 Packages
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>  6.1.76-1 500
> 500 https://mirror.debian.example/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages
>  6.1.67-1 500
> 500 https://mirror.debian.example/debian bookworm-updates/main amd64 
> Packages

I also double-checked, and 6.1.0-13 is indeed the ABI version
immediately preceding the kernel bugs incident. The kernels affected
by that in mainline Debian were 6.1.0-14/6.1.64* and 6.1.0-15/6.1.66*;
the latter by unrelated bug #1057967 which may or may not affect you.
This further reinforces my belief that the problem is likely to be an
errant apt pin meant to exclude those kernels from being installed
accidentally, and which ended up matching too much. (The other obvious
possibility would be that the mirror you're using stopped updating
around that time, but frankly that seems less likely, especially if
you are seeing the same behavior across two different hosting
providers.)

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[James H. H. Lampert]

I will say that one should probably not expect perfection from an email 
reader that's named after a cheap wine.


In my experience, T-Bird is the worst email reader I've ever used . . . 
except for *every other* email reader (without a single exception) I've 
tried. I'm particularly irritated with those that have no way to disable 
HTML rendering, and those that have no way to send properly formatted 
plain-text-only emails, those that try to trick you into top-posting, 
and (especially) those mobile email readers that waste finite processor 
resources by insisting on checking your email even when closed.


Compared to that, dealing with T-Bird's imperfections is a walk in the park.

--
JHHL
(who still hasn't figured out why Ford named a car, and the Air Force 
named its demonstration team, after that same cheap wine)

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[David Christensen]

On 6/2/24 21:35, DdB wrote:

Am 02.06.2024 um 02:41 schrieb DdB:

Will share my findings, once i made more progress...


Here is what i've got before utilizing it:



datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ cat test
#!/bin/bash -e
# testing usefulness of coprocess to control host and backup machine from a 
single script.
# beware: do not use subprocesses or pipes, as that will confuse the pipes 
setup by coproc!
# At this point, this interface may not be very flexible
# but trying to follow best practices for using coproc in bash scripts
# todo (deferred): how to handle stderr inside coproc?
# todo (deferred): what, if coproc dies unexpectedly?

# setting up the coprocess:
stdout_to_ssh_stdin=5 # arbitrary choice outside the range of used file 
desciptors
stdin_from_ssh_stdout=6

coproc SSH { bash; } # for testing purposes, i refrain from really 
involving ssh just yet and replace it with bash:

# save filedescriptors by duplicating them:
eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&${SSH[0]} 
${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>&${SSH[1]}"
echo The PID of the coproc is: $SSH_PID # possibly useful for inspection

unique_eof_delimirer=""
line=""
# collect the output available and print it locally (synchonous):
function print-immediate-output () {
while IFS= read -r -u "${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}" line
do
if [[ "${line:0-5:5}" == "$unique_eof_delimirer" ]] # currently, 
the length is fixed
then
line="${line%}"
if [[ ! -z $line ]]
then
printf '%s\n' "$line"
fi
break
fi
printf '%s\n' "$line"
done
}

# send a single command via ssh and print output locally
function send-single-ssh-command () {
printf '%s\n' "$@" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
printf '%s\n' "echo '"$unique_eof_delimirer"'" 
>&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
print-immediate-output
}


send-single-ssh-command "find . -maxdepth 1 -name [a-z]\*" # more or less a 
standard command, that succeeds
send-single-ssh-command "ls nothin" # more or less a standard command, that 
fails

# tearing down the coprocess:
printf "%s\n" "exit" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}" # not interested in any 
more output (probably none)
wait
# Descriptors must be closed to prevent leaking.
eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&- ${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>-"

echo "waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done"

datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ ./test
The PID of the coproc is: 28154
./test
./out
ls: Zugriff auf 'nothin' nicht möglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done
datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$



"test" is both a program and a shell builtin.  I suggest that you pick 
another, non-keyword, name for your script.



I suggest adding the Bash option "-u' (nounset).


Your file descriptor duplication, redirection, etc., seems overly 
complex.  Would not it be easier to use the coproc handles directly?


2024-06-03 08:49:41 dpchrist@laalaa ~/sandbox/bash
$ nl coproc-demo
 1  #!/usr/bin/env bash
 2  # $Id: coproc-demo,v 1.3 2024/06/03 15:49:36 dpchrist Exp $
 3  set -e
 4  set -u
 5  coproc COPROC { bash ; }
 6  echo 'echo "hello, world!"' >&"${COPROC[1]}"
 7  read -r reply <&"${COPROC[0]}"
 8  echo $reply
 9  echo "exit" >&"${COPROC[1]}"
10  wait $COPROC_PID

2024-06-03 08:49:44 dpchrist@laalaa ~/sandbox/bash
$ bash -x coproc-demo
+ set -e
+ set -u
+ echo 'echo "hello, world!"'
+ bash
+ read -r reply
+ echo hello, 'world!'
hello, world!
+ echo exit
+ wait 4229


David

Re: alt-~ in xfce

[eben]

On 6/3/24 10:34, Dan Ritter wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:

(Debian sid)

Can alt-~ in  XFCE switch windows of the same application?



Settings -> Window Manager -> Keyboard
Find "Switch window for same application".

Tap "Edit"

Type alt ~

Try it out.


Ah, by default it's ctrl-alt-tab.

--

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
  and he who dares not is a slave.  -Sir William Drummond

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 09:15 Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>
wrote:
...

> > I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64
>
...

> Something's broken on your end.

...

Check your apt pins to ensure that you're not
> blocking too much.


Thanks, Michael.

My system is a remote host, and I'm in the process of a reinstall on one.

If I correctly read the links you sent, the latest kernel has that CVE
covered.

But another remote host seems to have the same problem. Each host comes
from a different provider and had slightly different default pinnings in
'/etc/apt/sources.list'.

I'll double-check my pinnings.

-Tom

Re: alt-~ in xfce

[Dan Ritter]

Paul Scott wrote: 
> (Debian sid)
> 
> Can alt-~ in  XFCE switch windows of the same application?


Settings -> Window Manager -> Keyboard
Find "Switch window for same application".

Tap "Edit"

Type alt ~

Try it out.

-dsr-

Re: tree with dir size

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 03:52:54PM +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:
> "tree" detects that its std output goes through a pipe and
> therefore it disables the escaped code to colorize (like also
> "dmesg" does). To avoid this behavior you must use the "unbuffer"
> command:
> 
> unbuffer tree --du -Fah /usr/local | grep /$

If that's the only thing you're using unbuffer for, why not just use
the -C option of tree? It's a bit like the "--color=always" of ls.

> You can also try:
> 
> ~# unbuffer dmesg | grep snd

Similarly dmesg has "--color=always".

I guess one advantage of unbuffer for this purpose is that you don't
need for an option to exist or to know what it is if it does.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: tree with dir size

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 03:52:54PM +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:
> On 31/05/24 at 22:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > It could be improved adding the "-a" switch to show also the hidden
> > > directories and the "--color" switch to the "grep" command but this sadly
> > > doesn't show the expected result (colorized directories) I don't know why:
> > > 
> > > ~$ tree --du -Fah /tmp/x | grep --color /$
> > You're only coloring the trailing / characters.  If you want everything
> > from after the last space to the end of the line, you'd want:
> > 
> >  tree --du -Fh /usr/local | grep --color '[^[:space:]]*/$'
> 
> I realized why "tree" command doesn't colorized the directories: "tree"
> detects that its std output goes through a pipe and therefore it disables
> the escaped code to colorize (like also "dmesg" does).
> To avoid this behavior you must use the "unbuffer" command:
> 
> unbuffer tree --du -Fah /usr/local | grep /$

According to tree(1) there's a -C option which should force tree's
coloring to be always on, even when stdout goes to a pipe.  But tree
never colors anything for me, even with -C and no pipe, so I don't know
what else is needed.

> ...> If you want to avoid that, you can use xargs -0:
> > 
> > duhs() { printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh; }
> > 
> > As printf is a bash builtin, it can handle an unlimited number of
> > arguments.  So this form should work in all cases.
> 
> Thank you very much for revolutionizing my duhs() function, but sadly this
> version omits to show the hidden directories. Do you have a version that it
> shows also those directories? For me it's so hard to figure out what the
> "${1:-.}"/*/  block does.

"$1" is the first argument given to the function.  It can also be written
as "${1}".

"${1:-default}" is the first argument given to the function, *or* the
constant string 'default' if the first argument is empty or not given.
Therefore, "${1:-.}" is "the first argument, or default to . if no
argument is given".

Since that part is quoted, whatever value is used is taken as a string,
with no word splitting or globbing applied.  That means it will handle
directory names that contain spaces, asterisks, etc.

Given the glob "x"/*/ the shell will look for all the subdirectories
of "x".  The trailing / forces it to ignore anything that isn't a
directory.

You can see it in action:

hobbit:~$ printf '%s\n' /usr/local/*/
/usr/local/bin/
/usr/local/etc/
/usr/local/games/
/usr/local/include/
/usr/local/lib/
/usr/local/man/
/usr/local/sbin/
/usr/local/share/
/usr/local/src/
/usr/local/tcl8.6/

So, putting it all together, that glob says "all the subdirectories of
the first argument, or all the subdirectories of . if there was no
argument given".

Getting it to include directory names that begin with . is trickier.
The simplest way would be to turn on bash's dotglob option, and then
turn it off again at the end:

duhs() {
shopt -s dotglob
printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
shopt -u dotglob
}

But this assumes that the option was *not* already on when we entered
the function.  If it was on, we've just turned it off.  Another way to
do this, which doesn't permanently alter the option for the remainder
of the shell's lifetime, would be to wrap the function body in a subshell:

duhs() {
(
  shopt -s dotglob
  printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
)
}

The formatting choices here are legion.

There are a few other options, but they become increasingly arcane from
here.  The subshell is probably the most straightforward choice.  The
function is already forking child processes, so from a performance point
of view, adding a subshell won't be much worse.

I'll also throw in one last piece of information because if I don't,
someone else is likely to do it, without a good explanation.
Syntactically, the body of a shell function doesn't have to be enclosed
in curly braces.  The body can be any compound command, and a curly-brace
command group is just one example of a compound command.  A subshell is
another example.  So, it could also be written this way:

duhs() (
shopt -s dotglob
printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
)

I'm not personally fond of this.  It's extremely easy to overlook
the fact that the curly braces have been replaced with parentheses,
especially in certain fonts.  Nevertheless, some people like this.

Re: tree with dir size

[tomas]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 03:52:54PM +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:
> > > 
> > > ~$ tree --du -Fah /tmp/x | grep --color /$
> > You're only coloring the trailing / characters.  If you want everything
> > from after the last space to the end of the line, you'd want:
> > 
> >  tree --du -Fh /usr/local | grep --color '[^[:space:]]*/$'
> 
> I realized why "tree" command doesn't colorized the directories: "tree"
> detects that its std output goes through a pipe and therefore it disables
> the escaped code to colorize (like also "dmesg" does).

That's what the "-C" option to tree is for.

Cheers
-- 
  "if everything else fails, read the man page"
tomas


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 3 Jun 2024 08:40 -0500, from tom.brow...@gmail.com (Tom Browder):
> I keep getting emails concerning the serious kernel vulnerability in
> kernels 5.14 through 6.6.
> 
> I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64

Something's broken on your end.

Bookworm is currently at ABI 6.1.0-21 / kernel 6.1.90-1 since May 6
[1]. Bookworm Backports seems to have a 6.7.12 kernel.

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/linux-image-amd64

https://tracker.debian.org/news/1527641/accepted-linux-signed-amd64-61901-source-into-stable-security/

IIRC (but without having checked) 6.1.0-13 was around the kernel data
corruption bug incident. Check your apt pins to ensure that you're not
blocking too much.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: tree with dir size

[Franco Martelli]

Hi Greg,
(sorry for the answer's late but I turn off the PC during the weekend) :(

On 31/05/24 at 22:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:

It could be improved adding the "-a" switch to show also the hidden
directories and the "--color" switch to the "grep" command but this sadly
doesn't show the expected result (colorized directories) I don't know why:

~$ tree --du -Fah /tmp/x | grep --color /$

You're only coloring the trailing / characters.  If you want everything
from after the last space to the end of the line, you'd want:

 tree --du -Fh /usr/local | grep --color '[^[:space:]]*/$'


I realized why "tree" command doesn't colorized the directories: "tree" 
detects that its std output goes through a pipe and therefore it 
disables the escaped code to colorize (like also "dmesg" does).

To avoid this behavior you must use the "unbuffer" command:

unbuffer tree --du -Fah /usr/local | grep /$

You can also try:

~# unbuffer dmesg | grep snd

/usr/bin/unbuffer is part of the "expect" package.

...> If you want to avoid that, you can use xargs -0:


duhs() { printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh; }

As printf is a bash builtin, it can handle an unlimited number of
arguments.  So this form should work in all cases.


Thank you very much for revolutionizing my duhs() function, but sadly 
this version omits to show the hidden directories. Do you have a version 
that it shows also those directories? For me it's so hard to figure out 
what the  "${1:-.}"/*/  block does.

Again, is "man 7 glob" the right read or do you have a better one?

Cheers,
--
Franco Martelli

Bookworm and its kernel: any updates coming?

[Tom Browder]

I keep getting emails concerning the serious kernel vulnerability in
kernels 5.14 through 6.6.

I have not seen any updates and uname -a shows: 6.1.0-13-amd64

Anyone concerned?

-Tom

Re: alt-~ in xfce

[eben]

On 6/3/24 02:50, Paul Scott wrote:

(Debian sid)

Can alt-~ in  XFCE switch windows of the same application?


alt-tilde in XFCE does nothing, at least in my installation (XFCE 4.18)

--
Driscoll's Observation: The product of the IQs of each member
of a tech-support conversation is a constant.

-- Michael Driscoll on ASR

Re: configuração de teclado

[ayf]

Tente o seguinte comando:

dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

Tenho anotado mais os seguintes comandos, mas não lembro se precisei usar:

service keyboard-setup restart
udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=input --action=change

Em 02/06/2024 21:09, Galileu H. Oliveira escreveu:

Pessoal,
Não tive resposta, então vou insistir: alguém pode me ajudar a
reconfigurar o teclado? O laptop é um HP com teclado brasileiro do
tipo comum (cada computador tem um teclado um pouco
diferente, então é um teclado brasileiro comum mesmo; não dá para ser
mais específico).
Após algumas tentativas de dpkg-recofigure locales, keyboard e
console-data mal sucedidas, não consigo sequer logar, porque os
caracteres são de um teclado sei lá de onde. Nem meu nome de login
consigo teclar. Acho que a solução vai ser um boot via usb. Mas e daí?
Altero o quê para conseguir com que meu teclado seja adequadamente
compreendido? Obviamente, estou escrevendo isso de outro computador.
sds.
G.Paulo.


On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 09:59:15 -0300
"Galileu H. Oliveira"  wrote:


Vou tentar responder suas perguntas, mas não estou absolutamente certo
sobre todas as respostas, que entremeei ao texto. Mas agradeço a
tentativa de esclarecer o mistério.
Sds.
G.Paulo.

  On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 16:40:27 -0300
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA  wrote:


Le 27/04/2024 à 15:51, Galileu H. Oliveira a écrit :

Tenho Trixie instalado num notebook HP, mas estou com problemas no
teclado

E o teclado seria o quê, ABNT?

ABNT2. Mas no menu do dpkg-reconfigure não tem esta opção. Então, a
escolha mais ou menos óbvia é um Generic 10?-key PC.
   

tanto no do laptop quanto num Logitec wifi externo.

Mesma pergunta.

Idem, ABNT2.
   

Quando uso a interface gráfica, tudo vai bem e a configuração no
Gnome é "Portuguese (Brazil)".

Isso seria configuração de língua, mas qual a de teclado
especificamente?

Esta é exatamente a configuração de teclado. Refiro-me agora à
aplicação "Setings", cujo ícone no Gnome é uma roda dentada.
No Setings/Keyboard é exatamente isso que tem sob o "Input Sources".
Por outro lado, em Setings/System, sob "Region & Language" tenho
"Language Unspecified".
Há uma outra aplicação denominada "Tweaks" que não acrescenta
muito ao que já temos aqui.
Agora, veja, isso é o que eu consigo obter na interface gráfica do
Gnome, mas não tenho a menor ideia de em que arquivo estas coisas são
armazenadas (uma busca na Internet por pelo menos 1 hora não ajudou
muito).
Além disso, pouco importa o Gnome, KDE ou o que for, o problema reside
em ponto anterior, na configuração do teclado como o sistema vê logo
após o boot, ainda sem interface gráfica.
   

O problema está fora da interface gráfica, por exemplo, quando
entro num prompt de login após um ctrl+alt+F3 ou quando a
interface gráfica dá pau devido algum pacote "broken". Neste
caso, o teclado é... sei lá que teclado é esse! Por exemplo, ao
teclar '*' dá '(', ao teclar ';' dá '-' e por aí vai.
O /etc/default/keyboard é XKBMODEL="pc104"
XKBLAYOUT="pt"

Acho que selecionaste o teclado ISO de Portugal.

Não, não é o caso. a variávl XKBLAYOUT pode ser "pt", "br", "us" etc.;
a XKBVBARIANT pode ser "", "nativo" e 1000 outros, e o resultado é
sempre, rigorosamente, invariavelmente, repetidamente o mesmo.

   

Re: script ocaml utilisant module Unix

[didier gaumet]

Le 03/06/2024 à 11:31, Basile Starynkevitch a écrit :

Bonjour la liste

Sur mon système Debian Testing j'ai

  % /usr/bin/ocaml --version
   The OCaml toplevel, version 4.14.1

Sans utiliser opam je voudrais améliorer dans 
https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys/commit/dbf79c52dafd6b26d028c407c7339d1645ad8479 le script Create-RefPerSys.ocaml pour que le module Unix soit chargé


(et seules les distributions Linux m'intéressent)

Comment faire?

Cordialement


Bonjour

Avertissement: je ne connais strictement rien à Ocalm

bien qu'il semble être possible d'installer Ocalm sans Opam (le 
gestionnaire de paquets sources d'Ocalm), ça semble aussi amener des 
difficultés ou dysfonctionnements d'après les entrefilets trouvés sur 
internet.
En tout cas l'installation minimale d'Ocalm telle que recommandée par le 
site Ocalm.org implique l'installation d'Opam comme étape préalable:

https://ocaml.org/docs/installing-ocaml

Les paquets sources Ocaml relatifs à Unix sont là:
https://ocaml.org/packages/search?q=unix
peut-être regarder du côté de core-unix et base-unix (simple 
supposition, ce n'est peut-être pas ça)


La doc sur les modules (si il s'agit bien de modules au sens Ocalm du 
terme) et la façon de les utiliser est là, tu trouveras peut-être (je 
n'ai pas lu) un indice sur comment faire sans Opam:

https://ocaml.org/docs/modules

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Sat Jun 1, 2024 at 8:20 AM BST, DdB wrote:
> for years have i been using a self-made backup script, that did mount a
> drive via USB, performed all kinds of plausibility checks, before
> actually backing up incrementally. Finally verifying success and logging
> the activities while kicking the ISB drive out.

I'd keep using this for now, if I were you, and work on
implementing/fixing a replacement at the same time, and only stop doing
the simple solution when the newer solution has reached the same level
of reliability.

-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

script ocaml utilisant module Unix

[Basile Starynkevitch]

Bonjour la liste

Sur mon système Debian Testing j'ai

 % /usr/bin/ocaml --version
  The OCaml toplevel, version 4.14.1

Sans utiliser opam je voudrais améliorer dans 
https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys/commit/dbf79c52dafd6b26d028c407c7339d1645ad8479 
le script Create-RefPerSys.ocaml pour que le module Unix soit chargé


(et seules les distributions Linux m'intéressent)

Comment faire?

Cordialement

--
Basile Starynkevitch 
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
8 rue de la Faïencerie, 92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/ -gives my mobile number +33 6 8501 
See/voir:   https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys

Re: (Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[Camaleón]

El 2024-06-03 a las 04:24 +, Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena escribió:

>  EN PRINCIPIO: Disculpen el TOP Posting
> Todavía NO encontré la forma de que el editor de Yahoo Mail pueda hacer el 
> quoteo como manda la lista. 
> Perdonen.

(...)

?

Hombre... Si el editor «no puede», pues lo haces tú mismo, que para eso 
usas Debian y estarás más que capacitado para ubicar el cursor donde 
quieras (abajo/arriba) y añadir el nivel de cita «>» que necesites ;-)

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

alt-~ in xfce

[Paul Scott]

(Debian sid)

Can alt-~ in  XFCE switch windows of the same application?

TIA,

Paul

Re: (Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[Camaleón]

El 2024-06-02 a las 21:34 +0200, Juan carlos Rebate escribió:

> Hola, debo decir que para ser uno de los sistemas operativos más
> usados del mundo, tiene una horrible gestión de la documentación.

Peor aún es cuando quieres colaborar para subsanar o mejorar este 
tipo de cosas (documentación traducciones, mantener paquetes...).

Un caos. Terrible. Tedioso. Un horror.

Hay que tener una fuerza de volutad numantina para no sucumbir, pero en 
cierto modo, el esfuerzo tiene su encanto y lo que te (nos) da Debian 
no tiene precio :-)

> Tengo un problema de configuración de apache y la wiki aún hace
> referencia a php 5 en lugar de php 8 que es el soportado ahora. Existe
> alguna forma de obtener documentación actualizada de manera
> centralizada? no me gustaría tener que cambiar a Ubuntu Server por el
> tema dee snap y las actualizaciones obligatorias, gracias.

Buf... si se trata de un problema concreto, mejor si nos dices qué te 
pasa exaactamente para poder orientarte mejor en la búsqueda de 
documentación.

Mientras tanto:

Apache HTTP Server
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Apache_HTTP_Server

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[DdB]

Am 02.06.2024 um 02:41 schrieb DdB:
> Will share my findings, once i made more progress...

Here is what i've got before utilizing it:


> datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ cat test 
> #!/bin/bash -e
> # testing usefulness of coprocess to control host and backup machine from a 
> single script.
> # beware: do not use subprocesses or pipes, as that will confuse the pipes 
> setup by coproc!
> # At this point, this interface may not be very flexible
> # but trying to follow best practices for using coproc in bash scripts
> # todo (deferred): how to handle stderr inside coproc?
> # todo (deferred): what, if coproc dies unexpectedly?
> 
>   # setting up the coprocess:
>   stdout_to_ssh_stdin=5 # arbitrary choice outside the range of used file 
> desciptors
>   stdin_from_ssh_stdout=6
> 
>   coproc SSH { bash; } # for testing purposes, i refrain from really 
> involving ssh just yet and replace it with bash:
> 
>   # save filedescriptors by duplicating them:
>   eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&${SSH[0]} 
> ${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>&${SSH[1]}"
>   echo The PID of the coproc is: $SSH_PID # possibly useful for inspection
> 
> unique_eof_delimirer=""
> line=""
> # collect the output available and print it locally (synchonous):
> function print-immediate-output () {
>   while IFS= read -r -u "${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}" line
>   do
>   if [[ "${line:0-5:5}" == "$unique_eof_delimirer" ]] # currently, 
> the length is fixed
>   then
>   line="${line%}"
>   if [[ ! -z $line ]]
>   then
>   printf '%s\n' "$line"
>   fi
>   break
>   fi 
>   printf '%s\n' "$line"
>   done
> }
> 
> # send a single command via ssh and print output locally
> function send-single-ssh-command () {
>   printf '%s\n' "$@" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
>   printf '%s\n' "echo '"$unique_eof_delimirer"'" 
> >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
>   print-immediate-output
> }
> 
> 
> send-single-ssh-command "find . -maxdepth 1 -name [a-z]\*" # more or less a 
> standard command, that succeeds
> send-single-ssh-command "ls nothin" # more or less a standard command, that 
> fails
> 
>   # tearing down the coprocess:
>   printf "%s\n" "exit" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}" # not interested in any 
> more output (probably none)
>   wait
>   # Descriptors must be closed to prevent leaking.
>   eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&- ${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>-"
> 
>   echo "waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done"
> 
> datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ ./test
> The PID of the coproc is: 28154
> ./test
> ./out
> ls: Zugriff auf 'nothin' nicht möglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
> waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done
> datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ 

Re: (Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena]

 EN PRINCIPIO: Disculpen el TOP Posting
Todavía NO encontré la forma de que el editor de Yahoo Mail pueda hacer el 
quoteo como manda la lista. 
Perdonen.

Mira...
Debian NO sé (digo que NO sé, no que no lo sea) si es el SO más usados en el 
mundo. A mi me "parece" que es Windows. 
PERO... por lo que a MI respecta es el que es más seguro y estable. Lo instalas 
y te olvidas. Por lo menos YO me olvidé de tocarlo por 10 años hasta que tocó 
actualizar por motivos de que los navegadores ya estaban obsoletos y no se 
podían actualizar si no actualizabas el SO. Así que he tenido que actualizar el 
SO primero.
OJO... tengo varias máquinas en casa y muchas más en la oficina y ninguna de 
las que tiene un Linux ha fallado por años... IMPRESIONANTE.
En casa y en la oficina tenemos (casi por obligación profesional) máquinas con 
Windows... que dan muchos dolores de cabeza y son las que requieren estarle 
encima por cualquier cosa...

He probado varias distros Linux... así que conozco ahora a nivel usuario, antes 
a nivel profesional varias distros.

Debian tiene sus cosillas... las actualizaciones "Stable" suelen tener un poco 
de retraso, quizás sea un poco compliqueti de encontrar documentación... 
pero... funciona y no te rompe la paciencia.

Ahora... te puedo asegurar que los de Canonical con los Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu 
cada tanto se mandan unas macanas gigantescas que es para mandarlos a freir 
churros... después se enojan... (hace un tiempo se enojaron mucho conmigo 
porque les marqué un error garrafal)
Canonical ya se mandó la macana con esa interfaz Unity que era una porquería... 
insistieron años intentando "instalarla" en el mercado hasta que se dieron 
cuenta de que la gente se cambiaba a otras distros.
Ahora están tratando de imponer la "moda" del SNAP... otra porquería... te 
llena de basura el disco y para colmo los de Canonical te abordan la PC con 
programas que no quieres tener...

Mira...
Debian tiene sus cosillas... pero para server es lo mejorcito que hay y para 
estación de trabajo va muy bien. 
¿Te resulta difícil encontrar documentación? bueh... pregunta por aquí porque 
siempre hay gente mejores informados que yo dispuestos a ayudar. 
YO no te puedo ayudar en eso porque ahora estoy en "Modo usuario final" y me 
olvidé hasta de cómo se monta un disco (¡Una vergüenza!) Pero... sigue con 
Debian como server... es de lo mejorcito que hay.

Saludos.
 El domingo, 2 de junio de 2024, 04:35:34 p. m. ART, Juan carlos Rebate 
 escribió:  
 
 Hola, debo decir que para ser uno de los sistemas operativos más
usados del mundo, tiene una horrible gestión de la documentación.
Tengo un problema de configuración de apache y la wiki aún hace
referencia a php 5 en lugar de php 8 que es el soportado ahora. Existe
alguna forma de obtener documentación actualizada de manera
centralizada? no me gustaría tener que cambiar a Ubuntu Server por el
tema dee snap y las actualizaciones obligatorias, gracias.

  

Re: Tbird and square brackets in subject field - was - Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Max Nikulin]

On 03/06/2024 00:19, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:16, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:09, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:06, Bret Busby wrote:

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:


For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.

[...]

"Re: [GNC] Problem with New Account Creation"
is apparently not molested by Tbird.

[...]
"Re: [solved] Re: No login with Debian 12 ssh client, ssh-rsa key, 
Debian 8 sshd"

[...]

"[SECURITY] [DSA 5703-1] linux security update"

[...]

"Re: [Users] How to check if Bogofilter is still working?"


Relax. In the case of thunderbird the pattern is namely " (was:".

It is not configurable, but I do not expect significant rate of false 
positives. I do not see any problem with this behavior as the default. 
When subject is changed you see both old and new variants. In follow-ups 
it allows to keep subject concise without additional efforts from users. 
Messages still have links to all messages in the thread in the 
References header, so you may find original subject if you need it.


UI may offer to revert subject to the original one and I would consider 
it as an improvement.


Regexp in Emacs includes square bracket and variation of case. However 
there are more tunables:

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/gnus/message.el#n321
- `message-subject-trailing-was-query'
- `message-subject-trailing-was-ask-regexp'
- `message-subject-trailing-was-regexp'

I accidentally noticed stripping old subject part in another mailing 
list, so I was curious if "[WAS" in the FAQ follows another convention 
than thunderbird implements. Andrew clarified that it is just an example 
and it is intended for humans.


It seems thunderbird may add "(was:", but I have never used message 
templates.

Re: configuração de teclado

[Carlos Henrique Lima Melara]

Oi, G.Paulo.

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 03:51:09PM GMT, Galileu H. Oliveira wrote:
> Tenho Trixie instalado num notebook HP, mas estou com problemas no
> teclado, tanto no do laptop quanto num Logitec wifi externo.
> Quando uso a interface gráfica, tudo vai bem e a configuração no Gnome é
> "Portuguese (Brazil)".
> O problema está fora da interface gráfica, por exemplo, quando entro
> num prompt de login após um ctrl+alt+F3 ou quando a interface gráfica
> dá pau devido algum pacote "broken". Neste caso, o teclado é... sei lá
> que teclado é esse! Por exemplo, ao teclar '*' dá '(', ao teclar ';'
> dá '-' e por aí vai. O /etc/default/keyboard é 
> XKBMODEL="pc104"
> XKBLAYOUT="pt"
> XKBVARIANT=""
> XKBOPTIONS="terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> BACKSPACE="guess"
> 
> mas tentei diversas combinações de pc104, pc105 etc. e português,
> inglês etc., sempre com
>  # dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
>  # service keyboard-setup restart
> e todas resultam, ao que parece, no mesmo. Mas como a possibilidade
> de combinações de modelo e língua são infinitas, não dá para testar
> todas.
> Enfim, não sei o que fazer nesse ponto. Alguma sugestão?
> Só para mencionar, estou escrevendo de um Asus com Buster instalado e
> com exatamente a mesma configuração de teclado, e tudo corre muito bem.

Você chegou a ler a manpage keyboard (5) [1]? Ele indica alguns passos e
dá outras referências como rodar setupcon para ativar as mudanças no
console. Eu tenho um thinkpad e meu teclado funciona corretamente no
console. Meu /etc/default/keyboard é:

# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

# Consult the keyboard(5) manual page.

XKBMODEL="pc105"
XKBLAYOUT="br"
XKBVARIANT=""
XKBOPTIONS=""

BACKSPACE="guess"

Abraços,
Charles

[1] 
https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/keyboard-configuration/keyboard.5.en.html

Re: (Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[N4ch0]

On Sun Jun 2, 2024 at 4:34 PM -03, Juan carlos Rebate wrote:
> Hola, debo decir que para ser uno de los sistemas operativos más
> usados del mundo, tiene una horrible gestión de la documentación.
> Tengo un problema de configuración de apache y la wiki aún hace
> referencia a php 5 en lugar de php 8 que es el soportado ahora. Existe
> alguna forma de obtener documentación actualizada de manera
> centralizada? no me gustaría tener que cambiar a Ubuntu Server por el
> tema dee snap y las actualizaciones obligatorias, gracias.

En el handbook creo están al díaigual dudo te ayude para un problema
en particular que tengas.

Re: configuração de teclado

[Galileu H. Oliveira]

Pessoal,
Não tive resposta, então vou insistir: alguém pode me ajudar a
reconfigurar o teclado? O laptop é um HP com teclado brasileiro do
tipo comum (cada computador tem um teclado um pouco
diferente, então é um teclado brasileiro comum mesmo; não dá para ser
mais específico).
Após algumas tentativas de dpkg-recofigure locales, keyboard e
console-data mal sucedidas, não consigo sequer logar, porque os
caracteres são de um teclado sei lá de onde. Nem meu nome de login
consigo teclar. Acho que a solução vai ser um boot via usb. Mas e daí?
Altero o quê para conseguir com que meu teclado seja adequadamente
compreendido? Obviamente, estou escrevendo isso de outro computador.
sds.
G.Paulo.


On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 09:59:15 -0300
"Galileu H. Oliveira"  wrote:

> Vou tentar responder suas perguntas, mas não estou absolutamente certo
> sobre todas as respostas, que entremeei ao texto. Mas agradeço a
> tentativa de esclarecer o mistério.
> Sds.
> G.Paulo.
> 
>  On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 16:40:27 -0300
> Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA  wrote:
> 
> > Le 27/04/2024 à 15:51, Galileu H. Oliveira a écrit :  
> > > Tenho Trixie instalado num notebook HP, mas estou com problemas no
> > > teclado
> > 
> > E o teclado seria o quê, ABNT?  
> ABNT2. Mas no menu do dpkg-reconfigure não tem esta opção. Então, a
> escolha mais ou menos óbvia é um Generic 10?-key PC.
> > 
> >   
> > > tanto no do laptop quanto num Logitec wifi externo.
> > 
> > Mesma pergunta.  
> Idem, ABNT2.
> > 
> >   
> > > Quando uso a interface gráfica, tudo vai bem e a configuração no
> > > Gnome é "Portuguese (Brazil)".
> > 
> > Isso seria configuração de língua, mas qual a de teclado
> > especificamente?  
> Esta é exatamente a configuração de teclado. Refiro-me agora à
> aplicação "Setings", cujo ícone no Gnome é uma roda dentada. 
> No Setings/Keyboard é exatamente isso que tem sob o "Input Sources".
> Por outro lado, em Setings/System, sob "Region & Language" tenho
> "Language Unspecified".
> Há uma outra aplicação denominada "Tweaks" que não acrescenta
> muito ao que já temos aqui.
> Agora, veja, isso é o que eu consigo obter na interface gráfica do
> Gnome, mas não tenho a menor ideia de em que arquivo estas coisas são
> armazenadas (uma busca na Internet por pelo menos 1 hora não ajudou
> muito).
> Além disso, pouco importa o Gnome, KDE ou o que for, o problema reside
> em ponto anterior, na configuração do teclado como o sistema vê logo
> após o boot, ainda sem interface gráfica.
> > 
> >   
> > > O problema está fora da interface gráfica, por exemplo, quando
> > > entro num prompt de login após um ctrl+alt+F3 ou quando a
> > > interface gráfica dá pau devido algum pacote "broken". Neste
> > > caso, o teclado é... sei lá que teclado é esse! Por exemplo, ao
> > > teclar '*' dá '(', ao teclar ';' dá '-' e por aí vai.
> > > O /etc/default/keyboard é XKBMODEL="pc104"
> > > XKBLAYOUT="pt"
> > 
> > Acho que selecionaste o teclado ISO de Portugal.  
> Não, não é o caso. a variávl XKBLAYOUT pode ser "pt", "br", "us" etc.;
> a XKBVBARIANT pode ser "", "nativo" e 1000 outros, e o resultado é
> sempre, rigorosamente, invariavelmente, repetidamente o mesmo.
> 
> > 
> >   
> 

Re: (Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[Francisco Cid]

El dom, 2 jun 2024 a la(s) 3:35 p.m., Juan carlos Rebate (nerus...@gmail.com)
escribió:

> Hola, debo decir que para ser uno de los sistemas operativos más
> usados del mundo, tiene una horrible gestión de la documentación.
> Tengo un problema de configuración de apache y la wiki aún hace
> referencia a php 5 en lugar de php 8 que es el soportado ahora. Existe
> alguna forma de obtener documentación actualizada de manera
> centralizada? no me gustaría tener que cambiar a Ubuntu Server por el
> tema dee snap y las actualizaciones obligatorias, gracias.
>


si hacen referencia a una versión más antigua lo más conveniente es revisar
directamente la documentación del proyecto, en este caso apache
https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/
Saludos,

 Francisco Cid

Re: SeaMonkey et al - was - Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 04:14, Chris M wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird



allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if

you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you
can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font
for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other
Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 -
if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not
be using the font you think you've set.

< SNIP >


BACK STORY:

This all started this last night on the TDE ( Trinity Desktop) mail 
list:


Felix here got to talking about Seamonkey, and it got me interested 
in what it was up to, and I thought " I haven't tried SM in years, 
let me download it"


Well, The browser barely works.=-O:-(

But, The email client that I am typing this email in right now, is 
SeaMonkey's mail client and I am LOVING IT, it reminds me of my 
beloved Netscape Navigator email

client that I use to use back on XP, before AOL killed off Netscape. >:o

Ohhh Yes, I was a huge Netscape fan back then! 8-)O:-)

I was mad for a long time after AOL killed off Netscape 9. I don't 
even remember when that happened? 2008? 2009?


So, I got the email client set up but replies from a certain person 
were TINY TINY TINY.


Interesting enough, Felix I just opened an email from DEP and went to 
"VIEW MESSAGE SOURCE"


and scrolled through the text and found out that DEP ( That's a user 
over on the TDE list ) is in fact using UTF-8.


"Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64"

Then, I just so happen to come across this plug in and WOW, what a 
difference!


I am guessing that everybody else uses regular TB, and me and Felix 
are the only ones that still cling

to Seamonkey?



I use SeaMonkey, with javash*** disabled. Uses much less resources, 
and, less likely to crash.


I use Fartyfox for stuff that requires javash***, and, in that, I have 
a number of security and privacy add-ons; I think, for SeaMonkey, I 
have only the Bluhell firewall add-on and the English-GB dictionary. I 
have and use multiple other web browsers, including Epiphany, Vivaldi, 
and Pale Moon (which I have not used for a while), but, mainly use 
SeaMonkey and Fartyfox.


For email, I use Tbird as a webmail kind of application, for viewing 
and responding to recent email, and, for downloading email, storing, 
archiving, and, responding to old email, I use the most powerful email 
application that I have found; alpine, previously known as pine. I use 
claws mail for one of my email accounts that does not have much 
throughput.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..



I've got a soft spot for Evolution ( Due to loving the OLD Outlook-- 
Circa 2003) and now SeaMonkey.


Claws-Mail is " eh, okay" but makes forwarding emails with HTML in them 
a PITA.



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: [ SOLVED ] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:


Hello, Chris.

We appear to be 13 hours ahead of you (see my signature), so, the time 
here, is now about 0430. I am a creature of the night.







OH man, 4:30 AM! That's way too early for me!





Andika?  Search for it in Synaptic...
:)

I am not sure whether apt find still works.

Package name is fonts-sil-andika

I use only the basic Andika font.



   Ah, okay... Thanks!

   
   THANKS IN ADVANCE!

   CHRIS

   ch...@cwm030.com

   * Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

   ~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

SeaMonkey et al - was - Re: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 04:14, Chris M wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird



allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if

you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you
can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font
for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other
Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 -
if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not
be using the font you think you've set.

< SNIP >


BACK STORY:

This all started this last night on the TDE ( Trinity Desktop) mail list:

Felix here got to talking about Seamonkey, and it got me interested in 
what it was up to, and I thought " I haven't tried SM in years, let me 
download it"


Well, The browser barely works.=-O:-(

But, The email client that I am typing this email in right now, is 
SeaMonkey's mail client and I am LOVING IT, it reminds me of my beloved 
Netscape Navigator email

client that I use to use back on XP, before AOL killed off Netscape. >:o

Ohhh Yes, I was a huge Netscape fan back then! 8-)O:-)

I was mad for a long time after AOL killed off Netscape 9. I don't even 
remember when that happened? 2008? 2009?


So, I got the email client set up but replies from a certain person were 
TINY TINY TINY.


Interesting enough, Felix I just opened an email from DEP and went to 
"VIEW MESSAGE SOURCE"


and scrolled through the text and found out that DEP ( That's a user 
over on the TDE list ) is in fact using UTF-8.


"Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64"

Then, I just so happen to come across this plug in and WOW, what a difference!

I am guessing that everybody else uses regular TB, and me and Felix are the 
only ones that still cling
to Seamonkey?



I use SeaMonkey, with javash*** disabled. Uses much less resources, and, 
less likely to crash.


I use Fartyfox for stuff that requires javash***, and, in that, I have a 
number of security and privacy add-ons; I think, for SeaMonkey, I have 
only the Bluhell firewall add-on and the English-GB dictionary. I have 
and use multiple other web browsers, including Epiphany, Vivaldi, and 
Pale Moon (which I have not used for a while), but, mainly use SeaMonkey 
and Fartyfox.


For email, I use Tbird as a webmail kind of application, for viewing and 
responding to recent email, and, for downloading email, storing, 
archiving, and, responding to old email, I use the most powerful email 
application that I have found; alpine, previously known as pine. I use 
claws mail for one of my email accounts that does not have much throughput.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: [ SOLVED ] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 03:56, Chris M wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:


Whilst, at groups.io, two different Tbird email users lists exist; one 
for blind people, and, the other, for those of us who still have 
sufficient sight, and, these messages about Tbird, should, more 
properly, be directed to the Tbird users lists, try the following.


In the Edit -> Settings (that is, Tbird settings, not Account 
settings),  I have


Fonts for (Latin)
Proportional: (Sans-serif)  Size (20)
Serif: Andika
Sans-serif: Andika
Monospace: Andika Size (20)

Font Control
Allow messages to use other fonts - unchecked
Use fixed width font for plain text messages - unchecked

You might prefer a different font to Andika - that is my preference, 
as the most natural font (other than Clean, if someone finds it)


But, try those settings, and find whether that works for you, also. 
They seem to work for me.

Minimum font size: 20




G'DAY BRET! ( err, its prob the middle of the night over there) It's 
2:54 PM CDT here in the US.


But Anyhoo:

Interesting, I don't have that "Andika" font on my PC. Where did you 
find that font at?




Hello, Chris.

We appear to be 13 hours ahead of you (see my signature), so, the time 
here, is now about 0430. I am a creature of the night.


Andika?  Search for it in Synaptic...
:)

I am not sure whether apt find still works.

Package name is fonts-sil-andika

I use only the basic Andika font.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

[ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Felix Miata wrote:

It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird



allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if

you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you
can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font
for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other
Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 -
if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not
be using the font you think you've set.

< SNIP >


BACK STORY:

This all started this last night on the TDE ( Trinity Desktop) mail list:

Felix here got to talking about Seamonkey, and it got me interested in 
what it was up to, and I thought " I haven't tried SM in years, let me 
download it"


Well, The browser barely works.=-O:-(

But, The email client that I am typing this email in right now, is 
SeaMonkey's mail client and I am LOVING IT, it reminds me of my beloved 
Netscape Navigator email

client that I use to use back on XP, before AOL killed off Netscape. >:o

Ohhh Yes, I was a huge Netscape fan back then! 8-)O:-)

I was mad for a long time after AOL killed off Netscape 9. I don't even 
remember when that happened? 2008? 2009?


So, I got the email client set up but replies from a certain person were 
TINY TINY TINY.


Interesting enough, Felix I just opened an email from DEP and went to 
"VIEW MESSAGE SOURCE"


and scrolled through the text and found out that DEP ( That's a user 
over on the TDE list ) is in fact using UTF-8.


"Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64"

Then, I just so happen to come across this plug in and WOW, what a difference!

I am guessing that everybody else uses regular TB, and me and Felix are the 
only ones that still cling
to Seamonkey?


THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

[ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:


For

Language
Choose the languages used to display menus, messages, and 
notifications from Thunderbird.


I have set English (GB) which, I expect, will confound anything that 
tries to impose characters that are not what I want.



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.


So, I am guessing that any ENGLISH speaking country uses UTF-8?

US, GB ( Canada, Australia, Probably South Africa, uses GB for spell 
checking)


If not, then what happens to my email? Is it shown in a different font, 
than what you have specified on your end?



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

[ SOLVED ] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Darac Marjal wrote:
It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. 
Thunderbird allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing 
system (e.g. if you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or 
Khmer messages, you can do). For English and comparable languages, you 
want to set a font for "Latin" writing system. However, note that 
there is also "Other Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these 
emails aren't UTF-8 - if they're some strange Windows encoding, for 
example - they might not be using the font you think you've set.




Good Point!



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

[ SOLVED ] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:


Whilst, at groups.io, two different Tbird email users lists exist; one 
for blind people, and, the other, for those of us who still have 
sufficient sight, and, these messages about Tbird, should, more 
properly, be directed to the Tbird users lists, try the following.


In the Edit -> Settings (that is, Tbird settings, not Account 
settings),  I have


Fonts for (Latin)
Proportional: (Sans-serif)  Size (20)
Serif: Andika
Sans-serif: Andika
Monospace: Andika Size (20)

Font Control
Allow messages to use other fonts - unchecked
Use fixed width font for plain text messages - unchecked

You might prefer a different font to Andika - that is my preference, 
as the most natural font (other than Clean, if someone finds it)


But, try those settings, and find whether that works for you, also. 
They seem to work for me.

Minimum font size: 20




G'DAY BRET! ( err, its prob the middle of the night over there) It's 
2:54 PM CDT here in the US.


But Anyhoo:

Interesting, I don't have that "Andika" font on my PC. Where did you 
find that font at?




THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

[ SOLVED ] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

UPDATE:

I might of found a solution to my problem:

I somehow stumbled across:

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/seamonkey/addon/no-small-text/?src=search

Then launched Seamonkey browser and set the " NO SMALL TEXT" settings to:

https://imgur.com/a/DvJaTeG


If you're in the US scroll down to " WESTERN FONTS" and set it to:

https://imgur.com/a/Zdvt0eB


And... VIOLA!

https://imgur.com/a/PaidqMN



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Felix Miata]

Darac Marjal composed on 2024-06-02T20:01 (UTC+0100):

> Chris M wrote:

>> I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the 
>> text is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't 
>> figure out what to change to make the text a little bigger without 
>> having to use CTRL ++ on those certain emails.

>> Any ideas on how?

> It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird 
> allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if 
> you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you 
> can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font 
> for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other 
> Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 - 
> if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not 
> be using the font you think you've set.

Font size prefs are in file prefs.js in the profile's root directory. I'll bet
Darac's list is much shorter than mine:
> grep font.size prefs.js
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-central-euro", 18);
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-cyrillic", 18);
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-unicode", 18);
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-user-def", 18);
user_pref("font.size.fixed.x-western", 18);
user_pref("font.size.fixed.zh-CN", 18);
user_pref("font.size.variable.ja", 18);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-central-euro", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-cyrillic", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-unicode", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-user-def", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.x-western", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.zh-CN", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.zh-HK", 20);
user_pref("font.size.variable.zh-TW", 20);
>
Open about:config to see those that remain at 16 or 12 default grossly outnumber
any you have set. The file only contains those that have been changed from 
default
16 for variable and 12 or 13 for fixed. About:config lists all that are provided
by default.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

(Oftopic) documentación completamente obsoleta

[Juan carlos Rebate]

Hola, debo decir que para ser uno de los sistemas operativos más
usados del mundo, tiene una horrible gestión de la documentación.
Tengo un problema de configuración de apache y la wiki aún hace
referencia a php 5 en lugar de php 8 que es el soportado ahora. Existe
alguna forma de obtener documentación actualizada de manera
centralizada? no me gustaría tener que cambiar a Ubuntu Server por el
tema dee snap y las actualizaciones obligatorias, gracias.

Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 03:01, Darac Marjal wrote:


On 02/06/2024 19:03, Chris M wrote:
I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the 
text is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't 
figure out what to change to make the text a little bigger without 
having to use CTRL ++ on those certain emails.


Any ideas on how?


It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird 
allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if 
you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you 
can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font 
for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other 
Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 - 
if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not 
be using the font you think you've set.





Here is an example:

Original:
https://imgur.com/a/mFfgBLh


After hitting "CTRL +" 1 time:
https://imgur.com/a/eK1mERq



For

Language
Choose the languages used to display menus, messages, and notifications 
from Thunderbird.


I have set English (GB) which, I expect, will confound anything that 
tries to impose characters that are not what I want.



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Darac Marjal]

On 02/06/2024 19:03, Chris M wrote:
I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the 
text is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't 
figure out what to change to make the text a little bigger without 
having to use CTRL ++ on those certain emails.


Any ideas on how?


It might be worth checking what language the emails are in. Thunderbird 
allows you to specify fonts separately for each writing system (e.g. if 
you want to specify fonts for Japanese or Greek or Khmer messages, you 
can do). For English and comparable languages, you want to set a font 
for "Latin" writing system. However, note that there is also "Other 
Writing Systems" so I can imagine that, if these emails aren't UTF-8 - 
if they're some strange Windows encoding, for example - they might not 
be using the font you think you've set.





Here is an example:

Original:
https://imgur.com/a/mFfgBLh


After hitting "CTRL +" 1 time:
https://imgur.com/a/eK1mERq



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~



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Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 02:47, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 02:31, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/2/24 14:03, Chris M wrote:
I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the 
text

is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't figure
out what to change to make the text a little bigger without having to 
use

CTRL ++ on those certain emails.

Any ideas on how?


Yeah, I usually have to hit ^+ 4-5 times to make the text a reasonable 
size.

  I don't know why.



Whilst, at groups.io, two different Tbird email users lists exist; one 
for blind people, and, the other, for those of us who still have 
sufficient sight, and, these messages about Tbird, should, more 
properly, be directed to the Tbird users lists, try the following.


In the Edit -> Settings (that is, Tbird settings, not Account settings), 
  I have


Fonts for (Latin)
Proportional: (Sans-serif)  Size (20)
Serif: Andika
Sans-serif: Andika
Monospace: Andika Size (20)

Font Control
Allow messages to use other fonts - unchecked
Use fixed width font for plain text messages - unchecked

You might prefer a different font to Andika - that is my preference, as 
the most natural font (other than Clean, if someone finds it)


But, try those settings, and find whether that works for you, also. They 
seem to work for me.

Minimum font size: 20



Sorry - two sets of things that I missed in my above message.

1, In the Edit -> Settings, it is further
-> General -> Language and Appearance -> Fonts and Colours -> Advanced
(with Default font set to Andika, Default font size set to 20)

2. Also, further to the above setting, is the part

Plain Text Messages
Display emoticons as graphics (I have that checked, but others may not 
so want it)

When displaying quoted plain text messages:
Style: (Regular) Size: (Regular)


Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 02:31, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/2/24 14:03, Chris M wrote:

I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the text
is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't figure
out what to change to make the text a little bigger without having to use
CTRL ++ on those certain emails.

Any ideas on how?


Yeah, I usually have to hit ^+ 4-5 times to make the text a reasonable 
size.

  I don't know why.



Whilst, at groups.io, two different Tbird email users lists exist; one 
for blind people, and, the other, for those of us who still have 
sufficient sight, and, these messages about Tbird, should, more 
properly, be directed to the Tbird users lists, try the following.


In the Edit -> Settings (that is, Tbird settings, not Account settings), 
 I have


Fonts for (Latin)
Proportional: (Sans-serif)  Size (20)
Serif: Andika
Sans-serif: Andika
Monospace: Andika Size (20)

Font Control
Allow messages to use other fonts - unchecked
Use fixed width font for plain text messages - unchecked

You might prefer a different font to Andika - that is my preference, as 
the most natural font (other than Clean, if someone finds it)


But, try those settings, and find whether that works for you, also. They 
seem to work for me.

Minimum font size: 20


Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[eben]

On 6/2/24 14:03, Chris M wrote:

I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the text
is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't figure
out what to change to make the text a little bigger without having to use
CTRL ++ on those certain emails.

Any ideas on how?


Yeah, I usually have to hit ^+ 4-5 times to make the text a reasonable size.
 I don't know why.

--
My sympathy for your plight is directly proportional
to your ability to accept reality. -- 2020-07-27

Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ) topic... Text Size

[Chris M]

I noticed that in SeaMonkey Mail's latest version 2.53.18.2 that the 
text is small in SOME emails, and in some emails its fine. And I can't 
figure out what to change to make the text a little bigger without 
having to use CTRL ++ on those certain emails.


Any ideas on how?

Here is an example:

Original:
https://imgur.com/a/mFfgBLh


After hitting "CTRL +" 1 time:
https://imgur.com/a/eK1mERq



THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: Tbird and square brackets in subject field - was - Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 01:16, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:09, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:06, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 00:52, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your 
email

accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.


This is true.  I (on Thunderbird 115) had to restore the subject 
line after
Thunderbird modified it.  Do you know of a plugin or weird setting 
to make

it stop doing that?  Web searches were fruitless.

--
A mob with torches and pitchforks approaches the castle.
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
"Yeah, disgusting, aren't they?"

I am using Tbird "115.11.0 (64-bit)" and, in checking, have found 
that square brackets are apparently not molested in this version of 
Tbird.


In checking in my Inbox, for email from a mailing list that uses 
mailing list name subject field prepending, I observed that the 
GnuCash mailing list uses such prepending, and the subject line

"Re: [GNC] Problem with New Account Creation"
is apparently not molested by Tbird.


Similarly, with this (the Debian users) list,
"Re: [solved] Re: No login with Debian 12 ssh client, ssh-rsa key, 
Debian 8 sshd"

and
"Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?"
appear to be unmolested by Tbird.

Whilst I regard Tbird after v102.x, as a pile of faecal matter, 
having been downgraded from v102.x (the higher the version number, 
the greater the degree of downgrading), the reported problem 
involving square brackets in the subject field, is not apparent on 
this system, making me wonder whether the reported problem, is an 
effect of either affected users' settings, or, desktop environments, 
or, themes.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Sorry - I should have changed the subject field value, in my last 
previous post, to more properly refer to where this thread has gone.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


Similarly to the above examples; just came through - the subject field
"[SECURITY] [DSA 5703-1] linux security update"
is also unmolested by Tbird.

And, that has two sets of square brackets.



Also, from the claws-mail users mailing list;
"Re: [Users] How to check if Bogofilter is still working?"

...

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Tbird and square brackets in subject field - was - Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 01:09, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 01:06, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 00:52, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your 
email

accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.


This is true.  I (on Thunderbird 115) had to restore the subject line 
after
Thunderbird modified it.  Do you know of a plugin or weird setting to 
make

it stop doing that?  Web searches were fruitless.

--
A mob with torches and pitchforks approaches the castle.
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
"Yeah, disgusting, aren't they?"

I am using Tbird "115.11.0 (64-bit)" and, in checking, have found that 
square brackets are apparently not molested in this version of Tbird.


In checking in my Inbox, for email from a mailing list that uses 
mailing list name subject field prepending, I observed that the 
GnuCash mailing list uses such prepending, and the subject line

"Re: [GNC] Problem with New Account Creation"
is apparently not molested by Tbird.


Similarly, with this (the Debian users) list,
"Re: [solved] Re: No login with Debian 12 ssh client, ssh-rsa key, 
Debian 8 sshd"

and
"Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?"
appear to be unmolested by Tbird.

Whilst I regard Tbird after v102.x, as a pile of faecal matter, having 
been downgraded from v102.x (the higher the version number, the 
greater the degree of downgrading), the reported problem involving 
square brackets in the subject field, is not apparent on this system, 
making me wonder whether the reported problem, is an effect of either 
affected users' settings, or, desktop environments, or, themes.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Sorry - I should have changed the subject field value, in my last 
previous post, to more properly refer to where this thread has gone.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


Similarly to the above examples; just came through - the subject field
"[SECURITY] [DSA 5703-1] linux security update"
is also unmolested by Tbird.

And, that has two sets of square brackets.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Tbird and square brackets in subject field - was - Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 01:06, Bret Busby wrote:

On 3/6/24 00:52, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.


This is true.  I (on Thunderbird 115) had to restore the subject line 
after
Thunderbird modified it.  Do you know of a plugin or weird setting to 
make

it stop doing that?  Web searches were fruitless.

--
A mob with torches and pitchforks approaches the castle.
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
"Yeah, disgusting, aren't they?"

I am using Tbird "115.11.0 (64-bit)" and, in checking, have found that 
square brackets are apparently not molested in this version of Tbird.


In checking in my Inbox, for email from a mailing list that uses mailing 
list name subject field prepending, I observed that the GnuCash mailing 
list uses such prepending, and the subject line

"Re: [GNC] Problem with New Account Creation"
is apparently not molested by Tbird.


Similarly, with this (the Debian users) list,
"Re: [solved] Re: No login with Debian 12 ssh client, ssh-rsa key, 
Debian 8 sshd"

and
"Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?"
appear to be unmolested by Tbird.

Whilst I regard Tbird after v102.x, as a pile of faecal matter, having 
been downgraded from v102.x (the higher the version number, the greater 
the degree of downgrading), the reported problem involving square 
brackets in the subject field, is not apparent on this system, making me 
wonder whether the reported problem, is an effect of either affected 
users' settings, or, desktop environments, or, themes.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Sorry - I should have changed the subject field value, in my last 
previous post, to more properly refer to where this thread has gone.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/24 00:52, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.


This is true.  I (on Thunderbird 115) had to restore the subject line after
Thunderbird modified it.  Do you know of a plugin or weird setting to make
it stop doing that?  Web searches were fruitless.

--
A mob with torches and pitchforks approaches the castle.
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
"Yeah, disgusting, aren't they?"

I am using Tbird "115.11.0 (64-bit)" and, in checking, have found that 
square brackets are apparently not molested in this version of Tbird.


In checking in my Inbox, for email from a mailing list that uses mailing 
list name subject field prepending, I observed that the GnuCash mailing 
list uses such prepending, and the subject line

"Re: [GNC] Problem with New Account Creation"
is apparently not molested by Tbird.


Similarly, with this (the Debian users) list,
"Re: [solved] Re: No login with Debian 12 ssh client, ssh-rsa key, 
Debian 8 sshd"

and
"Re: [Solved]: What DE to replace GNOME with?"
appear to be unmolested by Tbird.

Whilst I regard Tbird after v102.x, as a pile of faecal matter, having 
been downgraded from v102.x (the higher the version number, the greater 
the degree of downgrading), the reported problem involving square 
brackets in the subject field, is not apparent on this system, making me 
wonder whether the reported problem, is an effect of either affected 
users' settings, or, desktop environments, or, themes.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Parenthesis or square brackets and "was" (was: Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (last modified 20240501))

[eben]

On 6/1/24 23:02, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject.


This is true.  I (on Thunderbird 115) had to restore the subject line after
Thunderbird modified it.  Do you know of a plugin or weird setting to make
it stop doing that?  Web searches were fruitless.

--
A mob with torches and pitchforks approaches the castle.
"Sire, the peasants are revolting!"
"Yeah, disgusting, aren't they?"

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

If it where an issue with pip or pipx, yes. But as you pointed out
yourself, it's also happening on OpenSuse, so the issue can't be pip or
pipx, but rather either what you are trying to install or your
understanding of it.


Am So., 2. Juni 2024 um 14:20 Uhr schrieb Richmond :

> I am not complaining, I am trying to find out how to get it working. And
> as pip (and pipx) are debian packages I think it is reasonable to
> discuss it on the debian user list.
>
>

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> python3 -m venv venv
> source venv/bin/activate
> pip install musicpy

OK thanks. And apparently to get idle working I do:

python -m idlelib.idle

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:


> That's how its done. Also, complaining here about something that
> doesn't even work on other distros and thus can't be a Debian
> problem doesn't make that much sense.

I am not complaining, I am trying to find out how to get it working. And
as pip (and pipx) are debian packages I think it is reasonable to
discuss it on the debian user list.

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

python3 -m venv venv
source venv/bin/activate
pip install musicpy

That's how its done. Also, complaining here about something that doesn't
even work on other distros and thus can't be a Debian problem doesn't make
that much sense.

Am So., 2. Juni 2024 um 13:50 Uhr schrieb Richmond :

> OK Back on Debian, I removed the one package installed with pipx, which
> was musicpy, then tried to install it with pip, but got this message
> which actually tells me to use pipx. (There is no package python-musicpy).
>
> pip install musicpy
> error: externally-managed-environment
>
> × This environment is externally managed
> ╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
> python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
> install.
>
> If you wish to install a non-Debian-packaged Python package,
> create a virtual environment using python3 -m venv path/to/venv.
> Then use path/to/venv/bin/python and path/to/venv/bin/pip. Make
> sure you have python3-full installed.
>
> If you wish to install a non-Debian packaged Python application,
> it may be easiest to use pipx install xyz, which will manage a
> virtual environment for you. Make sure you have pipx installed.
>
> See /usr/share/doc/python3.11/README.venv for more information.
>
>

Re: Help! secure boot is preventing boot of debian

[Richmond]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> Richmond wrote:
>> OK I got it booted and re-installed grub from debian. But I don't
>> know why it happened, I haven't changed any keys or done anything
>> except an opensuse update. I will ask the opensuse list
>
> I remember to have seen discussions about newly installed shim adding
> names of older shims or bootloaders to something called SBAT.  I find
> in my mailbox a mail with a link to
> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1209985
>
> About SBAT i found in the web:
>   
> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/Secure-Boot-Advanced-Targeting.html
>   https://github.com/rhboot/shim/blob/main/SBAT.md
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas

Thanks. They have a wiki on how to fix this:

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:UEFI#Reset_SBAT_string_for_booting_to_old_shim_in_old_Leap_image

I found re-installing debian's grub easier, until next time perhaps...

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

OK Back on Debian, I removed the one package installed with pipx, which
was musicpy, then tried to install it with pip, but got this message
which actually tells me to use pipx. (There is no package python-musicpy).

pip install musicpy
error: externally-managed-environment

× This environment is externally managed
╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
install.

If you wish to install a non-Debian-packaged Python package,
create a virtual environment using python3 -m venv path/to/venv.
Then use path/to/venv/bin/python and path/to/venv/bin/pip. Make
sure you have python3-full installed.

If you wish to install a non-Debian packaged Python application,
it may be easiest to use pipx install xyz, which will manage a
virtual environment for you. Make sure you have pipx installed.

See /usr/share/doc/python3.11/README.venv for more information.

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 23:50 Richmond  > wrote:
>
> Richard mailto:rrosn...@gmail.com>> writes:
>
> > A packages documentation is always your best
> friend: https://pypi.org
> > /project/idle/
> >
>
> Yes it makes it look easy there, but:
>
> import idle
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File ".local/pipx/shared/lib/python3.11/site-packages/idle.py",
> line 4, in 
>     from layout import *
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'layout'
>
> That's what I'm talking about. You wildly mix commands together that
> don't go together. And whatever is off with your paths. Things of pipx
> installed packages should be in .local/bin and .local/shared/pipx. At
> least on Debian that's the default. No idea what you did.
>
>
I don't think your assessment is correct, as I have booted opensuse,
where I do not even have pipx installed and have not used it. I did
these commands:

1059  pip install musicpy
 1062  pip install idle

I got the layout error so:

 1065  pip install layout

cured the layout error but then I got a gui error

 1067  pip install gui

There is no such package.

.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/idle.py", line 26, in 
    gui.mainloop()
NameError: name 'gui' is not defined

Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was" (was: Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (last modified 20240501))

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 10:02:58AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > If you change subject
> > or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
> > accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.
> > 
> > For example: New question [WAS Old topic]
> 
> Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
> subject part from response subject. Perhaps Gnus may treat square brackets
> as well. I have no idea concerning other mailers.
> 

No - the square brackets are an example :)

Square brackets can be noticed, perhaps, and the effort to type them may
be worth the distinctiveness, but what I really wanted was to make the
distinction visually clear so that the reader would notice it..

I routinely type ammedments to the subject in square brackets and
add WAS in upper case so that this is immediately apparent in a long
email thread. Whatever your mailer does is fine but it needs to stand out
clearly. Similarly, whenever I reply to something on behalf of the 
Community Team, I add that in square brackets to show that it is
distinct.

New topic - brackets or parentheses (WAS: Debian-user Monthly FAQ)
might be appropriate here. So that email subjects don't go beyond 72
characters, you may always need to abbreviate the amended subject.

[WAS: WAS: WAS (previous subject)] would be too many levels of off-topic
discussion - but this discussion is still, just about, on topic.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amaca...@debian.org)



> Sorry for violating the rule. Curious users may test if their MUAs recognize
> "(was: ...)" in the subject and remove old part.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Help! secure boot is preventing boot of debian

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Richmond wrote:
> OK I got it booted and re-installed grub from debian. But I don't know
> why it happened, I haven't changed any keys or done anything except an
> opensuse update. I will ask the opensuse list

I remember to have seen discussions about newly installed shim adding
names of older shims or bootloaders to something called SBAT.
I find in my mailbox a mail with a link to
  https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1209985

About SBAT i found in the web:
  
https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/Secure-Boot-Advanced-Targeting.html
  https://github.com/rhboot/shim/blob/main/SBAT.md


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 2/6/24 11:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 10:02:58AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject. Perhaps Gnus may treat square brackets
as well. I have no idea concerning other mailers.


My despair and agony increase every time I hear about some new abomination
that people's mail user agents perform by default.

*face palms, shakes head*



I simply use single hyphen; for example
abomination - was Re: yeti another snowman


Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was"

[Bret Busby]

On 2/6/24 11:13, Bret Busby wrote:

On 2/6/24 11:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 10:02:58AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
subject part from response subject. Perhaps Gnus may treat square 
brackets

as well. I have no idea concerning other mailers.


My despair and agony increase every time I hear about some new 
abomination

that people's mail user agents perform by default.

*face palms, shakes head*



I simply use single hyphen; for example
abomination - was Re: yeti another snowman



or, more appropriately (because it is an abomni nation)

abomination - was Re: yeti another country of snowmen

...


Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Parenthesis or square brackets and "was" (was: Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (last modified 20240501))

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 10:02:58AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > If you change subject
> > or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
> > accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.
> > 
> > For example: New question [WAS Old topic]
> 
> Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:"
> subject part from response subject. Perhaps Gnus may treat square brackets
> as well. I have no idea concerning other mailers.

My despair and agony increase every time I hear about some new abomination
that people's mail user agents perform by default.

*face palms, shakes head*

Parenthesis or square brackets and "was" (was: Re: Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (last modified 20240501))

[Max Nikulin]

On 02/06/2024 02:59, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]


Are square brackets intentional here? E.g. thunderbird strips "(was:" 
subject part from response subject. Perhaps Gnus may treat square 
brackets as well. I have no idea concerning other mailers.


Sorry for violating the rule. Curious users may test if their MUAs 
recognize "(was: ...)" in the subject and remove old part.

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[DdB]

Am 01.06.2024 um 16:01 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
>> i get the output from ls, but then the thing is hanging indefinitely,
>> apparently not reaching the exit line. :(
> Your first while loop never terminates.  "while read ..." continues
> running until read returns a nonzero exit status, either due to an
> error or EOF.  Your coproc never returns EOF, so the "while read"
> loop just keeps waiting for the next line of output from ls.
> 
> If you're going to communicate with a long-running process that can
> return multiple lines of output per line of input, then you have
> three choices:
> 
>   1) Arrange for some way to communicate how many lines, or bytes,
>  of output are going to be given.
> 
>   2) Send a terminator line (or byte sequence) of some kind that
>  indicates "end of current data set".
> 
>   3) Give up and assume the end of the data set after a certain amount
>  of time has elapsed with no new output arriving.  (This is usually
>  not the best choice.)
> 
> These same design issues occur in any kind of network communication, too.
> Imagine an IMAP client or something, which holds open a network connection
> to its IMAP server.  The client asks for the body of an email message,
> but needs to keep the connection open afterward so that it can ask for
> more things later.  The server has to be able to send the message back
> without closing the connection at the end.  Therefore, the IMAP protocol
> needs some way to "encapsulate" each server response, so the client
> knows when it has received the full message.

WOW!
Just wow, Greg, thank you so much!

After receiving such a wonderful hint/explanation, i did verify it being
correct and got overwhelmed with good feelings, as it allows me to learn
and experiment some more, heading in the direction of possibly solving
my initial problem.

Will share my findings, once i made more progress...

With appreciation, respect, admiration and love.
DdB

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 23:50 Richmond  wrote:

> Richard  writes:
>
> > A packages documentation is always your best friend: https://pypi.org
> > /project/idle/
> >
>
> Yes it makes it look easy there, but:
>
> import idle
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File ".local/pipx/shared/lib/python3.11/site-packages/idle.py", line 4,
> in 
> from layout import *
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'layout'
>
That's what I'm talking about. You wildly mix commands together that don't
go together. And whatever is off with your paths. Things of pipx installed
packages should be in .local/bin and .local/shared/pipx. At least on Debian
that's the default. No idea what you did.

>
> > Also, python script isn't a necessarily a standalone executable. And
> > also, you shouldn't just wildly mix pipx commands with pip commands
> > if you don't know what you are doing. Either create a venv with
> > python3 -m venv or use pipx, not both. Once created, stick to these
> > separate paths. And read the documentation of pipx while you're at
> > it. Sure, venvs are easy to handle, as you can just delete them and
> > start from scratch, but mixing commands without knowing what one is
> > doing is just a recipe for desaster.
> >
>
> I don't know what I am doing for sure. But I did not wildly mix, I just
> kept trying things until I found something which worked. Most things
> didn't, and still don't.
>
You are, your last comment is more than proof enough.

You should just remove everything you installed with pipx, create a
separate venv - without using pipx! - and solely work inside it. And don't
touch pipx for anything that's not meant as a standalone CLI  program, like
yt-dlp, speedtest and the sorts. Maybe that way you can't do that much
wrong.

At this point this is hardly a Debian related topic. You should first learn
more about Python venvs and their package managers.

>

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> A packages documentation is always your best friend: https://pypi.org
> /project/idle/
>

Yes it makes it look easy there, but:

import idle
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File ".local/pipx/shared/lib/python3.11/site-packages/idle.py", line 4, in 

from layout import *
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'layout'



> Also, python script isn't a necessarily a standalone executable. And
> also, you shouldn't just wildly mix pipx commands with pip commands
> if you don't know what you are doing. Either create a venv with
> python3 -m venv or use pipx, not both. Once created, stick to these
> separate paths. And read the documentation of pipx while you're at
> it. Sure, venvs are easy to handle, as you can just delete them and
> start from scratch, but mixing commands without knowing what one is
> doing is just a recipe for desaster.
>

I don't know what I am doing for sure. But I did not wildly mix, I just
kept trying things until I found something which worked. Most things
didn't, and still don't.

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

A packages documentation is always your best friend:
https://pypi.org/project/idle/

Also, python script isn't a necessarily a standalone executable. And also,
you shouldn't just wildly mix pipx commands with pip commands if you don't
know what you are doing. Either create a venv with python3 -m venv or use
pipx, not both. Once created, stick to these separate paths. And read the
documentation of pipx while you're at it. Sure, venvs are easy to handle,
as you can just delete them and start from scratch, but mixing commands
without knowing what one is doing is just a recipe for desaster.

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 23:00 Richmond  wrote:

> Richard  writes:
>
> > Pretty much just what pipx does.
> >
>
> Well I don't know how.
>
> Now I need to run idle in my new environment. I have installed it
>
> .local/pipx/shared/bin/pip install idle
>
> and it is here:
>
> .local/pipx/shared/lib/python3.11/site-packages/idle.py
>
> but I don't know how to run it. I just get errors.
>
>

Re[2]: Question About Free File Transfering Apps

[Michael Grant]

Dan Ritter wrote:

The web browser technology called WebRTC does that quite well,
but for security reasons -- nobody wants a self-perpetuating
worm -- you need an intermediary device to introduce the two
participants but not to actually transfer the file.

And so there is snapdrop.net, which you can choose to trust or
you can run your own copy -- it's GPL3. Works between any two
devices that run modern web browsers, including iPhones,
Androids, Linux, Windows, Macs...

Cool, I played with this today.  So it seems like the website is called 
'pairdrop.net' that works by default with the android app.


Bit of a shame that it requires an external introducer site.  I read a 
bunch of sites, nothing seems to explicitly say that the file transfer 
is direct between one and the other and not through some sort of "bent 
pipe".  I'll tcpdump it at some point to convince myself.


I did not set up my own server (yet), though I read through the 
instructions.  Seems to be nodejs based and looks like a manual setup.  
I guess nobody has built a debian package yet...


There are bluetooth solutions between Linux and Android and
Windows, but Apple does not allow bluetooth file transfer from
or to IOS with any operating systems they don't control.

Did some research how to do this over bluetooth, apparently most android 
phones, certainly newer ones, you can pair the two phones and then use 
the share feature of one phone and choose bluetooth and share it.  Built 
into the OS.  Apparently works between phones and Windows.  No internet 
connection required, perfect.  Doesn't work between ios as you say.  
Learn something new every day!


Thanks for that!

Michael Grant

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> Pretty much just what pipx does.
>

Well I don't know how.

Now I need to run idle in my new environment. I have installed it

.local/pipx/shared/bin/pip install idle

and it is here:

.local/pipx/shared/lib/python3.11/site-packages/idle.py

but I don't know how to run it. I just get errors.

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

Pretty much just what pipx does.

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 22:00 Richmond  wrote:

>
> I got it working by doing:
>
> python3 -m venv .local/pipx/venvs/musicpy/
>
> .local/pipx/venvs/musicpy/bin/python3.11
>
> Then I was able to import musicpy from the python shell.
>
> How bewildering!
>
> Thanks.
>
>

Re: Question About Free File Transfering Apps

[Larry Martell]

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 2:24 AM gene heskett  wrote:
> Well, since I'm alone, my wife passed 3.5 years back, and was not
> computer literate, its my show. And sshfs Just Works. I use this machine
> as the src for my output for some 3d printers, although the 4 linuxcnc
> machines are largely standalone in that the gcode I run on them was all
> written by me on that machine.. I often have more than one login session
> to a given machine because that machine may also be its own buildbot.
> Every machine has access to the world, but its all hidden behind a
> dd-wrt running router doing the NAT. I don't have to fight with
> samba/cifs and its daily updates to keep it working, permissions are
> 100% linux, nor do I fool with nfs and its weekly updates that always
> break it.
>
> But age is playing a role too, I have short term memory problems.
> Perhaps because of my age, I'll be 90 in October if I don't fall over first.
>
> The only dis to ssh and friends has been the local key files and keeping
> them up to date. That's very minor, its probably been a year since a new
> install on one of my pi clones had me hunting down an aging key file.
> Nothing like this broken bookworm install, its far more annoyance than
> any of the other problems. I'll miss morning roll call, and disappear
> soon enough and then it will be a bit more peaceful here.
>
> In the meantime, everybody take care and stay well.  You are my
> connection to the rest of the world.

Gene, you are an inspiration to me. I hope that I am half as lucid as
you when I am 90. But when you miss morning roll call how will we
know?

Re: Question About Free File Transfering Apps

[gene heskett]

On 6/1/24 06:07, Michael Grant wrote:
I use sshfs, works great to let me drop files on my server from my 
desktop. But I wouldn't call that "file sharing".  I probably would call 
that a "network disk" or "remote mount".


There's probably some formal definition out there, but when I think of 
file sharing, I think of someone proffering up a single file (or folder) 
and sharing it point-to-point with one or some small group of people.


I have long been plagued by the problem if sitting in a room or on a 
boat with someone, 2 devices right next to one another, and no trivially 
easy way to send a file from one device to the other without say first 
uploading it to some mutual third party (e.g. whatsapp).


sshfs isn't going to let you share files between say 2 phones, at least, 
not very easily if at all.


By recommendation further up in this thread, I tried Google's Quick 
Share between my wife's phone and my phone.  Followed all the 
instructions, did not work.  Followed all the troubleshooting 
instructions.  Nope, my device doesn't appear on her phone when I share, 
and neither the other way around.  Searched the web, found a ton of 
people with same issue.  It's DoA I'm afraid.


Between family members, we have in the past shared files using a 
synology box and their Drive app.  It works just like Dropbox except 
file is on your own infra.  It's not open source though and I don't know 
how tied it actually is to Synology's infra.  One certainly needs to be 
on the net to use it.


To this day, I have yet ever to see an easy way to share a file between 
2 devices without full internet connectivity, except by say getting one 
to run an ftp or ssh server and ftp or ssh'ing over the file between 
local ip addrs (e.g. 192.168.x.y).  I'd love to know some well know 
good, not-evil, open source app that runs on all the platforms that I 
could tell people to install to send them a file without using the 
internet.  I can't really see any technical reason such an thing 
couldn't work, say over bluetooth or local IPs and maybe it does exist, 
I've just never run across such a thing.  The key word here is EASY.  I 
can't be hacking someone's phone for an hour just to transfer them a file.


Michael Grant


The keyword with a "phone" as you refer to that handheld computer, is 
locked in service. Just one of the reasons I only have an expired 
wallmart flip phone that hasn't been renewed in 4 or 5 years. If I'm 
going on a long trip where a vehicle problem might need a fone to yell 
for help, I'll go see what wally has today.  Until then its a nuisance, 
with every scammer on the planet calling you up at dinner time or in the 
middle of taking care of your horizontal homework. Amazons BIG red 
button has blocked 255 such scammers so far.


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[David Christensen]

On 6/1/24 00:20, DdB wrote:

Hello,

for years have i been using a self-made backup script, that did mount a
drive via USB, performed all kinds of plausibility checks, before
actually backing up incrementally. Finally verifying success and logging
the activities while kicking the ISB drive out.

Since a few months, i do have a real backup server instead, connecting
to it via ssh i was able to have 2 terminals open and back up manually.
Last time, i introduced a mistake by accident and since, i am trying to
automate the whole thing once again, but that is difficult, as the load
on the net is huge, mbuffer is useful in that regard. So i was intending
to have just one script for all the operations using coproc to
coordinate the 2 servers.

But weird things are going on, i cant reliably communicate between host
and backup server, at least not automatically.

Searching the web, i found:
https://github.com/reconquest/coproc.bash/blob/master/REFERENCE.md
But i was unable to get this to work, which seems to indicate, that i am
misunderstanding something.
The only success i had was to "talk" to a chess engine in a coprocess,
which did go well. But neither bash nor ssh are cooperating, i may have
timing issues with the pipes or some other side effects.

How can i describe? For example if i start this:

#!/bin/bash -e

coproc { bash; }
exec 5<&${COPROC[0]} 6>&${COPROC[1]}
fd=5

echo "ls" >&6
while IFS= read -ru $fd line
do
 printf '%s\n' "$line"
done

printf "%s\n" "sleep 3;exit" >&6
while IFS= read -ru $fd line
do
 printf '%s\n' "$line"
done

exec 5<&- 6>&-

wait
echo waited, done


i get the output from ls, but then the thing is hanging indefinitely,
apparently not reaching the exit line. :(

Anyone who can share his experience to advance my experimenting?
DdB




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem


Please define the root problem you are trying to solve.


David

Re: Help! secure boot is preventing boot of debian

[Richmond]

Marco Moock  writes:

> Am 01.06.2024 um 20:01:43 Uhr schrieb Richmond:
>
>> Should I disable secure boot temporarily? will that allow booting?
>
> That should allow booting it.
>
> Have you changed anything at the keys in the EFI (maybe UEFI
> firmware update)?

OK I got it booted and re-installed grub from debian. But I don't know
why it happened, I haven't changed any keys or done anything except an
opensuse update. I will ask the opensuse list

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> That's the point of venv's. pipx runpip should do the trick. Or the
> classic way: source path/to/venv/bin/activate. That way you activate
> the position virtual environment (venv) created in that directory
> with all packages installed in that venv.
>

I got it working by doing:

python3 -m venv .local/pipx/venvs/musicpy/

.local/pipx/venvs/musicpy/bin/python3.11

Then I was able to import musicpy from the python shell.

How bewildering!

Thanks.

Monthly FAQ for Debian-user mailing list (last modified 20240501)

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I'm not using Debian but ...


* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are 

Re: Help! secure boot is preventing boot of debian

[Marco Moock]

Am 01.06.2024 um 20:01:43 Uhr schrieb Richmond:

> Should I disable secure boot temporarily? will that allow booting?

That should allow booting it.

Have you changed anything at the keys in the EFI (maybe UEFI
firmware update)?

-- 
Gruß
Marco

Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1717264903mu...@cartoonies.org

Help! secure boot is preventing boot of debian

[Richmond]

I have a PC with two operating systems installed, Debian, and Opensuse.
Both are installed with Secure Boot. Each has its own grub installation.
Normally I boot debian, and if I want to boot opensuse I select UEFI
settings from the main menu and select opensuse from there which
launches the opensuse grub. Today I booted opensuse, and did an update
which included an update to grub. Now I cannot boot debian as it says
bad shim or bad signature.

Each grub menu has the alternate O.S. on it, but booting debian from the
opensuse grub menu did not work either.

Should I disable secure boot temporarily? will that allow booting?

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

That's the point of venv's. pipx runpip should do the trick. Or the classic
way: source path/to/venv/bin/activate. That way you activate the position
virtual environment (venv) created in that directory with all packages
installed in that venv.

Richard

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 19:10 Richmond  wrote:

> I guess I have to tell python where to look?
>
>

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> Looking at the package, no wonder it fails. musicpy doesn't contain
> anything that can be executed. So pipx run can't work for obvious
> reasons. You'll have to install it with pipx install and use it in a
> python script.
>
> https://pypi.org/project/musicpy/
>

OK so I have found:

./.local/pipx/venvs/musicpy/lib/python3.11/site-packages/musicpy/musicpy.py

But:

 python3.11
Python 3.11.2 (main, Mar 13 2023, 12:18:29) [GCC 12.2.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import musicpy
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'musicpy'

I guess I have to tell python where to look?

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

Looking at the package, no wonder it fails. musicpy doesn't contain
anything that can be executed. So pipx run can't work for obvious reasons.
You'll have to install it with pipx install and use it in a python script.

https://pypi.org/project/musicpy/

Richard

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 18:40 Richmond  wrote:

> Richard  writes:
>
> > If you haven't closed the terminal window/logged out, you need to run
> > source .bashrc. Running pipx ensurepath should have said something
> > like that.
>
> Yes, I did this:
> >
> > (logged out and in to get updated PATH)
>
>

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

Richard  writes:

> If you haven't closed the terminal window/logged out, you need to run
> source .bashrc. Running pipx ensurepath should have said something
> like that.

Yes, I did this:
>
> (logged out and in to get updated PATH)

Re: Installing a python package with pipx

[Richard]

If you haven't closed the terminal window/logged out, you need to run
source .bashrc. Running pipx ensurepath should have said something like
that.

Richard

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024, 18:10 Richmond  wrote:

> I have been trying to install this:
>
> https://pypi.org/project/musicpy/#description
>
> with not much success.
>
> I have done these:
>
> sudo aptitude install pip
> sudo aptitude install pipx
> pipx ensurepath
> pipx install --include-deps musicpy
>
> (logged out and in to get updated PATH)
>
>  pipx run musicpy
> 'musicpy' executable script not found in package 'musicpy'.
> Available executable scripts:
>
> I think it is installed, but how do I run it?
>
>

Installing a python package with pipx

[Richmond]

I have been trying to install this:

https://pypi.org/project/musicpy/#description

with not much success.

I have done these:

sudo aptitude install pip
sudo aptitude install pipx
pipx ensurepath
pipx install --include-deps musicpy

(logged out and in to get updated PATH)

 pipx run musicpy
'musicpy' executable script not found in package 'musicpy'.
Available executable scripts:

I think it is installed, but how do I run it?

Re: tree with dir size

[Lee]

On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 11:18 PM Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 09:35:59PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > If a coloured ] is unimportant, I suppose you could use:
> >
> >   tree --du -Fh whatever | grep --color '][[:space:]][[:space:]].*/$'
>
> You don't need to count spaces.  Just '].*/$' would suffice.  We already
> know we want to start with the first ] character on the line, no matter
> how many spaces follow it.
>
> I really question the usefulness of colorizing the directory names,
> but since we're already this far down the rabbit hole, we might as
> well light some dynamite to make the hole deeper.  I'm sure it's safe!
>
> We're using GNU grep for coloring, so we can also use its PCRE syntax
> to do "lookbehind" voodoo:
>
> tree --du -Fh /usr/local | grep --color -P '(?<=]).*/$'
>
> which means "start matching after a ] but don't include the ] in the
> match".

Or use  '\K' to cause previously matched characters to not be included
in the match:

   tree --du -Fah . | grep --color -P '[^]]*]  \K.*/$'

(which required entirely too much RTFMing to learn about '\K')

Regards,
Lee

Re: Question About Free File Transfering Apps

[Joe]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2024 10:06:43 +
"Michael Grant"  wrote:


> 
> To this day, I have yet ever to see an easy way to share a file
> between 2 devices without full internet connectivity, except by say
> getting one to run an ftp or ssh server and ftp or ssh'ing over the
> file between local ip addrs (e.g. 192.168.x.y).  I'd love to know
> some well know good, not-evil, open source app that runs on all the
> platforms that I could tell people to install to send them a file
> without using the internet.  I can't really see any technical reason
> such an thing couldn't work, say over bluetooth or local IPs and
> maybe it does exist, I've just never run across such a thing.  The
> key word here is EASY.  I can't be hacking someone's phone for an
> hour just to transfer them a file.
> 
> Michael Grant
> 

a. I know nothing about iOS
b. I don't know if this will help

I have an Android phone. If I plug its micro USB charge/data connection
into my desktop's USB port, two entries appear on 'Device' in Thunar.
Pictures (only) can be transferred.

If I pull down the Android status menu and select the USB entry, then
tap for more options, then select file transfer. one of the Device
entries disappears and the other shows various directories. Files
of other kinds can be transferred to and from my workstation's
directories by copy and paste, and presumably by drag and drop. No
additional software is required on the phone.

Two Android devices plugged into something portable, such as a netbook
or Raspberry Pi could presumably transfer files fairly easily. I've
never needed to do it, so I haven't actually tried it between mobiles,
but I use one phone this way to transfer files to and from my network,
which is quicker than emailing them. I don't know what the earliest
version of Android with this ability is. Update: Google says Android 9.
There is a Mac app to do it, Windows and Linux machines including
Chromebook do it natively.

Maybe more ideas here:
https://www.grover.com/blog/en/7-ways-android-data-transfer
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph3ea029318/17.0/ios/17.0


-- 
Joe

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Jun 01, 2024 at 09:20:59AM +0200, DdB wrote:
> > #!/bin/bash -e
> > 
> > coproc { bash; }
> > exec 5<&${COPROC[0]} 6>&${COPROC[1]}
> > fd=5
> > 
> > echo "ls" >&6
> > while IFS= read -ru $fd line
> > do
> > printf '%s\n' "$line"
> > done
> > 
> > printf "%s\n" "sleep 3;exit" >&6
> > while IFS= read -ru $fd line
> > do
> > printf '%s\n' "$line"
> > done
> > 
> > exec 5<&- 6>&-
> > 
> > wait
> > echo waited, done
> 
> i get the output from ls, but then the thing is hanging indefinitely,
> apparently not reaching the exit line. :(

Your first while loop never terminates.  "while read ..." continues
running until read returns a nonzero exit status, either due to an
error or EOF.  Your coproc never returns EOF, so the "while read"
loop just keeps waiting for the next line of output from ls.

If you're going to communicate with a long-running process that can
return multiple lines of output per line of input, then you have
three choices:

  1) Arrange for some way to communicate how many lines, or bytes,
 of output are going to be given.

  2) Send a terminator line (or byte sequence) of some kind that
 indicates "end of current data set".

  3) Give up and assume the end of the data set after a certain amount
 of time has elapsed with no new output arriving.  (This is usually
 not the best choice.)

These same design issues occur in any kind of network communication, too.
Imagine an IMAP client or something, which holds open a network connection
to its IMAP server.  The client asks for the body of an email message,
but needs to keep the connection open afterward so that it can ask for
more things later.  The server has to be able to send the message back
without closing the connection at the end.  Therefore, the IMAP protocol
needs some way to "encapsulate" each server response, so the client
knows when it has received the full message.